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US Prisons Have a Cellphone Smuggling Problem (nbcnews.com)

An anonymous reader quotes NBC: Cellphones smuggled into prisons -- enabling inmates to order murders, plan escapes, deal drugs and extort money -- have become a scourge in a bloc of states where corrections officers annually confiscate as many as one for every three inmates... In South Carolina, prison officers have found and taken one phone for every three inmates, the highest rate in the country. In Oklahoma, it's one phone for every six prisoners, the nation's second-highest rate... Cellphones are prized because they allow inmates to avoid privatized jailhouse phone and visitation services that charge up to $15 for a two-minute call home to friends and family. "Inmates call their mothers like most of us do on holidays," said Dr. John Shaffer, former executive deputy secretary for the Pennsylvania Corrections Department.

But for some, the phones serve a darker purpose. "Most of these guys are just chitchatting with their girlfriends, but some of these guys are stone-hardened criminals running criminal enterprises," said Kevin Tamez of the MPM group, a litigation consulting firm that specializes in prison security... Meth rings operated by prisoners with cellphones, some with ties to prison gangs like the Aryan Brotherhood, the Irish Mob Gang and the United Blood Nation, have been discovered in at least five Southern facilities. Phones have also played a role in breakouts, with one South Carolina inmate dialing up drone delivery of wire cutters and cash for his escape in July. Cellphones are so prevalent in the prison system, Tamez said, that "if you don't have them, you would look like a loser."

The article reports convicts have actually uploaded in-prison videos to Facebook Live and to Snapchat. "Georgia inmates used phones to take photos of themselves tying up or beating other prisoners, then texted the horrifying images to the victim's family and demanded cash."

53 of 275 comments (clear)

  1. a guard problem, too by turkeydance · · Score: 3, Insightful

    as usual, management

    1. Re: a guard problem, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      More of the idiotic one line posts from this turkeydance moron. Why doesn't this clown get modded down? The real problem here is using prisons as a source of profit, one part of which is the excessive cost of making phone calls. Lower the costs and much of the problem will go away, since many of the prisoners using cell phones for benign purposes will lose the incentive to acquire them. If prisons aren't a source of profit, that also removes the incentive to send people there for longer sentences and crimes that really shouldn't result in prison time. As usual, turkeydance has it wrong with his worthless post. Sure, the hardened criminals may still smuggle in cell phones, but most of the problem will go away if prisons stop trying to be profitable and charging excessive prices for phone calls. It also decreases the potential that a cell phone gets smuggled in for a relatively benign purpose and then ends up in the hands of someone with more nefarious goals. Lower the prices of phone calls and mod down turkeydance. Problem solved.

    2. Re: a guard problem, too by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 2

      More of the idiotic one line posts from this turkeydance moron. Why doesn't this clown get modded down?

      Mod down for what? Laziness? It's not off-topic, it's not redundant.

    3. Re: a guard problem, too by DaMattster · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, just, no. The problem is the for profit prison system. For a supposedly free nation, we incarcerate a lot of people. It's a shame none of our elected officials grasp this concept. It's gotten to the point where our own system is so corrupt that many of the folks in power should be in prison. My definition of what constitutes criminality has changed in response to our elected leadership. It's amazing how closely tied the definition of crime is to socioeconomic status.

    4. Re: a guard problem, too by markdavis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >"The problem is the for profit prison system. For a supposedly free nation, we incarcerate a lot of people. I[...] It's gotten to the point where our own system is so corrupt that many of the folks in power should be in prison"

      I agree that too many people are incarcerated and for too long (for those without violent crimes. Incarceration was supposed to be about rehabilitation, that was lost a long time ago. But that concept was lost long before "profit" prisons. If the metric for profit were shifted to people safely released without recidivism, that would change everything.

    5. Re: a guard problem, too by Lesrahpem · · Score: 5, Informative

      Years ago I spent some time incarcerated in an Ohio prison (my life's changed since then, I just want to point out I have a certain perspective about this).

      Most of the phone use I witnessed or heard about was just so people could make reasonable phone calls to family. Picture this: You've got 6 pay phones in a block housing 500 people, and the phones are only open for about 4 hours a day. It's Thanksgiving and the line to use the phone stays 30 people long. Fights happen over the phones. I have seen someone beaten by another inmate because he was on the phone for too long.

      To add insult to injury it cost like $2.50 to make a phone call, and then about $1.00 a minute and the phones would disconnect and drops calls all the time (if I remember the prices correctly).

    6. Re: a guard problem, too by Pig+Hogger · · Score: 2

      More of the idiotic one line posts from this turkeydance moron. Why doesn't this clown get modded down? The real problem here is using prisons as a source of profit

      Turkeydance is far from being a moron: he pinpointed exactly the problem using only one word: “manglement”.

      It’s the management of prisons that is the culprit, by having prisons-for-profit that charge $15 per minute for phone calls.

    7. Re: a guard problem, too by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem is the for profit prison system.

      About 8% of US inmates are in private for-profit prisons.

      South Carolina, which the TFA says has the worst problem with cellphones, has no private prisons.

      Oklahoma, listed as the second worst, does use private prisons.

      For a supposedly free nation, we incarcerate a lot of people.

      America's incarceration rate is about 4 times the first world average.

      Incarceration rates vary widely by state, and increases in the incarceration rate are not positively correlated with reductions in crime. Louisiana has the highest incarceration rate. Maine has the lowest.

    8. Re: a guard problem, too by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      Inmates that have regular communication with their families and friends have lower recidivism rates, and have fewer disciplinary problems in prison. Making phone calls and visits more difficult is very stupid public policy.

    9. Re: a guard problem, too by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

      (for those without violent crimes. Incarceration was supposed to be about rehabilitation, that was lost a long time ago.

      When was that ever part of the original concept of incarceration in the US? When the US was founded, prisons were all about punishment, not rehabilitation. Some of the most egregious examples of the times, debtors prisons, were officially removed nationally in 1833. They still exist, however, you might want to take a look. This noble thought of rehabilitation has never been an actual part of the prison system in the US. Once in, it's all about doing the time.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    10. Re: a guard problem, too by letthelightin · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They aren't in prison to be tormented, but to be kept from society for society's sake. It's called a justice department, not a vengeance department, and they aren't rehabilitating anyone.

      Everyone has basic instinctual requirements: healthy food, exercise, sensory/information input, family, social connections, & safe housing. The US prison system is a recreation of hell on earth, as that's what many if not most of the US religious population is projecting. When you do this to people, restricting their mindset to a high scarcity environment, they become animals, driven by instinct and lower thought levels.

      The US prison system majorly serves to create a criminal animal slave force, most of who shall be returned to rejoin our society, and continue their aggression against the rest of us, for lack of a better way.

      In this way, the US prison system is similarly criminal, in that it espouses violence and deprivation by force, a supreme hypocrisy, and ensures that those they have been given responsibility for will near certainly enact further violence against the people upon release.

      Our Hell on Earth of a justice system is producing demons and releasing them into our communities. Maybe we should actually provide an okay environment for those we lock away for years? Maybe we should rehabilitate them, instead of dehabilitating them, before allowing them to return to us? Don't forget, many are innocently locked away.

    11. Re: a guard problem, too by chihowa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      TFS says that most of the smuggled cell phones are just used to circumvent the expensive prison landlines, which means that any attempt at finding, removing, or monitoring smuggled phones will have to deal with all of that benign chaff.

      Just allowing the prisoners to talk to their families and girlfriends for a reasonable cost would mean that most of the phones smuggled in would be the ones used to commit crimes. Finding, removing, or monitoring their use now becomes both a worthwhile and a more manageable task.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    12. Re: a guard problem, too by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 2

      Well, I think you should be trying to rehabilitate everybody in any prison, but I am biased. If someone has veered far enough outside the lines that we feel the need to incarcerate them, shouldn't we be trying to correct that?

      Mostly, the segregation you are talking about happens by putting people in facilities with different security levels. Low level offenders go to low level facilities and hard guys go to higher level facilities. Guys with super low level crimes (Pub. Intox, single pill, personal consump. possession charges, etc.) usually do their time in jails rather than prisons, per se.

    13. Re: a guard problem, too by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 2

      Also, it attracts a certain personality type that enjoys having immense power over helpless people.

    14. Re: a guard problem, too by Gavagai80 · · Score: 4, Informative

      In Europe you even have in-cell phone and entertainment systems but recidivism statistics are the same.

      Present evidence for that, please. The drastically lower incarceration rates there suggest to me that they're not having to re-arrest people as much. Norway is the country best known for having comfy prisons, and it looks like their recidivism rate is 20% compared to the USA's 36%: https://www.researchgate.net/p...

      Of course it's very hard to find useful stats to compare since the nature of the crimes involved varies by country.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    15. Re: a guard problem, too by Lesrahpem · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think you're missing something here. A lot of the people incarcerated right now are in prison for non-violent crimes. There are definitely people who've done something terrible and can't be rehabilitated. More of the people incarcerated are in prison because they did something non-violent because they were in a bad situation and made a bad decision.

      For example, I knew a guy who was a union construction worker who made very good money for honest work. He got injured at work and the doctor prescribed him opiates for the pain until he could get into surgery. By the time he finally got in to have the problem fixed he was addicted to the pain meds. The doctor stopped the medication. For anyone who isn't aware, once a person is hooked on opiates the withdrawals are worse than the worst flu imaginable.

      This guy started seeking illegal opiates. He wasn't doing it to get high. He was doing it so he wasn't too sick to go to work and provide for his wife and 2 kids. Does this guy really need to be in prison for drug possession? Can we really say this guy doesn't need some kind of rehabilitation and we should just kill him?

      I realize this is kind of a straw-man argument, but as a society we have to understand our justice system as it exists works like this. There are plenty of people incarcerated who are still valuable humans who made bad decisions for respectable reasons. When we write them all off as the worst 1% we are doing ourselves a disservice.

    16. Re: a guard problem, too by Lesrahpem · · Score: 2

      I agree that the phones are a privilege, badly managed in the situation I described. I was only providing some context for other people to understand the issue better.

      The fact is most inmates will be released at some point, and some might be your neighbor. Think about that. Do you want someone who has been treated like an animal living next door to you or preparing your food? Wouldn't you rather have the guy who's been educated in better living, learned a skilled trade, and encouraged to seek guidance from his family, friends, and pastor? After all, we're talking about people who mostly offended because they lacked those things in the first place.

      If you don't care, just consider the next time you get a letter that isn't addressed to you. If you do anything other than write "return to sender - intended recipient not at this address" and place it back in your mail box you too are a felon and should be put in prison, denied phone access, and treated like an animal. That's what the codified law says anyway.

      None of this is cut and dry, and anybody trying to make it look that way is oversimplifying the issue.

    17. Re: a guard problem, too by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 2

      Well, first, the vast majority of people in prison are not predatory like that. That idea comes from television. Don't write off everyone else because of a relatively small number of 'predators'.

      In reality, most inmates will be released. Let's start from that simple reality. Isn't it better to provide socialization and occupational rehabilitation to prevent recidivism where we can? They're coming out ANYWAY. Sure, you will miss some bad guys who will immediately go wrong. We'll still come out better in the end.

      Second, all recidivism is expensive. Any training that enables former inmates to achieve financial stability (you know, legally) upon release pays huge dividends in terms of reduced social and financial costs associated with incarceration.

      Even for people who are never going to come out, if you can get them socially rehabilitated to the point that they can be moved to lower security level facilities we save money because high security is much more expensive than low security.

      And yes, there are tons of people/organizations that would LOVE to be allowed to go in and provide these kinds of services.

  2. We're jamming by bestweasel · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The only thing that will stop this is jamming the signal in prisons and that will need to be under federal control seeing as it's the staff who smuggle most of the phones in.

    1. Re:We're jamming by user+no.+590291 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Another way would be to pass legislation to require carriers to block prison locations from connecting to the towers, with a whitelist of IMEIs for prison staff.

    2. Re:We're jamming by Z00L00K · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even better would be to pipe all traffic through monitoring systems - and radio seal the whole prison so that phones will only roam to the base stations inside the prison.

      Any calls made would be incriminating for the receiver. Text messages should be scrambled or reviewed and thrown through autocorrecters and "talk like Yoda" to mess up any covert stuff.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    3. Re:We're jamming by user+no.+590291 · · Score: 2

      Love the "talk like Yoda" idea! "Whacked, $RIVAL_GANG_MEMBER must be."

    4. Re:We're jamming by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2

      Jam?! Way too much overkill. Just take a stroll through the scenic grounds of the prison with a laptop with Kismet.

      You'll find plenty of phones of folks who never turn their Wifi/WLAN off.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    5. Re: We're jamming by John+Jorsett · · Score: 5, Informative

      This works until the prison bartering and bribery system catches up. Prison guards can be bribed to have certain "favors" done. The bottom line is that there is no perfect solution. The best possible solution is take the profit out of prison operation.

      Prisoners housed in for-profit (i.e. private) prisons are in the neighborhood of 8% of the prison population. I think you must be confusing profit with government's efforts to reduce prison costs, like the aforementioned expensive phone calls. I know my state of California isn't cutting a fat hog with income from prisons; it costs the state many billions per year to run the system.

    6. Re:We're jamming by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      The explanation is simple. His wife told him a man told her it's better for her health and that of his kids if he lets the kingpin use the cellphone.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re:We're jamming by jenningsthecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Another way would be to pass legislation to require carriers to block prison locations from connecting to the towers, with a whitelist of IMEIs for prison staff.

      Yet another way, (not to stop it so much as to make it less prevalent), would be to do away with the ridiculous, self-serving, and frankly lazy practice of private for-profit prisons. Fifteen bucks for a two-minute phone call? That's just fucking outrageous! At the root of all of this, is the undeniable fact that when you turn prisons into a profit centre, capitalism will guarantee that their population is ever-increasing; and if some, (or many), of those people don't belong there, well, that's just the price of 'progress' and 'security'.

      Of course, maintaining this unfair and untenable situation is made much easier by the fact that the majority of the population is self-righteously happy with punishing those convicted of crimes, and doesn't care in the least about rehabilitating them.

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    8. Re:We're jamming by hord · · Score: 2

      Because we are supposed to have higher morals. Ostracism is regarded as the ultimate moral punishment since it deprives the ostracized of easy or community access to life resources while not condemning them to death outright. It also allows for the possibility of reconciliation over time. The Greek's called it "exile".

      By executing people, you are saying outright that you are willing to use murder as a way of negotiating complex problems. Whether you consider this just or not, other's can and will use this same logic against you.

    9. Re:We're jamming by arobatino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Reducing the cost of using the prison phones to a reasonable amount would help.

  3. 15$ for a phone call is a true crime here. by Swistak · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is what you get when you privatize prison system.

    and in case you haven't heard yet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    1. Re:15$ for a phone call is a true crime here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      his is what you get when you privatize prison system.

      The problem is almost all aspects of US society are privatized, and the Republicans are busy trying to privatize the rest. Nobody gives a shit how effective these things are, or if they are doing a better job ... as long as some asshole company is making profits, the people who are impacted can fuck off.

      Schools, healthcare, prisons, utilities ... America is reduced to nothing but idiots claiming lassez faire capitalism will save us all, when even Adam Smith didn't believe in laissez faire Capitalism.

      Americans are being robbed blind to prop up corporate profits, and they're being allowed to do this by governments which are there only to advance the interest of corporate profits.

      Go ahead, build that wall, and then shut up, fuck off, and leave the rest of the world in peace from your bullshit.

    2. Re:15$ for a phone call is a true crime here. by schleimkeim · · Score: 2

      being robbed blind

      No they're not. They are robbed in the most obvious ways and they still eat it up since the 1950s.

  4. Re: We're jamming (URL to appropriate jammer) by dnaumov · · Score: 2

    Jamming communications that allow contacting emergency services lands you straight in federal prison.

  5. Stingray by Suki+I · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Maybe not exactly the right tool, but something in that category. For some reason, the government can't figure out how to use Stingray properly and have a host of circuit court rulings against them.

    In a prison, the cell phones of prisoners are contraband. A Stingray like device could be used for intercepting those and figuring out the rest of the criminal enterprises.

    The BOP could also make cell phones contraband for the staff too, and solve a whole sorting problem.

  6. Possible Solution by ytene · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Over the years I've read various discussions concerning the problems caused by use of mobile phones in certain areas - for example within a cinema or theatre. Suggestions for remedies have included, for example, extending the cell phone standard to allow a "local suppressor signal", which could be generated by a licensed and restricted-access transmitter, and which would then need to be respected by handset OS providers.

    I think the complexity of implementation prohibited further development...

    However, there is a much simpler approach that could be of specific relevance to prisons, since these are, by their very nature, often "stand-alone" structures, kept well away from other buildings. The solution would involve placing multiple local cell towers at the periphery of the prison grounds, and have them provide a strong, healthy signal in the area. This would force all local handsets to handshake with one of these local towers.

    Except these would be special towers, with the ability for the prison officers to use triangulation to determine the location of the handset. If there was a suggestion that a handset requesting access to the tower was physically within the area of the prison, then the handset could be blocked from accessing the cell network. Since the local towers would know the ID of the handset, it could simultaneously be sent a simple SMS message explaining why access had been blocked [as a courtesy to innocent passers-by, so they would know it wasn't a general reception problem]. This technique could easily be modified to permit guards to use their handsets in appropriate areas [such as a canteen]. Obviously, for security reasons, you would not want to permit guards to walk around inside a prison with a cell-phone [because a bribed guard could easily give an inmate access].

    When enough towers are available, triangulation of handsets is both reliable and accurate, so not only could it be used to block use of handsets by inmates, it could in theory be used to determine the physical location of handsets to an area of the prison of no more than a few cells. If that could then be coupled with local hand-held scanners, locating and confiscating illegal handsets might become quite a lot easier.

  7. Or maybe ... by Torton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Or maybe put less people in prison? As a European I can not suppress the impression that the US is using its prison system as a giant rug under which to hide some structural problems in its society. Alas, I see the same tendency here in some political parties, so it is probably only a matter of time ... but one may hope as long as one can vote.

    1. Re:Or maybe ... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not being used to hide structural problems. It's being used to perpetuate them. See, the only way to remove voting rights from someone in the US in a permanent way is to convict them of a crime. Criminals also can get hired by private companies at essentially slave wages. Then, those prisons are run by other private corporations, who get paid by the state to house their slave labor they then rent out. They then funnel some of their profits as campaign contributions to the politicians who enable the system.

      Further, you should look at how fines work in the US. We fine people for needing to pay fines over time. We remove people's drivers licenses because they owe money, and then fine them for driving without a license (usually in states where there aren't other options to get to/from work, etc.)

      It's a super fucked up system. Kafka would be proud.

      --
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    2. Re:Or maybe ... by King_TJ · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The system has a lot of problems, but your explanation is questionable too.

      You *really* think we're imprisoning people primarily to strip them of their voting rights? Corporations are worried that common citizens will vote in a way contrary to their interests so they prevent that by getting them locked up in large numbers? That might make a good dystopian sci-fi theme -- but kind of far-fetched.

      As for revoking driving privileges because someone owes money (typically unpaid child support)? That's arguably overused, but worth keeping on the table as an option. All too often, you have people out there refusing to pay the support they owe, yet finding ways to take regular vacation trips all over the country where they spend thousands of dollars. Sure, it makes no sense to take a license away from somebody actually needing it to get to and from a job they're trying to do. But that's not where this law is getting applied, most of the time. They know that people value having the ability to drive. It's a big part of one's freedom in America. So taking it away when it's clear they're using it to make it harder to find them to collect child support? That just makes sense. And the fact they're likely to then drive without the license? That further helps ensure they wind up back in court at some point, where their lack of willingness to pay can be addressed.

    3. Re:Or maybe ... by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

      Corporations are worried that common citizens will vote in a way contrary to their interests so they prevent that by getting them locked up in large numbers?

      No, I think Republicans want to disenfranchise poor/black people who are not likely to vote for them. That they get to enrich private companies is gravy on top of that. See poll taxes, and much of the voterID public justifications.

      (typically unpaid child support)? That's arguably overused

      Typically fines and court fees (sometimes related to driving, often related to adding outrageous fees that must be settled). And yes, it's overused. Like, in VA in 2015, 1/6 drivers had their license suspended.

      Also, 90% of people who give up driving when they lose their license lose their jobs, it seems like a very counter-productive punishment. I know you think that's "not where this law is getting applied", but it totally is. Deadbeat, well-off dads are a rounding error. People who couldn't pay the fine for their headlight being out are their bread-and-butter

      And, I should point out the license issue was on top of a very different, and very real, jailtime enforced (and private!) set of outrageous fees and interest on people who pay their fines over time.

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  8. Other side of the coin. What lead to the violence? by Neuronwelder · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In the late 1960's and early '70's prisons were becoming alarmingly empty. Well in 1972 (sarcasm) good thing President Nixon came to the "rescue" starting the very expensive "War on Drugs," we pay taxes for. The prisons started to fill up again, mostly with people who could not afford a good attorney. - I would love to see an article explaining how we got to be the number 1 nation in imprisoning people. The over crowding that and systematic starvation. Cold and hot extremes they endure. How they now are making new laws to imprison more people because they have "Prisons for Profit", which are hungry for more prisoners. Forced labor. Forced payback on "rent" for your say. And we still pay taxes for private!! Also, how people get imprisoned for minor infractions like having as little 1 joint in their possession in some States.

  9. And the rest of us have a Stingray problem. by stevenm86 · · Score: 2

    Prisons have a cellphone problem. The rest of us have a Stingray problem. Put two and two together, apply whitelisting and recording as appropriate, and add a footnote about a "reasonable expectation of privacy". Problem solved.

  10. My sympathy is with the prisoners. by XXongo · · Score: 5, Insightful
    My sympathy is with the prisoners here.

    Prisons consider phone calls to be a money fountain. Basically, they are squeezing money out of prisoners trying to keep connections with family.

    Many many studies have shown that the single thing that is most important to reducing recidivism is that the prisoners have ties to family and community OUTSIDE of the people they meet in prison. So, basically, the main effect of high cost of phone calls home is to INCREASE crime.

    The whole bit about criminals running criminal enterprises with cell phones is mostly a distraction. The prisons want to delete cell phones purely because their monopoly on phoning home makes them tons of cash. If criminals were running criminal enterprises on cell phones, the solution would be a wiretap.

    from the article: Cellphones are prized because they allow inmates to avoid privatized jailhouse phone and visitation services that charge up to $15 for a two-minute call home to friends and family. "Inmates call their mothers like most of us do on holidays," said Dr. John Shaffer, former executive deputy secretary for the Pennsylvania Corrections Department.

    1. Re:My sympathy is with the prisoners. by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Convicted felon here.

      In two county jails and two federal prisons I was in, the facility itself makes no money directly from phone calls. The phone services are provided by outside vendors/contractors. There is an argument to be made that there is nepotism and corruption in play, but I think you would have to examine that on a case by case basis.

      I suspect the kickback model is the most popular. In the insider model, the Bush family is the most common suspect.

      From my personal experience, most facilities' motivation not to seek a better deal for their inmates is a combination of laziness and a feeling that they need/want to punish the prisoners.

    2. Re: My sympathy is with the prisoners. by zilym · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Guess you've never heard that the average person inadvertently commits three arguable felonies everyday. The game is rigged boys. With private jails profiting off of every "guest" admitted, the profit seeking impetus is to pass more and more laws to put more and more people in jail.

      Just failing to mow your lawn can land you in jail today. And once they've got you in jail, you can't mow your lawn to fix the problem, minimum wage laws no longer apply to your labor, and the jailers can nickel and dime you to death as they do with these high prices for phone calls.

      Be happy you're lucky enough to be on the outside right now.

    3. Re: My sympathy is with the prisoners. by neoshroom · · Score: 2

      Don't assume all people in prison are guilty. You can go to prison for journalism these days. All that is required is the journalism be redescribed as part of a criminal behavior. I felt threatened by those true opinions.

      --
      Big apple, new Yorik, undig it, something's unrotting in Edenmark.
    4. Re:My sympathy is with the prisoners. by stealth_finger · · Score: 2

      So what? It's not like prisoners normally make "average wages". The state has decided to incarcerate these people for whatever reason, the state can pay to monitor their phone calls.

      Yeah but prisons are about making money, not spending it. You think the prisons actually give a shit when they are for profit enterprises? Your tax money at work, going to these companies to lock as many people up as they can, they don't want them getting reformed, they want repeat business.

      --
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    5. Re:My sympathy is with the prisoners. by mishehu · · Score: 2

      I agree completely, and I despise the practice. We have far too many people locked up and far too many people being forced into plea-bargain deals.

  11. US Prisons Have A Privatization Problem by hyades1 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    As long as there's a profit to be turned from putting people in jail, guess what...more and more people will wind up in jail.

    The world would be a better place if those turning a profit from incarcerating non-violent criminals were held accountable for the damage they've done to society and forced to spend the rest of their lives in the institutions they created.

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  12. Rehabilitation by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Actually, I think there was a drive toward rehabilitation in prison from the 60's to the late 80's, especially at the federal level. They claimed three purposes of incarceration; the three R's: Restraint (I'm not robbing more banks while I'm locked up), Retribution (punishment to help victims feel closure and serve as a deterrent to other), Rehabilitation (changing me so I am less likely to break the law after my eventual release).

    Restraint clearly works. I robbed 0 banks during the entire time I was in prison.
    Retribution seems to work. I can't tell you how many people have told me they have always wanted to rob a bank but were too scared of the punishment.
    Rehabilitation pretty much left the federal system in 1987. Reagan and a couple of Supreme Court decisions effectively removed both the expectation and the reality of rehabilitative efforts. They gutted the the programming available to inmates, which had been quite extensive in some places.

    1. Re:Rehabilitation by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

      Citation needed.

      No one keeps to the speed limit when cops are out of sight, have you never driven before?
      No one kills anyone without thinking it is the right thing to do. That is the single cause of 99% of all murders.

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    2. Re:Rehabilitation by SeattleLawGuy · · Score: 2

      Actually, I think there was a drive toward rehabilitation in prison from the 60's to the late 80's, especially at the federal level. They claimed three purposes of incarceration; the three R's: Restraint (I'm not robbing more banks while I'm locked up), Retribution (punishment to help victims feel closure and serve as a deterrent to other), Rehabilitation (changing me so I am less likely to break the law after my eventual release).

      Restraint clearly works. I robbed 0 banks during the entire time I was in prison.
      Retribution seems to work. I can't tell you how many people have told me they have always wanted to rob a bank but were too scared of the punishment.
      Rehabilitation pretty much left the federal system in 1987. Reagan and a couple of Supreme Court decisions effectively removed both the expectation and the reality of rehabilitative efforts. They gutted the the programming available to inmates, which had been quite extensive in some places.

      I don't think any serious academics believe rehabilitation is currently a purpose of prison, even remotely. There are a few effective rehabilitative programs--good drug courts, for example--but they are the exception, not the rule.

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      Real lawyers write in C++
  13. Re:Li'l Rocket Man by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2, Informative

    Weird how no one cared when Obama spent half his presidency golfing

    Trump has golfed more than twice as much as President Obama.

    http://www.politifact.com/trut...

    He's done an amazing job dealing with three unprecedented natural disasters

    He's done a shit job in Puerto Rico and has zero legislative accomplishments to his name. By any objective measure, Trump is an historic failure as a president, as a man, and as a human being.

    https://www.vox.com/2017/10/1/...

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/...

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    You are welcome on my lawn.
  14. Re:Li'l Rocket Man by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    Got any sources that aren't fake news? No? I didn't think so.

    The Chicago Tribune is a conservative Republican newspaper.

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    You are welcome on my lawn.
  15. Re:Other side of the coin. What lead to the violen by fafalone · · Score: 2

    I would love to see an article explaining how we got to be the number 1 nation in imprisoning people.

    There's 10s of thousands of articles out there on the War on Drugs, take your pic.

    The real problem is our inability accept facts and logic. Eliminating drug abuse by forcefully stopping it wasn't an entirely unreasonable thing to try, especially back then when the issue wasn't well studied. But it's 100 years now since the first drug prohibition, and >40 of the modern War on Drugs. It has been demonstrated beyond any doubt that no matter how harsh the penalties, even the death penalty for drugs some countries have, prohibition does not work. Anybody can get any drug they want, even in maximum security prisons. Our 4th Amendment rights are nearly dead largely because of this. Loads of other rights are seriously damaged. Police becoming heavily armed soldiers with us as the enemy are a consequence of this. You might be able to justify all that, and the millions upon millions of lives ruined, and the hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars spent, if it was eliminating or seriously reducing the harm drugs cause to society... but it unequivocally is not.
    Drugs like cocaine, heroin, and meth have horrific consequences when they're abused; to the user, to their family, and to society. Since eliminating them is absolutely never gonna happen, we should instead pick the policy that minimizes the harm caused. Most people are simply incapable of accepting that criminal prohibition instead takes these very harmful substances, and increases their harm by orders of magnitude, and strips everyone of their civil rights.
    If you want to:
    -Minimize the number of addicts,
    -Minimize the number of ODs,
    -Minimize acquisitive crime (property crime to raise money),
    -Minimize violent crimes,
    -Maximize opportunities for people with abuse issues to get help,
    Then you have to provide tightly regulated, but legal, access, to all drugs. There's been extensive studies on this, it's not some random idea, it's a thoroughly studied and validated fact. Use does not increase. Portugal decriminalized all drugs for personal use; use went down. Turns out there's not loads of people saying 'gee, I sure wish heroin wasn't illegal, I'd try it otherwise'; something compounded by the fact the people most likely to develop an abuse issue are the least likely to be deterred by legality. All of the money currently spent on prohibition would instead go to education, prevention, and treatment- every dollar spent on that reduces drug abuse more than a dollar spent on prohibition. The money taken away from violent criminal organizations would completely cripple them. There'd be more cooperation with police who weren't constantly breaking down doors and shooting dogs, or sexually assaulting people on the side of the road with cavity searches (seriously, google roadside cavity search). There'd be less harassment when police couldn't bump their numbers with petty drug crimes.
    It's a hard fact to swallow, because you see the damage drugs can do, and desperately want that to never happen. But since that's impossible, you have to instead mitigate. However bad you think a given drug is, prohibition makes it worse. Whenever you say "Well, $x shouldn't be illegal because $y", $y is made worse, not better, by keeping it illegal.