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Spanish Court Orders Google To Delete App Used For Catalan Independence Vote (reuters.com)

From a report: Catalonia's High Court on Friday ordered Google to delete an application that it said Catalan separatists were using to spread information about a disputed independence vote this Sunday. The court said the "On Votar 1-Oct" application on the Google Play smartphone app store opposed an order in September from Spain's Constitutional Court to suspend the referendum while it determined its legality. The court also ordered Google to block any future applications developed by the gmail address "Onvotar1oct@gmail.com', according to a written ruling. Nobody at Google in Spain was immediately available to comment.

118 comments

  1. decentralize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can we get this app on the blockchain already?

    1. Re:decentralize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      By "decentralize", do you mean like what has happened with git, where nearly all git users have centralized on GitHub because it's damn near impractical to use decentralized systems?

      And what the fuck would stop a government from requesting that the blockchain client app be removed from app stores, or otherwise deeming such an application illegal to use? Nothing! Nothing at all!

      "Blockchain" is a lot like the Rust programming language. It sounds so great to the dumb, but anyone with even just an ounce of intelligence sees right through the bullshit.

    2. Re:decentralize by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

      Absolutely. We need core information infrastructure that is extraterritorial (distributed around the planet, fully encrypted) and the providers of such infrastructure need to not be trying to make money by staying friendly with all the governments of the world. Google would be in a conflict of interest here. We need to avoid this kind og situation by changing the architecture to route around this kind of censorship.

      --

      Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    3. Re: decentralize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whatever. Why does ruling the referendum "illegal" have anything to do with the app? If it was done on paper would they outlaw pen and paper? Retarded.

    4. Re:decentralize by mikael · · Score: 1

      Then it seem we just need thousands of small servers, each of which back up random subsets of each others data, and performs a small amount of search queries.

      --
      Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
    5. Re:decentralize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, you can run a voting app completely on the blockchain. there is no way stopping it. yes, you can make anything illegal but that is all you can actually do about it. maybe shut down the internet? also don't forget to block satellites because they are broadcasting the blockchain... the truth is out there as agent mulder used to say.

    6. Re: decentralize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just the actions of a despotic government, wait until Trump starts demanding the same to shut down opposition

    7. Re:decentralize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Github is an amazing example of an insidious centralization of the decentralized.

      Consider: Does your employer use GitHub? Do you know what would happen to your ability to work for them if your account got flagged (perhaps by an automated system) for breaching the Terms of Service? Would you have difficulty if you needed to submit a pull request or issue for open source software? What would happen on your next job interview when someone asked to see your code on GitHub?

    8. Re: decentralize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well, Obama provided him with a spectacular template.

    9. Re:decentralize by newcastlejon · · Score: 2

      Legal problems like this aren't solved by technology; the Catalans could conceivably vote however they want but it won't matter one bit if the courts ignore the result.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    10. Re: decentralize by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Shareaza is the centralized app for decentralized networks, oddly enough.

    11. Re: decentralize by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Then: War The more you tighten your grip the more control slips through your fingers.

    12. Re: decentralize by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      Judicial tyranny is one of the great problems of our age. The very idea of "fair", "impartial" courts is a utopian fantasy with no basis is historical reality.

  2. That's because Spain is a LUDDITE country! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Only apps can app apps, and this app lets modern app appers app apps while apping other apps!

    Apps!

  3. 125 Bday by GNious · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Gotta love how Spain is celebrating Franco's 125th BDay.

    1. Re:125 Bday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gotta love how Spain is celebrating Franco's 125th BDay.

      Say what? He was born on December 4.

    2. Re:125 Bday by ccguy · · Score: 2

      Gotta love how Spain is celebrating Franco's 125th BDay.

      How how the rest of Europe are having fun watching the show instead of saying something...

    3. Re:125 Bday by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      What should Europe say? Butt in on the local problems of a country? Nothing here is happening that is against any EU laws, and I'm not sure the rest of Europe really gives too much of a damn.

    4. Re:125 Bday by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      I thought the EU required basic protections of things like free speech, in addition to granting Brussels the power to regulate eggplant purpleness!

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    5. Re:125 Bday by ccguy · · Score: 2

      What should Europe say? Butt in on the local problems of a country? Nothing here is happening that is against any EU laws, and I'm not sure the rest of Europe really gives too much of a damn.

      This is not a local problem. Not at all. Lots of what's happening here is against what the EU is supposed to stand for, by the way.

    6. Re:125 Bday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Everyone should stand up and voice their opposition. the EU is more than happy to standup and scream when non EU countries try and oppress free speech.

    7. Re:125 Bday by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      free speech and EU? lol!

    8. Re:125 Bday by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I thought the EU required basic protections of things like free speech

      They do. No one is being arrested or impeded from speaking in any way they want. The EU also places restrictions on things like the rule of law. e.g. the Spanish Constitution which with a ruling from the high court upholds the fact that a local referendum on a national government issue is illegal. The only people who are being arrested are Catalan officials and people attempting to hold the poll, something that would probably come with the EU's blessing in upholding the law.

      in addition to granting Brussels the power to regulate eggplant purpleness!

      The EU never regulated any eggplant colours, but since I assume you're taking a jab at the supposed banana bendyness regulations let me give you a non-Daily Mail version of what happened.

      The EU never regulated nor banned any banana of any shape. What they did do was regulate how member states may be describe and market banana grades and qualities. They did this because some member states with climates not suited to growing bananas were growing them and marketing them to their own people with certain quality descriptions that didn't meet any international trade requirements. Note the key words there "international trade". All the EU rules did was force member states to describe bananas in the same way locally as they would be required to if they sold them to e.g. the USA.

      A law saying you can't lie to your local population about the quality of goods sounds quite reasonable to me. As for the regulations on fruit, all EU regulations on fruit are matched to those for international trade. So if Brussels restricted some food, chances are it's the fault of a non-EU country.

    9. Re:125 Bday by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Lots of what is happening here is exactly what the EU stands for. e.g. Upholding of court decisions and the local constitution.

      Did you have some actual examples in mind or were you hoping I'd just buy the word "lots" and change my mind?

    10. Re:125 Bday by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      It is not much discussed in the media, but people watch it eagerly like they watched the Scotland vote for secession from the UK a few years back.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    11. Re:125 Bday by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      How how the rest of Europe are having fun watching the show instead of saying something...

      Excuse me, the UK said something. It was along the lines of "This is just one of the reasons why you can't have Gibraltar back, you noon-napping bunch of dago cow-torturers".

      When I say the UK, I mean Boris.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  4. Well, Google wasn't expecting . . . by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 4, Funny

    . . . the Spanish Inquisition!

    Their main weapons are fear, surprise, and a Catalonia's High Court order for Google to delete an application!

    Yes, "High" Court, indeed.

    --
    Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    1. Re:Well, Google wasn't expecting . . . by ccguy · · Score: 1

      . . . the Spanish Inquisition!

      They definitely know as much about internet as Torquemada...

    2. Re:Well, Google wasn't expecting . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Toques are mada with genuine Saskatchewan fur seal

  5. Just make a web site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Why an app? Just make a web site.

    1. Re: Just make a web site by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The App was done after the government closed more than a 100 mirrors of the website.

  6. Nobody was immediately available? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody at Google in Spain was immediately available to comment.

    That's like saying "I sent an email to some random address and in the last 5' nobody answered"?

    Seems like someone trying to disguise irresponsible reporting...

    1. Re:Nobody was immediately available? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "We're sorry, Spain is now closed. Please call back after 8 a.m. Monday."

  7. Gotta grow up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Google (Alphabet), facebook, Yahoo! etc .... are all gonna have to grow up and realize the World is a very complicated place and is nothing like the little bubbles they live in.

    So....suck it up and be prepared because it's gonna get worse.

    And .... Google has become Evil. Sergey Brin and Larry Page ((Drs. Frankensteins)), your monster is on the loose.

    1. Re:Gotta grow up. by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      You mean the monsters that thwart censorship and destroy government's delusion that they can dictate what people may read, write and ponder?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Gotta grow up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You insinuate that somehow this is a bad thing

    3. Re: Gotta grow up. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No the monster that allows any government to control what people read, write and think and not just the government that controls the land they live on.

    4. Re: Gotta grow up. by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      It is. Grow up.

  8. Lowest Common Deniminator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    One of the unavoidable pitfalls of being a global company is that you have to follow the laws of each and every country you do business in. In the end, you have to follow the most restrictive rules in order to avoid sanctions in any part of the globe.

    Once Google gave into one countries demands (say like China), they no longer have a leg to stand on when the next country comes along with it's demands. Just the latest round for Google and just the next round for other global tech companies like Facebook and Twitter who now face EU sanctions.

  9. Ever notice something about Europe? by TheZeitgeist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Namely, that whenever news comes out of Europe about anything tech-internet, it almost always is about court actions, fines, and the like. Hardly ever does something appear about a European startup, or how such-and-such out of Europe is transforming an industry, or how the Europeans are taking over something. I saw article this morning about a French company that was apparently pretty good at machine vision...and how Apple was buying them.

    1. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nokia was awesome like 12 years ago...Europeans are still very proud of this.

    2. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by CannonballHead · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or maybe the US-centric news site, Slashdot, just doesn't pay attention to European startups as much? Notice, too, that this particular court action was about essentially a US based company. In other words, it may affect the US, too. Same with how Apple was buying a company; didn't make the news until Apple came into play. ;)

    3. Re: Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This i about censorship and freedom, Europe is allowing Spain on the persecution of ideas, it does not look important but it is a huge step backwards. Remember that Europe and Spain was fascist not so long ago.

    4. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

      Hardly ever does something appear about a European startup, or how such-and-such out of Europe is transforming an industry, or how the Europeans are taking over something.

      Yeah... not being in English causes a real disconnect for the US-centric crowd.

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    5. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh come on! Why do you want to ruin a good bias-confirmation with the availability fallacy?

    6. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound like someone with some serious inferiority complex. Relax, we love you despite your shortcomings.

    7. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Getting acquired by Apple is a legit exit that happens to many American companies. So, it seems that your French machine vision company is an example of how the Europeans did out-compete some Americans in tech. I'll also point out that the entire AI fad was driven by DeepMind (in London) and based on research at Canadian universities (for MS's latest AI breakthroughs).

      Long story short, Europe seems to have fewer "I'll ignore the law because it's on the Internet" companies (Uber, AirBnB), but still some promising tech.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    8. Re: Ever notice something about Europe? by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. If it were about persecution of ideas, Puigdemont would have been barred from public office months ago. What Spain is doing is cracking down on spending public money and using the personal data of millions of citizens to carry out actions which have been clearly ruled illegal by the supreme court.

    9. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because we have so many regulations and laws you'd be nuts to run a consumer-facing Internet company in Europe.

      By the time you've hired enough lawyers to assess all the regulations you have to follow you've already burned through your capital. Even if there was anything left, you'd be so hamstrung your product wouldn't be able to compete with the rest of the world.

    10. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As someone from Germany: he's not wrong. There are no big startups here. They simply cannot compete.

      High taxes, tons of reguations, etc. make sure our startups never get big. We don't have the benefit of making a shitton of money in easier markets like the US and then tackling regulatory nightmares like EU countries.

    11. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Hentes · · Score: 1

      Because once a company becomes succesful enough to gain news recognition they are no longer a European company but a global one. The same is true for "American" megacorps, but the patriotism of the editors here prevents them from realising that. They think of IBM as an American company, but T-Mobile as a 'global' one. It's not like there weren't recent stories about apps used by some colonials with a certain ideology getting banned from app stores, it just wasn't specifically pointed out that it happened in America.

    12. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Namely, that whenever news comes out of Europe about anything tech-internet, it almost always is about court actions, fines, and the like. Hardly ever does something appear about a European startup, or how such-and-such out of Europe is transforming an industry, or how the Europeans are taking over something. I saw article this morning about a French company that was apparently pretty good at machine vision...and how Apple was buying them.

      That's something called observation bias. There are plenty of positive stories from Europe, in some cases even about startups, AND covered on Slashdot Mind you we don't expect the USA to get too much coverage of European startups and innovations. Your culture is so fundamentally different than many startups in Europe work their way down to Australia before they even bother trying the USA market which is fundamentally different from the rest of the western world. Plus with double the population here there really isn't that much rush.

      But hey the view through your lens is pretty cool too. America can keep it's supposed innovation and industrial transformation built on the backs of outsourcing and fucking over the people. We'll just sit here eating cheese and sipping wine.

      Maybe if you did some research into Europe from something other than a USA based news site with a mostly USA readership with stories submitted mostly about USA based companies you may get mocked less about your sheltered view of the world.

    13. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There is something to what you say, although there are many factors at work, and others have rightly pointed out the home focus of US news as one element. Other relevant elements include:

      • The US is a market about 75% as large as the EU with a single common language (more or less - I know there are some immigrants who don't have a high level of English). Localising your product to 20 languages takes time and money, so it's slower to gather a critical mass.
      • Continuing on the fragmentation theme, have you noticed that whenever news comes out of the US about anything tech-internet, it's almost always about advertising companies? (Often spun as social media, but that's not their real business). Advertising to a large relatively homogenous market is more attractive than advertising to a large but highly fragmented market.
      • You mention startups. I'm convinced that the key to Silicon Valley's success is venture capital for startups. There isn't the same VC culture in Europe. Here in Spain, for example, people with lots of money seem to prefer to put it into construction and tourism, which are low-risk good-return, rather than high-risk maybe-high-return startups.
      • The previous point is not well enough recognised. I was hired as a programmer for a project which was receiving funding as part of an EU mega-project called Future Internet. The key concept behind FI as I understand it from the immensely boring documents I read is the idea that the reason that Silicon Valley is successful and all the big social media companies are from the US is the microservices libraries they use. Solution: build European microservices and a European cloud and fund lots of startups to the tune of 50k or 200k to build products using the microservices. I almost cried, especially when I saw that some of the microservices I was expected to use were openly available products from the US with minor configuration tweaks. (WSO2 Enterprise Service Bus, for example. Some Italian consultant got paid to produce a mediator service and whacked together an ESB VM with 100 lines of config changes and some semi-comprehensible documentation which oversold what it did). I came to the cynical conclusion that the real reason for the project existing was to channel money from the north of the Eurozone to the south in order to help keep it together.
    14. Re: Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forget... all those American companies are actually Irish

    15. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many successful start-ups quickly create offices in East or West Coast, so becoming "American" companies. They might get bought soon after or before, as the other poster said.

    16. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The irony is that you're probably are typing that on an internet line which is probably slower and far more expensive than what the average EU citizen has access to.

    17. Re: Ever notice something about Europe? by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Isn't Apple based in Ireland now?

    18. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      They think of IBM as an American company, but T-Mobile as a 'global' one.

      T-Mobile is a publicly traded American company. They are headquartered in Bellevue, Washington. Deutsche Telekom is the majority shareholder, but that doesn't make it a German company. I'm not disagreeing with your point, but your example is pretty poor.

    19. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, nobody has done anything worthwhile in tech in Europe. The French minitel system wasn't essentially the first large scale consumer computer network rolled out in 1978, a Brit certainly didn't invent the web when working at a joint European lab.

      It wasn't a Finnish company that almost single-handedly made mobile phones a ubiquitous consumer item, or a Swedish one that invented the technology by which most devices still talk to one another over short range, based on tech invented by a German and a Pole. And it certainly wasn't a European firm that designed the chips in 95% of the world's smartphones - that'd be daft. And what have the Italians ever done for wireless communications, I ask you?

      No, thankfully the entire information age is built on groundbreaking American ideas, like rounded corners, patent trolling and exploiting the poor whilst calling it the "gig economy" - brilliance!

    20. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by gravewax · · Score: 1

      That is more to do with US reporting than anything else. The US is very ego-centric/self focused, news that does not relate to the US or a US country will not even rate a mention unless it is of epic proportions, blame the press or the average US persons attitude towards the rest of the world.

    21. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The US market is bigger than the EU, but a pretty good margin. And it's also interesting to note that pretty much EVERY member of the EU has nationally recognized/required languages, yes the US does not (it chooses to standardize on English, not by legislation but by culture and ease-of-functioning).

    22. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I moved to Europe 10 years ago to work for a startup. I'm still there, still in the same job (with much of the same team, even), but now I work for the American megacorp that bought out the American megacorp that bought out my European employer.

    23. Re: Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it seems to be a pretty good one. T-Mobile has since decades been the mobile arm of Deutsche Telekom IN GERMANY. The T-Mobile you are talking about is only the US version.
      What you said is like saying Apple is an Irish company, just because they also have a company registered in Ireland.

    24. Re: Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To a text based website... we're not bootlegging movies, do even if it's true, who cares?

    25. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      ...and this stinging criticism, this look-down-the-nose sneering is why America is drawing back from the world. Why bother to help a bunch of ungrateful assholes? Better to take care of our own people for a couple of generations, let the world take care of itself for a while.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    26. Re: Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it isn't. T-Mobile is a fully integrated division of Deutsche Telekom AG headquartered in Bonn, NRW. You seem to be confusing T-Mobile with its US subsidiary T-Mobile US.

    27. Re: Ever notice something about Europe? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are tons of startups in Germany, possibly more than anywhere else. Since many of them develop actual technology, they may not get as much media attention as internet service startups, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

    28. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by Zumbs · · Score: 1

      Hardly ever does something appear about a European startup, or how such-and-such out of Europe is transforming an industry

      Spotify and Deezer as music steaming. SoundCloud for music sharing. Skype for communications. MineCraft in computer games. A fast duckduckgo search found this if you are interested in more examples of European tech (the article is from 2013). I suspect that the reason that you do not hear so much about European tech companies is that slashdot is US based and, surprise, surprise, also US centric in its reporting.

      --
      The truth may be out there, but lies are inside your head
    29. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      And ... we learn our relaxed views because we start sipping wine with 14 to 16, and can have a beer at the evening, too!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    30. Re:Ever notice something about Europe? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Too right! Actual beer. Not that weird yellow coloured water that the Americans drink too.

    31. Re: Ever notice something about Europe? by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      Have you seen how little the euro capitalists pay programmers? It's no surprise at all that their software industry is puny and worthless, despite having a well educated workforce and a huge internal market.

  10. I'll let Woody tell it..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://youtu.be/jKVnur5DkdI

  11. Unsure about this by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Am I the only one that thinks the timing of part of Spain wanting to break away and become a (tiny little) independent country is rather.. susupicious? Especially considering how much chaos Russia has been covertly fomenting pretty much everywhere it can, to try to destabilize NATO countries? They influenced the U.S. election, they influenced the BREXIT vote, who's to say they aren't influencing Catalonians as well?

    1. Re:Unsure about this by ag0ny · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Am I the only one that thinks the timing of part of Spain wanting to break away and become a (tiny little) independent country is rather.. susupicious?

      Yes, you're probably the only one. The movement for Catalonia's independence isn't something new. It's been going on for three centuries. There has always been a certain proportion of the Catalan population who wanted independence from Spain, but in the last 10 years the Spanish government has been restricting our autonomy, attempting to take over our institutions and instigating a wave of hate against Catalans and Catalonia in order to gain votes in the rest of Spain.

      This is what has fueled the pro-independence sentiment in so many of us. Russia has nothing to do with it.

    2. Re:Unsure about this by pjt33 · · Score: 2

      At least one Spanish newspaper claimed a few days ago that this was happening. But as to the timing, this has been brewing for a few years. I think it's better explained by a comment I saw yesterday (and I wish I could remember where to credit it properly) that as a universal rule of thumb, nationalisms get a big popularity boost in times of economic difficulty.

    3. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a feeling you're right. We're going to find out about a bunch of Macedonians and Russians posting from Internet Research Agency claiming to be outraged Catalans. But apparently "muh both sides" means we should only be caring about irrelevant Clinton stuff from a failed yesteryear campaign. They have nothing to say for their constant trespasses except "but but ... correct the record?"

      Meanwhile they continue to drive these wedge campaigns and stir the pot wherever their (often bought) accounts happen to pop up. Suddenly WikiLeaks and Snowden seem to really care about Catalonia, and are even offering to "host referendum servers" (LOL!)

      Absolutely transparent.

    4. Re:Unsure about this by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      My understanding is that three centuries ago the movement was for the restoration of the furs. I would characterise that goal as a return to federalism rather than a bid for independence. Is that a disagreement in interpretation or were there two separate movements with different goals?

    5. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but in the last 10 years the Spanish government has been restricting our autonomy, attempting to take over our institutions and instigating a wave of hate against Catalans and Catalonia in order to gain votes in the rest of Spain.

      What are you smoking? That must be good shit. You got all that backwards.

      Over the years, the Spanish government has been giving more and more autonomy to nationalist to get their support in the Congress.

      The Spanish government has been transferring more and more competences to nationalist including those of education.

      Meanwhile the Catalan Government using these competences in education. was instigating a wave of hate even in school children against the rest of Spaniards and Spain.

      Children which weren't even allowed to learn in Spanish or speak Spanish in the school.

      All in order to gain votes in Catalonia blaming Madrid of all their own ROBBING and bad mismanagement and poor spending.

      And Russia has nothing to do with the hosting of the pages with the stolen census which had to be blocked at the national isp level?

      You didn't get even one straight. Three centuries? Get an history book. One not published by the Catalan Government that is.

    6. Re:Unsure about this by guacamole · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's just you and your sick mind.

      No, so far has not been a proof of Russian _influence_ in the US election, no proof that Russians broke into DNC server or podesta's email account, and no proof that Russians leaked anything to wikileaks. All we have is a bunch of allegations by highly politicized heads of our dear three letter agencies. Funny how CIA/NSA/etc were caught red handed doing nasty shit like a million times, and how they were always the least trusted US agencies, but as soon as they make statements specially designed to sink the Trump administration, every leftie in the USA is now cherishing our always trusted and honest "intelligence community" which never illegally spied on Americans, never tortured anyone, and never provided false evidence for the Iraq war. Please, what a joke.

      Do me a favor, next time there is big stink in your bedroom, look under the bed and see if there is a Russian troll or Putin himself hiding there!

    7. Re: Unsure about this by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Don't trust the MSM.

    8. Re:Unsure about this by ag0ny · · Score: 1

      You're wrong. I'm Catalan and grew up in Barcelona. Most of my family and friends live there.

      There has never been a wave of hate against the rest of Spain in Catalonia. There's discontent now about the current government of Spain because of the many cases of blatant corruption, but that's a thing in all Spain, not just Catalonia. On the other side, there has always been a certain amount of aggression against Catalans coming from the rest of Spain. This became worse when in 2006 the current government of Spain instigated a campaign of disinformation and hate against Catalans with the objective of taking away the Estatut (a set of laws giving Catalonia a certain amount of autonomy). They used this campaign to gain more votes from other regions in Spain.

      Children in Catalonia learn both Spanish and Catalan at school. This has always been the same. We grow up speaking both languages natively because both are official languages in all Catalonia. Spanish has never been restricted in Catalan schools, but the Catalan language has: it was prohibited during Franco's regime, and the current government (formed by ex-members or relatives of the dictator's circle) is trying hard to restrict its usage again.

      I don't know where you're getting your information from. Probably from the state-owned media, because you're just parroting back all the propaganda coming from Madrid.

    9. Re: Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately I've lived in Catalonia and seen the abuses of Catalan Government first hand where the non nationalists Catalans are marked and badly mistreated, more with every succesive nationalist Government as their competences grew.

    10. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      taking away the Estatut (a set of laws giving Catalonia a certain amount of autonomy).

      Catalonia under the Spanish Constitution of 1978 always had more autonomy and self-government under the statute than many sates.

      The 2006 Estatut where the Catalan Government tried a power grab of such length as to pave the ground to later claim independence defining Catalonia as a nation? Which was obviously was ruled Unconstitutional.

      Spanish has never been restricted in Catalan schools

      Alright, The children of Catalonia can only study in Spanish in 34 private schools

      the current government (formed by ex-members or relatives of the dictator's circle)

      Oh yes, I forget that if there are someone whom keeps the +40 years dead dictator alive and well are the nationalist. What make those supposed ex-members now, 80?

      is trying hard to restrict its usage again.

      Restrict its usage again, as in how? Allowing those parents that prefer that their childrens learn in Spanish instead of being forced to school them in Catalan?

      The Spanish law says that Catalans have the obligation to know and the right to use Spanish and Catalan, but the Catalan Government only allows to use Catalan in schools.

      Did you ever read a History book?

    11. Re:Unsure about this by ag0ny · · Score: 1

      You’re wrong again.

      The 2006 Estatut where the Catalan Government tried a power grab of such length as to pave the ground to later claim independence defining Catalonia as a nation? Which was obviously was ruled Unconstitutional.

      Bullshit. This Estatut was approved by the previous government of Spain, and later ruled unconstitutional by the current ruling party. The funny thing is, the same provisions that were ruled unconstitutional for Catalonia are allowed for granted Basque Country, Spain’s other autonomous region.

      Alright, The children of Catalonia can only study in Spanish in 34 private schools

      Public education is bilingual in both Spanish and Catalan because both are official. If you want Spanish-only education then sure, go to one of those private schools.

      Oh yes, I forget that if there are someone whom keeps the +40 years dead dictator alive and well are the nationalist. What make those supposed ex-members now, 80?

      Rajoy is 62. Sáez de Santamaría is 47, I think. The chief of national police is 53. All of them are family of members of Franco’s regime. The whole PP political party was AP before (Alianza Popular), the Patty created by Fraga Iribarne, one of Franco’s ministers. Just to mention a few.

      You’ve been watching too much right-wing propaganda. Stop spreading their bullshit.

    12. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Spanish law says that Catalans have the obligation to know and the right to use Spanish and Catalan, but the Catalan Government only allows to use Catalan in schools.

      I am not Catalan but it's too easy and not true. Catalonia is the only place in the world where Occitan (Aranese) is also an official language and where you have Occitan schools.
      Neither Spain and certainly not France will ever respect the human rights and accept that us the Occitan we can exist, Catalonia is the only one
      FYI in France we are forced to learn French and French culture at schools.

      So yes I don't care if a few million people replace Spanish (spoken everywhere in America from north to south pole) by Catalan and Occitan; that would be great for diversity like it is with the tons of window managers on Linux.

      As usual in this part of the world the losers are always the same, the old minorities. The central governments of Madrid or Paris will never give us any right, and as soon as some laws give us some hope, then the governments attack them in court.

      Did you ever read a History book?

      Clearly you didn't too, both France and Spain are used to impose their view, language... by force and massacres. Look to history from the Cathares (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism) up to 'recently' with Franco.

      There are many places in Europe where human rights do not apply and Europe resigned a long time ago from its principles of freedom; by the way Europe is not a democracy since the main authority is not even elected. The only goal of Europe is to get money from American companies, ensure the domination of German economy and enforce the right size of the the eggplants.

    13. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ruled unconstitutional by the current ruling party.

      Wrong. Spain is a demoracy with organic separation of powers. Really are so deluded?

      Public education is bilingual in both Spanish and Catalan because both are official.

      False. Only Catalan is used as teaching language in schools in Catalonia and all other school related activities.

      Is the pro-nationalist Government newspaper La Vanguardia more of your taste?
      Parlament rejects schools that offer Spanish and Catalan as teaching languages

      The Calatan Government even dare to disobey the Catalan Courts.

      Ultimatum of the TSJC to the Generalitat so that the Castilian is working language in the school

      Rajoy is 62. Sáez de Santamaría is 47, I think. The chief of national police is 53. All of them are family of members of Franco’s regime.

      What makes them, 20, 5 and 11 when Franco died. Even if had relatives working for Franco it's their fault and so be punished for it? And all the rest of the elected members of the Government with them?

      And you are who is talking about instigating a hate campaign against Catalans?

      Who's spreading bullshit?

    14. Re:Unsure about this by Uberbah · · Score: 1

      Keep fucking the Franco chicken, AC.

    15. Re:Unsure about this by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      Don't you worry--you'll get that pesky moose and squirrel some day, I'm sure.

      Hugs to Natasha,

      Z.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    16. Re:Unsure about this by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      You're seeing TEH ROOSHINS under your bed, boy. Here, with zero evidence, pure conjecture, nothing but confirmation bias in play, a person finds it must have been TEH ROOSHINS despite the existence of Catalan separatism for centuries. I used to think intelligent people couldn't be duped by such obvious canards, but the last 10 months of mass media attention proves you really can implant ideas in people's heads. The dolchstoss-legende planted by Podesta the day after the election has taken root and borne fruit. It's here to stay.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    17. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spanish has never been restricted in Catalan schools

      Alright, The children of Catalonia can only study in Spanish in 34 private schools

      Lol. Catalan might be the language used to teach most courses (outside of Spanish and English classes) but given that 90% of all media here is in Spanish (books, TV, movies, etc.) for the most part everyone finishes their education speaking both languages perfectly fine, irrespective if their home language is Spanish or Catalan. You might be able to find a farmer somewhere out in the boonies that has trouble speaking Spanish, but in the same regard you also get inner city people that have trouble with Catalan despite having lived in Catalonia their entire lives.

      Those 34 private schools are for Spanish-only teaching, the same way the children of diplomats might go to an international school to learn everything in English.

    18. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Spanish government has been restricting our autonomy, attempting to take
      > over our institutions and instigating a wave of hate against Catalans and
      > Catalonia in order to gain votes in the rest of Spain

      What a load of crap. You should stop reading Racó Català.

    19. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Seriously?

      Catalonia's Estatut of 1979 under the Spanish Constitution states that the Aranese dialect is official in the Aran Valley and to be taught and protected.

      The Catalan Government doesn't give a fuck about Occitan other than to construct the nationalist myth of the Catalan Countries which includes parts of France, Aragon, Valencia, Balearic Islands, Andorra and parts of Italy.

      There are not a single public school in Catalonia using Occitan as working language and the only language used in teaching in Catalonia is the Catalan.

      Can you link to any public school where children are taught in Occitan?

      I find it surprising that as Aranese you could defend the Catalan Government when the only thing that has done is to declare it official in all of Catalonia while just 25% of the Aranese population (and close to 0% in the rest of Catalonia) is able to write Aranese because the Catalan Government forces the Catalan as the only teaching language in schools in Catalonia, including the Aran Valley.

      Are you even an Aranese local or just another shill?

      Did you ever read a History book?

      Clearly you didn't too, both France and Spain are used to impose their view, language... by force and massacres. Look to history from the Cathares

      Neither France nor Spain even existed as such 7 centuries ago. May be you missed that little detail to build your victimist hate speech?

    20. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, Spanish is restricted in Catalan public schools.

      The law grants the parents the ability to choose the teaching language for their children, which is a human right.

      But the Catalan Government disobeys the Court orders requiring them to let the parents choose, since can learn on their own 'proper' Spanish on the streets?

    21. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about?

      Are then the independentists going to allow the Aranese to exert their "legitimate right to decide" and let them to secede from Catalonia?

      The Aran Valley, ready to break with an hypothetical independent Catalonia

    22. Re:Unsure about this by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of regions in Europe that sooner or later will separate from their current country and become independent, hopefully staying in the E.U.
      Catalonia, Basque, probably Mallorca (under catalan reign, but they hate that even more than the catalonians hate the rest of spain, because Catalonia forbids teaching of the native language in Mallorca, but insists they can teach their own native language in Catalonia).
      Probably Bavaria, most likely Scottland.
      Belgium might split into two, but a recent referendum voted for staying together.
      Brittany might seperate from France, probably Alsace or Loraine, too. But that is much more unlikely like separations going on in Spain and Italy.

      Keep in mind, the Spain, a typical foreigner sees, does not exist. Spain is a patchwork Kingdom with minimum 5 distinct languages and 5 dialects that are so far of from Castilian Spanish that they can be considerd their own languahe, too.

      Over the course of the next 50 years I expect a shift in balance from countries power into two directions: more power to the EU, and more power to the regions, at cost of the countries power.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    23. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There you go, read about Spain.

      Spain exist as such since 1479 when the Christian kingdoms of Castile and Aragon completed the Reconquista in 1492, over 5 centuries ago. And all those languages but Basque are basically the same as Spanish with strong localisms and accents. Of course every nationalist wants their own language recognized as distinct and lobby the shit out of anything needed to get it even if as the Catalan and Valencian are virtually and practically identical languagesl.

      So if Spain doesn't exist, does USA exist, or Germany and many others? Nonsense.

      Nationalisms are the cancer of Europe and nowhere in the EU are seen with good eyes.

    24. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who the actual FUCK do you think you are to write a comment like that? If you spoke to me like that in person you'd get punched in the nose, repeatedly, so how about you take your shitty comments and shove them up your ass?

    25. Re:Unsure about this by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Oh for fuck's sake. Putin is having his people do whatever they can to destabilize NATO and the U.S. and any other country that would stand in the way of him building a new Russian empire because he misses the days of the USSR and the KGB, and I'm far from the only person who sees these things going on. How can you be so goddamned blind?

    26. Re:Unsure about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      3 centuries my ass, it's been here for the last 20 years, please don't help spread bullshit like that.

  12. Confusing wording by Sumus+Semper+Una · · Score: 1

    For anyone else who may have been confused by the wording in "(the app) opposed an order in September from Spain's Constitutional Court to suspend the referendum while it determined its legality," the legality in question is in regards to the referendum, not the app. The fight over the app is just an extension over the fight in Spain over whether Catalonia is legally allowed to have a referendum for a vote of independence from Spain.

  13. Google's response (if they have balls) by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    A big splash screen for Spain reading

    Dear Spain,
    Google services have to be suspended due to the Catalan vote for independence. Please check in again on (voteday+1), the day after it's held.

    Yours,
    Google

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  14. If I were Catalonian... by jcr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...and I was on the fence about secession, this shit would make me 100% for it.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
    1. Re:If I were Catalonian... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, that's what the catalans are always spewing. "Oh, I was't pro-independence before, but NOW I am". Bullshit.

    2. Re:If I were Catalonian... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I do think it is quite fair to 'put a freeze' on this sort of thing if there is a court case underway on the legality of the vote.

      Let the courts decide first, *then* have the vote. Even if the court ruled it illegal.

    3. Re:If I were Catalonian... by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Well, I think we should have waited for the court to decide what we named our children before we submitted our birth certificate forms.

      Also maybe we should have checked with the court that we voted for a legal candidate in the last election.

      That argument about the ideal size of government? Maybe the court should be figuring that out.

      You know in Soviet Russia, the geniuses of the court helped people figure out where they should live and how they should dress and all that.

      Courts understand all these things, you know.

  15. So Google...Don't Be Evil...How's that workin'? by argStyopa · · Score: 1

    So...are you a good corporate citizen, or a corporate tool?

    Are you about freedom and open expression? Or are you going to toe the line when it might cost you some of your $billion$?

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:So Google...Don't Be Evil...How's that workin'? by gravewax · · Score: 1

      While Spanish government are being gigantic cocks and I hate google too. Google can only do so much, it won't be billions that it costs you when you disobey direct court orders it is executives in jail and as much as I hate google I don't think it is reasonable to expect them to put their staff in that position no matter the greater good.

  16. Re:US DOJ INDICTS DONALD TRUMP JR. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    For those of you who are challenged by URL de-obfuscators: Yes, that's a goatse link.

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  17. Re: So Google...Don't Be Evil...How's that workin' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's the weekend. They can take their time and pull the app on Monday, problem solved.
    Admittedly it doesn't say if the court order said by when they had to do it and no undue delay would be legal, but some time for checking the request is not unreasonable.

  18. Re: Ever notice something about Slashdot? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is indeed a clear bias in the selection of articles on Slashdot.

  19. Re: So Google...Don't Be Evil...How's that workin' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Complying within next working day seems completely reasonable to me, never mind that the point is moot by then

  20. Hypocrisy, much? by ShamblerBishop · · Score: 1

    Imagine how ape-shit US citizens would be, if California was engaging in an Independence vote right now?

  21. That is simply because US ignores advanced EU tech by ffkom · · Score: 1

    ... to a very extreme extent.

    Just to mention one recent example: There's an online translator that dwarfs the likes of Google's or Microsoft's translators made by a relatively small German company - and even though EU press covered this comprehensively, a site like Slashdot did not even mention this.

  22. Re: So Google...Don't Be Evil...How's that workin' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I doubt a court would see it that way, especially as for a company like google they have people manning systems 24/7.

  23. Spain=Turkey? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This kinds of censorship is out of place on the 21st century Europe. If they won't let Turkey join the EU, maybe they should kick Spain out.