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Russia and The US Fight Over Who Gets To Extradite A Hacker (cnn.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the tug-of-war dept.

An anonymous reader quotes CNN: A young Russian alleged to have masterminded a massive hacking of social networks including LinkedIn and Dropbox is now at the center of an extradition struggle between the United States and Russia. Yevgeniy Nikulin was detained in October 2016, in the Czech Republic capital of Prague, after US authorities issued an international arrest warrant for him. He was on vacation there with his girlfriend. A grand jury indictment filed in 2016 in California charges him with computer intrusion and aggravated identity theft, among other offenses. Nikulin denies all the charges. If convicted of all charges, he could face a maximum sentence of more than 50 years in prison and more than $2 million in fines.

But soon after his arrest, Russian authorities also sought his extradition. The Russian charge referred to the alleged theft from an online money transfer company back in 2009. The amount involved was $3,450... The Foreign Ministry in Moscow said soon afterward it was "actively working with the Czech authorities to prevent the extradition of a Russian citizen to the United States."

56 of 98 comments (clear)

  1. Which? by Mikkeles · · Score: 1

    I wonder which taker he would opt for. I suspect it's six of one and half-a-dozen of the other; really screwed either way.

    --
    Great minds think alike; fools seldom differ.
    1. Re:Which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I don't know the backstory, but based solely on the summary, it sounds more like Russia just wants to get him back home where he won't face much if any punishment rather than letting him go to the US. He will then probably join the Russia "defense" industry (maybe as an offer he can't refuse).

    2. Re: Which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's more likely that he's worked for the Russians before and they don't want him to tell the Americans all the details.

    3. Re:Which? by Jeremy+Erwin · · Score: 1

      I recall reading that Russia likes to recruit suitably experienced criminals into its various cybermischief units (e.g Fancybear, Cozybear, Internet Research Agency). Can't recall the exact link, though.

      "We would like to extradite this young man and offer him a job."

    4. Re: Which? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I recall the US doing the exact same thing.

    5. Re: Which? by piojo · · Score: 1

      Why do you have to ruin an otherwise informative post by bringing up a highly contentious off-topic issue like that?

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
    6. Re: Which? by temcat · · Score: 1

      I'm skeptical of the latest US trend to find Russian influence everywhere. However, I do find this plausible.

    7. Re: Which? by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      +5 Insightful.

      Tinfoil hat much?

      The boogeyman isn't hiding behind every corner.

      Tinfoil? Really? If you give me (and others) a reasonable answer on why would Russia wants the guy with a charge for only $3,450 bank transfer fraud? Why would he be very important to them for that amount of money besides something else? It does not make sense at all.

    8. Re: Which? by Maritz · · Score: 1

      He likes Trump, do you even need to ask?

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
  2. Re:Do they want to jail him or employ him? by YuppieScum · · Score: 1

    They've probably employed him for years...

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    This sig left unintentionally blank.
  3. I don't want him you can't have him by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Funny

    This is just Putin reminding the current US administration who's boss.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:I don't want him you can't have him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What does Tony Danza have to do with it?

    2. Re:I don't want him you can't have him by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 2, Funny

      Relentlessly portraying Putin as the demonic mastermind behind all that's going wrong in the West is wearing a bit thin for me. I have no connection with Russia, but I find much of the Kremlin's critique of Western (particularly US) foreign policy all too reasonable and plausible. Whether it comes from insincere actors or independent commentators, I couldn't care less; it's the content that counts.

      As for Putin himself, he's not the Antichrist. He's just a hard-headed pragmatist trying to keep Russia afloat, using whatever tools he has, which is a pretty unenviable task. The biggest threat to world peace is American imperialism, not Russia.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    3. Re: I don't want him you can't have him by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah we Americans kill political and journalist dissidents under the guise of accidents, too.

      Here's reality: one party will always have more power than others. Which one do you want? If you want Russia, side with them, because they'll do the same thing America does when the tables are turned.

    4. Re:I don't want him you can't have him by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Not to mention signing off on Uranium One, a plot to take control of America's energy resources.

      You know the whole Uranium One story is made up, right? Nobody sold "20% of US uranium" to Russia. No uranium changed hands.

      You accuse CNN of making up lies about Trump and then you bring out "Uranium One"?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    5. Re:I don't want him you can't have him by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      http://www.factcheck.org/2017/...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  4. If he's in Czech, then it's up to them. by mark-t · · Score: 4, Informative

    ... Not the US, not Russia. It's up to the Czech republic to decide which country to let him be extradited to.

    Or, they can decide to not allow him to be extradited at all. Regardless, it's up to them to weigh whatever they estimate the costs to themselves might be for making a decision that is unpopular with somebody else.

    Final answer, it's up the country he's currently in to decide when to allow, where to allow, and even *IF* to allow extradition. Full stop.

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    File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    1. Re: If he's in Czech, then it's up to them. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      After all, this Male is in the Czech.

    2. Re: If he's in Czech, then it's up to them. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      The last time we picked the west, we got burned. So we picked the east, and we got burned. Hey, wait a minute...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re: If he's in Czech, then it's up to them. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      That's about right, yup. My point being that the USA and Russia fighting over it is pointless, because it's not up to either of them.

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      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    4. Re: If he's in Czech, then it's up to them. by mark-t · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Then they aren't really fighting... they are competing. There is a difference. Fighting suggests they are in conflict with eachother directly. Competing suggests that they are trying to each come out ahead of the other in a matter that is actually external to both.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    5. Re: If he's in Czech, then it's up to them. by Hal_Porter · · Score: 1

      No mod points, but well played.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    6. Re: If he's in Czech, then it's up to them. by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      The Czech Republic, EU and NATO member, has to pick a side? This will be a very difficult decision.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    7. Re: If he's in Czech, then it's up to them. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Or, perhaps, I was simply preferring the usage of a more precise term. Competing is a type of fighting, of course, but to suggest that the USA are fighting over an issue when in fact they are actually more correctly competing for it is misleading, at best.

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      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    8. Re:If he's in Czech, then it's up to them. by mark-t · · Score: 1

      My point was that it's actually up to the Czech Republic to allow or disallow it. Disallowing may piss certain people off, or allowing it to the one country when another wanted extradition as well may piss the latter country off. They need to carefully weigh the pros and cons of each of their possible decisions to determine the best course of action. Regardless, the decision is entirely their's, not Russia's and not the USA's.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
  5. Hopefully Russia succeeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    50 years for hacking is retarded, there should be 0 extraditions to the US until they reform their justice system.

    1. Re:Hopefully Russia succeeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is not retarded, it is extremist. The US "justice" system is just as fanatical, violent and absolutely convinced they are doing it right as any other fanatics.

    2. Re:Hopefully Russia succeeds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There is no justice system anywhere in the world. It's all law systems.

    3. Re:Hopefully Russia succeeds by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Would you rather do time in a Russian jail or American jail?

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
  6. its the devil you know... by nimbius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Reminder: Aaron Schwartz was looking at 35 years in prison for nothing more than a clever wget script. Chelsea Manning was looking at 60 years in prison from Government prosecutors. Julian Assange would certainly see a life sentence, and Edward Snowden would likely be rotting in Guantanamo until death.
    Russia might not have the most open and free system of legal justice, but the US incarcerates more people than any other country in the world, including North Korea. You might want to roll the dice and see if Russia will at least attempt to be reasonable

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:its the devil you know... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Russia might not have the most open and free system of legal justice, but the US incarcerates more people than any other country in the world, including North Korea. You might want to roll the dice and see if Russia will at least attempt to be reasonable

      Plus, I hear you get all the free tea you can drink on the flight to Russia.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:its the devil you know... by blindseer · · Score: 3, Funny

      the US incarcerates more people than any other country in the world

      We're number one!!! WOOOO! Yeah!

      USA! USA! USA! USA! USA! USA!

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    3. Re:its the devil you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Russia might not have the most open and free system of legal justice, but the US incarcerates more people than any other country in the world, including North Korea. You might want to roll the dice and see if Russia will at least attempt to be reasonable

      Plus, I hear you get all the free tea you can drink on the flight to Russia.

      TFTFY.

    4. Re:its the devil you know... by dabadab · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You might want to roll the dice and see if Russia will at least attempt to be reasonable

      The problem with you, Americans, is that you are too comfortably couched in your democracy and rule of the law. Yes, it is not perfect but if you think it is anything near what goes on in Russia that clearly shows how clueless you are.

      --
      Real life is overrated.
    5. Re:its the devil you know... by meerling · · Score: 2

      The US incarcerates more people than North Korea, and our entire prison system is severely screwed up, but you can bet that North Korea murders/kills/executes more people, even if they don't brag about it.

    6. Re:its the devil you know... by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1, Troll

      > Reminder: Aaron Schwartz was looking at 35 years in prison for nothing more than a clever wget script.

      This is incorrect. Aaron Swartz [check spelling] was attempting to download all of JSTOR, and its index information, in order to republish it for free. Doing this was not only criminal. It was stealing the resources of a non-profit which collects information and publishes, organized and usable, for medical and scientific research all over the world. It could make the resources available, for a short period, at a reduced burden, but would reduce or even eliminate the resources to collect and organize the data for the next year, or the year after that. It was not only shortsighted, but the excessive resources used for downloading crashed JSTOR services and made them unavailable to the students, the doctors, and the scientists who use it every day. JSTOR could not continue to supply MIT with service under this stress, and that would cut off a vital library resource for approximately 25,000 employees and students at MIT.

      The others are different stories, but for Aaron Swartz, he already had a competent legal team funded by other people who saw his action as a "free speech" issue. It was not: it was theft of millions of dollars worth of intellectual property in the organization and cross-linking of JSTOR, and of unauthorized reproduction of copyrighted material that JSTOR makes available for licensed use.

    7. Re:its the devil you know... by Fallen+Kell · · Score: 1

      Chelsea Manning was looking at 60 years in prison from Government prosecutors.

      Except Manning was facing those 60 for leaking classified materials. There were/are proper ways to whistleblow on classified projects and there are ways which it isn't proper. If you go outside the bounds dealing with classified materials and deliberately release them (please note, deliberate is different than inadvertent), you can expect to be facing significant amount of time in jail.

      --
      We were all warned a long time ago that MS products sucked, remember the Magic 8 Ball said, "Outlook not so good"
    8. Re:its the devil you know... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      I think you meant 'more people per capita.'

    9. Re:its the devil you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As an American, I'm still trying to wrap my head around how a 'Gran Jury' indictment in the state of California, warrants an International arrest warrant.

      The leap of authority there is baffling to me, how seemingly simple it appears state or even Federal US law, can suddenly extend beyond US borders.

      International Treaties are one thing. This however, just doesn't seem right to me at all.

    10. Re:its the devil you know... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      What rule of law would that be? The one that incarcerates more people than anyone on the planet? What democracy would that be? The one that produced the worst President ever in history? I don't see Russia using drones to kill their own citizens. I don't see Russia issuing international arrest warrants over trivial issues. I think you need to take a step back, stop waving the flag like a patriotic MORAN, and take a long, hard look at yourselves. America is a horrible country compared to the rest of the world. Russia isn't even close.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    11. Re:its the devil you know... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The United States has the largest prison population in the world, and the second-highest per-capita incarceration rate, behind Seychelles (which in 2014 had a total prison population of 735 out of a population of around 92,000). In 2013 in the USA, there were 698 persons incarcerated per 100,000 population.

      Nope. =/

    12. Re: its the devil you know... by locketine · · Score: 1

      Strangely enough, Obama pardoned Chelsea Manning and didn't pardon Edward Snowden. Yet Edward went through all the proper channels and followed proper procedure for handling a leak of classified materials. I wonder what exactly was considered during the pardons; time served perhaps?

      --
      Think globally but act within local variable scope.
    13. Re:its the devil you know... by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Mentioning the drone strikes is kind of stupid given that Russia had two civil wars in the past 25 years, and that is killing their own citizens by the very definition. Air strikes against field commanders were quite common back then.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    14. Re:its the devil you know... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      GO USA

      GET A BRAIN MORANS

      You idiots crack me up. LOL.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    15. Re:its the devil you know... by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      The USA certainly executes more people than Russia, though -- even if you count Russia's extrajudicial executions/assassinations.

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    16. Re:its the devil you know... by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      Because clearly, incarceration numbers, regardless of what those people did, is the key metric to determine if a society is just or not. Never mind that North Korea is more likely to just execute people who disagree with the government... Talk about infantile logic.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    17. Re:its the devil you know... by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      Executing murderers who have been duly tried in a court of law by a jury of citizens and afforded every opportunity of due process and appeal is so far from what goes on in Russia or most of the rest of the world it is incomparable. The fact that you cannot grasp that simple fact makes you a microcepallic in the first degree and not worth further conversation...

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
  7. Who wants the vacation in Prague? by John.Banister · · Score: 1

    How is it that we can't afford trials for more than half of our indictments at home, but we can afford to try and inflict our domestic laws on people in Prague? Surely Microsoft and Dropbox do enough business in the Czech Republic to file local charges there, or is it just that they already have the California criminal justice system on retainer?

    1. Re:Who wants the vacation in Prague? by Tranzistors · · Score: 1

      we can afford to try and inflict our domestic laws on people in Prague

      Not sure what you mean. Extradition implies that a person has committed crimes in another country and is if he is extradited, he will be tried in that country, not in Czechia.

    2. Re:Who wants the vacation in Prague? by John.Banister · · Score: 1

      Extradition implies that the person being accused is in a different country from the prosecutor making the accusation. It doesn't speak to the location of the crime. This fellow is accused of having accessed computers that are located in California via the internet. The warrant doesn't speak to his physical location when he did this, but odds are he was in Russia then. He came out of Russia on vacation, and these prosecutors want to snatch him up before he returns to Russia where they don't have access to him. However, the companies he's accused of having harmed also do business in Czechia, so why not try him there instead of paying airfare to transport him to California so that they can add him to the underfunded overcrowded California prison system, all for stroking the ego of some prosecutor who wants to be able to say he can reach across the world and snatch people up. Really, no other country should extradite non-violent criminals to the USA until we deprivatize our prisons and fund them adequately (which adequate funding would be impossible with for-profit prisons, since the funds would be siphoned off by the investors).

  8. Re:Do they want to jail him or employ him? by Cederic · · Score: 2

    That was my immediate interpretation, yeah.

    50 years in a US prison - or share some details about your work. No wonder the Russians don't want him over there.

  9. Re:The Czech are already sucking American dick by Hal_Porter · · Score: 3, Informative

    Gee, I wonder why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
  10. Also by Anubis350 · · Score: 1

    He's a Russian citizen, it's likely that after the US imprisons him he'd be kicked back to Russia anyway for whatever they're going to jail him for, but if Russia does first there's a decent chance he can avoid the US part of the equation at least

    --
    "goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
  11. I can't be fully sorry for him by guacamole · · Score: 2

    If this man is allegedly intelligent enough to break into Linkedin and Dropbox, than he should have known better than travel to a country that's an enthusiastic EU and NATO member. This is not a first. Some of the Russian black hat hackers or mobsters think they can con either russian companies or individuals or western, and then retire in some nice quiet bucolic place like Greece, Spain, or Czech republic.

  12. Russian Red Team by Martin+S. · · Score: 1

    The Russian charge is from 2009, so why the long wait, it is because they suddenly want him back when faced with a warrant from the Americans.

    My money is that he part of their red team.

  13. The Czechs should auction him off by schwit1 · · Score: 1

    Extradition ebay. See how badly they want him.