Slashdot Mirror


Ajit Pai and the FCC Want It To Be Legal for Comcast To Block BitTorrent (theverge.com)

Nilay Patel, reporting for The Verge: FCC Chairman Ajit Pai released his proposal to kill net neutrality this week, and while there's a lot to be unhappy with, it's hard not to be taken with the brazenness of his argument. Pai thinks it was a mistake for the FCC to try and stop Comcast from blocking BitTorrent in 2008, thinks all of the regulatory actions the FCC took after that to give itself the authority to prevent blocking were wrong, and wants to go back to the legal framework that allowed Comcast to block BitTorrent.

31 of 553 comments (clear)

  1. Next step by viperidaenz · · Score: 4, Funny

    Block all traffic except HTTP

    As a bonus, if HTTPS is blocked then lawful intercepting will be much easier.

    1. Re:Next step by burtosis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Step 3: Block VPNs.

    2. Re:Next step by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Way back in the early 2000s we figured out that's what our campus IT department was doing.

      A friend of mine wrote a simple 'proxy' server that sent a fake HTTP header that the bittorrent trackers ignored. Our school's firewall thought it was a HTTP packet and let it through.

    3. Re:Next step by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 3, Funny

      That's one way to garner corporate backlash. When my company's C-suite officers can't check their mail from home it's going to start raising IT tickets that point back to Comcast.

    4. Re:Next step by gweihir · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Indeed. My university back then decided to allow all the official P2P ports, because this way they could at least shape the traffic down to a reasonable rate. They also got a legal opinion stating that they are actually not required to look at the traffic or block based on content.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re:Next step by rtb61 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You really do not get it, this is all about mass corporate censorship, not blocking applications, blocking you, putting you off line, silencing you. How bad will be the outcome, face not that bad at all because the fury of millions of geeks is going to scare the crap out of the entirely corrupt US government. Net Neutrality will be back pretty quick, once the Republicans realise they will go from dominating the US government to being an also ran for many years to come. Geeks and nerds are an unforgiving lot being subject to many harassments in the youth has often not left them in the best temperament and in adult life, they know their intellect puts them well ahead of others in the game of political discourse. Grind the fuckers until the beg for mercy, be brutal, be mean, let them really know how pissed off you are and forget about the idea of not voting them, what a pathetic message to send, you are going to campaign against them, actively for shits and giggles to put them on the unemployment line (no revolving doors for them when they can no longer win elections and have no public relations value, out on the collective assess). Put the fucking fear of the political wilderness into them, let it keep them awake at night. Don't forget to send that email, with a note of who you will be actively campaigning for, let them know who will be replacing them.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    6. Re:Next step by burtosis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Step 4: charge additional fees to reinstate corporate VPNs problem solved.

  2. Ports by hackwrench · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are ports really necessary, because this sounds like it will just result in all sessions being routed over port 80 and a cat and mouse game of avoiding deep packet inspection.

    1. Re:Ports by gweihir · · Score: 5, Interesting

      As more and more traffic is SSL, deep-packet-inspection is basically dead, except in enterprise environments where they can push their own CA into the clients and break the tunnel.

      The whole thing is stupid. A typical sign of a clueless nil-whit trying to do policy.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  3. It would be okay if competition actually existed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you have only 1 or at best 2 Internet providers available, you don't have competition.

    Society's use of and dependence on the Internet has gotten to the point where the Internet needs to be a separate non-profit utility entity.

    Comcast needs to go back to being a cable TV / entertainment company.

    The fix will be VPNs to 3rd party proxies.

  4. BitTorrent vs. Guns by jmcbain · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Serious question here. What's the difference between these arguments?
    1. You shouldn't ban BitTorrent. It's just a protocol. Just because some people use it to steal digital content doesn't mean BitTorrent is inherently bad.
    2. You shouldn't ban guns. It's just a device. Just because some people use it to kill innocents doesn't mean guns are inherently bad.

    1. Re:BitTorrent vs. Guns by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There you go again, using logic with Republicans. They very strongly believe in one thing, until they don't. It's the same with Federal power vs State's rights. The GOP takes both sides of that argument depending on the issue.

    2. Re:BitTorrent vs. Guns by ilsaloving · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except that's not the what the arguments are.

      A more accurate version would be:
      1. You shouldn't ban guns. It's just a device. Just because some people use it to kill innocents doesn't mean guns are inherently bad.
      2. You shouldn't deregulate the ENTIRE INTERNET just because you don't want a few people to pirate with bittorrent.

      Because that's what his proposed changes will do. Sure, he will get his wish and allow ISPs to arbitrarily block bittorrent. But only a truly naive and ignorant person would think that that would be the extent of it.

      Giving the major ISPs the ability to control whatever strikes their fancy would give them the ability to go godfather on the internet. You want people to be able to access your site/service at a reasonable speed/at all? Better pay a fee. Both you AND the end user. Why? Cause fuck you we can, that's why. They will be able to hold literally every internet facing small business over a barrel. Gee, that's a nice business you got there. Would be a shame if people couldn't get to it any more.

      Not only that, but free speech goes right out the window cause they would be able to arbitrarily block whatever strikes their fancy. They've already demonstrated in the past that they would happily do so before NN provisions were in place. If you think it's bad enough that Twitter or Facebook or Reddit arbitrarily censors users, imagine companies that have absolutely nothing to do with those services doing the same thing. It's like a mailman denying your ability to receive mail from a particular business cause they happen to not like that business.

      The internet has basically become a utility so critical that it's almost impossible to go without, so the ISPs will be able to jack up rates because they know you have no choice but to pay or lose access to a massive variety of services that no longer even have physical equivalents anymore. Imagine having to pay an extra electricity surcharge because you want to hang neon decorations from your window? Imagine having to pay extra gas surcharges because your basic package only allows you go to work and buy groceries, but you want to take your kids to the local amusement park? That's the ridiculous situation you are risking with your internet connectivity without Net Neutrality.

    3. Re:BitTorrent vs. Guns by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 3, Informative

      The problem with this is that net neutrality removes a big incentive for the ISP to build and improve their network.

      Na, it doesn't. The big guys just want you to think that. They created this artificial situation Ajit Pai points to. Of course they held back deployment since NN. What better way to prove to the regulators that it's harming them. Total BS. This deal was sealed and paid for a long time ago, just pushing the papers around.

  5. Misleading headline by diamondmagic · · Score: 3, Informative

    How does the article manage to make the jump from "The FCC does not have the statutory authority to manage computer networks" (which is true) to "Ajit Pai wants ISPs to block content" (not true).

    The FCC's own 2015 Open Internet Order says it only applies to "legal" content anyways. Among other things, this excludes most BitTorrent traffic and gambling.

    Title II also contains many compulsory provisions entirely incompatible with Net Neutrality, like censorship of explicit material.

    If you want Net Neutrality, write to your representative and tell them the Internet is a Title I service.

    1. Re:Misleading headline by vux984 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Why? So you can be ignored by someone else?

      (That was his whole point.)

  6. Re:Good by mark-t · · Score: 5, Informative

    You know, not all content shared by bittorrent is illegal.

    Every quarter, I get an update email on a software package that I use which is actually distributed via bittorrent, because it lightens the load on the main server when everybody is trying to get the file at about the same time.

  7. Good question by mnmn · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's actually a good question. Bittorrent and guns are both tools that are enablers for crime. Banning the tool instead of the crime affects legitimate use of the tool by law-abiding citizens.

    Here's the difference:

    The law is supposed to allow as much freedom as is possible, up to a certain extent. It then puts up a wall even for legitimate uses once the chance of damage has gone high enough. You can legalize hand grenades for recreational use too, or how about selling plutonium for educational purposes. Plutonium doesn't kill people, people kill people. But at that point the chance of damage is so high, basically screw it all and ban it, even for legitimate uses.

    This balance was moved with flights where sharp objects and liquids are banned.

    On the flip side, a baseball bat can kill a person, and so can riding a bicycle without a helmet. But at this stage, damage potential is relatively small and personal freedoms are important. Instead of trying to put in a sliding scale for everything (bats of certain sizes, faster bicycles, similar to liquid amounts for flights), it's just better to leave personal freedoms be, because a cyclist falling or an angry person with a bat cannot kill dozens of people.

    This is why knives are legal to own, hand grenades are not, and guns of different sizes/capacities is where that threshold lies. With this argument, I believe assault/automatic rifles, high capacity magazines have been proven to cause excessive damage compared to the rights and personal freedoms of wanting such firearms. This is in contrast to say bolt action hunting rifles with 5 rounds. And certainly illegally downloading movies and music which you most likely would not be paying for anyway (and impact the financial earnings of artists by a small amount), is far far away from this threshold.

    --
    "Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
    1. Re:Good question by sdinfoserv · · Score: 5, Informative

      The MAIN difference here is that GUN RIGHTS are specifically spelled out under the Constitution. If you bother to look even further, and read the Federalist Papers (documents and thought by the founding fathers), you will clearly read that The Founding Fathers of the United States firmly believed it was the right and responsibility of every Citizen to stand against tyranny, and gun ownership was a necessary balance as the last step against a corrupt Government.

    2. Re:Good question by Altrag · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I don't believe self defense is a legitimate use. Not because I don't believe you shouldn't have the right to defend yourself, but because if your attacker is constantly worried that you'll pull a gun, they're going to be damned sure to pull theirs first. Either way, someone ends up shot and possibly killed. And since the attacker is usually the one with the opening advantage, the risk that you get killed in such a scenario becomes higher in a gun-prevalent society. Its the same story you hear about cops over and over again -- they don't want to risk anyone they stop pulling a gun on them so they make sure to shoot first when you make even the slightest misstep at even the most benign traffic stop.

      Of course, being the one guy who doesn't have a gun in a gun-prevalent society is a problem also, making the US gun troubles significantly harder to solve -- its a downward spiral of violence that's extremely difficult to climb back up. You buy a gun because you're scared of a robber. So your neighbor buys a gun because he's scared of you. So his boss buys a gun because he's scared the employee will go ham some day. So the other employees buy guns in case the boss goes ham. So all their neighbors buy guns.

      And at the end of the day you have dozens or hundreds of gun purchases out there based on one individual's fear of a situation they may or may not ever encounter, which ends up increasing the risk that they will encounter it because that 6-degree neighbor of a guy who's boss hired a guy who's neighbor bought a gun.. that guy way at the end of the chain turns out to be the robber that you're now in a shootout with.

    3. Re:Good question by Uberbah · · Score: 4, Informative

      If you bother to look even further, and read the Federalist Papers (documents and thought by the founding fathers), you will clearly read that The Founding Fathers of the United States firmly believed it was the right and responsibility of every Citizen to stand against tyranny, and gun ownership was a necessary balance as the last step against a corrupt Government.

      Except that's all gun nut bullshit. Article III, Section 3:

      • Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

      Article I, Section 9:

      • The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

      If gun cultists ever try and use the 2nd Amendment the way they think it was meant to be used, the government will throw their asses in prison without a warrant, and if they get a trial, hung for treason.

    4. Re:Good question by Uberbah · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your post implies that once you are employed, appointed, or elected to the government you are immune from treason charges.

      Where was that, exactly.

      I am so pro-gun gun my brain has ceased to function logically.

      FTFY

      as any government willing to violate the constitution in a flagrant enough manner to rile up the 2nd amendment loving crowd so much that they march on their own politicians would not give two shits about trials, evidence, attorneys, etc.

      Except that crowd is the worst bunch of bed-wetting tough guys on the planet. Talk a good game right up until its time to put their necks on the line, in which case their shit is immediately lost.

      Now, back to the point. The Constitution completely and unequivocally calls bullshit on the gun cultist storyline about the 2nd being about giving citizens the right to fight their government with force.

  8. Re:Good by Aighearach · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Before bittorrent, downloading linux distributions could take days, and it cost the distro money for the server load. With torrents I can download a whole distro in a few minutes! And it doesn't add to the costs of publishing the distro.

  9. Re:Deregulation now works both ways by ilsaloving · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There is so much wrong with this I don't know where to begin, but your argument basically boils down to "the free market will fix it".

    And there is more than ample evidence that that flat out will not happen.

    There are still plenty of areas where there is only one provider, sometimes none. Cities that tried to start their own ISPs were sued and forced to abandon their efforts. There are more than enough dirty tactics employed by the encumbant ISPs to make it incredibly difficult for small ISPs to get off the ground, and eliminating net neutrality will just give the existing ISPs that much more power to crush emerging competition.

  10. I'd like to announce my new protocol ByteFlow! by quantaman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's just an arms race, the moment you block BitTorrent someone makes a new protocol. You block that protocol too and they make a 3rd protocol that disguises itself as normal traffic.

    Soon Comcast is gives up entirely, or gets in an arms race with the protocol authors trying to detect P2P traffic with legitimate traffic getting caught in the crossfire.

    --
    I stole this Sig
  11. Re:Good by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As a copyright holder, I've been very happy with Agit Pai so far.

    On behalf of all of the internet, fuck you and the horse you rode in on. Your assault against the internet and the platform which you should see as an enabler in the name of a few bad apples should be met in kind. I hope you get what you want.

    I hope your precious Agit Pai enables mega corporations to stamp on your little copyright. May you be screwed over in more ways than you're proposing to screw the common man. God speed.

  12. Re: Appcast should block LUDDITE software! by UnknowingFool · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Talk about an apples to oranges comparison. What the OP is saying is if you have Comcast, most likely you can't get another suitable ISP this no competition. Mobile isn't a viable substitute. Satellite isn't a viable substitute. For many consumers, there isn't another cable company they could use and fiber isn't everywhere.

    --
    Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
  13. Re: GOP - Grand Ole Party NO MORE! by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 5, Informative

    I have watched the news religiously. It is mostly covering Republican pedophilia and barely ever mentions a Democrat for more than a quick bit then moves on.

    It's because the Democrats like Franken admit wrongdoing, apologize and take steps to make good. So the news story goes away. In Franken's case, his accuser accepted his apology. So there's no story any more.

    Republicans like Trump and Moore just shout FAKE NEWS NEVER HAPPENED LIARS SLUTS THE LOT OF THEM!!! so the story continues and continues...

  14. Re:Good by dkman · · Score: 3, Informative

    Exactly. And game companies like Blizzard use customized bit torrent clients to distribute patches/updates. It's a lot easier to push out an update to a few million users when those users pitch in to help out.

    --
    I refuse to sign
  15. Re:That's the FCC's argument. (Verge is full of sh by Desler · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's what chairman Pai wrote, that the Comcast and torrents issue should have been addressed under anti-trust and consumer protection laws, rather than the failed way they tried to it, which the court threw out due to lack of legislative authority.

    Except the FTC would have limited powers of enforcement and would essentially be a paper tiger.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/pundi...

    His statement that what they did was a mistake is true almost by definition - the court threw it out.

    The courts threw out the previous version but upheld the current version.

    The FCC isn't Congress, they can't make laws.

    And yet Ajit Pai is making up his own rules all the time. But just like the lie of “judicial activism”, the right is always fine with something as long is it’s for things they like. It’s always “activism” whenever they disagree.

  16. Re: GOP - Grand Ole Party NO MORE! by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Informative

    INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.

    The thing is, you have to accept that in some cases you are never going to have definitive "proof." There is not going to be HD video surfacing with surround-sound audio of Moore taking the clothes off a 14-year-old girl.

    What you have is the weight of evidence and you have to make your evaluation on that.

    At least five unrelated women have accused Moore - Women who have never met each other, all tell almost identical stories.

    In the case of Corfman, her mother and her friends back up the story. Corfman is a Republican who voted for Trump. Court records show Moore and Corfman were at the courthouse that day. People who worked with Moore at the DA's office say it was common knowledge that Moore dated teenage girls. One girl has a high school yearbook that Moore signed.

    On and on.

    That is a lot of weight of evidence against Moore saying "it didn't happen."

    Similar story with Trump - Unrelated women telling similar stories. And what further harms Trump is he lies constantly, so any credibility in his saying "It didn't happen!" is lost.

    In the end it comes down to a simple question (with a difficult answer): Who do you believe?