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After Two Months of Quiet, North Korea Launches Another Ballistic Missile (arstechnica.com)
South Korean and U.S. officials have confirmed that North Korea has launched another ballistic missile into the sea of Japan. The ballistic missile test -- launched just after 3am Wednesday local time from Sin-ni in South Pyongyang -- is the first since an intermediate-range missile test in September. Ars Technica reports: In a statement to the press, a spokesperson for South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff said, "North Korea fired an unidentified ballistic missile early this morning from Pyongsong, South Pyongan [Province], to the east direction. South Korea's Joint Chiefs of Staff is analyzing more details of the missile with the U.S. side." The U.S. Department of Defense and the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) have made an initial assessment that the missile was an ICBM, according to Office of the Secretary of Defense spokesperson Col. Robert Manning. The missile traveled 1,000 kilometers, flew over Japan, and landed in the sea east of Japan within its exclusive economic zone.
So are you advocating a "wait and see" attitude? Maybe we should continue to hope China can be a "positive influence" on them? That didn't work out so well for Neville Chamberlain who hoped to use the Italians and the French to temper Hitler's ambitions.
It's only a matter of time before this blows up in the faces of the civilized world. Better to deal with it sooner than wait until NK is bristling with nuclear armed ballistic missiles. They have proven time and again to be untrustworthy.
After WW2 they adopted a doctrine of passivity. They don't even have their own nukes. The deal is the US defends them. We are their primary military defense.
So the pundits are already saying we need to just back off and use diplomacy. Now, if NK landed an ICBM off the coast of California, would they suddenly sing a different tune?
Roughly, this is the time line I have watched unfold over my lifetime:
1. Don't worry, NK is a joke. Maintain the DMZ and they will eventually warm up to the international community and we can all hold hands.
2. The rumor that they are working on nuclear weapons is preposterous. They lack the sophistication. Maintain the status quo and eventually we will be friends.
3. Okay so they developed the atomic bomb. Don't worry, it's not like they can make more and those things are to big to put on a missile anyway. Not to mention, they lack the sophistication to even build an ICBM and always will.
4. Oh, they made a long range missile. Never mind that they flew one over Japan, it's all good! It's still not an ICBM and it's not like they have the capacity to make a bunch more and will certainly never develop a full ICBM. Besides, they will never be able to develop the h bomb they would for a nuke payload. Slap on some more sanctions, be diplomatic and before you know it we will be be great friends!
5. Oh, so now they have ICBM technology, they are still flying them right over Japan, and they have the h bomb. No worries! Slap on some more sanctions and soon enough we will all be friends! It's not like they would ever actually nuke Japan, SK, or the USA. That is just silly!
Next. After NK nuked Japan, SK, and San Francisco, international confusion and military paranoia ensued. Everyone launched everything at everyone. Now there is no one left to comment.
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It's not their "jurisdiction". It is their neighborhood. But any conflict they get into is also our conflict, due to our commitment to their security.
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I've seen various estimates showing that Japan could have nukes in short order if they desired. They have all of the relevant tech, the expertise, the money, and the raw materials. Certainly not advocated for them to build them, but it would likely be a relatively trivial exercise for them to develop nuclear arms.
"Jap" is just short for Japanese. It is no different than saying "Brit" or "Yank". If you give Japanese people a form that has a field for "nationality", instead of writing out "ni-hon-jin", they will usually write a single kanji that basically means "Jap" (but in other contexts can mean "day" or "sun"). If they abbreviate their nationality down to one syllable, then why can't we?
... with NK.
It's Japan's jurisdiction.
Sadly, this really ignorant post is currently modded "Insightful", which it most certainly is not. And I have no mod points to mod it down with.
North Korea has no diplomatic relations with Japan, nor is it interesting in "settling" any issue at all with Japan. The purpose of the ballistic missiles is to threaten the USA. The only player in this game that North Korea wants to settle anything with is the USA. And just so you know, in the past a Japanese administration tried the "play nice" tactic with North Korea and it didn't accomplish anything except end up with Japan giving up food aid for nothing in return.
Not any more. No one is brave enough to deliver it and risk getting dropped into a tank of sharks.
Or did Kim Jong Goon eat the sharks already?
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As opposed to the brilliant job Obama did?
Do dream and think you can just ignore NK they are not going away. Either they arm themselves with full nuclear weapons or Trump does something.
Also if they have Nukes other will buy them off them (infact chances are they are being funded to do this development by others who want Nukes but not the heat of developing Nukes.) Others would be including terrorists (if you don't actually count NK as terrorists.)
A little patience and it will all work out and whiners who say that Trump does it all wrong will be kept safe by him doing it wrong so well that he ends up stopping them totally. Side note, we are at war there is just a lull in the fighting.
Lots of folks like it. Especially The dropping bombs part. After Saddam and Gaddafi disarmed we invaded and bombed. You think North Korea learned nothing from that? We as a nation are not to be trusted.
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You are being deliberately obtuse. The US is bound by treaty to defend Japan. If you didn't know that before, you certainly do after reading my last comment. Treaties have the force of law. So any security problem for Japan is a security problem for the US, even if you neglect the thousands of US troops stationed in (drumroll) Japan.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/0...
Japan is not allowed to protect its own sovereignty militarily. The United States assumed full responsibility for Japan's military defense. It's not like the NATO treaty, we required Japan to be militarily helpless and completely dependant on the United States militarily. Japan is allowed defensive forces only and those forces are not allowed to leave Japan.
Better than President Obama's policy of strategic patience, where you simply wait until the other side has violated every condition and exhausted all your options. Then it's too late, and it's now called strategic neglect. Ignoring a problem and hoping it goes away usually doesn't work in real life...
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Even though by every objective measure he's doing *far* worse?
If by "adults", you mean Putin, I have to say I'm not quite comfortable putting "this mess" in his hands.
You are welcome on my lawn.
There have been sanctions on North Korea (even more stringent than the current ones) on and off for decades. They've never worked.
Trump loves to point to the status quo and then credit himself with a win. You're so besotted with him that you buy it every time.
You are welcome on my lawn.
North Korea has no diplomatic relations with Japan, nor is it interesting in "settling" any issue at all with Japan.
That's not correct. Japan has been discussing the issue of kidnappings for decades, and NK has made some quite considerable concessions. There is also a small population of NK citizens living in Japan, with a school and some NGOs based in Tokyo.
Japan is one of the major routes in to NK for visitors too. NK likes to host international sporting events like the Pyongyang marathon, with Japanese athletes competing and Japan acting as a gateway for travel.
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It's not that simple. There are posts in this thread that claim knowledge of Japan being able to make a bunch of nukes overnight. Not to mention a home grown nuke needs to be tested, and courtesy of the test ban treaty, they can only be tested underground. Japan does not have a whole lot of "underground". Not to mention the potential of waking up Godzilla.
Seriously though, the US would never give Japan a bunch ICBM tipped nukes in silos. The international insanity that would follow would make the current international climate pale in comparison. So the Japanese Defense Force is technically a military, but Japan has no Army. The entirety of their military infrastructure is geared specifically towards defensive measures. While in light of the escalating NK program there is talk in Japan of changing this, but reorganizing their military is also not something that can happen overnight.
I suggest looking into the "Treaty of Mutual Cooperation and Security between the United States and Japan". If fact there is a lot of contextual history and subjects like the "San Francisco System" and the "Yoshida Doctrine" the last of which is still largely applicable today.
Rather than writing a whole research paper in a post, I am going to leave it there for you to research. I imagine people will read this post and try to call me out on "this and that has changed, and then there is this and that". I am aware of these things. The bottom line is we have an overwhelming military force in Japan for a reason. We protect Japan, for better or worse. It really is all very complicated.
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That's a lovely blanket statement you make... Just because there are treaties that he believes are badly negotiated and wishes to withdraw, I doubt that he takes such a stance on all treaties we are party to, especially enough to call it "generally". A few cases does not make a majority.
> My speculation is that Trump is trying to provoke Kim Jong "Rocket Man" Un to do something rash
My speculation is that Trump has an ego only outsized by his mouth, and he has no plan at all beyond trying to out-insult NK. He's a stupid egotistical hypersensitive bully, and simply doesn't have a complicated playbook to draw on.
The difference between my speculation and yours is that mine explains everything he's said and done and yours... well, yours doesn't.