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All 500 of the World's Top 500 Supercomputers Are Running Linux (zdnet.com)

Freshly Exhumed shares a report from ZDnet: Linux rules supercomputing. This day has been coming since 1998, when Linux first appeared on the TOP500 Supercomputer list. Today, it finally happened: All 500 of the world's fastest supercomputers are running Linux. The last two non-Linux systems, a pair of Chinese IBM POWER computers running AIX, dropped off the November 2017 TOP500 Supercomputer list. When the first TOP500 supercomputer list was compiled in June 1993, Linux was barely more than a toy. It hadn't even adopted Tux as its mascot yet. It didn't take long for Linux to start its march on supercomputing.

From when it first appeared on the TOP500 in 1998, Linux was on its way to the top. Before Linux took the lead, Unix was supercomputing's top operating system. Since 2003, the TOP500 was on its way to Linux domination. By 2004, Linux had taken the lead for good. This happened for two reasons: First, since most of the world's top supercomputers are research machines built for specialized tasks, each machine is a standalone project with unique characteristics and optimization requirements. To save costs, no one wants to develop a custom operating system for each of these systems. With Linux, however, research teams can easily modify and optimize Linux's open-source code to their one-off designs.
The semiannual TOP500 Supercomputer List was released yesterday. It also shows that China now claims 202 systems within the TOP500, while the United States claims 143 systems.

169 of 288 comments (clear)

  1. This is the year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Linux makes it to the desktop, of a supercomputer.

    1. Re:This is the year by MouseR · · Score: 1

      Chevy Gen2 Volt's infotainment runs GMLinux. Saw it on the core dump of a crash of another driver's car.

    2. Re:This is the year by DCFusor · · Score: 1

      My 2012 Volt runs linux too. Around the time I bought it, GM was publishing the code for a version of bash they'd done the tighten it up on.

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    3. Re: This is the year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In this case, would that mean a crash dump is what ends up in your pants if you run off the road?

    4. Re:This is the year by stooo · · Score: 1

      This is the year Linux makes it to the desktop, of all supercomputers.

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      aaaaaaa
    5. Re: This is the year by stooo · · Score: 1

      is there Linux in this shit ?

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      aaaaaaa
    6. Re:This is the year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There is a logical reason for this, and it has nothing to do with Linux.

      The Supercomputers level of OSS use is primarily a concern with science. It compiles on multiple platforms, and is well maintained on most of them. Windows and MacOS are only available for the x86-64, ARM, and PPC platforms, and even then, not all of them. That only leaves FreeBSD as an option, and FreeBSD isn't as virtualization friendly, and drivers aren't readily available for GPU systems.

      So it's quite literately the only logical choice, owing to that the other choices would have required engineering resources.

      That said, Linux does not belong in safety systems, and I hope it never ends up in car automotive systems, power plants, or spacecraft. Everything else is fair game. These systems need real time operating systems that are highly threaded and can respond to events instantly, not be scheduled, or deferred due to eating all the swap space (one of Linux's worst default features, and what makes it woefully awful for web servers by default.)

    7. Re:This is the year by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...it's quite literately the only logical choice

      Oh I know, right? But the big fact you danced around is, Linux is just better than the others. It's faster and more reliable. Otherwise top 500 would not use it. Like, they tried to use Windows, they really did. Microsoft was paying academic institutions to install it and providing teams of free engineers. Still didn't do it. Why? Windows can't handle the load, it can't run continuously under load. It just gets more and more unstable then it falls over. Even when it does stay up, it can't touch the storage, scheduling or memory management efficiency of Linux.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    8. Re:This is the year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      He didn't mention Windows. And speed is exactly what he was saying Linux isn't the best at. He's referring to varieties of parallel UNIX.

    9. Re:This is the year by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      > The Supercomputers level of OSS use is primarily a concern with science. It compiles on multiple platforms, and is well maintained on most of them. Windows and MacOS are only available for the x86-64, ARM, and PPC platforms, and even then, not all of them.

      This makes no sense. Almost all supercomputers are x86-64 based (+/- GPUs).

      > That only leaves FreeBSD as an option, and FreeBSD isn't as virtualization friendly, and drivers aren't readily available for GPU systems.

      Lol. Supercomputers don't use virtualization.

      > So it's quite literately the only logical choice, owing to that the other choices would have required engineering resources.

      That's not true, supercomputers within the past 5 years on the top500 list have used Windows, AIX, BSD, Linux. It's just that Linux is better for the job than the others.

      > That said, Linux does not belong in safety systems, and I hope it never ends up in car automotive systems, power plants, or spacecraft.

      I hope nobody who thinks supercomputers use virtualization ever have their opinion on a computing matter taken by the designer of a safety critical system.

      Linux is in safety critical systems already. But it depends on the level and capabilities you're talking about. Processing doppler radar data and sending it to ATC systems in a timely manner is one thing. Running tight control loops in automotive engine and control systems is completely different and just isn't appropriate for Linux.

      > Everything else is fair game. These systems need real time operating systems that are highly threaded and can respond to events instantly, not be scheduled, or deferred due to eating all the swap space (one of Linux's worst default features, and what makes it woefully awful for web servers by default.)

      You're mixing up all sorts of things here. Nothing responds to interrupts "instantly", what you want is guaranteed hard upper limits. It doesn't even have to be all that fast often times, it just has to be an upper limit so you can design the system to meet response time requirements. Linux can respond "immediately" to interrupts, by the way. It does not have to be "scheduled". Work can be done in interrupt context.

      "Highly threaded" what? That's nothing to do with real time.

      "Deferred due to eating all swap space" What is this meaningless drivel? Automotive and aircraft control systems don't use swap space. They don't even use virtual memory for god's sake lol.

      > (one of Linux's worst default features, and what makes it woefully awful for web servers by default.)

      Apparently better than all the others at that too. Windows, OSX, and BSD must *really* be shit if Linux is so bad yet it still beat them all there too.

    10. Re:This is the year by PeeAitchPee · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The other big logical reason is licensing. No one is ever going to pay for the required Windows or MacOS server licenses for installations of this size when there is free (as in beer) software available. They'd rather put that money into other parts of the project (more cores etc.) to eek out even more performance.

    11. Re:This is the year by The+Cynical+Critic · · Score: 5, Interesting

      That said, Linux does not belong in safety systems

      Dedicated real time operating systems obviously have their uses, but due to advances in embedded level hardware they're becoming less and less relevant. Even with the overheads of an "almost real time" OS like Linux with some compile switches most modern day embedded hardware is capable of making the dealines in all except some special super low latency use cases. Only place where a real time OS is even necessary these days are rare super low latency and super low power cases (as in under 0.25W).

      Serious, 6502s and Z80s are no longer the standard embedded hardware out there anymore.

      --
      "Why should I want to make anything up? Life's bad enough as it is without wanting to invent any more of it."
    12. Re:This is the year by Xyrus · · Score: 1, Informative

      It has nothing to do with not being able to handle the load. It has everything to do with costs. Linux is free. Windows isn't. Most of the tools for supercomputing were written for the linux platform. There are tools for windows but since it's a niche market there aren't nearly as many. And since in the super-computing world having a good desktop/GUI environment doesn't mean squat there is no real incentive to use windows outside of certain circumstances.

      In all the time I used it I never encountered any serious problems other than the lack of tools and tracking down a couple numerical inconsistencies (issues with compiler differences). It ran fine. It handled loads fine. There's nothing wrong with it's MPI performance, nor any performance issues with it's infiniband stack. If you have a windows admin they can basically hop right on it with little difficulty, and if you're a windows shop then tying it together with AD and such is pretty simple. If you're going full windows, then it might make sense to consider it but there are very few organizations where that's the case.

      But there's no getting around the costs.

      --
      ~X~
    13. Re:This is the year by Junta · · Score: 2

      You are right it's not about ability to take on load (though there is a matter of how self-reliant shops can be when trying to analyze failures, which is unlimited with Linux and inherently limited in Windows). However:

      the lack of tools and tracking down a couple numerical inconsistencies

      Those are pretty huge things. It all stems from the origin of supercomputing as a Unix thing, and as such similarity to Unix allowed seamless porting. Windows however is very different and requires more work to port all of the technical computing ecosystem that no one wants to do (except for a brief period Microsoft themselves, before they figured out just how *much* work they would need to do, how uphill a battle it was philosophically, and how utterly thankless a market win it would be even if they pulled it off).

      One could say if the situation were reversed, *maybe* the technical challenges would have been worth solving to get some cost savings, but even if Windows were 100% free, it still wouldn't make inroads into Top500 class systems, because it's a lot of work with no upside to be on Windows.

      It's the opposite challenge as Linux on the desktop. Linux on the desktop is perfectly capable and usable now, but there's so much stuff that is Windows only and not enough upside to address all that. We have an entrenched market in both cases and as such you either have to act*exactly* like what you are trying to replace or have to have something *really* worthwhile to convince the market to move.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    14. Re:This is the year by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It has nothing to do with not being able to handle the load. It has everything to do with costs. Linux is free. Windows isn't.

      If I get you right, You spend all this money on a Supercomputer, so you logically use the cheapest OS out there instead of paid ones that should work better?

      Sounds legit.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    15. Re:This is the year by barbariccow · · Score: 1

      I've used supercomputers that do virtualization. You request a number of CPUs and memory and provide a container or an iso or something and it spits you off a host. It's a pretty sane way to support and delegate 1000s of things that wanna run on it at all times.

    16. Re:This is the year by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You spend lots of money on a supercomputer, therefore you wants the best os for it. In this case, the cheapest os is also the best. No need to pay (a small amount) extra for mediocrity.

      Exactly

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    17. Re:This is the year by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Most of the tools for supercomputing were written for the linux platform.

      I see reading comprehension isn't your strong point.

      And responding to the person who actually wrote that isn't yours.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    18. Re:This is the year by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Actually, it is. The OS, particularly in the unix universe, matters far less than the applications running on it. You think Android uses the Linux kernel because it's "the best?" That's cute.

      I think it works, and is consistent.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    19. Re:This is the year by filesiteguy · · Score: 1

      I thought it was QNX. Would love to have OSS in my car. (I have a Volt based Malibu hybrid.)

    20. Re:This is the year by tbird20d · · Score: 1

      That said, Linux does not belong in safety systems, and I hope it never ends up in ... spacecraft.

      Too late. Linux is already the Falcon 9 spacecraft.

    21. Re:This is the year by Trogre · · Score: 1

      Funny, I don't recall my SLES support contracts being free.

      --
      "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
    22. Re:This is the year by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      ...it's quite literately the only logical choice

      Oh I know, right? But the big fact you danced around is, Linux is just better than the others. It's faster and more reliable. Otherwise top 500 would not use it. Like, they tried to use Windows, they really did. Microsoft was paying academic institutions to install it and providing teams of free engineers. Still didn't do it. Why? Windows can't handle the load, it can't run continuously under load. It just gets more and more unstable then it falls over. Even when it does stay up, it can't touch the storage, scheduling or memory management efficiency of Linux.

      Microsoft now offers Linux for servers, so I am told. Many of their cloud platforms run on Linux

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
    23. Re:This is the year by cthulhu11 · · Score: 1

      The skewing factor here is that arguably clusters of individual systems really aren't supercomputers, the same way that a string of salps isn't a single animal. With traditional vector / SIMD systems (Cray, Convex) mostly a thing of the past, the term "supercomputer" should be as well, just as we stopped using "minicomputer" when they were no longer part of the equation.

    24. Re:This is the year by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Microsoft now offers Linux for servers, so I am told. Many of their cloud platforms run on Linux

      "If you can't beat them, join them." It's sound business practice, but it does not mean Microsoft's dirty tricks culture is over. The real watershed moment will arrive when they start contributing to interoperability with Libreoffice and Samba because, you know, it makes good business sense to play well with others.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    25. Re:This is the year by minstrelmike · · Score: 1

      You mean you have daemons in your car? Way kewl.

    26. Re:This is the year by JohnStock · · Score: 1

      No you use one you can personally customise specifically for supercomputer applications which Windows was not designed for. Are Linux fanbois that desperate to impress these days?

    27. Re:This is the year by jon3k · · Score: 1

      Windows isn't.

      It's damn sure free if you're running it on one of the Top 500 supercomputers in the world, I guarantee it.

    28. Re:This is the year by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      No you use one you can personally customise specifically for supercomputer applications which Windows was not designed for. Are Linux fanbois that desperate to impress these days?

      You'd have to ask one, I don't know how desperate they are. I have zero fucks to give about who runs what OS on what.

      I just make note that considering the cost of a supercomputer, it makes sense to use an operating system that you consider a good operating system, regardless of the cost. Cost of the OS is way down in the noise in that arena. I use MacOS, UNIX, Linux, and Windows. Whichever works best for what I'm doing.

      Your projection of me as a "fanboi" is about as close to a straw man when as you can get. I have my favorite(s), but that is not relevent to this conversation. So chillaxe, have a nice adult beverage, and don't assume what other people are or are not.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  2. Re:'This happened for two reasons.' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There is no second reason.

    Linux is not used because it's better, it's used because it is cheaper.

    In the end, cheaper almost always wins over better.

  3. Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Unix never made inroads on the desktop.
     
      This might actually be harmful if people think Linux is complicated or designed for heavy hardware they may not consider it for desktops and use cases involving desktop apps.
     
      Linux has been ready for the desktop since about 1999, before that there were dependency issues and hardware wasn't always supported. Now hardware is more likely to be better supported on Linux than on Windows. I'm writing this on Windows but that's only because Windows came on this machine, I'll be installing Linux when I have a week of downtime.
     
      Enlightenment is probably the best looking desktop software anywhere, it's customizability makes it hard to include with distros but it should be considered as evidence that it's not user-friendliness or beauty holding Linux back.
     
      I think it's a bit sad to see Linux software becoming overly simplified in the wake of Apple's success the way other software is.
     
      Linux needs to remain the enthusiast and expert operating system more than it needs broad acceptance. Look what happened with the internet, Linux is great without ads, malware and other problems I associate with popularity.
     
      That said Linux skills are still hugely undervalued and not taught in schools which needs to change. A Linux machine is still your best bet that your machine will still be runnning with data and apps updated but not broken after 10-15 years.

    1. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by c · · Score: 1

      Linux has been ready for the desktop since about 1999...

      Eh, no, not really. You're talking about a KDE 1.0, pre-Gnome desktop... I used it, but I wouldn't have inflicted it on anyone I needed to support. Five years later it was certainly reasonable, at least where the average non-technical user was concerned.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    2. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What happens when you click on the apple in the corner of a 1995 MacOS system?

      i did that and it made me gay

    3. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Clearly you confused Linux with OSX

    4. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

      Eh, no, not really. You're talking about a KDE 1.0, pre-Gnome desktop... I used it, but I wouldn't have inflicted it on anyone I needed to support. Five years later it was certainly reasonable, at least where the average non-technical user was concerned.

      KDE was '96, GNOME '97.. in 1999 you'd already have KDE 2.0, didn't use that but I remember trying RHL 6.2 that came out in April 2000 which looks pretty much like a normal desktop to me. Remember that it was going head to head with Windows ME as the consumer desktop, using either was a major PITA. Granted, XP was a big step up but then you had Vista... you can make a lot of excuses for YotLD not happening but that Microsoft brought their A-game is not one of them.

      The cornerstone for Microsoft's dominance is Office and Excel in particular, all those people who had to use Windows at work of course took what little knowledge and training they had and bought a Windows machine for home too. When Outlook kicked Lotus Notes to the curb they locked that market up good.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by argumentsockpuppet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On a scale of LFS to Mandrake, how bad was your experience?

      I'll be installing Linux when I have a week of downtime.

      It takes me a couple months to transition a new workstation to Windows. Each time, I try to learn what the native software options are and whether they can meet my current needs. Where it doesn't, I install or use recommended software in most cases to see if it does what I need (WSL) though I do have exceptions for my personal favorite software in a few instances where I'm just unwilling to learn something new. (EditPlus, GIMP, VLC, Sysinternals, Putty.)

      A new install of Linux takes the same process, but it has apt or yum or whatever which speeds things up pretty dramatically. With a new Linux desktop install, I just rarely have to learn too many new things... usually. (Eyeballing you hard here systemd!)

      If I have to support any significant sized network, and if it's possible, I'd do Linux desktops everywhere. I'd rather use those admin systems than admin Windows... but I work in a job where I have to support Windows because that's all the core software runs on. As an admin, I can do about anything I need to on Microsoft servers and workstations. It'd be false modesty to say I'm not good at admin on Microsoft system. On the other hand, I have used Linux and various BSDs at home and work (on servers) since the late 90's. I could eliminate Microsoft in our workplace and cut our IT departmental work by maybe 30% if only our primary system ran on Linux. I'd miss some of the AD/DHCP/DNS/DFS stack. I'd miss Excel (running native) and Exchange/Outlook, but honestly, running the alternatives in the cloud or Libre would probably reduce our helpdesk workload after a year or two.

      I'm good at my jobs, and whatever systems I admin, I'll learn to be good at. Given the ideal scenario, I could run several thousand workstations with the same effort I'd use for a couple hundred Windows workstations. The scenarios I have been hired to handle haven't been ideal, so I've learned to take advantage of the environments I'm in. I'm good at my jobs because I like to learn. I like tinkering, trying new things, scripting and writing real code. That makes me useful, maybe even it helps toward making me valuable.

      On the other hand, my varied experiences and experimenting have made me aware that my own weakness is a desire to try new things. If I were designing the systems for a company responsible for my income, it wouldn't be Linux or Windows or Mac. It'd be PC-BSD on the workstations and AIX on the servers. They're boring. Boring is what I look for in a business network. Ideally, the network will be so stable that IT doesn't spend any time working on the backend systems, and that means boring is the goal. I like Linux because I'm always learning new stuff and I like Windows.. sorta, because I'm always being forced to learn new things. That's why I'm sorry to see AIX take a dip off the top 500, but I can see it; Linux is fun.

    6. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      I've sort of made my peace with the fact that desktop Linux will always be a niche player for enthusiasts and experts, plus a tiny percentage of normal people who have experts to admin their systems. There are a lot of reasons for this, but I think that an OS which is still a CLI focused system at its heart has some disadvantages as a desktop solution for the masses.

      On the other hand, I think Linux is really in its element with specialized environments like supercomputing. You can hack everything to make the OS work exactly as you need for the hardware you use, and strip out everything that's superfluous. There are lots of great open source tools to take advantage of. There are advantages in drawing from the wide range of scientific talent who are already familiar with using and programming for Linux. And of course, you don't have per-core or per-processor licensing fees for your OS, which is a nice bonus.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    7. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by PixetaledPikachu · · Score: 4, Informative

      Linux still isn't ready for any desktop it isn't installed on. It IS installed on lots of desktops in places like research labs, mine included. But if it's going to make it to anybody else's desk it needs some basic things fixed. I don't know if it's possible to do something as simple as configure a graphics driver in Ubuntu's GUI, but it's certainly not easy.

      Everything else works perfectly fine, but none of the GUI systems seem to offer a user friendly way for command line averse users to fiddle with their system settings.

      Both AMD and Nvidia have their config UI packaged to their binary blob driver on linux.

    8. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How the hell would you know? Ever tried a new software before? Everything has a learning curve. OS change is much more complicated, because you need to replace programs and actions you already know.

      Try switching to OSX (or Windows, if you already are using OSX primarily), it's different and i bet it'll take you more than a week to get used to it and find alternative programs

      You are nothing but a Windows' (or OSX's) bitch and your comment could have not been more idiotic.

    9. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by stooo · · Score: 4, Funny

      >> "I'll be installing Linux when I have a week of downtime."
      If you need a week of downtime from MS to convince you to switch to Linux, you should rather stay with MS until having a month long downtime. Then you'll be really convinced :)

      --
      aaaaaaa
    10. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      LOL. You've never had to reinstall your Windows machine, I take it? Reinstalling Windows and all it's applications, drivers etc. is a FAR more tedious task than installing Linux.

      Linux is an excellent desktop OS. The problem is that most people don't want it, they want Windows because that's what they have been taught, what they know, and comparatively rarely, runs some application which they actually need but can't find a replacement for. (More frequently it's won't find a replacement for.)

      None of that is any evidence of Windows being superior, it's just the normal lazy people who either refuse or are too coward to leave their comfort zone. If people were brought up on Linux, the same factors would work in the other direction.

    11. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Interfacer · · Score: 2

      If you need a week downtime to install an OS which you already know -which the GP implies-, something is not right.

    12. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Interfacer · · Score: 1

      I've done it several times when building a new machine. You pop in the windows disk and when it is done installing, you install your drivers or apps. The last couple of years I haven't had to use the command line for anything. Depending on the amount of apps and the data you want to move, it takes time but generally not a lot of hassling.

      I admit it's been 10 years since I worked with linux. Back in those days, I could install linux fairly easily, but there was always something that required a serious amount of dicking around with config files to get it working. The 3 most common issues would be that sound wouldn't work, wireless wouldn't work, or the graphics config of X (resolution, refresh rates) would be borked.

    13. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by dmpot · · Score: 1

      Unix never made inroads on the desktop.

      Commercial Unix workstations had a decent desktop for its time, but they were too expensive. Their private hardware was the primary reason of their excessive cost. Still they were not eager to offer their OS for PC, when PC became power enough to run UNIX OSes. Though, there were some commercial UNIX OS for i386 in the early 1990s, they were too expensive for private users. By his own admission, Linus would never write his own OS if he could just buy a commercial Unix OS for a reasonable price.

      Linux has been ready for the desktop since about 1999

      I use Linux desktop since 1997, and I know people who started to use it before me. However, when it comes to regular people, Ubuntu became the first distro usable by non-technical crowd. (BTW, personally, I still prefer Debian over Ubuntu, but that's another story...)

      I'm writing this on Windows but that's only because Windows came on this machine, I'll be installing Linux when I have a week of downtime.

      In this regard, my experience is very different than yours. If I had a machine with pre-installed Windows, it would take me a week to install all software that I regularly use, and then I had to change a lot of default settings, which is really annoying. On the other hand, it takes me one day to install a Linux distro from scratch with all required software, and I am ready to go.

      In any case, the reason why we don't have more Linux desktops has nothing to do with the Linux kernel. If you want to have a good desktop, having a good kernel does not really matter that much. On the other hand, if you want to build a supercomputer, the kernel is the crucial part of your system.

    14. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Interfacer · · Score: 1

      Note that I didn't say it was linux's fault. I don't really care whose fault it is / was. All I care about is that when I pop in the installation cd, things get installed and to a decent working state without a lot of finagling. Linux used to have that problem. And that might have various reasons but ultimately, the 'why' doesn't matter to the user.

      Honest question: Let's say I take a 2 year old laptop. I know for sure that I can install windows, and that after installation, I will have sound, wifi and a decent screen. Is the same true for linux if I grab a commonly available distro?

    15. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 2

      Maybe he isn't an idiot and wants to make sure he has time to handle any unanticipated issues. Migrating your working environment isn't just installing Linux, which can be done in an hour or three. A complete backup of the system needs to be done, and you need time to verify all the data has been restored and you can still do all the things you need to get done. Then, unlike with Windows, you have the ability to customize and tweak to your hearts content.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    16. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by donaldm · · Score: 1

      "I'll be installing Linux when I have a week of downtime."

      And that is precisely why Linux isn't a good desktop OS.

      Time to upgrade from Fedora 26 to Fedora 27 for me was about an hour and I actually do an install upgrade since that gets rid of any rubbish that I have not documented. People document their important desktop requirements - don't they?

      Of course, I could do an update process which takes less time and is easier but since I do install some programmes for testing purposes a fresh install does get rid of them unless I have documented that I wish to keep them.

      If you take more than three hours to do an upgrade and most of the time you are waiting then you are doing something wrong. Even a fresh install should take no more than one hour (normally about 20 minutes if you use the automatic install and that includes distributions like Mint as well).

      So I spend about one to one and half hours every half year on an upgrade is that a problem? I do backup but rarely have to go through a recovery since I don't reformat my data filesystems when doing an install upgrade although I do reformat all system filesystems.

      It should be noted that even the stable version of Fedora distribution is not really for the novice since you will be basically on the dull bleeding edge but that said it is still a very good distribution. I would recommend waiting at least a week before installing/upgrading to the latest version unless you are confident in your abilities, although for the last six releases I have not had any issues and issues prior to that have normally been minor.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    17. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Junta · · Score: 1

      Enlightenment is probably the best looking desktop software anywhere, it's customizability makes it hard to include with distros but it should be considered as evidence that it's not user-friendliness or beauty holding Linux back.

      Note that 'beauty' is relative and certainly it is not equivalent to 'user friendly'.

      I will though agree with the sentiment that there is no winning the 'user friendly', because the main desktop environments are user friendly enough, but there just isn't enough upside for the casual user to bother to even think about changing. As such diminishing the 'enthusiast' experience for the sake of the casual user is a strange thing to do.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    18. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 1

      Outlook didn't kick Lotus Notes to the curb... IBM kicked Lotus Notes to the curb.

    19. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Interfacer · · Score: 1

      Actually, if you want to be prepared and have a solid rollback strategy, you'll remove the HD, insert a fresh one and start. And should something fail that you cannot resolve in a timely manner, you put the old one back. That is how we do the very risky server migrations / software updates at work during the annual downtime window.

      As for the backup: you should always have a decent up to date backup. If that is something you need to plan a long time in advance, you're already one hard disk failure away from catastrophe.

    20. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Interfacer · · Score: 1

      I do understand what you mean. I am a software developer myself. Since '98 I have developed software for both linux and windows. Since 2007 windows exclusively. So I understand the OEM story and the rest. In fact for a time being I was a very happy BeOS user until that went down the tubes. For a while I participated to OpenBeOS but that went nowhere.

    21. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by donaldm · · Score: 1

      Laptops can be problematic with Linux distributions and it is always a good idea to do a search to confirm the Linux distribution will work. I personally have found HP laptops do work although I would still recommend a check. A base desktop (check your graphics card compatibility though) will normally run Linux but it does not hurt to check.

      It should go without saying but please image or backup your laptop first. I strongly suggest replacing the disk if you are unsure and even if you get a cheap 120GB SSD you will find that your operating system will take up less then 8GB of data (allocate 30GB to 40GB though) and that will allow you about 80GB to 90GB of user filesystem. Even a 240GB SSD is not that much more expensive and you will get blazing speeds.

      Once you have confirmed your particular laptop will run a Linux distribution get a LIVE version on a USB stick or CD-ROM and boot off it. If it boots and brings up the particular window (ie. Gnome, KDE, Xfce, ... etc) manager and run any tests that you require. Only after you are confident that all tests work then you can install.

      Installation (assuming no dual boot which I don't recommend) of most Linux distributions especially if you just accept the defaults should take less then twenty minutes.

      My Desktop supports 7.1 sound although I only have a 2.1 sound system which if I turn it up will annoy my wife and neighbors. My motherboard supports up to 4K and I have tested it with a 1440p monitor without any issues.

      If you are really into the latest games then please ignore what I have said and stick to MS Windows. There are over 5,000 games (see Steam) that will run natively under Linux but they are usually not the latest games. Anyway, I have a PS4 and a backward compatibility PS3 for games so that is not an issue for me.

      I run Fedora (latest is 27) however I don't recommend that distribution for novice Linux users although I have not had any issues with it for over three years (Fedora 22) and even then the issues I had were minor. I even have Fedora 26 on an eleven year old HP laptop although it chugs when playing H265 video (H264 is fine). A good distribution for the novice upwards is Mint. If you have a problem or question check out the appropriate forums they are all very good.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    22. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by houghi · · Score: 1

      The ONLY think that Linux needs is pre-installed. People do not care what OS they run.They happily use MacOS on the Iphone, Android on their tablet and Windows on their PC or any other combination they can buy.

      Those people that do their own install already run what they want and go out of their way to run it.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    23. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by JesseMcDonald · · Score: 1

      Honest question: Let's say I take a 2 year old laptop. I know for sure that I can install windows, and that after installation, I will have sound, wifi and a decent screen. Is the same true for linux if I grab a commonly available distro?

      Anecdotally... I just ran a Debian live image (from a USB stick) on a roughly two year old laptop to image the hard drive and begin diagnosing an intermittent loss-of-communication issue with the WiFi. The live image immediately started up to a GUI desktop with the proper graphics drivers and perfectly functional WiFi. This was not one of the "user-friendly" desktop distros, and the laptop was not selected for its Linux compatibility, yet—with zero time spent configuring it for that machine—Linux worked better than the Windows environment installed by the manufacturer. (The WiFi issue was eventually fixed by manually deleting and reinstalling the drivers.)

      Now, there are systems out there with unsupported WiFi, unsupported graphics chips, and/or firmware that will refuse to boot anything without Microsoft's seal of approval, so I would recommend investigating a bit before making a purchase to ensure there aren't any major Linux incompatibilities. However, these are the exception rather than the rule. Most systems will work out of the box, especially if they have Intel or AMD graphics chips. (Systems with nVidia graphics may require additional closed-source drivers for full acceleration support, depending on the distro.)

      --
      "The state is that great fiction by which everyone tries to live at the expense of everyone else." - Bastiat
    24. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Try that approach with a modern laptop. Hint: Swapping the hard drive often involves soldering or otherwise taking the laptop apart these days.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    25. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by c · · Score: 1

      KDE was '96, GNOME '97.. in 1999 you'd already have KDE 2.0

      KDE 2.0 wasn't released until 2000. And prior to 3.0, KDE was still a bit too rough an average user (I tried, trust me). GNOME didn't have a working release until 1999, for some definition of "working" that I also wouldn't inflict on anyone I needed to support.

      I think RHL 9 was really when things came together in a state where a Linux Desktop wasn't an uphill battle.

      When Outlook kicked Lotus Notes to the curb they locked that market up good.

      I can't give Outlook much credit for that. Lotus Notes was its own worst enemy.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    26. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Exactly my point. There are so many different, potentially incompatible, and UI discordant ways to adjust things. That's fine, but what's lacking is a unified system. Some of the distros have tried, but they've mostly failed.

      The windows control panel (or whatever they call it these days) is a bit of a UI nightmare, but you can configure whatever a regular user is likely to want from there. Ditto with OS X's Preferences. Linux has everything except a nice, consistent, graphical, go-to, built-in place for the point and click crowd to fiddle with settings.

    27. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      I disagree, from experience. If you set up someone's computer with Linux they don't notice, or care, but they get frustrated when they want to change their desktop image, colour scheme, screensaver, mouse tracking speed or some other trivial setting and can't figure out what icon to click to do it.

    28. Re: Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by mattventura · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. The data can just stay in whatever structure it’s in. As for software, you can always start with virtualization and gradually look for alternatives.

    29. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by argumentsockpuppet · · Score: 1

      What do you think the PCs we buy come with? Seriously.. "just lol"

      The AC comments are strong in this thread. I shouldn't let it bother me, but I wonder how they/you keep track? I can't be bothered to look up my AC comments even the same day, let alone keeping up on a thread like this. I'm genuinely curious what techniques you use? Don't let that curb your trolling, just toss in a tip when you talk about my mom or whatever.

      Most of my workstations have started out as Windows, or in one exception a Mac. On the Mac I used Windows with VMWare, on the windows workstations, they usually started out dual booting. My first personal workstation was Windows 3.1, which I used to get started in programming. Later I used it to learn about Linux and BSD. I ran it side by side with a Solaris box for a long time until an unfortunate incident with a screwdriver and escaping magic smoke. (My quite young daughter thought it was awesome Dad was setting off fireworks in the living room.)

      I always try to get the new versions of Windows at home before they hit RTM and I need to support them at work. Linux is a little more stable; it's rare (bleh again to systemd) to need to learn much new. I recall fondly installing a new CPU and more RAM in my Windows 3.1 PC so I could install Windows 95. I learned about jumpers and motherboard diagrams for that. I'd say that was when I fell in love with computers as a career. I recall installing Red Hat on that same machine later just to learn about alternative OS designs. I'd say that's when I fell in love with computers as a hobby. I was very fortunate to learn enough to incorporate Linux and Unix into my career as well.

    30. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by PixetaledPikachu · · Score: 1

      Exactly my point. There are so many different, potentially incompatible, and UI discordant ways to adjust things. That's fine, but what's lacking is a unified system. Some of the distros have tried, but they've mostly failed.

      The windows control panel (or whatever they call it these days) is a bit of a UI nightmare, but you can configure whatever a regular user is likely to want from there. Ditto with OS X's Preferences. Linux has everything except a nice, consistent, graphical, go-to, built-in place for the point and click crowd to fiddle with settings.

      In Ubuntu it is managed under a single UI called "settings". Of course Nvidia and AMD have their own config UI, which is also the case with Windows anyway. I recently moved the wife's notebook to Ubuntu and teach her that she can find applications/functions that she needs by typing keywords after pressing the super button. No complain so far. She has managed to change wallpaper, importing files from usb sticks and her android phone, do light image editing without asking me on how to do it

    31. Re:Doesn't guarantee success on the desktop by argumentsockpuppet · · Score: 1

      Wow. That kind of comment is a little too familiar. You call learning new skills, constantly updating your understanding of new options incompetence? In my department, if you're not constantly refining your skills, constantly learning more about the systems you use and support and the alternatives available... well that's what we'd call incompetence. Your comment reminds me of two ex-coworkers who I suspect would have shared your perspective. I admit my reactions may be biased as a result, my own viewpoint is likely colored by that designation: ex-coworkers.

      I can scarcely imagine what would have happened if I'd just stuck to the things they taught me in college, instead of poking at every corner of each new release or potential configuration of Windows. Showing my age a bit here, but it'd be hard to find a job where my expertise, even just managing my own workstation, is twenty years out of date. I honestly appreciate the reminder though. I do need to get back in the Windows Insiders Fast Ring. I dropped out for stability issues that actually did manage to irritate me, but I do feel like I need to get back in again, just to keep that one step ahead. The BSODs may have raised my blood pressure and cost me a handful of minutes, but I need the occasional reminder that it's important to focus on the learning instead of the irritants.

      All that said, it really doesn't matter what Windows version, or even what OS is on my workstation, since I can jump to any of a half dozen various alternatives. (I worked for years with one of my workstations running Linux and never had any trouble doing the work at hand.) We have Windows 7 on hand and can go back to Windows XP in a pinch, but typically when I need something I haven't committed to on my current install, I just remote to one of the workstations (or VMs) with a current stable Windows release. Admittedly, if I couldn't manage my work due to the way I test each new workstation configuration, that'd be incompetent, but it'd be equally incompetent, maybe more so, if I couldn't work without a snowflake configuration on whatever machine that happens to sit in front of me.

  4. Re:That's because... by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Informative

    Linux was originally made in Finland.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  5. Not surprising by jwhyche · · Score: 3, Interesting

    From what I know about the windows kernel it couldn't scale upwards well enough to run in this league. And If I remember correctly one of the key goals of Linux was to make sure it could scale well on big iron systems.

    We still don't know if you can successfully beowolf cluster a bunch of the old Microsoft Barnies though.

    --
    I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
    1. Re:Not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And these piece of shit Linux nodes fail all the time.

      That must be why all 500 are running Linux - for the great failure rate. Or maybe you're wrong.

    2. Re:Not surprising by Zaelath · · Score: 2

      So they're a $5-6 million in electricity to run, $100-200 million to design/assemble, but what really decides the OS to run is the cost.

      OK.

    3. Re:Not surprising by xvan · · Score: 1

      Failures on supercomputers are usually hardware and not software related.
      Take cosmic rays: you'll have one double bit flip on memory per day on 75000 DIMMs http://www.fiala.me/pubs/paper...
      Titan has 18688 nodes.
      As the amount of nodes increases, the time to first failure gets lower and lower. I heard that next gen supercomputers will have jobs maximum time reduced from current 1 day to 4 to 6 hours.

    4. Re:Not surprising by Kjella · · Score: 1

      From what I know about the windows kernel it couldn't scale upwards well enough to run in this league. And If I remember correctly one of the key goals of Linux was to make sure it could scale well on big iron systems.

      Originally? No, not at all. "I'm doing a (free) operating system (just a hobby, won't be big and professional like gnu) for 386(486) AT clones." But it's the sort of thing you can patch a kernel to do so this happened.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    5. Re:Not surprising by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The main issue with Windows is not scaling, it's been able to make good use of >100 cores since the early 2000s. The issue is management.

      These computers don't run one single OS. They run multiple copies of the same OS on nodes, and dispatch work to those nodes using special high speed interconnects. When you have thousands of CPUs, power supplies, RAM modules etc. some of them are going to fail, so you divide them up into nodes that can fail and recover individually.

      Windows is not well suited to this. With Linux you can just create an OS image and deploy it over a network. Windows can kinda do that, but it's awkward and not really suited to embedded, headless operation in a highly networked environment.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Not surprising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Aaahahaha you've got no idea what you're talking about. Totally have no idea how resilience is handled.

      > hundreds of times per second

      Wow, you're totally out to lunch. Absolutely no clue about the technologies or scale involved.

      No, supercomputers typically perform periodic application-level checkpointing, and a failure will result in the entire application being brought back up from the last checkpoint. They don't just bring nodes back in to rejoin ongoing computation (that's an area of research and development, but not how most of today's codes work).

      And mean time between failures across the cluster might be days or hours or minutes (if it's a particularly unstable system). It's not milliseconds. You're only at least 5 orders of magnitude off there.

    7. Re:Not surprising by JanneM · · Score: 1

      Even if you could create a version of Windows that would run well in a cluster environment, the applications aren't there. One reason Linux is so dominant is that the kind of code you want to run on a big cluster is all written for Linux.

      With that said, some HPC apps are hybrid; you run a client on your local machine (Windows app, or a web app) that dispatches the work on to the cluster in the background. With those you can treat the cluster as a big accelerator for your local app.

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    8. Re:Not surprising by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Who says these super computers are running a free variant of Linux?

      I do. There is no such thing as a non-free variant of Linux.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    9. Re:Not surprising by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Failures on supercomputers are usually hardware and not software related

      Specious. Failures on supercomputer bring-up (where the big frontend engineering costs live) are usually software and not hardware.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    10. Re:Not surprising by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Why do you even need an operating system. Why not run 'on bare metal'?

      Because each node needs to manage its hardware resources, interact with other nodes, and provide a standard binary api to applications. In other words, it needs an operating system.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    11. Re:Not surprising by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      for the many of them saying they run Linux is really BS, all they have done is taken a few bits that they needed and saved themselves some coding time, they don't run Linux in anything but name.

      You are an idiot.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  6. Re:That's because... by anon+mouse-cow-aard · · Score: 4, Funny

    oblig: other OS's are Finnished?

  7. What a pathetic bunch of comments so far by GerryGilmore · · Score: 3, Insightful

    How far has the discussion quality fallen? Apparently this low, even without a political bent.

    1. Re:What a pathetic bunch of comments so far by DCFusor · · Score: 1

      Sorry, out of mod points...not that they help that much when we're swarmed by immature idiots and AC trolls.

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    2. Re:What a pathetic bunch of comments so far by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 2

      I signed up here almost from the very beginning of Slashdot time. A few days earlier and I might have had ID#100000. From what people have been saying here in all those 19+ years, Slashdot was dying, has always been dying, is still dying, and will always be dying. I just ignore the irritating cruft, and I'd advise everyone to do that.

      So, moving right along... how about those TOP500 scores!

      --
      I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
    3. Re:What a pathetic bunch of comments so far by Steve72 · · Score: 2

      Imagine a Beowulf cluster of these?

    4. Re:What a pathetic bunch of comments so far by CBravo · · Score: 2

      In Russia, Beowulf cluster imagines you.

      --
      nosig today
    5. Re:What a pathetic bunch of comments so far by AbRASiON · · Score: 1

      Can you elaborate on what you think the problem is?

      I haven't noticed them being particularly bad, however I have noticed there's less and less. Particularly the last 4 months or so? Has the gradual decline sped up?

    6. Re:What a pathetic bunch of comments so far by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Slashdot has definitely changed. I remember when it was more of a marketplace of ideas, where interesting comments were actually modded "interesting" instead of "flamebait" or "troll". I remember when everything wasn't a conspiracy of some kind.

      Back on topic, imagine a Beowulf cluster of the top 500 supercomputers!

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:What a pathetic bunch of comments so far by JanneM · · Score: 1

      Todays supercomputers and clusters are all descendants of the Beowulf clusters. No need to imagine anything :)

      --
      Trust the Computer. The Computer is your friend.
    8. Re: What a pathetic bunch of comments so far by Duncan+J+Murray · · Score: 1

      Popped back here after a few years away. My thoughts exactly.

    9. Re:What a pathetic bunch of comments so far by Steve72 · · Score: 1

      Fair point.

      How about imagining Natalie Portman naked and petrified? ;)

  8. Microsoft's supercomputing efforts by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 1

    As Linux began to crack the TOP500 list in the 1990s, Bill Gates tried to ignite a supercomputer effort at Microsoft but it never amounted to much. I wish I could find a link to it. Anyways, I found the following timeline for Microsoft's "Project Catapult" AI-related supercomputing effort, which might not be in the TOP500 list's league:
            2010: Microsoft researchers meet with Bing executives to propose using FPGAs to accelerate Indexserve.
            2011: A team of Microsoft software engineers and researchers come together to address a huge processing problem: how to use customized, programmable integrated circuits to accelerate computationally expensive operations in Bing’s Indexserve engine.
            2012: Large scale pilot of FPGA boards in each of 1,632 servers and wiring them with a custom secondary network.
            2013: Results of pilot demonstrated positive ROI, allowed latency improvements in ranking while cutting the number of required servers in half. Decision was made to go to production.
            2014: Publication of paper and decision to merge Bing design with Microsoft’s converged SKU, adding to the v2 architecture that enables configurable clouds.
            2015: Ramp up to large-scale production in Bing and Azure.
            2016: “Configurable Cloud” architecture in nearly every new production server. Configurable Cloud paper published (Micro 2016, October)
    https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...

    --
    I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
    1. Re:Microsoft's supercomputing efforts by Bert64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There was an "HPC" edition of windows 2003, and microsoft managed to sponsor a few places to build clusters using it that made it into the top500 list...
      I don't recall anyone ever using it of their own volition tho, only if microsoft were paying, and at least one of those clusters was a dual boot experiment which climbed 50 places in the ranking when booted to linux.

      --
      http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
    2. Re:Microsoft's supercomputing efforts by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      one of those clusters was a dual boot experiment which climbed 50 places in the ranking when booted to linux

      Really, this is the only comment anybody needs to read in the "why not Windows?" thread.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  9. Obligatory xkcd by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1
    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:Obligatory xkcd by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 2

      That time when Linus's wife could not be Rickrolled because her Linux box had no Flash capability was a searing tragedy in the annals of computer history.

      --
      I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
  10. So, Linux turned the Top500 into a Monoculture by williamyf · · Score: 2

    So, the Top 500 list of computers was dominated by many Variants of Unix, with a little sprinkle of other weird stuff (among those, VMS). Which is not a monoculture

    Then, as the other weird stuff waned, Windows took it's place (for a short while). Not directly as a replacement of course, but rather as a percentage of Top500 systems.

    On the other side of the fence, Linux began to take increasign market share of the Top500 because of low cost, shallow learning curve from *nix, and posibility to modify source code, in an accelerated path to become a monoculture (at least where the Top500 is concerned).

    And now, finally, we are on a monoculture in the Top500, with Linux all the way in the Top500... No *BSD, no AIX, HP-UX, or Solaris. Just Linux all the way.

    Better not catch anyone complaining about Chrome Monoculture, Windows Monoculture, or Android monoculture! M'kay? ;-)

    --
    *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
    1. Re:So, Linux turned the Top500 into a Monoculture by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 1

      These latest TOP500 project teams seem to have exercised free choice of OSes, free from force or coercion. Choice is good, so I'm not sure if you're complaining, and if so, why? If we knew that all 500 projects were using completely interchangeable code and hardware we might have a monoculture at play, but the reality is that they used the best available OS option for their own specific, bespoke, custom needs. I hope I understood your comment correctly.

      --
      I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
    2. Re:So, Linux turned the Top500 into a Monoculture by quantaman · · Score: 2, Insightful

      So, the Top 500 list of computers was dominated by many Variants of Unix, with a little sprinkle of other weird stuff (among those, VMS). Which is not a monoculture

      Then, as the other weird stuff waned, Windows took it's place (for a short while). Not directly as a replacement of course, but rather as a percentage of Top500 systems.

      On the other side of the fence, Linux began to take increasign market share of the Top500 because of low cost, shallow learning curve from *nix, and posibility to modify source code, in an accelerated path to become a monoculture (at least where the Top500 is concerned).

      And now, finally, we are on a monoculture in the Top500, with Linux all the way in the Top500... No *BSD, no AIX, HP-UX, or Solaris. Just Linux all the way.

      Better not catch anyone complaining about Chrome Monoculture, Windows Monoculture, or Android monoculture! M'kay? ;-)

      I think the reason it's become a Linux "monoculture" is that it isn't really a monoculture.

      Top-500 should be an area that's amendable to variety. Any one project is big enough that some serious customization is going to occur, so traditionallyany one OS could focus on a specific feature set and nab themselves a bit of the market. That's why the big Unixes co-existed for so long, if your problem was a round hole you'd grab the Unix that looked the most like a round peg, and if you had a square hold you'd grab one that looked like a square peg.

      But Linux is modifiable, so if you need a round peg you can make it a round peg. If you really need a specific feature or optimization you can write a kernel patch. That doesn't matter for the consumer market but it matters for the top-500 list.

      I wonder what the future of the BSDs is, they have cool communities but I'm not really sure where their niche is.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    3. Re:So, Linux turned the Top500 into a Monoculture by quantaman · · Score: 1

      I suppose it's all about cost for the proprietary OSes

      Not for the top-500, I'm sure Linux is cheaper that the Unixes, but you don't get a machine on the top-500 by cost-cutting.

      but what of the BSDs? They're free, and the license would let custom work on a super computer's OS be closed and even sold. Is it networking speeds or the like? Parallelism? I would really like to know, didn't come here for "'cause Linux Rulz!" ass-hattery

      I think it's simpler than that, what does BSD have that Linux doesn't?

      Linux gives you an open source Unix with a massive community and a ton of corporate backing.

      BSD gives you an open source Unix with a small community and a little bit of corporate backing.

      I'm sure there's some specific application where BSD might have an advantage, but there's going to be a lot of applications where Linux has big advantage just because there's so many technical resources thrown behind it and so many skilled developers and admins available.

      It's not so much a criticism of BSD, it could have gone differently (though it probably would have needed a copyleft license to attract the community) but the open source community has largely unified around Linux.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    4. Re:So, Linux turned the Top500 into a Monoculture by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Top500?

      We are talking about Supercomputers here. Surely you mean TOPS20!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    5. Re:So, Linux turned the Top500 into a Monoculture by coofercat · · Score: 1

      So you're saying people are using Linux as a 'framework' upon which they build their own (custom) supercomputer OS? Nice! :-)

    6. Re:So, Linux turned the Top500 into a Monoculture by williamyf · · Score: 1

      [...] so I'm not sure if you're complaining, and if so, why? [...] I hope I understood your comment correctly.

      Right at the end of the comment, there is a ;-) emoticon.

      You may have missed it.

      --
      *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
    7. Re:So, Linux turned the Top500 into a Monoculture by afidel · · Score: 1

      The BSDs I run into mostly in embedded applications, mostly security and network appliances. The primary drawback to the BSDs in my experience is driver availability and that doesn't really apply if you're building your own appliance so long as your upstream providers can be convinced to supply a BSD driver for your application.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  11. Re:Where's the source? by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

    I'm rather sure that means since the super computer builders are building their own OS out of Linux, they don't have to supply anybody the source as their not sharing it. However I may be mistaken, anybody here that knows the contract of Linux that can verify this?

  12. Re:On the other hand... by nyet · · Score: 1

    Who is "they"?

  13. Yeah. And? by thedarb · · Score: 2

    What'd you expect it to run? Windows?

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    This sig intentionally left blank.
  14. Distro by ShakaUVM · · Score: 1

    Anyone have any information on what distro they use? The article didn't say.

    1. Re:Distro by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 1

      I'd expect that most of them are not distro-based but rather LFS-based: http://www.linuxfromscratch.or...

      --
      I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
  15. Re: 'This happened for two reasons.' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Odd statement, considering Microsoft mantra declares Linux is far more expensive than Linux.

  16. Re:Yeah. And? by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 1

    I'm sure some of those rigs could spare a few CPU cycles to run VMs in case somebody needs to Skype their basement-dwelling maladroit kid.

    --
    I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
  17. Re:Yeah. And? by iggymanz · · Score: 3, Informative

    five years ago, 3 of the top 500 did run windows, and in 2011 4 did.

  18. Re:On the other hand... by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    Haven't had, neither other Linuxers I know, any graphics card problem for a long time.

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    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  19. Re: 'This happened for two reasons.' by qwerty+shrdlu · · Score: 4, Funny

    Odd statement, considering Microsoft mantra declares Linux is far more expensive than Linux.

    I think you got that backwards

  20. Re: 'This happened for two reasons.' by repka · · Score: 2

    I think he got it just right.

  21. Re:Yeah. And? by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    What'd you expect it to run? Windows?

    Some people would expect that. But the Linux kernel is certainly more customizable than a Windows black box (that would require the help of Microsoft engineers).

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  22. Re:On the other hand... by Bert64 · · Score: 1

    Several of the top500 are using GPUs, but for calculations rather than displaying graphics. Having an active video display on a large cluster would be stupid, most supercomputer nodes won't have screens attached and while the power consumption of an idle display controller is pretty low its not 0, and multiplied by thousands of nodes its a terrible waste of power.

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  23. Re: 'This happened for two reasons.' by PixetaledPikachu · · Score: 1

    Only Linux can topple Linux

  24. Re:On the other hand... by Jeremi · · Score: 1

    Do supercomputers ever come with a graphics card (that is intended to drive a display)?

    I'd imagine that if you want a console for your supercomputer, you set up a PC next to it and run X Window remotely or something.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  25. Re:Where's the source? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

    If the institution using it is building it, no requirement to distribute.

    If a third party is building it, they only need to provide it to the one they build I for, and only upon request.

    This is GPLv2

    I've requested source code from a company that had GPLv2 software and didn't give source once specifically to change the folder select dialogue for my personal use once (I'm not a real coder, but it was exciting and made my life much better).

    I think they erroneously thought they had to comply with the GPL because they used ffmpeg, but they distributed it as a separate folder and ran it through the command line, so I doubt they did.

    Anyway, I suspect I was one if very few people to ever request the code, it was pretty much as good as closed source (it was a utility that went along with an expensive closed source app that they would never give the source to).

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  26. Re:Nobody will care one day soon. by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

    As read ~27 years ago amidst the OS flame wars: The only people who should know about operating systems are programmers. Users do not interact with operating systems

  27. Re:Where's the source? by rgbatduke · · Score: 5, Informative

    I'm not even sure what you are asking here. Do you truly have no idea how a GPL works?

    Anyway, you have this exactly backwards. The reason Linux became popular during the parallel supercomputing "revolution" (and I say this as a modest expert, at least at that time) is because it IS an open source operating system, so you could hack the kernel, write your own kernel drivers, fix things like networking bugs or system balance issues, and handle memory at a very primitive level. You got then, and can easily get now, the complete source of the OS and all of its device drivers, although the latter has been a constant source of contention between hardware mfrs who think that a device driver that makes their hardware run is some sort of "trade secret" and the keepers of the Linux kernel. Over decades (at this point) the mfrs have largely given up and actively help with kernel drivers instead of insisting on binary-only distributions. This played a critical role in the development of early parallel supercomputers once Linux had its first kernel capable of symmetric multiprocessing with two (and rapidly more) CPUs or (later) cores, or both. That would be roughly kernel 2.0, although there were still serious issues with race conditions, (network) driver interrupts and lockups, memory management, and so on, through 2.0.4+ -- really they went on forever as the 2.0 kernel wasn't truly symmetric, handled interrupt locking "badly", and took a lot of revision and some new paradigms to smooth out and stabilize. Ah, those were the days...

    Microsoft, on the other hand, made you sign away your firstborn child in order to get a copy of the OS source -- even as a research institution. If (say) your network drivers were slow, or locked up while multiprocessing, you were SOL. You COULDN'T fix it. You couldn't even find the bug. And it wasn't worth the effort -- even if you sacrificed a goat and got the source -- to learn to work with the source because it changed at MS's whim and all your work could go down the tubes at any moment and if you DID develop anything that ran on their system in some "custom" fashion, you ran into serious issues if you wanted to share it. You COULDN'T share your work with anybody else, not unless they had a surplus of goats or firstborn children too.

    "Anybody" (with a need and decent programming chops) could join the linux kernel list and communicate directly with the main kernel developers and report bugs, contribute fixes or drivers, etc. There was a lot of healthy debate about what needed to be fixed, or improved, first, second, third etc, as well as just how to go about fixing them -- sometimes it required substantial redesign and had to wait for a major bump (and a lot of testing). You could of course hack/fix your own kernels or add your own device drivers, or fix broken drivers, or mess with internal "tuning", and I and many others did, but behind the public scenes the actual kernel developers -- the heart of linux, as it were -- made steady, inexorable progress.

    By the year 2000, Linux had made serious inroads into not only the top 500, but there were literally uncounted small clusters that weren't fast enough (or weren't architected correctly) to crack the top 500, which relied on things like the Linpack benchmark to determine who to include. There were lots of folks who didn't USE linear algebra in their computations who built massively parallel compute farms with many different architectures and purposes who didn't even have the benchmark software installed (or give a shit) about their "ranking". Both PVM and MPI were fully ported onto Linux and most of their ongoing development was taking place on Linux boxes. Additional tools for management and job distribution and much more were developed -- on mostly Linux boxes, but yeah, there were still SGIs and Sun Microsystems clusters and much more out there. They suffered -- badly suffered, terminally badly suffered in pretty much all cases -- from being much, much more expensive than over the counter Intel or AMD box

    --
    Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
  28. Re:Where's the source? by behrooz0az · · Score: 1

    If a program depends on a gpl part in any way without any alternatives to do its primary function then it must be gpl as well. It's a clear rule.

    --
    Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion. -- Spazmania (174582)
  29. Re:Yeah. And? by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

    And, I'm betting that Microsoft sponsored all of them, just to have SOMETHING ON THE LIST. But did M$ ever manage to bribe enough people to get 1 lousy percent of the top 500?

    For most people, the extra HUMAN expense of making a cluster work at all, and the extra TIME expense of having it run like a pig when you get it to run at all, isn't worth even a massive M$ bribe free cluster (as long as you run Windows). It sort of depends on whether actually getting your work done is more important to you than pain.

    --
    Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
  30. BSD by ArchieBunker · · Score: 2

    The *BSDs will keep on doing what they have always done. Run well with minimal upkeep and not beta test features on production releases. Under Linux the mentality is if something compiles then ship it. I ran Linux in the 2.0.x kernel days. What they call Linux today is so far removed it might as well be a different operating system. Some distros don't even include tools like nslookup or traceroute anymore. Good luck installing that package if your default route isn't set. Oh and "route" has been changed to something else now for no good reason. What exactly was wrong with the old program and syntax?

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:BSD by swb · · Score: 1

      I switched to FreeBSD from Linux ages ago because it was a complete system. Linux was a kernel with a bunch of utilities bolted onto it, and there was That One Day where I was trying to upgrade something and needed a key utility for configuring something and it wouldn't run, and there was no "source" for an updated version. I gave FreeBSD a spin and just liked that everything was a part of a larger whole, and not a bunch of pieces with varying standards.

      FreeBSD can have other problems, sometimes certain ports are broken for a long time, for example, but generally speaking the base system always works.

      Ironically, I think that "the Linux desktop" actually has contributed to Linux large OSS market share, despite it never quite being the year of the Linux desktop. I think that when distros emerged with out-of-the-box GUIs and browsers a lot of technically oriented people who might not have run a CLI-only OS were able to "get into" Linux because the GUI was just good enough to be basically usable, even if it wasn't feature complete with Windows.

    2. Re:BSD by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      What needed to be maintained exactly? Were there bugs or security problems? If the answer is no then why fix something that was never broken?

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  31. Re:'This happened for two reasons.' by jrumney · · Score: 2

    I think the cliffhanger ending is the editors attempt to bring back slashdotting. There was once a time, when sites would be brought to their knees by a front page story on Slashdot. These days noone reads TFA, so the concept of slashdotting has faded from memory.

  32. Re:Where's the source? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

    Is it?

    I thought if a program was only running command line functions of an executable it was not linked.

    At the very least that's debatable I'd think.

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  33. Re:That's because... by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Actually he abandoned his homeland in search of warmth.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  34. Of course it requires a supercomputer by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 3, Funny

    ... to fully appreciate all the features of the latest Enlightenment desktop.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
    1. Re:Of course it requires a supercomputer by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Hey, old jokes are the best jokes!

      --
      #DeleteChrome
  35. Limitation of a single computer by Prien715 · · Score: 2

    For most parallel problems, it's possible to divide them and send each piece to different computers, rather than a different core on the same computer. For even more highly parallel problems, using a GPUs to do the computation is even faster.

    With 100 gig ethernet, we're starting to see networking speeds closer to bus speeds on motherboards themselves and it's cheaper, faster to scale (especially dynamically), and probably more fault tolerant (node fail? Send the job to a different node) to use more computer nodes rather than using more processors in a single computer.

    Distributed computing has almost made supercomputers irrelevant -- except for people with a hole in their pocket. Folding@home is more powerful than anything on their list while we have no idea what monster of a compute clusters work inside Google or Facebook -- but given the open source software they have released (e.g. Facebook's 360 degree video stitcher) and how slow they are on a single machine -- the only way they'd be usable on their site is if you have a massive cluster.

    --
    -- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
    1. Re:Limitation of a single computer by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      Distributed computing has almost made supercomputers irrelevant

      Not really, no. supercomputers are distributed computers with good interconnects. For many calculations, the interconnect is really, really REALLY imortant which is why a good number have the interconnect right there on die with the CPU.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    2. Re:Limitation of a single computer by Khashishi · · Score: 1

      You are dreaming if you think every scientific simulation can be gamified and distributed to the masses.

  36. Re:That's because... by YukariHirai · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Anybody still believe Linus Torvalds about how Linux was just for fun?

    Of course. Linux was just for fun; now he makes a living out of it. A person's motivations for doing something don't have to remain exactly the same for the whole time they do it.

  37. FreeBSD by sremick · · Score: 1

    I miss the days when the list had a ton of FreeBSD systems. To this day, it remains my preferred OS. Two little software compatibility issues prevent me from running it as my desktop OS anymore although I did for many years. It still has a home on several servers here in my house where it has distinct advantages over Linux.

    1. Re:FreeBSD by sremick · · Score: 1

      I'm a home-owner in my 40s, with multiple servers and network switches in our home, but nice troll-fail.

  38. Re:Where's the source? by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
    Most of the programs run on super computers do not scale well down on a desktop

    Most programs run on Supercomputers are probably as old as Linux, if not older. I am pretty sure a dual processor quad-core Intel processor will beat the pants off a Cray Y, let alone a CDC7600.

    It might take a while to hack the Fortran from FTN to GCC, but its a lot easier if the supercomputers are 64bit machines running Linux and not Chronos on a 60 bit machine.

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  39. Re:Any cluster scales by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 5, Funny
    plenty of Windows clusters doing stuff.

    The technical term for this is "botnets".

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  40. Re:That's because... by invictusvoyd · · Score: 4, Funny

    shhh.. No one knows that all the TOP 500 supercomputers run on EMACS..

  41. Re: So I guess this proves *BSD is dead by stooo · · Score: 1

    Yeah, but Triumph of the Free.

    --
    aaaaaaa
  42. Re:Are the supercomputers fully backdoored? by stooo · · Score: 1

    Yes.
    Supercomputers usually have front and back doors. It's needed for maintenance.
    So yes, they are alwas backdoored.
    https://media2.s-nbcnews.com/j...

    --
    aaaaaaa
  43. Re:'This happened for two reasons.' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Bullshit.

    Linux is used because it's far, far, FAR more flexible, less resource intensive and more efficient than Windows, while supporting and making good use of vastly larger amounts of RAM and CPUs.

    If you baseline is one of the proprietary Unices, it's still more flexible, less archaic and more familiar to users while supporting a wider range of hardware while being infinitely cheaper.

  44. Re:That's because... by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 1

    If you ask Linus, he'd tell you he still does it for fun.

    --
    Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
  45. Re:That's because... by bruce_the_loon · · Score: 2

    After optimizing his computer to the point the CPU couldn't produce enough heat to warm his house anymore.

    --
    Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
  46. Re:Where's the source? by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

    I'm rather sure that means since the super computer builders are building their own OS out of Linux, they don't have to supply anybody the source as their not sharing it. However I may be mistaken...

    You are mistaken. Top 500 shops are regular contributors to mainline Linux development, with test cases, patches and more than a few core developers. They do it because they benefit from it, and they save money that way, they don't need to carry patches. And they aren't "competing" in the commercial sense, they just want the best system they can have, and that means, play with the community.

    anybody here that knows the contract of Linux that can verify this?

    Contract??? You really don't get it, good luck with that.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  47. Re:On the other hand... by Miles_O'Toole · · Score: 1

    I believe some do, though they don't necessarily use it to put images on a monitor.

    --
    Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
  48. Re:On the other hand... by dargaud · · Score: 1

    Some do, to run CUDA on it. But often it's not standard graphic cards, but derived hardware such as Xeon Phi.

    --
    Non-Linux Penguins ?
  49. Re:Linux with systemd --- bleak future ahead by jabuzz · · Score: 1

    Though I think you will find that the vast majority are running some mainstream Linux distribution on the nodes. Whether that is a RHEL derivative (CentOS/Scientific Linux) or a LTS version of Ubuntu etc. if it's latest its systemd.

  50. Windows subsystem for Linux. by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
    Amazon, Google and Microsoft have cloud platforms. Technically by the "network is the computer" mantra from Sun Solaris days, these are supercomputers.

    There Linux compatibility is so essential to get a toehold there Microsoft had to support linux way of doing things. Finally it relented and introduced "Linux subsystem of Windows" support.

    Does it support incoming ssh connections? I use ssh to go out of Windows to connect to Linux machines in my network. If the linux subsystem allows incoming ssh and RSA keys, I see Active Directory losing, eventually, to Linux based authentication servers.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  51. Re:'This happened for two reasons.' by Megol · · Score: 2

    Price is a positive thing of course but not why it is used - the cost for OS software in a supercomputer would be a fraction of the hardware and infrastructure costs anyway.

    The thing is that Linux have excellent scalability when it comes to I/O throughput, this is something that many companies and individuals have worked hard to achieve. So it is possible to adapt an OS installation to be suitable for extreme throughput.

    The compute nodes themselves doesn't really need a proper operating system (and many supercomputers/clusters in the past had extremely limited systems) and in fact any OS overhead is processing power wasted. Userspace programs using the MPI to communicate is the norm. And again the adaptability of Linux is an advantage, customizing a small efficient kernel with the necessities and nothing else is easy.

    But the most important thing is that people already have done the adaptions and that those are available for others to use. Sure there are system specific things that have to be changed anyway but that would be the case for any large cluster machine. The closest to plug and play one can come.

  52. Re: 'This happened for two reasons.' by bytestorm · · Score: 1

    Regarding things that break over time in linux, at least these days, if I static link with musl I can guarantee my binaries will work on other distributions as opposed to being jacked by glibc. Granted nsswitch will be broken if you want to use anything but dns, but screw it!

  53. Re:That's because... by zifn4b · · Score: 1

    it's made in the USA, USA, USA!

    No it's because they're running Beowulf Clusters. Sorry couldn't resist and hadn't seen it in a long time. </nostalgia>

    --
    We'll make great pets
  54. Re:That's because... by zifn4b · · Score: 1

    Linus lives in America now, since he abandoned his homeland in search of money, money, money.

    Linux 2: The Search for More Money

    Linux: The Breakfast Cereal
    Linux: The Toilet Paper
    Linux: The Flame Thrower (people really love this one and Linus is no stranger to spewing flames)

    --
    We'll make great pets
  55. Re:That's because... by donaldm · · Score: 1

    shhh.. No one knows that all the TOP 500 supercomputers run on EMACS..

    No they run under vi but don't tell Richard that. Now let the flame wars of the 1980's begin again. :-)

    --
    There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
  56. Re:That's because... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    Actually he abandoned his homeland in search of warmth.

    He couldn't have bought a Pentium 4?

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  57. Re:Any cluster scales by niks42 · · Score: 1

    >> Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII

    I didn't have lower case on my ASR33 .. you use embedded hex codes to type that?

  58. Re:On the other hand... by niks42 · · Score: 1

    TBH, where GUIs are desired for cluster management &c, it's often easier to present an HTTPS service on the nodes (or head nodes) so you can point a browser at it. I am working at the moment with an HPC build in a hospital; I have to use their VPN solution to get into the cluster, and that routes me to a Windows box to act as a jump-off point with an account on the local AD. Of course the Windows box has a web browser (ancient) - so that comes in quite handy. The hospital IT department won't install an X server on it, so thankful am I that most of the GUI tools can be run from a browser.

    I had to find a terminal emulator that I could use without installing, so Teraterm came to the rescue again. Lovely program that stores its settings in the directory it is launched from as well .. There are still some cluster tools that either require X or a client that needs installing (more sucking of teeth from the IT department. I found one set of cluster tools launches Firefox and provides a plug-in for it, but IT won't install Firefox.I can't find an X server that doesn't need to be installed on the Windows box either.

  59. Re:That's because... by barbariccow · · Score: 1

    Won't happen. Everyone knows vi is better than emacs.

  60. Re:Where's the source? by UnknowingFool · · Score: 1

    He's not wrong about the GPL. You only have to publish your changes if you distribute. If you use it personally and internally, you don't have to publish your source code. However many super computing environments are academic institutions who have no problems sharing their changes and modifications. But that doesn't mean all sites must. Some might fall under competing guidelines. For example, the top US computer is Titan at Oak Ridge National Laboratory. It is a national government laboratory so there might be a mandate to publicly share information but it also does military research so some of what it works is sensitive to national security concerns. The most likely use of their supercomputer is nuclear detonation simulations. So changes to Titan to make the computer faster in general could be published (network, latency, I/O, etc). Changes that made nuclear calculations faster might not be published.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  61. Re:That's because... by barbariccow · · Score: 1

    I used a newer beowulf cluster just last year.

  62. Re:Xyrus, agreed 110% (been saying that...) by barbariccow · · Score: 1

    Linux also has a shorter path to the hosts file than windows. That's gotta be a plus for you, right?

  63. Re: 'This happened for two reasons.' by barbariccow · · Score: 1

    The hell are you talking about? Maybe static compilation isn't the way to go. You can ship the .o files and link them via an "install.sh" script on the target system, then you can work against multiple versions of libs. Or just.. you know... provide the source.

  64. Re:Where's the source? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

    I suspect over caution from legal.

    It's simply a DVD ripper and video converter that's main purpose is to get mpeg 1 files from any format ever for the sake of syncing deposition text to video.

    They make their money selling the auto syncing at a few bucks an hour, not on a video conversion tool of the class if $30 video conversation tools.

    There's very reliably took all inputsl files, handled scaling and shape correctly, and spit out a file, with zero work, so I liked it. What I didn't like was the windows default file folder picker doesn't let you pasted in a path.

    If it was the engineer wanting it open, I suspect they'd make the source easier to get. It had the feeling of an "oh shit, we better add this"

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  65. Succinctly by go-nix.ca · · Score: 1

    "World Domination. Fast" -- Linus Torvalds

  66. Re:James Dean says (lol)... apk by barbariccow · · Score: 1

    Why not? Why is it so hard to port, at least a cli version with no options.. the hosts file is the same format, hopefully you're using the standard open/malloc/close file handling, which is already portable. Or if you for some reason wrote it in .NET for whatever reason, there's tools like mono and silverlight that should make easy it porting. Hell, here's a simple implementation in bash:

    #!/bin/bash
    BLOCKED_HOSTS="blah.example.com ads.google.com etc.whatever.com"

    die() {
    echo "$@" 2>&1
    exit 1
    }
    [ ! -w "/etc/hosts" ] && die "Error: Cannot write to /etc/hosts"
    for blockHost in ${BLOCKED_HOSTS};
    do
    if ! ( grep -q "^.*[\t ]*${blockHost}" "/etc/hosts" >/dev/null 2>&1 ) then
    echo "Blackholing host ${blockHost}";
    printf "%s\t%s\n" "127.0.0.1" "${blockHost}" >> /etc/hosts
    fi
    done

    Just replace BLOCKED_HOSTS with a space-separated list of hosts you want to block, it will scan if they are already blocked and block the ones that aren't in your list. I hereby donate this code to the public domain, you're free to use it however you please.

    Here's example of it working:

    [root@MYHOSTNAME ___brIj4s05]# chmod +x doit.sh
    [root@MYHOSTNAME ___brIj4s05]# ./doit.sh
    Blackholing host blah.example.com
    Blackholing host ads.google.com
    Blackholing host etc.whatever.com
    [root@MYHOSTNAME ___brIj4s05]# ./doit.sh # Note that the second run doesn't block anything that isn't already blocked
    [root@MYHOSTNAME ___brIj4s05]#

  67. ssh and scripting by Khashishi · · Score: 1

    Having used supercomputers for some physics simulations, I have some understanding of the general workflow. There is no need for GUI nonsense on a supercomputer. You have thousands of users using the supercomputer remotely. You ssh in to submit jobs into a queue. You process input files and do some file manipulation. You write scripts to copy and edit input and output files to organize your test cases. You copy what you need to your local workstation so you can visualize the results. This is exactly what POSIX is for.

    I suppose POSIX for Windows exists, but it is far behind Linux. What's the point in running Windows if you are going to use POSIX?

    Generally, you want to compile your codes for each supercomputer you run on, so a full make environment and portable API is kind of important.

  68. Re:James Dean says (lol)... apk by barbariccow · · Score: 1

    Acftually, make the grep line this for more betterer:
    if ! ( grep -q "^127.0.0.1.*${blockHost}" "/etc/hosts" >/dev/null 2>&1 ) then

  69. Re:Yeah. And? by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 1

    They're still waiting from 5 years ago for pagefile.sys to populate. "It looked like it was all booted up and ready to go all that time, but in reality the disk thrashing kept going and going forever," complained a researcher.

    --
    I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
  70. Re:LMAO - others here tried 5x & FAILED... apk by barbariccow · · Score: 1

    what? That's a simple port I gave you in like 8 lines. It's not "Script Kiddie" as bash isn't a scripting language... it's a batch language. And as I showed in the bottom it works. Use it if you want, don't if you don't want. If you wanted to port your thing to Linux you just have to put the database into BLOCKED_HOSTS, or even better if you have a url to host the space-separated list, change that line to:

    BLOCKED_HOSTS="$(curl https://www.apk.com/BAD_HOST_L... 2>/dev/null)"
    [ $? -ne 0 ] && die "Failed to fetch new host list."


    You don't need sort or uniq or any of that junk... I again can't tell if this is trolling or not, but as you see it already handles not adding duplicate entries via the grep conditional.
    Or maybe this is a fake apk troll I dunno.. whatever.

  71. Re: James Dean says (lol)... apk by barbariccow · · Score: 1

    Nothing. I donated it to public domain. As an open source developer, my thanks comes from replacing black box crap with well-written, supportable, and customizable software. :)

  72. Re:You miss what other 'scriptkiddies' always do by barbariccow · · Score: 1

    Add "-i" to the grep command to handle case differences. Either trolling or you have absolutely no skill or experience programming, as this is almost completely wrong in every statement.

  73. Re:Yeah. And? by iggymanz · · Score: 1

    They got through that but now they're waiting for them to shut down, the 2011 batch of windows supercomputers is currently displaying "Installing patching 354 out of 1023 Do Not Power Off"