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Facebook Still Lets Housing Advertisers Exclude Users By Race (arstechnica.com)

AmiMoJo writes: In February, Facebook said it would step up enforcement of its prohibition against discrimination in advertising for housing, employment, or credit. Last week, ProPublica bought dozens of rental housing ads on Facebook but asked that they not be shown to certain categories of users, such as African-Americans,mothers of high school kids, people interested in wheelchair ramps, Jews, expats from Argentina, and Spanish speakers. All of these groups are protected under the federal Fair Housing Act. Violators can face tens of thousands of dollars in fines. Every single ad was approved within minutes. The only ad that took longer than three minutes to be approved by Facebook sought to exclude potential renters 'interested in Islam, Sunni Islam, and Shia Islam.' It was approved after 22 minutes.

197 comments

  1. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful
    I"m guessing that while it is illegal to discriminate with regard to housing to [insert minority here], it is likely NOT illegal to tune your advertising disbursement however you wish.

    I mean, if you were to put up physical fliers on telephone poles ONLY in predominately white areas of town, you are not required to put as many (or ANY) of same fliers in areas that are more black/hispanic/minority...right?

    It is against the law to discriminate against who you let sign on the dotted line, but you are not compelled to advertise that there is a dotted line available in an equal manner.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  2. So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not illegal to choose not to tell certain people that you have property you would like to rent. It's illegal not to rent to them because of their membership in a protected class, but you can't force somebody to advertise to them.

  3. Jeebuz! by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 0
    How is this even legal?

    Is Zuckerborg from Mississippi or something?

    --
    The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    1. Re:Jeebuz! by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Because it's advertising, not commerce. You can advertise your commercials only during the whitest TV show, why would the Internet be different?

    2. Re:Jeebuz! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^ This,

      They're a business trying to sell something, if they think someone white would be most likely to buy the thing, it makes financial sense to try to market to them.

    3. Re:Jeebuz! by omnichad · · Score: 2

      I suspect the financial sense thing is the reason for this policy at Facebook. They can force people to spend more advertising dollars that will be less effective all in the name of equality.

    4. Re:Jeebuz! by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      How is this even legal?

      Is Zuckerborg from Mississippi or something?

      I'm guessing the religion one might be legal - I'm pretty certain you can discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    5. Re:Jeebuz! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > You can advertise your commercials only during the whitest TV show, why would the Internet be different?

      Indirect discrimination vs direct.

      There is nothing preventing anyone from watching your "whitest TV" show.
      Though you get indirect discrimination by statistics.

      Similar for when and employer is hiring.
      If the employer asks for birth date and excludes with this, it is direct discrimination.

      If the employer asks candidate to college level CS exercises, specifically time based, a new graduate will have a statistical advantage, and the younger will have a statistical advantage. The discrimination is indirect.

    6. Re:Jeebuz! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      POTUS certainly thinks so

    7. Re:Jeebuz! by belthize · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Fair Housing act begs to differ: https://www.hud.gov/sites/docu...

      Folks can debate whether it should or should not be a law all they want, but the issue of legality is pretty clear.

      The Act very clearly covers advertising as well in section 109.5

        109.5 Policy.
        It is the policy of the United States to provide, within constitutional limitations, for fair housing
      throughout the United States. The provisions of the Fair Housing Act (42 U.S.C. 3600, et seq.)
      make it unlawful to discriminate in the sale, rental, and financing of housing, and in the provision
      of brokerage and appraisal services, because of race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status,
      or national origin. Section 804(c) of the Fair Housing Act, 42 U.S.C. 3604(c), as amended, makes
      it unlawful to make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published, any notice,
      statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling, that indicates any
      preference, limitation, or discrimination because of race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial
      status, or national origin, or an intention to make any such preference, limitation, or discrimination.
      However, the prohibitions of the act regarding familial status do not apply with respect to housing
      for older persons, as defined in section 807(b) of the act.

    8. Re:Jeebuz! by omnichad · · Score: 2

      It very clearly covers the contents of that advertising. The contents should not indicate the preference - but if the targeting is information that is not available to the consumer it is not a violation.

    9. Re:Jeebuz! by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      I really hope you're kidding or being sarcastic.

      The federally protected classes in the U.S. are, race, color, religion or creed, national origin or ancestry, sex, age, physical or mental disability, veteran status, genetic information, and citizenship.

      States may ADD to that list, but they cannot remove anything from that list.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    10. Re:Jeebuz! by belthize · · Score: 1

      Read the whole thing:

      makes it unlawful to make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published, any notice,
      statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling, that indicates any
      preference,

      'Cause to be made' and 'indicates any preference' are pretty clear. It's settled law.

      You can discriminate all you want as long as you don't voice intent, ie you just quietly don't rent to somebody or advertise on 'Duck Dynasty' but if you tell the advertiser: don't show my commercial where black people might see it you have signaled intent and are not in compliance.

    11. Re:Jeebuz! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Because it's advertising, not commerce."

      Did money exchange hands? It's commerce no matter how you try to camouflage it.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    12. Re:Jeebuz! by omnichad · · Score: 2

      Reading comprehension:

      that indicates any preference

      Sure, maybe a TV ad might not be compliant. But a Facebook ad where the targeting is completely opaque does not give anyone a way to determine an indication of preference.

    13. Re:Jeebuz! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      It *is* pretty clear, and advertising demographics is not included in said notice, statement, or advertisement, so it's not a violation.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    14. Re:Jeebuz! by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      Except that ProPublica told Facebook not to advertise to certain groups of people, as a test of Facebook's advertisement placement, and Facebook said "NO PROBLEM!"

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    15. Re:Jeebuz! by omnichad · · Score: 2

      And if those certain groups can't see the indication of preference when they see the placement of the ad, the letter of the law still holds.

    16. Re:Jeebuz! by omnichad · · Score: 1

      But not between you and the end consumer. Way to pedantically nitpick the leaves and miss the trees and forest entirely.

    17. Re:Jeebuz! by Kierthos · · Score: 1

      If Facebook complies with the targeted advertisement request, they don't see the advertisement at all.

      --
      Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
    18. Re:Jeebuz! by omnichad · · Score: 1

      I guess you ran out of actual arguments, then. They don't see the advertisement and they don't see it being advertised publicly to other groups of people (targeted advertising is relatively private). And you can only guess if race was the demographic that made the ad show or not show.

    19. Re:Jeebuz! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      It very clearly covers the contents of that advertising.

      ... and even then, it is the person placing the ad that is breaking the law, not the newspaper or website publishing it.

    20. Re:Jeebuz! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      He was talking about excluding non citizens from visiting the US. Non citizens have no right to enter the US, and the POTUS has a right to exclude them.

      http://www.nationalreview.com/...

      First of all, it's important to underline that Congress can exclude or admit any foreigner it wants, for any reason or no reason. Non-Americans have no constitutional right to travel to the United States and no constitutional due-process rights to challenge exclusion; as the Supreme Court has written multiple times, "Whatever the procedure authorized by Congress is, it is due process as far as an alien denied entry is concerned." What's more, while the president doesn't have the authority that Obama has claimed, to let in anyone he wants for any reason (under the guise of "parole"), he does have the statutory authority to keep anyone out, for any reason he thinks best. From 8 USC section 1182:

      Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate (emphasis added).

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    21. Re:Jeebuz! by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty certain you can discriminate on the basis of religious beliefs.

      No. The Fair Housing Act of 1968 specifically prohibits discrimination in housing based on religion.

      There is an exemption for housing administered by religious organizations.

    22. Re: Jeebuz! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It clearly and explicitly says CONTENT of the advertisement (ie, "no Mexicans").

      It says jack shit about where or how you post your advertisement.

      This is not illegal, or even unethical.

    23. Re: Jeebuz! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Still seems a bit dicey. If a tech firm advertises open job positions, with the constraint 'no women', I expect Facebook will fix it quick smart.

    24. Re:Jeebuz! by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      provide a source

      --
      Good-bye
    25. Re:Jeebuz! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, this is Facebook being forced to care about equality, which is why they're apologizing for this "mistake". It was never a mistake, they just hoped no one would notice.

      If I'm a company that wants to target white males, I'll use other mediums that let me target white males. If Facebook forces me to target everyone, and over half my money is wasted, then I'm not going to use Facebook. It's that simple, and Facebook knows this.

    26. Re:Jeebuz! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      I'm not missing shit, son. I READ THE FUCKING RELEVANT LAW. You apparently did not.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    27. Re:Jeebuz! by Stephan+Schulz · · Score: 1

      He was talking about excluding non citizens from visiting the US. Non citizens have no right to enter the US, and the POTUS has a right to exclude them.

      http://www.nationalreview.com/...

      [...]

      The National Review is great at cheerleading Trump, but it is not a qualified or reliable source for legal questions.

      --

      Stephan

    28. Re:Jeebuz! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      Actually the National Review is pretty much the in house journal of Never Trump Republicans.

      https://www.politico.com/story...

      Still that doesn't make the law they cite any less real.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    29. Re:Jeebuz! by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Reading may imply comprehension, but you prove that it does not mean comprehension.

    30. Re:Jeebuz! by sexconker · · Score: 1

      As others have pointed out, this deals with the content of the ad, not the placement of the ad.
      Further, this is all "within constitutional limitations". You can't compel speech by forcing someone to place an ad in specific publications, locations, etc.

    31. Re:Jeebuz! by Khyber · · Score: 1

      Apparently you failed, too.

      "Section 804(c) of the Fair Housing Act, 42 U.S.C. 3604(c), as amended, makes
      it unlawful to make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published, any notice,
      statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling, that indicates any
      preference, limitation, or discrimination because of race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial
      status, or national origin, or an intention to make any such preference, limitation, or discrimination."

      To wit: Here's the whole fucking text.

      Try again when you actually have a brain, shill-bitch. This statute makes discriminatory advertising with regards to housing illegal as well.

      You apparently didn't even bother finding and reading the relevant law, you fuckwit.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    32. Re:Jeebuz! by barbariccow · · Score: 1

      The law says you cannot advertise like "White's only here." With the exception that you can advertise for senior living. They are not saying where you can PUT the ads, or how you distribute them, just the content therein.

    33. Re:Jeebuz! by barbariccow · · Score: 1

      Both actually. It even explicitly uses the word "publish." But it's a moot point because the content of the ad does not violate discrimination laws.

    34. Re:Jeebuz! by jaa101 · · Score: 1

      Just because the ad itself doesn't say "no blacks" is not enough. The advertisers said "no blacks" to Facebook and that's a "statement" that they "made" and so *is* a violation.

    35. Re:Jeebuz! by jaa101 · · Score: 1

      The advertisers made a statement that they wanted to discriminate. That's clearly a violation of the regulation. There's no requirement for the statement to be made to potential customers; making a statement to your advertiser is clearly covered. You could say to your wife "I don't want to rent our place out to any blacks" and that would be a violation too.

    36. Re:Jeebuz! by omnichad · · Score: 1

      The law only covers the contents of advertising that "indicates preference." If a customer can readily determine that there was a preference, that's the same as it being in the contents of the ad.

      making a statement to your advertiser is clearly covered

      Nothing about the words in the law says this.

    37. Re:Jeebuz! by jaa101 · · Score: 1

      The law says "To make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published any notice, statement, or advertisement". It doesn't just say "publish", it also says "make". It doesn't just say "advertisement" it also says "statement". So if I "make" a "statement" then that is covered by this law.

    38. Re:Jeebuz! by omnichad · · Score: 1

      And if Facebook is offended by those statements, then they can sue. They would be the only valid claimant, since that is who they are making the statement to.

    39. Re:Jeebuz! by jaa101 · · Score: 1

      And if Facebook is offended by those statements, then they can sue. They would be the only valid claimant, since that is who they are making the statement to.

      Just like, if you murder me, I'm the only one who can sue you for murder.

      Or, maybe, the government has some kind of enforcement apparatus which will go after you. Maybe there's even a difference between civil and criminal law.

    40. Re:Jeebuz! by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Maybe there's even a difference between civil and criminal law.

      You're right. And this one is civil law.

    41. Re:Jeebuz! by jaa101 · · Score: 1

      Which doesn't affect the ability of state and federal agencies, e.g., HUD, to penalise landlords in cases like this one. Even advocacy organisations like ProPublica can have standing to do this.

    42. Re:Jeebuz! by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      I really hope you're kidding or being sarcastic.

      Neither. I honestly did not know which is why I said "I'm guessing" and "I'm pretty certain", instead of "I know" or "I'm certain". Poster elsethread posted a reference for the religion/housing thing.

      The federally protected classes in the U.S. are, race, color, religion or creed, national origin or ancestry, sex, age, physical or mental disability, veteran status, genetic information, and citizenship.

      States may ADD to that list, but they cannot remove anything from that list.

      I'd like to see a reference for this. I don't see how "national origin" or "genetic information" can be protected classes.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    43. Re:Jeebuz! by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      Read the whole thing:

      makes it unlawful to make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published, any notice, statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling, that indicates any preference,

      'Cause to be made' and 'indicates any preference' are pretty clear. It's settled law.

      You can discriminate all you want as long as you don't voice intent, ie you just quietly don't rent to somebody or advertise on 'Duck Dynasty' but if you tell the advertiser: don't show my commercial where black people might see it you have signaled intent and are not in compliance.

      Well what do you propose? That we force facebook to remove targeted ads?

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    44. Re: Jeebuz! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The statute criminalizes the behavior. Since it's a criminal matter, there doesn't have to be a plaintiff showing particularized injury for the state to still prosecute. This is forst semester law school stuff.

    45. Re: Jeebuz! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take 10 seconds to type "protected classes" into Google, then after you have taken a half day to review the thousands of readily available statutory and case law sources, shove them up tour lazy, bigoted ass.

  4. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Better to have white male gun nuts and white male pedophiles.

  5. Only one of them makes sense (in some situations) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you are renting a 3rd floor apartment in a building without an elevator, then people interested in wheelchair ramps probably also aren't interested in your apartment.

  6. race is a bourgeois construct... by originalGMC · · Score: 1, Informative

    ...and if you make any distinction surrounding race at all, you sir or madam are a racist. I think it is high time we start classifying people as human and move the fuck on. Race is a poor data point; it assumes much and provides little knowledge. It is intrinsically unfair. Just stop using it. Strike it from all forms, all databases, and all modalities of information sharing and hopefully within a generation or two, it will only exist in history books.

    1. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      On Facebook profiles, I'm pretty sure it's optional and self-reported. Nobody's forcing them to fill it in.

    2. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tagged images. They don't rely on self-reported content in the values they actually use.

    3. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by Baron_Yam · · Score: 1

      The best I can say about you is you have the courage of your convictions.

      I wouldn't want someone like you in my country, though.

    4. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by omnichad · · Score: 1

      When and how has anyone tagged someone as a certain race on FB?

    5. Re: race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, when Marxists call people racists its like Christians calling people heathens, Muslims calling people kuffar, scientologists calling people suppressive etc. It only makes sense inside of a particular ideological paradigm. Outside of those paradigms they are meaningless. In this case a racist is merely someone who rejects neomarxist orthodoxy.

      As far as race being a construct, you are wrong. You may believe it to be true, you may wish it to be true, you may think it's better if we pretend it's true, but it's not. Race is real, and to deny that is to deny evolution.

    6. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I classify people and idiots like yo as two UNRELATED species

    7. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This actually requires explaining?

      Someone tags you in an image. Facebook has a host of pattern recognition programs (facial recognition is one of them), which identify various traits in the image. Skin tone, setting, nearby items, lots of things. The script saves a list of these traits in the unseen data for your account (weighted by prevalence and image count). If that wasn't enough, it looks at anyone tagged as family, and sees what they have in both explicit and hidden records.

      Slashdot has had plenty of stories on the existence of shadow accounts on Facebook, and how they have more information than you can fill in as a user, do you actually believe that they delete the excess just because you make an account?

    8. Re: race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Similarly, when nazis call people Marxists its like Christians calling people heathens, Muslims calling people kuffar, scientologists calling people suppressive etc. It only makes sense inside of a particular ideological paradigm.

    9. Re: race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm the AC above and I just want to say sorry about my post. I don't know why I posted something so stupid, I was just being a twat.

    10. Re: race is a bourgeois construct... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Whether it is real or not (whatever that means) all should be free.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    11. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      ...and if you make any distinction surrounding race at all, you sir or madam are a racist. I think it is high time we start classifying people as human and move the fuck on. Race is a poor data point; it assumes much and provides little knowledge. It is intrinsically unfair. Just stop using it. Strike it from all forms, all databases, and all modalities of information sharing and hopefully within a generation or two, it will only exist in history books.

      I guess they should stop making hair and skin products targeted towards blacks, since that is racial....right?

      Get with it, there *ARE* some differences in all the races. Some have genetic predispositions for illnesses, and some for physical advantages over others.

      There are deep intrinsic cultural differences that are largely apparent within different racial communities.

      Saying everyone is the same...is voluntarily blinding yourself to how the real world exists.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    12. Re: race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, then Iâ(TM)m a racist. Tough shit.

      I call bullshit on your assertion that race is poor data point. It happens to be an excellent data point, and if you donâ(TM)t believe that I suggest you look at demographic statistics for crime rates, academic achievement, economic achievement, etc. There are few other metrics with predictive value as consistent as race. Tell me a schoolâ(TM)s ranking, and I can tell you with a good deal of confidence what itâ(TM)s racial make-up is.

    13. Re: race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you know what bourgeois means?

    14. Re: race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free to rent my property to whomever I please? Free like that?

    15. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by djinn6 · · Score: 1

      The best I can say about you is you have the courage of your convictions.

      I wouldn't want someone like you in my country, though.

      Sounds like you're advocating for thought police.

    16. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...and if you make any distinction surrounding race at all, you sir or madam are a racist. I think it is high time we start classifying people as human and move the fuck on. Race is a poor data point; it assumes much and provides little knowledge. It is intrinsically unfair. Just stop using it. Strike it from all forms, all databases, and all modalities of information sharing and hopefully within a generation or two, it will only exist in history books.

      Race can act as a very efficient and accurate shorthand for a multitude of physical characteristics.

      If I needed to provide a physical description of a suspect to the police, I would START with the race of the suspect.
      e.g. "A Caucasian male, about 5' 10", 150-160 lbs..."

      In this context, race is a highly valuable piece of information. It means the police can focusing on people with light colored skin and stop wasting time on investigating people with dark colored skin. Another nice thing is that race doesn't have to be a perfect match. Getting close enough is often more than sufficient for most situations.

    17. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen -- let's get gender the fuck out of the equation as well.

    18. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The alt-right is strong in this one.

    19. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by chronoglass · · Score: 1

      There are deep intrinsic cultural differences that are largely apparent within different racial communities.

      ...

      this is where ya lost me. tying "race" to culture, they are entirely unrelated.

      humans, people, on the whole all want/need the same basic stuff. Our cultures can separate us, but we are the same race. a bulldog and a lab, are both dogs. this "race" thing comes about because of the perception that "whitey" is a horse, and "blackey" is a donkey.. and it's bull.

    20. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      Saying everyone is the same...is voluntarily blinding yourself to how the real world exists.

      And understanding that everyone is different, but still doing your best to treat them equally is the basis of a fair and just society. But that doesn't seem to matter to you - just because people are different seems to make you think that it's OK to discriminate.

      --
      That is all.
    21. Re:race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The genetic distance between sub-Saharan Africans and non-Africans is greater than between chimps and bonobos, the two closest living species to the supposedly monolithic human species. By the standards we apply even to the species closest to us, Blacks and Whites are two different species. The last common ancestor of Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans was about 200,000 years ago and since then they have undergone increasingly stringent natural, social, and sexual selection in radically different environments as well as genetic drift. They have genetically different distributions of temperaments and intelligence, as well as metabolism and anatomy.

    22. Re: race is a bourgeois construct... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These "stats" are an outright lie. Genetic variation among human populations is 0.1%. Between chimps and bonobos, it is 1.3-1.6%.

      Crawl in a hole and die, racist.

  7. Just wondering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am NOT a FaceBook used..

    But when you sign up, do you have to tell them your race, or religion?

    1. Re:Just wondering by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't matter. You probably need to do the reading on data mining.

      Facebook will look at what you read, who you're friends with, post content, your location. They will compare that to a jillion other idiots and make a very accurate guess about your race, socioeconomic status, political views, etc. They don't need you to specifically tell them anything, you leak information. Hell, people tend to lie on surveys to make themselves look better, so it's more accurate for them to guess.

  8. look at the bright side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    most rental apartments have a covenant: "no slashdot subscribers" and facebook can enforce that easily.

  9. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When you really get down to it, stereotyping is the big problem that leads to divisive hate.

  10. FB Trolling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Facebook "advertisers" trolling has only increased since the last election IMO. A friend of mine shared recently an ad that was injected into his newsfeed (from some site called Wish) that was essentially a picture of a small ziploc back filled with white powder, and a large straw. WTF? I've also seen "ads" that appear to be simply there to disturb people playing to their paranoias and delusions. Facebook has no mechanism for reporting abuse of the advertisements. I suppose the line between "fucking someone up in the head so they buy your product" and "fucking someone up in the head because you can" isn't distinct enough for them to care. After all, we're the "dumb fucks" who trust them, right zuckface?

  11. My property by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I should be free to decide to whom I want to rent it to on any criteria I damn well please.

    1. Re:My property by johanw · · Score: 0

      You are free, it may only not be wise to tell it openly.

    2. Re:My property by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are perfectly free, as long as you claim to be liberal.

      Conservative not selling cake to gay wedding -> Sued into oblivion.
      Liberal Twitter censoring accounts based on non-liberal view -> Cheered in the streets by liberals
      Harvard admitting blacks and denying Asians based on race -> Cheered in the streets by liberals

      Not sure why you think racism is fine from most people, but horrible from others. I guess its the same as accused sexual predators from Alabama are not fit to be in Congress, but ACTUAL sexual predators already in Congress are fine if they have a D next to their name.

      You keep this up and someone like Trump will get elected to be president one day.

    3. Re:My property by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I should be free to punch you in the face.

    4. Re: My property by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah the virtuous violence of Marxists knows no bounds.

    5. Re:My property by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Woah, calm down there with calling out "progressives" - you don't want them shooting up a baseball practice or a concert or a church, now.

    6. Re:My property by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Care to inform us what the Asian wanted to talk about?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Housing law has a more expansive definition of discrimination than that for other types of commerce.

    Selective advertising can definitely be considered illegal discrimination. It can be hard to prove, but in this case it's pretty easy to demonstrate.

  13. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by rickb928 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    However, if you're looking to upgrade your rent, and know that flyers are a good way to find those gems, you can mostly drive through the neighborhoods you aspire to live in and find them.

    On Facebook, if the ad is not distributed to you for whatever reason, you'll never know.

    And that is the difference. A better RL analogy would be to find store owners or others hosting physical bulletin boards shooing away those they deem 'undesirable', rather than letting them see ads for anything they or their posters wish not seen by the 'undesirable'.

    And that's plainly illegal. So should it be on Facebook. It's obvious discrimination.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  14. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    'white male' does not exclude handicapped, nor Jew, nor Muslim. Close, though.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  15. Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    cause iz donzt wants to rentz to any whities.

  16. Of COURSE they do! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Those guys are their CUSTOMERS!

    And they PAY for being r-a-a-cist!

    FB's SJW ways go out the window when money matters.

    1. Re:Of COURSE they do! by MikeDataLink · · Score: 1

      FB's SJW ways go out the window when money matters.

      Or maybe they just created a social media platform and advertising system and they expect law enforcement to enforce the laws... you know, since enforcing laws is not their business. Should Wal-Mart now also make sure criminals aren't purchasing crowbars?

      --
      Mike @ The Geek Pub. Let's Make Stuff!
  17. Good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Freedom of association is a Human Right!

  18. Chasing advertiser dollars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Something that "Chaos Monkeys: Obscene Fortune and Random Failure in Silicon Valley" makes clear when Facebook set up their advertising system.

    1. Re: Chasing advertiser dollars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Creimer affiliate spam. Mod down.

  19. On break for lunch? by fgouget · · Score: 5, Funny

    The only ad that took longer than three minutes to be approved by Facebook sought to exclude potential renters 'interested in Islam, Sunni Islam, and Shia Islam.' It was approved after 22 minutes.

    The reviewer was on break for lunch?

    1. Re:On break for lunch? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Maybe he was on break for salaat?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  20. Target advertisiing? by Phydeaux · · Score: 1

    At no point did the ads say they wouldn't rent to the people they weren't targeting. If the rental process came to the final decision and people were excluded based on race, religion, gender, etc then there would be a case. At this point, it's an advertiser looking to target a specific type of people their marketing has identified as being the best audience for their product. Do you see adds for Pokemon during the evening news, ads for high blood pressure medication during Saturday morning cartoons? No, because it would be a waste of advertising money as your target audience is not in those groups. While I understand Pro Publica wrote the initial article, ArsTechnica shouldn't have run it. They need to not be in the identity politics game. Once you chose a side with an article like this, you're in it for life, and that's not their business model. Unfortunately, it appears Ars is being converged and it's a sure sign to find a new source of tech news and information. With crap like this, Taylor Swift is looking smarter and smarter each day.

    1. Re:Target advertisiing? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Furthermore, they may want to advertise to each group with a targeted ad. For instance, a graphic with a mom, dad and a baby for the newly married.

  21. Fair Housing Act by sqorbit · · Score: 2

    According to this link http://civilrights.findlaw.com... A landlord must treat every tenant equally. Illegal discrimination occurs when the landlord: -Includes preferences or limitations in a rental advertisement - Denies the availability of a available rental dwelling or steers renters to a certain area based on race The Fair Housing Act covers both tenants and prospective tenants. I would think those two points are pretty clear that Facebook is doing something illegal.

    --
    Sent from my TARDIS
    1. Re:Fair Housing Act by xous · · Score: 2

      No, I would argue that landlords configuring their ads to match the values are the violating the act.

      The act says "landlords" not advertisers acting on behalf of landlords.

      Check the rental ads on Craigslist or other platforms and you'll find most ads are in violation of the fair housing act.

    2. Re:Fair Housing Act by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      I think it's pretty clear that Facebook isn't doing anything illegal with respect to these requirements, if not for any other reason than Facebook apparently not being the landlord in question.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Fair Housing Act by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      I would think those two points are pretty clear that Facebook is doing something illegal.

      No, they're not. Because they're not renting properties to anybody. They're not even in that business. They're just allowing advertisers to shape where their ad money gets spent. If that same rental agent is (as they almost certainly are) also listing the rental in a dozen other places - like various apartment-finding apps/sites, etc - there are going to be prospective renters checking out the property from numerous directions. If the LANDLORD discriminates against those who actually contact them about the property, then that's where the laws kick in. Not paying to show an ad to somebody based on statistics or instincts about where that advertising money is best spent on a social media outlet is NOT the same as turning away somebody from a rental based on their demographics.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    4. Re:Fair Housing Act by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      A landlord must treat every tenant equally.

      There is no legal requirement that every tenant be treated equally. The laws bans certain forms of discrimination based on a specific list of criteria. If you want to discriminate on other criteria, such as refusing to rent to people with nose rings, then you can do so.

      I would think those two points are pretty clear that Facebook is doing something illegal.

      Unlikely. The FHA restricts what landlords can do. It does not restrict what publishers can do. If a landlord places a discriminatory ad in a newspaper, it is the landlord that broke the law, not the newspaper.

    5. Re:Fair Housing Act by sabbede · · Score: 2

      At first glance, yeah, but consider this: If you extend that logic, why was the Silk Road taken down? Why can't I advertise great deals on bricks of cocaine on Facebook?

    6. Re:Fair Housing Act by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Probably because selling cocaine tends to be illegal under any conditions? Housing as such isn't - that is, unless you're using those cocaine bricks on sale as building material.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:Fair Housing Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Facebook is NOT the landload. FB is the medium of advertising. It's ProPublic that are the bigoted bastards. How dare they limit their ads in this way.

    8. Re:Fair Housing Act by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      Illegal discrimination occurs when the landlord:
        - Includes preferences or limitations in a rental advertisement
        - Denies the availability of a available rental dwelling or steers renters to a certain area based on race

      Which of the above prohibitions do you think targeted advertising violates, and how?
        - The advertisements include no preferences or limitations.
        - Not showing someone an ad for a rental is not at all the same thing as denying that a rental is available if they affirmatively ask.
        - The advertisements don't tell potential renters to rent from them because of the racial makeup of the neighborhood.

      I really don't see how this fits.

    9. Re:Fair Housing Act by jaa101 · · Score: 1

      Because the law reads makes it illegal "to make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published, any notice, statement, or advertisement". The advertisement itself was fine, but ProPublic "made" a "statement" to Facebook that they wanted to discriminate, so that's illegal.

    10. Re:Fair Housing Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are renting out a building you occupy or a room in a house/apartment then you have increased discrimination abilities.

    11. Re:Fair Housing Act by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is settled case law. There have been lawsuits over this and if you purposely place an ad in a location to attract a specific type of tenant you can be found guilty of discrimination if someone sues you. The thing is almost no one sues because that group never sees the ad. You can argue that you didn't realize only a specific group visited that spot or that you ran out of funds to place the ad everywhere, but when you specifically tell someone to put it in regions that show to group A and not group B then you've just hung yourself in terms of the law.

      You can follow statistics or your instincts for ad placement, so long as either of those can't be shown to be discriminatory to one of the protected classes.

      ~A landlord

    12. Re:Fair Housing Act by SlaveToTheGrind · · Score: 1

      I guess since you've moved on to a new topic, you agree there wasn't an issue under OP's criteria. It's like swatting flies sometimes.

      I take your quote to be a selective excerpt from 42 U.S.C. 3604(c):

      (c) To make, print, or publish, or cause to be made, printed, or published any notice, statement, or advertisement, with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling that indicates any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status, or national origin, or an intention to make any such preference, limitation, or discrimination.

      Now, considering the full statutory language, how does this situation meet it? The "notice, statement, or advertisement" must itself "indicate[] any preference, limitation, or discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, handicap, familial status, or national origin, or an intention to make any such preference, limitation, or discrimination" "with respect to the sale or rental of a dwelling." That's not the case here.

      Ticking a box saying you would like to focus your advertising dollars on people who have not ticked a box of their own expressing an "affinity" with certain demographics is not tantamount to saying you refuse to rent to someone who actually is a member of a protected group, or that you intend to refuse to do so.

    13. Re:Fair Housing Act by jaa101 · · Score: 1

      I'm arguing that ticking the box is a notice or a statement that indicates a preference based on race. You can tick a box that says don't show this ad to black people and that's the problem. You say:

      The "notice, statement, or advertisement" must itself "indicate[] any preference, limitation, or discrimination

      but I take issue with your use of the word "itself." That's nowhere in the code you cite and, anyway, there are two things going on here. The hypothetical landlord can say "Dear FaceBook: show this ad only to white folks" and provide the ad saying "I'm happy to rent this property to anyone". The advertisement is clearly fine, but the statement to FaceBook is in violation.

  22. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Interesting
    But to your analogy, it isn't putting it up on a big public bulletin board and shoo'ing away.

    It is more like only putting it on bulletin boards in stores that serve potential customers/renters of the demographic you believe to be more suitable for your property (salary, dependability, potential social problems, etc).

    In this case of FB...I believe they charge by ad, and how many folks it goes out to...right?

    If that's the case, then the customer is wanting to only spend as little advertising $$ and possible, and therefore spend the limited advertising targeted towards those that he feels would be his best potential market.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  23. Targeted Advertising by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This whole issue reads quite differently when phrased differently. I'm not sure what is really going on here, and don't condone any type of racism, but consider an alternate interpretation. Something like "ProPublica uses machine learning algorithm to focus advertising dollars on high ROI cohorts". After all, one might be able to make the same claim about any company who advertises during the Grey's Anatomy time slot compared to those who advertise during SWAT. If we juxtapose those demographics and uncover sharper differences, who are we to condemn? The point being that there is no accusation about actually rejecting housing applications from certain demographics.

    1. Re:Targeted Advertising by sabbede · · Score: 1

      Under the Fair Housing Act, it's illegal to restrict who you advertise too on the basis of race, religion,etc., so if you define your high ROI cohorts according to those factors you'll be in trouble. If instead you define your target audience according to income, I think that would pass muster unless it was de facto racial discrimination. Like if in the local market no person of color earned over $40k/year and you only advertise to people making $41k and up. Though intent may be hard to prove, especially if the fair market value of the property is more than someone making $40k could afford.

  24. Re:Only one of them makes sense (in some situation by Kierthos · · Score: 1

    But if you're renting out a lot of properties, and you're deliberately excluding handicapped people because they're handicapped, you're violating the FHA.

    There is a difference between "this apartment is not handicapped accessible" and "we do not rent to handicapped people".

    --
    Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
  25. Re:Only one of them makes sense (in some situation by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

    In Great Society 2.0, governrment rewards law firms that find violations in small businesses. This is why you may have seen two railings on stairs, because the original one was a few inches too high or low, and a law firm found it and made the business pay them $11,947 as a violation finders' reward.

    --
    (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
  26. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

    So you can't publish housing ads in a magazine almost exclusively read by older men, because young women would be excluded? Or you'd have to *also* advertise in a magazine read by young women as well? I don't see how advertising could work at all under such conditions.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  27. Of course they still do it by Khyber · · Score: 1

    The fine they would get would be small in comparison to the advertising revenue they're getting, so there's no reason to stop breaking the law.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  28. Common Before Facebook - Post office by FeelGood314 · · Score: 1

    Those great discount credit card offers you get in the mail aren't sent to everyone. The credit card company bought a profile of your neighbourhood from a credit bureau before mailing them out.

    1. Re:Common Before Facebook - Post office by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your credit score, payment history, and many of the other attributes they use aren't covered by housing discrimination laws. There's only a small set of things which are illegal to discriminate. Then there's an even smaller set under general federal laws. Unless those credit card offers come with a new house, they don't have to follow housing discrimination laws.

  29. What's the big fucking deal bitch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honestly, if someone doesn't want blacks, whites, or muslims in their house I don't see the big deal.
    I don't want to rent to students because they always fuck up your house, and you basically have to rip it all out and rebuild when they leave.
    Is that somehow wrong too?

    1. Re: What's the big fucking deal bitch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Short answer yes.

      But, you can deny them for OTHER reasons. Also, set your down payment/security deposit higher so you can reclaim some of that money if they do fuck it up.

      I had a friend get denied because of his "credit". He was black. 750 credit score. We all know why he was denied, but he can't prove it. They said they want atleast a 780. I doubt it.

    2. Re: What's the big fucking deal bitch? by sabbede · · Score: 1

      I don't think he would need to prove it, just report it. Unless he's a prosecutor for HUD, in which case it could be his job. That's a good credit score, and "but we want 780" smells fishy as hell.

  30. So we could just say by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In February, Facebook said it would step up enforcement of its prohibition against discrimination in advertising

    but hasn't

    1. Re:So we could just say by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Did they say when?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  31. Cities Still Let Residents Exclude By Race! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By having a sidewalk on both sides of a street, it is possible for one resident to potentially determine the race of another and cross the street. This design facilitates overt otherism and needs to be outlawed.

  32. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Kierthos · · Score: 1

    No, you can, because while the magazine may be read almost exclusively by older men, nothing is preventing anyone else from reading the magazine.

    In this case, however, ProPublica wanted to see how Facebook would respond to an advertisement placement wherein it was requested that the advertisement would not be shown to (for example), Jews.

    Facebook admitted last year that they had a problem with this sort of thing, and they were correcting it.

    And yet most of these advertisements were approved in 3 minutes.

    --
    Mr. Hu is not a ninja.
  33. this bugs me but for a different reason by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    Back in the 90s, Colorado had our infamous amendment 2. It basically said that state and local gov could not forbid this kinds of actions and that ppl would have no legal recourse. However, that version was after the far right got a hold of it. The ORIGINAL version said that for roommates, landlords owning 4 or less properties, or businesses smaller than 12 employees, COULD discriminate in this fashion, BUT, that all others COULD not. IOW, if you worked for a company where it was possible to move you away from idiots, then you should not be discriminated against.
    Likewise, for a roommate situation, the last thing I would want to do is move into a place in which the roomie HATES me from the gitgo. That will make for a nightmare situation
    The ability to place that Ad should be similar. If it is roomate or small ownership, then by all means, allow somebody to avoid getting into bad situations.
    BUT, with medium to large businesses, absolutely NOT.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:this bugs me but for a different reason by phorm · · Score: 1

      Roomates or co-living is one situation where - to some extent - making some allowances makes sense. Generally if you're sharing close living quarters, it makes sense that people would want to be of either different genders or orientations.

    2. Re:this bugs me but for a different reason by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      the same can be said of small businesses. Look, If I employ say 5 ppl and somebody tell me that he is gay and another person is ripping into him, there is NOTHING that I can do, save fire the one guy, OR simply let the gay guy go.
      OTOH, if I am a big business, and there are serious issues, esp if I like them both in terms of their work, I will simply shift one of them elsewhere.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:this bugs me but for a different reason by phorm · · Score: 1

      Uh, as a business you can do a fair bit. As you mentioned, you care fire the aggressor, or at least warn him that he's going to be in the unemployment line unless he cuts the bullshit out. There's really *NO* need for any employee to rip into another, exempting where somebody fucked up royally at a job-related task. That's why you're the boss. It's a privilege and a responsibility.

  34. So waiit.... what? by mark-t · · Score: 1

    It's possible to get Facebook to give someone LESS ads if they can convince Facebook that they are a minority that should be excluded from certain types of ads?

    If anything, I'd say that's discriminatory against people who don't fall into a minority category.

    So.... how does one get Facebook to think that you are a minority?

    1. Re:So waiit.... what? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That's actually I good question: How do I get Facebook to think I'm (minority group) so advertisers don't pester me?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  35. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

    Selective advertising can definitely be considered illegal discrimination. It can be hard to prove, but in this case it's pretty easy to demonstrate.

    Discrimination in housing was banned by the Fair Housing Act of 1968, which prohibits discriminatory language in ads, but does not specifically prohibit targeted advertising. There may be case law that makes it effectively illegal. It certainly goes on all the time: The Chinese and Vietnamese newspapers in my city (San Jose) have plenty of housing ads written in those languages. But there is nothing in the act that puts the onus on publishers to enforce the law. Facebook may be violating their own stated policies, but they are not doing anything illegal.

  36. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    White dudes with guns are far more dangerous, but suggest banning them from moving into a nice area and suddenly the shrieks of discrimination would be overwhelming.

  37. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

    I swear, if the real estate industry spent half as much effort doing their job as they did making sure races stay apart, we'd have a whole new housing bubble meltdown on our hands...

  38. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

    White dudes with guns are far more dangerous

    How do you figure?

    Citations?

    If you look it up, I think you'll actually find that most non-suicide gun deaths are handgun deaths, and these are largely gang related which is generally non-caucasian on non-caucasian crime.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  39. Let's look at reality here by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    What this does is save the potential renter time. Because if some bigot doesn't want to rent his apartment to someone who is (insert person group here) he WILL find an excuse not to. And there is no law that could even possible force anyone to rent a certain apartment to someone specific. This isn't a bar where more than one person at the same time gets in where you can easily point at discrimination when he's turned away while some other person not belonging to the same group get in.

    In other words, even if they are prejudiced, you'll have a hard time proving it.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Let's look at reality here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't the constitution allow freedom of association? Could it not be interpreted such that if a private person or company only wants a specific people(s) that is fine?

      Ignoring the fact(for example) that blacks commit 6x more crime and are over 20x more likely to kill a white person than a white person is to kill a black and soooo many other hard data points that justifies avoiding 'some'.

    2. Re:Let's look at reality here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, even if they are prejudiced, you'll have a hard time proving it.

      Also, what many people fail to understand, is that small-time owner-occupied dwellings are exempt from many regulations. I haven't checked in a while, but 4 units or less with the owner living on premises means the owner can discriminate however they want. The laws and HUD are targeted at large developments and such.

    3. Re:Let's look at reality here by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Yeah, those blacks, why don't they go to some Ivy League school and become bankers or corporate leaders like the good white collar criminals?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  40. Rights of a property owner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If I donâ(TM)t want to rent out to lesser races then I shouldnâ(TM)t be forced to. Why would I want blacks committing crime and not paying rent? Why would I want Muslims blowing the place up? Why would I want Mexicans stinking the place up and being lazy bums?

    Rent only to hard working whites!

  41. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, you fucking moron.. It's not like that at all. You just made shit up.

    Nobody has been "shooed" away, which is the crux of your retarded argument. They were never there to begin with.

    The closest analogy to what you want is for an advertiser to be forced to put a flyer on every single telephone pole, instead of telephone poles of their choosing.

    This is clearly fucking stupid, and only fools like AmiMojo or yourself can't comprehend it.

  42. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Uhh what?

    White males are 17 times less likely to commit a violent crime compared to black males.

    You are a fucking imbecile.

  43. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do facebook even know who is jewish, and who is black and who is from Argentina?

  44. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have one word for you: bigot.

  45. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    Housing is a special case. It's so integral to people's lives, it represents such an important opportunity for them in terms of affecting their quality of life, it gets some special protection. It's also a commonly used tool for creating segregation and deliberate discrimination.

    Housing is an area where the market fails. The most profit is made by causing social problems, i.e. to the detriment of the rest of society. As such, most places have extra levels of regulation.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  46. So? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Advertisement laws should *protect* consumers, like children, but can we really tell people who they can advertise to? It's not hurting anyone.

  47. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just got my real estate license this year. The 90 hours worth of pre-classes are about 20% useful information to know as a realtor and 80% "here are the many different ways you can be sued." The Fair Housing stuff was pretty intense as well. They cover all of the major stuff that makes the news, but I was shocked at the level of detail.

    If a customer walks into your office and you offer them a cup of coffee and then another customer of a protected class walks in and you forget to offer them a cup...that's a violation. Because of that, all of these offices just put up "help yourself" style stations for coffee/water, etc.

    I remember having past dealing with real estate agents and just feeling like they weren't all that helpful...most of the reason for that is paranoia about how many things can get you sued. You're basically signing up to hold confidential information indefinitely, go through with lots of due diligence, pay annually for training and try not to say anything that can get you sued. It's crazy.

  48. Because! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Social Justice!

  49. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    Topics read by the user regularly
    I.P. location

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  50. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by SirSlud · · Score: 1

    The medium makes it different. Anybody can read that magazine and see those ads. In Facebook's case, the technology is such that just anybody CANNOT see those ads. You might have a decent argument if the publisher of that magazine had a reliable way of ensuring that young women who wanted to read that magazine were physically obstructed from doing so.

    Facebook anonymizes the targeting parameters for advertising, but on the serving end, they're not showing ads when older men are *likely* to be reading, they're serving ads to people they actually know are only older men (to a reliable enough degree that it's true for all intents and purposes.)

    --
    "Old man yells at systemd"
  51. Natural ad-blocker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Cool, so all I have to do to get rid of all ads on Facebook is to transform into a hispanic black muslim white jewish low-income transvestite parent of juveniles?

    Consider it done!

  52. Targeted advert is crucial to FB's business model by CrankyOldEngineer · · Score: 1

    This challenges the very business model of all social networking sites. Their revenue comes from targeted advertising. Are some types of targeting illegal then? Who decides which types? This could be a disaster for Zuckerberg.

    --
    COE
  53. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 0

    Furthermore...if I wanted to sell 'fro pics or some other stereotypically black-oriented product, why would I want to waste my advertising dollars on bald middle-aged white men? If I wanted to sell skis or roller skates, why would I waste my advertising dollars on wheelchair users? And I'm pretty sure I'm not going to get any bites trying to sell crucifixes to Jews and Muslims, or Star of David necklaces or menorah candles to Catholics and Muslims.

    Housing discrimination is bad, I suppose, but affirmative action in advertising is stupid and evil.

  54. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by cayenne8 · · Score: 0

    It's also a commonly used tool for creating segregation and deliberate discrimination.

    I don't really believe there are that many (if any at all meaningful) external forces that impose segregation in housing communities.

    It seems more tribe mentality, that people like and prefer to live with people that look and act and believe similarly to themselves.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  55. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 2

    No, you fucking moron.. It's not like that at all. You just made shit up.

    Nobody has been "shooed" away, which is the crux of your retarded argument. They were never there to begin with.

    The closest analogy to what you want is for an advertiser to be forced to put a flyer on every single telephone pole, instead of telephone poles of their choosing.

    This is clearly fucking stupid, and only fools like AmiMojo or yourself can't comprehend it.

    Anyone who spends their time worrying about their standing in the protected class Olympics is a fool and probably can't comprehend it. They live their lives with chips on their shoulders and can even look at the absolute poverty in Appalachia and still see "white privilege".

  56. Why is this Facebook's responsibility? by zifn4b · · Score: 1

    Let's say I have a property for rent and I discriminate against protected class tenants on Slashdot in a posting, is Slashdot responsible and accountable for advocating this behavior in court? I think not. If someone knows different, provide specific evidence for your claim.

    --
    We'll make great pets
  57. easy answer -- accept all, filter privately by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the easy answer is accept able applicants and filter privately. duh.

    HR has been doing that for 50 years + and male/female dating via Darwinian methods has been doing that for 30,000 years plus.

    a neighbor of mine was leasing a building, and the trolls for a local ADA advocacy legal group came buy with a service dog and came in.. little did he know he was being tricked and trapped into their game to see if they could sue him for discrimination because of a service dog... it was close but he said thank you and did not accept their application or return their call... there.. oh.. i must have lost your number...

  58. Every other category of exclusion by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every other category of exclusion and add targeting is ethically problematic as well except for the one that means interested in my product. Racism is on only the tip of the spear for what facebook has to offer.

  59. Let's target real racism by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

    Advertisers would sell to their own worst enemies if they could make a buck off of it.

    If a company doesn't want to promote itself to a specific ethnicity it is most likely because they don't think the target wants to buy anything.

    If that is true, both sides are better off.

    Hiring, marriage, cliches ... those are different stories.

  60. I'm claiming every race!! Does that mean Im exempt by edris90 · · Score: 1

    Ads are like weeds. Keep em out civilized areas. If we want to see them we know where to look.

  61. Did they try Dentists? Anti-Dentite bastards! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What, no discrimination against Dentists? Next they'll be saying they should have their own schools!

    Perhaps ProPublica shouldn't be discriminating in asking to place the ads in the first place! It's bad enough the government can act as 'thought police', we don't need FB to do their job for them. If ProPublica wants to be outed as discriminatory bastards that's up to them, we can stay away from anything & everything they are part of (parent companies etc.). Thanks for outing yourself ProPublica.

  62. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It doesnt even exclude african.

  63. 22 minutes by hAckz0r · · Score: 1

    I guess they wanted to make sure all the FB doors were locked and alarmed before approving that one?

  64. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is why i try to tip the scales and only rent to large breasted women with the ghetto booty.
    No need to call me a hero, I'm just trying to do what's right.

  65. NOAH DRAPER IS A TROLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Check his posting history. You'll see plejty of trolling. Them mod him down to -1 to help stop his trolling.

  66. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When my parents grew up there were signs in their apartment leasing office about "No Coloreds Allowed". They might be gone now, but do you think that everyone who lived there, everyone who thought and enforced that, disappeared the same day as the sign? Do you think none of them passed those values on to their children?

    Those residual effects will take a few generations to really disappear. To this day there are still things being done - hiding housing ads from certain races, for example - that are making sure the issue drags out as long as possible.

    I doubt you have ever faced discrimination in housing, but my life experience is a little broader than most on Slashdot, so let me explain something to you. When I, as a white man, needed government assisted housing, there was a complex near by where I worked, the residents and management all being black. I didn't want to be there, but I had to. Now, Even though the law says I will have the same help available to me, and the paperwork I signed had all kinds of feel-good equal opportunity housing notices on it... I did not leave that office with the same benefits the black people did. The law might decree equal opportunity, but there is so much flex room in the *administration* of it, that in practice, the opportunities are anything but equal.

  67. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

    The Anonymous Idiot asked why, not how.

    He's an idiot because this article is about the "why" -- to better target advertisements.

  68. ORLY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So...pretty much, everything is racism nowadays, right?

    Stupid times we live on.

    This whole inclusion thing + bad use of information media is simple driving me nuts.

  69. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can't think of any examples of "gangs" shooting hundreds of people at random like in Vegas. And by "gangs" we can only assume you mean black people, you racist fuck.

    It's very convenient of you to exclude "non-sucide gun deaths", so I'll go for the unintentional deaths which account for 80% of the deaths caused by white owned guns. These are primary accidental handgun deaths, but if your baby was shot intentionally or accidental through the apartment wall it hardly matters to you.

    citation1 citation2

  70. Re:Only one of them makes sense (in some situation by novakyu · · Score: 1

    Not to mention ADA. If you operate at a big enough scale, you have a legal obligation to make your properties handicapped accessible, when feasible.

  71. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by alvinrod · · Score: 1

    Housing is an area where the market fails. The most profit is made by causing social problems, i.e. to the detriment of the rest of society. As such, most places have extra levels of regulation.

    This explains why housing projects are such great places to live.

    The housing market works fine, it's government intervention that screws everything up or makes it way more complicated. You're not going to find many well regarded economists that think rent control is a good idea or doesn't cause all manner of problems in turn. It also turns out that guaranteeing home loans to people who can't possibly afford them wasn't a good idea other. The market did exactly what the people wanted it to, but if you have a lot of racist people, the market isn't going to magically create racial harmony for you. Of course neither is government intervention, so it hardly matters.

    I'd even be fine with the proposals from people who want to completely remove the government from the market, even when it includes no protection for minority groups and businesses could actively discriminate based on race. It just lets all the peckerheads that care about crap like that segregate their own selves away from everyone else. And if someone wants to create their own little ethnic enclave where only black Jews from the Maldives can live then they're just as welcome to that. The people and businesses that like money more than prejudices are going to be the ones to survive and thrive.

  72. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Anyone who spends their time worrying about their standing in the protected class Olympics is a fool and probably can't comprehend it.

    If the ad said, "No gamers or Republicans", you'd shit on the floor in fury and call for a boycott.

    They live their lives with chips on their shoulders and can even look at the absolute poverty in Appalachia and still see "white privilege".

    Did U Know? that poverty was going down in Appalachia until they started buying into racist dogwhistles and voting for Republican governance? You can look it up.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  73. Another shoehorned inflammatory race article by whyyisthissohard · · Score: 1

    Some editor is on a roll today! Check out the "Apple hates opening stores where minorities live" article too.

    Facebook lets any ad target people on a racial basis. Any advertising agency lets an ad target people on a racial basis. This is standard practice in advertising.
    Here's something crazy and hard to believe for a lot of people:
    Different racial groups are different. There are trends in behavior that correlate tightly with race. In other words, race isn't just made up. It's real! Whoa!

    The foundation of the objection this article exists to voice is that 'all races are the same' so treating them differently in any way is wrong. That is the message that an unaware reader has crammed into their head.

    All of these groups are protected under the federal Fair Housing Act.

    Are white people not? That is the implication from the sentence. Cherrypicking the aspect of the truth that serves its narrative best. It's supporting the mindset that it's minorities against whites in this world. In reality, ALL PEOPLE are protected.

    If we keep accepting narratives like this in our media, it really will be minorities against whites, with misled minorities as the aggressors.

    Submitter: AmiMoJo
    our resident social justice shill
    It was nice to see that fool getting ravaged with downmods in the Damore article. However it is much, much too often that this pernicious bastard gets modded up for completely illogical and politically motivated messages.

    How much do you want to bet that there are paid posters here that farm mod points to mod people like this up and mod down any dissent? With any gameified system with anything at stake there are always going to be "gold farmers".
    How hard would it be to hook up a chat bot to fish for mod points on a dummy account?

  74. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by mysidia · · Score: 1

    In Facebook's case, the technology is such that just anybody CANNOT see those ads.

    It seems fairly far-fetched that a seller announces housing available in Facebook Ads only. This is not a conventional way of finding housing..... usually there are listing services that contain such things, and many websites such as Zillow provide a search feature.

    Perhaps Facebook could easily address the concern by making ALL ads that are active on their platform searchable, and if you expose an ad by specifically searching Type of ad, then no targeting rules can apply.

  75. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by mysidia · · Score: 1

    But to your analogy, it isn't putting it up on a big public bulletin board and shoo'ing away.

    It's like having a bunch of bulletin boards hidden behind curtains, and when somebody walks by you lift a curtain that corresponds to
    the bulletin board with ads targeted to that guest's demographics.

  76. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Khyber · · Score: 1

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/us...

    Subsection D says you're dead wrong and in fact you must equally present that dotted line.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  77. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Khyber · · Score: 1

    "So you can't publish housing ads in a magazine almost exclusively read by older men"

    Actually, no mention of age is in the advertising-specific sections of the Fair Housing Act, though it is mentioned elsewhere in non-advertising contexts. That would probably be the sticking point in a court room.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  78. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Khyber · · Score: 1

    After all, were that the case, you wouldn't be legally seeing advertisements for age-based retirement communities.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  79. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

    There are places where segregation wouldn't become a problem if regulation were removed. And then there's the entire southeastern United States, which remains highly segregated and highly bigoted. About 40% of people in Mississippi and Alabama still believe interracial marriage should be illegal -- one of many harmful effects of segregation. Their anti-gay, anti-muslim, etc views are of course even more extreme. The bigots (of any type) can only develop into better people by encountering people who are different than them, which is why the powerful among them seek to prevent their communities from being exposed to others who would educate them.

    --
    This space intentionally left blank
  80. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 1

    Did U Know? that poverty was going down in Appalachia until they started buying into racist dogwhistles and voting for Republican governance? You can look it up.

    To be honest I'm not a big D nor R fan, though I dislike them for different reasons. The Democrats favor social engineering and have decided that white people and men are both bad (citation below). As I'm both that isn't appealing to me. Their non-stop race baiting is off-putting. If they decided that they were willing to drop the race baiting and go back to trying to focus on the working poor - upper middle class then I'd be happy to vote for them. The Republicans are a mix of rich for the rich but they at least don't call me names for the crime of being born white and male. To my mind they are both run by mega donors, you just have a choice of Soros vs Koch brothers. I dislike both.

    Citations:

    https://townhall.com/tipsheet/... https://www.theatlantic.com/ma...

  81. AI still a looong way away by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This. FB scales through automation. An ad like this would have been rejected by most humans at newspapers in the past.

    Now that the humans are no longer looking at ads, you have this result.

    Why is this surprising?

  82. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Type44Q · · Score: 1

    No, the "how" is extremely important: we're told some bullshit about "microprocessors" and"algorithms" but clearly alien technology has to be involved...

  83. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm pretty sure that bomb throwing is not one of the criteria you can filter your ads by in Facebook. If FB could actually tell that a user was a bomb-thrower, wouldn't they contact the authorities?

  84. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

    Anyone who spends their time worrying about their standing in the protected class Olympics is a fool and probably can't comprehend it.

    If the ad said, "No gamers or Republicans", you'd shit on the floor in fury and call for a boycott.

    It's funny, really: the ad doesn't say "No Demorats" or "No non-whites" and there is a storm of controversy, and yet you want to turn this around and tell us what the outcome will be if the ad was indeed discriminatory.

    You're an idiot.

    --
    I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
  85. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by mjwx · · Score: 1

    I"m guessing that while it is illegal to discriminate with regard to housing to [insert minority here], it is likely NOT illegal to tune your advertising disbursement however you wish.

    Where I am, this would be borderline illegal.

    But that doesn't matter, its a big PR shitstorm and thatâ(TM)s the damaging part. It doesn't need to be illegal to be immoral or distasteful to your clientele. Many businesses have lost supporters over perfectly legal racist policies because those supporters or advertisers do not want to be tarnished by an affiliated or associated company who has conducted themselves in such a distasteful manner.

    Just because it isn't illegal doesn't make it right.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  86. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
    No..it says the CONTENT of the ad cannot contain verbiage that discriminates by saying things like "no blacks" allowed.

    It does regulate content, but it does not regulate the distribution and targeting of the ads or ad campaign.

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
  87. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not to the detriment of all society. That's your inner democrat talking. If Bill Gates lived in my neighborhood what benefit would I get? How is it harming me that he's not here? Should I be suing over this? It's bullshit. I'm glad there aren't a bunch of rich snobs living here and looking down their noses at me because I don't have automatic sprinklers or asking me to play golf with them or carry their clubs.

    The truth is that in the case of housing the only way to hurt someone is to break into their place. Even denying housing isn't really a harm... there are plenty of places i can't afford and they would turn me down if they saw my pay stubs. Not harming me. And if I go somewhere I can afford and they say "we don't want your kind here" I would be offended but also I wouldn't want to live there anymore because it would just be all problems. I'll go where I'm welcome, and it's their loss for denying me based on their prejudice.

  88. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    You're allowed to discriminate based on age when you're discriminating against younger (under-55) people. There's tons of communities in the US where you either can't rent or can't buy a house if you're too young, and it's completely legal.

  89. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Marxist+Hacker+42 · · Score: 1

    Not if contacting the authorities makes them a target, which may explain the 17 minute on average difference in the original article.

    --
    SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
  90. Re: Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1/17th as likely (not "17x less", you buffoon) to be convicted of a crime, which is a far far different thing from what you are portraying.

  91. Re:Jews, blacks, and the disabled not welcome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The analogy is putting it up on a big public bulletin board whenever a [person not of minority] walks in and taking it down when [person of minority] walks in.