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PSA: Microsoft Is Using Cortana To Read Your Private Skype Conversations (betanews.com)

BrianFagioli shares a report from BetaNews: With Cortana's in-context assistance, it's easier to keep your conversations going by having Cortana suggest useful information based on your chat, like restaurant options or movie reviews. And if you're in a time crunch? Cortana also suggests smart replies, allowing you to respond to any message quickly and easily -- without typing a thing," says The Skype Team. The team further says, "Cortana can also help you organize your day -- no need to leave your conversations. Cortana can detect when you're talking about scheduling events or things you have to do and will recommend setting up a reminder, which you will receive on all your devices that have Cortana enabled. So, whether you're talking about weekend plans or an important work appointment, nothing will slip through the cracks."

So, here's the deal, folks. In order for this magical "in-context" technology to work, Cortana is constantly reading your private conversations. If you use Skype on mobile to discuss private matters with your friends or family, Cortana is constantly analyzing what you type. Talking about secret business plans with a colleague? Yup, Microsoft's assistant is reading those too. Don't misunderstand -- I am not saying Microsoft has malicious intent by adding Cortana to Skype; the company could have good intentions. With that said, there is the potential for abuse. Microsoft could use Cortana's analysis to spy on you for things like advertising or worse, and that stinks. Is it really worth the risk to have smart replies and suggested calendar entries? I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have my Skype conversations read by Microsoft.

180 comments

  1. Any LOVEINT ? by klingens · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We all should know what LOVEINT is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
    And it's not only NSA agents who use the tools of their job to check on all kinds of people they know. Cops to the same, to check if any new girlfriend has prior convictions or only arrests, etc. Data exists, so it will be used.
    Are the employees of (in alphabetical order) Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Samsung, etc.who have access to Cortana, Siri, GMail, Bixbx,etc. databases doing the same? Are there even any safeguards against it?

    1. Re:Any LOVEINT ? by sacrilicious · · Score: 1

      Are the employees of...Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Samsung... doing the same?

      Not a doubt in my mind, and don't forget FACEBOOK.

      --
      - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    2. Re:Any LOVEINT ? by OYAHHH · · Score: 1

      > Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Samsung,

      blah blah blah.....

      Personally I'm worried about MsMash reading my /. posts without my knowledge.

      --
      Caution: Contents under pressure
    3. Re:Any LOVEINT ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every time I use the "speech to text" of my phone, either Google or Samsung or some other keyboard company is "listening" and "decoding". Sure, it's not a complete conversation since they don't get the "other side" but I know the risks when I use it, and I'm okay with that.

      Nobody told me about Skype, but I assumed everyone was always listening from day 1. PCLink, anyone? AOL? 300bps modem "chatter"?

    4. Re:Any LOVEINT ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cortana is one reason I retreated to 8.1. Then I turned off a whole bunch of 'services'. My Microsoft partition hasn't been used in months and when it comes on cannot connect to the internet. My Linux laptop has the camera and mic disable at the kernel level (look up modprobe and blacklist). If I want to take a picture I have a phone, with a cover in my pocket, so not much information. I even disable the GPS location feature. To much of my private business is out there. I work on making less.

    5. Re: Any LOVEINT ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trust your security to Monkeyshit Corp, where smelly shitty hindu-chimps outsource all your secrets to Hindustan, to terrorists and to such shit.

      If you are paying for Winblows, you are sponsoring terrorism and invasion by smelly shitty hindu-chimps.

    6. Re: Any LOVEINT ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Overdoing it

  2. Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Don't use skype, it's terrible anyway.

    1. Re: Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Agreed. I get around this by sending all my communications through gmail.

    2. Re: Solution by Bongo · · Score: 1

      Agreed. I get around this by sending all my communications through gmail.

      I send all my private conversations through Skynet.

      Because there's nobody there listening and deciding whether my life is a biological dead end.

      Oh...

    3. Re:Solution by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      Ever since I heard Microsoft was turning Skype from a peer-to-peer architecture, where the clients directly transferred video/audio to each other, to a client-server model where all the video/audio passes through a server, I knew this was going to happen. Really.

    4. Re:Solution by cheesybagel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Quoting Wikipedia:
      "Skype was the first peer-to-peer IP telephony network. The network contains three types of entities: supernodes, ordinary nodes, and the login server. Each client maintains a host cache with the IP address and port numbers of reachable supernodes. The Skype user directory is decentralized and distributed among the supernodes in the network.
      Previously any client with good bandwidth, no restrictions due to firewall or network address translation (NAT), and adequate processing power could become a supernode. This placed an extra burden on those who connected to the Internet without NAT, as Skype used their computers and Internet connections as third parties for UDP hole punching (to directly connect two clients both behind NAT) or to completely relay other users' calls. In 2012, Microsoft altered the design of the network, and brought all supernodes under their control as hosted servers in data centres. Microsoft at the time defended the move, saying they "believe this approach has immediate performance, scalability and availability benefits for the hundreds of millions of users that make up the Skype community." At the time there was some concern regarding the privacy implications of the change, which appear to have been proven true with the revelation of the PRISM surveillance program in June 2013."

    5. Re:Solution by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Skype is awful. But if your concern is corporate spying, then don't use Cortana (or Siri, or Bixby, etc.)

    6. Re:Solution by umghhh · · Score: 1

      This I have to agree. We have moved trough a series of applications to chat, share etc and each one was different but as soon as we moved to skype we noticed the communication was shit. Speech was shitty before esp. if you had bad vlan connection but that I expected. I have quite good connection and I was surprised that skype still indicated bad one. The quality of speech was as expected in such situation. The slow and the ugly is also not switching fast enough between tabs which results in sometimes funny situations - good that I am known from loose language and strange sense of humour here or else there would be trouble I am sure. Other than that it is perfect app. I almost love it... Pity it is worse than anything else I am using except maybe whatsapp on my phone which is crap too although in different ways.

    7. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The reason Microsoft bought Skype was because a three-letter agency wanted to get rid of the problem of being unable to listen to Skype calls easily.

      The reason Microsoft bought Nokia was because a three-letter agency wanted to get rid of a mobile phone ecosystem that they couldn't so easily snoop (because Nokia was not an US company)

      Nokia is basically gone, everyone is using Android and iOS - US-controlled platforms that three-letter agencies can put under their thumb legally. Skype is now trivially easy to snoop - just get a secret court to issue some paperwork and MS will happily give you everything.

    8. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really a problem with windows 10 since even if not enabled is still executing, is like the explorer and the internet explorer.

    9. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nokia networks is still quite alive and HMD global has released new phones with Nokia badge (Android).

    10. Re:Solution by godefroi · · Score: 1

      Explorer is the shell; of course it's always executing.

      --
      Karma: Poor (Mostly affected by lame karma-joke sigs)
    11. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nokia networks is a separate company that has nothing really to do with mobile phones / mobile phone OSes.

      HMD global is just yet another android OEM - software side is pure Google so three letter agencies do not care about it one bit.

    12. Re:Solution by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      Alexa told me I could trust her with confidential data...
      she also told me about a sale on encrypted thumb drives!

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    13. Re:Solution by OYAHHH · · Score: 1

      Skype is completely unuseable now. Whatsapp requires you have your phone on to access the PC app which is not acceptable.

      Trying one at a time. If you could save me a moment of time what would be your recommended app?

      --
      Caution: Contents under pressure
    14. Re: Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Irc.

    15. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      jitsi.org

      Multi-platform, multi-protocol, ZRTP end-to-end encrypted audio & video. Use XMPP servers for rendezvous.

    16. Re:Solution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That makes no sense. WHY would it always run when I replaced it with a different shell?

  3. Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That evil spell checker is scanning all the documents I type, and it's even scanning things outside my word processor!
    What about the virus checker looking at all my binaries and the firewall looking at all my packets....

    Looking at you keyboard buffer.... holding onto every press.... every dark secret....

    1. Re:Evil Spell checker by phayes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Idiot AC doesn't understand the difference between a local only spell checker and Cortana which is listening to every Skype call and sending it to Microsoft. Or has Microsoft changed the spell checker to be evil too?

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    2. Re:Evil Spell checker by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      That evil spell checker is scanning all the documents I type, and it's even scanning things outside my word processor!

      My spell checker doesn't have network connectivity and scans only things on my local system. It is entirely under my control and none of the terms that it learns are transmitted externally. Something like Cortana would be very useful if it worked the same way: learning things about my workflow on my own device, not in someone else's computer.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    3. Re:Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cortana which is listening to every Skype call

      It is? Where does it say that?

    4. Re:Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Idiot AC doesn't understand the difference between a local only spell checker and Cortana which is listening to every Skype call and sending it to Microsoft. Or has Microsoft changed the spell checker to be evil too?

      Microsoft stole Google's evil bit.

    5. Re:Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um...you do realize they were being facetious, right?

      Maybe they forgot the /s.

    6. Re:Evil Spell checker by Bert64 · · Score: 1

      Actually, simply by using skype you were already sending every conversation to microsoft...
      Cortana now just parses some of that data in a user-visible way.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    7. Re:Evil Spell checker by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Unless your "spell checker" is open source and your OS is too, you don't know how it works.

    8. Re: Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft just has custody on weekdays, google on weekends and holidays.

    9. Re: Evil Spell checker by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      When they do have the evil bit, they are properly called Micro$oft.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    10. Re:Evil Spell checker by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      However, we do know how Cortana et. al. works.

    11. Re:Evil Spell checker by Jerry · · Score: 2

      Everyone seems to have forgotten that Microsoft patented "Legal Intercept" at around the the time they bought Skype, and they have it running on their Skype servers. Microsoft, or anyone they allow (hint: gov types), can eaves drop on any Skype conversation because Legal Intercept bypasses encryption.

      --

      Running with Linux for over 20 years!

    12. Re:Evil Spell checker by umghhh · · Score: 1

      I thought legal intercept was a legal as with law and stuff sort of requirement that forced companies working in communication to provide LI interfaces to authorities. In old times a court order was necessary to use that. Now I guess some evil AI is setting the spy bits. I dislike M$ because that is what learned to feel when I was young. It is better SW now but the shit practice is still there. I would be surprised tho if spying was not common for all of them, whether legally ordered or just for business purpose. Meatbags love free as in beer so no complaints are heard.

    13. Re:Evil Spell checker by gsslay · · Score: 1

      If anyone is interesting in actually reading what Microsoft says about this, they'll see it is an entirely optional addition that the user has to turn on and agree to.

      If you don't want Cortana reading your Skype messages, then don't switch the option to tell Cortana to read your Skype messages. What's difficult to understand about that?

    14. Re:Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Hyperbole is never your friend. I worked at a telecom equipment provider years ago, long before Microsoft owned skype and one feature I helped implement, the entire team knew was to go into expanding the legal intercept capability in our platform even though nobody wanted to say that's what it was for. We even knew which country had requested the expansion (no, it wasn't the US, it was a country in the EU). That being said, legal intercept has been a thing in one form or another since at least the 70s, probably a whole lot longer.

    15. Re:Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Idiot AC doesn't understand the difference between a local only spell checker and Cortana which is listening to every Skype call and sending it to Microsoft. Or has Microsoft changed the spell checker to be evil too?

      WHOOSH! More clueless comments show up all the time on /. Now the moderation has joined in so that a total WHOOSH is 4, insightful!

    16. Re:Evil Spell checker by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      If anyone is interesting in actually reading what Microsoft says about this, they'll see it is an entirely optional addition that the user has to turn on and agree to.

      If you don't want Cortana reading your Skype messages, then don't switch the option to tell Cortana to read your Skype messages. What's difficult to understand about that?

      Because they're totally trust worthy. If you think turning it off will turn off anything but the visible benefits to you then you're naive. Cortana is all up in your shit whether you like it or not.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    17. Re: Evil Spell checker by HannethCom · · Score: 1

      Not completely true. You can monitor outgoing traffic to find out if the spell checker is making outbound calls. You used to be able to reliably do this on the physical same box, but Microsoft is making that much harder now. That being said, another computer can be used to monitor everything.
      No, a normal person probably couldn't do this, but all it takes is one tech person to investigate. Your normal person also isn't going to be looking at the open source code.

      --
      Microsoft, Apple, Google, Amazon what's the difference? All steal money from devs and control with walled gardens.
    18. Re:Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      .. and don't forget to reset your privacy settings after each Microsoft Update...

    19. Re: Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The people that do investigate seem to stop suddenly for no apparent reason... usually after posting a wireshark trace...

    20. Re:Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No they just accidentally have the appearance of being in tune with other companies, what really happened is they copied googles "don't be evil" moto from half a decade ago, but being Microsoft they copied it wrong of course, giving the false impression that they are "current".

    21. Re:Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't have to, I only need to know that it's not sending out network packets.

      It's as though you don't understand a thing about computers or how to use one.

    22. Re:Evil Spell checker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody said they can't listen to calls. you seem to have forgotten that that's not the point. He said they listen to every call. Now go ahead and squirm and say "that's effectively the same thing" rather than admit you're wrong.

  4. This is surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Certain users are constantly surprised that their complete abdication of personal liability in their wild rush to consume as much technology as possible in order to remain 'relevant' has led them to engage in something spectacularly stupid.

    This isn't news. This is olds.

    1. Re:This is surprising by schleimkeim · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And yet it is surprising to a lot of people.

    2. Re:This is surprising by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

      And yet it is surprising to a lot of people.

      Those people shouldn't be here, this is 2003-era information for nerds.

    3. Re:This is surprising by schleimkeim · · Score: 1

      Of course they shouldn't be here (or anywhere else...) Have you seen how many commenters here own an amazon echo? We live in The Brave New World.

  5. Good intentions don't matter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Don't misunderstand -- I am not saying Microsoft has malicious intent by adding Cortana to Skype; the company could have good intentions.

    Intentions don't matter once a National Security Letter trundles in. Then only ability matters.

    And that's even before Microsoft gets hacked.

    1. Re:Good intentions don't matter by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      "gets"?

      More like "finally reveals they were hacked X day, weeks, months, etc ago"

  6. reason to ditch skype for good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ive been itching to press that trigger to make skype go away completely, i just dont use it anymore since its kinda bloat and just bad, but this adds one more coffin nail to the skype thingie

    buhbye skype it was fun while it lasted, ill stick to discord

    1. Re:reason to ditch skype for good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > buhbye skype it was fun while it lasted, ill stick to discord
      That's like saying goodbye to cancer and hello to AIDS.

  7. thats why i will never use skype by FudRucker · · Score: 0

    and i wont get an amazon alexa or any other brand of smart speaker/mic thing, they are just corporate/government spy bots

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
  8. Sounds familiar by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Don't misunderstand -- I am not saying Microsoft has malicious intent by adding Cortana to Skype; the company could have good intentions.

    Where did I hear that before... Oh yeah, something along the lines of "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
    1. Re:Sounds familiar by OneHundredAndTen · · Score: 1

      Don't misunderstand -- I am not saying Microsoft has malicious intent by adding Cortana to Skype; the company could have good intentions.

      Where did I hear that before... Oh yeah, something along the lines of "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

      For profit companies do not have good intentions. Their only intent is to maximize profit for their shareholders. It does not matter if this aligns with their customers' needs. Their customers' needs are nothing but a byproduct of their activities, not a necessary, or even sought-after, outcome. They will do whatever it takes, good or bad, moral or immoral, within the law, to attain profit maximization. In the case of many companies, Microsoft included, going without the law is standard operational procedure as well, their philosophy being that, as long as they don't get caught, anything goes.

  9. Cloud vs. Local by DrYak · · Score: 4, Informative

    None of the current crop of assistants (Cortana, Siri, Alexa, OkGoole!, or even just speech engines like Houndify and Dragon Dictate) does run locally except for extremely simple processing (like google detecting locally the "Ok, Google !" stanza, and only starts streaming the audio to the mothership afterwards).

    The text commands and audio are transmitted to the company's cloud, and all further processing (full speech recognition when input is audio, then extracting the meaning/intention from the text, taking a decision, and suggesting actions) is entirely done there.

    Means that for any kind of assistant to work, their company needs necessarily to have received all of your data (voice stream, chat log, etc.)

    And due to the way these thing work (Deep Neural Nets need a big amount of data to train - basically replicating in silico the popular saying that you need to have been doing 10'000 hours of anything to be good at it) they NEED to be centralized on the cloud.
    It's not possible to have the learning done locally on your smartphone : not only it lacks processing power (for the backpropagation in the neural net) but it also lacks the big masses of data to train on.

    So it would NOT be possible to have your very own local copy of Cortana
    (or at least not in learning mode. Maybe GPU acceleration could at least make possible to simply apply an already trained neural net depending on how big cortana is).

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
    1. Re:Cloud vs. Local by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      I dont want a voice ASSISTANT. I want Voice CONTROL. Voice Attack is a perfect example of voice control vs voice assistant. It only runs locally, and only executes commands i have set up for it, and nothing else. It only listens when i explicitly allow it to and i can disable the mic in-program at any time (or choose a different mic). That is the gold standard Cortana and the rest should be aiming for. As it is these assistants dont work for you, they work for their company. Its like having a secretary on premises at your business but they are actually an employee of Amazon, Google, MS etc. and will constantly steer your business to using their services instead of being loyal to you and recommending the best service overall.

      --
      Good-bye
    2. Re:Cloud vs. Local by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      like google detecting locally the "Ok, Google !" stanza, and only starts streaming the audio to the mothership afterwards

      Curious that, I've had friends who have had completely unrelated conversation fragments recorded.

      As for the rest, Microsoft was already analyzing your conversations. KFC ads don't just fucking pop up magically after talking about KFC.

    3. Re:Cloud vs. Local by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do not need to retrain each time you want to make use of your network and make a prediction. An already fitted neural net, deep or not, is usually not very heavy to store nor to use. So the latter half of your comment is not quite correct.

    4. Re:Cloud vs. Local by Cloud+K · · Score: 1

      But with different levels of privacy, transparency and different motivations.

      Apple and Google are actually both very transparent in their privacy policy documents, though I tend to trust the former more simply because the nature of their business is hardware rather than the data economy.

      Worth a read of the Apple one here, they keep what they can to the device and use rotating random IDs to anonymise the queries they do need to send. https://www.apple.com/uk/priva...

    5. Re:Cloud vs. Local by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dont want a voice ASSISTANT. I want Voice CONTROL. Voice Attack is a perfect example of voice control vs voice assistant. It only runs locally, and only executes commands i have set up for it, and nothing else. It only listens when i explicitly allow it to and i can disable the mic in-program at any time (or choose a different mic). That is the gold standard Cortana and the rest should be aiming for. As it is these assistants dont work for you, they work for their company. Its like having a secretary on premises at your business but they are actually an employee of Amazon, Google, MS etc. and will constantly steer your business to using their services instead of being loyal to you and recommending the best service overall.

      Not defending any MS, Google, Amazon, etc., but I sort of understand why they do it. Both voice assistant and control come to the same result -- recognize what you said. Local computation is nice for clients, but it is not logical in the sense of business (for companies/corporations, not for consumer/client oriented). You have to understand how and why they want to analyze your data on their side.

      First, because they develop their own proprietary voice recognition/translation software, they wouldn't want to leave it on a local device. Please don't tell me that they can simply encode it because binaries source code can't lie. In other words, they want to ensure that their algorithm will stay inside.

      Second, it would be much faster to compute the data and transport it back to their consumers instead of compute it locally. As a result, they don't need a powerful device to do the job, and that would reduce their cost to manufacture a device.

      Third, if there is any need of software update, they could simply do it on the server instead of send out update to each device or ask their consumers to update.

      Last, they could improve their software algorithm by learning from their client inputs which come from different types and sources.

      However, the real problem is how to detect or deal with when those companies misuse, abuse, or collect irrelevant data from their consumers. Currently, there is not much anyone can do even by laws. Not all consumers know/understand what they are in for. Some of these consumers know what they are in for but ignore it until something directly related to them happens. Some just want to make noise even though there is nothing to do with them. So if anyone doesn't want to have the problem, the best solution is to NOT BUY or USE any of them, period.

    6. Re:Cloud vs. Local by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Ok, Google !"

      Seriously, that's how you invoke it?... so lame. I guess in the face of NOT AI (because not much of this crap is worth even calling machine learning), short name context based invocation is not possible.

    7. Re:Cloud vs. Local by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple's Siri on Macs, which is powered by Dragon Dictate (which they purchased), does indeed have an option to only perform voice to text dictation using local resources.

  10. Does this even shock anyone? by overlook77 · · Score: 2

    Ever since Snowden I pretty much assume every mouse click, keyboard press, sound, image and video on anything with a power button is potentially being watched.

    1. Re:Does this even shock anyone? by gtall · · Score: 1

      There are potentially pink unicorns as well.

    2. Re:Does this even shock anyone? by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      But are they fluffy?

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    3. Re:Does this even shock anyone? by Cloud+K · · Score: 1

      Please use one word to describe their magical fur.

    4. Re:Does this even shock anyone? by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

      For a lot of folks, Snowden's revelations were merely a confirmation. The things outlined had been technologically feasible for a very long time, and practically all aspects existed in some form in corporate software already. One should assume that they are being watched watched by someone (or at least that the possibility exists), unless you've just completed the process of sealing yourself into a thick lead box.

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
  11. Skype has really gone downhill by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This is just yet another sign of skype's future obsolescence. Skype has been one of those must-have tools for more than a decade - always worked, everyone had it, easy to use, did what it did well, solved a key problem better than anyone had previously done. But recently, it has really gone downhill on all fronts. For the first time in years, I have started having problems connecting with people, supposedly because one or the other isn't on the "correct" version of skype. Microsoft is trying to force people to update to the newest version, supposedly to get enhanced features, but those features in general suck and support for non-core platforms, such as Linux, has gone from bad to miserable. The latest version of skype is much more difficult to visualize and navigate (I hate those new icons), makes you think in order to do things that should be trivial (e.g., talk with someone and send chat messages to them at the same time) and adds a bunch of noisy features to the application that distract from its core abilities (why is it always asking me to send people video messages or add emojis to everything?). If both myself, computer programmer, and my mother, definitely not computer programmer, are confused about how to use skype, there is a serious problem.

    In a vain and desperate attempt to change skype into some sort of mini-facebook or instagram or whatever, Microsoft has committed the cardinal error of making it harder for people to do the things that they installed the application for in the first place. Gobbling up your private data in order to monetize that information can only hasten it's decline...

    1. Re:Skype has really gone downhill by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Skype's React Native Android rewrite is terrible too.

      https://twitter.com/reactnativ...

      React Native loyalists claim this as a sign that React Native is ready for the enterprise. To me it's more like Microsoft use it for platforms they basically don't care about much- iOS and Android and it doesn't do a lot of the stuff the old version did. On the other hand they don't need to employ people to maintain separate native iOS and Android apps anymore.

      I.e. they clearly see the platforms like this

      First class - The latest Microsoft platform
      Second class - Android and iOS. Anything but the latest Microsoft platform.
      Third class - everything else

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  12. Very Clever by ytene · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Anyone who was paying attention at the time would have noticed that shortly after Microsoft acquired Skype, they made a fundamental change to the way the application operates.

    In the original, pre-Microsoft world, when you made a connection to a counter-party for a Skype Call, the client would first check a dynamic, central registry to see if the counter-party could be identified and if they were on line. If these checks were positive, then your client would be given the connection handle [i.e. IP address] to establish a link with the counter-party, before the link to the central servers were dropped. This was a very efficient, effective use of a central directory model, which avoided overloading the central servers with traffic, and which guaranteed the best possible connection quality.

    The key Microsoft change was to switch the clients such that all traffic is now run through central Microsoft Servers. Obviously, this is so that Microsoft can, if required, record your Skype conversations [you're not a terrorist, are you?] and pass them along to authorities who ask for them.

    What Microsoft have done here is even smarter than that. They still want to better understand your conversations - likely, this time around, for advertising and marketing purposes - but by federating some of this activity to Cortana, they open the door for pushing some of the compute resources required down to your PC. As our machines become more powerful, the need for tools like Siri and Cortana to push audio clips to a cloud service for interpretation will be gradually reduced [OK, unlikely that we'll ever need to completely abandon cloud support]. But the key thing here is that Microsoft - who get to benefit from understanding what you're talking about by selling advertisements to third parties with greater claims of relevance - are opening up the door to using your hardware and electricity to do their hard work for them.

    I wonder if they got the idea from this crypto-currency miners that were using browser-injected malware to perform the mining for them?

    1. Re:Very Clever by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Anyone who was paying attention at the time would have noticed that shortly after Microsoft acquired Skype, they made a fundamental change to the way the application operates.

      Anyone who was paying attention at the time would have noticed that shortly after the USDoJ found that under the leadership of Bill Gates, Microsoft was found guilty of abusing its monopoly position in basically every way possible, Gates stepped down from being in control of Microsoft and then founded the Gates Foundation, a massive tax dodge which leaves him in control of all of his money and on a mission of spreading western IP law to the rest of the world.

      I have assumed that everything about Microsoft has been pure evil since that point. And lo, as Gates has been pushing Big Pharma's will around the globe, Microsoft has been spreading spyware. Supporting Big Pharma is also directly benefiting himself, since he has long had massive personal investments in Big Pharma; the foundation also profits from the same.

      Secret conspiracies to harm the public are the norm, not the exception.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Very Clever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately, the original Skype model tended to result in very variable connected quality, at least from personal experience.

    3. Re:Very Clever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As our machines become more powerful, the need for tools like Siri and Cortana to push audio clips to a cloud service for interpretation will be gradually reduced

      My understanding is that the machine learning techniques used for tools like Siri require a LOT of data for training. That is the real reason the cloud is needed. That data is all on an Apple server somewhere, and it is terribly unreasonable (if not completely impossible) to download the data required to have decent speech-to-text. I don't think it will ever be reasonable to put that all on the phone, unless there is some technology breakthrough that makes the classifier used tiny, but I don't see that either. Technology like Siri that uses machine learning over a gigantic data set is cloud based. Period.

    4. Re:Very Clever by ytene · · Score: 1

      That is fair - but bear in mind the improvements that we've seen regarding typical internet bandwidth since the first release of Skype. In fact, I would go so far as to say that it was really only the upgrade of the internet backbone to gigabit speed, with home connections measurable in megabit speeds, which allowed Microsoft to re-route the traffic via their servers.

      Had they tried to do the same thing at the original net speeds, it likely would not have worked at all...

    5. Re:Very Clever by PPH · · Score: 2

      It is not inconceivable that Microsoft can negotiate higher bandwidth, higher QoS and lower latency connections from broadband providers than you can. For money.

      Those are nice little IP packets you've got there buddy. Shame if something were to happen to them. Heh, heh.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    6. Re:Very Clever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite a lot of people had issues of being hacked/DDoS-ed because Skype could be used to disclose their IP addresses, as long as their Skype contact info was known.

      The cases that I know about were mainly with Twitch streamers where trolls would use Skype to get the IP address, and then use LOIC or similar tools to DDos their streams, and with that cut off their source of income.

  13. Duh.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So let me get this straight, the machine has to parse your conversations in order to be able to suggest choices on the web or calendar events? What a surprise, OH THE HORROR!!

    1. Re: Duh.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not "the machine", you idiot paid shill. Machines YOU DON'T OWN are listening to your conversations, probably recording them, and will never use any of that in your best interests.

      Mass surveillance is real. Industrial espionage is real. Law enforcement disdain for the Constitution is real. Quit trying to pretend otherwise.

    2. Re: Duh.. by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      If you run closed source software you don't own your machine either.

    3. Re: Duh.. by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      Not "the machine", you idiot paid shill.

      How does one get one of these paid shill jobs? It sounds ideal.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  14. A Star Is Born by hyades1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "...I am not saying Microsoft has malicious intent by adding Cortana to Skype; the company could have good intentions."

    I realize it was the person posting TFA who said this, not Microsoft itself. Nevertheless, this magnificent remark deserves to to take its place as another star in the firmament of "what could possibly go wrong" comments.

    I propose that it be placed just below "Your cheque's in the mail" and "I'll just put the tip in", and immediately above "I won't let go in your mouth" and "We're from the government; we're here to help".

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  15. They've been doing it for years before Cortana by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft has already been reading your Skype messages for years. It was pretty much the first thing they did when they bought Skype.

    Before the buy-out, Skype made a direct connection between the two parties. One of the first things MS did was to route all connections through their own servers. I remember reading an article (sorry, I couldn't dig it out) explaining how someone had created a web page on their server with a randomly generated address, immediately pasted the link in their Skype conversation, and seconds later the link was visited by an IP address owned by MS.

  16. Rube Goldberg? by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 1

    Pretty sure Skype is reading your messages and M$ is passing that off to Cortana for targeted ads. I wouldn't put it past them entirely, but having Cortana sift through an app's data they already have more readily available sources for would be Rube Goldberg levels of stupid.

  17. Follow the Leader by mentil · · Score: 2

    As much as I love to jump aboard the Microsoft hate-train, it should be noted that iOS does the exact same thing with reading your texts and e.g. suggesting adding upcoming plans to your calendar, even if Siri is turned off. If Siri is turned on, it does stuff like that but moreso. The real question is, does any of this 'message parsing' end up on Microsoft servers? If it's all local, and the results aren't sent to MS, then who cares?

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Follow the Leader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm with you, people who think Microsoft is alone in doing this is clueless. Google, Apple, anyone who is able to suggest or assist is obviously getting some sort of information to make those features happen. Come on people, think about the app doesn't read minds. It has to have a source in order to make the suggestions.

    2. Re:Follow the Leader by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I'm with you, people who think Microsoft is alone in doing this is clueless.

      I don't think that anyone thinks Microsoft is alone in doing this sort of thing.

    3. Re:Follow the Leader by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Two wrongs don't make a right. I hate Apple too.

    4. Re: Follow the Leader by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By all means, jump aboard the ms hate train. The fact that Apple do the same is no reason to nor hate ms. You can hate both, because neither is needed.

  18. W10, SQLServer, Skype, Office, Vis. Studio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ALL spy on you. When installing SQL server the other day, read the privacy statement which actually said you can not turn off some of the spying. It turns out to be true with Office as well.

    Microsoft is scary as hell and should be considered absolute spyware as it is. Regardless of data collection purposes, building in over reaching collection and NOT giving users a choice about it is not only user-hostile, but it's hateful.

    I work for a 11K employee company and we are actually in talks to NOT use microsoft going forward. Our CIO actually has come up with a fairly workable plan (Although I believe it will be a little more work).

  19. What's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How is is this any worse than using a service like Skype or Hangouts that store chat log history server side? Cortana is just some extra logic applied to that record

  20. Compuers are not secure by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    Why are you discussing "secret" stuff on a non-secret network? The Internet is not a secure network and your computer is not secure either. Stupid.

    1. Re:Compuers are not secure by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Why do you assume that this is only a concern if you're discussing "secret" stuff?

    2. Re:Compuers are not secure by Jerry · · Score: 1

      Because it is possible to communicate using end-to-end encryption that doesn't depend on a 3rd party, or their server, and uses a 2048 byte or larger key.

      Case in point: Using FreeNet's "Friends" connection, a P2P open source application that allows you to create encrypted connections between you and only your friends.

      --

      Running with Linux for over 20 years!

    3. Re:Compuers are not secure by thegreatbob · · Score: 2

      Personally, I define "secret" as anything I'm not intending to broadcast to the general public.

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
  21. Up front by Bert64 · · Score: 1

    Your skype conversations go through servers controlled by microsoft, they have always had the capability to read them and the potential for abuse has always existed.
    The only thing that's changed now is that they're providing a potentially useful service with the data that you were already giving them.

    --
    http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    1. Re:Up front by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      100% correct. Most of your data is going through someone else's servers if you are using the Internet. How do people think things work? Magical fairy dust?

    2. Re:Up front by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Most of your data is going through someone else's servers if you are using the Internet.

      Yes, but that doesn't mean that your data must be exposed to them.

  22. Ha ha ha ha by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "I am not saying Microsoft has malicious intent by adding Cortana to Skype; the company could have good intentions."

    I'll say it: Microsoft has malicious intent by adding Cortana to Skype.

    The admission that they're parsing and mining your "private" conversations means they're no longer "private".

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:Ha ha ha ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The admission that they're parsing and mining your "private" conversations means they're no longer "private".

      Well, we've seen that most people don't really care about privacy in recent decades, so it's probably something that business would worry about more. However, didn't they recently announce that Skype for Business was being replaced with Teams? Is this some sort of way to try and push business users away from consumer-Skype into Microsoft's new idea of a business tool?

      "If you're doing something commercially sensitive do it in Teams, that way we won't peek at it (quite so much....)".

    2. Re:Ha ha ha ha by Jerry · · Score: 1

      Exactly.
      DuckDuckGo "Legal Intercept".
      A lot of Internet users do not remember "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish", which helped Gates become a billionaire. Now, Google's owners are doing the same business plan: pretending to show interest in a startup's technology and talking about partnering with them, until they acquire the startup's secrets, then they dump them. I can recall only one company, a French company, that won 2 Million suing Microsoft for breach of promise. Most victims run out of money for lawyers before their case ever gets to court.

      --

      Running with Linux for over 20 years!

    3. Re:Ha ha ha ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll say it: Microsoft has malicious intent by adding Cortana to Skype.

      Indeed. But there's a humorous irony here, too. The "Skype Team" suggest you use Cortana to provide conversation ideas, shopping tips, or even to have the conversation for you. So they've developed a tool, for people who want to avoid any kind of thinking or paying attention, and the tool then spies on itself having a conversation...perhaps with another Skype instance on the other end.

      So Microsoft can report to the NSA that Skype 1 suggested going to Starbucks for a discount latte, which Skype 2 enthusiastically agreed to, suggesting that they stop for Chinese food, flowers and sushi on the way.

    4. Re:Ha ha ha ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You act as though this is a new thing. Facebook has been doing this for quite some time, and nobody seems to care. Why the hate for Microsoft?

    5. Re:Ha ha ha ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it even possible for a for-profit business to have good intentions? I don't think so. At best, anything that could be considered beneficial to the rest of the world is merely a happy coincidence to getting rich. I'm more or less libertarian, but even I will readily concede that business is 100% self-serving. Of course, I also think government is 100% self-serving.

    6. Re:Ha ha ha ha by laupark · · Score: 1

      Good thing we all use groupme instead of skype, they are owned by M.......oh, nevermind. Well, I'll just use google hangouts then. surely my data is safe.

    7. Re:Ha ha ha ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      News flash!
      If you use the internet for anything it is not private.
      If you use your phone for anything it is not private.
      Unless you talk face to face in a secure room it is not private.
      At the far end: Two people can keep a secret, if one of them is dead.

    8. Re:Ha ha ha ha by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sure they are. they're totally private between you, your skype contact, and now, microsoft....

      and their service provider or advertising 'partners'......

      and some unknown russian hackers...

      and their chinese buddies...

      and the u.s. federal government....

      and one or more of dozens of other governments depending on the locations of any of the others above......

      and.....

  23. "private Skype conversation" oxymoron by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you think your data and personal information is private... on Microsoft services and products?

  24. And google isn't reading all of your... by laupark · · Score: 2

    so google isn't processing all of your browsing history in chrome, gmail conversations and google voice text messages for use with targeted marketing and god knows what else? don't you have to have cortana and skype installed for this to matter? I guess that pretty much rules out skype on android or iphone being an issue, so is this just a Win 10 "problem"? Wake me when we are pissed at Amazon, Facebook, and Google for the probe they have installed in all of us.

    1. Re:And google isn't reading all of your... by JohnFen · · Score: 2

      so google isn't processing all of your browsing history in chrome, gmail conversations and google voice text messages

      Of course they are. Why is that relevant to Cortana and Skype?

    2. Re:And google isn't reading all of your... by Jerry · · Score: 1

      They are doing more than that. Over time they will collect EVERY login name and password for every Internet account you have created, AND they'll acquire your wifi admin name and password as well.

      --

      Running with Linux for over 20 years!

    3. Re:And google isn't reading all of your... by laupark · · Score: 1

      so google isn't processing all of your browsing history in chrome, gmail conversations and google voice text messages

      Of course they are. Why is that relevant to Cortana and Skype?

      Because this article is about the theft of your car's hood ornament. Google FB and amazon are going through your sock drawer and have a moving van backed up to your garage door. Not that MS wouldn't do the same, but there is a much bigger privacy issue from bigger players going on. This is an interesting article, but small potatoes. The creepiness of microsoft's linked-in intrusuions is much scarier if we want to have a MS alarmist article. I'd like to see it explained for the layman how MS are able to (technically and legally) harvest outlook contacts from a corporate exchange server or the most random people you have contacted on craigslist through your gmail account simply by logging into their website and suggesting you may know them. That may open some eyes.

    4. Re:And google isn't reading all of your... by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      /. runs plenty of articles about the issues around Google, etc. I think there's room to cover this too.

    5. Re:And google isn't reading all of your... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They actually stopped reading your emails. And Microsoft collects way more data than Google. Also to make matters worse they disclose bugs to the NSA before fixing them so that they can make backdoors. Yet another reason not to use Windows, especially 10.

  25. Big Pharma? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 2

    Gates is putting billions into eradicating Malaria and getting clean drinking water to people. How is that "pushing Big Pharma"?

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re: Big Pharma? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need to do some research on why billionaires actually set up charitable foundations. A portion of the income goes to the charity ( camouflage), the rest is under the control of the billionaire and his heirs forever, tax free.

    2. Re: Big Pharma? by thegreatbob · · Score: 1

      I have oddly little problem with this. At least with Gates, the foundation seems to be relatively open about their intentions and accomplishments. What has this AC done for the betterment of mankind lately?

      --
      There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
    3. Re: Big Pharma? by shilly · · Score: 1

      I know you're into your conspiracy theories and all, and so are completely dismissive of anything anyone actually ever says, but you do know that unlike virtually every other billionaire in the world, Bill Gates has very publicly said he will be leaving the vast bulk of his fortune to his foundation, rather than his children? Obviously, they're never going to starve -- they'll get millions -- but he's leaving several thousand times as much to the foundation. Now, I'm sure in your head that's all just more evidence of the conspiracy somehow and that really his kids will get the money, but Ockham's Fucking Razor applies! He didn't have to do that -- he could have just left the money directly to his kids if he wanted to, and no-one would have blinked.

    4. Re: Big Pharma? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who do you think will run the foundation? His fucking children.

      Leaving money to loved ones: taxed.

      Leaving money to a non profit: not taxed.

      It's that simple.

    5. Re: Big Pharma? by shilly · · Score: 1

      God, you're dumb. The money in the foundation can't be spent on yachts, or football clubs, or megamansions, or blow. So it's really not at all the same as the kids directly inheriting daddy's squillions? And if you think a billionaire needs to set up a charitable foundation to minimise their tax bills, you're even dumber than I thought possible.

    6. Re: Big Pharma? by beastofburdon · · Score: 0

      You have a fundamental misunderstanding of how "charitable" organizations work in the US.

    7. Re: Big Pharma? by shilly · · Score: 1

      I really don't. But the Gates Foundation is not set up like Joel Osteen's.

  26. Time to fall-back to sneakernet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Re:Time to fall-back to sneakernet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > sneakernet

      Too bad, the availability of physical 'read-only' USB sticks is so limited. Perhaps I'm old, but I loved the plastic write protection slider on 1.44" diskettes!

  27. Trivial to test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So to test this, lets file a lawsuit, allege that our opponent uses Skype, and issue a subpoena to Microsoft for any Skype conversations from our opponent's CEO that include both the phrases "Contoso" and "destroy evidence"

  28. All of them do this by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

    Siri is also upfront in some of the settings that if enabled will involve SMS uploaded to the cloud for dictation support and so on. For the virtual assistants they all treat the phone as a thin client.

    1. Re:All of them do this by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      For the virtual assistants they all treat the phone as a thin client.

      Yep, which is why I won't be getting on board this "virtual assistant" train. The whole thing seems reckless and dangerous to me.

  29. How to stop this (more text) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

     

  30. Re:How is this any different than Linux? by Jerry · · Score: 1

    Don't think so. What you are seeing is browser activity caused by tracking cookies sending reports back home. IF YOU allow cookies the problem is your fault, not Ubuntu's. Use an ad blocker or script blocker.

    There is no process (or service) which is tasked with watching your keyboard except the traditional keyboard interrupt which is required in order that YOU can communicate with Ubuntu. All OS's have this capability and it is not a bug or spyware.

    --

    Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  31. You(and I) probably let them in "willingly" by squash_me_quickly · · Score: 1

    Somewhere in the "terms and conditions" or "end user agreement ", which none of us read but could/should, they probably told us that they were going to use our data(typed or spoken) to improve their products/profit.

    Whether it's an OS, browser, communication, chat, VOIP, or on-line game, every program you use or install has a line in the mass of waffle a cryptically written paragraphs which you agree to which states that anything you do with their product is fair game.

    1. Re:You(and I) probably let them in "willingly" by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Whether it's an OS, browser, communication, chat, VOIP, or on-line game, every program you use or install has a line in the mass of waffle a cryptically written paragraphs which you agree to which states that anything you do with their product is fair game.

      This is not universally true, but how true it is depends on the platform. Windows? It's probably true. Linux? It's probably not true.

  32. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People are not special. Your privacy is still yours. Microsoft and Cortana don't give a crap about your wacking off, cheating on your spouse, or whatever it is you think matters.

    1. Re:Who cares? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      People are not special. Your privacy is still yours.

      Microsoft, Google, ad networks, etc., all provide ample evidence that you're incorrect. If our personal minutia was really of no interest, then these companies wouldn't be spending hundreds of millions of dollars creating systems to collect, store, and datamine it.

  33. Re:Fucking FUD by Jerry · · Score: 1

    You must be new to computers and operating systems.

    Consult:
    http://www.billparish.com/msft...
    to bring yourself up to date.

    --

    Running with Linux for over 20 years!

  34. Privacy is dead by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Users don't care and by now many developers are young enough to have grown up with pervasive monitoring, so they don't have a bad conscience about it either. Don't use what the masses use, unless you want to be tracked, analyzed and taken advantage of. One, makers of the One Plus phone, send a log of just about everything you do with their phone to their servers. Yes, their phone, not yours. You only get to use it. Why else would it report to them, not to you? Firefox comes with "telemetry" and Mozilla has announced that it will start sending URLs that you visit to a "recommendation" service. Google reads your emails. Skype reads your messages. Computers and phones in particular are bugging devices nowadays. Privacy is dead, whether you like it or not.

  35. No sh*t. And? by aussersterne · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I really don't get the crowd who's always on about security/privacy here. Sure, you don't want the inconvenience of stolen data. But as Equifax (latest in a long line) demonstrates, it's *going* to happen, and it doesn't require Skype or Google to be compromised. And as it happens more and more, the culture becomes more and more forgiving of individuals who may have been compromised. It's not a life-ending problem.

    Meanwhile, the life efficiency benefits from having good data vacuuming and processing are incredible. They make you into Person+ in terms of getting things done and done quickly, and over time they accumulate.

    On some story here the other day there were a bunch of people pushing a Debian phone whose big calling card was apparently that—thanks to being so completely locked down against data collection—that it's basically nothing more than a 1:1 communicator—you and whatever other person you're connected to. The big data services get nothing. The big selling point.

    I just wouldn't be interested. I actively try to multiply the amount of data I'm providing to Google and others with the way I create and configure logins and use software, because it pays multiples and dividends in productivity and convenience. If someone came up with a phone that got an order of magnitude *more* of my behavioral, locational, and conversational data crunched by big services in order to leverage it all for customization/context/workflows, *that* is something I'd be interested in. Take my data. Make my life faster/better/more convenient.

    I don't need someone to make secret the fact that I like show X and buy product Y and often drive to place Z. I need someone to spread the word to as many services as possible and help them to make use of this data to make my life better.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    1. Re:No sh*t. And? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      Sure, you don't want the inconvenience of stolen data.

      This isn't about "stolen data", it's about Big Data.

      But as Equifax (latest in a long line) demonstrates, it's *going* to happen, and it doesn't require Skype or Google to be compromised.

      Absolutely true, but so what? Just because thieves are a thing doesn't mean that it's OK to let companies spy.

      Meanwhile, the life efficiency benefits from having good data vacuuming and processing are incredible.

      That's arguable, but not very important. If you choose to take part in Big Data, more power to you. That's your choice. The real issue is that it's largely forced on people whether they want it or not.

    2. Re:No sh*t. And? by neurovish · · Score: 1

      If someone came up with a phone that got an order of magnitude *more* of my behavioral, locational, and conversational data crunched by big services in order to leverage it all for customization/context/workflows, *that* is something I'd be interested in. Take my data. Make my life faster/better/more convenient.

      I don't need someone to make secret the fact that I like show X and buy product Y and often drive to place Z. I need someone to spread the word to as many services as possible and help them to make use of this data to make my life better.

      Is this sarcastic? How does all this crap make you life faster/better/more convenient? If anything, I think it has the opposite effect. We're inundated with data now to the point where the only way to truly focus on anything is to turn off the data feed. When you're "connected" you're multitasking all the time slowly accruing stress, and doing whatever you're trying to do not as well as you would if it was your singular focus.

      If not sarcastic, then I'm genuinely interested in specific examples of how these help you out. The only use I've seen for any of these sorts of things is wholly marketing and revenue driven, i.e. "customer is within 1/2 mile of your restaurant, so send them a text with a 2-for-1 happy hour drink special in the hopes they stop what they're doing and go to your restaurant instead". The only application of these services where I found a benefit is with a group of friends at a large music festival where we could look at a map and see where the rest of the group was...except the cell towers were so saturated that it really didn't end up working that well.

    3. Re:No sh*t. And? by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      I just wouldn't be interested. I actively try to multiply the amount of data I'm providing to Google and others with the way I create and configure logins and use software, because it pays multiples and dividends in productivity and convenience.

      So basically what you're saying it: nothing to hide, nothing to fear?

      I'll just remind people that the UK home secretary recently talked about locking people up for 15 years for listening to "far right propaganda". Who gets to define what that is? The government.

    4. Re:No sh*t. And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also remember that the 5h!t that Snowden revealed still exists. It didn't just go away, news and media just stopped covering it because it wasn't "relevant."

    5. Re: No sh*t. And? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really don't get the crowd who's always on about security/privacy here.

      Me neither.

      There aren't many of those.

      However, for anyone who cares about privacy only some of the time, it still holds true that they have to take care all of the time.

      If this excludes you, good for you. I honestly doubt that you have nothing that you wouldn't want to be public.

      Anyway, I'll just quote Snowden for you :
      Saying you don't care about privacy because you have nothing to hide, it's like saying you don't care about freedom of speech because you have nothing to say.

      It's perhaps not about you personally, but about those few who would make a difference.
      Martin Luther King wouldn't have succeeded in today's world.

  36. See what’s new in Firefox! by pigsycyberbully · · Score: 0

    I had to try Firefox on Linux for a website, that was not compatible with the Opera web browser. Firefox on Linux does not clear the cookies it pretends to do so but it does not. I set it to custom settings for history and except third-party cookies from visited websites and clear them when "I close Firefox." that was the only option available. When opening to check its full of cookies. Google who I do not use ended up tracking me across the web with suggestions what I should purchase and what I have purchased using Firefox.

    I remove Firefox and tried the Windows version. The Windows version comes with a Yahoo pup potentially unwanted program pop-up ads for Yahoo and Yahoo search very annoying Malwarebytes called it Yahoo Browser hijacker.

    56.0 Firefox Release September 28, 2017.

  37. Linux Skype Client by snookiex · · Score: 1

    One of the perks of using the Linux client is that we don't even have decent support for plain chats, so we won't be seeing Cortana in a while.

    --
    Open Source Network Inventory for the masses! Kuwaiba
  38. Why do they need to use Cortana to do so? by Cloud+K · · Score: 1

    Don't Microsoft own the Skype servers already?

  39. This is dumb. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Assistant program that presents contextual information from chats has to read chats to do its job. Film at 11.

  40. Re:How is this any different than Linux? by JohnFen · · Score: 2

    Ubuntu constantly monitors your typing to sell you stuff from Amazon. How is that any different?

    First, Ubuntu is not the sum total of all Linuxes -- just because one distro does something doesn't mean "Linux" does it.

    Second, you can totally disable this.

    Are there ANY OSes out there that don't spy on you? I don't think so...

    Yes, there are quite a few, including the vast majority of Linux distros.

  41. Private Skype Conversations? by EvilSS · · Score: 1

    I'm sorry but was anyone ever assuming anything on Skype (or any other hosted IM platform, SMS platform, hosted email platform, etc) was really "private" to begin with?

    --
    I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
  42. Re:How is this any different than Linux? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    I think he was referring to the Ubuntu Dash services.

  43. But you're only inundated by aussersterne · · Score: 1

    if you try to handle it yourself. That's what the emerging round of services is FOR—the systems can handle the data for you, and do it well. But only if they know you and know what you care about.

    Google Now + Google Inbox, for example. Between these two services, about 90-95% of what I care about is surfaced for me automatically from the noise. Places, times, patterns in my schedule, traffic reports and weather reports for places I'm likely to go just now, events that are happening that are "my kinds" of events, things that I might like to read based on my habits, etc.

    I don't have to log into Amazon track my packages or onto the community calendar to see what's going on or into Google Maps or Waze to check traffic or into email to see if my boss emailed me. All of those things are pushed to me in a contextual way all in one place, and it's pretty magically accurate nearly all of the time.

    Sure I still have a gmail box that gets hundreds of messages per day, but I never have to see 90% of them. Same for the other apps. Just figure out what I need right now based on what I'm doing and what I typically do, and then push it to me.

    The big data SaaS vision is actually evolving into a reality, and it's working better than I'd ever have thought it would if you'd asked me 20 years ago. I don't want to manage my own digital life; I want services to do it for me. It's like SPAM filtering x10, with an actual PDA (remember "personal digital assistant?" as a concept) on top of that that functions *like* an assistant. Proactive, reasonably smart, and very capable.

    The last thing I do, or want to do, is process data and multi-task. These are exactly the things that today's combination of services can increasingly take off your plate, if you'll let them.

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    1. Re:But you're only inundated by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      I understand the appeal of these sorts of services to you, I really do. I won't ever tell you not to use them.

      Personally, however, they are simply too expensive for my tastes. Too much loss of control, too much datamining, too much exposure to corporations who don't have my interests at heart.

      But, as with all things, what's too expensive for one person is priced right for another.

    2. Re:But you're only inundated by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely true, and it'll only be more profitable by routing around you entirely, so is doubleplusgood!

  44. Android Skype? by Khyber · · Score: 1

    "If you use Skype on mobile to discuss private matters with your friends or family, Cortana is constantly analyzing what you type."

    Last I checked, Cortana doesn't run on my old Droid phone or iPhone 4S.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  45. Simple soluition: Don't use Skype at all. by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    Or, better yet, don't use Microsoft Windows at all. If you want to feel more secure then make the tradeoffs to get away from Microsoft operating systems and other software. Note I'm being honest about it: You'll have to make some compromises to make it happen. But if you want control of the hardware you own and control over access to your data and communications, then that's what you're going to have to do, plain and simple. Use encrypted communications to prevent as much spying over the Internet as you can, too, or just never use the Internet for sensitive communications at all, either. You CAN take back your privacy and control of your life; the price you'll pay for that is loss of some convenience. Choose wisely.

  46. You're mischaracterizing the issue by Solandri · · Score: 1

    I really don't get the crowd who's always on about security/privacy here.

    I don't think many people here are always on about security/privacy. Just like not many people here think security/privacy never matters. People just want the option of holding certain discussions in private. Because sometimes security/privacy matters.

    Unfortunately, very few of these online communications tools give you a trustworthy "secure" or "encrypted" option - trustworthy enough to exclude the author/server from monitoring your communications. Back in the early days of the Internet, some friends and I set up a private IRC channel to discuss some personal matters. About a half hour in, an uninvited mod left a derogatory remark - he'd been abusing his mod privileges to evesdrop on our "private" channel. We never used IRC again. Once your credibility is shot like that, you're never getting it back.

    Likewise, if you surreptitiously install the ability to monitor conversations users think are private and confidential, your credibility is shot. While you're correct it's unreasonable and counterproductive to expect security/privacy all the time, it's completely reasonable to expect it some of the time at your own choosing. The presumption has been that this is true for Skype because it's encrypted. But submitter is correctly providing a PSA by pointing out that this is not the case, and that Microsoft has the ability to listen in. People need to use something other than Skype if they're going to discuss something they wish to keep private.

  47. Re:How is this any different than Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every major browser I've tried in the last decade + comes with a key logging function tied to it's search bar. Or do you think that the "Suggestions" for search terms are magically created on your local machine. Do the search engine companies keep the stuff you type but don't hit return on? I don't know, but I do know that they see it as you type to allow their servers to pass suggestions to you. I agree it is not a bug, it's a malware feature people have come to expect because for the vast majority, people are un-thinking morons.

  48. Illegal in Illinois by gillbates · · Score: 1

    In Illinois, and perhaps other states, it is illegal to record someone in a private residence without their consent.

    Just because you agreed to the TOS and EULA doesn't mean that I've agreed to it. So, if Cortana records me in your house, it is very possible that Microsoft has broken the law. I never agreed to the EULA or the TOS, nor did I give you or Microsoft permission to record me.

    --
    The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    1. Re:Illegal in Illinois by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      So, if Cortana records me in your house, it is very possible that Microsoft has broken the law.

      That's an interesting question. I'm guessing that the courts would rule that it wasn't Microsoft breaking the law, but whoever brought the device into your home without your permission.

      If I bring running dictation recorder into your house without your permission, the manufacturer of the recorder didn't break any eavesdropping law -- I did.

    2. Re:Illegal in Illinois by gillbates · · Score: 1

      More to the point, if I visit your house, and you record me without my consent, you've broken the law. However, if I visit your house, and Microsoft records me without my consent, Microsoft has broken the law. Microsoft may have obtained recording consent from you through the EULA/TOS, but they haven't obtained it from me.

      --
      The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
    3. Re:Illegal in Illinois by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      However, if I visit your house, and Microsoft records me without my consent, Microsoft has broken the law.

      Well, if such a case ever hits the courts, we'll see. It still seems to me that in that situation the courts could rule that it was me, and not Microsoft, that broke the law.

      I also think that courts may very well take the stance that if the device is sitting in plain sight, then the law wasn't broken by anybody.

      This is an interesting question, though, since these are new situations that I don't think there's much, if any, legal precedent about.

    4. Re:Illegal in Illinois by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, I can record whomever I want within my house. It's MY house so MY rules. If you don't like it, feel free to fuck off.

  49. no, they aren't because by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't use skype, Microsoft, or cortana

  50. Every time there's a story about a big data by aussersterne · · Score: 1

    service, half of the /. comments are bemoaning its existence and sarcastically remarking on more data "slurping," how everyone is more owned by company X, and so on. (1) They don't have to use the service, and (2) the service exists that way intentionally, i.e. it's part of the model and intrinsic to the service, which many people find valuable. I *love* that my tech "knows" me and can increasingly deliver me what I want and help me to find/remember stuff that is important, etc.

    As far as basic privacy goes, just a couple thoughts:

    (1) Privacy is not an on/off thing. Most of the time, people do not want something to be "fully private" (i.e. only for themselves). If they do, they don't put it into technology items in the first place—or at least, they shouldn't. Write it down on paper and keep it in a safe. This is not an appropriate use case for modern tech, at least not at the individual level. Most of the time, people want something to be "private from" a particular someone else (We're talking about Elsie getting fired, so we don't want it to get back to Elsie, etc.; We're talking about a product we're building, so we don't want our competitor to find out) I don't see cloud and big data services as doing much damage there unless you are clueless enough to post your conversation on Facebook or have bad passwords and team security. But in the end, it's not the system that's the risk here, it's bad choices by the individuals as they use the system.

    (2) If what someone is after really is "secure 1:1 communication, with no chance of the information reaching any third party," then again—it's 2017?! This need is orthogonal to the very functionality of comm tech. Your communication will have to pass through other parties and systems. Forget Microsoft, everyone knows about the NSA these days, it's an open "secret." If you really want "1:1 privacy" protected against all ears, you tell someone to meet you at a particular small coffee shop in a random neighborhood eight miles from either of your regular haunts, and you go in the back and have a couple coffees and talk in low voices.

    It just seems to me that in 2017 anyone who's upset about Google or Microsoft and the ways in which they collect and leverage communication data is fundamentally misconstruing the nature of the technology ecosystem right now. Even that secure Debian phone kickstarter project is still going to need to have a closed source baseband to comply with FCC rules and will ultimately pass packets over the same wireless networks that everyone else uses. Hello, NSA.

    You have to decide—are you doing something private, or are you just doing something average for which the only compelling interest that you have in your privacy is a kind of paranoia about third parties, future totalitarian states, etc.? If the former, you'd better get your a$$ off of networks that serve the public in any way. If the latter, you have a choice to make: if you use infrastructure that the general public uses, yet you think you can make it secure, you're dreaming, so you'll need to accept that at a very fundamental level, "public" and "private" are *orthogonal* quantities (it is a fool's game to try to do something private in public, no matter how fancy you get), so you'll either need to concede your publicness and live with it or actually take what you're doing *private*, which means—don't do it in public.

    The mobile networks are public. Google is public. Microsoft is public. Facebook is public. These are public places. Even if you put a bag over your head to try to disguise who you are, being in public is being in public and there's always the chance that someone will yank that bag off. That doesn't mean that being in public is a bad thing, or that we ought to culturally forbid or decry publicness.

    It means that you should take your private shit private, or at least understand that there is a spectrum of publicprivate correlated to risk that is not going away. Less public? Sure, more private. Also, less

    --
    STOP . AMERICA . NOW
    1. Re:Every time there's a story about a big data by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      (1) They don't have to use the service

      The real issue is that it's becoming increasingly difficult to avoid being spied on even if you aren't using those services.

      Privacy is not an on/off thing.

      However, most of these services are architected so that it is essentially an on/off thing.

      This need is orthogonal to the very functionality of comm tech. Your communication will have to pass through other parties and systems.

      The need for privacy does not preclude the use of comm tech at all. End to end encryption is a thing. Your communication is passed through foreign servers, yes, but that doesn't mean that it has to be readable to them.

      Forget Microsoft, everyone knows about the NSA these days, it's an open "secret."

      NSA, Microsoft, Google, etc., are all hostile actors in the information space. None have clean hands here.

      It just seems to me that in 2017 anyone who's upset about Google or Microsoft and the ways in which they collect and leverage communication data is fundamentally misconstruing the nature of the technology ecosystem right now.

      How so? It seems that they are understanding it perfectly -- they just object to it.

      You have to decide -- are you doing something private, or are you just doing something average

      I've already decided: literally everything that I do that I don't intend to be broadcast to the public is, by definition, private.

      there just seems to be a new presumption that we've solved it for some reason, and that the Big Bad Corporations are keeping us from enjoying our solution.

      Not at all. I doubt anybody has ever felt this was a solved problem. But Big Data is absolutely making it more difficult.

      you're vulnerable on account of everyone to whom you've delegated things. As it has always been.

      We agree on this!

      Which is why I need to be able to choose not to delegate to people and organizations that I don't trust. Such as Google, Microsoft, etc.

  51. I'll say it for them ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    PSA #2
    Your colleagues, friends, family, acquaintances, workmates, customers ...
    not all of them, but a considerable subset, think you're a cunt.
    Don't get me wrong - I'm not calling you a cunt.
    I'm just speaking for *some* of those you are personally close to, because they're too polite to say it themselves.

    Cause your "openness" exposes them without their consent.
    Whenever they meet you, they are surveilled, scanned, watched, listened to, linked, implicated.
    And maybe, just maybe, they don't WANT to be "wired in" like you.
    Maybe they don't like your mobile microphone being on, live, all the time.
    Maybe they don't like that you don't care to inform them that you carry a live mike, and a live camera with a live location beacon.

    I actively try to avoid people just like you, but not you specifically.
    I'm a little bit deviant, in my own way, which can be easily twisted to be a "pervert" and then ostracised.
    The arrogance of such people is infuriating, and they often refuse to acknowledge their responsibility for others' discomfort.

    Think on these things ...

  52. Re:How is this any different than Linux? by JohnFen · · Score: 1

    Or do you think that the "Suggestions" for search terms are magically created on your local machine.

    What suggestions?

    That's one of the first things I disable when installing a new browser.

  53. How to kill Cortana by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    For those still having problem to kill the Cortana background process, that is still running even if you disabled Cortana, because it respawns after a few seconds if you kill it, use task-manager and go to its home directory and rename it (to .bak or whatever)

    It won't allow that of course, because it's still running so you have to place the resulting "retry" window and the task-manager side by side, _then_ kill the process and immediately hit 'retry' to kill it dead,
    But you have to be fast.

  54. Some people are really stupid... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So, here's the deal, folks. In order for this magical "in-context" technology to work, Cortana is constantly reading your private conversations."

    Ooooh scary...

    Oh wait, no fuckin' shit, how else would "Cortana suggest useful information based on your chat"

  55. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    > Microsoft could use Cortana's analysis to spy on you for things like advertising or worse, and that stinks. Is it really worth the risk to have smart replies and suggested calendar entries? I don't know about you, but I'd rather not have my Skype conversations read by Microsoft.

    If you are using Skype, MS already has full access to your chat. Either you trust them or you don't. Having Cortana do suggestions based on keywords is not Microsoft reading your chat messages any more than using Skype in general.

  56. Swear, fucking Cortana, swear. by epine · · Score: 1

    It's ridiculous to even debate this.

    If a person (or a machine) overhears a private conversation, and then later—in a completely different context—betrays any understanding of such—name one animated, 3D-chessboard villain who can't sniff betrayal off a single, misplaced syllable—what you've got is a side channel that needs to sleep with the fishes.

    The only reason Cortana snoops is to later betray its gleanings though autocorrelated "suggestions".

    How strange or odd soe'er I bear myself,
    As I perchance hereafter shall think meet
    To put an antic disposition on,
    That you, at such times seeing me, never shall,
    With arms encumber'd thus, or this headshake,
    Or by pronouncing of some doubtful phrase,
    As 'Well, well, we know,' or 'We could, an if we would,'
    Or 'If we list to speak,' or 'There be, an if they might,'
    Or such ambiguous giving out, to note
    That you know aught of me: this not to do,
    So grace and mercy at your most need help you, Swear.

    Swear, fucking Cortana, swear.

  57. Conceit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The idea that you're interesting enough to merit anything but a short-cycle machine analysis is amusing. You know what it costs to elevate something to have a human look at it, and then to have an actual human look at it for any length of time? I will remind you that this is across all Cortana instances. Everyone with a Windows box and Cortana active. Much easier to set up trigger words... "let's schedule the three o'clock suicide bombing" might draw attention. Or schedule a soothing ice drop-in at 6.

    Not that I'd use it, but that's mostly because Cortana is terrible.

  58. Local Dragon Dictate. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Dragon Dictate only works locally on desktops, and for some markets only.

    There's currently no local Dragon Dictate for embed device.
    There's currently no local medical dragon dictate, it only exists as a cloud-only product.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  59. Don't conflate optimization for principles. by jbn-o · · Score: 2

    In the original, pre-Microsoft world, when you made a connection to a counter-party for a Skype Call, the client would first check a dynamic, central registry to see if the counter-party could be identified and if they were on line.

    Skype was fundamentally flawed well before this came into play: Skype was always non-free software. Skype was therefore always untrustworthy. How proprietors (Skype pre-Microsoft, Microsoft, or any proprietor who comes to own it later) describe Skype's code is therefore also untrustworthy. So as much as centralized call routing makes spying easier, a mere optimization on an inherently untrustworthy program. This change certainly didn't mean that Skype was in any way trustworthy before, and therefore this change was simply not the significant event you make it out to be.

    They still want to better understand your conversations - likely, this time around, for advertising and marketing purposes...

    People really ought to stop arguing as if they know why spies spy. We don't know the reasons why they made these choices; you're simply speaking beyond your knowledge. We can reasonably talk about who benefits from their choices and what power proprietary software grants a proprietor, but that's about it. Collected data is useful for multiple purposes not just advertising. Some of the reasons collected data is useful may not yet be known to the spies. What's most important aren't the reasons for spying. The strongest argument for respecting one's privacy is that humans need privacy to live a dignified life. If computer users are to take on software proprietors in a meaningful way they'll have to support software freedom for its own sake. Software freedom (respecting a user's right to run, inspect, share, and modify all published computer software) is a practical means to show other computer users that respect for one's dignity and a means to enjoy that dignity oneself.

  60. Cortana probably has full memory access anyway by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm pretty sure that Cortana can spy on anything you do, hell it may even have full memory access. I would literally rather use Gentoo than Windows 10 because of shit like this.

  61. wiretapping law violation? by feldmark · · Score: 1

    Seems like this could run afoul of state and/or federal wiretapping laws.