Slashdot Mirror
The Compelling Case For Working Less (bbc.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report from the BBC, written by Amanda Ruggeri: As we fill our days with more and more "doing," many of us are finding that non-stop activity isn't the apotheosis of productivity. It is its adversary. Researchers are learning that it doesn't just mean that the work we produce at the end of a 14-hour day is of worse quality than when we're fresh. This pattern of working also undermines our creativity and our cognition. Over time, it can make us feel physically sick -- and even, ironically, as if we have no purpose. Think of mental work as doing push-ups, says Josh Davis, author of Two Awesome Hours. Say you want to do 10,000. The most 'efficient' way would be to do them all at once without a break. We know instinctively, though, that that is impossible. Instead, if we did just a few at a time, between other activities and stretched out over weeks, hitting 10,000 would become far more feasible. "The brain is very much like a muscle in this respect," Davis writes. "Set up the wrong conditions through constant work and we can accomplish little. Set up the right conditions and there is probably little we can't do." Many of us, though, tend to think of our brains not as muscles, but as a computer: a machine capable of constant work. Not only is that untrue, but pushing ourselves to work for hours without a break can be harmful, some experts say. Ruggeri goes on to highlight the negative health effects associated with working long hours. "One meta-analysis found that long working hours increased the risk of coronary heart disease by 40% -- almost as much as smoking (50%)," she writes. "Another found that people who worked long hours had a significantly higher risk of stroke, while people who worked more than 11 hours a day were almost 2.5 times more likely to have a major depressive episode than those who worked seven to eight."
Until you get fired and replaced by an immigrant who works more for less.
From working cash in hand jobs as a teen to a couple of decades later, the less I work the more I earn.
I was always led to believe the inverse is true.
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
We're productive enough as a society that we could probably get by on a 20 hour work week.
So what happens then? Well, it's obviously fairly sustainable to work 40 hours per week... so someone's going to get two jobs with opposing schedules so they can have a nicer house.
When they do that, someone else won't have a job opportunity and they'll lower their income expectations. The economy will slowly adjust to the practical reality that people will work 40 hours a week for a standard wage, and then 20 hours won't be enough for food and shelter any longer and everyone will have to have two jobs instead of one.
Then you're right back to where we are now.
You won't get more than 6 hours of productive work from a knowledge worker. They can be there for longer, but they could do their shit faster and head home, and there would be no difference in output.
14-hour day should be X2 OT or more and that immigrant needs to be pay at least $90-$110K.
...should an immigrant have to pay to work?
As long as the goverrnment finds virtue in people working 40 hours a week and incititing it by knowingly inflating away their earnings and taxing the rest people will continue to be on the long hamster wheel.
...Europe is falling far behind the United States in productivity and wealth.
No, this is why Europe has a different definition of "wealth".
Wealth gained from unrealistic productivity goals become pointless if you ultimately end up pissing it away fixing the medical issues caused by pushing yourself too hard. Retirement goals also become pointless if you're dead before then.
Even TFS makes the detriment to health very clear, and I have zero fucking desire to hand over half a century of retirement nest egg to the Medical Industrial Complex. I guarantee that maintaining good physical and mental health will become your most valuable asset later in life.
Besides, humans better start accepting a 20-hour workweek as normal, especially as automation and AI march on to decimate human employment.
There is an old saying in the IT field "the dream of every IT admin, is to have everything running so smoothly, that you don't have to do anything. The curse is, that dream comes true."
Our place runs so well (locked down users help a great deal) that we spend weeks doing very little. It can be a curse as we are often bored senseless and wish for more work.
I know this is in the minority, but our place is unusual in that we are restricted from being proactive, so we cannot spend the spare time looking forward, only waiting for something to happen.
Yet we are the highest paid people in the building. Go figure...
It means they have to be paid more. But as automation and outsourcing devalues their labor they're going to be worth less. That's just supply and demand. So of they're going to work less the people who pay them are going to have to be forced to pay them more, probably with an underlying threat (e.g. of you don't pay your taxes you go to jail). Now, I'm a socialist so I'm fine with that, but how about the rest out there? Forget logic and reason, how does it make you feel?
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
17 years ago, I had a one year contract with unlimited overtime, all meals and accommodations provided. They wanted me on site all the time. I worked 18 hours a day with no time off for that whole time... and immediately had a breakdown as soon as that contract ended and I got out of the weird routine of it. I needed months to get back to anything like sanity.
The next job I got, and the job I still have, is a four day work week, 50% telecommuting gig. I have responsibilities and I'm on call 24x7 but as long as I keep everything working, I have a pretty sweet work/life balance. I can't bring myself to give that up.
I've been on both extremes and I consider myself extremely fortunate to be where I am right now.
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
I just counted and the first eleven posts on the main page come from you, BeauHD.
You're working too hard so you should take a break and allow the quality of posts get better.
You deserve to take a break.
The study assumes that employers want to treat their employees as human beings. In the United States, employees are inconvenient, failure-prone devices that insist on receiving a few dollars in pay for the work they do. This puts an unfair limit on the employer's ability to make money.
So if an employee has a heart attack or a stroke, or suffers from depression...that's their problem. If one of them occasionally loses their shit and goes on a killing spree...it's not going to be the CEO who gets shot.
So the hours an employee works need to be whatever the employer says. If an employer wants 60 hour weeks with another 10 hours of tacked-on, uncompensated "setup time", the employees should just shut up and thank god they have jobs.
And no health care. That could raise corporate taxes, and it's better for America if the employees die off when they can't work anymore.
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
You have the time and face it, you know you've been eyeing Pointdexter in the tight pants this whole time.
Sore: 5 FUCKING HILARIOUS!
Creativity is like a fart...
if you put too much pressure on it, the result is a pile of shit!
...Europe is falling far behind the United States in productivity and wealth.
No, this is why Europe has a different definition of "wealth".
Wealth gained from unrealistic productivity goals become pointless if you ultimately end up pissing it away fixing the medical issues caused by pushing yourself too hard. Retirement goals also become pointless if you're dead before then.
Even TFS makes the detriment to health very clear, and I have zero fucking desire to hand over half a century of retirement nest egg to the Medical Industrial Complex. I guarantee that maintaining good physical and mental health will become your most valuable asset later in life.
Besides, humans better start accepting a 20-hour workweek as normal, especially as automation and AI march on to decimate human employment.
Absolutely. Health is real wealth. I saw a figure the other day that USA spends 3 trillion on medical problems. I dunno if that's a made up figure, but even if only a quarter of that...
I mean, I gather in UK, when the NHS was founded, it cost, in today's money, 20 billion. Now it is costing 120 billion... and basically, there is no more money, nor any sign of that rise stopping anytime soon.
And here I don't particularly care about left or right politics -- the politics of how to fund that bill is hardly relevant when the main problem is that the bill is crippling, whether public or private. Neocons can bang on about the NHS being "inefficient" and meanwhile the socially-conscious can go on about "cuts" -- but if everyone in the country is sick, who is going to look after them? Half of NHS workers are obese.
Heart disease is linked to stress. Diabetes, obesity, and dementia are becoming more linked to diet (a diet full of processed cheap carbs and seed oils for the profit of multinationals).
And we work ourselves to a miserable decrepit age. Instead of dying healthy, we drag our our remaining years at incredible expense to society.
I mean, I could go on.
Doctors are starting to say that the NHS needs to become about health, wellbeing, and prevention, rather than trying to cure the results of bad lifestyle with expensive interventions and drugs.
Except that it isn't. It is why the United States is such an appalling place to live, though.
1997-10-01 67.1%
2007-10-01 65.8%
2017-10-01 62.7%
Fewer Americans working means Americans are working less on average.
Mission Accomplished!
If you are working/living under favourable conditions, surrounded by practical, sensible and properly understanding people, with high freedom/resource availability to do whatever you want at any point, that advice might be somehow helpful for those not realising that being too concerned about work (or on anything else) isn't precisely positive. On the other hand, if your conditions are harder and/or your expectations can only be accomplished via a relevant amount of over-effort and/or in that moment you aren't able/have the resources to do what you really enjoy and/or you perform better under pressure, that wouldn't be too accurate. Similarly to what happens with everything else, it is a matter of perspective and, in this specific situation, personal priorities, interests, type of work you do, etc. Some people might enjoy being at work much more than doing what others consider amusing.
Custom Solvers 2.0 = Alvaro Carballo Garcia = varocarbas.
In fact, it's 10,507 by Minoru Yoshida of Japan in October 1980. After which they stopped keeping track of that record.
So maybe you should start out with an analogy that isn't demonstrably false...
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
>Europe is falling far behind the United States in productivity and wealth.
That actually made me laugh. It's well known that Americans work unhealthy amount of hours, are afraid to take holidays and in spite of this are less productive. Even worse, the lower end earners working just as "hard" can't afford basic food and shelter and are forced by their low wage paid by their employers (wal-mart, etc.) to seek government assistance.
Cost per head healthcare in the uk is 1/4 that of US and acheives better outcomes and 100% coverage of the population. Inefficiency is what you get when you slap a layer of insurance admin and marketing on top.
...Europe is falling far behind the United States in productivity and wealth.
Sure, keep telling yourself that. That way, in your mind, you can justify the rapacious greed of American Capitalism.
People working 80 hours a week on a job they love and are passionate about probably isn't too much of a stretch. They start the day with "Today I get to..."
On the other hand, slogging through 80 hours of someone else's bullshit is killer. They start the day with "Today I have to..."
The point about dragging is the main reason health care cost explodes. People are "saved" from dying by drugs, procedures, and vegetative states. Of course in the end they still die, probably not even knowing they were alive for the last couple of years of their life. But the family could go visit the body once a month at the nursing home. Another big cost driver is people are fat and do not exercise. I saw the UK is starting to delay care for extremely obese until they lose some weight. Probably a good start. Medicine cannot fix 500lb people.
Give them a break.. they were working for expertsexchange
The editor just wanted to use the word "apotheosis" in a sentence. :)
I am working twelve hours per week, four hours every Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday. Thursday through Sunday I enjoy my weekend and do some courses towards my comp sci degree. I have started working 40 hours like almost everyone else, automated the shit out of my job (sys/network admin), downsized to 20 hours, then downsized again to 12 hours. You know what? This is the best thing I have ever done. You drive a nice sports car, live in a mansion, dress exclusively, party only in the finest clubs? Fine for you, but realize that you are paying a very high price for all that. You are paying with precious hours of your life, which you are never getting back again. Stop watching television like a mindless zombie every day, use an ad blocker everytime you access the web. The more you stay away from all the stupid tabloid media and the marketing crap that is constantly raining down on you like liquid shit from a firehose, the more you will be able to live a happy and fullfilling live.
I've been reading western topics like this for a good 15 years now and, quite frankly, I don't believe North Americans are actually working more but rather they're occupying more of their time with work because they're working less.
For a good span of my life I had worked in IT and had to spend a good chunk of my time evaluating web logs for management and I would easily say that the majority of office workers with PCs would waste a huge chunk of time browsing Facebook, forums, baby sites, wedding sites, stock sites, local news sites, sports sites, dating sites, etc., etc. Hell, plenty of people paid their electric, gas, credit card, etc., bills at work as though they didn't have the internet at home... and the porn. I can't count the number of men that had porn stashes on their computers.
Certainly the amount of time wasn't consistent across the board and for some of these folks it was only 15 - 30 minutes a day on someone else's dime devoted to personal browsing but for many it was up to 2 hours. I'd say the average was an hour. And what else could they be doing at work? Are they conducting personal affairs over the phone?
The point I'm making has less to do with how pervasive internet slacking is in work environments that use computers but to question how many people are suffering because they're doing too little work at work?
to see a contribution from millennials or younger, any contribution, to anything, that wasn't a fundamental misunderstanding of science, technology, or life, or designed as a justification for their lack of maturity or laziness. You are going to have to work. Deal with it. The reason traditional things are traditional is because they have evolved over time (sorry that time didn't include you, but inserting yourself into and co-opting everything in sight just make you annoying, not 'brilliant' or 'poignant') and because they WORK, you don't need to 'disrupt' something perfectly functional. I know you feel like you will die without attention and acknowledgement. You won't, and your parents are pretty much the only people that think highly of you and encourage your delusions. It would be great if you'd decide to pull your own weight and actually listen to people that know more than you, because we do know more than you. You do not impress, not through your 'insight' or your sham 'accomplishments'.We are going to have to clean up the mess of a society you are creating and it would be so much easier if, given that you don't want to help, you'd get out of the goddamn way.
Even TFS makes the detriment to health very clear, and I have zero fucking desire to hand over half a century of retirement nest egg to the Medical Industrial Complex. I guarantee that maintaining good physical and mental health will become your most valuable asset later in life.
So much depends on the individual. An 8 hour day to me is just like getting started. I've always been this way. Hell, I'm retired now and work more than 8 hours a day. Actual work - not puttering.
Wanna know what I find stressful? Not doing stuff.
This will probably drive people nuts, but I work in my dreams. I dream solutions to problems I'm working on. Nothing to start your day off on a high note like figuring out a solution
And I sleep 5 hours a day, and that's my limit, which for some reason enrages some people.
Now I have no doubt that there are bad physical effects for those who's jobs consist of all hard physical labor. That's a lot of physical wear and tear. But from a lifetime of working with so called normal people, what I believe is harming them is stress brought on by mental boohooing about how rough they have it with being put upon to work extra.
The only stress I ever felt when I was working extra hours was when there was a possibility that the work wouldn't be finished on time. I think that happened maybe once every 10 years. A lot of people want to work as little as possible, and find every day stressful. And that's a shame.
Besides, humans better start accepting a 20-hour workweek as normal, especially as automation and AI march on to decimate human employment.
I agree on the basic premise. I wonder though - would new studies come out declaring that a ten hour week is healthier as the stresses of the 20 hour work week is "shown" to kill people? Meantime, I'm going to do stuff like I always did stuff, because I gotta do stuff - I derive happiness from it.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I will work till I'm 75 said the healthy man of 55
Work less or try being unemployed to make up for all those long, hard hours that's been leading you to burnout.
Find a part time gig to easily get back on track. Rust? If you sit on your behind long enough. Agile? On the treadmill, sure. Social media? Get real; this is /. FFS. I'm as anti-social as they come. Today's captcha? Intone What your muscles are if you have a pair of dumbbells next to your laptop, Mr. Trebek. I'll take All things go Big Bang for $500, Alex
"thanks to the indoctrination from government education" many of us have crippling debt. Working hard isn't nearly enough to dig yourself out. I don't know who you think you know, but your generalizations are false.
As a surgeon in training I worked ~120 hours a week nonstop for 5 years!!!
Thatâ(TM)s what it takes to be good.
It didnâ(TM)t âoedestroy my lifeâ but it was tough. So what.
I now work much less. But still it is about 80+ hours a week and I take multiple vacations a year. Because I can afford it and âoerenewâ my batteries.
Multiple studies showed that surgeons do not make more mistakes after doing surgery while being awake and working for 36 hours.
I guess either surgeons are aliens or most other folks are lazy, built differently and / or lack the capacity to concentrate for long periods of time?
As to life expectancy, most physicians live longer than average, go figure?
Don't you have people in the real world who will listen to you talk about yourself?
"Old man yells at systemd"
Finally someone who makes sense. Most people who don't commit themselves to mastering their profession become masters of the couch and tv universe. You do not master much working a few or 6 hours a day. I guess the missing detail here is most people posting have horrible jobs, with only a pay check and barely the authority to take a piss on demand.
Every single person I've crossed in employment and business who bring up this cliche are filling their free time consuming media and or food. They are typically not very intelligent or ambitious. Thus no surprise they recon 6 hours of productivity is scientifically reasonable.
For all intents and purposes most people are simply just that..most people, not much going on up top, so makes sense for them to protest to ridiculously short amounts of commitment to employment.
Yes couch jedi master the iced tea and cookies are strong in this one.
I think he touched a nerve
Don't you have people in the real world who will listen to you talk about yourself?
No.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Hopefully you haven't reproduced, that could explain how you know nothing about how hard Gen. Y/Z'ers work. Here's a hint: Which generation was it that was commonly able to afford homes working jobs that don't require a degree again?
You should thank FSM every day that you weren't born a few decades later, or your hard work would leave you poor, and your elders would mock you for it to add insult to injury.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
A small quibble over the "don't exercise" point: after decades of being told we get fat due to not burning it off with activity, people are starting to change their minds. South African sports scientist Tim Noakes who wrote The Lore of Running says he could run 120K a week and he still put on weight and he still got diabetes -- it was the food, not the activity, which was to blame, he came to realise. He now says you cannot outrun a bad diet. But the sugar industry likes to promote blaming laziness to draw attention away from all the sugar that goes into its products. Anyway, small point. Main point is people need a healthy lifestyle so they can avoid the long, expensive, chronic conditions.
Finally someone who makes sense. Most people who don't commit themselves to mastering their profession become masters of the couch and tv universe. You do not master much working a few or 6 hours a day.
And just watch how what I wrote enrages some folks. Someone already was pissed enough to write asking me if I didn't have someone to talk to in real life.
Rather than my simple "no" answer, I simply go to Slashdot every morning when I'm out to breakfast. I allow that entertainment while I eat.
I guess the missing detail here is most people posting have horrible jobs, with only a pay check and barely the authority to take a piss on demand.
That is very likely true, and they have my sympathy.
Every single person I've crossed in employment and business who bring up this cliche are filling their free time consuming media and or food. They are typically not very intelligent or ambitious. Thus no surprise they recon 6 hours of productivity is scientifically reasonable.
For all intents and purposes most people are simply just that..most people, not much going on up top, so makes sense for them to protest to ridiculously short amounts of commitment to employment.
Yes couch jedi master the iced tea and cookies are strong in this one.
Yeah, that's pretty sad. What I think is a problem is that we have allowed a lowest common denominator approach to life. Somewhere, somehow, productivity has become bad, and the goal is to be as unproductive as you possibly can. Thinking is bad, and success is measured as how little you think. I can only imagine how Thomas Edison would be crucified today for his work ethic.
And this reality Television approach to life and living is showing.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Today's 30s are working 50+ hour work weeks with mandatory overtime and are still living paycheck to paycheck.
The difference is what hard work got you in the 1960's isn't what it got you today. You could own a home etc. Most of the time now people are told they can give up 90% of their free time, including travel time etc, and maybe you'll be allowed to have a car.
With inflation etc, people are earning a lot less. And companies are like whaaaat, you don't want to work more? Come on, if you work even more hours, in 3 years we'll give you a dollar raise. No? My god what is wrong with this generation...they don"t know what hard work is.
Uplink Hosting - Web/email at an affordable price with high performance - https://uplinkhosting.ca/link.php?id=3
So much depends on the individual.
In my experience that isn't true, apart from a few outliers that prove the general rule that more time working does not get more work done beyond a certain point. There are people who think they can work 80 hours a week and be perfectly productive the whole time, but it's a bit like how some people believe that drugs make them more creative. From an outside perspective, it really doesn't work that way. Workaholics are frequently busybodies, who make a lot of fuss but don't get a lot done. Study after study finds that it's not a matter of wanting to work less but that people can't work long hours without it negatively affecting their overall productivity.
Yes, we have way fewer billionaires.
Granted, we also have way fewer working poor...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The private sector can by definition not reach the same level of quality for the same price as a nationalized service can. Because they have to slap a profit on top of the cost.
To a private business, the product is the means to the end, the necessary evil to make a profit, while for the nationalized service, the product IS the end.
Then why is a private business more efficient? Well, it isn't. It just doesn't have the same goals and hence can easily be profitable.
Let's stay in the medical sector. The private businesses' goal is profit. So what do they do? Take everything that is profitable and simply cut the rest. And if liposuction is more profitable than saving the fingers of a worker so he can stay productive, someone's gotta learn to order five beer with only a finger left while Mrs. Flabby will find herself weigh a lot less.
Healthcare as a national service has a different goal. Here, the worker will get his 3 fingers back because while this means higher medical expenses, it also means lower unemployment expenses because he can stay employed. Mrs. Flabby will stay fat though.
And now you know why you have so few fit women in Britain.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Find a better barber.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
What exactly are you complaining about? The Americans think they live in the best of all worlds and couldn't imagine living in that European hellhole...
I wish more people on this planet thought like that!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Well, it doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth. And you needn't work your ass off.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Have a nice day.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Purely anecdotal, but... It is not just exercise, it is also the quality and nature of food. I live in the US. I schedule exercise 3-5 times a week for 30 minutes with 3 of those days being actual aerobic exercise (the other days being stretching and/or walking). This is in addition to the exercise from rural-nature household chores (which often proves to be at least somewhat labour intensive particularly with the close to surface clay hardpan). I eat small portions, usually with fast food only being once to twice a month. Food content is a mix of non-tuber vegetables, gourds such as squash or zucchini, some meat (usually poultry, but sometime fish), occasional rice, fresh fruit or celery snack, and rarely bread. We already drink water regularly and the only direct source of refined sugar is a morning cup of coffee. While I am not huge, I am not either lean and my BMI is on the high side (fortunately slightly offset by muscle mass). My spouse and I took a two week trip to Japan a few years ago; since we made good use of public transportation, except for Kyoto which involved a hike around Arashiyama, our activity level was normal. We also regularly overate on the trip with many visits to KFC and McDonalds (which, btw, taste better there than their US counterparts) and ate many of the Japanese sweets as well as sweets from the "French style" pastry shops. We both lost a great deal of weight, mostly from leaning out. We never dropped our activity level and returned to our smaller portion sizes upon arriving back (well, I will admit to having BBQ pulled pork once upon arriving back), but it only took about two months to return to our previous weight and level of leanness. While there is the possibility that we underestimated our amount of walking, I do not think it is the case. Of course, the much lower level of stress from being on vacation (other than our luggage being lost in Chicago for 2 days and occasionally getting ourselves lost from misreading similar kanji on signs as offline maps were not available due to some regulation) may have been a positive effect anyways.
As far as the health field in the US, I am not a big fan of public healthcare as I do not have confidence the the bureaucracy here would manage it correctly. On the other hand, I would say to separate insurance entirely from employment since the actual customer of insurance companies would change to the match the primary users. Removing the existence of insurance would be counter productive at this point and healthcare is of nature to not be as strongly influenced by free market in comparison to things such as retailers given such examples as someone needing insulin or having a heart attack being in a, shall we say, compulsory situation.
Concerning the original post, when not accustomed, I have difficulty managing more than 40-50 hours per week of physical labor at all. Once accustomed, I usually can maintain 60 hours per week without a significant drop of quality of work; however, it does take its physical toll after about a year. The mental aspect of lacking personal time with love ones, however, kicks in far before that. This is juxtapose to the more mental labour of software development in which it is neither difficult nor easy to do the occasional week of 60-80 hours, but attempting to go beyond 45-50 hours regularly has a substantial impact upon performance and quality of work. Considering individuals that I have known in the past having different limits and even reverse combinations, I suspect it is dependent on the temperament and body of the individual.
I might also note that if someone was to limit the lower paying wage workers to a maximum number of hours a week, then a lot of people would starve. Given the improved ability to automate tasks using process, computer management, and robotics, increasing pay per hour along with the need for additional workforce coverage might push companies past the threshold for seeing a bottom-line improvement by investing long term into automation rather than the "this-quarter" of maintaining the status quo. (I am not holding my breath for universal income).
An 8 hour day to me is just like getting started. I've always been this way.
You realize you are an anomaly, right? Public policy shouldn't be guided by the outliers.
And I sleep 5 hours a day, and that's my limit, which for some reason enrages some people.
Most people wish they could sleep less, but that is generally not possible. You got a lucky roll of the dice. Be grateful for it. Do not expect other people to catch up to you on this---because modern science indicates that it's just not possible.
Meantime, I'm going to do stuff like I always did stuff, because I gotta do stuff - I derive happiness from it.
This is interesting. You appear to enjoy your work in the same fashion as most people enjoy their hobbies or past-times. Perhaps this explains why you experience little stress or mental fatigue while working.
Still, most people do not have jobs like that. I don't know if there's ever been a formal study, but based on my personal experience I'd estimate that fewer than 1/10 people have that level of job satisfaction. I believe it would be best to change things so that most people feel the same way about their work as you do, but that's a whole different problem.
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
You sound like a case of "love what you do and you'll never work a day in your life."
Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.
There is very strong evidence that at least some "type 2*" diabetes is due to bad gut bacteria deliberately manipulating your metabolism to make more sugar available to itself.
Someone with undiagnosed/untreated diabetes is unable to metabolise sugar, and will crave sugar, putting on weight - correlation is NOT causation - but the tabloids don't know.
* There are two totally different mechanisms referred to as type 2 - (a) insufficient insulin production, and (b) your cells ignoring the insulin that is available - probably due to insulin receptors in the cells being blocked by something. (It is not impossible to have both problems.
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Some places have the balls to say our employers enjoy working at home in there free time on work stuff. Now how true is that realy? or is more like we have so much work that they are pressured to do that / are so back logged that is only way to get lesser things done.
and marketing drives to hard and we get buggy games rushed out just to be patched later with fixes and even at times content that was not finished in the 1st release. and the later can be weeks to months.
It's also important to point out that this is not a binary choice. If you have a bad diet and exercise you will probably be unhealthy. If you have a good diet and don't exercise you will also probably be unhealthy.
I can only imagine how Thomas Edison would be crucified today for his work ethic.
Patent other people's ideas as your own and make money off of them?
Edison didn't invent a damn thing on his own.
It's funny how people who are obsessive compulsive workers don't ever realize they have a problem. Not trying to be insulting, but you sir have obsessive compulsive disorder. Its just that in American culture, yours is the only type of obsessive compulsive behavior to not be labeled that way by most people. People even brag about having this condition, lol.
2 things.
1. Repeat your post verbatim to a psychologist and ask him/her if they think you might have a problem. I think you might be in for a surprise.
2. Ask yourself if this is the way you want your children to live. You might be telling yourself you're doing all this for them, but if they take your example and live life like you do - chances are they'll be miserable. (assuming they are not also OCD)
Find a better barber.
I'm bald, you insensitive clod!
What kind of cheap excuse is this to deprive a barber of his income? Imagine everyone thought like this.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The government of my country spends 2 years claiming they need to slash-and-burn services, then adds 1,000 medicines to the health subsidy list: Little wonder we've got a third your population but half the health-care bill. I'm just waiting for the next election cycle, when they'll complain those dole-bludgers costing a mere $15 billion, have got it too easy, while helping corporations import employees from the Philippines.
Have a nice day.
Most always do.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
I can only imagine how Thomas Edison would be crucified today for his work ethic.
Patent other people's ideas as your own and make money off of them?
Edison didn't invent a damn thing on his own.
Nope, not getting into a Tesla Versus Edison argument.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Another typical answer, rip down another man's achievements. My dear friend, you do not possess the mental capacity to hold a conversation with the person you refer to.what makes you think you have the capacity to understand and critique his achievements?
It's funny how people who are obsessive compulsive workers don't ever realize they have a problem. Not trying to be insulting, but you sir have obsessive compulsive disorder.
What I am is driven. I have a much higher drive than most people. Obsessive compulsive Disorder doesn't remotely fit. Obsessive behavior involves often repeating the same task over and over again, Some of us joke about it a bit and call them "toaster checkers". In fact, people with OCD usually have a specific task they repeat, like washing hands, did the lock the house when leaving - and obsessive thoughts. OCD gets well in the way of productivity.
And before you go to Obsessive personality order, my "magic" is being able to function in very chaotic environments.
If I have any issues with thought process, I can get way too analytical, about thinks others just accept, trying to analyze why say, I find Sophia Vergara so incredibly hot, while I tend to find tall slender women attractive. I'm going to stop that line of thought now.
Its just that in American culture, yours is the only type of obsessive compulsive behavior to not be labeled that way by most people. People even brag about having this condition, lol.
I could be a lot of things, but that just doesn't fit.
1. Repeat your post verbatim to a psychologist and ask him/her if they think you might have a problem. I think you might be in for a surprise.
Aren't people with mental disorders usually kinda unhappy about their lives? Or is that the problem - I need to see a shrink so I can lose my drive? What's in that for me?
2. Ask yourself if this is the way you want your children to live. You might be telling yourself you're doing all this for them, but if they take your example and live life like you do - chances are they'll be miserable. (assuming they are not also OCD)
People are all different. I do what I do because I am happy doing it. My son isn't like me, and that's fine by me. He's living his life, and getting reasonably far ahead in his way. I don't hurt anyone or myself, and am a fully functioning member of society. Anyone having a problem with that is beyond my ability to help.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Comparing a drug user to someone who works long hours demonstrates the value of your argument. Zero.
Here is a better analogy. If you don't train for a boxing match you will get smashed. If you do train you are less likely to get smashed.
Your genetics limit you somewhat, but your experience prepares you for a better outcome.
More people would be more productive for longer if they were better prepared for it. However, most people are just lazy as hell, and or haven't been around enough non lazy people.
Now I know that's pretty obvious what I'm saying, but your analogy just demanded I say something simple and obvious in the hope you may understand.
Good bye friend.
I'm glad you posted, I was becoming very worried about the types of people I share my webspace with! I agree with you on all points.
This reminds me of a time long ago..deep in the mines of Moria, Gandalf has just fallen into the abyss, a Balrog's whip lashed around his ankle. Goblins are streaming into the cavern, arrows are flying....RUN you fools.
We must leave in haste
Everybody forgets Inflation. NHS was founded when money was worth more than double today. It isn't easy to compare in depth; but just look up 20 billion in 2017 inflation adjusted money.
Then consider the added costs of expensive modern medicine which lets people live longer in more situations... Which leads into all those people being kept alive at added expense that used to simply die of natural causes... I bet you easily will find that covers the increased costs and even likely exceeds it. The result being that we probably pay LESS now than in the past... it is just that we do more with more people living... I'm 100% sure this isn't even a debate when you consider the POPULATION INCREASE. (remember, the parent was talking $ annually spent it was not population adjusted!)
Modern tech has expensive things that cost but it gave us great productivity boosts that allow for more coverage for lower prices. Those gains are eaten up by increased population and poor use of statistics and math. ALL are issues we hardly ever discuss because industries want us to fight over cutting costs and politics makes it impossible to talk about population growth limits as well as selfish waste on end-of-life people refusing to die.
Being FAT and eating bad are really not big factors. If you want to eat shit and die, you should be able to do that-- you will die anyway and either way the same motives to drag out death will happen (it's just that younger people can drag it out longer.) The REASON we blame people's habits is because it's the propaganda of personal responsibility which lets us blame others to make ourselves feel good instead of dealing with issues involving ourselves. (no different than blaming poor people for being lazy. if you do, you may not grasp what I'm saying... just forget it and go back to your dissonance. questioning is too difficult for you.)
I'm not trying to blame individuals, or use a right-wing "personal responsibility" notion.
I gather the 20 billion figure is indeed inflation adjusted. And the UK population is not 5 times bigger now, far from it.
The problem is that diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and obesity are growing like epidemics. It is not the natural state of affairs to have so many sick people.
There is also what they call the "food environment" (and lifestyle pressures like stress and pollution), and people do not have much choice in what they eat, if the food industry is only making certain kinds of products.
As for modern medical tech, yes there are the wonders of CT scanners, but there are also the big drug companies and "overly cleverly spun research findings" which get those drugs adopted and which cost the tax payer billions. Acute care is terrific, but chronic conditions are well, if it is chronic, it isn't cured is it?
Basically there is the model of "ancestral health" and what your great great great grandma used to eat, and it has little resemblance to what people eat today.
I think most people, given the choice between modern crap and health food from earlier generations, would choose the healthy food. Nobody really wants to eat crap. And the healthy stuff like butter, actually tastes better. We are sold lots of crap, and sugar is addictive. But take that out of the picture and people can eat good food which won't make them chronically sick and then you can probably wipe a large percentage of the health care bill away.
As well as the propaganda of personal responsibility, there is the propaganda from food companies that sugar laden low fat yoghurts are good for you, and that eating 20 teaspoons of added sugar in your food everyday is "normal". That's the propaganda we should be worrying about. Or the propaganda that people want to eat highly processed bread. Or the propaganda that saturated fat is bad for you.
I agree the people really are the victims here. But nobody wants to be sick and die sick.
Doctors are starting to say that the NHS needs to become about health, wellbeing, and prevention, rather than trying to cure the results of bad lifestyle with expensive interventions and drugs.
Exactly. You get the sales and marketing people of SERIOUS drug pushers-- sorry, I mean pharmaceutical giants, involved, and yes, you get crippling financial problems because, hey, superyachts cost money, right? Fucking drug dealers.
The NHS in the UK has been for the most part a wonderful thing. It still could be. Just cut out the greedy drug-dealing bastards and concentrate on the ORIGINAL GOALS as set out by Nye Bevan. Simple. Except the money-grabbing bastards are not going to let that happen. We're fucked.
What I am is driven. I have a much higher drive than most people. Obsessive compulsive Disorder doesn't remotely fit.
Yes, GP was making a foolish, reductive, and uninformed diagnosis.
And there are other reasons why someone might be happy working more than 40 hours (or whatever other arbitrary number someone wants to pick) per week. I wouldn't describe myself as "driven", and there are a number of ways I like to spend my time - interacting with my family, reading, walking and riding my bike, etc. But I also enjoy working. Even when I'm on vacation, if I don't do something productive each day, I get restless and discontented.
It doesn't have to be working on my job. I have projects of my own. I do a lot of work on my houses. I help friends with their projects.
But the job's a convenient option, because there are always multiple interesting projects there, and I have a community of coworkers to share them with, and I know the results are useful to someone. I don't feel pressured to put in time at work; I rarely feel pressured by work at all. It's an interesting way to spend my time.
And as for "work/life balance": It's pretty much precisely where I want it.
Maybe that makes me an anomaly too. But I do get tired of hearing J. Random Slashdot Idiot pontificate on how "everyone" has particular needs, and failing to perceive those needs is self-deception or a mental disorder.
What I am is driven. I have a much higher drive than most people. Obsessive compulsive Disorder doesn't remotely fit.
Yes, GP was making a foolish, reductive, and uninformed diagnosis.
I have found in over 30 years in the workforce, that a person with drive is often a pariah among some folks. There is a common attribute. They are lazy. They are upset that a more productive person has come along and forced them to work harder just to try to keep up.
But I do get tired of hearing J. Random Slashdot Idiot pontificate on how "everyone" has particular needs, and failing to perceive those needs is self-deception or a mental disorder.
Another thing I've found is that people with actual mental disorders aren't often very productive.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.