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North Korean Hackers Stole U.S.-South Korean Military Plans, Lawmaker Says (nytimes.com)

Posted by msmash on from the tussle-continues dept.

North Korean hackers stole a vast cache of data, including classified wartime contingency plans jointly drawn by the United States and South Korea, when they breached the computer network of the South Korean military last year, a South Korean lawmaker said Tuesday (alternative source). From a report: One of the plans included the South Korean military's plan to remove the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un, referred to as a "decapitation" plan, should war break out on the Korean Peninsula, the lawmaker, Rhee Cheol-hee, told reporters. Mr. Rhee, a member of the governing Democratic Party who serves on the defense committee of the National Assembly, said he only recently learned of the scale of the North Korean hacking attack, which was first discovered in September last year. It was not known whether any of the military's top secrets were leaked, although Mr. Rhee said that nearly 300 lower-classification confidential documents were stolen. The military has not yet identified nearly 80 percent of the 235 gigabytes of leaked data, he said.

61 of 110 comments (clear)

  1. South Korea really should stop by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

    using IE 6 for everything...

  2. Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by gweihir · · Score: 1

    Then I see a far larger problem here. Seems to me they are _not_ prepared.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by sittingnut · · Score: 4, Insightful

      actually it is impossible for south to fight north without capital seoul, which is well within north's artillery range, getting destroyed and million getting killed within minutes. north has a huge well entrenched artillery advantage just because of that.

      so whenever you hear warmongering talk from usa, check the south korea media to see how people in seoul are responding to same news, if they are not worried, all the warmonger talk is just talk, not serious. probably aimed at american audience for some political reason.
      everyone knows this, but american media pretends as if all the warmongering talk is real.

    2. Re: Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by tgetzoya · · Score: 1

      ....which one?

    3. Re: Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by losfromla · · Score: 1

      The fat one with daddy issues.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    4. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Or maybe they are well prepared, and want North Korea to know it. After all, there's not much deterrent value to being secretly able to win a war.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    5. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by WrongMonkey · · Score: 2

      These plans were stolen over a year ago. Considering events since then, does North Korea seem deterred?

    6. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Or alternatively, they were stolen because of gross incompetence. I know which scenario is much more likely...

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    7. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      One can assume that the Chinese military also talks about how it might send a million men south. Again.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    8. Re: Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Right. So, which one?

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    9. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Yes, I started checking KT (Korean Times, oriented to (or by?) the govt), and another one more oriented to biz, I forget the name. I am reassuring my family that WWIII is not upon us, so I wanted to back up my assurances with information from ground zero^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H the local indigenous personnel.

      I spent a bit of time in Korea in another life and remember things that Big Kimmy would say (and do), and Grandpappy Kimmy would say (and do). Threatening to shoot down a bomber is relatively mild. And, since there was no armistice, we technically *are* at war. So, most of what I read in the English language Korean news is that "this is lil' Kimmy acting out as he always does". But always with the caveat, "but we don't know what Trump will do". So, let's say that their interest has been "piqued" with the latest round of insults and threats.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    10. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      The only way to know for sure what the Chinese intend is to read their party magazines which have been floating the idea for over a year that a unified Korea under the South's leadership isn't a huge problem as they'll be able to bully the south into doing what they want. See if there was no NK there would be no reason to have the US troops and assets there and China would be able to make that point to SK very well given how entwined their economies are at this point. In fact given the hostility to US troops by the Korean public they'd likely be pulled out within 2 years of such an event, Just like the Philippines got rid of us and most of the Japanese want us out as well.

      The only real wildcard at this point is Russia who appears to be aiding NK just to poke the west in the eye even though they know NK is a much a threat to Russia as it is to everyone else.

    11. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The entire US war industrial complex knows all this crap is a scam to generate profits, hence they have not the slightest qualm about selling any information that anyone wants to buy, makes no real difference except to their offshore bank account balance. Easiest way to transfer the information out in bulk, allow a hack to occur, done and finished. They pay for that hack ie millions of dollars and suck as much information as they can out of it, the more they get, the more they will pay for the next hack. The US government is for sale at every level, federal to local government, that should be pretty fucking obvious by now.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    12. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by Megol · · Score: 1

      As everything in NK data is hard to get by however they had dedicated much effort in developing their artillery. They use rocked augmented (assisted?) projectiles at least for the 170mm guns and IIRC use base-bleed designs for other sizes.

      At least the 170mm guns can reach Seoul but not with any kind of precision. I'd think NK would concentrate fire on military objectives in general because while destroying Seoul may have strategic significance tactical flexibility may be what decides if the state will survive.

      Not a military freak/geek so YMMV.

    13. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by Megol · · Score: 1

      NK know well that there are several current decapitation plans - because that's obvious unless the SK military/politicians were absolute incompetent!

      The US probably have plans how to invade Switzerland if it would ever come to that, just as they had plans to nuke Finland.

    14. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by Megol · · Score: 1

      How could we tell? Blustering and aggressive bullshitting is the standard PR from NK. It's like trying to determine if someone is friendly when threatening to only rape you after you're dead... ;)

    15. Re: Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Probably all North Korea can do is level Seoul. All the signs are that their military would fare extremely poorly against a US/South Korean force. E.g. North Korea doesn't have enough fuel to fight a modern war. It's aircraft are hopelessly out of date.

      I think Seoul would be levelled, SK and maybe US forces would land north of the DMZ and try to capture Pyongyang and destroy NK artillery aimed at SK. The North Korean regime would collapse.

      In terms of North Korea military some units would fight and be destroyed by SK/US air power. And some would probably decide to desert. Unfortunately not enough of them would desert to save Seoul from damage.

      Once the regime collapsed there'd be evidence of spectacular atrocities in camps, and of course Seoul would be badly damaged or destroyed. Kim would be captured and executed by the vengeful South Koreans. Or he'd kill himself. Or flee to China. Most of the NK elite would end up facing war crimes charges for murdering North Koreans in camps or bombing South Korea.

      Of course it would all get worse in China intervened to stop the regime collapsing or tried to set up a pro Chinese puppet regime to replace the Kim dynasty.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    16. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by Immerman · · Score: 1

      >NK is a much a threat to Russia as it is to everyone else.

      How do you figure? Contrary to the media portrayal, Kim's not stupid or crazy, for all his posturing to keep himself in power (internal politics requires him to publicly play the strong man to keep the populace in line and maintain his position and life). And Russia and China are the closest things he has to allies.

      NK is a major conventional threat to SK, particularly Seoul. Might not win a war, even without outside intervention, but their artillery could do enough damage quickly enough to give SK good reason to want to avoid conflict. Beyond that, it could attack China if it wanted to trade a little damage for a thorough curb-stomping. It doesn't have the navy to reach anywhere else, so that's pretty much the limit of it's threat beyond maybe some missile-bombardment of Japan.

      Nuclear weapons on long-range missiles give it a bit of a further reach, enough to do serous damage to SK or Japan (or China, or the Russian wilderness if they wanted to piss off their only hope of surviving such a play), but it's still dubious that they have the ability to reach any further, even assuming the US has no missile defenses within the Pacific (which would seem a pretty stupid assumption given our long-standing conflict with Russia)

      Basically, even with nuclear weapons, they're not actually much of a threat. At worst they might manage to take out a major city or two. And if they actually tried to do so rather than firing sabre-rattling blanks, they would almost certainly be obliterated in return. The whole point of nukes for a small country is to discourage the major powers from picking a fight, as we've all shown ourselves to be quite happy to do when the mood suits us.

      Really, there's only one nuclear-backed madman on the world stage to worry about, and he's right here in the good old US of A.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    17. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      "Really, there's only one nuclear-backed madman on the world stage to worry about, and he's right here in the good old US of A."

      Thankfully, our armed forces aren't triggered by tweets.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    18. Re:Well, if the plans are _this_ badly protected by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Right. He'd have to pick up the phone to do that - he is still the supreme military authority. And we can hope the soldier on the other end wouldn't obey his orders. The soldier with his hand on the trigger has averted global nuclear war a few times already by refusing to obey orders.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  3. I have a super secret copy of the plans by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    It's one page that reads "Drop lots and lots of bombs".

    Seriously. It's North Bloody Korea. They can barely keep their army fed let alone fight a war with our nation. NK is a hostage situation. As soon as we move they start slinging rockets at South Korea because their leadership knows every last one of them is going to hang.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by mdm-adph · · Score: 1

      That was the old plan, circa 1950. The new is just one page that says "Keep stalling them until they fall apart, even if it takes 500 years"

      --
      It is by my will alone my thoughts acquire motion; it is by the juice of the coffee bean that the thoughts acquire speed
    2. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by rainer_d · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sure, they'll go down. They know this.

      But they'll also make sure to take as many Yanks and South Koreans with them as possible. And iif you consider they had 70 years to dig themselves in, you'll realize that the prize will be very, very high.

      They have 15k artillery canons within a couple of dozens of km from Seoul. And they're not sitting in an open field. They're sitting in armored tunnels drilled into a granite mountain.

      The only way to take those down is to throw a couple of really big nukes. And then you also take out Seoul at the same time.

      --
      Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
    3. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Even with the middle east, DPRK would be a cake walk for the USA, the problem isn't resources, the problem is how long it would take to deliver them... South Korea would suffer significant civilian causalities for the hour or so the North could keep up the shelling with the various chemical weapons they have in the field and I'm sure there would be a number of bloody infiltration attacks for a couple of days to contend with.

      Any shooting war would be decidedly short, as short as the USA could make it and we have the resources to take care of DPRK close enough to make that time window into hours not days.

      We could win the war with the resources already in the region. Of course, winning the peace would be a bit more of a challenge, but not as much of a challenge as Iraq was. There will be a short lived insurgency from some military holdouts, but given the north isn't currently at odds internally like Iraq was, it won't be sectarian violence.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    4. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by losfromla · · Score: 1

      I am visualizing some video game where missiles and artillery spawn from an impossibly small area in endless continuous barrages. It sounds impressive even if it is their swan dive into oblivion.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    5. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by rahvin112 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Artillery in tunnels like that is actually pretty easy to destroy with a missile, guided bomb or a fuel air bomb that can suck the air out of the tunnel. Reinforced tunnels like that haven't been secure for 30+ years when they developed the first bombs to take them out. And by they I mean everyone, pretty much every major military has the weapons to take out hardened bunkers like that, even Israel bought them after the last war with Hezbollah.

    6. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by rahvin112 · · Score: 2

      Jesus if you are gonna just make numbers up why post? NK has no where near 5 Million troops. They barely have a 1:1 match against the south's 600+K troops when you factor in capability. When you factor in starvation, lack of training and willingness to surrender you'll like see NK forces collapse as soon as the SK begins pushing back.

      Just remember, they called Saddam's 1+million soldier invincible too. The US millitary bought 50,000 body bags for the first gulf war and friendly fire killed more US troops than Iraqis did. The largest tank battle since WWII resulted in no US casualties caused by enemy fire.

      A war on the Korean peninsula will likely go down the same way, except rather than eating dog food like the Iraqi soliders the NK soldiers will wish they had the dog food and were as well fed as the Iraqis.

    7. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      How hard do you really think it is to cut off the north from border access effectively, and neutralize that large army? It wouldn't be pretty, but it would not take long. Seoul would still be heavily damaged, but it seems like there is no real strategy where Seoul can come out ahead.

    8. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by Megol · · Score: 1

      Cake walk? Sure the US can defeat NK but at significant costs. Unless using a significant amount of nuclear weapons that is - which would make the US a pariah at least and potentially lead to wars with other countries.

      Really you have no fucking clue what you are talking about. The NK have a strong army of lesser quality than US forces but they have a _lot_ of trained soldiers that are ready to die for their country (if not their leader(s)). Quantity is a quality in itself.

    9. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by Megol · · Score: 1

      You are an idiot. Luckily the SK/US armies aren't.

    10. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

      Sure, they'll go down. They know this.

      Yeah, like they did in the Korean war, the very war which caused the whole "North Korea" and "South Korea" instead of just "Korea".

      --
      There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
    11. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      North Korea's plan will involve China. China doesn't want US troops on its border. It doesn't want millions of NK refugees flooding in. If the war turns hot, China's response will be a key part of the NK plan.

      That's one reason why nukes are out. Nuking NK will result in the US being nuked in retaliation, so basically WW3.

      NK must also be factoring in SK's strong desire to avoid the very large number of casualties and massive damage that would result. It doesn't so much matter if the artillery is ineffective against advancing US/SK forces, it only needs to hit Seoul.

      And that's not even counting the possibility of NK using its own nuclear weapons when there is no hope left for them. They can definitely hit SK and Japan, and maybe the US. It's unlikely that SK or Japan would be willing to risk that.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:I have a super secret copy of the plans by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Ground forces are not a problem and are easily immobilized by the Air Force, Army Air Corps, and Marines from the air. Remember the first gulf war? Iraq's ground forces got shellacked because they had zero control of the air. DPRK will have the same problem.

      Look, I'm not trying to sell DPRK short, they DO have a bunch of troops, but they have nearly zero Air support and nearly non-existent air defenses. Technologically they are out matched, out gunned and easy prey should a shooting war start. The first Gulf War proved that without control of the air space, all the troops in the world won't stand a chance, even using conventional weapons. So millions of troops, on foot with no hope of logistical support once the shooting starts are not a huge concern. We do need to contain them where they are north of the DMZ and that may take a few hours, but they will quickly lose the capability to move, except on foot and then only in small infiltration teams which will be a bloody mess for civilians, but tactically insignificant.

      If you cannot protect your troops from air attack, they will be limited to traveling on foot with what they can carry. If you cannot effectively resupply your ground troops they won't be an effective force and won't be able to move. They will be stuck in place, with any supplies they have, and that's about all.

      There are two things that worry me though...

      1. Shelling Seoul from north of the DMZ will be unavoidable. This will be short lived, but the causalities to civilian and military areas will be significant until it can be suppressed. BTW... You do realize that we have the ability to track incoming shells back to their origin and can have a return volley on the source within two rounds.. Right? As soon as DPRK forces fire, they will get 2 maybe 3 rounds before they die and it takes usually 2+ rounds to get on target unless you are lucky. Artillery will make a mess, but not for long. I'm worried about this mess and the relationship strain this will cause in the region.

      2. The first round of the Korean War was clearly lost by the north, until China stepped in. They had their butts kicked all the way to the border and clearly they would again. My fear is that China will once again step in, for the same reasons (Or that the Russians will do something). This is where this shooting war could get out of hand.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  4. Re:Today I learned by sittingnut · · Score: 1

    north korea probably does have "hackers" (btw nk isn't as isolated from rest of the world as western propaganda pretends), but nsa can also trot out "hackers" from whoever they have an agenda against.

  5. 235GB by thegreatbob · · Score: 2

    I wonder how they managed to download 235GB of data while it was still remotely relevant.

    Goes back to work imagining a datacenter full of hungry people trying to eat the dial-up modems...

    --
    There is no XUL, only WebExtensions...
    1. Re:235GB by rainer_d · · Score: 1

      Text as hi-res images pasted into PPT files?

      --
      Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
    2. Re:235GB by war4peace · · Score: 1

      Seriously though, I assume it's many pages of typing machine written documents, scanned and saved as .TIFF files.
      Probably something like 20-25K pages of shit.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    3. Re:235GB by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      Probably something like 20-25K pages of shit.

      ...laid out on a table, photographed, then faxed to NK.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  6. intentional by Kristoph · · Score: 1

    The US wants to let the North Korean's know that there will be 'fire and fury' ( and that the US really means it ) so they let their 'war plans' slip to put the fear of GOD into 'little rocket man'.

    1. Re: intentional by WrongMonkey · · Score: 1

      How has that worked out? Does North Korea seem to be backing down since last September?

    2. Re:intentional by losfromla · · Score: 1

      GOD? What does that acronym mean?

      --
      Only I can judge you.
  7. What plans? by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Funny

    What plans? You mean, if North Korean attacks, bomb them back to the Stone Age - meaning, "last week".

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:What plans? by bobbied · · Score: 1

      No, actually they have some pretty modern weapons... Just no roads to move them around or fuel for the trucks they are on.

      Their air defense network is pretty good, being built from hand me down, hand me downs they purchased from the Russians paying with fish and held together with left over bailing wire. It will be good as long as they don't actually try to use it.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  8. Stop playing Warcraft by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    plan to remove the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-un, referred to as a "decapitation" plan

    "Hey fatass! I know how you can lose 10 pounds real quick!"

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    1. Re:Stop playing Warcraft by losfromla · · Score: 1

      I hope dRumpft is listening, he could definitely lose 10 lbs at least. Maybe then he could get it up without a handful of viagra.

      --
      Only I can judge you.
  9. Last year's plans by reboot246 · · Score: 1

    There is a new American administration and there are new plans. Obama's plans were probably just kicking the can down the road, like every President since the 1950s.

    Plus, even if they did happen to steal legitimate plans, who is to say that they were "allowed" to steal them? We can read the "Art of War", too. :)

    1. Re:Last year's plans by bobbied · · Score: 1

      ...as opposed to orange hair il Douchebag's plan, which is to be as ignorant as any human can be, and then demonstrate said ignorance by starting WW3 as soon as possible.

      Hyperbolae much? As soon as possible would have been on January 20th right about noon. North Korea could have been a glowing parking lot by 3 PM eastern if the whole plan was to start a war with them. Trump must really be in your head or something.

      Seriously, do try to at least understand the man a bit better it will help you survive the full 8 year treatment you are in for... He's not trying to start a war, but he's not kicking the can down the road anymore either. He's not the smooth talking political animal you are used to, but a brash outspoken loud mouth that gets stuff done in his own way. He loves to tweak folks and get in his advisories heads, which is what he's doing to Kimmy boy in North Korea. I think that's a good thing actually. I want Kim to be looking over his shoulder and not sleeping well at night worried about what Trump might actually do. Nervous people make mistakes, costly mistakes, so all Trump need do is sit back and tweak the kid, get time for the sanctions to start to bite and see if Kim makes an unforced error of some kind.

      You don't have to like Trump, but at least try to understand that there might be a method in the madness you see.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re:Last year's plans by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      An Operation Mincemeat https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... got started by one part of the smarter parts of the US mil.
      Another part of the US gov desperate from some cyber action told the waiting media about the US cyber skills in action seeing plans "moving" down the internet tubes.
      The US gov is now so big its spying on its own tubes and different sections are desperate for bigger budgets and good cyber news stories.
      One good hidden mil plan becomes a contractor race to tell the media.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  10. Timing is interesting by WrongMonkey · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This hack took place just before the US election in November 2016. Which puts a different context to all rocket test launches that have happened since then. It suggests North Korea isn't just rattling sabers at an untested administration. They might actually have a larger scale plan.

  11. Can you be more specific? by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This hack took place just before the US election in November 2016. Which puts a different context to all rocket test launches that have happened since then. It suggests North Korea isn't just rattling sabers at an untested administration. They might actually have a larger scale plan.

    I'm probably being dense here, but... can you be more specific about what is suggested or what might be their plan, instead of the innuendo?

    Innuendo is good when everyone is on the same page and the circumstances suggest something obvious, but I'm not getting it here.

    Right before the election, Hillary was the overwhelming favourite to win. Trump's win couldn't have been reasonably predicted, so how could the "timing" of the data incident lead to the larger scale plan?

    I would expect such a tremendous upset (the election) would cause NK to *change* their plans. Development and deployment of missiles doesn't happen overnight, so...

    What does this suggest? Can you be more specific?

    (Could it also be a crime of opportunity? Where some NK hacker "got lucky" and grabbed the data without being a targetted, planned and orchestrated event?)

    1. Re:Can you be more specific? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

      No offense intended, but you do realize you look like an idiot when you're still pushing the "Russians haxored the 2016 election to make Trump win" thing at this point, right?

      Yes, like most Americans, I believe Russia intervened on Trump's behalf in the 2016 election.

      http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/22/...

      and the raw data...

      http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:Can you be more specific? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      North Korea's plan is to develop a nuclear defence capability and thus ensure they are not invaded by the US.

      Trump has been assisting them with this through his threats and name calling, and general weakness. It's given NK more justification to protect themselves, forced China and Russia to warn the US to back off, and further weakened Trump because he can never follow through on his threats of violence.

      Everyone is taking maximum advantage of Trump. NK, Russia, China, the EU, even Mexico...

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:Can you be more specific? by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      No offense intended, but you do realize you look like an idiot when you're still pushing the "Russians haxored the 2016 election to make Trump win" thing at this point, right?

      Actually, the major point isn't even that the Russians tried to affect our elections. Like most forms of espionage, we do it, they do it, everybody does it. That's the nature of the game, but when somebody gets caught, there is the political game of making a stink about it. That signifies to the foreign power they have gone too far and should pull it back some. This time, they get caught and the person who won not only hasn't made a stink about it, standing behind his country, but even encourages it. Signifying to the foreign power that they have not reached the limit of what they can do but can step up attempts to affect our politics even more before they are even told to stop. So now we have an American politician that is siding with foreign powers against American sovereignty because it favors him. The major threat here is that they are being influenced by a foreign power over the nation they are supposed to be acting in the best welfare of. This is after there was already suspicions that the same political figure was in financial debt to institutions of the same foreign power to which they refuse to clear up by even releasing information that is traditional for such candidates to release to the public even after winning. The major fear here is not that some foreign power tried to sway our elections, but that the winner of said election is being influenced if not acting complicitly with said foreign power for personal gain.

    4. Re:Can you be more specific? by khandom08 · · Score: 1

      BRAVO! +1 if I had mod points left.

    5. Re:Can you be more specific? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      Holy shit. You think a link to a CNN poll proves something?

      Holy. Shit.

      --
      Do you have ESP?
  12. Re:Today I learned by winse · · Score: 1

    two things:
    1. They probably aren't north Korean, but were hired by the administration...ie mercenaries
    2. I'm sure they got "da wheel pans" wink wink

    --
    this sig is deprecated
  13. Re:Today I learned by bobbied · · Score: 1

    I'm sure they got "da wheel pans" wink wink

    Wink wink... Of course they wheel Uns.... No way the South Koreans are smart enough to do a diversionary gambit or feed Littl' Kimmy's Toy Army misinformation. They wouldn't dare try to trick der Leader... No way at all...

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  14. Re: Today I learned by WrongMonkey · · Score: 1

    If the plans were a honeypot, then this announcement just spoiled the bait.

  15. Re:Today I learned by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

    No. Stealing South Korean military intelligence is not their business.

    This is their business: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/07/business/north-korea-embassies.html

  16. Re: Today I learned by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Or, did it?

    Do you suppose that if somebody stole the actual plans that *anybody* would admit to it?

    Also, do you suppose that given the apparent age of the plans in question and the changing of the governments of BOTH the USA and South Korea which included wholesale policy changes in regards to North Korea in both countries that even if the real plans had been laying out there for all to see that the *current* plans would be the same?

    Finally, do you also suppose that the North Koreans didn't already have a sufficient understanding of their own situation to not be able to anticipate what the US forces could do? My guess is that the North's leadership fully understands what the plan of the USA is in specific enough detail to know what's going to happen at least for the first few hours anyway, and after that, any specific plans you may have had are likely OBE anyway..

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  17. Re:Today I learned by Megol · · Score: 1

    You can visit them. They have diplomatic connections with several countries. They have trade agreements with several countries. A not insignificant number of people there get education abroad. They (as a country) have access to the Internet. They have radio broadcasts.

    Yes it's mostly one-way but they aren't isolated.