Slashdot Mirror


Silicon Valley 'Divided Society and Made Everyone Raging Mad', Argues Newsweek (newsweek.com)

"Anyone who is pissed off can now automatically find other people that are similarly pissed off," argues author Jamie Bartlett, in a new essay shared by Slashdot reader schwit1 which calls the internet "a bottomless well of available grievance." Here's an excerpt from Newsweek: Silicon Valley's utopians genuinely but mistakenly believe that more information and connection makes us more analytical and informed. But when faced with quinzigabytes of data, the human tendency is to simplify things. Information overload forces us to rely on simple algorithms to make sense of the overwhelming noise. This is why, just like the advertising industry that increasingly drives it, the internet is fundamentally an emotional medium that plays to our base instinct to reduce problems and take sides, whether like or don't like, my guy/not my guy, or simply good versus evil. It is no longer enough to disagree with someone, they must also be evil or stupid...

Nothing holds a tribe together like a dangerous enemy. That is the essence of identity politics gone bad: a universe of unbridgeable opinion between opposing tribes, whose differences are always highlighted, exaggerated, retweeted and shared. In the end, this leads us to ever more distinct and fragmented identities, all of us armed with solid data, righteous anger, a gutful of anger and a digital network of likeminded people. This is not total connectivity; it is total division.

49 of 320 comments (clear)

  1. Meh... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    > It is no longer enough to disagree with someone, they must also be evil or stupid...

    You'd think at least *some* people would be smart enough not to jump to such conclusions. There's gotta be some middle ground somewhere. So, I disagree and this is stupid.

    Oh, wait...

  2. The Hitchhiker's Guide on the Babelfish by locater16 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Meanwhile, the poor Babel fish, by effectively removing all barriers to communication between different races and cultures, has caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in the history of creation."

    1. Re:The Hitchhiker's Guide on the Babelfish by sysrammer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yeah, I thought that was an incredibly insightful paragraph from that book. It's said that civil wars are the bloodiest because the people are very similar and speak the same language.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    2. Re:The Hitchhiker's Guide on the Babelfish by djinn6 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't think that's actually true, looking at this list, for every civil war, there's a bigger international war that killed more people.

      I think this is because different civilizations tend to see each other as barbaric or less than human, and find it more acceptable to massacre entire cities of their opponents to make room for their own. On the other hand, in a civil war, you are only fighting for the control of the nation. Once you obtain that control, you'd want everyone to stop fighting and start working for you. Killing more people at that point would be meaningless.

    3. Re:The Hitchhiker's Guide on the Babelfish by sysrammer · · Score: 2

      I stand corrected.

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  3. It's never good enough with identity politics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What wasn't wrong yesterday is totally bigot, racist and sexist today. We live in the most sexist society ever.

    But if you look at the numbers, the real ones only thing that's happening is that over the past 30 years equality has become better.

    1. Re:It's never good enough with identity politics. by Rakarra · · Score: 2

      But if you look at the numbers, the real ones only thing that's happening is that over the past 30 years equality has become better.

      The actresses making allegations against Harvey Weinstein actually concur. The interviews I've heard have them saying basically, "look, this is kindof how it's always been. Harvey was more bold than most, but sexism is the dirty secret no one liked bringing up in public."

    2. Re:It's never good enough with identity politics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Men use their power to get sex. Women use sex to get power.

      Just as many or more women used Weinstein's cravings to advance their career as Weinstein victimized because he could. A small number of people claiming Weinstein victimized them were part of the previous group and are now using the culture of victimhood to acquire even more career advancement.

      This sexist idea that women aren't predatory, or that they are in the same way as men are but less often, needs to be left in the past.

  4. It's the economy stupid by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The crazy shit going on is all due to a weak economy for the working class. The pro corporate folks have their knickers in a twist because they didn't expect Trump or Brexit and they're not sure how that's all going to play out. News flash, you can't have the cake and eat it too. Keep shitting on the working class and eventually they'll do something dumb. Probably another World War or they'll pick a minority for genocide.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:It's the economy stupid by HornWumpus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's just about degree. The costs of Globalism are largely born by the blue collar workers. Outsourcing IT is nothing compared to just moving multiple industries at the same time.

      They just need to adjust an exchange rate (or three) a few tens of points for the next decade.

      The real problem with 'managed anger' (kept just below boil), is that all governments do it, many with multiple groups. Eventually all the governments can't manage all the groups and ugly shit happens.

      Right now, the good path is all about China. But anyplace could be the trigger for the bad path. The post WWII baby boom is still a financial demographic bomb for 'the west'.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:It's the economy stupid by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's only a small piece of the puzzle, and this is nothing new. American politics has always been divided to some degree because the first past the post system essentially guarantees that there be two big parties opposed to each other. The biggest change is that the internet has made it easier for people who would have never been able to organize previously to get together and build their own little digital enclaves. People can form communities more easily now than at and point in history and physical presence is no longer a requirement. This is incredibly awesome on the whole, but of course there are going to be bad outcomes as well.

      The other big problem is that the internet is entirely impersonal. If you put 99% of people who get pissed off at each other on the internet together in the real world, they'd be a lot more civil. It's pretty easy to forget that there's another human being at the other end of the online conversation when you're just starting at a screen. When there's a real person there, you start to pick up on all manner of body language cues that just don't exist online and can't just mentally write them off as Satan.

    3. Re:It's the economy stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Let's face it, you can't physically assault me online. That's why people say whatever they want whenever they want. In real life, you start spouting enough stupid shit at enough people and eventually someone is going to punch you in the face.

      Most of us just walk away, but eventually someone won't.

    4. Re:It's the economy stupid by jonsmirl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I agree that neither party is remotely ready for the impact of the baby boom fully retiring. A huge day of reckoning is looming when the baby boom asks for their Social Security and Medicare and then discover that the cupboard is bare and those IOU's at the Fed are worthless because the money has been spent. I have no clue how this will get resolved, but it is not going to be pretty.

    5. Re:It's the economy stupid by jlowery · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Hmmm... now, why would American society be divided?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      For those who can't afford health care though working two jobs, the only way to keep them docile is to turn them against imaginary bogey men. This works, because they don't have an inkling as to how obscenely wealthy the 0.01% are.

      --
      If you post it, they will read.
    6. Re:It's the economy stupid by execthis · · Score: 2

      This makes me think of the movie "Hypernormalization" which is based on a faulty premise but which brings up the concept of "managed outcomes": Basically society falling apart and unmanageable but they just do minimal things to keep things from getting too extreme.

      Hence more and more criminals are being released on the streets. People are increasingly victimized by crimes committed by people who should never have been out of prison, and this is considered an acceptable consequence to the powers that be. Most people go along with or ignore it until they become a victim.

      They want to maintain an illusion that things are planned, that our society is based on rules, but increasingly politicians - particular the most "progressive" ones - see their jobs as being rule-breakers-in-chief. So rule of law - one of the hallmarks of civil society - is on it's way out.

      The politicians view the working classes they are supposed to represent the same way as companies like Facebook view their "users". The users are the product that gets sold. The electorate is what the politicians sell out to various moneyed interests in our very corrupt plutocracy.

      Democratic big-city political machines which are well-extended into the state and federal levels use social justice issues to gain support but the real dirty stuff they do is always behind-the-scenes.

      The majority of both parties are beholden to the Chambers of Commerce which are happy to sell Americans out and are pro open-borders, mass immigration, happy to see the working class undercut and wiped out to increase their profits.

      America is in a dark time. Very dark.

    7. Re:It's the economy stupid by jeff4747 · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's a massive amount of wrong condensed into a single paragraph.

      1. Social Security and Medicare are paid out of two different funding sources.

      2. Medicare has no expected shortage despite the Baby Boomers retiring. The taxes paid by GenX and Millennials will cover it, just like GenX and Boomer taxes paid for Silent/WWII-generation's Medicare.

      3. The Social Security Trust Fund is supposed to go bankrupt.

      It was created in 1983 in anticipation of the Boomers retiring. In the original design, Social Security benefits are paid out of the taxes collected today. That works as long as each generation is larger than the previous. When GenX turned out much smaller than the Boomers, there was a problem. Enter the trust fund. Boomers, GenX and now Millennials have been paying higher taxes over the last 34 years to build up a trust fund to cover the Boomers. And only the Boomers.

      After the Boomers, we go back to each generation being larger than the last. So we can go back to the ~2 younger generations funding the one older generation. (Technically, this will depend on how many kids the Millennials end up having. So far, so good on that front.). Under current projections, the Trust Fund will last until virtually all the Boomers have died of old age.

      4. There will not come a day where we suddenly have to pay the Social Security Trust Fund back, because we've already been paying the Trust Fund back. The Social Security Trust fund can only invest in US Bonds. Those bonds have a maturity date where the money has to be paid back. And that maturity date has already passed for some of the bonds. (The principal and interest were used to buy more bonds initially, at the moment some of the interest is being paid as benefits. Just as planned)

      So no, there will not be a sudden need for more money. There has been and will continue to be a gradual reduction in how many bonds the trust fund can buy. That could theoretically increase the deficit, but if you give a damn about that then fix it via the general fund instead of a Rube Goldberg design involving Social Security.

      6. If you really want the trust fund to continue to exist, the fix is incredibly easy - raise the cap on FICA taxes. Back when Social Security started, about 95% of income was subject to FICA taxes. Thanks to the growth of income inequality, only 70-someodd percent of income is subject to FICA taxes. The difference is caused by the wealthy making more money.

      In 2017, the cap is $127,200. $127,201 and up are not subject to Social Security taxes. So raise that cap to ~$200-250k and the trust fund lasts forever...not that it would actually be needed.

      7. Remember point 1 about Medicare and Social Security having different funding streams? Medicare taxes don't have the cap mentioned in 6. That's why it doesn't have a near-term funding problem.

      8. Attempting to balance the budget 30 years from now is an incredibly stupid exercise. We can't predict the economy 10 years from now with reasonable accuracy. You think we can nail 30 years?

      In summary, any pundit or politician giving dire warnings about insolvency and sudden repayment are lying to you in an attempt to convince you to support cuts.

    8. Re:It's the economy stupid by jeff4747 · · Score: 4, Informative

      The taxpayers paid into Social Security. The money paid was treated like general revenue and spent.

      False

      In its place there is an IOU from the treasury called a US Bond.

      False

      How does the treasury repay these bonds in the future?

      Same way we've been repaying the bonds for the last 30 years. Again, there will not be some sort of sudden payment coming due.

      The scheme keeps working until China stops buying treasuries.

      False.

      First, China stopped buying significant amounts of US bonds in 2006. They were trying to use these transfers to keep the Yuan low versus the Dollar, but you can only make a river flow upstream for so long. They currently use other, more direct methods. So if China not buying bonds was supposed to be a disaster, we'd have started that disaster a long time ago.

      Second, countries are not the only entities that can buy government bonds. In fact, about 80% of US federal debt is owned by Americans and American corporations. And considering inflation-protected bonds are selling at close to 0% interest, we're not in danger of that drying up overnight.

  5. Re:Recency illusion by DevNull127 · · Score: 2

    So are you calling me evil -- or stupid?

  6. Alvin Toffler/John Brunner by bferrell · · Score: 2

    The future shock/shockwave rider effect writ large.

    I love how this effect was predicted in the late 60's

  7. Re:Newsweek is evil AND stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    not or.

    How is the summary incorrect? Our divisions are growing wider and it is easier to find like minded people.

    I seriously think that if impeachment starts Trump will go nuclear, possibly with nuclear weapons to distract or such, but more likely by ramping up the us vs them stuff to infinity and beyond until there is blood in the streets. He used the divisions and furthered them for his own end, but the divisions were there. Make America Great Again is just a polite way to blame everyone that isn't like them. It is at its heart exploiting deep seated racism and hate for political power.

    I very much fear that this is going to all end badly. The expression fiddling while Rome burned is apt and seems to apply here. Winning at all costs is not winning at all.

    Leaders must have a moral center, else our society suffers. They must have a sense of decency. I knew Donald Trump was the lowest form of life I've ever seen as a presidential candidate when he approved shoving Bill Clinton's mistresses in Hillary's face. Hillary is not Bill. That was beyond despicable.

    The fact that so many people in America think that kind is okay if they just get their guy is well, truly sad.

    What has happened to us? Wearing a flag pin does not make you patriotic. Preaching of your religion does not make you moral. The ends does not and never will make the means morally right.

    You can't build a country on a stack of sinful decisions and expect good to flourish. I had thought we were better than this, but I'm less sure these days.

  8. The internet doesn't force anyone to be a nitwit. by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    However it rewards them if they try.

    Specifically social media, which is a massively distributed operant conditioning machine which rewards people to conformity. Conformity to what? Here's the novel wrinkle: anything. The owners of social media don't really care where the bandwagon you jump on is going, as long as a lot of people jump on; people whom they will be able to sell.

    It's not access to information. It's the intrusion of information designed to trigger montetizable responses that's the problem.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  9. Re: Newsweek is evil AND stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Congratulations on demonstrating the article's main thesis. You are part of the problem.

    I'll also be part of the problem now when I call you out for being a fucking moron.

  10. Re:still that guys fault? by sysrammer · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sadly, the alt-left has many of the same techniques and the same goal: power over others.

    As Mr. Adams so eloquently states, "People are a problem".

    --
    His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  11. Re: still that guys fault? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Right, because it was Trump supporters who called Trump "literally Hitler" and have been in an Olympics with themselves to fabricate more and more outrageous statements ever since.

  12. Re:The internet doesn't force anyone to be a nitwi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Interesting operant conditioning basiclly describes perfectly shows like John Oliver.

    It goes like this:
            fact
            fact
            fact, with a sincere face
            lie
            joke
            loud pun or shout something
            serious face

    EXAMPLE:
            polar bears are cute
            polar bears are important
            here's a picture of a polar bear
            republicans want to kill all polar bears
            TIMOTHY STOP TRYING TO FUCK THE POLAR BEAR!
            But seriously, here's a picture of a dead baby seal

    This is how we consume 'news'. These shows have embraced the quick bites of youtube and twitter.

  13. Re:Technology is an accelerator and amplifier by sysrammer · · Score: 2

    And the internet is no different: It accelerates and amplifies. People who couldn't find information in a library can't find information on the internet. People who believe biased newspaper articles believe biased blog entries. To people who use and value information, the internet is a great resource. Some of the stress that the internet causes is just seeing the stupid that would normally be filtered out by more restrictive media.

    Great summary of the issue.

    But it also enables great talents that we'd never know without it: Organized media brought us Payola and heavy rotation.

    Yep, follow the stupid, er, follow the money!

    "There's a sucker born every minute", and they have a spare buck that they're willing to toss on the stage.

    --
    His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
  14. It's not Silicon Valley, it's the Internet by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Insightful
    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  15. Re: Newsweek is evil AND stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Congratulations on demonstrating the article's main thesis. You are part of the problem.

    I'll also be part of the problem now when I call you out for being a fucking moron.

    This is just lovely. I suppose your theory is that people that don't support your side are the problem, which would make you correct in that you are part of the problem, but also misses the main point.

    The divisions exist, of that there is no doubt, and unless we call out and condemn those who make them worse, there is also no hope of fixing them, though I will give you credit for doing your best to make them worse. Top form there.

    A democratic and republican ex president both gave similar speeches last week, but it seems very few actually listened.

  16. Twitter is for lazy reporters by mveloso · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Twitter is the ultimate source for lazy reporters. Need an opinion? Find it on twitter. They can find anyone saying anything and use them as a source.

    Twitter should be banned from reportage, period.

  17. Guess who feels threatened? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Anyone who is pissed off can now automatically find other people that are similarly pissed off," argues author Jamie Bartlett, in a new essay...

    This used to be the prerogative of essayists in newsmagazines. Now they feel marginalized by public access to rich sources of information and online pulpits far bullier than any fora they had available to them in the days when freedom of the press was only available to those who owned presses.

  18. Re: Newsweek is evil AND stupid by Rakarra · · Score: 2, Insightful

    This is just lovely. I suppose your theory is that people that don't support your side are the problem, which would make you correct in that you are part of the problem, but also misses the main point.

    The "Trump will go nuclear!" thing is hyperbole; it means you've fallen for the demonization. 'Our side' always tells us the people on the 'other side' are absolutely the worst, that there's nothing that they wouldn't do if we let them. We convince ourselves about it -- I heard it about Clinton, Bush, Obama, and now Trump. It's always, always the most important election in our lifetime, always the time to vote for the leader of the primary opposition party, never for anyone else because, dammit, this is too important to waste a vote.

  19. "identity politics gone bad" by MSTCrow5429 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    No, it inherently *is* bad. It's inhuman, as it distills individual human identities into one monolithic gestalt where individuals are told who they must be and what they must do; and if they're not, then they're ostracized as "evil" and/or "stupid," who don't know and can't believe in what they're saying. "Identity" politics erases all identity in the service of low politics.

    --
    Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
    1. Re:"identity politics gone bad" by fibonacci8 · · Score: 2

      No, it inherently *is* bad. It's inhuman, as it distills individual human identities into one monolithic gestalt where individuals are told who they must be and what they must do; and if they're not, then they're ostracized as "evil" and/or "stupid," who don't know and can't believe in what they're saying. "Identity" politics erases all identity in the service of low politics.

      So, you're saying "identity politics" is the politically correct term for "religion"?

      --
      Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
    2. Re:"identity politics gone bad" by Nicolas+Cage · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I was also struck by this phrase. The author was on to something, but implying that identity politics sometimes can sometimes be good is laughable.

  20. Re: Newsweek is evil AND stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm not the OP, but I too think Trump would nuke NK as a distraction. I read his book the art if the deal and that is exactly the kind of thing you would expect from the person who authorized that ghost written biopic.

  21. Re:still that guys fault? by TapeCutter · · Score: 2

    The only people who can't see that left and right extremist are cut from the same cloth are left and right extremists.

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  22. Oh come on, it's a comedy by Kargan · · Score: 2

    Silicon Valley's sense of humor is not for everyone, but come on, Newsweek, this is taking it a little too far.

    I mean, I'm not so sure either about the next season given that it will be the first one without T.J. Miller, but I'm willing to give it a shot.

    --
    Palaces, barricades, threats, meet promises
  23. Re: still that guys fault? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Hitler was to the left. Ghandi, Kennedy, and Mandela were also nationalists. Using the term nationalist does not make someone similar to Hitler.

  24. Re: still that guys fault? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I can find at least 13 quotes of Trump condemning white supremacists and white nationalism EXPLICITLY.

    There is not a single quote or action of his supporting anything you said. The only "evidence" is literally 4 word phrases cut out of complete sentences to strip them of all context. I dare you to provide a single statement, not paraphrased, that even remotely supports your idiotic claim.

  25. Re: Newsweek is evil AND stupid by mentil · · Score: 2

    Would've modded you up if you'd given a citation. The President has the Football and AFAIK can use it at any time for any reason.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  26. Re: Newsweek is evil AND stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The problem is people are diving in to ideological bubbles and hear nothing but the echo chamber. The fact that you chose the words "honest" and "ethical" shows your bias. You're so buried in a world of group think you believe that anyone that thinks differently is automatically dishonest and lacks ethics. The entire point of this article is that we as a society need to intermingle. Hear differing points of view. Have honest debate (that means actually listening). People on the right are very much as guilty as well of searching for those they agree with.

    We're stronger as a people when we have mutual respect and work together. All we're doing by being smug and thinking we're smarter, more ethical and have all the answers is tearing ourselves apart.

    This article is an interesting read on perspective. I can't vouch for how authentic it is though. I didn't bother researching the author. http://nypost.com/2017/10/21/the-other-half-of-america-that-the-liberal-media-doesnt-cover/

  27. Re:Mainstream mass media did it... apk by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2
    "Follow the Money"

    I think "Follow the monkey" is currently more popular in the USA.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  28. Re: still that guys fault? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The same happened to Damore. His memo was stripped of all references, and an emphasis was placed on the word "neurosis", completely taken out of its psychological context, and made to seem like he is just calling girls "neuroric". That's despicable.

    I am not worried about the alt-right. They have little power over the common folks. But a "prigressive left" that is in total control of the media and without any oversight of their responsibilities... that's alarming.

  29. Re:still that guys fault? by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 2

    There is some truth to this. But there is a pretty serious difference between the far left and the far right: The far left is marginalized even within the left-most of US parties, whereas the far right not only controls the right-most of US parties, they have control of the Presidency and the House of Representatives, near control of the Senate, and control of something like half of state legislatures and governorships. So, while the far left and the far right share some similarities in terms of where their extremism would take the country, the risk posed by the far right is FAR, FAR greater than the risk posed by the far left.

  30. Re:Newsweek is evil AND stupid by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 2

    I'm old enough to remember, very well, the politics of the impeachment of President Nixon.

    I'm old enough to remember Nixon too. However your memory is faulty. Nixon was never impeached. He resigned, which put an end to the impeachment process. He was later pardoned by Ford, which allowed Nixon to also avoid any criminal prosecution as well.

    Granted, after the House judiciary committee investigation, the impeachment process was formally initiated for three counts. But his resignation put an end to it. There was debate on charging him for the bombing of Cambodia, but that never passed the vote. So he was never in any danger of being impeached for actually killing people.

  31. Re: Newsweek is evil AND stupid by orgelspieler · · Score: 2

    Do I understand your argument correctly? "This great division began during the last administration," because BLM? You really think that's what the great division is? What about: Roe v. Wade, the War on Drugs, the Red Scare, intelligent design, bra burning, flag burning, AIDS, assault weapons, lynchings, Prohibition, internment camps, slavery, etc. ad nauseam? America always has strife and divisions. These divisions are stoked by those seeking power.

    Of course, they don't hide it or even pretend anymore. "The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president." Not "govern well" or "fix the tax code" or "end the war in Iraqistanya" or even "do what's best for our constituents for the next couple of years." The only way people stay in power or gain power is by demonizing something else.

    Coming up with solutions and doing good governance will not bring millions of grumpy old white men to the polls. But whipping up a frenzy because "Your trans neighbor is gay married to a free-range emu and wants to take away your guns while doing ecstasy until you sacrifice an American flag to Satan!" will turn them out in droves.

  32. Re:still that guys fault? by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 2

    How do you figure Bernie is far left? He's a pretty mainstream center-left guy. His primary policy proposals (universal health care, free public colleges) are ones that have been implemented in countries across the world, and that have been defended by even conservative parties in most of those countries. Compare that to the far right, and it's pretty clear that this is not a "both sides do it" scenario.

  33. Re:Newsweek is evil AND stupid by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

    You've mentioned some of the reasons I did not call it a _successful_ impeachment. The case did involve the _politics_ of impeachment. Part of the point I was trying to make is that he killed thousands but was charged on relatively trivial grounds, grounds that offended the sensibilities of Congress and were exposed to the voting American public. I considered his illegal attacks on Cambodia to be far worse offenses because of the deaths of thousands. But as your point about Cambodia attacks outlines, there was no political will to charge him for those impeachable offenses.

  34. Re:Mostly, you're right by jeff4747 · · Score: 2

    But you got one important point wrong - the money collected WAS spent when collected. There's no giant piggy bank holding all those people's money collected as FICA over the years. Just IOUs from Uncle Sam.

    This is utterly and completely false. It can not possibly be more wrong without invoking the Earth being flat or anti-vaxx theology.

    The Social Security Trust fund is a giant piggy bank. Like all sensible savings plans, it invests the money. The money was invested in US government bonds. Those bonds are not "IOUs". They are savings instruments just like bonds issued by companies or states or cities or banks. They have a maturity date, at which time the government has to pay the money back, along with interest.

    Most importantly, the maturity date has already passed for many of these bonds. As in, they are not IOUs laying around, they have been paid back with interest.

    The money raised by these bond sales are not an automatic infusion of money into the general fund. They are money owed by the government, so they count as deficit spending. It was not "free money". At best, you can argue that these bonds are paying a lower interest rate than bonds that would have been sold on the open market. But bonds on the open market already were paying extremely low interest, so it's difficult to argue the difference is all that large.

    The congress got used to having billions every year coming in that didn't count as "federal taxes",

    The conservative movement started pretending the only federal taxes are income taxes 60 years ago. It's how they can claim 47% pay "no taxes" - by pretending income tax is the only one that counts.

    FICA taxes are federal taxes. It doesn't matter that they are not income tax. They are still federal taxes.