Black Friday Panic at Macy's: People Report Credit Card System Outage (fastcompany.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Macy's might have celebrated an increase in share price on Black Friday, but it seems like the retailer will end the day with a lot of lost sales. Many of its customers recently took to Twitter to complain that its credit card machines are down, and that they can only pay with cash.

Comments

O. M. G!

[Frosty Piss]

I wonder how many murder / suicides this will result in?

But seriously, do they not load test in the run-up to these extravaganzas?

Re:O. M. G!

[DontBeAMoran]

And some Walmart shoppers have tanks. There's already casualties.

Re:O. M. G!

[ShanghaiBill]

Businesses should always be prepared for a system failure or power outage. I was in a local shop recently when the power failed. It took them less than a minute to get a box of paper based "kerchunkers" from the manager's office and put one at each register. Sales lost: $0.

Re:O. M. G!

[ddtmm]

Walmart customers have credit cards?

Re:O. M. G!

[tlhIngan]

Businesses should always be prepared for a system failure or power outage. I was in a local shop recently when the power failed. It took them less than a minute to get a box of paper based "kerchunkers" from the manager's office and put one at each register. Sales lost: $0.

That works for the mom and pop shops, but for bigger chains, the registers do a lot of the cash tracking because otherwise you'd have to train teenagers how to handle cash and cash tracking. It's also a lot easier when most of them can do credit card payments because they don't have to count cash or figure out counterfeits and other things.

Basically computers have made it so the cashier can be pretty dumb. There is no need to keep track of cash versus credit transactions, keep track of credit slips, keep track of cash in the cash box (if you ever wonder why a cashier would trade a bill for an equivalent amount of coins, it's so their cashbox comes up even - if the register says they should have $3,293 in there, then there has beter be close to $3,293 in there (and that includes the starting amount so you can make change).

If your cashiers are properly trained, yes, you can still maintain business, somewhat. Though it's usually easier to stop credit transactions because those can take an annoyingly long amount of time to ring up (if you're using the manual methods, some stores may require calling into the payment processor to obtain an authorization code).

Re:O. M. G!

[omnichad]

Raised/embossed numbers are no longer a requirement (and flat cards are much easier on the wallet too) for card issuers. Most of my cards are completely flat now.

A few people who know what's accepted where they're going may only have their phone with them for Android Pay / Apple Pay.

Re:O. M. G!

[b0s0z0ku]

Wouldn't a business card scanner work to collect an image of a CC and driving license?

Re:O. M. G!

[omnichad]

Sure - but it's far more likely to be in violation of PCI compliance. Either way, declined cards are probably a bigger risk than lost sales for a bigger chain store.

Re:O. M. G!

[BronsCon]

But seriously, do they not load test in the run-up to these extravaganzas?

No. Last time I was there for a one-day sale (unplanned, so I didn't have my Macy's card with me), their system for looking up Macy's accounts was down. There was an additional 20% off that day if you used your Macy's card so, while I was able to still make my purchase, I didn't save as much as I could have.

Their website seems to be broken and unable to display Macy's card account info more often than not, as well.

It's almost like they've forgotten they're not some mom and pop operation.

Re:O. M. G!

[slashrio]

Customers should also be prepared.
Solution: don't use CC, use cash.
Cash is king.
A cash-less society is an un-free society.

Re:O. M. G!

[slashrio]

...you'd have to train teenagers how to handle cash and cash tracking.

Wasn't school supposed to prepare teenagers for society and teach them to handle and track cash?

Re:O. M. G!

[myid]

Businesses should always be prepared for a system failure or power outage. I was in a local shop recently when the power failed. It took them less than a minute to get a box of paper based "kerchunkers" from the manager's office and put one at each register. Sales lost: $0.

Last summer on a hot day, I was in a Target store when the power failed. Backup lights went on immediately. People who looked like managers went quickly from one checkout station to another, doing something. Everything at the checkout stations worked except the conveyer belts; you had to move the stuff towards the checker by hand.

When I drove away, the signal lights in the area weren't working, so the power loss wasn't the store's fault.

When the managers were going from one checkout station to the next, I don't know if they were enabling an override or what. But whatever they were doing, it looked like they knew what to do, and that they had practiced getting the checkout stations back online; they were prepared.

Re:O. M. G!

[datavirtue]

Cool...they recorded your card number and expiration date on a piece of paper....hooray. They can always write down all the card info and batch it later. Just costs them more. All of which is not an approved practice....though not illegal.

Re:O. M. G!

[datavirtue]

You are forgetting inventory and the customer tracking...the most important parts other than getting paid.

Re:O. M. G!

[datavirtue]

Don't know but I'm loving me some new Firefox.

Re:O. M. G!

[mjwx]

I wonder how many murder / suicides this will result in?

But seriously, do they not load test in the run-up to these extravaganzas?

Have you never worked in retail?

Of course no-one tested it, no-one thought of testing it. Staff on the floor are too busy dealing with stock movement, relentless hagglers and Karen with her 17 kids and a wheelbarrow demanding to speak to the manager. Store managers are too busy dealing with the Karens, over-working the floor staff and dodgy accounting to think of this and senior management are too busy trying to find out why their latest round of staff cuts haven't made them more profitable whilst planning to go for another lot of jobs with a serrated machete.

Old adage

[boudie2]

Never borrow money unless it's for something you can make money with.

Re:Old adage

[AvitarX]

Why would you assume that a credit card purchase is for the loan?

I get 2% cash back, and price protection for 60 days.

That means if they do better sales in January (likely), I get the discount, and it's easier than dealing with various stores.

Between the two, I save about $300-400/year, and 200 of it is zero effort.

Re:Old adage

[boudie2]

You, my friend, are in the minority. Visa isn't making money off you. My point applies more to those who make the minimum payment and end up paying the highest interest. Many years ago, actually my first job was in sales. The company would finance the purchase at about 30% interest. People would always say "Thirty-percent? I don't know about that." And the answer would be, yes but you're going to pay it off the first chance you get, like when you get your income tax back. Although very few of them did. Are you really sure you're up money on the credit card companies? Can't remember the last time one of them went bankrupt.

Re:Old adage

[ShanghaiBill]

Never borrow money unless it's for something you can make money with.

Since my credit card company pays me to use the card, I make money with it.

Re:Old adage

[AvitarX]

I am.

My only debt is a personal loan I took out for home renovations, and the few grand I'm paying in interest was worth it to have the work done three years earlier.

Re:Old adage

[omnichad]

Visa isn't making money off you.

Yes they are. Visa makes more money off of people like that. They only collect transaction fees. It's the issuing banks that make money on interest.

Re:Old adage

[boudie2]

I don't know, you present yourself as way too normal and well adjusted to be on slashdot.

Re:Old adage

[thegarbz]

Never borrow money unless it's for something you can make money with.

Like a credit card? Seriously are you not using a credit card? You're leaving all sorts of benefits on the table, especially when it costs you literally nothing to own and use one.

Re:Old adage

[AvitarX]

No, I have issues, just not with borrowing money.

Re:Old adage

[tlhIngan]

Never borrow money unless it's for something you can make money with.

When people are offering money for free, do you not use the opportunity? That's what short term interest-free loans are all about.

There is no secret to money. There is only discipline. If you're smart, you'd invest the money you spent on a credit card in something guaranteed, then use it pay off the card when it's due and pocket the few bucks you earned, for free, by doing absolutely nothing.

Re:Old adage

[boudie2]

It's an adage. That means I didn't think it up but it is sensible advise.

Re:Old adage

[boudie2]

Ditto, I'm only pretending to be normal. But I manage to fool most people.

Re:Old adage

[boudie2]

Here's what I believe (another adage) "There's no free lunch".

Re:Old adage

[mjwx]

Why would you assume that a credit card purchase is for the loan?

I get 2% cash back, and price protection for 60 days.

Meanwhile you're paying 5-10% more than you should.

Do you think banks are giving you money out of the goodness of their hearts... hell no. They're charging the merchant 5-10% for accepting payment by card, they give a pittance back to you to keep you using the card and pocket the rest.

Meanwhile, people using cash or debit are finding retailers who'll give them discounts.

Re:Old adage

[DRJlaw]

Meanwhile you're paying 5-10% more than you should.

Versus 7-12% more than he "should" if he did not, generously assuming that 5-10% is accurate (it's not, transaction fees are ~2%) and you have any authority to declare what things "should" cost.

Do you think banks are giving you money out of the goodness of their hearts... hell no. They're charging the merchant 5-10% for accepting payment by card, they give a pittance back to you to keep you using the card and pocket the rest.

Citation needed. You're grossly exaggerating credit transaction processing fees.

Meanwhile, people using cash or debit are finding retailers who'll give them discounts.

Debit cards have essentially equal transaction processing fees. As for cash discounts -- name such retailers. More than one. National, not Bill's Hole in the Wall in Noneck. Wyoming.

Re:Well..

[phantomfive]

Fools pay with cash. When you pay with credit cards, you get cash back.

(And don't make a stupid argument that the price is increased to pay for the "cash back"........of course it is, but the people who pay with cash pay the same price as those who pay with credit cards, just don't get any cash back).

Re:Well..

[jmccue]

Well you are correct, but in reality:

# 1. People do not have the cash, so they need to borrow to buy what they cannot afford. If Credit Cards were to disappear, the world economy will crash faster then it ever has.

Also there seems to be a push worldwide to do away with cash completely, I think a couple of countries already have. What I have read this seems to due with "stop the criminals", but I think is is more like 'monitor the public'.

Plays right into the governments hand

[p51d007]

They WANT cash to disappear...what better way of seeing how many people still use cash, than have CC machines go down on black Friday? Once they are convinced the majority of people use cards instead of cash, they will outlaw the use of cash because the cards are "safer"...and they will also use an anti criminal element to get rid of cash, since a lot of illegal transactions are in cash. It's for your "safety". Once cash is gone, and everything is an electronic blip, the government can see ANYTHING you do. Don't think THIS can't happen. Walk into a fast food place, swipe for a double cheese burger, fries, shake, get rejected because your last government healthcare check up says your BMI was too high. Try to buy a new sports car, get rejected because you've had too many speeding tickets, or the car doesn't get good mileage. DON'T think it can't happen that if the government needs money, or the bank needs money, they just pull 1% of everyone's account. It's already happened in where? Greece?

Re: Plays right into the governments hand

[easyTree]

Watch out!

I hear they're monitoring Aluminium sales. Once you cross the secret threshold, black helicopters will be outside foil-mart waiting to intercept you on your next shopping trip. For safety, distribute your transactions amongst the shell corporations you control.

Re:Plays right into the governments hand

[b0s0z0ku]

I agree that a cashless society would be terrible, but I also think this was a genuine error -- Macy's wouldn't give up a significant % of their sales on a busy shopping day nationwide just to run a test.

Re: Plays right into the governments hand

[slashrio]

I think this 'tinfoil hat' will prove right within 10 years.

Re:Well..

[tk77]

This exactly. I pay with credit cards because i get cash back or points towards things like gift cards for places I actually buy things. I'm paying the same price at the register as someone who is paying cash, except that I get back a percentage of what I'm paying for to reduce the cost of something next time.

Not everyone is using credit cards because they can't afford things. I hardly ever carry a balance on mine and pay them off right away. I also don't like carrying a lot of cash around with me. If someone steals the money off you while your out shopping, you've probably lost it for good. If someone steals your credit card you can simply cancel it and get a new one. Any charges incurred will be wiped away.

O.m.g. Shopping blockade

[easyTree]

This is as serious as a natural disaster.

So?

[Murdoch5]

Who wouldn't take cash with them when they expect to shop on massively busy/overcrowded events? If you didn't take cash, you have nothing to complain about, learn from this and move on.

Re:if u have 2 use a credit card

[DontBeAMoran]

Without credit, most of the american, european and asian retailers would have to close down.

Re:Well..

[DontBeAMoran]

Not to mention that maybe you don't have the cash, but what you want/need has a discount right now, saving you even more money as long as you pay your credit card bill on time.

Re:Cash is king

[DontBeAMoran]

I did.

I'll get back to you in three to four days.

Re:Whadya expect, it's BLACK Friday.

[DontBeAMoran]

Well there's a metric fuckton of snow dropping down around here right now, so it is a white friday.

So glad....

[MerlTurkin]

....I don't do Black Fridays.

Re:So glad....

[b0s0z0ku]

"Doing Black Friday" and shopping online aren't the only two alternatives.

One can buy holiday gifts any time before the holidays, in brick-n-mortar stores, and skip the madness. As far as things like electronics, the market is so saturated that you can buy 95% of what you need on Craigslist, for cash, at a substantial discount from new.

Last year's TV? Who cares? It still works fine. Same with last year's phone, laptop, or iPad. By re-using, you're also minimizing e-waste.

Re:Well..

[0100010001010011]

#2. People expect the machines to be working. Not carrying around $1k or so in a massive crowd is a good idea and you can cancel the cards and do charge backs on unauthorized purchases.

If someone said "We accept cash only" 2 days ahead of time there would be problem.

Re:Well..

[ShanghaiBill]

Also there seems to be a push worldwide to do away with cash completely, I think a couple of countries already have.

No countries have eliminated cash. Sweden has gone the furthest, but even there the cash in circulation has only gone down 7% since the peak in 2011.

Even if "official" money is eliminated, some sort of cash equivalent is likely to arise. In prisons, this is usually cigarettes, which even non-smokers hoard and use for transactions. Way too many people and businesses have a need for anonymous transactions.

I carry a $20 bill inside my cellphone case for emergencies, but otherwise I am cashless and use CCs for nearly all transactions. I pay my CC bill on-time every-time through bank auto-payment so I never pay a cent in interest. I earn about $500 in airline flight credits every year.

Why I pay with cash...

[b0s0z0ku]

If stores get the majority of their payments by cashless means, they'll drop the option of paying in cash. This is bad from a privacy, anonymity, and economic class (immigrants and the poor are more likely to be un-banked) perspective. This also puts more power to track purchases in the hands of governments, banks, and marketeers.

I think of the slight inconvenience as doing my part to slow down the slow erosion of privacy in the US.

Re:Why I pay with cash...

[phantomfive]

That's a good enough reason.

Re:Why I pay with cash...

[slashrio]

I'm with you bro.

Re:Why I pay with cash...

[TheSunborn]

Unbanked? How do you receive your payment without a bank where it can be deposited?

Re:Why I pay with cash...

[b0s0z0ku]

Not the stores.

The purchasers, which are part of the "cash economy", whose existence I fully support. (And yes, I'll take increased crime as a price for private and anonymity.)

Re:Well..

[b0s0z0ku]

Always carry a few hundred ... problem solved. If you're making impulse buys of over a few hundred dollars, that's your problem right there...

Re:Well..

[omnichad]

It has been said that one who values honesty responsible

One who says that is near incomprehensible. What are you trying to say?

I don't carry cash because my wife and I can't both carry the same cash around. Accounting is greatly simplified.

Re:Well..

[DontBeAMoran]

Maybe you missed the maybe you don't have the cash part?

Not everyone has enough money to "carry a few hundred".

Re:Well..

[Fly Swatter]

I pay almost everything with cash, up to a point. I admit though, I am a fool for not demanding a discount when using cash since I am not one of the card monkeys driving the price per transaction up on everything. I am still of the belief that using credit cards for everyday transactions is fools gold, maybe a debit card but not credit - why owe anyone when you don't have to.

Ok, now get your credit card off my lawn.

Re:Well..

[Aereus]

Increase prices 3.5% to get 1% cash back. What a deal!

Re:Well..

[Gojira Shipi-Taro]

Certainly makes life easier for muggers and pick-pockets.

Agree. Paying w/cash is for chumps....

[King_TJ]

Seriously ... I love the concept of cash because it's anonymous and "just works". (No need for a whole computerized back-end processing system for someone to be able to accept it from you.) But the way our whole financial system is run today, you're just losing potential buying power if you don't take advantage of credit cards when buying goods or services from legitimate businesses who can accept them.

Not only that, but if I pay with a credit card, I don't have to risk carrying cash around that can get lost or stolen without any recourse. If they steal my credit card(s), all I have to do is call up and report them stolen and I'm off the hook for anything they manage to spend with them.

And while the true usefulness may be debatable at times, my credit cards do offer to extend the factory warranties on products. (I tried to use it one time with a damaged Apple computer and ultimately didn't have any luck. I can't even remember the details anymore, but recall it being kind of a pain. Lots of photos and documentation the card issuer requested from me about the original transaction and problem, only to determine it didn't qualify for compensation.) But at least it's there as a second option. Some may have better luck than I did.

Cash is what I pull out of the bank only in preparation for doing transactions with individuals or events (like local carnivals) where I know they don't accept credit. I might use it to tip at a restaurant, if I have enough of it in my wallet, too. (Just seems like a small favor I can do for restaurant workers to help ensure they're not getting screwed by their employer who might insist on reporting the tips as taxable income.)

Re:Well..

[b0s0z0ku]

You often do get a discount for cash for certain things ... certain mom 'n pops and gas stations come to mind.

Re:Well..

[b0s0z0ku]

If the world economy is based on debt-bondage of workers and constant expansion at the expense of the environment, then maybe it deserves to crash and burn...

Re:Well..

[tk77]

I sure hope you don't broadcast that you always carry a few hundred dollars on you.

Re:Well..

[phantomfive]

It''s not a deal, but you pay the 3.5% either way. ltr

Re:if u have 2 use a credit card

[BronsCon]

I use credit cards almost exclusively. I pay them in full monthly.

When a card number is stolen, I have 0 liability. I also only spend what I have on hand; again, because I pay the cards in full monthly.

If I get mugged, I call the CC company and report them stolen, I've lost a wallet, but no cash. If you get mugged, you'd better hope you weren't on your way to make a large purchase.

Oh, and I get rewards points for my purchases and still don't pay interest -- because I pay the cards in full monthly.

And if the shit hits the fan one day, I've got all the cash I didn't spend this month, minus minimum payments on the cards, on hand to hold me through next month. What's your safety net look like?

Re:Well..

[BronsCon]

Better than increasing prices 3.5% and getting 0% back. As long as credit cards exist, we'll be paying for them whether we use them or not; might as well use them.

Re:Well..

[slashrio]

The cash back is to lure the sheeple into giving up their cash for a privilege instead of a right to buy things, that can be revoked with the push of a button.

Enemy action

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

...and in a quiet, computer-filled room at Nordstroms' headquarters, a shadowy group sits back and breathes a collective sigh of relief at successfully sabotaging a competitor. "Good job, lads," says the Strike Team leader, "those fuckers at Macy's will never know what hit them."

Re:Well..

[slashrio]

You will pay the price... later.

Re:Well..

[slashrio]

The best thing to do is not spending the money that you don't have.

Re:if u have 2 use a credit card

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

then u cant afford 2 buy it anyway

WRONG.

1) I buy things on a credit card SPECIFICALLY so I can charge it back if there's a problem later on and the merchant won't deal fairly with me. You don't have that assurance with a debit card or with cash.

2) I also pay off my card(s) in full at the end of every month, so yes, I can afford it. :)

Re:Well..

[slashrio]

The tragedy is that you are facilitating the cashless society that is forced upon us in a Edward Bernais way.
Yet you feel so clever... exactly as it is intended, you sheep.

Re:if u have 2 use a credit card

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

I use credit cards almost exclusively. I pay them in full monthly.

That's exactly what my wife and I do. If we can't afford it, we don't buy it, period. We pay off our card in full at the end of every month.

But mainly we buy things on a credit card SPECIFICALLY so we can charge it back if there's a problem later on and the merchant won't deal fairly with us. If you use a debit card or pay with cash, you're at the mercy of the store if anything goes wrong.

Re:Well..

[JustAnotherOldGuy]

If we can't afford it, we don't buy it, period. We pay off our card(s) in full at the end of every month.

We buy things on a credit card SPECIFICALLY so we can charge it back if there's a problem later on and the merchant won't deal fairly with us. If you use a debit card or pay with cash, you're at the mercy of the store if anything goes wrong.

Re:if u have 2 use a credit card

[BronsCon]

Ah yes, chargebacks. I've only had to fall back on those twice in the past decade, but by golly if the issue didn't get resolved immediately! One of them, the vendor claimed they couldn't get their system to accept the refund and suggested the chargeback, so I did it -- and they didn't fight it, so I'm half inclined to believe them.

Both were for services where my other payment option was a check. Total for both transactions? Over $1000. Across 10 years, that's $100/yr I managed to not lose by using a credit card.

Add in rewards, which range on my cards from 1% to 5%, and I pay one month's rent each year with rewards and legitimate chargebacks. In the SF Bay Area where rent ain't cheap.

Suckers, people with something to hide, and gamblers use cash. I do fall into that last category, which is just more incentive for me to not keep cash on hand.

Re:if u have 2 use a credit card

[Darinbob]

Most of those that are hipsters will only shop online anyway, having them going into an actual store would cause an allergic reaction.

Re: Well..

[magarity]

It's not fool's gold. Cash back and various point systems are good as gold. Credit cards are like the stock market. If you have no idea what you're doing and/or have no discipline you get burned. If the opposite, you do quite well

Re:if u have 2 use a credit card

[AvitarX]

Also, if there's a dispute you can often ask the merchant "ate you telling me I need to talk to to get this fixed", they are generally more agreeable then.

Re:Well..

[mjwx]

Fools pay with cash. When you pay with credit cards, you get cash back.

(And don't make a stupid argument that the price is increased to pay for the "cash back"........of course it is, but the people who pay with cash pay the same price as those who pay with credit cards, just don't get any cash back).

Actually, fools believe that they get cash back. People who pay cash pay less.

The TV set you paid £400 for on credit, the guy who paid cash got it for £370.

You see there is a reason no-one outside the US does cashback on credit cards... its because we're smart enough to realise that banks do not offer anyone free cash. If they are its because they're getting it from you in a way that isn't immediately obvious. Of course the Machiavellian brilliance of charging the merchant to give you a pittance back is that you'll defend it.

Meanwhile, I'll continue saving with cash. Enjoy your negative feedback loop.

Re:Well..

[phantomfive]

The TV set you paid £400 for on credit, the guy who paid cash got it for £370.

Yeah that's a lie and you're a liar you rogue, credit card charges aren't that much.