Slashdot Mirror
High-Nicotine E-Cigarettes May Make Teens Vape More, Study Warns (philly.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Philly.com: Teens who vape e-cigarettes with higher nicotine levels are more likely to start smoking conventional cigarettes soon after, new research shows. E-cigarettes are sold with nicotine levels ranging from zero to more than 25 milligrams of nicotine per milliliter (mg/mL). In this study, a high-nicotine device was defined as having levels at or above 18 mg/mL. Leventhal's team tracked outcomes for 181 grade-10 students from high schools in the Los Angeles area. All of the teens said they had used e-cigarettes within the past month, and they provided data on nicotine levels in the devices they used. Six months later, those who used higher nicotine levels in their e-cigarettes were more likely to report use of both e-cigarettes and regular cigarettes within the past month. These teens also reported vaping and/or smoking more intensely. While 43 percent of the students who'd used high-nicotine e-cigarettes said they were "frequent smokers" of traditional cigarettes six months later, that was true for only 10 percent of those who'd vaped using lower-nicotine devices, Leventhal's group found. And teens who vaped using high-nicotine e-cigarettes smoked an average of 14 times as many "regular" cigarettes per day six months later compared to those who'd tried nicotine-free versions of the devices, the findings showed. The study was published in JAMA Pediatrics.
The study also shows that 6 months after they started smoking traditional cigs, the subjects began straight up injecting the liquid into their veins... which eventually lead to them booty bumping the e-cig liquid.
[($)]
I use an e-Cig as an alternative to hookah. No more worries about a coal getting tipped and burning the carpet/floor/table and the flavor is way better. Plus it's portable though I never take it outside of my house. I've never smoked cigarettes and always use 0mg nicotine juices.
Its nice to see that natural selection is being kept alive.
"And teens who vaped using high-nicotine e-cigarettes smoked an average of 14 times as many "regular" cigarettes per day six months later compared to those who'd tried nicotine-free versions of the devices"
This is ridiculous. Kids that e-smoked nicotine smoked more than kids that smoked nicotine-free e-cigs? What's the point of smoking if you have nicotine-free e-cigs?
"In this study, a high-nicotine device was defined as having levels at or above 18 mg/mL." I vape in the high 90 watt, low 100 watt range depending on device, but holy shit hitting a liquid with anything higher than 12mg/ml at that power is straight up painful. And while you certainly can find it online, the local shops I go to sell mostly in the 3mg and 6mg range. So yeah, if 18 or 25 isn't doing it for you, you almost have to go to cigarettes because vaping with liquid that strong at even moderate wattage is like having your throat scraped with a thousand tiny ice picks.
Abandon All Hope, Ye Who Enter Here
Nicotine is nothing. The smallest slice that will get you off cigs.
But all the other chemicals from smoking? That's the REAL addiction there.
All the thousands of compounds in the cigs or created by burning them together. That's the real danger. And the real addiction.
A chemical stew that ohhhhhhhh... yeah.
You can vape an insane dangerous nicotine level like 6%. Get used to it.
And even after all that. A few puffs on a real cig will FUCK YOU UP like a kid hotboxing his first marlboro.
Ecigs are the best thing ever invented to finally kill smoking once and for all. We could do it. We should be throwing these things at people.
(good ones. not gas station garbage.)
We could be the generation that ends smoking. But nope. the anti-vape propaganda is well funded.
Vaping by itself is completely harmless with nicotine being on par with caffeine in terms of harm and effects.
This is nothing more than the anti cigarette brigade getting their panties in a wad over the fact that people flat out love nicotine and want to enjoy it without the bad effects of cigarettes (which are bad).
Better the young'ins be vaping rather than smoke cigarettes.
Kids that take drugs take more drugs than kids that don't. News at 11.
Nicotine is addictive.
... but not particulary harmful. Nicotine addicts are way better off vaping than smoking.
The article didn't indicate if these users were already smoking traditional cigarettes, the study only indicates that they were asked if their friends smoked cigs or hookah.
In the high mg group 95% of their friends smoked(and likely they did as well). Without having the numbers of who the smokers were at the beginning of the study, the conclusion is suspect. Another study out of nannystate cali with a couple harrumphs from their cousin NY. This comes out as Gottlieb is re-evaluating the regulations that were released with the deeming ruling of 2016.
This data was gathered from 2013-2015, which was still in the stone age of vaping. Modern devices utilize a much lower range of nicotine from 0-6mg/ml.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2657310
Listen up, you younger Slashdotters: Don't start smoking. It's a filthy, smelly habit and nobody wants to be around a smoker. Now nicotine is a pretty decent recreational drug, and if you're going to use it, vaping is how you want to go, but stay off it until you're fully grown. I don't know if it's true or not, but people used to say that if you smoked when you were young, it would stunt your growth, so just don't take a chance. And that applies to all recreational drugs. Wait until you're fully grown, then do as thou wilt.
Also, stay in school and always wear a rubber. And be nice to each other.
I'm glad we had this talk.
You are welcome on my lawn.
When are F-Cigarettes coming out?
Table-ized A.I.
Wow! They figured out that using more of an addictive chemical makes you want the addictive chemical more? That is simply shocking.
... but not particulary harmful.
That's only true in very low doses. You can easily overdose on it and die.
If you don't believe that, just go buy a box of nicotine patches and stick them all on your body at once, and see what happens...
Nicotine is closely related to choline- a popular aid to mental performance. Users have discovered that it can help with memory and test performance in college. Nicotine is shown to reduce stress in various environments such as noisy factory settings. It is addictive in the same way that protein, caffeine and sweets are. In other words, it's a very mild craving and closely related to the stress of your lifestyle.
Yes, it is one of over 100 ingredients in cigarets that may be harmful in some sense. Nevertheless, you will some day see nicotine as a dietary supplement that can enhance your cognition and improve your life. Don't be a sucker for the emotional and ignorant anti smoke fanatics. Here on Slashdot at least, there should be some room for science.
...omphaloskepsis often...
I mean, sure, just like an alcoholic is better off drinking light beer or spirits so they don't ingest so many empty calories.
That is not a very good analogy. To an alcoholic, it is the alcohol that is harmful. But to a smoker, it is not the nicotine that causes cancer and heart disease. It is the tar and other crap in the smoke. If you vape, you don't get that.
And? That doesn't mean that a person will go out and seek other sources of it when they already have a steady supply.
Not really. You're ignoring the addiction and trying to make the delivery method healthier.
I got a really nasty rash.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
At least in the EU, they certainly wouldn't. The limitations on nicotine in cigarettes over here mean that you can have WAY, WAY higher nicotine levels in your vape than in a whole pack of cigs.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Of course heâ(TM)s ignoring the addiction as the addiction itself is not particularly harmful. Vast majority of damage comes from the byproducts.
Nicotine is addictive.
... but not particulary harmful. Nicotine addicts are way better off vaping than smoking.
From TFS:
"Teens who vape e-cigarettes with higher nicotine levels are more likely to start smoking conventional cigarettes soon after...43 percent of the students who'd used high-nicotine e-cigarettes said they were "frequent smokers" of traditional cigarettes six months later...
Seems you missed the main point being driven here.
Over 450,000 deaths per year in America and 7 million worldwide. Cigarettes are probably the most addictive product man has ever created. It continues to reign as the #1 cause of preventable death, and yet it is a legal product.
By comparison, anything else on the entire fucking planet is "not particularly harmful". And I think it's pretty clear that e-cigarettes aren't really doing a damn thing to prevent or deter the traditional product.
Of course, nicotine causes anxiety and sleeping disorders, so it's not harmless either.
ban conventional cigarettes which are a public health danger.
The CDC says it is over 480,000 deaths in the U.S. for 2016. Now about banning the little brown refugees so the don't come and kill Americans, one must have a sense of priorities to be good little zenophobe.
E-Cigarettes have also been linked to inflammatory lung disease https://newatlas.com/e-cigaret...
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
So.... drug users that consume higher doses of their addictive drugs increase their drug consumption over time, not lower it.
And so who does this surprise? That's the nature of addiction!
I thought we were told that the intention of the nicotine-containing vapes was to try to wean the addicts off the stuff in a more public-friendly and medically-safe manner than reducing their cigarette consumption? Clearly they're just changing their form of addictive behavior, and in too many cases, increasing it.
There ought to be a cap on the amount of nicotine in the vapes, and that cap should be lowered at a steady rate over a fixed number of years until it hits zero. We need to stop supporting these legalized addictive drug dealers as a permanent establishment and seek to shut down the addictive drug industry entirely in the foreseeable future.
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
Beyond the misleading choice not to baseline the high-nicotine vapors/smokers for prior smoking levels, I also find it curious that the study didn't track the youths' opinions on e-cigs vs cigarettes in terms of health/harm. Considering that over the past 5 years the "official" US government "message" has been that vaping is as, and sometimes more, dangerous than smoking cigarettes (obvious hogwash), I have found a lot of smokers who had switched to vaping (some, entirely, completely off cigarettes) go back to smoking "because the government says there is no difference." This would have been a useful data point to track, especially in a nanny-state like California where such mixed-messaging is too-often used as a governmental propaganda tool. That the researchers decided not to track a simple question of "WHY smoke?" is, to me, quite telling as to the purpose of the study, since that basic question would have shed a lot of light on actual causation (vs mere speculation).
Scott
"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."
You can easily overdose on it and die.
That depends on your definition of "easily". You make it sound like this happens accidentally in some recognizable rate. You can chain smoke packs and not have much to worry about in terms of putting yourself in the hospital. It's not like alcohol. You might notice a racing pulse and nausea. In which case, stop...
No, you can't "easily" overdose on it unless you mean "intentionally" overdose on it.
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Of course, nicotine causes anxiety and sleeping disorders, so it's not harmless either.
The only solution to that is to find something else to smoke that helps with anxiety and sleep. Lemme think... What could I smoke that would help with anxiety and sleep...
Of course, some people may find solutions that don't involve smoking at all, but what use are those?
He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
Who'd have thought that an addictive substance could be addictive. E-cigarettes might be "better" than regular cigarettes but that's damning with faint praise.
Did you read the summary?
Six months later, those who used higher nicotine levels in their e-cigarettes were more likely to report use of both e-cigarettes and regular cigarettes within the past month
The point of this article is that vaping with high-nicotine liquid correlates with eventually smoking. Meaning, if we want to keep the young'ins from smoking cigarettes ("which are bad"), maybe we need to keep them away from high-nicotine e-liquid too.
And I think it's pretty clear that e-cigarettes aren't really doing a damn thing to prevent or deter the traditional product.
I don't know what the statistics are, but I have switched from smoking to vaping (hate that term). I feel a lot better and can breathe more easily. I don't know about others, but personally a vaporizer has helped me completely quit smoking.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Nicotine is not harmful but vaping appears to be https://newatlas.com/e-cigaret...
From the linked article:
I'm not saying that e-cigarettes are completely harmless; I assume they are not. But I do think they are less harmful than cigarettes, by quite a bit. It's a matter of harm-reduction not complete elimination.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
There ought to be a cap on the amount of nicotine in the vapes, and that cap should be lowered at a steady rate over a fixed number of years until it hits zero. We need to stop supporting these legalized addictive drug dealers as a permanent establishment and seek to shut down the addictive drug industry entirely in the foreseeable future.
"We" are not supporting this industry. Its customers are, because they value the product enough to spend money on it. You really think we should be legislating what vices people are allowed to have? That's been tried, you know. From Prohibition to the War on Drugs, it hasn't worked out very well and has not achieved the desired outcomes.
You gotta let people do what they want to do with their time and their bodies, even if you think it's bad for them. That's part of living in a free country. No one lives a perfect, harm-free life and that's okay. Just let people do their thing and give them help if they ask for it. If you want to give them information about the harmfulness of their actions, I think that's great and would support it. But legislation and the punishments that result from noncompliance are not the answer.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Fuck yeh! Also sports, driving, running too fast, candy and sex.
Yes, exactly. You can always find something that someone is doing that you think they ought not be doing.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
There was a story about a woman that died for that very reason.
https://games.slashdot.org/sto...
You can't hit the jingoistic sweet spot to get elected by railing against tobacco.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
I suppose it's a question of degree-of-harm. Everyone knows that smoking is horrible for your health. Using a vaporizer is probably still bad, but not anywhere as horrible as smoking.
Not smoking or using any nicotine product is obviously better yet. But these people are chemically addicted, so reason only goes so far.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
Nicotine is addictive.
... but not particulary harmful. Nicotine addicts are way better off vaping than smoking.
Nicotine addicts are much better off not using nicotine and if they vape to get there that is fine, but many are just permanently swapping which is not ideal.
I would not rely on an op-ed from Forbes. The effects and risks of nicotine, especially to the cardiovascular system are well known. The nicotine patch for Alzheimer's in that op-ed has been in and out of the news since 1999, but so far nothing has come of it.
Argh. The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
as well as whether cigarettes were unhealthy. You need studies to prove what should be obvious because people make billions lying about things.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
better the young'ins be doing neither. Go read Fred Pohl's The Space Merchants.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Works as intended, not as publicly advertised.
Yes, indeed. I was coming at it from a public policy as advertised point of view. But I agree that the public rationale is not the true rationale for these policies.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)