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Is Project Management Killing Good Products, Teams and Software? (techbeacon.com)

New submitter mikeatTB writes: "For software development, no significant developer activity is predictable or repetitive; if it were, the developers would have automated it already," writes Steven A. Lowe, Principal Consultant Developer at ThoughtWorks, via TechBeacon. "In addition, learning is essentially a nonlinear process; it involves trying things that don't work in order to discover what does work. You might see linear progress for a while, but you don't know what you don't know, so there will be apparent setbacks. It is from these setbacks that one learns the truth about the system -- what is really needed to make it work, to make it usable, and to make a difference for the users and the business. In other words, the dirty little secret of software development is that projects don't really exist. And they're killing our products, teams, and software." Lowe continues: "Projects, with respect to software development, are imaginary boxes drawn around scope and time in an attempt to 'manage' things. This tendency is understandable, given the long fascination with so-called scientific management (a.k.a. Taylorism, a.k.a. Theory X), but these imaginary boxes do not reduce underlying complexity. On the contrary, they add unnecessary complexity and friction and invite a counterproductive temptation to focus on the box instead of the problem or product. This misplaced emphasis leads to some harmful delusions: Conformance to schedule is the same thing as success; Estimation accuracy is possible and desirable enough to measure and optimize for; The plan is perfect and guarantees success; The cost of forming and dissolving teams is zero; The cost of functional silo hand-offs is zero; The bigger and more comprehensive the plan, the better; Predictability and efficiency are paramount."

176 comments

  1. Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...how long until we automate supervisors and management?

    1. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Some supervision is required, but I know the project I'm working on right now would be better off if we fired everyone between Sr. Director and SVP (half the Directors too!).

    2. Re: Well... by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Coordination is required. Cutting the red tape is required. Supervision is not.

      Management should finally find out that they're a supporting role to those that produce instead of going on a micromanaging power trip.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    3. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      My best (former) manager (I was developing Oracle software for a State agency) said that his number one job was to be an umbrella to keep the shit from falling on us and distracting us

      When I became a software development manager, I saw my number one job as keeping the developers from being drug off into endless project meetings and being kept away from doing their work.

      SCRUM was my favorite tool, with the daily standup and pre/post sprints meetings were my source for all information to deliver back to the project manager(s).

      Project management can be applied to software development, BUT clueless fucking PM's who think that their #1 job is keeping everybody scheduled for project status meetings are going to blow the whole deal.

    4. Re: Well... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      My best (former) manager (I was developing Oracle software for a State agency) said that his number one job was to be an umbrella to keep the shit from falling on us and distracting us

      I think he's now working for us, these words sound quite familiar.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Treat him well, he is a gentle giant

    6. Re: Well... by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > Coordination is required. Cutting the red tape is required. Supervision is not.

      A certain amount of supervision can be critical. I recently spent long chat with a developer walking through their need for exploring some complex issues that existed only in their theories, not in practice, and having to take away the hardware resources they wanted to use for research of why it didn't fail in the real world.

    7. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I preferred the version of one of my friends who made his way up to director. Your job as a manager is to take the shit and make the call.

        That's it, your are there to shield your team from everything happening above them, and when those above them need an organizational call to be made then you are the one to do it and either reap the rewards or face the backlash. That is your entire job. So when managers fail to do either of those they become worthless and are just impediments

    8. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the real truth of it: the best managers are secretaries who sooth over bruised egos when the developers fight while handling the bulk of the client interaction, scheduling meetings, and taking calls (i.e. typical secretary stuff, minus the lip.)

    9. Re: Well... by DeSigna · · Score: 5, Interesting

      My favourite manager (now retired) had the same philosophy. You'll find a similar theme amongst most people's favourite bosses.

      He was an ex-Army (AU) warrant officer and wouldn't hesitate to rip you up like a drill sergeant if it was your fault, but equally wouldn't hesitate to throw it back upstairs if it were a problem with senior management or sales. If any customers were being unreasonable with his engineers, he'd practically teleport to site, sit everyone down, look the customer in the eye and calmly ask them what their business case was for being difficult with a vendor.

      He also had a mostly hands-off PM style, he'd just bump into people during breaks at random points, ask a couple of questions, move on. Ask him where the pieces of project were at and he could list them off like a human Gantt chart just based on those queries. But woe betide you if you didn't inform him of any looming problems before they became serious, or if you tried to push blame away. If you came to him with a blunt statement along the lines of "I fucked up, here's the issue, I think this could solve it", he'd bend over backwards to get it sorted.

      I've since tried to model my own management style after his - definitely not as successfully.

    10. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes but if there was more supervision and PM at Blizzard they wouldn't release mediocre games that take a decade to make.

    11. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Management should finally find out that they're a supporting role to those that produce instead of going on a micromanaging power trip."

      Yeah good luck, sadly the ones on the power trips end up in management and the ones that get their that aren't get driven out by the power seekers.. sad reality in the corporate world..

      The other joke is agile, it is anything but, they just implement it like e religion pile on huge amounts of time wasting, scrum-masters blah blah and far less gets done and a lot more staff need to be employed...

    12. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Love this.

    13. Re:Well... by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

      That's easy. There is a perfect model for them already. It's called a bit bucket.

    14. Re: Well... by Evtim · · Score: 1

      A million times this! I had a boss like that for 5 years - what a bliss! At a certain moment many employees started leaving the company and one of them asked us (my team) "Why are you still here?". We looked at each other and said in one voice "Because of our boss and the excellent atmosphere in the team".

      Leaders eat first and get the best mate but when the lion jumps the fence they meet it head on....or that's how it was for most of human history until we invented modern economy. Real leaders do not throw the little guy under the bus when the going gets tough, they face the music. Since the CEO of my present employer makes per year enough for 2 comfortable lifetimes (!?) I do not see why when a crisis hits (which is 90 % of the cases due to poor management anyway) we get fired...

    15. Re: Well... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Agile development can be quite useful. Sadly, most project managers confuse it with not having to do their work and think "agile" means "the programmers have to change the project daily when I come up with new shit I didn't think about before".

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    16. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More people need to be willing to tell PMs to fuck off with their meeting. Know who benefits from 50 people going in a circle telling status ? The PM. Know who suffers ? The 49 people not giving their status.

      If the PM wants each person's status, the PM needs to do the work and ask each person. I leave those 50 person meetings immediately every time.

    17. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The thing is that statement is true for every kind of management role, first and foremost a manager provides a human interface that connects upper management to lowly grunts but that is not all, a good manager can speak both languages (the business language and the technical language) and he has a good understanding of business objecives and technical issues.

    18. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, the good old No True Scotsman.

    19. Re: Well... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What you're saying is people who don't understand a problem need their hands held?

  2. Eisenhower by Strider- · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To quote Dwight D. Eisenhower, "In preparing for battle, I have always found that plans are useless but planning is indispensable."

    If you go into a major project without some sort of project management, it's not going to end well. However, the management of the project needs to be flexible enough to adapt to the changing environment. Decent project management will see when things are under resourced, and help to fill in those gaps (if possible), and should keep the project going in the right direction.

    --
    ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    1. Re:Eisenhower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you have no plan, you have no idea where to go and when you get there. I would think that any major project should have a good understanding of the problem(s) to solve and what solutions will look like. If it's a scientific project, the science, literature base and understanding of the market should be known. If it's an engineering project, things like required safety and regulatory issues, hardware requirements/limitations and rough costs should be known. This should cover pretty much everything being done outside of academia.

      Not saying waterfall is the way to go, but use cases and a bit of "xxx should do yay" isn't that much to ask for. And as some things take more than a week or two to spec out or implement, some kind of damping on top of the scrum meetings should help.

    2. Re:Eisenhower by Zaelath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Decent project management will see when things are under resourced, and help to fill in those gaps (if possible), and should keep the project going in the right direction.

      That's (probably) more mythical man month PM bullshit right there.

      Generally in a software project "under-resourced" means the milestones aren't being reached, which either means you have bad milestones, bad requirements, or bad coders.

      Adding another 5 coders to part of the project doesn't make it go faster if the first one has written a pile of garbage and it needs to be unpicked or more likely the new coders are rubbish and no one wanted them on their project, so they're available to "help".

      Most PMs I've met have been great people with great PM skills, and no clue if what a coder is telling them is accurate. I'm sure there's some counter-example with great code assessment skills, but that doesn't make them representative of the class.

    3. Re:Eisenhower by Strider- · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Generally in a software project "under-resourced" means the milestones aren't being reached, which either means you have bad milestones, bad requirements, or bad coders.

      I guess I didn't make myself sufficiently clear, and you hit the nail on the head. By resources I was meaning not just people, but equipment, tools, requirements, knowledge, plans, or is it just bad milestones to begin with. Adding more people to a failing project is a recipe to make it fail faster, the solution is to figure out what's going on early so the problems can be resolved.

      --
      ...si hoc legere nimium eruditionis habes...
    4. Re:Eisenhower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the milestones aren't being reached

      The whole premise of TFA is "time taken to reach milestones is meaningless", because software is a non-repetitive activity whose steps can't be completely/sufficiently predicted at planning time.

      Of course, if you have a cookie-cutter project which is something you've done before with a few changes, you can predict the time taken to reach milestones, because your team has done it before.

    5. Re:Eisenhower by Zaelath · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Ah, fair enough. I've seen at least one manager kill a project at birth since it was not possible to do, but that's pretty rare.

      Also, I'd forgotten the absolute worst PM trend; project is going too slowly, we need a daily meeting that we'll pretend is 15 minutes, but is actually an hour and probably subtracts 2 from the day with prep and recovery.

    6. Re:Eisenhower by Kiuas · · Score: 2

      Generally in a software project "under-resourced" means the milestones aren't being reached, which either means you have bad milestones, bad requirements, or bad coders.

      These are all possible. It's also possible that requirements have been changed (because it has come to light that the original ones are bad). In fact the larger the scope of the project is, the more likely it is that the original plan is not comprehensive and things will come up during development that require the tweaking of the requirements/milestones.

      Adding another 5 coders to part of the project doesn't make it go faster if the first one has written a pile of garbage and it needs to be unpicked or more likely the new coders are rubbish and no one wanted them on their project, so they're available to "help".

      100 % agreed but again, it may be the case that the requirements/milestones have been changed and in that case adding more competent coders may be helpful depending on the circumstances and the nature of the changes. .

      Most PMs I've met have been great people with great PM skills, and no clue if what a coder is telling them is accurate. I'm sure there's some counter-example with great code assessment skills, but that doesn't make them representative of the class.

      As a PM myself I can say I'm not an exception. While I'm no stranger to reading code, assessing it accurately is beyond my current skillset. But the thing is that I do recognise this, which is why I do not even attempt to do it myself, but rather if need be I show the code to a senior dev that I know knows his shit and and ask for his opinion, which is how it should be done unless the person leading the project has personal experience with said language(s).

      I am an expert, I'm not, nor will I ever be the expert who can verify everything by himself. I've met a few older PMs who seem to think they're the latter but in reality no-one knows everything and the people who think they do usually make the worst managers, as they're overconfident in their abilities and end up making bad calls especially under stress when pressed for answers and results.

      Rather than making educated guesses, it's really better to say 'I don't know, but I will find out'.

      --
      "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
    7. Re:Eisenhower by Entrope · · Score: 2

      Of course, if you have a cookie-cutter project which is something you've done before with a few changes, you can predict the time taken to reach milestones, because your team has done it before.

      That's silly. Depending on the size of the project and how good the team is at developing a work breakdown (decomposing big tasks into smaller, but still well-defined, ones), more than 50% and probably more than 75% of any project will look familiar. You may be developing a new web service, but if you've done NoSQL or RPC or whatever before, you usually have a pretty good idea how long it takes to bring up a small/medium/large instance of NoSQL/RPC/whatever, even though the application-specific details will be new.

      If that number is less than 50%, it should be a major red flag for upper management, because the team doesn't have enough experience to make a plan that they can hope to execute. The best hope is to go off, do trials to understand the kinds of problems you'll run into, and then make a plan. If you can break the work into small enough chunks that 75% of the effort looks reasonably familiar, then you have also identified the high-risk areas, and those are the ones where management needs to pay more attention to progress.

      You don't have to go full Team Software Process -- where the target is usually to plan with a work breakdown where the leaf tasks take no more than 8 hours -- to get most of the benefit of the approach.

    8. Re:Eisenhower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At major software companies, most management rises out of the ranks of project managers. Project managers are non-technical, which has a whole range of long term effects on the whole prospect of development. The ones who got lucky and had good (completable, high impact) projects and a team who could do them then have whatever their management-style was vindicated. They get career momentum, and with the validation of their first project feel justified in inflicting it on every team from then on. Odds are it never works again, because it was a fluke the first time, but they don['t have the technical background or experience to even recognize the real reasons for that first success (the team, the project, the environment both were in). There's no mechanism to correct this.

    9. Re:Eisenhower by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      Take time to plan. Our rule of thumbi the organization is that you ought to have a general idea of how long a project ought to take, two weeks or three months or five years, and then you ought to spend about 10 percent of that time planning.

    10. Re:Eisenhower by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      "Let's all sit down for this standup because it will take too long. Wait......you want to change the name from standup? Why?"

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    11. Re:Eisenhower by tlhIngan · · Score: 2

      Also, I'd forgotten the absolute worst PM trend; project is going too slowly, we need a daily meeting that we'll pretend is 15 minutes, but is actually an hour and probably subtracts 2 from the day with prep and recovery.

      No, the absolute worst is the all hands status meeting. I had one PM do that every Friday. Everyone who worked for him had to attend (we were a small company, so it was about 20+ people from every department). (!!! ALERT !!!! Useless meeting sign #1 - More people are attending than necessary).

      It started at 8:30AM. It never ended before 1PM. Of course, he would always do the production and QA departments first, because "they were important and had lots of important work to do". so they'd be in at 8:30 and out at 9:30. And hell be if you wanted out of the meeting room.

      It didn't take long before I regarded Fridays as write-offs and started padding my estimates by 25% to make up for the lost Friday. You'd get in, and I'd just surf /. until the meeting started, then at the end, you'd leave for lunch. Get back and you'd just surf other sites until quitting time - after a multi-hour meeting, you really are so worn out you aren't getting anything done.

      Heck, staying awake was a challenge.

      Thankfully, that PM only stayed for maybe 6 months before we had a bunch of layoffs.

    12. Re:Eisenhower by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Exactly.

      And while the instantiated steps may vary- the process and template of the steps is useful.

      Project management prevents you from being blindsided by a late delivery. With good project management, regular builds, and unit testing, you'll know if a problem is developing.

      One tip as a retired PM and manager of 15 developers.

      Do the risky/new stuff first. Prove it works before you do $50 million worth of 'easy" work and then find out the foundation of the entire application won't work.

      The worst case I saw of this was a failed SAP installation that cost over one billion dollars.

      While they project managed the hell out of it, they started easy coding before proving a couple basic systems would work under the proposed loads. They did not. The entire project failed.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    13. Re:Eisenhower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thing is, on many projects I worked on, there was a high turnover rate and bad or no documentation. New devs didn't receive any real formation on how the projects worked, from a technical or functional point of view. Projects were also big, so you often had to work on parts you never touched before.

      But most often than not, PMs were braindead enough to not understand that I can't produce an accurate estimate of how much time it would took me to develop new functionalities without taking some time to investigate the code and insisted that I spent no more than an hour estimating requests...

      There are two kinds of PM: shit umbrellas, and shit funnels.

    14. Re:Eisenhower by Drethon · · Score: 2

      Many of the projects I work on would do great with extra people. Work where we have thousands of hours needed to develop sufficient testing for certification of the software. A vast majority of these tests are independent enough that you could throw a separate expert at each test and get them done in no time at all.

      The problem that management fails to grasp is a smart person who has worked on similar projects is not an expert at this particular project. When we throw a bunch of new people at it, the bottlenecks are inevitably a) the hardware required to run the tests and more importantly b) the systems people who actually understand what the software should be doing (not what it is doing) and were never given enough time to actually document this thoroughly enough to make it easily understandable enough for testers.

      This all seems to fall into another software discussion on /. just a bit ago where people were lamenting software projects did not spend enough money in the short term to make a project successful in the long term. A few extra dollars in defining the system can save 100x that over the life of the project.

    15. Re: Eisenhower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think a lot of that is simple pay scale. All the PM jobs I've looked at are almost 50% pay cut from product mgt or presales work. And we can't even get qualified technical people at the higher pay scales.

    16. Re:Eisenhower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think what he was saying is that once you get on the battlefield, the enemy is not going to do as you planned, so the plan itself is useless. But while making the plan, you make yourself familiar with the terrain, good places for cover, roads that can be used to resupply, etc. And that knowledge has very high value when you need to make quick decisions to counter enemy movements.

      Translated to software development, this would be something like your plan is not going to survive the first time the customer changes their opinion on what they actually want, but while drawing up the plan the project manager (if he's any good) learns what's possible, what's not, what would take years, where the pitfalls and risks are, etc. So that when he's at that meeting where the customer changes his mind, rather than promising ten times as much work for the same price, he can say "look, this part we can do no problem. As for this part here, we can do it this way and give you 90% of the functionality for the same price, or we can go all the way and give you everything you want, but then the price will be higher and the deadlines will have to be moved".

    17. Re:Eisenhower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Baloney. Thousands of products were made without project management.

    18. Re:Eisenhower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My manager has a background as a mechanical engineer for almost two decades. He's used to having well defined specs and is very much NOT a "yes man". He can't protect us from everything we need get told to do because the CTO or a senior VP of our dept tells us we have to do something, but he will voice his outrage. He likes telling us what needs to get done, lets us break it up, for the most part lets us decide who gets to do what, likes to abstractly understand our plan, and likes to be kept abreast of how we think we're progressing and if anything is slowing us down so he can help "block" for us.

      One of the first things he told us when he came on is he's there to enable us, protect us, believes we need to buy into whatever we're doing, and has seen many projects fail do to being only technically correct.

    19. Re:Eisenhower by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Depends upon what project management is, it's not the same thing everywhere. Ie, where I am now the project manager can do nothing whatsoever about getting more people to work on something. However they do keeping the monkeys focused in the same direction. They have to deal with factory shutdowns, supply chain issues, software delays, and so forth. They have to plan that when the parts arrive that someone will be ready to make use of them shortly, that the schedules get updated when there's a hiccup down the line, and that the price is kept within reason. Sometimes these are the only managers who get to see the entire scope of a project, from first schematic to the artwork put on the packaging to the training of the support personnel. The problem is that the scope is so big that it's easy to get someone who just is not very good at it.

  3. Been sayin' this for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The "smart" people tell me I'm wrong. Then they get sacked, go on to higher paying jobs and are replaced with "smarter" people who tell me I'm wrong. Then they get sacked and go to higher paying jobs while I just solidly churn out product but get my pay cut because they spent their payroll budget paying for these high end managers.

    1. Re:Been sayin' this for years by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      And this is what's wrong. Most of those managers could easily be replaced by a Magic-8-ball.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Been sayin' this for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you think you're the one who is "smart", but you're still slaving away at the same job and accepting pay cuts?

  4. It is not just that, it is mixing "PM"s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The worst thing that execs do that can kill a company, much less a good product is confusing Project Management with Product Management. One is a trumped up secretary for a team, the other is a leader making critical feature decisions. Very few Project Managers have skills, experience, or even capabilities necessary to be a Product Manager. Any company with a clue is getting rid of Project Management.

  5. Fred by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    said: adding manpower to a late software project makes it later.

    1. Re:Fred by bobbied · · Score: 2

      Usually... The goal is to avoid getting "management to help" you with your project, because their favorite tool for a late project is to throw resources at it and ask you for time wasting progress reports.

      Attention, All, Attention. Because this project is behind schedule we will be requiring hourly status reports, unless status improves!

      Fredrick Brooks was right.... There is no silver bullet (unless you bring your own from home).

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Fred by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      and ask you for time wasting progress reports.
      Those come automatically out of Jira or what ever Issue tracker you are using.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  6. 3 things that make project management hell by nimbius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. project managers that graduated from the school of flagellation. the ones that think assigning a firm date to every goal is the only way to ensure it gets completed, and are willing to waterboard you for not adhering to the holy calendar. some of what we do in systems engineering -- like deprecating old systems or rolling out your cloud provided buzzgasm solution -- is highly technical. if you're not willing to draw diagrams or at least document how and why we arrived at some of these goals, youre just another manager.

    2. project managers that ignore dependencies. sometimes other teams need to get involved to accomplish a given task or objective and if youre not willing to make the call, then who is? securing time from the beleaguered network guy, the storage zombies, or the NOC is technically under your purvey. if we make it all the way to the calendars release date and you havent done the needful when it comes to taking to other teams and understanding the business structure, then we can hardly be blamed.

    3. companies that insist on contract-based project managers. they arent around long enough to learn the business or the systems in place, so they have very little incentive to participate fully in the project lifecycle. these shitlords get away with floating from company to company and doing very little at all.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:3 things that make project management hell by swb · · Score: 1

      I'd add a couple of more.

      Project managers that don't understand the details of what they're managing, but want to manage the details. We're on our second project manager in about 4 years and she's great with clients and very personable but she doesn't know anything about the technology we implement.

      So when a project has complications and I explain them to here, I can either waste my breath explaining the details of the problem and the details of the underlying technology and why the problem is a problem, or I can just tell her there's a problem. Neither one really helps us.

      The other one I would add is layering in too much project management process, too many conference calls, too much forced communication. I have been on a project kickoff call with a client where we literally spent 20 minutes discussing that I would be working on a daily basis with the client and then have her ask if the client wanted daily conference call updates. Most of the time the client says they're not necessary but sometimes they agree to it without realizing it (and then stop after the 2nd time) and I always log that time towards overhead.

  7. Yes. by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    Yes.

  8. Does nobody read anymore? by bobbied · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The Mythical Man-Month" by Fred Brooks.

    This should be required reading once a year for ALL direct and indirect management of any engineering or software development team.

    Again with the "Oh, Look at what I found, managing complex tasks is hard!" How many times will we be blessed with the same insight that Mr. Brooks put on paper way back in the 1970's? My guess is "just once more!"

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    1. Re:Does nobody read anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People should also read the Project Management Body of Knowledge and realize all the complaints above are bunk if PMs use modern best-practices and people under their purview take the time to understand modern methodologies.

    2. Re:Does nobody read anymore? by bobbied · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I see that AC hasn't actually taken the time to read the book I suggest...

      There are plenty of working methodologies for project management, some even work... (smile) ... Brooks doesn't prescribe any specific method of project management, he only describes what to watch out for and why the problem isn't as easy as it first seems, why there is no "silver bullet" to be had. The issues with most PM techniques and technical development processes remains the same as Brooks describes, even though we've changed the names and technologies involved.

      In my experience the *real* issue with Project Management is that it is rarely part of the original recipe. Effective PM processes take commitment, work, time and resources and are rarely part of the initial project's planning. What happens is the need for PM suddenly becomes apparent when deadlines and requirements start to slip and management suddenly decides they need to do something. What results is a rush to institute some kind of PM process, that necessarily disrupts the project because now you've added work to the guys in the trenches. They now have to do all their previous work (which is already behind schedule) AND all the reporting and process wickets required by the PM process being mandated. This kind of thing often happens when some small program gains some success, then grows more complex as the need for it grows. The PM process for some small project, doesn't usually support a large development team, but nobody realizes this until it's too late.

      There are some really good project management techniques out there, but you have to START the program using them, or suffer lots of pain retrofitting your process to use them. It's hard work...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    3. Re:Does nobody read anymore? by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

      ^^ THIS.

      I was about to post a "No Shit, Sherlock" as an answer to "Is Project Management Killing Good Products, Teams and Software?" but your answer is perfect.

      Time and time again I seen people / companies _completely_ fail to heed the two most important points of the book:

      * Plan to throw one away, you will anyways.
      * Adding more people to an already late project just makes the project later

      It would be funny if it wasn't so sad how people are completely ignorant of software development history. But I guess Microsoft loves to keep re-inventing chat

      --
      Fuck You Red Cross for hijacking a COLOR, and a PLUS symbol when the Knights used it _hundreds_ of years before you did.

    4. Re:Does nobody read anymore? by Entrope · · Score: 2

      Lowe is doing even worse than just complaining that planning knowledge work is hard: he's complaining that it is not only impossible, but that it is harmful to try. It's great for consultants if they can convince the customer that is true, because then the customer won't actually hold them responsible for time or dollar budgets, but it is essentially not true. Almost no software development is comparable to building a fusion reactor from scratch, or sending a manned spacecraft to Jupiter, and competent managers can usually recognize when a project involves that many unknowns. Lowe's blog post is essentially a prolonged admission of the first "value" of Zed A. Shaw's Programming, Motherfucker.

    5. Re:Does nobody read anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Old Dilbert comics are as accurate, and funnier.

    6. Re:Does nobody read anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody knew how complicated project management is! Believe me!

    7. Re:Does nobody read anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why did you insult me in a way that is untrue and write three paragraphs that did not refute what I said? You are clearly projecting. All the criticisms you have are addressed in the PMBOK, yet claim I have not read a (admittedly aged) classic CS work. Hell, even common sense would dictate that at least some of the thousands of people that have worked on the PMBOK have also read Brooks.

      What is the point in the poorly veiled projection and insults? Your post isn't adding anything to the discussion, merely vague complaining with concerns that have already been addressed. Gaming the system for moderation points? Flexing your ego? Certainly not the truth. Certainly not to make the world better.

    8. Re:Does nobody read anymore? by phantomfive · · Score: 1
      The quote from MMM that really captures it for me is this one:

      "The key thrust of recent years was delegating power down. It was like magic! Improved quality, productivity, morale. We have small teams with no central control. The teams own the process, but they have to have one. They have many different processes. They own the schedule, but they feel the pressure of the market. This pressure causes them to reach for tools on their own."

      A lot of 'modern' management schemes, like scrum, are designed to goad programmers to work harder. Even Silicon Valley portrays Scrum as getting programmers to work harder. That's the whole purpose, it's a stick managers can wield.

      The kind of programmers I like working with can self-manage. The only coordination we need is figuring out who will work on what.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Does nobody read anymore? by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      Does nobody read anymore "The Mythical Man-Month" by Fred Brooks.

      I've recently decided to revisit that book (after ~20 years) and I was not impressed. For example, the book talks about one man having the overview - seeing the whole picture, making design choices and ensuring consistency in various parts of the project ... the trouble is that the projects now are much bigger, more people are involved, often at different locations and timezones ... I mean, perhaps it can be an interesting read and good inspiration, but applying that to present world requires non-trivial leaps.

  9. Or maybe no. by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    Or maybe no.

    1. Re:Or maybe no. by sfcat · · Score: 1

      Or maybe no.

      Definitely YES, I've rarely come across a more true thing outside of mathematics

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    2. Re:Or maybe no. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      There are very, very few project managers that are actually not detrimental to the production process. And a tiny subset of those is actually helpful. I'm blessed with some of this category (and yes, they cost more than minimum wage... quite a bit more).

      The best project managers know that their job is to keep the spice flowing and to give their engineers what they need to be productive. They know how to requisition resources at the right time and in the right amount for the right people from the right source.

      These people are rare. If you ever run across one, don't let them go!

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  10. Opinions! by DarkLordBelial · · Score: 1

    Has the blogger got anything to back up his claims or is it just another consultant looking for a gig?

  11. Good project management matters by sgrover · · Score: 5, Informative

    I've been around for a number of years in the dev trade. I've seen good and bad projects. When project management is done well it makes a world of difference. Everyone knows what needs to be done without needing three meetings a week just to figure out who is working on what. The deliverables get clearly defined, and change management is enshrined and accounted for. Working in this environment is awesome. Now, do project management badly and your project WILL be over budget and over schedule. Nobody will be happy and it will be a crap job. Nobody will be especially clear what the deliverables are because change management is not accounted for and you have moving targets. The team spends more time finding who to blame than just fixing the problem. My opinion - if you are using the wrong tools, you'll have wrong project management. (i.e. Asana is a task tracker, not an asset manager, resource planner, time log, or credential manager... Task tracking is only part of the equation).

    1. Re:Good project management matters by kanwisch · · Score: 1

      Let's accept some PMs are rigid and use excessive formality, often in subject areas which have zero relevance. Over 15 years of doing this I can tell you sgrover's take is the one all PMs should be trained. Seeing roadblocks before they become roadblocks (RISK!) and clearing them, only holding a discussion (NOT status) when needed solely with those required, ensuring your business partner knows what's going on but isn't bored by technical chit-chat, and supporting your s/w team needs. Dates MUST be set or, in many cases, s/w guys slack or get easily distracted. I know this, I was a prog/analyst for a very long time, and observed the same human behavior in many other technical staff (infra, security, app dev, arch, etc).

      The proscribed solution? Agile. Most of industry's take on Agile is just a way of avoiding accountability for hard work, IMO. Very few seem to get it and do it right, maybe that will change.

  12. It's Project MISmanagement mostly by Gim+Tom · · Score: 4, Informative

    Project mis-managers make nice pretty Gantt charts to show the C-suite, but try to actually use them to plan and manage a project. Gantt and PERT were developed as REPORTING visuals during the Polaris missile program to show Congress how things were working. I got a degree in Industrial and Systems engineering before being seduced by computers and during my entire career I never saw any Project Manager that understood that. What's worse they would pull times for task completion out of somewhere the sun never shone.

    At one time I was over a group that did final post production QA on in house programs. The project manager allocated a week for the QA testing of the entire system and I told him that it would take at least four and maybe six weeks. I had no input to the original time allocated. On the very first day of testing I was able to find enough problems that when I wrote them up and turned them over to the project manager that day he turned blue. It was at least three weeks work before he was able to get those fixed and give us another shot at testing. Final outcome was that we were right at the six week point before we were able to report the system clean enough to use.

    1. Re:It's Project MISmanagement mostly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that's weird, someone else's' estimate pulled from their ass was wrong, but YOUR'S pulled from the same place was spot on the money, that's incredibly unexpected, who could have imagined

    2. Re:It's Project MISmanagement mostly by anon+mouse-cow-aard · · Score: 1
      The worst time to plan a project is at the beginning. You have zero information. You don't know if your goals are reasonable/achievable/desirable. You don't know if you will need to "pivot", you don't much of anything. The way to minimize project and time risk is to know a lot before you commit to a deliverable. Too often, when people talk about "project" and they focus on cost or schedule, it drives all out all exploration, and you end up on a death march towards goals set when you knew nothing.

      Most PM methodologies encourage up-front planning, which is hard work and next to useless. Plan a little bit, do a little bit, see how things are going, rinse, lather, repeat. Many projects start out with grandiose goals, when no-one can say anything sensible. It's fine to make a grand plan, but figure out a small step that will increase knowledge about validity of the grand plan, and hopefully be independently useful. Plan that small step. Do that. One small step at a time, you make progress.

      PM sorely tempts people into becoming schedule box-tickers, and tsk, tskers. The mortal enemy of PM's is usually "risk", it's all about mitigating or eliminating risks. When you eliminate risk, you eliminate opportunities. If you get obsessed with risk, it crushes exploration, and prevents you from learning what you actually should be doing. When you put too much detail in the plan, people become slaves to decisions made when you knew less.

      Ideally, a PM methodology should understand that things go in phases, and when you learn methodologies, you hear about how they ought to be used, but often the hierarchy thinks that by controlling budgets and schedules they are "managing", but all they are managing is "budgets" and "schedules", which doesn't necessarily achieve any business goals.

      The PM methodology that seemed closest to encouraging this sort of iteration is PRINCE II*, with it's explicit staging, and explicit re-appraisal at each stage. Start with a stage that involves exploring assumptions, and validating them, perhaps fleshing out the business case, and sharpening the objectives. So you go through the first stage, and you look at what you know and does the eventual goal still look reasonable? yes? ok: Plan next stage (not whole project, just one stage at a time.)

      The ideas in PRINCEII are fundamentally good, but there is a huge risk in that organizations may turn any methodology into a counter-productive, soul crushing, box ticking train wreck. That's actually one of the primary, and most difficult, risks to mitigate.

      *yes, biased, I took the course, and got PRINCE II practitioner certified a decade ago. Fwiw, took other courses related to PMBOC, and have seen other methods, lots of waterfalls, so my sample size is at least >1.

    3. Re: It's Project MISmanagement mostly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      never seen prince2 be anything less than siloed waterfall

  13. Shitty project management is. No news here. by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    Shitty project management is doing this. But this is no news, is it?

    Software stuff is infinetely creative and infinitely complex - it is very easy to screw stuff like this up from a management perspective. Especially since software developers themselves often get predictions about their work wrong - even in an environment where they can control all aspects of their project.
    Good project managment is an art and with software it is an exceptionally arcane art. Screw it up even a little and your project goes haywire.

    All this is long since well established and it's one of the bains of our profession that we have to deal with day in and day out.

    So no news here.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  14. No, HR is doing the killing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With their SJW company bullshit like not letting you hit on hot chicks and not letting you discuss hot chicks with your co workers. That, and transgender washrooms.

  15. Project Management Exists to Please Shareholders by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Project Management is a purely Capitalistic invention that was created for the sole purpose of pleasing shareholders - to tell them precisely when they would be spending money and receiving revenue, and precisely how much it would be, in advance of forevermore.

    This was its primary purpose. However, it has a nefarious secondary purpose. My company sent me to a PM program and in that program I learned that schedules are there to suppress employee performance reviews to justify not giving meritorious raises. It was right there in the slide deck, in black and white.

    One of your goals as a PM is to make sure resources (not allowed to say "people") are NEVER actually on-time, so that managers can use that as justification for mediocre performance reviews. "Push really hard for the stretch goal and make sure it is known that anything else is doing the bare minimum and will not be rewarded." That's what is written in my notes from the class.

    Then they invented what is called the "schedule performance index." That is a measure of how well a resource is conforming to the schedule. SPI less than 1 means being late (which is the desired outcome) while SPI greater than 1 means being ahead of schedule. When a resource has an SPI greater than 1, action should be taken to bring the SPI back down below 1 as quickly as possible, either through additional work allocation or by initiating a quality audit, which slows a resource down significantly (a quality audit is basically saying "hey your SPI is > 1 and you're going too fast, so we worry about the quality of your output, so we're going to demand all of these additional reviews because you're not taking your time, and BTW this lack of care for quality will be noted on your performance review).

    Modern PM initiatives also require a 2-sigma gaussian distribution of performance review outcome. So, in other words, within 2 SDs of the norm are considered "meets standards barely" while anyone below 2 is seriously underperforming, and over 2 are your one or two "superstars."

    This is what PMs are being taught to do. I wish it weren't true, but if you're a technical resource (recall, not allowed to say "people"), you truly are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

  16. Price in status reports by sfcat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The problem is that upper management doesn't understand that status reports have a non-zero, non-trivial cost. When a project gets into trouble, the number of status reports and meetings increase, which surprise surprise, slows down progress. Also, software development is non-linear for at least part of any non trivial project. Refusing to accept that fact has caused problems for decades. Sometimes as a developer, it feels like management is working against us. Does any of that sound like a useful part of running the business?

    --
    "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    1. Re:Price in status reports by CrybabiesArePeople · · Score: 0

      To them the cost seems (at first) zero, since they expect you to do the reporting on unpaid overtime.

    2. Re:Price in status reports by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      That is why you let the issue tracker generate the status report(s).
      So if a manager goes maniac he can click the button to get a new report every second if he so desires.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  17. Product Development isn't mathematical. by jellomizer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Project Management isn't suited for Product development.
    Most project management methods are based on some fallacies.
    1. The users of the product knows what they want: The truth is they don't know what they want until they can get their hands on it, and know if what they see if they like it, hate it, or have a some tweaks that are needed. No matter how many meetings you have with static pictures and blueprints. The user just doesn't know what they want until they can get their hands on it.

    2. Development of modules have a start time and a complete time: Function X may take 2 days to develop. Because it is prerequisite for function Y. However after function Y is completed and used function Z, You need to go back to function X, to get the data prepped for function Z, but you couldn't put that code in for function Z support until you have completed function Y which needed X. Coding isn't linear, they are parts that needs to be addressed and fixed, causing other parts to be reworked or adjusted.

    3. People are interchangeable: A coder is a coder right. Well no. Some of them are really good at doing Database calls, while others are most comfortable with the HTML and JavaScript. While there is an other one who is most comfortable with the Middle tier code. Sure all of them may be able to code all the parts if needed, but for the most part each ones is going to be a specialist in particular parts. This means not all people are used qually or performing each task as efficiently as someone else.

    4. People have lives outside the project: While working most people may get called to take a look at a different project (bug fix a previous completed application) they may need to sit in a meeting for a future project. Also they can get sick, have family emergencies...

    5. Coders just code uniformly: There is a degree of artistic pride every coder uses. Everyone will approach problems a bit differently, they may be arguing with the Architect for them to be doing something a particular way or they will just ignore, misinterpret, the internal parts of the spec, and just make sure the output meets the specs. So this often creates some conflict because the internal changes may affect something else (timing, system resource, readability...) So we may need to redo the function, or just adapt the rest of the stuff around these changes.

    Most PM policies are based on manufacturing processes. Where the goal matches the outcome. Product Development the outcome is usually different then the initial goal.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Product Development isn't mathematical. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Dude just ask a product manager

    2. Re:Product Development isn't mathematical. by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1
    3. Re:Product Development isn't mathematical. by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      It is easy to think that way, but you miss out on many of the benefits of a good project manager. A good PM isolates the team from the politics, manages the scope, and tracks financials-- things programmers and engineers generally hate.

      Software really isn't that different from any other creative field in terms of trying to benchmark in real time. It can be done, but with a lot of caveats, disclaimers, and SWAG. Project managers understand that enough to control the process.

      Working with bad project managers is miserable though. Two hour daily conference calls for something that isn't going to change for three weeks... over Christmas... I can think of one PM I will never work with again.

    4. Re:Product Development isn't mathematical. by CyberLeader · · Score: 1

      You're describing what sounds like a waterfall approach. Successful software development shops dropped that nonsense twenty years ago.

      --

      Software Shouldn't Suck

      E-mail: frank at jacquette dot spamless com (remove the spamless!)

    5. Re:Product Development isn't mathematical. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The user just doesn't know what they want until they can get their hands on it.

      This is actually not true. I've encountered it myself. Even if the users get their hands on it, they still don't know what they want. Actually the opposite. Users usually want to back to the old ways. Users make requirements like "this value must be editable". If you ask for a reason, the reason is that the computer will calculate that value incorrectly so human must be able to change it. All the requirements they make are based on the old system that did things poorly and they don't believe it is possible to write better software. They also want to make the system hard to use by design to prevent other users from making mistakes, even if the new software could easily undo the mistakes that were made, while old system created corrupt data that was hard to save.

      Of course users can be very different. I once had a very technical customer who was holding a soldering iron in his hand. It was really easy working with him.

      I agree with the rest of the points you made. I would also like to add that architecture of the software is most important thing. If you have good architecture, you can easily rewrite any bad part of the system. With good architecture the development costs can be 100 times smaller than with bad architecture, simply by reusing code, making testing of difficult parts easy etc. Good architect will also challenge what the user wants to make sure they get what they really need.

    6. Re:Product Development isn't mathematical. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Two hour daily conference calls for something that isn't going to change for three weeks... over Christmas... I can think of one PM I will never work with again.

      I knew one manager that seriously questioned why the company allowed employees to work between Thanksgiving and Epiphany. Their theory, borne out by years of bitter experience, was that you'd have to redo everything in the first quarter of the following year, so just give the staff that time as paid leave.

  18. What are they going to ask next? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    "Is HR turning away good job candidates because they are looking for perfect job candidates?"

    I feel like some people are refusing to listen to the truth and then after battling with reality for years, they finally arrive to the same conclusion only to announce it like it's some sort of new groundbreaking discovery.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  19. Is this cheating? by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    "The bigger and more comprehensive the plan, the better"

    The plan that is genuinely comprehensive enough can just be compiled and shipped as the software product, no?

  20. One of my favorite Project Managers by MerlynEmrys67 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Take each task estimate... add 50% and turn the date into management.
    Track time estimates, and the 50% slop on top of it. If 1/2 way through the project you have gone through 3/4 of your slop time, you already know you aren't going to make it. If you have only gone through 1/3 of your slop there is a good chance you might actually make it by the 150% time.

    --
    I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
    1. Re:One of my favorite Project Managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      50%?

      Think bigger. Estimates are garbage.

    2. Re:One of my favorite Project Managers by tomhath · · Score: 1

      If 1/2 way through the project you have gone through 3/4 of your slop time, you already know you aren't going to make it.

      The fallacy there is that you think you can determine when you're 1/2 way through the project.

      Burned half the calendar time? Doesn't mean anything.

      You think half the development is done? No way to know that.

    3. Re:One of my favorite Project Managers by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Good luck with winning a bid that way :D

      Why can you not let people do their own estimates and take them?

      the likelihood that anything _you_ add (or remove) improves the accuracy is more or less ZERO.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    4. Re:One of my favorite Project Managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      The best method I've found is to take your best-guess estimate, double it, then increment the unit of measure. If you think it will take one day, it will take two weeks.

      I once knew a manager who got oversized dice (cube-shaped boxes); one with digits on the faces, the other with units of time (i.e. "Days", "Weeks", "Months", etc.). Any time management demanded an estimate, someone would "roll the dice" and produce one. I don't think that this method was any less accurate than the more "formal" methods I've seen.

    5. Re:One of my favorite Project Managers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good luck with winning a bid that way :D

      At my first programming job, I discovered that my manager was taking my best-guess estimates and cutting them in half (or less) before using them in the proposal to the client. I complained about it, and he assured me that he knew that his estimates were far too optimistic, but if he didn't do that he would never get any contracts. Once the client was committed, they generally would put up with the 100% overruns rather than start over with a different vendor (who would most likely do the same thing).

      And that's why software projects are always late.

  21. Shitty programming languages play a big role. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    There's the stupid saying that I'm sure we've all heard, "A bad craftsman always blames his tools!". The reality, though, is that some tools are just fucking awful, no matter who is using them. Even in the hands of the best expert to have ever existed there are tools that won't work well at all.

    We see that happening with software development. As we've seen more shitty tools like Ruby, JavaScript and even Rust be used, we've seen software quality decline steeply. Such software is often slow. It's bloated. It's hard to maintain. It's just an awful experience for users and programmers alike.

    Rust is perhaps the epitome of this phenomenon. In my opinion it takes the worst aspects of the major programming languages, adds in confusion, adds in hype, and the results are a stunning disappointment. Look at how little has been accomplished on Servo, a new web browser engine specifically written in Rust. I've been tracking its progress for a couple of years now, and it's very underachieving, I think. I'd say it's no better than a late-1990s era browser engine, and in some ways it's worse.

    I wish we'd see programmers go back to the days of using languages like C, C++, and Delphi. At least that software worked well, it performed well, it was usable, and allowed developers to create and maintain the software within reasonable time frames. It's a far cry from the JavaScript or Ruby projects we see today that deliver a crappy user experience, and it takes the programmers forever just to get something built.

    1. Re:Shitty programming languages play a big role. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sometimes the tools suck, and a lot of the time the developers suck

      I have lead development efforts, with the front end developed in javascript, which were function, scalable and delivered on-time.

      I have also seen one lousy team member drag the entire effort down. The only way to stay on top of it is to know exactly what each team member is responsible for and 68-ing any non-performers.

    2. Re:Shitty programming languages play a big role. by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      The language is pretty much irrelevant. You have data and you have processes. You can try ot turn all your stuff into data objects like Java but you still end up with Interfaces (processes).

      Recognition that there actually are different kinds of thangs used to program with leads to widespread use of actually useful languages such as Cobol, C, C++, Perl and Javascript, all popular and none with a design philosophy that overrides real-world coding.

    3. Re:Shitty programming languages play a big role. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      SERIOUSLY?!?

      No. Programmers have done projects in ancient languages that make Rust, Delphi and JavaScript look absolutely advanced.

      You NEED to read No Silver Bullet.

    4. Re:Shitty programming languages play a big role. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      A good craftsman uses tools that are appropriate to the job.

      I am very unimpressed with 10,000 pages documenting how the software project was managed, when there is nary a page of documentation on how the end-user is going to use the software in question.

      Seeing scenarios like that occur umpteen times, in projects led by those who alleged are qualified in PM, more or less soured me on PM. It wasn't until I took the time to intensively study PM, that I understood why that most of those projects were led by blithering idiots that didn't know what was, and was not appropriate for any specific project.

      The textbooks neither explain which tools are appropriate for which situation, nor why that is the case.

    5. Re:Shitty programming languages play a big role. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A good craftsman does not blame their tools because they choose the best tool for the job and if the current tool is not good enough, they make a better tool. A craftsman can never be better than their tool.

    6. Re:Shitty programming languages play a big role. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I'm still using C today. I wish it was C++ though, but the self taught people push back too much on it. C is just too free form, and requires a large amount of self discipline to create organized software that is maintainable. C++ at least has the built in tools to help with this; classes, names spaces, stronger typing, etc.

      It's a quandary though. Most younger people with CS background are clueless about hardware or low level programming. EE people understand that but are often clueless about software abstraction or how to write code that a second person is able to read.

    7. Re: Shitty programming languages play a big role. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No comment on python? Iean I like python but the fact you mentioned Ruby but NOT python tells me you probably just don't like Ruby!

  22. This reminds me of the good old... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
  23. MBAs are killing Good Products, etc by Snotnose · · Score: 5, Informative

    I first hit this in the 80's. Our company was the first to use microprocessors to replace walls of computers with boxes maybe 3 cubic feet (1x1x3), that by the way did 10 times the work the walls of computers did.

    One quarter the defense budget got cut and we went from growing 40% to 20%. 20% growth sounds good to you and me. But to the bean counters it was a layoff. That got the expected profits for the quarter back in line at the expense of future growth and morale.

    I have to admit, that first layoff got rid of a lot of deadwood. But the second, third, and fourth really killed the company. Those that were either marginal, or not good at politics, got canned. Those that were good at their jobs looked around, said "um, how about no", and left.

    I got hit in the 4th layoff, and only got laid off again once since I learned the signs. The second time was a start up failing, I hadn't yet learned how to read a balance sheet.

    MBAs don't understand the morale hit they take when they do a layoff. They may say they do, but they don't. I've survived several layoffs, each time morale went to hell and a lot of good people went searching for more stable pastures.

    1. Re:MBAs are killing Good Products, etc by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      NO man just ask a product manager

    2. Re:MBAs are killing Good Products, etc by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck does your idiotic anti-MBA rant have to do with project management?

  24. Anyone who has ever worked with a GOOD PM knows... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...that they're worth every penny. They take care of all the bin shuffling and cat wrangling so the developers and engineers don't have to.

  25. Embedded Systems by MountainLogic · · Score: 2

    Wow. So much to say on this I don't know where to start. In embedded system development, where you are co-developing HW/FW/SW, there is such a mismatch between worlds that I've yet to see a good way to manage it. HW often has three+ month iteration cycles so it is a complete mismatch with software cycles. The only PM magic I've seen is Design Reviews Up Front (DRUP). For example, after the HW folks have rough block diagrams done in the first week or two, have a deep design review with ALL parties (ME/FW/SW/Mfg/Buyers/Service/etc) BEFORE they start detailed schematic design then have another DRUP before layout. This is the closest thing I've seen to continuous integration in embedded systems. Far too often I've seen the EEs show up for the only design review with finished schematics three days late for sending it to layout only to hear from the FW or SW team that the CPU they've chosen will not work. Of course by then it is too late then to fix the problem. The SW team is usually off developing on an overpowered development board (or worse, PCs) that has no relation to the real target so the SW will never fit the real product. The other big review fail I've seen is only inviting your discipline to your design review (eg., only EEs to HW). Inviting only your tribe to only a final review is only an exercise in "how can our tribe improve for next time," not a way to improve this product. I still do run things scrummy, but tend to be very lax on estimates, etc.

    1. Re: Embedded Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is this 'embedded' thing you speak of? Don't you know that constraints such as power, storage , heat have been abstracted away by the cloud?

      And now suitability abstracted, authors of TFA can now hold forth that project management to identify dependencies , assumptions schedule like , say *Christmas* shopping season are just soooo not agile and learning , and , 'yeah'

    2. Re:Embedded Systems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. So much to say on this I don't know where to start. In embedded system development, where you are co-developing HW/FW/SW, there is such a mismatch between worlds that I've yet to see a good way to manage it. HW often has three+ month iteration cycles so it is a complete mismatch with software cycles. The only PM magic I've seen is Design Reviews Up Front (DRUP). For example, after the HW folks have rough block diagrams done in the first week or two, have a deep design review with ALL parties (ME/FW/SW/Mfg/Buyers/Service/etc) BEFORE they start detailed schematic design then have another DRUP before layout. This is the closest thing I've seen to continuous integration in embedded systems. Far too often I've seen the EEs show up for the only design review with finished schematics three days late for sending it to layout only to hear from the FW or SW team that the CPU they've chosen will not work. Of course by then it is too late then to fix the problem. The SW team is usually off developing on an overpowered development board (or worse, PCs) that has no relation to the real target so the SW will never fit the real product. The other big review fail I've seen is only inviting your discipline to your design review (eg., only EEs to HW). Inviting only your tribe to only a final review is only an exercise in "how can our tribe improve for next time," not a way to improve this product. I still do run things scrummy, but tend to be very lax on estimates, etc.

      You didn't really need to state you were an embedded programmer, we could tell from the lack of white-space.

    3. Re:Embedded Systems by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      I also work on systems that combine custom HW, SW, and FW. What works for us is to design the interfaces between the three first. Then that becomes the requirements, and the three teams can then go off and design their subsystems any way they want as long as they meet the requirements.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
  26. Yes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because yes.

  27. Simple answer to a stupid question by gnunick · · Score: 1

    All one needs to do is... ask Betteridge.

    --
    I have no special gift, I am only passionately curious. --Albert Einstein
    1. Re:Simple answer to a stupid question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, this story reeks of "my pet project was canned just because I couldn't deliver anything within screeching distance of what I first promised".

      Project management "kills products, teams and software" - sure, that's it's job - to tell the people who allocate resources when it's time to stop allocating them to this particular dead end or bottomless pit. From the perspective of the people digging it, of course the pit isn't bottomless; but in terms of the benefit they were supposed to deliver, there will (sometimes) come a time when it becomes clear that this project is going to eat more resources (including opportunity cost) than it's ever likely to repay, and at that point it's absolutely right to pull the plug even if the ultimate product is a great one.

  28. Lessons learned by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm continually surprised at all the things we learned about engineering software systems that don't get applied back into management.

    We know throwing threads at a problem doesn't work if all you do is end up locking everything. We know that high coupling and low cohesion leads to irreducible complexity. Sharing mutable state instead of doing a little bit of analysis to see what the dependencies are and break down tasks to minimize the reach of these dependencies.

    Yet somehow, all these lessons from concrete experience (rather than abstract theory) gets thrown out the door in project management, even from managers who were once software engineers. Project management should be there to facilitate message passing and work stealing queues without trying to force when these things happen.

    --
    Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
  29. Not really by Kjella · · Score: 2

    If the project is feasible, good developers will get it done regardless of or even despite the plan. The vast majoity of plans have problems because they want a man-year's worth of code from three months of work, which means it was never a good plan. But poor project management can turn a bad plan into a disaster by refusing to acknowledge the delay. I've been in meeting that pretty much involved badgering the developers until our estimates said we'd deliver. Oddly enough those "revised" estimates never came true...

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  30. The BIG problem is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good project managers say no.

    So, they get fired or sidelined and the ones who always say yes but are are all bullshit and smoke rise to the top.

    That's from a lot of years in the software industry.

  31. Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by raymorris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Indeed, while poorly done planning is useless, or worse, PROPER planning can be VERY useful.

    Here's a very important fact - programmers consistently over-estimate how much they can get done in a week or a month. Consistently, that's the key word. We're wrong about how long things will take, but we're wrong in a fairly predictable way. If tasks are well defined, programmers are pretty good at estimating the RELATIVE size of job - task A will likely take about twice as long as task B. Here's what the planned productivity vs actual completed tasks might look like for a typical Agile team, with the amount done measured in "story points":

    Sprint #. Plan Actual completed
    Sprint 1. 124 98
    Sprint 2. 105 96
    Sprint 3. 131 102
    Sprint 4. 116 97

    The team fell short of their plan every time. And they pretty consistently get about 98 points. If management believes the 131 number, there will be problems. It works pretty well if management looks at historical fact and says "this team completes about 98 points per sprint. Let's do the project plan based on 85 points total for the team."

    Let's address the "delusions" (straw men) that the author sets up:

    > The plan is perfect and guarantees success;

    Perfection is not required for something to be valuable. The author's proposal is even LESS perfect. While a plan can't guarantee success, it does at least define success, so you know when you're done, and what you're aiming for. Failing to plan, on the other hand, almost guarantees perpetual scope-creep, where a project can never be a success because it never ends.

    > The cost of forming and dissolving teams is zero;

    Very often the cost of forming a team is WORTH IT

    > The cost of functional silo hand-offs is zero;

    Again, not zero, but worth it

    > The bigger and more comprehensive the plan, the better;

    If you don't have a big-picture plan of what your company or organization is trying to do, what are the odds that you'll accidentally accomplish it?

    More specifically, what often happens without a big-picture plan is that functional level teams such as programmers do cool stuff that gets abandoned shortly afterward. They may spend a month integrating the systems of a division that gets sold off two months later. They may do cool stuff for managing desktop applications, while another team is busily moving everything to the cloud.

    > Predictability and efficiency are paramount.

    Your idea for what you want your team to do sounds good. My different idea sounds good. So does Kevin's idea. Unless we find a way to predict how long these projects will take, WE DON'T KNOW IF WE SHOULD DO THEM AT ALL. There are many, many projects that should be done if we can do them this week, and should not be done if it'll take a year. Yes, predictability *is* important. At a much higher level, the executives at your young, growing company are borrowing millions of dollars to fund the company until it becomes profitable. Those loans start coming due in three years. Yes, for a young company, it's very survival depends on predicting how long these will take and how much they will cost. Predicting is hard (though certain methods make it much easier), but it's essential.

    1. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agile is a manifesto. It's pretty much truisms. Hard to argue with. Scrum is just a daily waste of time.

      However Agile has some real concrete components: e.g. 'Hire competent enthusiastic individuals'.

      So the first thing to do when a prospective boss claims agile is BULLSHIT DETECT! If the place looks to be staffed with anything other than competent enthusiastic individuals, you know they are just lying to themselves and you. Run away. There is nothing worse than Agile done wrong.

      Extrapolate further: Competent enthusiastic individuals...server side Javascript. There are no Agile teams running Javascript on the server! None.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 0

      Your conclusion by management to plan with 85 SP is wrong.
      The planning of your sprints is wrong.

      SN planned actual
      Sprint #. Plan Actual completed
      Sprint 1. 124 98
      Sprint 2. 98 96
      Sprint 3. 96 102
      Sprint 4. 102 97

      For the next sprint, you use as likelely doable number the actual completed SP from thr current/just finished sprint.
      You adjust that plan only, if you have more workers, more workdays or less thereoff.

      The managament, if at all, should plan with 96 or 97 SP per sprint, and hopefully with an velocity increase.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      If Scrum does not work for you, you most likely are nor doing Scrum, but some bollocks some one sold you as Scrum.
      Or your developers are all pretty poor ;)

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    4. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      There are no Agile teams running Javascript on the server! None.
      Thats bollocks. The development methodology has nothing to do with the used technology or architecture.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      > Thats bollocks. The development methodology has nothing to do with the used technology or architecture.

      May I differ? Some methodologies are much larger on standardization and common practices. Others are sensitive to security concerns, others use sophisticated continuous integration techniques. Others are prone to excitement with the latest exciting technologies or bleeding edge approaches. Others are extremely sensitive to cost, and focus intently on the specific goal with no resources for out-of-band involvement whatsoever. Others are open source or freeware friendly and willing to use third party tools and publish their changes back to that community. All have effects on the particular technologies and architecture of large projects.

    6. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      All have effects on the particular technologies and architecture of large projects.
      No it does not.

      A client server architecture is either necessary or not, and has nothing to do with methodology.
      Languages and technologies are completely free to chose. Of course you most likely would not use SOAP and code in assembler at the same time. But if you really want ... why not?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    7. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      > A client server architecture is either necessary or not, and has nothing to do with methodology.

      If I may differ, _of course_ it does. The communication protocol used among them may be multi-threaded, highly redundant and secure, and robust from single points of failure or short transmisson losses. Those may be critical where the methodology, and the management approach, foster extremely robust individual stages as part of a larger, high reliability structure where every component is considered critical to success. This leads to meticulous testing, thorough API design, and using well established technologies. It also tends to involve older languages and protocols for their proven track record and greater familiarity, and the age of the developers.

      Conversely, the project management may be speed oriented. Time to market may be critical, and some methodologies do _much_ better at time to release. Those often tend towards freer technologies with non-standard "glue" inserted wherever a particular developer has an immediate need.and tends to have _far_ less unit testing or defined APIs. Some technologies _foster_ such approaches, and will tend to have younger developers excited at the latest exciting languages and tools.

      The list goes on, and the correlations are fascinating.

    8. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Found a project manager, or better, a Scrum coach!

    9. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It works pretty well if management looks at historical fact and says "this team completes about 98 points per sprint. Let's do the project plan based on 85 points total for the team."

      Should this be before or after they reduce the available time frame by 40% to match the price they promised the customer?

    10. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      A methodology (manifesto) calls for getting the job done by hiring 'competent enthusiastic individuals'. You won't find those teams running shit tools, 'Competent enthusiastic individuals' are resigned to javascript in the browser, but on the server? I've never met one, rather 'incompetent enthusiastic', the worst kind of incompetent.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    11. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      If a company wants to use Node.js on the server, the developers have to comply.
      And if they do Scrum while developing in JavaScript, who cares?

      And no idea what you have against Node.js. There are plenty of successful projects out there done with Node.js. (I don't do JavaScript, as I don't like it, however it again has noting to do withAgile/not Agile etc.)

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    12. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      All this has nothing to do with the question wether you develop with an agile method (Scrum, XP, Kanban) or water fall or RUP or what ever.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    13. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      If a company wants to use Node.js on the server, _competent_ developers find someplace else to work. That's the whole point. 'Competent enthusiastic' developers don't use shit tools. Right tool for the job etc.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    14. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Agile doesn't endorse methods, it's a manifesto. Agile explicitly states 'people over process'. Which lets out _all_ the rigid methodologies.

      I'll grant that in practice 'Agile' most commonly means 'scrum deathmarch with whatever low paid, inexperienced, burnout developers are stupid enough to work for us.' In other words 'not agile'.

      My point was when faced with a prospective client/employer who claims 'agile', look out for 'scrum deathmarch'. Don't work there if so.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    15. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I'm not convinced that Node.js is a shit technology.

      In my current project we use it for integration tests to mock away SOAP and REST servers. It works good and easy (on any hardware and OS), what do you want more?

      As I'm not really fluent in JavaScript, I don't really care about all this new ***.JS stuff ... never interested me. And I don't jump technologies for "more money" ... it is not worth it, in my opinion.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    16. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I never saw a "scrum deathmarch" project.
      I only met astonishing bad ScrumMasters lately :D

      In my current project, however, it is ok.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    17. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I don't know you. But the impression I've gotten from your posts is that you've been working one place for 20 some years.

      If you've never seen 'scrum deathmarch' you've led a sheltered life. Continuous sprints?

      In my experience 'Agile' is _most_ commonly used to justify: 'No spec, no standard, no plan, no testing. Make it up as we go along. Same as we've always done. But now we've got cover. We're not hacks, we're Agile!'

      My core point is, when you hear 'Agile' the odds are high that they aren't. Off hand fapping is not 'Agile'.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    18. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I'm self employed.

      I switch about every two years my project, but sometimes twice a year.

      "'No spec, no standard, no plan, no testing."
      Never been in such a project, regardless of "traditional" or "agile".

      My core point is, when you hear 'Agile' the odds are high that they aren't.
      Well, in my world they are, but I live in Germany/Europe.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    19. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      To refresh your memory. I have dual American/German citizenship, but am an American (who drives, drinks and skis like a German). Extensive power industry experience. I have relatives working in IT in Germany. (Particularly banking, we talked a lot of risk management shop.) I know for a fact that Germany is not some ideal world where there are no hacks (proof: SAP) or death marches.

      I'd put your experience down to 'power industry' rather than 'Germany'. Rare 'engineer focused' industry.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    20. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      I'm not a manager or coach of any description. Scrum (or something similar) works for us.

      I've read about Scrum failing, and I've noticed that there's often things like multi-hour daily meetings or nobody with the authority to decide what's actually wanted. If you do Scrum badly like that, it will almost certainly fail. If you do it well, and you have competent developers, you're likely to succeed.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    21. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Well, right now I work for a software company that does the back ends for car companies, basically everything under the VW umbrella.

      Before that I worked for a company that does the school administration software for Bayern and Baden Württemberg. Before that I worked for the software daughter of the internet betting company Tipico.

      My power company experiences where btw. mainly waterfall/RUP ... I actually urgent them to Scrum, and later did 2 projects again were Scrum was the main method. They did not do it particular good, but not bad either.

      So, when you work in Germany you probably meet those "Ãoeber" ScrumMasters who do everything else "en vogue" but not Scrum :D I pity you ... I hate those girls (most of the time they are girls).

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    22. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Are you saying you also know how to spot bad 'scrum/agile' shops? That was my main point.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    23. Re:Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      You know it after the first sprint.
      I don't "judge" shops on first glance. To many variables.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  32. AGILE WORKS EVERY TIME by Billly+Gates · · Score: 4, Funny

    Whoa man all the cool hip project managers Agile development as it solves 100% of the problems 100% of the time. It makes you grow a beard and transports you to a hipster Silicon Valley coffee shop with music playing that hasn't even been written yet complete with groupies watching you code.

    1. Re:AGILE WORKS EVERY TIME by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Agile/Scrum is the least worst approach to software development management. In the 12 years I have been a .NET dev, the Scrum teams definitely outperformed the waterfall ones. None were close to perfect.

    2. Re:AGILE WORKS EVERY TIME by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      ssshhhhh, don't give the buzzword huggers & PHB's around here any ideas. I swear if they read enough articles saying cow-shaped buttplugs make coders more productive or software more future-ready, they'd go around shoving one up everyone's keester without asking. (Half the coders around here would claim they like it to just to please the boss, and the other half really would like it.)

  33. That author needed a deadline on the article by LesFerg · · Score: 1

    Wouldn't have hurt if the author had been given a project plan and a deadline for that article.
    Maybe I'm getting old and impatient but it went on for far too long.
    Great sentiment and I have seen many of the effects mentioned, but hey, summarize.

    --
    If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
  34. Apple under Jobs and Cook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Has anyone here worked for Apple, with Steve Jobs or Tim Cook as CEO? I'd love to read what you say about their styles, and their strong and weak points.

    And if you worked for both men, then even better - I'd love to read what you say about how they differ.

    1. Re: Apple under Jobs and Cook by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up. I wanna see how long the author of TFA would have survived under those regime's... (OK, OK, f Cook, he's confused as Google is an ad company but he's pretending to be a tech company righting Google defined wrongs in society)

  35. One worse... by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 2

    project managers that graduated from the school of flagellation

    I've encountered one that it even worse: the Golgafrincham B ark school of project management where you have to hire a business consultant to go around and make sure that the project really is what we need and, after that, to ask whether the proposed solution will satisfy everyone, and after that to... etc. although it did not get quite as far as involving telephone sanitizers. The result was that what should have been a simple one or two month project took over two years, much of which was pointless and endless consultation to learn what we already knew and it delivered something less useful than it should have been because everyone just wanted it to be over.

    So really bad project management not only kills a good product it can almost kill your will to live!

  36. Waterfall and Rational Rose All the WAY!!!! by Proudrooster · · Score: 1

    What is this Theory X?

    I am still using the Waterfall Model and IBM's Rational Rose Modeler. Does software development get any better?

  37. Bad PMs kill projects by ErichTheRed · · Score: 2

    The difference between an effective and ineffective PM is astounding in most places I've worked. On one end you have a forceful PM who will beat up their resources and harass their managers until the work is done. On the other are the PMPs clinging for dear life to their copy of the PMBOK who are unable to get anyone to do what they want.

    You can tell a PM isn't so great when you hear the exact same phrases and jargon repeated in the exact same order on endless conference calls. [1] I'm not saying it's easy either...I could never do that job because I can't coerce people to do what needs to be done. And when it comes down to it, that's a PM's only job...well, that and checking the boxes and filling out Gantt charts.

    [1] I swear that one PM I worked with would say "Good morning, who just joined the call?" in the EXACT same tone, rhythm and texture at the sound of every beep on conference calls. It was like a machine!

    1. Re: Bad PMs kill projects by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they made a machine out of that pm

  38. PMs aren't Goal-Oriented by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I work in the auto industry. My big problem with PMs is that they aren't goal oriented. They never ask "what is my goal here?" They just ram an agenda (every problem is a nail if you're a hammer). Different projects have different goals. Did we sell a new 4-zone HVAC controller for an upcoming 2020 SUV? Well, then, come hell or high water, we need to meet deadlines. But, most projects don't have that kinda of relationships. I have done production, tight-timeline projects, true blue sky research projects and several notches in between (today I do something like one or two iterations back from the latest tech, so advanced but not quite research). If you run an advanced development project like a production project with a date vehicles need to be off the line, you're often missing out. The certainty in timeline may be required (for example to beat a competitor, some outside date factor or to finish a demo for some event). But, it usually isn't. But, do PMs think like this? No. The concept of "opportunity cost" is foreign to 99% of PMs. There is an opportunity cost to certainty. More certainty = less efficiency (and that usually means the feature set is cut down or projects get longer as a nearly-direct result of bad project management). You'd think PMs familiar with real-time systems would know this shit.

  39. BAD Project Management kills everything by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 3, Interesting

    On anything with more than 5-6 people on a team, a project manager is a necessity. It is inefficient in first-order terms, but keeping people focused on what they are good at (and a dedicated person managing scope) dramatically improves productivity. Generally, less than 10% of hours should be in project management.

    Bad project management is a different beast. Bad project managers add needless complexity, waste time, and draw focus to aspects of the project that participants cannot control.

    1. Re:BAD Project Management kills everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Far bigger teams can work fine without a Project Manager if they are following a process like scrum. A Product Manager/Product Owner who actually understands what is being built and who talks directly to the BAs and SMEs and a decent Technical-Team Lead who still codes at least some of the time is fine for teams up to around 15 dev and testers combined. When you start needing to bring in non-dev resources from across the company or arranging meetings with 3rd parties or infrastructure teams...that's when a Project Manager might be needed.

    2. Re:BAD Project Management kills everything by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Actually so small teams don't need a project manager and most of the time they run Scrum/XP anyway.

      The project manager might be helpful in coordinating teams, especially if they belong to different companies, suppliers and customers.

      If a software team needs a project manager, I would fire the team and get better developers.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:BAD Project Management kills everything by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      The technical coder is effectively a project manager in your example-- the problem isn't that developers can't coordinate among themselves, but rather that it becomes less efficient as project complexity increases. If you have a team of superstars you can pull it off, but you are stuck finding superstars for each position. There are places for B-Team players on most projects.

  40. Keep planning and tracking loose and flexible by presidenteloco · · Score: 0

    Get one really intelligent, experienced, accomplished developer who also has really good leadership and communication skills.

    Give them two to three assistants. Best if you let that person pick their assistants.

    Plan what you're going to try to do.

    Identify the shape of it (context, architecture, UX/UI, high level requirements and/or stories.)

    Identify biggest risks and biggest value opportunity directions.

    Let team go to it.

    Assess.

    Revisit.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  41. Estimation technique by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

    Double it and add 30.

    FTW Also roughly converts Celsius to Fahrenheit.

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    1. Re:Estimation technique by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Double it and switch to the next larger unit. Hour becomes day, day becomes week etc.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  42. Good management is about risk management by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In my experience, good managers mitigate risk. Itâ(TM)s getting the right balance of efficiency and redundancy. Adequately buffering for over-optimistic expectations, and calling BS on unnecessary work and priorities.

    A good manager has a plan B, C, D, E, and F ready to go when things inevitably donâ(TM)t work out as planned.

    A good dev should be responsible for their own work and maybe adjacent dependencies, but beyond small teams, you end up needing dedicated folks to coordinate anyway IMHO.

  43. Doing it mechanically by Beeftopia · · Score: 2

    They're trying to reduce everything to statistics and numbers, like Robert McNamara did in Vietnam.

    It's trying to make sense of something they don't really understand - the human element. The chaos. Motivation. Leadership. Ability.

    "If you can't measure what's important, what you can measure becomes important."

  44. budgets! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Does no one here have a budget?!

    At some point, you need to know when to kill off a project and when to go look for more money for it. Money is finite. Complexity, uncertainty... fine. Doesn't matter. It's not just programming that progresses non-linearly, just about everything worth doing works that way! Management works that way.

    Create whatever anachronistic management theory straw man arguments you want. In the end, either you finish the project before the money runs out or you don't.

  45. Maker's Schedule vs Manager's Schedule by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A persistent problem in project management is that managers are on the manager's schedule while the developers and engineers are on the maker's schedule. This problem was described very well by Paul Graham in the original Maker's Schedule, Manager's Schedule article and was discussed here on Slashdot 8 years ago and it's still a problem. Failure to understand and appreciate these observations is the source of much wasted time on many software projects.

  46. Project with no manager by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I once did a project without project manager, well there was a project manager on paper, but we didn't even see him ever, we only got one email from him asking "how is it going" for which we replied that we are doing fine.

    Anyway, the project was finished weeks early, it had only one bug reported (the software was performing too well so we had to add a sleep into it) and the product saved a lot of money for the customer when it was in use.

  47. Re: Yes, TFS is all straw man. *Consistently* wron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    agile is an adverb. can be put to anything you do. the opposite is also true. agile is no process or structure or even lack thereof.

  48. The hardest thing about leading a project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    was being managed by people that someone promoted (occasionally myself) because that was the only way to get negative-contributors off their team.

  49. Re: Project Management Exists to Please Shareholde by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The funny thing is before a major shit decision, they expect "noise" from IT and told to ignore. Dont feed the trolls.

  50. "Project Manager" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A good project manager understands the job and people: she/he knows the team, the product, customers, she/he involves people whatever the weather like.
    It is a balancing act that is really performed well by people having knowledge, know how, empathy and without an oversized ego.

    If your project manager does not train people (does not know the product) and the staff is quiet new (turn over), it is a run-away sign:
    "At least a manager in a McDonald had to work in the kitchen and make burgers"....

  51. What kind of article is this? by dadman · · Score: 2
    I think the author of the article has either completely messed up the roles of People/Line Management, Product Management, Project Management and Product Development in Agile Development; or he mistakenly thought all companies are with infinite resources.

    In an agile team using Kanban, for example, there is no “project” at all—there’s only a continuous stream of value-delivering work, prioritized by someone who keeps a finger on the pulse of the customer and validated with actual customers.

    Yes, we use Kanban, and we deliver a continuous stream of value-delivering work, prioritized. However, the prioritization did not come from someone but an entity of 3, composing of the Project Manager, Product Manager and the Product Owner. These 3 negotiate the best strategy forward, cater all the late changes, factor in the available resources, and keep eyes on the deadline. Yes, there is always a deadline, like it or not. A company with sustainable business have to release a new product when it is still perceived to be valuable to the market, not after.

    Project Management has one key role in all the developments - to manage the resources. A development has only finite resource, be it money, people, space, time, equipment, or skillsets. It is obvious that it is not someone who keeps a finger on the pulse of the customer and validated with actual customers who is managing these. Bad Project Management skill can of course get in the way, but so as Bad *. That we should never use these examples to mislead the reader into thinking because some people do not qualify for their roles means those roles are not essential or better off without.

    the most obvious being the assumption that it is possible to deliver quality and completeness by the deadline

    OMG! This is 21st century and who on earth would still assume this!? No, everyone knows this is not possible, and that's why Project Management work so hard to ensure in advance the necessary resources are in place when needed so that the critical components are ready with an acceptable quality by the deadline.

    Focusing on projects can also compromise architectural integrity. For example ...

    I don't see why it has to be the case. A well planned project executed by competent people would not draw anything like the example given in the article. Again, we should never use these examples to mislead the reader into thinking something is not needed because of these bad outcomes where the actual reasons lies somewhere else.

    Product Centric development does not exclude management of resources nor people. Product Centric development (or rather Value Centric Product Development) focus on business value but business value also tied tightly to the market, thus time, and delivery of value requires resources and therefore management. You can dissolve these functionalities into your team and call them whatever you like, but the role of Project Management is still there and needed, unless the available resources are infinite relative to your development needs. Then may be you should try a bigger development project?

    --
    No sic due to sic called a sic leave today, said it's sic.

  52. A good management attack ... by Ihlosi · · Score: 1

    A good management attack can utterly destroy any project.

  53. This is a rhetorical questions.. by dschiptsov · · Score: 1

    LIke any other kind of parasites management ruins the ecosystem in which it lives. Linux kernel has no management, only reasonable set of rules and procedures.

  54. The effort, the damn effort. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It takes a lot of effort to create and maintain a project plan. And the end result is that it is used by management to beat us bloody.

  55. I don't do software dev but this sounds familiar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "In addition, learning is essentially a nonlinear process; it involves trying things that don't work in order to discover what does work. You might see linear progress for a while, but you don't know what you don't know, so there will be apparent setbacks. It is from these setbacks that one learns the truth about the system -- what is really needed to make it work, to make it usable, and to make a difference for the users and the business. In other words, the dirty little secret of software development is that projects don't really exist."

    This describes the process of IT, not just software dev. In every IT job I have had, I was not trained in the specifics going in. I had a degree and an (at the time) cert in demand, but always seemed to get hired for jobs that used similar but different products. I was often on my own, so I was the teacher, the student, the system designer and my own mentor. I did a TON of what Mr. Lowe is talking about. The similarity is that you still have the "how long will this take? When will it be done?" pressure leaning on you in some way, shape or form. You learn to give very very long estimation times so if/when things work out the first time, you look like a hero.

  56. Probably something beyond the project will come up by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > For the next sprint, you use as likelely doable number the actual completed SP from thr current/just finished sprint.

    We're partially in agreement. I said project management should see this team does about 98 points per sprint.

    The team likely does some points that aren't their current main project - a few points supporting last month's project, for example. Some companies include points for things like annual compliance training, which is not part of this project. So we can expect that some of what gets done will not be part of this project.

    Also, there is how much will LIKELY be done and how much they can PROMISE. If you're telling your biggest customer, or even top brass at your own large company, when the project will be done, you should give a conservative estimate, thinking "we can do at least 85 points. Probably around 97, but at least 85, so let's assume 85 in the plan we present to the board." It's far better to complete a project ahead of schedule than to behind schedule.

  57. Re:Probably something beyond the project will come by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Some companies include points for things like annual compliance training, which is not part of this project.
    But that would be wrong, see below.

    Probably around 97, but at least 85, so let's assume 85 in the plan we present to the board."
    Then you are cheating yourself, and never will learn the benefits of agile software development.
    And, to my frist quote: how do you sell the extra points to your top brass or customer? That does not make any sense at all to have anything with points in a sprint that is not related to the project.

    If you can not do your 95 SP, because your team is busy doing other things, then don't give those other things points, but substract that from your sprint velocity, do 60 SP instead of 95 and tell the management: look here! We can not work with 95 SP because we get extra work load that does not belong to the project.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  58. All Scrum is Bollocks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All Scrum is Bollocks

  59. ALWAYS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    YES

  60. Re:Project Management Exists to Please Shareholder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you for this....