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Is Amazon Lowering The Global Rate of Inflation? (businessinsider.com)

An anonymous reader quotes Business Insider: Another investment bank analyst has signed on to the idea that the internet is holding down the rate of inflation. Bilal Hafeez, the global head of G10 FX strategy and head of EMEA research at Nomura, published two notes last month on whether the value of the dollar was being held down by Amazon and its ilk. In one note he called it "the Amazonization of inflation"... [O]nline commerce typified by Amazon is making the supply and distribution of goods so cheap that "Amazonisation" itself is now a deflationary force at a macro level, Hafeez argues. He writes: "While globalisation was the meme of the 2000s, this decade's has to be the 'Amazonisation' of commerce. Given the bulk of the cost of goods is distribution costs, Amazon's unique distribution model and widening range of products could impart a new disinflationary impulse on goods prices."

This idea is becoming more popular among analysts as the months roll by. Back in September 2016, we told you about the "Spotify problem," in an interview with HSBC's James Pomeroy. His theory is that the internet allows consumers to shop around and compare prices incredibly easily. It also substitutes cheap digital goods over more expensive physical ones. For instance, people stop paying £20 every month for a CD when they start paying £10 a month for endless music from Spotify. The result is that businesses are aggressively driving down their own prices because consumers simply won't go to the ones that charge more, and are no longer trapped into shopping in their own neighbourhoods. Sweden is so advanced as a digital economy that it may be importing its own deflation via digital shopping, Pomeroy argued.

146 comments

  1. Is This the Forbes Web Site? by LifesABeach · · Score: 0

    How about discussing how Linux is being used successfully to help businesses?

    1. Re:Is This the Forbes Web Site? by wiggles · · Score: 1

      Economists are nerds too....

    2. Re:Is This the Forbes Web Site? by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      That's for nerds. Go away loser.

    3. Re:Is This the Forbes Web Site? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Then maybe an article on spread sheet chat bots?

    4. Re:Is This the Forbes Web Site? by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Oh princes, don't get your panties in a twist. I'm certain some intern in Accounts Receivable is cheering just for you.

    5. Re: Is This the Forbes Web Site? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to want them banned, but so many off-topic posts about banning them made me go buy a bunch, and I told everyone I know to do the same.

    6. Re: Is This the Forbes Web Site? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      How about you not posting an easily disproved lie? Some conservative legislators have already said they're open to forbidding hardware that makes semi-auto firearms fire as rapidly as an automatic firearm.

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    7. Re:Is This the Forbes Web Site? by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      It seems wrong to call someone in such an unscientific and highly politicized field a nerd.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    8. Re: Is This the Forbes Web Site? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazonisation? That's dumb. Do they not realize they are actually talking about innovation and efficiency and scale? Yeah those can also happen without Amazon. That's just one company. This might be a good time for Amazon to sue them or go the way of the kleenex.

    9. Re: Is This the Forbes Web Site? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yay slavery! Disarm the plebs!

    10. Re:Is This the Forbes Web Site? by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      A tech business with enough scale to have a macroeconomic effect? Sure sounds like "news for nerds, stuff that matters" to me.

  2. Depends on what factors you use by Z00L00K · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It all depends on what factors you use to calculate inflation.

    For merchandise possible to purchase via Amazon, Ebay or other similar large scale web source then it's holding down inflation since prices are severely pushed down. But for other merchandise like food and similar that don't do well on Amazon and Ebay then inflation can be quite different.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    1. Re:Depends on what factors you use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not really reduced inflation as much as it is removal of the parasitic layers between seller and end user.

    2. Re:Depends on what factors you use by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2
      The markup on food is probably as low as it's going to go. Other things such as automation might bring it down a little, but even with manual labor, the overhead is quite low.

      Think of someone picking onions. You could pick 1,000kg/hr. If you paid someone $100/hr to pick onions, that would only be adding 10 cents/kg. A person goes into the store to buy some onions, changing the price by 25cents/kg is not going to alter anyone's purchase plane.

    3. Re:Depends on what factors you use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think of someone picking onions. You could pick 1,000kg/hr. If you paid someone $100/hr to pick onions, that would only be adding 10 cents/kg. A person goes into the store to buy some onions, changing the price by 25cents/kg is not going to alter anyone's purchase plane.

      If they send their own plane to do purchases, I'd say that yes, they won't mind another 25 cents per kilogram. :p

    4. Re:Depends on what factors you use by ABEND · · Score: 2

      Maybe deflation is occurring because businesses that Amazon.com is competing with are filing for bankruptcy protection or defaulting on loans because they're losing business to Amazon.

      Loan defaults and bankruptcy makes "money" disappear and that is deflation.

      --
      In all seriousness:
    5. Re: Depends on what factors you use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Onions cost less than 75 cents a kilo. Adding 25 cents WILL make a purchasing difference.

    6. Re:Depends on what factors you use by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not really reduced inflation as much as it is removal of the parasitic layers between seller and end user.

      It is reduced inflation BECAUSE OF the removal of the parasitic layers between seller and end user.

    7. Re:Depends on what factors you use by rot16 · · Score: 1

      The kind of comment which keeps me coming back to /.

    8. Re:Depends on what factors you use by fubarrr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      >Is Amazon Lowering The Global Rate of Inflation?

      No, but Alibaba does. Amazon is all but a bug splat in comparison to Alibaba. The analyst who wrote the article does not see the elephant in the room.

      While Alibaba is already really big with small importers in US, it is even bigger in developing countries.

    9. Re:Depends on what factors you use by diamondmagic · · Score: 1

      If adding $0.25/kg wouldn't make a difference in anyone's purchases then why isn't it already that high?

      The answer, by the way, is yes, it does. Maybe not you, maybe not anyone you know, maybe not even a statistically significant number of people -- but still a nonzero number of people, and enough for the price to be set accordingly.

    10. Re:Depends on what factors you use by ceoyoyo · · Score: 2

      It's increased efficiency, which produces downward pressure on prices that counters the normal upward inflationary pressure. But like all efficiency gains, it's limited.

      I assume "amazonification" is just a buzzword. I expect the real improvements are in the logistics algorithms the entire industry uses.

    11. Re:Depends on what factors you use by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Inflation is not increased prices; Increased prices are frequently the result of inflation. Inflation is increase of the money supply, sometimes called "watering the currency".

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    12. Re:Depends on what factors you use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoa there cowboi ... if the number is not statistically significant, then it ... is ... NOT ! And small price decreases do not prompt new unplanned purchase, but small price increases DO prompt new unplanned non-purchase. Get it ?

    13. Re:Depends on what factors you use by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      Competition. And in reality, nobody is making $100/hr picking onions, more like $10 (I used to be an onion picker).

    14. Re:Depends on what factors you use by hjf · · Score: 1

      I'd risk saying neither do.
      Amazon does not operate even remotely of what you could call "worldwide". They are only big in Europe and the US, that's hardly enough to cause a "global deflation" rate.

      Alibaba, are you talking about the "wholesale" alibaba that doesn't compete on the same market as Amazon, or are you talking about Aliexpress which sells little irrelevant things?

      You see, online shopping needs a credit card. That's the default. The de facto standard. But that's not something everyone has. Just a fraction of people in developing countries have a credit card, and of those people, an even tinier fraction have a "international" card (most VISA issued in my country are only for use in Argentina for example).

      Amazon is irrelevant in Latin America, Africa and huge parts of Asia. They are not having a global effect.

    15. Re:Depends on what factors you use by Hadlock · · Score: 1

      It seems like the biggest hurdle for Amazon in other countries is that most other countries' parcel delivery systems are a total gamble as to whether or not your package (pick two):
       
        A) arrives within one month
      B) arrives without damage (physical drop/crush or water)
      C) arrives at all
       
      If amazon manages to figure out air delivery between warehouses (currently they're chartering two jets full time) and delivery services (they have their own fans/delivery employees in 5+ major cities in the US now) then they're 80% of the way towards solving the problems that prevent them from rolling out to third world countries.
       
      As they get bigger I can see them building their own air strip and warehouses in each country, maybe even a private seaport in largest cities like Rio and Buenos Aires and partner with the government to do some sort of privatized customs. That's some serious cash outlay, but it's almost impossible to get quality products in third world countries. I'm traveling currently and the mid-tier ($10) headphones (about 1 weeks local wages) aren't even comparable to the cheapest headphones you can buy at walmart. For $15 you get a pair of amazon branded headphones that's equivalent to $35 local economy quality.

      --
      moox. for a new generation.
    16. Re: Depends on what factors you use by fubarrr · · Score: 1

      Alibaba group as a whole, other than aliexpress, and wholesale, they have a dozen mammoth sized Chinese language marketplaces + Lazada + other wholesale marketplaces and on and on

    17. Re:Depends on what factors you use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my own case I am moving from traditional: manufacturer - distributor - retailer - end user
      to amazon: manufacturer - amazon - end user

      Amazon takes a smaller margin than the retailer, end result for the consumer is products at half price. I like to think that results in significant rather than limited efficiency gain.

    18. Re:Depends on what factors you use by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      It's increased efficiency, which produces downward pressure on prices that counters the normal upward inflationary pressure. But like all efficiency gains, it's limited.

      Bingo, and it is only temporary. And importantly, those middlemen aren't "parasitic" as people say here; they do actually serve a very useful and very important purpose, which is why people pay them. To say otherwise is to have no clue how supply chain management works. Amazon is able to do away with intermediary companies and in-source their supply chain management instead, which is why they can lower the costs. On the down side, the barrier to entry into the retail business has been dramatically increased, but on the plus side, everybody becomes wealthier without needing an increase in incomes.

    19. Re:Depends on what factors you use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Health, Insurance. Childcare and education costs have negated overall inflation.
      We know the real cost of housing has risen - and not added into cpi fully.
      Amazon has basically stuffed the model where shopping centers can hike rents 6% compound PA, and the retailers can kiss their 'goodwill' goodbuy,
      plus some long term wishful thinking that retail margins can get fatter

      Inflation is low because unemployment and underemployment is much higher than reported, and rates flatlining.

    20. Re:Depends on what factors you use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Loan defaults and bankruptcy makes "money" disappear and that is deflation.

      If money disappears in bankruptcy, then money that "disappeared" must have been "created" when the loan was made.

    21. Re:Depends on what factors you use by hjf · · Score: 1

      It seems like the biggest hurdle for Amazon in other countries is that most other countries' parcel delivery systems are a total gamble as to whether or not your package (pick two):

          A) arrives within one month
      B) arrives without damage (physical drop/crush or water)
      C) arrives at all

      Doubt it. That's true only for international shipping. Most countries have a relatively developed post system that can deliver parcels. Especially to urban areas, where internet access is available. Sure, packages to a deep forest village in Africa may not be delivered within one month, but then again, those people are most likely NOT to have internet access or even a credit card.

      As they get bigger I can see them building their own air strip and warehouses in each country, maybe even a private seaport in largest cities like Rio and Buenos Aires and partner with the government to do some sort of privatized customs. That's some serious cash outlay, but it's almost impossible to get quality products in third world countries. I'm traveling currently and the mid-tier ($10) headphones (about 1 weeks local wages) aren't even comparable to the cheapest headphones you can buy at walmart. For $15 you get a pair of amazon branded headphones that's equivalent to $35 local economy quality.

      That's because corruption is rampant. That is definitely not going to happen in Argentina. And most of Latin America as well. Especially in Argentina. Argentina's customs were founded in 1534. And Argentina, in 1816. And the only reason for Argentina's independence is... to gain control of customs.

      "some sort of privatized customs" that's really how "Rampa 4" at the Ezeiza airport works. DHL, FEDEX, UPS and other couriers have a dedicated customs where your packages are cleared at any time apparently (I've received customs notifications from DHL really late at night).

  3. Remember kids, there is no inflation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ignore the steadily rising cost of housing, (restaurant) food, and transportation, your perishable goods and entertainment items are staying the same price!

    1. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 3, Informative

      Restaurant food prices are going up, but food price are going down. Restaurants are for special occasions and rich people. Learn to cook, you can easily make restaurant quality food for a fraction of restaurant prices. You can save thousands of dollars per year.

    2. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and also spend hundreds of hours of your time, which you'll never get back. Now me, spending money to save the precious commodity of time is almost always worth it.

    3. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What do you need that time for? Watching TV? Video games? Masturbation? ....some people like to do things other than work and party. Gardening perhaps or craft cooking.

    4. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Different people have different priorities and perspectives, of course.

      I enjoy cooking. Additionally, it's not like my non-cooking hours are filled to the brim with productive activities - I mean, here I am, posting on Slashdot for goodness sake! So "spending time" to do something like cooking is often a better use of resources than spending money to eat out, from my perspective.

      And, when our family goes out to eat, it's considered a treat rather than a time-savings.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    5. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by zilym · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I save time by cooking at home. If I were to eat out every meal, I'd be wasting a ton of time fighting through traffic and waiting in lines, three times a day. I'd also be getting sick because those restaurants are never perfect at hygiene. I've never had food poisoning from a meal I prepared at home, but when I eat out, it's a bit like rolling dice.

      With a garden in my backyard, a lot of my food doesn't even need to be cooked -- cooking is a crutch for people eating tough store bought foods that aren't young, fresh, and tender like what I get out of my garden. Plus, I don't have to wait in any lines to "check out" from my garden "grocery store."

      Next, I learned about composting my food wastes, which REALLY improves the cleanup efforts of stuff that used to take forever to cleanup manually. It is SO much easier to take my dirty cutting board outside and hose it off at high pressure over the woodchip compost pile than scrubbing it indoors where anything splashing ends up creating potential cross-contamination and more cleanup work.

    6. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 this guy...tell it brutha

    7. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Ignore the steadily rising cost of housing

      Per square foot, housing is about the same as it was in 1980 in comparison to median wages. The main reason why housing is more expensive is that houses today are bigger.

      The reason you hear a lot about high housing prices is that most journalists live in NYC, DC, SF, or LA, and those are all expensive housing markets. But they are outliers, not the norm.

    8. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      This is part of the problem with the way inflation is measured. The fact that housing isn't inflating on a square-foot basis is irrelevant. Consumers are price-takers in the market, and if a bigger more expensive house is all the market supplies, then consumers are effectively faced with inflation. Cost per square foot is irrelevant, because you can't go down to the store and just buy the square footage you need.

      Another way inflation is poorly measured is this whole business of throwing out certain goods like food and fuel because "they are volatile"; but this is a topic that's been beaten to death everywhere.

      See also, "hedonics" where the Ivory Tower assures us there's no inflation because our 36-inch flat-screen is so much better than our 17-inch tube.

      Inflation numbers have been politicized to the point of absurdity, and I can't even really tell how far it's gone so I don't want to say it's all that bad... but word on the street is that it's a lot worse than what they're telling us.

    9. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Actually, can go to a store and buy the additional square footage you need, as long as you don't live in it. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Handy-Home-Products-Majestic-8-ft-x-12-ft-Wood-Storage-Shed-18631-8/202205311

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    10. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      BS. I've done the math more than once. The cost per sq area has increased versus the average wage.

    11. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by cheesybagel · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'll give you an example. My grandfather bought a house with 2.5 years of his income. The same house right now would take me 8 years income to purchase.

    12. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by bmimatt · · Score: 1

      This. On top of that, it is a very pleasant and satisfying feeling to feed people with what you made from scratch.

    13. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Right for example

      https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jamie...

      You can get to and from the restaurant in 15 minutes then? Realistically for the vast majority of people this is not the case.

    14. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      Are you high pressure hosing meat juice off the board? You could be making aerosols that you could inhale. Better to just wipe it down with some soapy water in the sink. If you use a wood board it helps since bacteria have issues growing much in wood. Apply mineral oil and/or beeswax from time to time when the wood looks dried out. Bamboo cutting boards are inexpensive if you're nervous and want to replace them when they're scarred from use but I don't worry about it much, myself. Otherwise, yes, always fun to incorporate gardening into the kitchen.

    15. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by cheesybagel · · Score: 3, Informative

      There are two main reasons why houses are so expensive today: because women don't stay at home anymore, families disposable income nearly doubled, but because you can't easily create more land, house prices nearly doubled from that alone, the rest of the difference in price can be easily be explained by the insanely low interest rates and ease of credit available today. Back when my grandfather bought his house, he couldn't get a bank loan, and had to ask a financier with a lot of cash to give him a loan with a signed and registered contract.

    16. Re:Remember kids, there is no inflation by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      BS. I've done the math more than once.

      Maybe you need a new calculator.

      The cost per sq area has increased versus the average wage.

      No it hasn't..

  4. SlashDEAD is the new name! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you have amazing rates of deflation pushing against amazing rates of inflation, it doesn't mean that the inflation is gone.
     
    Amazon puts people out of work. Automation is now to the point that it has put people out of work. People are therefore worthless. They will accept less pay for more hours. That is deflation.
     
    I also find it cute that robbing every dollar holder of value is somehow "a good thing" because inflation is such a good thing because someone says that 2% inflation rate is such a "good thing" yadda yadda yadda. The dollar has lost 96% of its value since the private bankers took over with the Federal Reserve. It's as "Federal" as Federal Express. A federal charter for a private banking cartel does not make it a government entity.

    1. Re:SlashDEAD is the new name! by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2, Funny

      The PC put most mainframers out of work. In 1983 a PC cost $9,000 (inflation adjusted). Today an equivalent PC costs less than $5 on ebay. Think of all those computer operators that were put out of work and bring back the mainframe. Think of the jobs that would be saved by reversing the deflation of computing prices.

    2. Re:SlashDEAD is the new name! by mikael · · Score: 1

      It's like those last minute ticket websites. In the past, if you wanted a restaurant or a hotel room for a conference at the last minute, you could only phone round so many hotels. You might have a search strategy based on the distance from the venue or being close to a train line, but you had to take what was available and they would jack up the rates if they knew you were going for the conference rather than a holiday. With the website, you have the whole range of all hotels searched instantly and anonymously. That helped drive down prices since supply exceeded demand.

      In the past, I've experienced the price gouging by high street office supply stores. One place tried to charge me £80 for a pack of 10 pre-formatted 3.5" floppy disks. When mail-order office supply shops became popular those stores had to cut their prices to something sensible.

      --
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    3. Re:SlashDEAD is the new name! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      The PC put most mainframers out of work.

      Not really. Despite the PC, the number of AS/400 and other "mainframes" continued to grow for years, and are still common today, especially at financial institutions.

      Go to any job site, and type in "AS400". There are still plenty of opportunities available.

    4. Re:SlashDEAD is the new name! by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      But how much is that mainframe vs vendor lock-in with a solution provider who just happens to sell them? DEC?

    5. Re:SlashDEAD is the new name! by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Amazon puts people out of work. Automation is now to the point that it has put people out of work. People are therefore worthless

      That's one of the nastiest things I've ever read on slashdot. No, I'm not new here.

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    6. Re:SlashDEAD is the new name! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you cannot sell your labor, then your labor is worthless. Goldwater argued that. It's as true or false now as it was then.

  5. A race to the bottom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    when the price wars are over, the monopolies will prosper

  6. The classic monopoly approach by XXongo · · Score: 1, Troll

    Amazon is using the classic monopolist approach: sell at unbeatably low prices until you drive the competition out of business. At that point, with no competition you can raise your prices to whatever you like, and, with no competition, people have to pay.

    1 ...
    2 ...
    3. Profit!

    1. Re:The classic monopoly approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet Amazon is rarely the cheapest, has at most a few percent market share among online shops and isn't even operating at all in the vast majority of countries.

    2. Re:The classic monopoly approach by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Please explain why Walmart doesn't own everything already then since they were the previous unbeatable low-prices outfit that wanted to drive out all of the competition.

    3. Re: The classic monopoly approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain why Walmart doesn't own everything already then since they were the previous unbeatable low-prices outfit that wanted to drive out all of the competition.

      Explain what?

      Walmart's web presence is huge. Bigger in dollar value than Amazon.

      Did you not know that?

    4. Re:The classic monopoly approach by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Amazon hasn't been the cheapest for a long time now. What's making people stick with Amazon is that they offer a better service overall. I know that if I start looking there, I can almost certainly find what I want, the price will be reasonable - Walmart and eBay will usually offer slightly better prices for generic goods, but not significantly - and I'll get the product in two days delivered to my door.

      They're no longer competing on price, they're competing on the entire experience.

      Walmart has the business model you're referring to, but they've had limited success with it, largely because the whole experience involves shoddy goods, frequently abusive customer service, long lines, and dirty stores. You have to do more than compete on price.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    5. Re:The classic monopoly approach by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Amazon is using the classic monopolist approach

      Amazon is nowhere close to a monopoly, and predatory pricing only works when there are high barriers to entry. Online retailing has very few barriers to entry. Anyone can slap together a website and start selling stuff. The barriers are going down rather than up, as we move toward more secure online payments.

    6. Re: The classic monopoly approach by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      GP is referring to pre-internet Walmart.

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    7. Re: The classic monopoly approach by Miamicanes · · Score: 5, Informative

      1. Walmart isn't always the cheapest.

      2. There are things that Walmart just plain doesn't sell. At least, not at their retail stores.

      If you're buying something like an XBox One bundle, the console you'll get at Walmart is no different from the console you'll get from anyone else, so there's no reason to favor or avoid Walmart if you're buying one.

      If you want a Denon or Yamaha home theater amp, you aren't going to be getting it from your local Walmart store AT ANY PRICE, because Walmart doesn't stock expensive niche items in retail stores at all, and is rarely price-competitive with Amazon when they have them online.

      Likewise, the products sold at Walmart aren't necessarily identical in quality to seemingly-identical products sold elsewhere. For example, a TV manufacturer might have a model -- let's call it the "QZX65Y" -- that everyone at avsforum.com worships, and has 99% 5-star reviews everywhere from people who think it's the greatest TV, ever. That TV might wholesale for $520, and sell for $599 at stores like Best Buy. Now, let's scrutinize its seemingly-identical cousin, the "QZX65Y3" (sold only by Walmart). See, Walmart balked at the $520 wholesale price, and threatened to walk unless the manufacturer sold it to them for $507. But Walmart doesn't really care if their model is literally 100% identical, as long as it has the same advertised specs. So, the manufacturer grudgingly agrees to Walmart's lower wholesale price, then manufactures Walmart's run of TVs using cheaper, lower-binned backlight LEDs, and gives it a slightly different model number to avoid harming all the 5-star reviews the "real" model has gotten. Then Walmart advertises it for $589. On paper, the two look the same -- especially to a clueless consumer who doesn't even know what to look for. But if you put the two models side by side displaying uniform 50% gray, the "good" model might display a field of relatively consistent gray, while the "Walmart" model might have patches with a blue or yellow twinge, or slightly different brightness (because low-binned LEDs aren't guaranteed to be as consistent as high-binned LEDs).

      Sadly, the same kind of "quality fade" can happen if, a year later, you go to some regional electronics chain (like Brandsmart in Florida) who sells mostly "last year's models, at rock-bottom prices". For the last manufacturing run or two of a given model, the manufacturer might just switch to low-binned LEDs so they can reduce the wholesale price and scrape up a few more buyers. The "good" stores won't buy the cost-reduced models anyway (they're waiting for next year's models), and by that point the manufacturer has piled up enough 5-star reviews for ANYONE who bitches about getting a late-version model with inferior low-binned LEDs to look like a wacky outlier. Companies like Linksys and Netgear do this so often, they've practically turned quality-fade into a performance art.

      It happens. All the time. Every single manufacturer with models specific to Walmart does this. And it's not just TVs... a Lawn Boy or Toro lawnmower from Walmart might LOOK like the lawnmowers sold by more expensive stores, but if you scrutinize the model numbers, you'll see that they differ slightly. And if you tore down two seemingly-identical models (with slightly different model numbers) side by side, you'll find at least a few insidious differences, GUARANTEED. Maybe it's something as simple as polishing off the injection-molding burrs from the starter handle on the "good" model, while leaving them on the "Walmart" model. Or using stainless-steel screws on the "good" model, and cheaper galvanized screws on the "Walmart" model. Regardless, the differences are real, and they're there if you look hard enough for them.

    8. Re: The classic monopoly approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...

      It happens. All the time. Every single manufacturer with models specific to Walmart does this. And it's not just TVs... a Lawn Boy or Toro lawnmower from Walmart might LOOK like the lawnmowers sold by more expensive stores, but if you scrutinize the model numbers, you'll see that they differ slightly. And if you tore down two seemingly-identical models (with slightly different model numbers) side by side, you'll find at least a few insidious differences, GUARANTEED. Maybe it's something as simple as polishing off the injection-molding burrs from the starter handle on the "good" model, while leaving them on the "Walmart" model. Or using stainless-steel screws on the "good" model, and cheaper galvanized screws on the "Walmart" model. Regardless, the differences are real, and they're there if you look hard enough for them.

      Bad shit drives decent shit off the market.

    9. Re: The classic monopoly approach by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're buying something like an XBox One bundle, the console you'll get at Walmart is no different from the console you'll get from anyone else, so there's no reason to favor or avoid Walmart if you're buying one.

      Not always true. There have been a few vendors that I know of who, having had Walmart squeeze all of the profit out of their deal for the vendor, reengineered their product using inferior materials in order to create some profit for themselves. Much like what you said in the following paragraphs, but there is no model number change and no external indication that the Walmart product is any different than the ones found at other retailers. My wife was on one such reengineering team and saw the process first hand. It is why she refuses to shop at Walmart now. She assumes all other vendors did what her company did.

  7. That's a really bad article! It doesn't explain... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some people who would read this might not even understand what deflation is and might not understand why this might be a bad thing...

    For years economists relied on various metrics to measure the health of the economy e.g. employment rates, inflation etc. The problem is that tech is already changing the very behavior of these variables and that's before we have things like self driving cars & advanced everyday robots... It's very possible that we are heading for another meltdown and won't have the obvious warning signs because the economy might seem fine to the experts.

  8. low inflation != low value of a dollar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    TFS: the idea that the internet is holding down the rate of inflation. Bilal Hafeez, ... published two notes ... on whether the value of the dollar was being held down.

    Confused dog is confused. Holding down the rate of inflation implies keeping the value of the dollar up.

    1. Re:low inflation != low value of a dollar by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The value of a dollar is what you can get for it. If you can't get as much for a dollar these days, it's inflation. If distribution systems become more efficient, or you can get better information about costs, you can get more for a dollar rather than less.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  9. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Science and technology are lowering it. We are slowly going to have to face the fact that our economic and social models are obsolete. We will have to accept that not everyone needs to work and we are in an ocean of abundance, but forcing each other to operate as if it's the Bronze Age.

    As usual, it's not the countless scientists and engineers that designed and built the machinery that allows this abundance, instead, we focus on one person who had nothing to do with it, and he gets all the credit.

    1. Re:No by chihowa · · Score: 1

      As usual, it's not the countless scientists and engineers that designed and built the machinery that allows this abundance, instead, we focus on one person who had nothing to do with it, and he gets all the credit.

      Science and technology are not a product of the ultra-wealthy and we need to shed the collective delusion that being wealthy is somehow correlated with generalized intelligence or an interest in progress. Technology, especially as a tool for saving labor, is most useful for those who can least afford labor and has done way more for improving the lives of commoners than the wealthy.

      Their interest in it, nerdy exceptions like Musk aside, is focused on improving the productivity of their profit generating machines. If it weren't for the lowly scientists and engineers, the wealthy would still be living in their drafty castles with hundreds of servants and be perfectly content with it.

      Hopefully, our current president's time in the limelight will give everybody a clearer picture of how the typical plutocrat thinks and help break this spell.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
  10. more stories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please tell me more stories about how good is Amazon. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon.com_controversies

  11. is digital cheaper? where's the TCO study? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a lot of this seems to be pulled out of thin air with no numbers to back it up - is buying a physical music CD which will last a lifetime under normal storage conditions and a CD player which is cheap to replace compared to a digital player REALLY cheaper than a $400 iPad or iPod Touch and buying the same music digitally? where are the numbers to back this up? yes, we have less physical clutter with digital media, but is it really cheaper? especially if you have to keep buying the same stuff over and over on different platforms - as for me, i would prefer to see some hard numbers, such as the TCO total cost of ownership of a CD collection over a decade versus renting music and playing it on a digital player - until someone does that, these articles are worthless

    1. Re: is digital cheaper? where's the TCO study? by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      My $30 smartphone plays back music perfectly fine.

    2. Re:is digital cheaper? where's the TCO study? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Very few people bought music on tape and kept it forever. They replaced their tapes with CDs, then their CDs with something else. So theoretically a CD would last a long time, but in actual use it doesn't. Also, very few people buy an iPod Touch (or an iPad?!) to listen to streaming music. They listen on some device they already own or are buying for another purpose, like a smartphone.

      The impact on the economy is what the average person does, not what some nerd on Slashdot points out is technically possible.

  12. The inflation is in housing... by AmazingRuss · · Score: 1

    ... the banks can used borrowed money to help you drive the price out of your reach. All that money saved on amazon is soaked up by interest payments on your house.

    Then the market crashes, the banks get the houses, and hold them off the market until the next crop of suckers is ready to pay too much for fear of being left out.

    Rinse, repeat.

  13. ObBetteridge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No.

  14. Ignoring something rather important... by TWX · · Score: 3, Interesting

    For instance, people stop paying £20 every month for a CD when they start paying £10 a month for endless music from Spotify.

    This assumes that people generally buy music monthly, and that the music costs a certain amount. It also assumes that the same selection is available on Spotify as in the record store.

    When I buy music on a physical format, almost exclusively CD, it's almost always used. If it's not used it's because it's a new release and is not available used, and if my interests are not top-40 or top-100 then it's probably not available on Spotify either.

    I'm going to hazard a guess that Spotify isn't displacing as much physical media or purchased media files as it is listeners of satellite radio and FM radio, where listeners got tired of excessive numbers of ads or of not getting enough of the music that they want, or of paying for stations that they don't listen to.

    It's often commented that 80-90% of one's business comes from 10-20% of one's customers, the die-hard, repeat customers. Based on my own observations, with music this seems to hold true. Sales to the very occasional buyer of an album are not insignificant, but they're not as important as sales to those who feel that they are connoisseurs and make regular purchases. Those in the latter group are probably going to still buy, it's the casual buyers that will be lost to services.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Ignoring something rather important... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My own case is this.

      The 20 years before spotify I spent an average of 10 dollars / year on music.

      After spotify I spend the monthly subscription which comes to about 120 dollars / year.

    2. Re:Ignoring something rather important... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Were you buying one CD every 3 years?

      As far as I recall, the CD prices were way high back then, in the range of 30 dollars per disc.

    3. Re:Ignoring something rather important... by TWX · · Score: 1

      That's pretty much in-line with my observation. Album-sales didn't really lose you to anything else because you didn't really buy albums to begin with.

      Did Spotify replace regular broadcast radio for you?

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    4. Re:Ignoring something rather important... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. So much this. I'm one of the guys that bought 5 CD's in my life until I turned 18; then I got a free Spotify account for a couple of years, and have now paid for Spotify Premium for about 5 years. I'm not really interested in specific artists at all, and mostly listen to playlists made by other people; if streaming wasn't a thing, I'm quite sure the alternative would be radio not buying more albums.

    5. Re:Ignoring something rather important... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      CDs means albums. Albums are nothing like they were in the past where bands created the tracks and promoted the material in gigs/concerts. These days an album is just a collection of songs written by the same groups of people, performed/mimed by face-of-the-week. People gave up on albums because after years of shit plus one or two decent songs, they realised what a waste of money they are. Streaming services allow these people to just listen to the songs they like. The music industry is dying because it's a generic mess of shite.

    6. Re:Ignoring something rather important... by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      Probably was listening to the radio.

    7. Re:Ignoring something rather important... by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      It did for most people, all of my friends that pay for music streaming don't listen to the radio. Myself, I decided monthly fees were too much and I'd just listen to the occasional ad on the streaming service. Then Prime gave me music too.

    8. Re:Ignoring something rather important... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not really comparable then, isn't it? You/OP can still listen to spotify for free and continue to spend little money on it.

    9. Re:Ignoring something rather important... by golden_donkey · · Score: 1

      I still buy music on CDs. Quality is better when listening on good equipment and I always have the option to rip CDs for the times I go running or hiking (I don't have Spotify on my iPod shuffle).

  15. This isn't new by Dracos · · Score: 1

    Walmart has been having the same effect (one of many) since the mid 90s.

    Why name this after Amazon?

    1. Re:This isn't new by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Because the article is about "global" deflation, and while Walmart has bought a few chains outside of the US, it hasn't turned them into Walmarts. Its reach, for the most part, is North America, not the entire globe.

      Amazon? They're not everywhere, but they're in the vast majority of significant economies.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    2. Re:This isn't new by hjf · · Score: 1

      What the hell are you smoking?
      Walmart is global. They're everywhere. They are HUGE in China.

      Outside US, Amazon is tiny. In Asia they are just irrelevant.

      You see, son, you think only USA and Europe matter. But you're wrong. Set foot in Asia and see where the future is.

  16. Low inflation is bogus; only electronics dropping by knorthern+knight · · Score: 5, Interesting

    * Transit fares have gone up continuously; e.g. https://globalnews.ca/news/235... And pennies have been withdrawn from circulation in Canada

    *A new 1974 Ford Maverick, V8, automatic transmission cost under $4,000 in Canada, and probably around $3,000 US. Try getting a 2018 Ford Focus for under $20,000 today.

    * Food prices have kept rising continuously

    * Rents and housing getting unaffordable here in Toronto

    * Cable bills keep shooting upwards, which is why "cord-cutting" is now a thing

    * A new 50 inch plasma TV was $3,500 in 2007 dollars. Today a 50 inch LED TV can be had for $300

    * A basic IBM PC with 640 KILObytes of ram, 10 MEGAbyte disk drive, and 320x200 siaplay CRT came in at around $5,000 in 1983 dollars. Today's $1,000 machines walk all over it.

    Problem... you can't live in a PC or TV; you can't eat a PC or TV; you can't ride to work in a PC or TV. The upper or upper-middle class are better off today (what's left of the middle class, but that's another story).

    Meanwhile. a lot of ordinary people, especially those in minimum wage jobs, have extreme difficulty paying for basic necessities. Is there an inflation index for necessities, i.e. food/shelter/clothing and transportation? And by transportation, I mean local stuff. A flight to Hawaii might cost less today, but the average person is more worried about commuting to work, and getting around town.

    --

    I'm not repeating myself
    I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
  17. A capitalist class shell game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. Return on savings accounts: Abysmally low.

    2. Have you seen a decent raise since the 80's? Not me... Not anyone I know. All decent raises happen at the C-level and above.

    3. Have you noticed the price of housing, education and heath care are all skyrocketing? These are the essential things everyone needs. Will food be next?

    4. What about that trend towards precarious employment (temps, gig work, etc.) have you been affected? Jobs are essential too.

    5. All the stuff not required to live decently has not been inflating... (Well maybe except for cable TV, airline fares, and insurance).

    6. Have you noticed the hyperbole in politics? This is a distraction to keep everyone from noticing the detrimental changes to society.

    7. Have you noticed the government can't get anything done? Me too.

    8. Have you noticed a trend to marginalize the rights of ordinary citizens? (Binding Arbitration, Non-compete agreements, Federal preemption)

    9. Have you noticed a rise in hate groups, and religious zealotry, as well as attacks gay and transgender people? Hmmmm, this is like Germany in the 1930's.

    Something nasty is bound to happen soon.

    1. Re:A capitalist class shell game by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      A savings account is one way a bank borrows money from its customers. When a bank can borrow huge amounts of money from the Fed at below 1%, why should it go through all the nuisance of dealing with a great many savings accounts and pay substantial interest on those accounts? This is entirely the government's fault.

      The rising prices of housing, education, and health care are all the government's fault.

      You yourself identify politics/government as a problem in (6), (7), and (8). If a problem is caused by government, it's not caused by capitalism.

      With respect to gays, attacks on them have been declining for decades - so much so that not only do they feel free to display their sexual preferences in public, they feel free to be assholes about it.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    2. Re:A capitalist class shell game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I'm watching the whole 'kneeling' drama going on in the NFL, with Pence leaving the Colts and 49ers game early. On the surface it seems to be about racial injustice, but I believe there are much more serious underpinnings of national dissatisfaction. There is so much crap going on that isn't right and the powerful are starting to lose control, and that's why they are unhappy about it. So much more frequent riots because of this injustice or that. It's all building into a larger attitude of fighting against an institution that cares less and less for the people it is supposed to be helping.

    3. Re:A capitalist class shell game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something nasty is bound to happen soon.

      Something nasty already happened. It was called the Great Recession. You're living in what's left of a dying civilisation.

    4. Re:A capitalist class shell game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop watching alt-left media. Wake up and join the real world where sexualising children and playing gender fluid games is nothing but a mental illness and sicko parenting.

    5. Re:A capitalist class shell game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are going to build a "no one has ever" argument you might try to make it believable:

      1. Sort of true; I get 1% but considering where inflation is . . .
      2. 20 years ago I started at the company I work for at minimum wage and make 6 digits now - there were quite a few meaningful rasies along the way
      3. Sky rocketing? Try some helpful charts: https://www.bls.gov/regions/mid-atlantic/data/averageretailfoodandenergyprices_usandmidwest_table.htm
      4. I have worked for the same company for 20 years.
      5. Sure, many manufactured products are having price deflation
      6. Like your post?
      7. Yes, that's good - government not doing things is my favorite type of government
      8. I concur that these maneuvers are an ongoing issue.
      9. Not really, do you remember the 60s/70s?

    6. Re:A capitalist class shell game by TheCastro1689 · · Score: 1

      Of course savings accounts are crazy low interest rate. The Fed is artificially propping up both the housing/loan market and the stock market making sure you put your money their for decent returns and cheap loans to keep spending up.

    7. Re:A capitalist class shell game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have to careful when it comes to health care costs. One reason health care costs are more expensive is that more people are on maintenance care that simple didn't exists in the 1930's-1980's. Potentially these people would be enjoying a very much reduced quality of life or be dead. So their increased healthcare costs are a direct result of medicine and techniques that did not previously exist, and the benefit of that cost is increased lifespan.

  18. That's not what's driving houses out of your reach by rsilvergun · · Score: 1, Insightful

    at least not in the United States. Here it's our aging population who've had their pensions and retirement funds raided the last 20 years. They've still got their savings though and they're using those to buy houses to flip and/or rent. That's also what caused the 2008 crash and why it was so bad. It wasn't poor people buying houses they couldn't afford. Those folks tried tooth and nail to hang onto their homes. It was upper middle class who'd over extended themselves in the house flipping market. When it became clear they weren't going to make back their investment they just walked away because they had no emotional attachment.

    Basically it's baby boomers. We've left them with just enough money to be dangerous but not enough to live out their lives comfortably. They're gonna wreck our shit for the next 20 years until they die off...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  19. Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electronics droppi by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

    While I agree with some of your points, Amazon didn't exist in 1974. If you were to look at their effect, you'd have to limit yourself to the 10-15 years they've been operating as a significant international player. But yes, it makes sense they're only effective in the markets they operate in, ordinary consumer goods, rather than cars, etc.

    Cable bills? That's a tough one - you say "They're rising hence cord cutting is a thing", but Amazon is one of the companies that's involved in that cord cutting and making it possible. People are going from spending $50-100 on cable TV to $20-40 on Amazon Prime, Netflix, and Hulu.

    And Comcast has actually noticed that. They're now offering their channels as streaming TV instead. So sure, "Cable TV" is more expensive than ever, but "Having stuff I can watch on TV" is going in the reverse direction price wise.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  20. Typical fud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No.

    https://ycharts.com/indicators/ecommerce_sales_as_percent_retail_sales

    Try central bank balance sheets, sovereign debt, and negative interest rates.

  21. Re:That's not what's driving houses out of your re by lenski · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Hello, baby boomer here...

    I wish I could criticize your post beyond being a bit exaggerated...

    There are huge numbers of boom-generation people hanging on to what remains of their work lives and careers by the last millimeter of their fingernails. Add to that the fact that there's no such thing as a "savings account" any more: The only way to not fall behind inflation (see paragraph below) is to "invest" in equity, bond and/or international markets. Those markets are gyrating madly and some who needed to see a bit of safety for their 10 year money bought into the real estate market. They hope to put their hard-earned savings into a material investment vehicle they could see (and not evaporate suddenly), that should at least keep up with inflation. Some of them bought into the explosive adjustable rate mortgages, having been lied to by the fuckheads selling those (IMHO) fraudulent loans. My wife and I bought a house (using our 30+ years of savings) for that reason, though we would never get sucked into such a sick excuse for a loan.

    Now about inflation: I think I agree that easily shippable goods have experienced reduction of inflation due to the Amazons of the world. But let's not be confused about "inflation". My wife and I have experienced increases in the costs of stuff we cannot do without far far in excess of "inflation". These things are things that cannot be shipped from countries engaged in "the race to the bottom": Medical insurance, taxes (property, sales, etc.), communication (I am a developer, my wife is a psychologist. There is no business without it.) We are grateful that another source of monstrous and damaging inflation, education (also local and increasingly profit driven) is not killing us financially as it is so many others.

    My observation is that inflation has developed a bimodal distribution: services that can only be acquired locally have a high inflation rate, while goods or services that can be globalized have a low inflation rate.

    Bottom line: Some unwise boomers didn't save and may have taken advantage of the bullshit loans, which contributed to the meltdown; I suppose the temptation of a McMansion might be part of it. I pin blame for the meltdown on the lying thieving bankster fuck heads (if I believed in Hell, they belong there, they knew exactly what they were doing to their mark^H^H^H^Hcustomers). There are also "wise" boomers that have savings who are getting fucked over by the lack of any investment vehicles that can be trusted in less than 20 year time horizon.

  22. Amazon increases scale by RhettLivingston · · Score: 1

    Anytime the scale is increased and there is a competitor (both Walmart and the "competition" of all brick and mortar versus online are Amazon competitors), prices will be under pressure to stay low and can be kept that way in this case both by reduction in costs (no store fronts in prime locations) and by voluntary reduction in profit margins.

    This is nothing new. If you look at what we have today versus 50 years ago from an absolute point of view instead of a relative to others of the same day point of view, we've experienced tremendous deflation. This is what tech does. It will inevitably end in either our destruction or everything eventually being free.

  23. Isn't this Capitalism? by zennling · · Score: 1

    Global competition, cheaper prices, customer choice - aren't these the very tenets of Capitalism that has been lauded for so long? So now *too much* Capitalism is a bad thing?

    1. Re:Isn't this Capitalism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      yes, except make-believe credit stolen from people who are rightfully owed it in the first place ...is more like inland piracy on a global basis.

      (maxim of law, common law of the land paraphrase "he whose assets are at risk [for a loan] should receive the benefits thereof" www.dict.org "maxim", bouviers law dictionary)

      actual capital...means something of substance. "Credit" is when you are short...you come back later and pay with gold (e.g. see clint eastwood preacher movie, i forget the title).

      in this case, the shopkeepers and "banks" are all broke...they really took all the gold and actual money...

      but they will happily steal your credit and make you work for it, and call it "capitalism" ...

      see also http://mailstar.net/red-symphony.html for some more background on this.

      this is a basically hyper-corrupt super-shady "capitalism" ... but that is how we get "socialism" you see..........so, it is basically on purpose.

      control == more profits, for those on top. 'socialism' and "communism" ==government-granted guaranteed monopoly, for those who "partner" with the "government"

      in short, monopoly capitalism and "socialism" are the same thing (in theory maybe not, but in practice yes, they are bestest of pals, only "fight" for the cameras, at home they are lovers)

      "credit" is basically the opposite of capital. once you have "fractional reserves" and people are just legally counterfeiting and robbing people and enslaving them and "paying" them with "monetized" debt it is less like "capitalism" and more like a concentration camp...again, very 'profitable' for the people running it....everyone else is worked to death, never really gets "paid" .........

      so, it is that kind of "capitalism" i suppose, the concentration camp kind.

    2. Re:Isn't this Capitalism? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      basically, if it was actual capitalism theyd be paying us silver and gold coins...but, they are all bankrupt for over a century (world over).

      so, they steal everyones credit, pool it together in "socialist" fashion so it is centrally-managed and they can purposely "inflate" as needed or "deflate" to force "full employment" etc. , and make everyone work for what is already legally and lawfully theirs. they just dont tell anyone that.

      so, it is more like "they are all bankrupt, and refuse to pay their debts, and will send their army after you if you try to make them" ............so, that kind of "capitalism" i suppose.......

      more like generations of crooks and hucksters, guilty of numerous bankruptcy frauds.

      see also www.annavonreitz.com

  24. The REAL cause of disinflation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody's gotten a raise in decades in real terms. Wages and salaries stagnate.

    As a result, who can afford to pay higher prices for anything?

  25. Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electronics droppi by Kjella · · Score: 1

    Meanwhile. a lot of ordinary people, especially those in minimum wage jobs, have extreme difficulty paying for basic necessities. Is there an inflation index for necessities, i.e. food/shelter/clothing and transportation?

    Sounds like a difficult figure to calculate, but you can look at percentage of spending. The lowest quartile spend ~35% of their income on food and that's relatively stable. In 1992 the AAA's driving cost gave a composite index of 38.8 cents/mile for 15k miles, which put into an inflation calculator is 67.9 cents in 2017 dollars while for 2017 it's 56.6 cents. Basic clothing I didn't really find any great statistics for and is hard to separate from design and fashion clothes but labor costs have been pretty flat from the 80s to 2010 which indicates prices on basic clothing wouldn't really get much better either. Price per square feet for a new home is also pretty flat in real dollars, even though the number of square feet per home and per person is growing.

    In summary, living on minimum wage wasn't easy a few decades ago, it's still not easy now. It's hard to find some figure that's significantly worse though, though increasing disparity may in itself be a problem if you feel "everybody else" can afford to drink their coffee at Starbucks except you. That's what drives most people into financial disaster, if you accept the social stigma of being poor and just blatantly say you can't afford it you'll probably do okay. It's those who have to try pretending they have money when they don't who bury themselves in credit card debt and end up in a quagmire they never get out of. I have one buddy that is like that, he's made some life choices which has left him quite far behind us financially. And nobody's pushing him to spend, but he's constantly overextending himself.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  26. Strange to blame Amazon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    for a problem when they already know the cause - oversupply of both goods and labor.

  27. Horse hockey by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So many of your examples picked high-end versions of products: V8 in the 1974 Maverick, hard disk in the 1983 PC, plasma TV in 2007. When you make it so clear that you don't comprehend what "basic" means, you also demonstrate why you fail to grasp how fungibility is holding down inflation.

    I know a pair of economists who bought a Maverick back in 1975 and a Focus in 2015. While I don't know what they paid in 1975 for their new, 4-cylinder Maverick with AM-only radio, I know that in 2015 they only paid $12,000 USD for a new Focus. They accomplished this miracle because they understand what 'basic' means. Basic transportation doesn't mean luxury options like a V8 engine, an automatic transmission, a radio that can get FM, or (in 2015) remote door locks.

    Of course they also never made the bone headed mistake of considering cable TV a "basic necessity" and I think they got their first cellphone in 2016 ... naturally it's a prepaid $3-per-month plan on T-Mobile with nary a web browser in sight.

  28. Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electronics droppi by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    The price rise from $4,000 to $20,000 over 43 years is below 4%/year, and you're getting a somewhat better car. The focus is available in a rage of prices, from $13650 to $36995.

    4% a year is not outrageously high, although it is excessive: should be zero.

    --
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  29. Inflation increasing cost of a basket of goods by FeelGood314 · · Score: 1

    There was a time 300 years ago when food was over 50% of a median person's spending. For 250 years the price of food dropped but now it only makes up a small portion of the basket because I can only eat so much. Housing on the edge of a city hasn't gone up faster than inflation and if we define the cost of housing in terms of distance to the edge of the urban area it isn't going up that fast. One other point about housing in North America is that the amount of space per person has increased significantly. So outside of urban cores, the cost per square foot may not have kept up with inflation. Cars - The car that is in the basket of goods today is a far better car than the one 30 years ago. It is more reliable, will last longer, pollutes less, has air conditioning, is far safer, gets more gas mileage, etc.,br> There has always be some part of the basket of goods that the consumer uses that drops in price. This won't lead to deflation over all though because I can only have so many TVs, computers and Spotify accounts. Maybe initially the drop in price will cause me to buy more of these goods but in the long run the portion of my spending on them will decrease and I will spend more on something else that has probably gone up in price. On exception to this is anything that rapidly decrease energy or transportation costs. Then we could have deflation - no canals, rail roads and internal combustion engines did not rapidly decrease transportation costs, they took many decades. Nuclear almost gave us cheap power in the late 60s but the environmentalists killed that (and saved the coal industry).

  30. Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electronics droppi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there an inflation index for necessities, i.e. food/shelter/clothing and transportation?

    for food there likely is, this is official "inflation" numbers i believe is based on "commodities"

    of course, that is > 2000% (roughly $1 silver dollar, specie, silver coin, an actual dollar == roughly $20 FRNs or make-believe "credit") .....

    so, to compare actual inflation (siphoned off wealth by the banksters for generations), first divide any numbers by 20, to get rough "actual dollar".

    once you are back in reality, then a $800,000 home is supposed to be $40000, a $20000 car is supposed to be $1000, etc.

    at this point, you are probably foaming at the mouth and ready to strangle any "banker" who is not only counterfeiting dollars, siphoning off 20x of everything, but also having the nerve to charge "interest" on the make-believe "credit" they make up out of thin air.

    also, (paraphrase) "he whose assets are at risk [for a loan] should receive the benefits thereof" www.dict.org, bouvers law dictionary, "maxim" (these are common alw of the land, see also "specie" and "paper money" )

    at this point, you will see people are owed all the "national debt" as "credit" ... because that is stealing of people's credit. and they are owed taking of private property (debt free specie, actual dollars) for public use...such is allowed, but people need to be compensated for that 2000% taking .

    so, once you know reality of "dollars" ...i think your worries of "inflation" are miniscule.

    we are talking 18 trillion (just current number) of fraud.

    technically this is "press ganging" (inland piracy) ...$50 is capital offense. so, as a final calculation, divide 18 trillion by $50 to see how many times the banksters should be "hung at the liberty tree"

    also good (paraphrase) "a delegate cannot delegate" (implies exclusion of anyone not named) ... so "Federal Reserve Board" and Andrew Jackson's comment (paraphrase) "if they [congress] has the power to print currency, it was meant for them to use themselves, not to grant to a bank" was solid basis in law too.

    see www.annavonreitz.com if you would like to see more actual law and dollars and war crimes going back centuries.

  31. Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electronics droppi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is there an inflation index for necessities, i.e. food/shelter/clothing and transportation?

    also see www.annavonreitz.com on that too...there is a committee tasked with this...but with everything being make-believe "credit" nowadays (not "Cash" and not "specie" just imaginary siphoned off credit that people have to "work" for and pay "interest" on credit that is rightfully theirs in the first place) .............the committees trying to decide the worth of things has basically said they dont know anymore....

    so, there would be one........but none of the "dollars" have had any basis in reality for a long time.

    long story short, if you can get central banks everywhere, and inflate at the same rate...and ban everything else (or at least, mandate your funny money as "legal tender") .....then you can just siphon off/prnit funny money forever and ever, at least theoretically....enforced at gun point, but in that sense, your "dollars" may be worthless, but you just make everyone elses as worthless

    (if that sounds conspiracy-ish, central bankers have actually done this before...inflation is less bad if everyone else is equally worthless, and people have no choice...)

    so, if they have their way, they kind of factored that in already.....that it will always just be made up...but everyone else will be worthless too! so they can just loot and steal forever.

  32. Re: That's not what's driving houses out of your r by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You need to watch or read The Big Short

  33. "So cheap" ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Are we talking about the same Amazon whose prices are higher than most other stores? Who seriously thinks Amazon has cheap prices? Walmart is much cheaper pretty much always.

  34. Maybe you're too damn cheap while out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've never had food poisoning. Where the hell have you been eating?

    1. Re:Maybe you're too damn cheap while out by slazzy · · Score: 1

      Depends how healthy you are too. I never did until I started taking a medication that lowers my immune system, now I have 3 times in 5 years.

      --
      Website Just Down For Me? Find out
  35. moronizationXunisiih by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    gee what shitty explanation, just look statistics of salaries of common folk vs top earners... its pretty much clear that since 1970's in western world, some countries its dated decade or two later, has crunched through inflation to point where average peep actually has so much less to spend theyre forced to look up cheapest shit they can find... and thus retail surplus that used to be there is diminishin, that top 1% of high income population simply doesnt buy 20x more diswashers and tv's+beds and what not than average joe...

    thus rate of money in circulation in masses slow down... and eventually its going to hit deflation where rich dangle dollar in front of poor to do their bidding... and next day its 90cents...

  36. Margins v inflation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lowering prices vs other end point delivery services is not related to inflation at all. It is a price change.

    Inflation is always and forever monetary. Changes in the monetary base for the fiat currency (USD, GBP, EU, YEN, whatever). When central banks print money, or virtual money they create inflation. That makes goods and services more expensive and the segment of society least able to cope is the poor and the middle class. Yellen targeting 2% inflation is a war on the poor.

    Amazon is pulling a Wal-Mart by eliminating the middleman and increasing concentration of distribution centres and performing some of the endpoint delivery functions. They also squeeze their vendors to produce in low income countries which is of questionable ethics and patriotism and even self interest as the domestic market they serve becomes systematically poorer.

    Having a degree in this stuff just pisses me off. I suggest drinking.

  37. Impersonating me? Weak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: Whoever the fool is attempting to "impersonate me" only proves that I've REALLY 'gotten to them' somehow (thanks).

    * I am with you on something though - there is a TON of bogus downmoderation but as the saying goes? "When all your opposition has is censorship you've obviously won" (& I am highly against the LOON(s) who shot all those folks up in Vegas - I think it's somekind of falseflag OR an attempt @ further dividing our nation up ala the KING of bogus evil in that capacity, George Soros paying off groups like BLM & Antifa to do so...) - but GUNS DON'T KILL PEOPLE - people do. NO reason to ban guns!

    As far as "AssFux" Ash-Fox? That whimp's a weasel who ALWAYS starts w/ me (he's 'butthurt' I've busted him up on tech issues is all that is)...

    APK

    P.S.=> Provoking weasel reactions like yours is all the satisfaction anyone needs... apk

  38. Low demand causes deflation, not low cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Quite simply, this is wrong. Inflation, or deflation, happens due to demand driving prices up, or lack of demand driving prices down.
    Lowered costs can decrease inflation and inflationary pressure, but it cannot drive deflation. The reason why should be easy to understand.
    Costs can push inflation, but they cannot pull deflation.
    Assuming constant demand, costs increase for Producer X so it increases prices, reducing supply sold to that constant demand.
    Assuming constant demand, costs decrease for Producer X so it has two options: take the Profit from those decreased costs, or decrease the price. If it decreases the price, assuming constant demand, it will sell more so supply will increase.
    Let's assume that demand is not constant. For cost decreases to pull deflation, demand would have to also be lowered due to that cost decrease. When costs actually decrease, what likely happens instead is that consumption is then shifted into other areas. Even if that consumption is shifted into savings instead, that is not caused by the decreased costs, but by lack of demand. In essence, a shift into savings is a shift of present consumption to future consumption.
    This idea is pernicious and idiotic: it's similar to the lump of labor fallacy, arguing that the reason for the global deflation we are facing is anything, ANYTHING other than the fact that demand is low because people are poor and can't spend money due to the growing wealth inequality in developed countries. The only way to turn it around is for governments to quit this austerity idiocy and spend money to get out of these deflationary spirals.

    1. Re:Low demand causes deflation, not low cost by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      While technically correct, in the shorter term it takes markets a while to adjust. If the costs shrinks faster than the adjustment pace can absorb it, then lower costs can cause deflation or sub-part inflation.

      can't spend money due to the growing wealth inequality in developed countries. The only way to turn it around is for governments to quit this austerity idiocy and spend money to get out of these deflationary spirals.

      I agree that austerity makes it worse, but we can't do massive government spending because of the debt problem we are in.

      There are two other solutions: 1, tax the rich, and 2, print more money (AKA "helicopter theory"). I say let's try both.

  39. Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electronics droppi by hjf · · Score: 1

    amazon is not "significant" outside US...

  40. How is that supposed to work? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Amazon can't lower the increasing costs of basic goods because of climate change, environmental deterioration, raw materials depletion, nationalist idiocy and wars. Most of what Amazon sells aren't basic goods, and gadgets shouldn't count much toward a meaningful inflation rate.
    Also, how would lowering the exchange rate of the US dollar against other global currencies lower the global inflation rate? Does not compute.

  41. Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electronics droppi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why the fuck is this modded -1? Its not trolling, its not offensive..its quite insightful. Some moderator clearly has a political position that was offended by this information. Fuck you. Mod that in your ass.

  42. It's not Amazon, ir's the removal of labor by ErichTheRed · · Score: 1

    What a lot of people aren't seeing is that Amazon is slowly working towards removing all of the overhead involved in distribution of goods. Eventually, Amazon's private air cargo service can pick up a few pallets of Chinese manufactured goods directly from a supplier it practically controls, ship them on their own carrier to their own warehouses, and eventually use their own delivery service to get them to your door. At every step in this process, they've removed overhead and labor form the process. The supplier is under similar terms that Walmart extracted from them years ago, so they're making a tiny profit on their finished goods or selling at a loss to get product placement. If Amazon isn't paying shipping companies to send their goods to the US, then those shipping company employees don't have jobs. Once the goods are in the warehouses, Amazon uses their near monopoly power on low-skilled labor to drive the box-packers as hard as possible. And of course, there aren't any store employees or stores in Amazon's system (yes, they now own a grocery chain, I know...that's going to be a whole new universe of disruption.)

    It's just end-stage capitalism. No one will be able to afford any goods once all their jobs are gone. I just don't think we're ready for the level of hardship everyone is going to experience. The vast majority of jobs are middle-man in nature. Some are huge wastes of money- just look at realtors and insurance brokers - but that doesn't mean their industry doesn't support millions of good-paying jobs. It's going to be a big culture shock when these jobs move to minimum wage in a warehouse from a nice office and a decent middle class living.

  43. Re:That's not what's driving houses out of your re by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My observation is that inflation has developed a bimodal distribution: services that can only be acquired locally have a high inflation rate, while goods or services that can be globalized have a low inflation rate.

    Mathematician here. This is a minor quibble, but your wife can back me up on this (psychologists are typically pretty good at stats). What you're describing is a unimodal distribution: one maximum and a direct, one-way correlation between variables.

  44. You're kind of missing my point by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    It wasn't the boomer's McMansions that caused the crash. It was their desperate attempt to secure their finances after their pensions were raided by the Bain Capitals of the world.

    I suppose there's a case to be made that the Boomers allowed the deregulation that made that kind of pension raiding possible, but well, there was just a Nobel prize given out for why people make bad decisions. For esoteric financial regulations it can be surprisingly hard to keep them intact, especially when you have multi-millionaires and billionaires attacking them non-stop.

    What I'm saying is those boomers weren't necessarily any wiser, they were just lucky. A savings account was never going to see you through retirement. That's why folks came up with pensions in the first place. And that's why an entire industry sprouted up to raid those pensions...

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  45. sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every economy story on Slashdot becomes a shit storm of ignorance.

    What the article is describing is basically an improvement in information. A competitive market with perfect information would cause deflation. What we are seeing is that we are a little bit closer to perfect information with all the price comparison websites out there. It's not even an interesting or original insight, it's Economics 101.

  46. QE by inking · · Score: 1

    I am not fully getting the link he is trying to establish. Inflation is a result of increased monetary supply, which has been controlled by the central banks—depending on how you want to see it—the *latest* with the introduction of the floating exchange rates. This article makes it seem like inflation is somehow reduced by increasing productivity, specifically by reducing the costs of basket products as opposed to increasing their quality, i.e. cheaper things of the same quality every year rather than identically priced items of higher quality every year. That is completely besides the point and has nothing to do with the reason we have low inflation rates, being quantitative easing.

  47. Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electronics droppi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why the fuck is this modded -1?

    It was not moderated at all. Check the history for yourself. Roman posts at -1 because his karma is in the toilet here on slashdot. He earned that awful karma by attempting to turn slashdot into a recruitment tool for his favorite cult, and for his general degree of extreme dickishness towards people who disagree with him.

    The comment you are looking at is just roman doing some karma whoring, in the hopes of getting an approving moderation to help move his score back up towards posting at zero. He also at times feels that his recitations of the gospel are too important to wait for that to happen, which drives him to use at least one known sock puppet account.

  48. Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electronics droppi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Meanwhile. a lot of ordinary people, especially those in minimum wage jobs, have extreme difficulty paying for basic necessities. Is there an inflation index for necessities, i.e. food/shelter/clothing and transportation? And by transportation, I mean local stuff.

    The US BLS has some papers on this. See the article by Jonathan Church for a starting point. They include food, energy (not just heating/cooling/lights, also transportation), and health care.

    I don't know how accurate these indices are. Energy as a measure of transportation costs seems especially suspect. In many places, policies such as rent control have forced people into longer commutes since they can no longer get housing in the community where they work - low income workers are the most affected. In other cases, policies such as minimum wage have forced people to work multiple part time jobs as a result of losing work hours in a primary job, again leading to additional commuting time. This is primarily something that affects low income workers. Thus, measuring the true cost of transportation seems likely to be higher than just the average cost of some unit of energy. Also, additional commuting time means more traffic, more stress, more road rage, more health issues, so it plays into the overall cost of living in complex ways.

    But even ignoring all this, the evidence presented by the BLS is that basic necessities are going up faster than overall inflation. If we took the real cost of transportation into account, it would only make the conclusion more compelling.

    Also, there are certainly other things that need to be considered as basic necessities. Things like auto repair, glass repair, plumbing (including heating and cooling), electrical repair, appliance repair, roof repair, and general handymen services are also essentials for many people (basically everyone not renting - the costs of these services also indirectly affect the rent levels). In many places, these costs have also significantly outpaced general inflation.

    Clothing is yet another issue - certainly a necessity, especially in cold climates. Other fabrics are also important, including blankets for cold winter nights (and good curtains for northern homes, which can significantly reduce heating costs). There are big problems, however, in comparing the price of clothing and other fabrics. A lot of stuff today (especially that in the big box stores) is shoddy quality, arguably a lot lower quality than what was routinely available at certain points in the past. But some is decent. So the actual cost of comparable clothing is difficult to estimate.

    Quality in general affects these comparisons in complex ways. We shouldn't, for example, consider unhealthy food a "basic necessity" - but not everyone agrees on what is healthy.

  49. Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electronics droppi by UnderCoverPenguin · · Score: 1

    The price rise from $4,000 to $20,000

    The Ford Maverick ($4000 in 1974) was not an entry level car. It was a high performance car. The Ford Focus ($20,000 now) is an entry level car

    To get a real comparison, you would need to determine what 2017 car is the equivalent to the 1974 Maverick. I don't know.

    However, according to http://www.usinflationcalculat... $4000 in 1974 would be almost $20,000 in 2017. I'm sure that whatever the equivalent 1974 car to the 2017 Focus was less than $4000.

    --
    Don't try to out wierd me, three-eyes. I get stranger things than you, free with my breakfast cereal. --Zaphod Beeblebr
  50. Patents are obsolete. [Re:No] by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Inventions happen whether there are wealthy patrons or not. Most inventions are not from "big labs", but rather either serendipity, or some technician trying to solve a specific problem for a specific product. I bet there would be more innovation if we didn't have a patent system. Smaller co's would be able to mix and match existing ideas without paying an arm and leg in royalties to conglomerates.

  51. Cars [Re:Low inflation is bogus; only electroni by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Ford Maverick was a piece of junk, maintenance-wise. Most of today's cars are far more reliable than the 1970's, and thus I'm not sure it's an even compare. But I have noticed that minivan prices seem to either be dropping or staying below inflation for the last 20 years.

    Another thing is, since cars last longer, most "low end" car shoppers buy used. It's value depreciates quickly the first few years. Today's 5 year old car is probably on par or better than the reliability of new cars of the 70's. Therefore, car manufacturers target more financially established buyers. The new-vs-used curve has shifted.

    In fact, a new car is a bad deal relative to say a 4-year-old car in terms of total cost. People buy new for the status, not from sound wallet logic. (If your job requires timeliness, then reliably may trump cost, but that's an exception.)

    In short, the example was comparing apples to lemons.

  52. Correction [Re:Cars [Re:Low inflation is bogus by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Correction

    Re: "It's value depreciates quickly the first few years" is supposed to go after "a new car is a bad deal..."