Slashdot Mirror
Shouting 'Pay Your Taxes', Activists Occupy Apple Stores in France (marketwatch.com)
An anonymous reader quotes MarketWatch:
A group of global activists stormed and occupied several Apple Stores in France on Saturday in a move aimed at pressuring the company to pay up on a €13 billion ($15.5 billion) tax bill to the European Union. In a press release, the France unit of the Association for the Taxation of Financial Transactions and Citizen's Action organization (Attac), said 100 of its members occupied the Opera Apple Store in Paris, demanding the company pay its taxes... Attac said dozens of protests were organized at other Apple store locations throughout France on Saturday. In the Paris store, activists were seen via videos circulating on Twitter, pushing past security and hanging a banner that said "We will stop when Apple pays." Security in Paris reportedly evacuated Apple workers from the building as those protests began.
After three hours they left the store -- leaving behind protest messages on the iPads on display. The group claims that Apple has stashed $230 billion in tax havens around the world, but also hopes to raise awareness about other issues.
"Attac said the action was part of the #PhoneRevolt movement aimed at highlighting unfair practices by Apple, that are not just about taxes, but also pollution via extraction of metals for its phones, worker exploitation and driving a global consumption binge."
After three hours they left the store -- leaving behind protest messages on the iPads on display. The group claims that Apple has stashed $230 billion in tax havens around the world, but also hopes to raise awareness about other issues.
"Attac said the action was part of the #PhoneRevolt movement aimed at highlighting unfair practices by Apple, that are not just about taxes, but also pollution via extraction of metals for its phones, worker exploitation and driving a global consumption binge."
Giant corporations don't pay taxes, they evade them. Then they hoard more money by using $2/hr Chinese labor which is illegal anywhere else but okay since it is across a line on a map and in China. Then they buy out their competition and use frivolous IP lawsuits to limit new competition. There, now you know everything you need to know in order to become a member of the Corporatist movement and control your elected official using money.
... went to the nearby Starbucks to Twitter about their "action", and posting their selfies on Instagram and Facebook using their iPhones.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
Yes, it is much better to always accept things as they are and never complain.
Avantgarde Hebrew science fiction
Seems like they are awake. Taxes are what holds up and maintains infrastructure, health, food and shelter for the poor.
Go after your poiticians. They're the ones who enable this shit.
Apple has done nothing wrong. They are jsut taking advantage of existing law.
"Why did they put that killer in jail, when he brushed his teeth every day?"
Your first assumption is that you can weight these things against each other, and your second assumption is that this must be done. Why? The only place where boiling ethics down to a boolean is effective is in Hollywood movies.
Greenpeace has done many poorly thought out (IMO) attacks on apple. When pressed they admit that apple does better than quite a few global players but pulling the stunts on them don't get any press coverage. So they attack apple.
Same old, same old. Different players, using taxes as their pivot then mumble waving about the environment.
It's all about press.
A better shout.
Oh, I wasn't under the impression that Apple uses their own private road network in the EU, but I am clearly mistaken.
Oh, I wasn't under the impression that Apple uses their own private road network in the EU, but I am clearly mistaken.
Does Apple use roads at all? Their contractors and customers and employees probably do, but then those people pay taxes for fuel and VAT and income and whatever else. So the road users pay for the roads they use. Any other reason Apple should pay?
Apple is receiving a lot
Such as ...?
What are they offering for the greater good?
Phones. Software. Maps. Email. Cloud storage. Communications. Payment services. Publishing services. Apple makes products. Apple customers judge those products good.
Government services like protection of the glass storefronts of their stores.
Presumably they pay property taxes (or rent that ultimately goes to pay for property taxes) to cover the cost of law enforcement protection of their property.
And IP protection of their software and their designs.
I haven’t read the treaty, but I think Europe protects foreign IP in exchange for the US and other countries protecting European IP. If Europe wants out of that treaty, there's probably a way to end it. I doubt the treaty allows for holding IP protection hostage for a tax grab.
they have to play by the rules. They are not.
That's a goddamned lie. If anything, they're paying too damned much. They should be far more proactive in minimizing their tax payments, the way that GE does.
Apple has a duty to their shareholders (like me) to keep as much of our money out of government's greedy hands as possible.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Yes, it is much better to always accept things as they are and never complain.
There is a middle ground: They could educate themselves, and then direct their outrage more constructively. For instance, if the French don't like their tax laws, perhaps they should complain to their politicians rather than to a company that is behaving legally.
Centralized commerce requires concentrated customers. Concentrated customers only exist in cities, and cities also decrease costs for businesses with agglomeration economies, but cost money for maintenance. Cities are supported by their nation. Taxes for all are mandatory. Disagree and you can go try making and selling shit in Somalia. In which case, good luck - a pirate will shoot your clerks, steal your products, and take you hostage to be killed unless paid promptly.
Oh yes, I'm sure the taxes that an Apple store shop assistant pays totally cover the road maintenance needed by trucks full of iPhones. ...
Not to mention the cost on the judicial system imposed by endless IP litigation.
Or the police investigation needed to track down that crate full of Macs that mysteriously disappeared from logistics.
Or...
Or...
Are you seriously so gullible to believe that a corporation doesn't represent a cost on public infrastructure higher that the sum of its singular employees?
Cities didn't get created to help Apple. Cities were built by the people, for the benefit of the people. The people should pay their own way, for their own benefit — not try to get someone else to pay their way for them.
Since Apple's corporate headquarters is in the U.S., we get the money first.
Why would you get the money? Apple isn't the subject of a US court battle about the US not collecting taxes from Apple properly. Apple pays as much taxes in the USA as is required by law, unlike in the EU where it was found their tax agreement with Ireland was illegal.
EU countries impose massive tax burdens relative to the rest of the world
No kidding; For example, DSLRs can only make 29 minute, 59 second video clips because a camera that can take >= 30 minute clips is a "movie camera" under EU laws and triggers a much higher tax. So our Canons and Nikons in the US and the rest of the world have that limit too.
Apple directly benefits from all of those location factors and more in terms of services or they would not have stores anywhere, and would teleport products after being telepathically sold. Or go bankrupt
DSLRs can only make 29 minute, 59 second video clips because a camera that can take >= 30 minute clips is a "movie camera" under EU laws and triggers a much higher tax. So our Canons and Nikons in the US and the rest of the world have that limit too.
It's trivial to issue different firmwares for different regions, companies do this all the time. I imagine, though, that there are unofficial patches to remove that limit from at least some cameras.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Oh yes, I'm sure the taxes that an Apple store shop assistant pays totally cover the road maintenance needed by trucks full of iPhones.
You thing Apple owns trucks? More likely they contract with a shipping company. The shipping company pays fuel and VAT and other taxes to cover their share of road maintenance.
Complaining to their politicians would never have made the front page of international newspapers to raise awareness about the issues surrounding the current tax laws.
#DeleteFacebook
Why?
In exchange for what government services?
Police who will come to your store and arrest trespassers and thieves comes to mind.
If Apple doesn't want to pay taxes, then there shouldn't be any penalties for people who steal from Apple's stores.
They should seize all iPhones and install Android :D
Requiem for the American Dream
Well, the US is about to ruin the internet for everyone and then there's the whole continuous wars thing. Maybe EU taxes aren't so bad by comparison.
Requiem for the American Dream
Government services like healthcare to keep an army of n00bs healthy enough to keep buying iPhones?
Requiem for the American Dream
Apple's headquarters are in the US but it also has branches in the EU, and these branches depend on the laws of the country they are in.
So when Apple Ireland makes a sale in the EU, it has to pay taxes to Ireland, like any Irish company. And Apple France has to pay taxes in France. That the headquarters are in the US doesn't matter. And it's a good thing, otherwise, the headquarters would have been quickly relocated to a tax heaven.
Requiem for the American Dream
Complaining to their politicians would never have made the front page of international newspapers to raise awareness about the issues surrounding the current tax laws.
There is already plenty of awareness. I have seen dozens of front page articles about Apple's tax dispute with the EU.
But awareness is not enough. It is important to take action, and to direct that action appropriately. A good example is the reaction on both the left and the right to America's financial bailout. The left reacted with "Occupy Wall Street", which focused on street protests against the companies that received the bailout. The right reacted with the "Tea Party" and focused on electoral politics, endorsing candidates that met their approval, and promoting challengers to those that did not.
OWS never articulated any clear objectives, has now faded away, and is mostly forgotten.
The Tea Party, meanwhile, has taken over the Republican Party and is now running the country.
Lesson learned: Proper focus makes a difference.
Do they still funnel dough through Ireland? It's up to the French government and the EU to close any loopholes.
It seems not unreasonable to me for Apple's retail arm in France to be registered as a French business. If they rent buildings in Paris and other cities, employ local workers and collect French sales tax then they should pay the same proportion of tax as Gerard's Boutique d'Ordinateurs (pardon mon franÃais!) on the corner.
Is this not happening? A relative here in Australia was surprised when an Apple product purchased locally in a shop put Singapore on the bill.
"Appleâ(TM)s Irish tax arrangements have allowed it to pay tax at a rate of 3.8 percent on $200 billion of overseas profits"
From this article.
So that is 7.6 *billion* dollars in taxes that Apple has paid to the EU in taxes.
Not to mention, that for every expensive Apple device sells, the EU is of course collecting a tax of taxes (VAT) atop that as well. All just because Apple has physically located a store there. The taxes collected alone on sales must be many more billions.
Again, just for Apple having a store located in that country or city.
Do you seriously think the tiny impact of Apple having a store in those countries is not more than offset by the taxes already paid? Apple has paid for roads, security, and far more out of the very large amount of money Apple has collected and paid in taxes.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Name-calling is neither reasoned nor persuasive.
Apple's sweetheart tax deal with Ireland was found to be illegal.
Parts of the EU did not get far beyond Minitel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... .
The modern Internet then offered technology and information to many parts of the EU.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
AC, A company has to pay some tax in most normal nations.
If a country has set a low tax rate to attract jobs and investment then that is the tax rate that has to be paid.
The private sector has to pay a tax rate set a gov.
The private sector still has the freedom just move its jobs to areas better suited to support capitalism.
Why not put some effort into creating good private sector jobs?
Allowing more people to study for jobs that pay well?
When the private sector invests, show some support that company and then attract more private sector investors to the area?
Instead of all that effort focused on one company why not try and attract 10 other companies to the area?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Actually, EU corporate taxes are generally lower than US corporate taxes. That's why US corporations keep their money overseas.
European tax systems tend to me more fair: the European middle class, which receives most of the benefits from taxation, pays considerably higher taxes than the US middle class; that is, they pay what they use and balance their budgets.
The US middle class still deludes itself into believing that they can continue to get free stuff by taxing the wealthy and running up a massive debt.
I mean, protesters got the 40 hour work week, ended segregation in the US and South Africa, and a lot of other benefits. That's not nothing.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
The EU already said there is no loophole, Ireland simply made false promises to Apple.
Loopholes don't spring into existence just because your lawyer waved his hands and said words; if it was a dubious theory that was never tested in court, you had no reason to believe it was actually a loophole!
Police who will come to your store and arrest trespassers and thieves comes to mind.
That would be the Irish police in Ireland. The EU doesn't have a police force.
Have gnu, will travel.
VAT is not a "tax of taxes." That is just silliness.
And anyways, who cares? "Your honor, I did steal that money, but last week I gave a smaller amount of money to a charity. That makes it OK." "*Bang!*Bang* Maximum sentence!"
This is slashdot, if he "learned" something from the movies other than how to repeat Monty Python lines, that passes as expert knowledge.
Doesn't sound like any did, so I guess Apple got exactly what they paid for: nothing. They should have grabbed some loot while they were at it.
I've never understood why the French just don't manufacture and use their own phones, computers and operating systems.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Cities didn't get created to help Apple. Cities were built by the people, for the benefit of the people. The people should pay their own way, for their own benefit — not try to get someone else to pay their way for them.
Anyone who wants to be part of the collective has to pay the tax that the collective demands. Apple included.
I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
If only MLK and his followers would stop their boycotts and protests and informed themselves of the political process they'd get so much more.
MLK's boycotts and protests always had clear and specific objectives. Integrate the buses in Montgomery. Raise the wages of garbagemen in Memphis. Etc. There was always a clear point where he could declare victory, and move on to the next objective.
He was also very skilled at working with politicians, especially Lyndon Johnson.
Contrast MLK with OWS or BLM, neither of which has any clear objectives or accomplishments.
Someone should rip your face off and stuff it in a toilet. You are that stupid.
Unless France is as stupid as it leads the world to believe, Apple pays property and business taxes for its stores. The tax haven stuff is for profits on actual sales.
You are a bigoted piece of shit. You should be raped up the ass with a Samsung S5 and then killed.
Or maybe reality will set it and France will cease to exist, as no one will be working at all.
I appreciate the efforts taken. But protesting against a company that behaves immorally is the epitome of silliness.
Companies aren't obliged to have a moral; They merely need to obey the law. They must explore every way of making money and optimizing costs. Their competitors will do likewise.
Go after politicians that created opportunities for companies to optimize their taxes to an absurd level. Hell you can even use your actual influence and vote to try and accomplish your goal and make tax laws more fair.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
Well, I believe this concept to be outdated. A bit like the "intellectual Property transfer rights". Nowadays, the paptent holder for IP rights dwelves in tiny european countries. The countries made a business model out of stealing fiscal product of their neighbor. Nobody complains, because everybody uses them. Hell the president of the european commission was the "tax evader in chief" as head stateman of Luxembourg for the better part of his career. Honestly, It would be much simpler to tax the benefits of the company based on their profit, country by country. After all, what is the meaning of the location of the headquarter of a multinational in our connected world ? Nowadays, Apple transfered its headquarter in a tiny british Island known for its very low corporate tax (zero). https://www.nytimes.com/2017/1... Oudated context.
---
By the way I apologies my dear US friend, I'm French...
Undoing mod.... I am french too , and the reason people do not protest that much about total, is that apple is far more in the news, and news about total tax far less you have to dig and keep yourself informed (*). Otherwise those hippie activist (yes I know some of them, and they are the 2017 hippies)= would protest a dirty , co2 making , petrol station than apple. But they are as a group (at least those I speak to) utterly uninformed (*). It isn't about foreign company AT ALL. If you knew anything about those activist you would know that. As for the mod, at best this parent would be "interesting" as an opinion or "informative" if you stretch it but nowhere near insightful.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
So that is 7.6 *billion* dollars in taxes that Apple has paid to the EU in taxes.
So your argument is that Apple should pay a lower tax rate because the make a lot of money?
Out of interest, which political wing do you identify with?
SJW n. One who posts facts.
EU countries impose massive tax burdens relative to the rest of the world. Excessive taxation, especially for how EU countries spend the money, is unjust. Refusing to pay unfair and excessive taxes is a moral position. Apple should continue to not pay the taxes, and they are completely justified in that position.
We get a good universal healthcare system, good welfare state, good education system and decent infrastructure for our money. You may think we're taxed to death but the tax burden per capita in the UK for the NHS is the same as the tax burden per capita of Medicare/Medicaid is for the US yet we get a healthcare system where it is free to use for all. We also get things provided for free that are an additional cost in the USA. We don't pay a separate charge through our local taxes for the fire department for example.
I'd rather keep paying the taxes and have what we have than not do and end up living in a first world country where highway bridges are collapsing and people go bankrupt because they get ill.
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
France has a long history of this kind of protest taking place and getting results. From framers shutting down roads to campaigners against poverty openly robbing supermarkets, politicians take notice and stuff gets done. Of course, sometimes the protesters find themselves in the minority, but even then it tends to settle the issue for a while and stop them agitating.
The French incorporated protest into their democracy, unlike many other countries where politicians are always looking for ways to marginalize and ignore such things. It's a good system because it results in fewer protests overall and a more participatory democracy.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Apple has subsidiaries in Europe. They do a huge amount of business in Europe. They employ Europeans, who have their education and healthcare partially or fully funded by taxation. They use European infrastructure. They own property in Europe, like the Apple store being protested at. They advertise in Europe, they pay European sales tax. They have to abide by European data protection and consumer laws.
Apple should pay its fair share of taxes, or get out of Europe. They won't do the latter because it is a huge, profitable market for them. They want the profit, they just don't want to pay for the privilege of operating here.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
"AppleÃ(TM)s Irish tax arrangements have allowed it to pay tax at a rate of 3.8 percent on $200 billion of overseas profits"
From this article.
So that is 7.6 *billion* dollars in taxes that Apple has paid to the EU in taxes.
Or to put it another way, it's at least 50 *billion* that Apple dodged paying to the EU in taxes.
The corporation tax rate in France is 33%. It varies around Europe but 25-30% is typical.
Again, just for Apple having a store located in that country or city.
No. It includes everything they sell on iTunes to French citizens. It includes all the paid services they offer to French customers like repairs, battery replacements and cloud storage. It includes all the business services they offer in France like Siri integration. This stuff is so significant that Apple set up a French subsidiary to manage it all, and also to dodge paying tax on it.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
They used to, but they were pushed out of the market by foreign competitors that don't pay their taxes.
Enjoy your next movie.
Requiem for the American Dream
Hang on, what are you saying?
Why should the overall tax rate for my company be 10 times higher than it it for Apple?
Are you saying this is fair?
And thanks for mentioning VAT - that's tax that the consumer pays, not the business. So, no only to I pay a higher tax rate, I also get to pay extra tax as a consumer that Apple doesn't pay.
Well, at least I'm paying to have a civilized country.
"The best part? I became an ordained minister while not wearing pants." -- CleverNickName
You would be suprised to learn that France is one of the very few countries in the world with a truly independent computer platform development. Their national architecture split from the earliest generation of IBM360 in the 1960s and the BULL company developed it further independently. French electronic industry however is not cost-competitive in the post-Cold War world, so their architecture is only used in military and nuclear industrial applications nowadays.
For example, the french Dassault Rafale fighter jet has the world's most advanced electronic warfare computer system called SPECTRE. It is able to receive and analyze enemy radar signals in REAL-TIME and uses a specialized mini-supercomputer Fourier core to generate "counter-phase" signals onboard, which are then fed to gallium-based power modules and emitted back towards the enemy radar, so the factual and faux radar returns cancel each other out completely and Evil Regime (TM) sees nothing. That's one huge tour-de-force in hightech, which neither Russia, Japan or USA can imitate currently.
In essence the Rafale jet is both aerodynamic and stealthly at the same time, without the need to use cumbersome geometric stealth shapes in US fashion (remember how ungainly the F-117 looks) or the need for any exotic, high-maintenance and very poisonous paint materials on the fuselage surfaces to supress radar return. (In comparison the F-22 Raptor needs partial repainting every time it flies through rain or wet bulb clouds.) That enables frenchies to operate the Rafale on their aircraft carrier, while USA is currently unable to meet the heavy maintenance requirements of stealth planes onboard its CVNs.
That's the power of (admittedly low-visibility) french computing technology.
On the philosophical side, your argument is only valid if there is somewhere left to go that is not part of the collective. (Yes, I know Apple wants to be part of the collective, but the whole idea of social contracts bug me.)
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
The Tea Party, meanwhile, has taken over the Republican Party and is now running the country.
Lesson learned: Proper focus makes a difference.
Yeah, and they even elected a president with a strong Anti Wall Street rhetoric. Who put more Wall Street men into his cabinet than any before. And will now deregulate the banks so they again screw over the world. All Hail Trump!
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
NO. All the money in EU is evaded to Ireland where Apple pays (almost) no taxes at all because of some illegal agreement between Apple and Ireland. Protesters don't ask Apple to pay their taxes in France they ask Aple to pay the real deal to Ireland
No, cities didn't get created to help Apple, so why should they get to use them for free when everyone else has to pay?
Your comment was tagged as insightfull, but i'd rather say it's naive, and actually not insightfull at all...
It's not a problem of French tax law, it's not even a problem of EU tax law, it's a problem of Ireland playing the "tax paradise" card, offering low tax harbor for enterprise like Apple, which can then deliver freely in Europe (due to tax free market inside all European Union).
Things are changing though and UE is starting to show its muscles to Ireland.
Beside all that, these events are mainly targeted to shame firms that do unfair tax "optimization", which is (right now) not legally punished, but still morally dist
Phones. Software. Maps. Email. Cloud storage. Communications. Payment services. Publishing services.
Yeah, those don't really help us as much as you think they do.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I assume this was said in jest as I seem to recall that they did all those things.
In exchange for what government services?
A pool of educated people to select employees from. Even a retail store benefits from people who can read and write and have a certain understanding of the world so as to represent Apple in a quasi-professional manner. These people in turn have a system for having a place where they can shower and practice good hygiene. Transportation systems to get the employees to work in a timely manner. Apple benefits directly from all of this. Really the list is endless and it is almost comical that you would think Apple exists in a bubble somehow.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Funny, I remember people saying the same thing about treason during the prior Republican presidency. At least with Obama, we didnâ(TM)t get into any NEW wars. Atleast we killed the guy who did 9/11.
With another Republican President, we appear to be 2-3 tweets away from invading NK.
Literally payback. Apple has cherrypicked tax localities and laws to the point of absurdity.
Organization? You must be joking..
Apple is not breaking the law though. Tax avoidance (as opposed to tax evasion) is perfectly legal. And tax avoidance (structuring your finances so that the tax you're legitimately obligated to pay), is something that everyone, everywhere, does. Apple has merely done it better than you or I could each April.
The only example where it's actually been established that laws have been broken, with regard to taxation, has been the case recently where the EU ruled that Ireland set it's tax rate too low, giving Apple a larger incentive to locate there than what they were allowed under EU rules; for which the EU is trying to punish Apple, instead of Ireland. That is, of course, being appealed. And all that proves tho is that the US has no monopoly on xenophobia and jingoism.
Imagine all the people...
It's nothing this century. And these protestors weren't protesting injustice. Actually the opposite; they want to take money other people earned so they can spend it on themselves.
To Ireland, not to the EU.
Is Ireland in the EU? Why yes, yes it is.
The EU doesn't collect VAT. VAT is a national tax.
The EU provides no services to Apple stores. Nations do. So why does the EU need the taxes again?
Also do you seriously not think that part of the VAT collected flows back to the EU from every nation. If not, where does EU funding come from?
VAT is levied on sales. .. from physical stores.
The issue is not whether what Apple pays
Actually that is EXACTLY what I was responding to, an assertion that Apple pays "no taxes" in the EU which is a blatant lie. Some think they pay too little, but that is a wholly different discussion.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Why should the overall tax rate for my company be 10 times higher than it it for Apple?
I totally agree. You should be paying the same rate as Apple. And you could be if you used the same technique.
Apple may be paying a low rate but even at that low rate they pay a HUGE sum of money in taxes. Just because you are taxed WAY too much does not mean Apple is in the wrong, the EU benefits greatly from the taxes collected on sales of Apple products.
And thanks for mentioning VAT - that's tax that the consumer pays, not the business.
But it's money that would not be collected if Apple was not selling products there. If Apple stopped selling products across the EU tomorrow would there be a vast shortfall in VAT revenue or not?
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
So your argument is that Apple should pay a lower tax rate
Nope.
The original post I responded to said Apple paid "No Taxes" in the EU. Is 7.6 billion dollars greater than, or equal to zero?
Out of interest, which political wing do you identify with?
I belong to the "Correcting Blatant Lies With Facts" party. I know we are greatly in disfavor in these days Where the "Angry Factless Slander" party is greatly on the uptick, but you really should consider joining us instead as it's much better for your health. Especially your mental health. Our motto is "We Drink and We Know Things".
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Yeah, those don't really help us as much as you think they do.
People highly value them. I don't know who you think "us" is, but your definition of "help" seems to be contrary to Apple customers' definition.
LOL that's not really how it is playing out in the streets. DERP!
Seems like Apple gets indirect benefits from government services that they should pay for indirectly, like by paying an educated employee a salary, and having that employee pay taxes on that salary to finance that education. They should probably also pay a little tax directly for the direct government services they get.
But I'd say the protestors are more interested in plundering Apple for loot than getting the government services Apple uses reimbursed.
Apple's sweetheart tax deal with Ireland was found to be illegal.
Not by any Irish court.
I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
A government can make the laws in their own country, of course.
However, if a country enters a trade agreement, and the EU is for most part a trade agreement, it should play by the rules it if it wants to continue trading.
It's in the UN too. Does that mean that Apple pays VAT to the UN?
Apple doesn't "pay" VAT to anyone, they collect it on behalf of a local government.
It doesn't. You are the one claiming that it did.
Claiming what? That the EU provides services? I made no such claim.
From the general budget of the member states. It is not DISCONNETED FROM any specific tax.
Corrected that for you. Unless you seriously want to assert no VAT money goes to fund the EU, ever. Come on, I know you can do it! I dare you. ... and online shops. It's not in any way DISCONNECTED FROM physical buildings. Only to sales.
You seem to have a real problem with writing these things correctly.
I never said it didn't apply to online sales also. But that was merely one aspect of my point where I was tying things back to all the people that claimed Apple used physical resources of countries and that's why they need to pay more tax. The more sales are online, the fewer resources of the nation Apple is in fact using and the less it makes sense for them to pay. If we are all trying to actually be fair and not just loser Apple Haters out for a joyride.
So thanks for bringing that up, because Apple's high online sales rate more than validates why they should be paying less in taxes than other companies in the EU, which is still a number much greater than zero by may billions of dollars.
That may very well be, but that is not the issue here of course.
In fact the ONLY ISSUE I was writing about was Apple paying any taxes at all, not zero - all other material was just bonus to refute points and arguments based around that. You chose to re-direct it badly, but utterly fucked up your arguments which fall apart like a house made of 20 year old plastic wicker baskets you let sit out in the sun.
I'll let you have the last response now that you have been TAKEN TO THE WOODSHED OF ULTIMATE TRUTH and REALITY.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
That's just delegating retail sales, the fact that Apple would still benefit from public infrastructure remains, even if it's not used by them directly.
Somalia is pretty much that. So libertarian, it doesn't even impose which side of the road you should drive. Enjoy your Freedom Car Crash.
No, they are directly benefiting from having educated employees.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
It violated treaties that Ireland had voluntarily signed, and hence the Irish government actions were illegal.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
OWS was against some things, but never could come up with things to be specifically in favor of, and pissed away a lot of potential activism. BLM's objectives are long-term, and involve piling up minor wins until they become a trend. Unlike OWS, BLM can't use MLK's techniques.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
We're going to call the cops on you when you violate the law, like any civilized group. It's been a long time since civil order was maintained by private armaments, and good riddance to that. Your good ol' boy is going to spend a fair number of years in prison for that shot.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Mastering A & B is easy. Difficulty starts with C) Learn a foreign language I guess you didn't try.
It violated treaties that Ireland had voluntarily signed, and hence the Irish government actions were illegal.
I see that you have no idea how the legal concept of treaties work. Even if the Irish government would have signed away their rights to determine their tax legislation rights, then the EU still has no business dealing with Apple. Apple did not sign that treaty and Apple has a separate agreement with the Irish government. It is the Irish government that determines their taxation and not the EUSSR.
I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.