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The Feds Are Officially Cracking Down on Basement Biohackers (gizmodo.com)
Kristen Brown, reporting for Gizmodo: The Food and Drug Agency has issued a stern warning to anyone who might be crazy enough to undertake gene therapy in the do-it-yourself fashion. Definitely don't do this at home, a statement released on Tuesday implies. And if you do, we'll throw every law we can at you. The FDA's deterrent comes on the heels of a brazen DIY gene therapy experiment, in which a 27-year-old software engineer injected himself with an unprove gene therapy for HIV designed by three biohacker friends. The first injection was streamed live on Facebook in October, and went viral after it was covered by Gizmodo. "You can't stop it, you can't regulate these things," patient zero, Tristan Roberts, told Gizmodo at the time. Apparently the FDA begs to differ.
They can't stop it, but just like drugs, they can drive it underground so people that choose to do this will be unable to seek medical attention without fear of being arrested.
On the one hand, I say let 'em do it. If they succeed, we have the potential for medical breakthroughs. If they fail, they win Darwin's Award. Either way, nobody gets hurt.
On the other hand, I can see some sort of home-brew Resident Evil thing happening if things go wrong...
Maybe limit it to certain lines of research/self-testing, and calling certain types and materials off-limits?
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
Worked for Steve Jobs!
"The first injection was streamed live on Facebook in October, and went viral after it was covered by Gizmodo."
That seems like a strange interaction.
When someone says, "Any fool can see
There is no freedom without self ownership.
I know someone who drove the development of a new genetic treatment for his son who had an incurable, fatal genetic disease. This person is extremely smart and well connected to genetic medicine experts. The treatments were successful in saving his son from a steady decline and early death, and are now being trialed in the US. He did what any parent would do to save his child's life, if they were in the same situation. But he knew the legal risk also, and most doctors didn't want to know about or support his efforts, for fear of legal repercussions. So he had to fly to a hospital in Mexico monthly to have the treatments administered. When the choice is between dying or facing some legal repercussions for trying to save a life, I think most of us would go with trying to save your own life, or the life of a family member. The FDA needs to back off.
No, not Hitler. But he did have a German name.
Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
Enforcement is successful if the victim sides with the government. (theft, burglary, kidnapping, ...)
If the victim sides with the criminal, it is extremely difficult to enforce the law. (contraband black market, vice laws, ...)
If people randomly cook things up and inject themselves with it, it is difficult to stop it. Even if it is very dangerous to rest of the society (like becoming a carrier of super drug resistant pathogens. ...
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Cooking up meth in your basement is also illegal, but there doesn't seem to be any shortage of meth out there does it ?
When you go the doctor you are taking your chances. They prescribe medications that "may help", or "may not". They perform surgeries that may or may not help. All based on what they think essentially. Granted their experience and training makes that an educated guess, but they're still wrong sometimes. It's also not infrequent. The one certainty is that those medications will have side effects, and you will still receive a bill for services rendered. All the time the FDA approves things that are later determined to be harmful. How is it that they think they should be the ultimate arbiters of what a person can and can't do on their own? Unless it's not about protecting the public, but rather protecting an industry. I think if you're dying anyway what does it hurt? Especially if you're electing to do it to yourself? How is it that the federal government can mandate what's best for an individual when they themselves are full of corruption, inadequacy, and incompetence? Not a fan.
I don't believe in karma, I just call it like I see it.
But it's ok to poison people with fake medicine and charlatans selling snakeoil to people who are desperate enough to believe it, yes?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You must be careful rushing wonder solutions without adequate testing. Thalidomide was supposed to be a wonderful solution to morning sickness for pregnant women. It never completed testing in the US, but was approved for use in Europe. Once in use, the women who took it were giving birth to children with horrendous birth defects. The testing done was only testing if it had any effect on the women taking it, and hadn't progressed to checking the effect on the unborn child.
Would you allow someone without a medical license to operate on you?
Under normal circumstances no but sometimes circumstances aren't normal. Sometimes the people with the medical license are prohibited from helping you by law or it costs too much to hire them. Sometimes people are curious or desperate or delusional. Sometimes people see a profit in doing things without a license. Quackery is a real thing (see homeopathy). If you have a condition that will kill you and the people with medical licenses won't help you, chances are good you'll look at other options you might not normally consider.
The main problem with this is that for every smart genius with good connections to genetic experts, there's thousands of deluded parents who pump their kids full of bleach because some unscrupulous assholes want to make a quick buck pretending to be medical experts.
I can see your point and I do agree that in this particular case it saved a life, but we have seen what damage patent medicine by self proclaimed medical geniuses can, did and still does.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Kind of reminds me in 1960, Eisenhower saying "beware of the military industrial complex", warning how the industry that supplies the government with the weapons of war, will figure out a way to have a sustainable war (the war on terror comes to mind), that NEVER ends, to keep the bullets, bombs & guns streaming. Same with the "war on cancer, AIDS, heart disease" etc. Why cure it, when they can continue to milk it forever with treatments that never cure it.
a 27-year-old software engineer injected himself with an unprove gene therapy for HIV designed by three biohacker friends
Jesus Christ. I remember when idjits were satisfied with just collecting the Americium from broken smoke detectors and making Mom's shed a radioactive EPA superfund site.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
Considering the small but non-zero chance that one of these morons initiates something contagious and harmful, yes, I'm fine with the Feds cracking down on "basement biolabs".
Go back to making custom party drugs, you dolts.
That only mostly kills people that arguably volunteer for it.
-Styopa
Isn't this issue self-correcting though? I mean gene-therapies are taking their sweet ass time through approval because most of them wind up causing cancer, and they killed the first experimental human subject.
So like, if all the people who want to inject themselves with experimental treatments that're most likely just going to give them run-away cancer are allowed to do so; doesn't the whole issue go away after they all die?
...Isn't some asshole 'practicing medicine without a license' or some high school kid raising up a batch of anthrax. It's individuals producing deadly medicine-resistant viruses genetically engineered to attack a specific individual. A DNA sample of the target is all that's necessary. Make it airborne and delivery can use multiple indirect routes extremely difficult to prevent for even the most large, sophisticated, and well-funded state security apparatus. No person of power would be safe from retribution.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
Unless/until you make something that goes viral even if it was not your intention to do so. Then it involves the public at large, maybe even the whole planet.
"Help us Elon Reeve Musk, you're our only hope."
"Get your ass to mars." - Arnold Schwarzenegger
etc.
#DeleteFacebook
Because that's how you start the Eugenics Wars.
#DeleteFacebook
The general public is starting to be anti-science, the USA is the land of the ignorant where being smart is shunned upon.
In the meantime, Germany and Russia will make super-soldiers while Japan makes cute sexy catgirls.
#DeleteFacebook
Here's an article that has a few paragraphs of his followup tests in the weeks following the injection.
He opened the documents sent from the lab and frowned slightly as he read. Then he laughed.
"Alright, so - yeah, this was not what we were hoping for."
According to the test results, Roberts' viral load rose from 28,800 on week two to 36,401 on week three - still low levels, but not the desired results. His count of CD4 helper T-cells - the immune system cell that HIV attacks - was higher than he'd ever seen it, but there was no way to know what that meant.
"More data is necessary," Traywick chimed in from off-camera. Then he sat down next to Roberts, joking: "We didn't kill you."
As to the actual story not sure how much they can as the FDA regulates licensed individuals doing business. Further in the US all "drugs" are defecto legal until they are specifically banned.
And when it comes to a therapy all one has to do is go to a country that doesn't care and or by extension just hop on a boat with a flag of said country and go into international waters.
But onto my topic.... There is absolutely going to be an underground movement both against government drug regulation and corporate drug monopolies. Plants/bacteria/mushrooms that are modified to effectively produce quality drugs both illegal and those requiring prescription. I think this is actually what they are more afraid of when it comes to garage genetics. Imagine a company coming up with a very expensive and needed drug... then overnight someone could release an easily grown plant into the wild that produces said drug cheaply... and unlike MJ it doesn't need to be an easily recognizable plant... governments can't test every plant in a forest or for that matter food and flower gardens.
The main problem with this is that for every smart genius with good connections to genetic experts, there's thousands of deluded parents who pump their kids full of bleach because some unscrupulous assholes want to make a quick buck pretending to be medical experts.
Yup. Its called ... freedom and it is scary. "Its my body, my right"
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
If you think Government is the solution, it's because you think freedom is the problem. -- Alan Lovejoy
If it's not being sold, there is nothing they can do about it no matter how openly you act.
"We'll throw every law we have at you"
every law = zero laws
Interesting to see how the media machine acts reflexively to propagate anything any federal agency wants to say.
I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that the banks own both.
"It's my body, my right"
OK, cool. Now what are the rules for kids (like the op described). Is it that simplistically absolute? My kid, I can do anything?
That's going to be cool but I can't wait until someone cultures their fecal bacteria, coaxes some of the strains to take up that glowing jellyfish plasmid, and re-introduces into themselves, giving them glow in the dark poop.
You can literally buy everything you need for under $200 right now including the plasmid.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
Excellent, anyone but a doctor injecting ink under your skin or a metal implant but a Doctor should be severely punished!
"You can't stop it, you can't regulate these things," patient zero, Tristan Roberts
We don't have to. The people involved will soon die off from ineffective treatment at best, or die from being treated with untested, dangerous drugs.
The development of microreactors could revolutionize the production of pharmaceuticals in small quantities.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
"The microreactor is usually a continuous flow reactor (contrast with/to a batch reactor). Microreactors offer many advantages over conventional scale reactors, including vast improvements in energy efficiency, reaction speed and yield, safety, reliability, scalability, on-site/on-demand production, and a much finer degree of process control." It's almost like a 3d printer for drugs.
The main problem with this is that for every smart genius with good connections to genetic experts, there's thousands of deluded parents who pump their kids full of bleach because some unscrupulous assholes want to make a quick buck pretending to be medical experts.
In my mind, the main problem is treating an unattributed, totally anonymous post as factual.
#DeleteChrome
Well, on one side, you'll have a thorougly researched treatment with millions in research, trials, validation and testing. On the other side, you have a guy going 'Hey, I think if I put this and that in you, it'll help heaps!'
Vaccines impact other people though, as not getting one reduces herd immunity and puts the immune compromised, infants, elderly, and small percentage of no-effect cases and puts them in serious danger. Like with seat belts there is an argument from crash testing that you become a danger to others in the vehicle and can cause harm to others via your action, and the lack of restraint makes it easier to lose control of the vehicle. Which puts them in a very different class of behaviors than something like self administering risky treatments.
I mean, does society have to accept a risk of epidemic and the destruction of millions of innocent lives because some people are too lazy to read the science on vaccinations?
I for one welcome our new Gattaca Overlords.
Those who refuse to vaccinate their children should be fined, and in extreme cases have their medically endangered children removed from their household by Child Protective Services, no different from those who eschew medical treatment because 'gods will be done', and let their children DIE rather than getting appropriate and necessary medical attention.
Yes, children have the right to not be abused OR NEGLECTED by their parents. That right to not be medically neglected includes the right to be vaccinated against common disease vectors.
Yes, this is a proper role for government - to protect the interests of SOCIETY AS A WHOLE from those who would threaten harm to that society for their own selfish ends. That is, essentially, the fundamental purpose of government.
You do understand the epidemiological paradigm of 'herd immunity', right?
It's this nonsense war-on-science 'woo' about 'BigPharma' that has led to a re-introduction of measles, mumps, whooping cough and chickenpox.
Please please read this excellent book about the 'war on science', and stop feeding that war with crapulatious caterwauling : https://www.amazon.com/War-Sci...
Tuskegee was the government
Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
Should the government be required to vaccinate all kids, regardless of parental wishes, and arrest parents who don't?
Yes. There is extensive evidence that vaccination saves lives. Fortunately, states are starting to require it.
Obviously, there are waivers for people who are sensitive to a particular vaccine. It's rare, but it's accounted for.
Whats the difference between Vaccine pushed by Big Pharma/Government complex onto unsuspecting children, without their or their parents consent, and someone bio-engineering a cure
Vaccines are rigorously tested before they are made available to the public, and they are generally sold publicly for a long time before becoming mandatory. Some vaccines aren't mandatory because there is no compelling public health benefit.
Compare this to your neighborhood Chemical Joe, whose treatment probably has zero testing. He could be scamming desperate people, but there's no way to check up on him if anyone can setup a biolab at home.
There is no "right" answer, and its one that the government has no business answering.
Most people are not qualified to assess the safety and efficacy of a medical treatment. Most people couldn't make sense of the statistical section of a published paper. So we have a rule that medical treatments must be reviewed for safety and effectiveness before they can be offered to the public.
This is a good starting point as far as a "right" answer is concerned. Maybe the FDA needs to adjust a few policies, but the overall approach is quite reasonable.
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According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Neat, so why hasn't anyone tried this yet?
Critical lack of imagination?
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
I've got about 20 tabs open reading about this stuff now. I'm guessing you were talking about taking a sample of your own e.coli, doing the popular glowing e.coli lab and then ingesting the modified result so it reproduces?
I had no idea this kind of stuff was within reach of the common person. Really fucking neato'
I have no problem with you pumping bleach up your own asshole. I draw the line where you hurt your child.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Let me ask you the same question you just asked, a different way. Should the government be required to vaccinate all kids, regardless of parental wishes, and arrest parents who don't?
Yes. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or the one.
Next question?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Michigan just jailed a woman in October for refusing to vaccinate. https://www.washingtonpost.com...
FDA only has legal control if you sell across state lines, granted under the Constitution's Commerce Clause. They cannot take action within a state based on federal authority, but individual states have laws that either grant the FDA internal authority or have state agencies that accept FDA guidance, thus making it equivalent to the feds having direct authority.
It's more likely to just prevent people from publicizing their efforts. Perhaps that's what the powers that be are more concerned with, then they have plausible deniability. However, the outcome is that anything truly dangerous that comes of such work is likely to go undetected for longer.
Two other opportunities:
"Gee,what if I grafted Ebola to E coli?"
and
The Metamorphosis - Wikipedia
Patient zero: In medical science, the primary case or initial patient in the population of an epidemiological investigation
It feels kind of threatening to call him like that. Especially when he's saying "You can't stop it". Maybe there's a better designation for him?
Ezekiel 23:20
You would need to properly shock them to encourage them to take up the plasmids but yea You are going to need agar plates, a make shift incubator, loops, nutrient broth, culture flasks (for bulk reproducing them once you get them glowing), and practice some care to not introduce anything else from outside you into the mix but it's possible for someone to do at home. You would also want to do a colon cleanse with something like GoLYTely. Also I'd recommend taking the other route to reintroduce them to avoid the stomach acids. Bottoms up!
Seriously though, it should be possible but it would come with a significant, real risk of something going wrong so I wouldn't recommend someone ACTUALLY do it. That said I'm really surprised someone hasn't done it already.
I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
people should also be free to run their own genetic data through whatever analysis programs they want
Yeah, I think HIPAA practically demands having access to your own medical data. If you can have it but aren't supposed to read it, that's just silly.
No, Snakes too