Apple Could Launch Two New Full-Screen iPhones Next Year (theverge.com)

Electronic garbage by invictusvoyd · 2017-11-13 19:11 · Score: 3, Insightful

The rate at which companies are churning out phones should be generating a lot of e-waste. Shouldn't there be some effort to produce long lasting hardware? I hate to change a phone every year or so .

Re:Electronic garbage by BlacKSacrificE · 2017-11-13 19:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

I hate to change a phone every year or so .
Who says you have to? A modern flagship phone is good for at least two years, and if the S4 I recently handed off to a relative is anything to go by, significantly longer.

You choose to update every year, there's not a gun to your head, and if you are as concerned about e-waste as you claim to be, this should not even be a question in your mind.

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Re:Electronic garbage by phayes · 2017-11-13 19:52 · Score: 5, Informative

Then don’t renew every year but every 2 or 3 or 4 or 5. iPhones are generally supported by Apple with updates to be OS for more years than android phones are. Besides which, Apple will take back and responsbly recycle old phones when you buy new iPhones at an Apple store.

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Re:Electronic garbage by geekmux · 2017-11-13 21:50 · Score: 1

I hate to change a phone every year or so .
Who says you have to? A modern flagship phone is good for at least two years, and if the S4 I recently handed off to a relative is anything to go by, significantly longer. You choose to update every year, there's not a gun to your head, and if you are as concerned about e-waste as you claim to be, this should not even be a question in your mind.
Who says you have to? Greed does.
Every year new models are marketed with the "best" whizz-bang hardware, and yet they are somehow unsupportable after 2-3 years (which would also include your S4) They're now manufactured with sealed cases and non-replaceable batteries to prevent upgrades or maintenance.
Put another way, how many other $500+ electronic devices in your life do you replace as often as you do a smartphone? You would be rather pissed if you were forced to replace HDTVs, laptops, desktops, music players, or tablets at that frequency, and yet society happily accepts a forced schedule of manufacturing greed that creates a considerable amount of e-waste with smartphones (recycling programs can only go so far).
To the parents point, 18 - 24 months IS "every year or so", which is now the standard replacement schedule and contract length.
Re:Electronic garbage by stealth_finger · 2017-11-13 22:02 · Score: 1

The rate at which companies are churning out phones should be generating a lot of e-waste. Shouldn't there be some effort to produce long lasting hardware? I hate to change a phone every year or so .
Yeah but there's not nearly as much money in that.

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Re:Electronic garbage by sysrammer · 2017-11-13 22:30 · Score: 1

But that's what we did do...when those devices came out. Now they are "appliances". When the smart phone is just another appliance, things will level out. The marketing concepts of "Smart" phones are what, 10 years old?
I guess another 5-10 years or so until smart phones level out, then another generation will come along and all the new cool kids will start implanting chips into themselves.

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His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
Re:Electronic garbage by iampiti · 2017-11-13 23:03 · Score: 1

You can continue to use them unless they break. My s4 lasted only 2 years before it stopped reading the SIM. My s2 before that lasted 3,5 years which is not half bad. But if the hardware lasted a bit more I could see myself using a smartphone for at least 5 years.
Re:Electronic garbage by Hal_Porter · 2017-11-13 23:49 · Score: 1

Smart phones have levelled out. For most people, including me a Galaxy S5 is just as good as an S8 because I don't really do anything performance intensive on it. Better in fact because of the removable battery. And the trend for future phones from both Apple and Android seems to be to up the price, not have a removable battery and even remove things like headphone jacks.
Yeah, a Snapdragon 835 in an S8 might get better benchmarks but it's not worth losing a removable battery over. Like I say only use the phone for a bunch of IM apps, Google Maps, a Chinese dictionary and the odd Google search.
Android phones get slower and run hotter with time but a factory reset every so often seems to cure that. In fact factory reset plus a fresh battery gives you a new phone. Which is a lot cheaper than spending $700+ on an S8.
I.e. once you get away from the attempts at built in obsolescence a three year old phone is fine. And will probably last longer than a new one.

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Re:Electronic garbage by TheRaven64 · 2017-11-14 00:03 · Score: 1

A literal gun, no. But if you actually want to use your phone for anything important then having regular security updates is important and their lack is a virtual gun pointed at your personal (and corporate) data. Most Android phones get less than three years of security updates. If you're lucky, you can then wipe it and install LineageOS to get them until the community gets bored with your device. If you have an iOS device, you probably get 5 years and then the locked bootloader means that it will never be able to run an OS without known vulnerabilities.

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Re:Electronic garbage by geekmux · 2017-11-14 01:26 · Score: 1

Unless we can modify the system, rampant consumerism is the only thing that will save many of us from destitution.
Rampant consumerism isn't the answer to continue to fuel rampant greed. Besides, it's kind of hard to be a consumer of pointless throw-away shit when you're unemployed. Sadly, those replacing jobs with automation don't see the proverbial gun aimed at their own foot.
Greed is also used to ensure private prisons have plenty of "consumers" too. A "rampant" mentality in that industry would land you behind bars for texting and driving.
Re:Electronic garbage by Wrath0fb0b · 2017-11-14 01:31 · Score: 1

The rate at which companies are churning out phones is roughly equal to the rate at which consumers voluntarily chose to exchange money for phones. Sure they pay for slick marketing campaigns, but that's just the point -- they have to convince the masses who, ultimately, have the last word.
That's the concurrently liberating-and-frustrating thing about living in a free world -- by decentralizing decision making we've also diffused responsibility. If we all cared deeply about e-waste, then we would collectively move towards replacing phones and laptops less frequently and buying larger and sturdier ones. Maybe we already have, in the sense that if tomorrow we removed the concern about e-waste, we'd buy a bunch more. Maybe we haven't, and that experiment wouldn't move the dial at all.
So if you think there should be 'some effort' here, it's on the part of those buying devices to consider the e-waste story in their purchases.
[ Note: There is a parallel philosophical debate about whether "what people want" is legitimately evidence of The Good or when/whether it should yield to more enlightened formulations. Both sides are fraught with difficulties, and we are surely not going to resolve them here on /.
There's also a debate about whether "what people want" is best described by what they say they want or what they demonstrate they want through actions, at least when those things contradict one another. That's another deep one unsuited for a technology story comment section. ]
Re:Electronic garbage by thegarbz · 2017-11-14 01:54 · Score: 1

which would also include your S4
Speak for yourself. Mine has received security updates this year, and according to the change log those were back-ported even to 4.4 Kitkat so you don't even have to have upgraded to Lollipop to be "supported".
Re:Electronic garbage by GuB-42 · 2017-11-14 02:03 · Score: 1

Most people don't change phone every year despite companies telling them they should.
See : https://danluu.com/android-upd...
This is an article telling how many outdated Android devices there are. Normally, this is a bad thing, and it is the take of the article. However, it shows that a lot of people don't buy into that planned obsolescence thing and that phones last much longer than a year or so. If you look at the end of the curve, you'll see that 30% of devices are at least 3 year outdated. Which mean they are probably at least 4 years old and still working.
For Apple, their marketing strategy is to treat the previous generation as it doesn't exist. They remove them from stores, from their websites, they only briefly mention them by telling how the new devices are better but even that is kept to a minimum. But that's a trick, the older devices still exist, and there is a thriving second hand market they want you to turn your attention away from.
Re:Electronic garbage by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-11-14 03:41 · Score: 1

If you have an iOS device, you probably get 5 years and then the locked bootloader means that it will never be able to run an OS without known vulnerabilities
And yet, when was the last time you heard of an actual, exploited iOS vulnerability? Five years ago? Seven? iOS only goes back Ten years; so...?
Re:Electronic garbage by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-11-14 03:48 · Score: 1

Can phones be made to be easily reduced to components and recycled? What if congress mandated standards? Republicans would shit money blood?
Well, for its part, Apple claims to have recycling down to a "science" for iPhones:
http://www.businessinsider.com...
Re:Electronic garbage by MouseR · 2017-11-14 03:58 · Score: 1

You dont have to. I used my 4s until I upgraded to a 6+ that I still use today.
Maybe next year. I'm not keen on upgrading for an issue of megapixels. Not a photograph. And I dont care for failing oled screens.
Re:Electronic garbage by TheRaven64 · 2017-11-14 04:18 · Score: 1

I don't think I can answer that question without violating an NDA.

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Re:Electronic garbage by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-11-14 07:31 · Score: 1

I don't think I can answer that question without violating an NDA.
Nice dodge.
And it's pretty clear that no one wants to target people with devices that are old enough to be unsupported on iOS; because they are usually the "poor" ones, anyway, LOL!
Same reason there probably aren't a whole lot of new exploits being written for Windows 2000 or XP these days.
Re:Electronic garbage by JudgeFurious · 2017-11-14 07:40 · Score: 1

That's why I don't. I make a point of trying to hold mine for two versions before I get a new one. Obviously an unforeseen "disaster" can interfere with that so I ended up going from an iPhone 6 to an iPhone 7 Plus when my phone found its way into the washing machine (My wife is convinced I did that on purpose. I did not) but I wasn't even thinking about upgrading until the iPhone 8 came out. Didn't see the "X" coming and kind of don't care about it. Hell I was happy with my 6 when it got killed. Just because they come out with new phones that doesn't mean we have to buy them.

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Re:Electronic garbage by Kohath · 2017-11-14 09:49 · Score: 1

The rate at which companies are churning out phones should be generating a lot of e-waste. Shouldn't there be some effort to produce long lasting hardware? I hate to change a phone every year or so .
What if you gave up the idea that "e-waste" is sinful? Then you could just enjoy your life and get a new phone when you want one, without unneeded mental/emotional hangups ruling your behavior.
Re:Electronic garbage by TheRaven64 · 2017-11-14 21:36 · Score: 1

And it's pretty clear that no one wants to target people with devices that are old enough to be unsupported on iOS; because they are usually the "poor" ones, anyway, LOL!
That's not how it works. Someone finds an exploit in iOS. Eventually someone else finds it and reports it (very often Google's Project Zero these days). The first people produce a tool to exploit it and sell it for a lot of money to somewhat unscrupulous people. Some of them then sell it for less money to other unscrupulous people. Eventually the tool is leaked and becomes public and any script kiddie can get hold of it. At this point, it's incorporated into exploit toolkits and lives there forever. If a script kiddie decides to attack an iOS device, then the tools that they have access to will have a load of exploits for vulnerabilities that are fixed in newer versions of iOS but still present in unsupported devices.
Oh, and you're assuming that the goal for exploiting the vulnerability is to steal money from the user. For mobile devices, it's more often used to gain entry to a corporate network. Lots of companies allow personal devices on the corporate network and only do perimeter security, so if you can compromise an old iPhone then you can use it to bypass the firewall and get in. For script kiddies, it's often just to cause some disruption. They may not be able to get anything out of the fact that they've used an iOS vulnerability to get into a random person's home network and either copy / release private data or just delete random stuff, but that doesn't make it any less disruptive.

Same reason there probably aren't a whole lot of new exploits being written for Windows 2000 or XP these days.
You'd be surprised - Win2K is still running on some high-value targets, especially industrial control systems, but new exploits aren't the only ones to worry about, just because a system is old doesn't mean that people delete the old exploits.

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Re:Electronic garbage by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-11-15 06:54 · Score: 1

Win2K is still running on some high-value targets, especially industrial control systems, but new exploits aren't the only ones to worry about, just because a system is old doesn't mean that people delete the old exploits.
Good points all!
I stand corrected. Thanks for the edjumications!!!
That's one of the reasons I never keep an address book nor store passwords for anything. That's what my personal User-Friendly Liveware is for!

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by invictusvoyd · 2017-11-13 19:41 · Score: 1

every 5 years or so ..

Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-13 20:05 · Score: 1

Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung,

There are only two hardware features I'm looking for in a phone:

1. No more than 4" tall HD screen (at least 1920x1080).
2. Removable 6000 mAh battery (hint: make the damn phone thicker).

The first one to make a phone with both features (* with the "latest version of the OS") gets my business.

Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by geekmux · 2017-11-13 22:01 · Score: 4, Insightful

Dear Consumer,
We no longer give a shit what features you want. You'll get what makes us the most money and like it.
Fuck you, and have a nice day.
Hugs and Kisses,
- Apple, Google, and Samsung
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by Freischutz · 2017-11-14 00:06 · Score: 1

Dear Consumer,
We no longer give a shit what features you want. You'll get what makes us the most money and like it.
Fuck you, and have a nice day.
Hugs and Kisses,
- Apple, Google, and Samsung
That's a bit of an exaggeration but I applaud you policy of hating Apple, Google and Samsung equally.
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by serviscope_minor · 2017-11-14 00:21 · Score: 2

And a related 3:
Please make the phone a little thicker, a little tougher and drop the edge to edge screen. I'd rather have a medium sized phone I can use as-is than a tiny thin phone I have to make huge with a fugly case because it's so fragile.

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Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by geekmux · 2017-11-14 02:00 · Score: 2

Dear Consumer,
We no longer give a shit what features you want. You'll get what makes us the most money and like it.
Fuck you, and have a nice day.
Hugs and Kisses,
- Apple, Google, and Samsung
That's a bit of an exaggeration but I applaud you policy of hating Apple, Google and Samsung equally.
A bit of an exaggeration? Not really. Try and remember a feature on a smartphone that consumers actually asked for.
A super-mega-retina-grade display on a 5" screen? Rather pointless, but let's add $100 onto the MSRP anyway.
Remove the headphone jack? Zero consumer demand for that, but how about wireless earbuds at 5x the cost. What a bargain!
Non-replaceable batteries? Yup, another revenue generating feature no one asked for, but let's make sure every device has this "upgrade".
All-glass design? Yes, please make my device FAR more breakable, and don't forget the back too (said no consumer ever.)
10MP cameras and 4K recording? Tack on another $100 to the MSRP.
Discounted phone price with contract? Yeah, no. We'll just give you a full MSRP 2-year loan instead. That way, it won't seem like we're ripping you off.
About the only damn thing that has come out lately that consumers actually needed was some level of water resistance. Of course, this benefit was pretty much voided with the all-glass design, since there's far more revenue to be made with dropping smartphones vs. dunking them.
Sadly, I stand by my "exaggeration".
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by Whatsmynickname · 2017-11-14 02:20 · Score: 1

That's a bit of an exaggeration
Who is asking for a phone with no headphone jack again? Nobody I know.
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by Freischutz · 2017-11-14 02:40 · Score: 1

That's a bit of an exaggeration
Who is asking for a phone with no headphone jack again? Nobody I know.
You sound very bitter there, but speak for your self, you must not have many friends. I know quite a few people who either use bluetooth headphones or are aware of the existence of adapters and therefore won't equate the demise of the headphone jack with he loss of a limb.
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by Freischutz · 2017-11-14 02:51 · Score: 3, Interesting

Dear Consumer,
We no longer give a shit what features you want. You'll get what makes us the most money and like it.
Fuck you, and have a nice day.
Hugs and Kisses,
- Apple, Google, and Samsung
That's a bit of an exaggeration but I applaud you policy of hating Apple, Google and Samsung equally.
A bit of an exaggeration? Not really. Try and remember a feature on a smartphone that consumers actually asked for.
A super-mega-retina-grade display on a 5" screen? Rather pointless, but let's add $100 onto the MSRP anyway.
Remove the headphone jack? Zero consumer demand for that, but how about wireless earbuds at 5x the cost. What a bargain!
Non-replaceable batteries? Yup, another revenue generating feature no one asked for, but let's make sure every device has this "upgrade".
All-glass design? Yes, please make my device FAR more breakable, and don't forget the back too (said no consumer ever.)
10MP cameras and 4K recording? Tack on another $100 to the MSRP.
Discounted phone price with contract? Yeah, no. We'll just give you a full MSRP 2-year loan instead. That way, it won't seem like we're ripping you off.
About the only damn thing that has come out lately that consumers actually needed was some level of water resistance. Of course, this benefit was pretty much voided with the all-glass design, since there's far more revenue to be made with dropping smartphones vs. dunking them.
Sadly, I stand by my "exaggeration".
I can't say I missed small displays, larger displays make browsing easier. As for asking to have the headphone jack removed, I did indeed not ask for that, but since I have been using bluetooth headphones for years I did not miss the jack when it went and I have found many uses for high resolution cameras. Also I have not tied myself to mobile subscription to get a cheap phone for over 15 years. I have had glass screen phones since they arrived on the market and so far a rubber edge buffer and a screen protection foil, or these days a product called PanzerGlass, has resulted in me not having broken a single mobile phone screen... ever. If you are dumb enough to buy an insanely expensive phone and then carrying it around with out a cheap rubber buffer and a screen protector it's your own damn fault when you drop your precious and the glass breaks.
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by Kohath · 2017-11-14 02:59 · Score: 1

What’s wrong with a bigger, better looking screen and longer battery life in roughly the same form factor? Which consumers didn’t want those things?
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by geekmux · 2017-11-14 05:32 · Score: 1

What’s wrong with a bigger, better looking screen and longer battery life in roughly the same form factor? Which consumers didn’t want those things?
Uh, that "same" form factor now costs you over three times what it used to. Think that's also what consumers wanted? Mediocre upgrades in exchange for an obscene price tag?
Sadly, people don't even remember the fact that new iPhones used to be heavily discounted at $199 when you signed up for a 2-year agreement.
Now you have a bend-over-and-take-it cost model where you pay the full MSRP for the hardware before you even think about service for it.
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by Kohath · 2017-11-14 05:50 · Score: 1

If you don’t want to pay for improvements, then don’t. Your price tag concerns don’t make screen sizes smaller or batteries drain faster.
Spoiler alert: the luxury high end phone model with all the newest improvements costs more than the regular model from 5 years ago. Also, water is wet. Perhaps you have a complaint about that too?
Re: Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by Kohath · 2017-11-14 05:56 · Score: 1

You can still use that Nokia phone if you want. The thing I call my “phone” is really a handheld computer. The 99% of the time I use it for non-phone functions are what drains the battery.
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-11-14 06:04 · Score: 1

Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung,
There are only two hardware features I'm looking for in a phone:
1. No more than 4" tall HD screen (at least 1920x1080).
2. Removable 6000 mAh battery (hint: make the damn phone thicker).
The first one to make a phone with both features (* with the "latest version of the OS") gets my business.
It's not so much a matter of "Thicker", but rather HEAVIER. You are talking about a battery that would be more than twice as heavy as the ones currently in the iPhone X, for example. You'd think that doesn't matter; but it does. When you hold the phone for any appreciable length of time, the extra grams start to quickly translate into hand-cramps and feelings of "I just want to put this thing DOWN!"
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-14 07:28 · Score: 1

Speak for yourself.
I wanted a retina display.
I wanted the headphone jack removed, I didn't use it and it was wasting space.
I have zero desire for the battery to be replaceable for the tradeoffs that represents.
10mp and 4k recording are a huge bonus, I uses these features constantly.
Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by chispito · 2017-11-14 07:45 · Score: 1

Sadly, people don't even remember the fact that new iPhones used to be heavily discounted at $199 when you signed up for a 2-year agreement.
That's not a discount, that's a payment plan. If you are paying the same monthly bill, you may need to shop around.

--
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Re:Dear Apple, Google, and Samsung by geekmux · 2017-11-14 19:54 · Score: 1

Sadly, people don't even remember the fact that new iPhones used to be heavily discounted at $199 when you signed up for a 2-year agreement.
That's not a discount, that's a payment plan. If you are paying the same monthly bill, you may need to shop around.
Wrong. It was an actual discount off the MSRP,, if you agreed to a 2-year contract for phone service. For some fucking reason, we've gotten completely away from any discounts in the last few releases of iPhones, and customers are NOW forced to pay the FULL MSRP on a (you guessed it) payment plan. Hell, cell providers are still charging the full $500+ MSRP to buy an iPhone 6S, a model that was released over 2 years ago.
And no, most people are not paying the same monthly bill when compared to five years ago. They're paying a hell of a lot more.

Bigger is not better by Anonymous Coward · 2017-11-13 20:08 · Score: 1

Why does the OP suggest that the price is too low for a bigger iPhone? It is cheaper to make a larger phone than a small one and a smaller phone is more desirable than a larger one...

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by The123king · 2017-11-13 20:38 · Score: 1

My iPhone 5 is still going strong. I have a 5S at home waiting to be formatted and put into service, but meh, the 5 still works.

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If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat

That's nice, I guess, how about some new desktops? by blindseer · 2017-11-13 20:38 · Score: 3, Interesting

It sure would be nice if we saw something new from Apple besides just cell phones. I know that they make them a lot of money. I also know that they have teams of people dedicated to the design of their desktop and laptop computers. Or they did at one time. What have they been doing? I'll be looking for a new computer soon and I'd like to see something from Apple that's not just a slight variation on what they had before.

I don't mean anything "big and bold" as a change, just put the high resolution screens on all their devices, wider adoption of ThunderBolt 3, just something newer. I'm not even sure what I want, just not the same thing for the last six years might help.

They got great phones. The tablets look good too. Even the iPods don't seem half bad. The laptops and desktops just don't seem all that great any more. That iMac Pro might be nice, if someone could actually buy one.

Time to catch up Apple. You should not have fallen behind in the first place.

--
I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.

iPhone SE by berj · 2017-11-13 21:16 · Score: 2

What I really want is continued updates of the SE line. I don't care much for the latest hardware in a phone. A yearly update to the SE line with the previous (or even two previous) year's SoC and specs would be fine by me.

I've got a 2 year old SE on iOS 11 right now and it's wonderful. The perfect phone for me. I had a 6 once upon a time but I didn't like the larger screen.

Hopefully they keep going with the 4" form factor.

Re:iPhone SE by nine-times · 2017-11-14 00:01 · Score: 4, Interesting

I agree. I still think that the iPhone SE is the "right size" for a cell phone. It also has a better design, from before Apple decided it needed round edges to everything or that camera bumps were acceptable. I wouldn't mind an updated design, maybe with less bezel and more screen, but I wish Apple would stop making their products worse.
Re:iPhone SE by berj · 2017-11-14 00:36 · Score: 1

I don't really have any complaints about any of the newer ( > 6) designs. It's all about the size of the screen for me. If I can't use it one handed then I'm not much interested. The rounded edges and camera bump don't bother me at all. The one complaint I had about the 6 I had was that the finish seemed slipperier than the 5s/SE finish. Not sure if that's the rounded corners or the choice in aluminum finish, though.
The move to glass backs doesn't bother me much either but I gather that the whole reason for it is for wireless charging which I also couldn't care less about. It would be interesting for them to experiment with some high end coatings on a plastic base for the back but I suspect that what you win in reduced shattering you lose in increased scratching.
Re:iPhone SE by nine-times · 2017-11-14 10:59 · Score: 1

If I can't use it one handed then I'm not much interested.
Yeah, I'm with you. To me, that is one of the big advantages to the SE. I can comfortably reach the entire screen, no problem. With the iPhone 6-8, I can reach a good portion of the screen comfortably and it's ok, but a bit annoying. The iPhone Plus models, forget about it. I need two hands to operate them.
And I'm not saying that the rounded edges and camera bump are a deal-breaker. I just think that, overall, Apple's design sensibility got worse between the iPhone 5 and 6. The increased size, camera bump, and rounded edges are all examples.
Re:iPhone SE by CanadianMacFan · 2017-11-14 14:41 · Score: 1

Just because my needs are for a small screen phone I don't want to be punished by having last years technology in my new phone. It's bad enough that they don't include all of the features in the SE so that it doesn't take sales from the larger phones. I just want a phone that I can use with one hand when I'm standing on the bus or walking home with groceries. I have my iPad if I want the larger screen to do a lot of reading. It's my media consumption device. The phone is for keeping me in touch when I'm out and for quickly looking up stuff.
Re:iPhone SE by berj · 2017-11-14 15:07 · Score: 1

Just because my needs are for a small screen phone I don't want to be punished by having last years technology in my new phone
Oh I don't disagree with you at all.
But sadly the phone market for flagship phones seems to have left the 4" form factor behind. So if it's a choice between getting the latest tech but no 4" screen or a slightly less functional phone with the 4" screen then I would choose the latter every day of the week.

Re:6.5 inch phone? by sheramil · 2017-11-13 21:33 · Score: 1

Ha, the Samsung Galaxy Tab A is MUCH bigger than that!

Re:"Full screen" LOL by antek9 · 2017-11-13 21:42 · Score: 1

Additionally, you'll have to subtract the thick black rim around the screen from the 'full screen experience'. Who do they think they are fooling?

--
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Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by geekmux · 2017-11-13 21:56 · Score: 1

My iPhone 5 is still going strong. I have a 5S at home waiting to be formatted and put into service, but meh, the 5 still works.

When it comes to highly networked electronic devices, "strong" is not merely defined by functionality. It is also defined by support. I believe the iPhone 5 is a 32-bit platform, and support stopped at iOS 10.

My guess by Mr_Silver · 2017-11-13 22:25 · Score: 1

On the other hand, next year they could release the same designs as they have this year, but with small incremental improvements to some of the components. They could release a new version of the operating system too.

Oh! Maybe they could prefix these with a letter to show that they are slightly different. How about a "S"? So we'd have the iPhone 8S, iPhone 8S+ and the iPhone XS.

Blogs and websites that live and breath phones would complain about the minimal differences between the 8 and 8S and the X and XS - however the majority of people who don't feel compelled to upgrade their phone every year will find the jump from the 7 (or earlier) a nice upgrade.

I know, I know, crazy talk.

--
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Re:My guess by Known+Nutter · 2017-11-14 03:37 · Score: 1

iPhone XS.
Let's see if marketing can do something with that! The iPhone Excess.

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Beware of the Leopard.

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by The123king · 2017-11-13 22:36 · Score: 3, Insightful

Big banks still primarily use DOS software. I'm sure support for DOS was phased out over 20 years ago. If the main financial institutions still trust a 20 year old operating system, i don't think my slightly out-of-date iPhone is really that much of a problem.

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If you gave me a choice between a printer and a giraffe with explosive diarrhoea, i'll get my ladder and my raincoat

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by LinuxIsGarbage · 2017-11-13 22:59 · Score: 1

Big banks still primarily use DOS software. I'm sure support for DOS was phased out over 20 years ago. If the main financial institutions still trust a 20 year old operating system, i don't think my slightly out-of-date iPhone is really that much of a problem.

Are they actually using 16 bit "DOS", or are they using a "green screen terminal environment", such as:
-IBM AS/400, System/390, System z
-DEC / Compaq / HP "OpenVMS" running on Alpha / VAX hardware (Open VMS is still actively developed and supported)

The cutting edge of consumer products by MrKaos · 2017-11-13 23:05 · Score: 2

Bleeds you of cash to get it and then you need a new one.

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My ism, it's full of beliefs.

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by TheRaven64 · 2017-11-14 00:00 · Score: 1

I very much doubt that they do. Certainly none of the ones that I've worked with do, and if you can name one that does then I'll be very happy to avoid them like the plague. They sometimes have quite baroque back ends (I know of one financial services company that uses Smalltalk for their core back-end infrastructure and wraps it in Java for the middle layer, for example). I know some that use FreeBSD, quite a few that use VMS and more that use System/z. All of these are still supported and you'd find it hard to pass an audit if you didn't have a support story for your OS (even if it's 'we have the source code and an in-house support team' as was the case at one bank that's just finished the upgrade to FreeBSD 6).

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I am TheRaven on Soylent News

Re:That's nice, I guess, how about some new deskto by TheRaven64 · 2017-11-14 00:10 · Score: 1

I'd be happy if they could pressure Intel into sticking an LPDDR4 controller on their existing cores if (as rumoured) the ones that were scheduled to have LPDDR4 controllers are delayed by another year. My work laptop is a late 2013 MBP and our budget assumes upgrades every three years. There's money in the budget for me to get a new one, but the main performance limit for me is RAM, so I'm not upgrading until I can get 32GB (and, no, a machine that uses 32GB DDR4 at 11-12W instead of LPDDR3 at 1-2W is not an acceptable alternative, unless it has hot-swap RAM support and can move between LPDDR3 and DDR4 based on whether it's on battery or mains).

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I am TheRaven on Soylent News

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by geekmux · 2017-11-14 01:10 · Score: 1

Big banks still primarily use DOS software. I'm sure support for DOS was phased out over 20 years ago. If the main financial institutions still trust a 20 year old operating system, i don't think my slightly out-of-date iPhone is really that much of a problem.

A large bank must adhere to a lot of regulation to simply operate. If it has proven that it can properly mitigate risk by running DOS or some other antiquated system, then they've likely got the controls in place to prevent a data breach.

It's rather pointless to even try and compare that to the average citizen who doesn't give a fuck about security or privacy, and couldn't define risk mitigation if their life depended on it.

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by parkinglot777 · 2017-11-14 01:25 · Score: 1

My iPhone 5 is still going strong. I have a 5S at home waiting to be formatted and put into service, but meh, the 5 still works.

When it comes to highly networked electronic devices, "strong" is not merely defined by functionality. It is also defined by support. I believe the iPhone 5 is a 32-bit platform, and support stopped at iOS 10.

But 5s has A7 chip which can run 64-bit, so he shouldn't have a problem because he has one.

Re:That's nice, I guess, how about some new deskto by DNS-and-BIND · 2017-11-14 01:42 · Score: 1

Designing desktops doesn't look good on a designer's resume. Designing phones and tablets does. Thus there is no incentive to do good desktops, because they are regarded as passe.

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Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by dj245 · 2017-11-14 01:55 · Score: 1

My iPhone 5 is still going strong. I have a 5S at home waiting to be formatted and put into service, but meh, the 5 still works.

I bought a 5s myself just a couple months ago. It's all the phone I really need.

Smartphones are following the same path as PCs in the 90's. Back then you needed to spend $1000+ (~$1600 in today's money) to get a usable machine, and it was obsolete in 2-3 years. As smartphones mature further (perhaps we are already or nearly there), we will get to point where we are at with laptops and desktops now- the machine is fine for 5 years or more.

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Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.

I have a co-worker that by Draeven · 2017-11-14 02:24 · Score: 1

wants to upgrade to the Iphone X. He's using an Iphone 7 right now, and has had it for less than a year.

His reasoning? He believes that Apple intentionally causes older phones to run slower when new phones are released. I asked him why he doesn't switch away from Apple products then if he believes they're using such business tactics, and his response is that he didn't want to have to repurchase his library of movies and music he has on Itunes.

This is your average consumer.

Re:That's nice, I guess, how about some new deskto by Kohath · 2017-11-14 03:07 · Score: 1

The AirPods wireless earbuds are new and they’re really good.
They announced a new Mac Pro desktop that looks like an improvement.

Maybe they’ll lhave wireless charging on MacBooks next year.
And people think Apple is behind the new Intel chip with integrated AMD graphics. That should be a genuine improvement.

Re:"Full screen" LOL by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-11-14 04:09 · Score: 1

https://pspdfkit.com/blog/2017/supporting-iphone-x/

I can't even begin to describe how utterly retarded the iPhone X is screen wise. It is just about the most useless "innovation" I've ever seen (but I'm sure it took them a lot of courage to come up with that shit). Unless you're willing to write your GUI to target four separate screen layouts (because the notch changes orientation as you flip the device around), you're basically stuck shifting your widgets out of the way so that the wonky screen shape doesn't mess up your application UI.

Furthermore, you can't get rid of the status widgets at the top of the screen and the "home button" line at the bottom, which are displayed by the system over top of your GUI. Again, this means that you need to push stuff out of the way so things don't collide. iOS 11 even has an API for telling you what the "safe areas" of the screen are when displaying content, which pretty much turn the iPhone X into a rectangular display by telling your code to avoid the rounded edges and notch.

All this basically means that there are no "full screen" applications. Yeah, applications can color the unusable areas of the screen with whatever color scheme the rest of your app uses, but that space isn't actually usable for anything useful. It's literally just wasted space and pixels, because computers have never been designed to handle non-rectangular screens and never will be.

But whatever, I'm glad they found a way to make their special snowflake devices even more special and unique. Someone should strap a few magnets to Jobs and position a large coil of wire over his grave. It'd be a clean renewable source of energy, and I'm sure the power output will only continue to rise as Apple comes up with new and innovative ways to fuck up mobile computing (and/or computing in general).

1. No one forced you to create iOS apps. The App Store will get along just fine without your creations.

2. At least Apple provided you with an API that can assist the iOS Dev. to plan their screen layout to stay within a device's "safe" areas. Or would you prefer to maintain a list of those areas in your application, and update it everytime (a) new iPhone model(s) come out?

3. You are right that NO OS really wants to do bit/blt-ing to a non-rectangular screen area. So why are you whining? Everyone wants their mobile devices to have rounded corners for ergonomic and aesthetic reasons. And every manufacturer wants to fill those areas with lit-up pixels, even if they can't be filled with a Developer's content. And really, tell me what you would stick in that miniscule corner-radius that you are oh, so put-upon by not being able to draw into?

4. You're that lazy-ass Developer that makes horrible little Apps that obnoxiously won't obey the Device Orientation, aren't you?

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by Hal_Porter · 2017-11-14 04:58 · Score: 1

I guess you could say it had a 1MB or 20 bit address space or 1MB. In real mode a far pointer has a 16 bit segment and a 16 bit offset. However real mode segment addressing rules say you shift the segment 4 bits left and add the offset.

Of course MSDOS on an IBM compatible machine before the 386 was limited to 640K because IBM decided to reserve the top 384K for IO devices.

Then the 386 was introduced and there were various ways for DOS applications to get access to expanded memory (paged in below 1MB), extended memory (above 1MB). And it had UMBs - memory above 1MB was paged into unused spaces in the 384K IBM reserved for IO. The UMBs and expanded memory were all made possible by the 386's on chip MMU.

So how big was the address space? I'd say 20 bit with the 8086, growing to 24 bit with the 286 and 32 bit with the 386.

The odd thing is that DOS didn't really die because it run out of address space. It died because Win32 have programs a nice flat 32 bit address space and also a standardised way to talk to hardware. In the DOS days you had to drive hardware directly. With Windows you could use an DirectX or OpenGL to talk to a driver which knew how to do hardware acceleration. Also Windows let you run all the code in flat 32 bit mode, whereas in Dos you'd need to Dos extender to do magic behind the scenes to switch back to real mode or something like it when you called Dos. Still games like Doom run like that with an Dos extender initially before they moved to Win32. Then again Doom probably didn't make many API calls once it had loaded level data and was rendering frames.

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echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;

Re:"Full screen" LOL by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-11-14 05:44 · Score: 1

Additionally, you'll have to subtract the thick black rim around the screen from the 'full screen experience'. Who do they think they are fooling?

The real question is: Why do you think they are TRYING to "fool" ANYBODY?

Heck, their official position on these attributes is "own them". Watch their TV ads. They make a BIG deal out of showing the "Notch", and don't do any stupid, useless tricks like Samsung does with their "wraparound" screen (talk about useless screen area!)

Obligitory counter-prediction by zarmanto · 2017-11-14 05:48 · Score: 1

Apple has already succeeded in proving that people are willing to pay a premium for their phones. As such, higher prices across the board are a reasonable expectation -- but I don't expect Apple to push them quite as high on their "low end" model as The Verge is speculating. Rather, I think that the LCD model is going to be initially positioned as a direct replacement for the iPhone 8 Plus, and thus, will be priced accordingly: $799.

Further, I think it will be a short-lived product, with maybe one or two years before being discontinued entirely in favor of OLED models... and I think Apple has already made obvious plans towards that end, because they've left an opening for it's name: It'll be called the iPhone 9.

Additionally, just as has often been the case in the past, any "lower-end" phones below that price bracket will be served by older models, or derivative products based upon those older production lines; thus, the iPhone 8 and the iPhone SE will both still have a place in next year's lineup.

And according to the formula, this is where I put the obligatory, "You heard it here first, folks!" declaration... right?

Re:That's nice, I guess, how about some new deskto by geekmux · 2017-11-14 05:56 · Score: 1

Designing desktops doesn't look good on a designer's resume. Designing phones and tablets does.

If a former Apple designer is struggling to justify their resume, they're doing it wrong.

Thus there is no incentive to do good desktops, because they are regarded as passe.

Desktops are about as passe as 400HP V8 engines in Detroit, and for similar reasons. When users need real performance, a fucking tablet ain't gonna cut it. And Corporate America still uses the shit out of them.

Two full screen phones? by LynnwoodRooster · 2017-11-14 06:06 · Score: 1

They haven't yet released one full-screen phone. Unless you are cool calling a full screen one that has a big rectangular chunk pulled out of the top...

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Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!

Re:Electronic garbage - correction by Just+Some+Guy · 2017-11-14 08:54 · Score: 1

Most banking systems don't live on the open Internet.

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Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?

Courage by Tough+Love · 2017-11-14 12:45 · Score: 1

It will take a lot of courage to keep the notch.

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When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.

Re:Courage by Dr.Who · 2017-11-14 19:50 · Score: 1

And even more courage to release a new phone with a headphone / microphone jack.
I have an iPhone 5 that had the battery replaced under warranty a year ago. When I took it out of the OtterBox Defender case at the Apple store, it was pristine except for some rub-marks from dust that worked in between the case and the phone.
The iPhone 5 meets my needs for now. If it were to fail, I would NOT purchase a phone that had no headphone / microphone jack. That does not leave many options in the iPhone lineup.

Re:"Full screen" LOL by antek9 · 2017-11-17 04:25 · Score: 1

You might only be the fake Tim Cook, but you shouldn't do his dirty work, anyway. They do indeed show the ugly notch like they are proud of it, but they don't show and instead talk down the black rim. Useless screen area, you say? Like the iPhone X has plenty of? The X has less usable screen real estate than the iPhone 8+, don't forget that. Developers can't use the topmost and downmost sections, and those rounded corners are giving everyone headaches, but go on and keep talking out of your ass... ;-)

--
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.

Re:"Full screen" LOL by TheFakeTimCook · 2017-11-18 05:07 · Score: 1

You might only be the fake Tim Cook, but you shouldn't do his dirty work, anyway. They do indeed show the ugly notch like they are proud of it, but they don't show and instead talk down the black rim. Useless screen area, you say? Like the iPhone X has plenty of? The X has less usable screen real estate than the iPhone 8+, don't forget that. Developers can't use the topmost and downmost sections, and those rounded corners are giving everyone headaches, but go on and keep talking out of your ass... ;-)

I am not an iOS App developer; so I don't have to worry about "forgetting" that. IOS Devs. Do.

And besides, From what I have heard, there is an iOS API call that returns the usable RECTANGULAR screen area for Apps, that takes into account the notch and corner radii for the iPhone X, and the onscreen Home button if the user so chooses to display same.

So what are you whining about? Would you rather have to maintain those Viewport dimensions in each and every App?

To me, this kind of bitching about Apple designing a product with a different screen aspect ratio and/or different screen dimensions, simply Seems like nothing more than some iOS Devs. Are getting pretty spoiled.

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Apple Could Launch Two New Full-Screen iPhones Next Year (theverge.com)

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