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State Board Concedes It Violated Free Speech Rights of Oregon Man Fined For Writing 'I Am An Engineer' (oregonlive.com)
According to Oregon Live, "A state panel violated a Beaverton man's free speech rights by claiming he had unlawfully used the title 'engineer' and by fining him when he repeatedly challenged Oregon's traffic-signal timing before local media and policymakers, Oregon's attorney general has ruled." From the report: Oregon's Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying unconstitutionally applied state law governing engineering practice to Mats Jarlstrom when he exercised his free speech about traffic lights and described himself as an engineer since he was doing so "in a noncommercial'' setting and not soliciting professional business, the state Department of Justice has conceded. "We have admitted to violating Mr. Jarlstrom's rights,'' said Christina L. Beatty-Walters, senior assistant attorney general, in federal court Monday. The state's regulation of Jarlstrom under engineering practice law "was not narrowly tailored to any compelling state interests,'' she wrote in court papers. The state has pledged the board will not pursue the Beaverton man any further when he's not acting in a commercial or professional manner, and on Monday urged a federal judge to dismiss the case. The state also sent a $500 check to Jarlstrom in August, reimbursing him for the state fine.
Jarlstrom and his lawyers argued that's not good enough. They contend Jarlstrom isn't alone in getting snared by the state board's aggressive and "overbroad'' interpretation of state law. They contend others have been investigated improperly and want the court to look broader at the state law and its administrative rules and declare them unconstitutional. In the alternative, the state law should be restricted to only regulating engineering communications that are made as part of paid employment or a contractual agreement.
Jarlstrom and his lawyers argued that's not good enough. They contend Jarlstrom isn't alone in getting snared by the state board's aggressive and "overbroad'' interpretation of state law. They contend others have been investigated improperly and want the court to look broader at the state law and its administrative rules and declare them unconstitutional. In the alternative, the state law should be restricted to only regulating engineering communications that are made as part of paid employment or a contractual agreement.
It's awesome.
You are way off topic but even your own quote says no change in the RATE of warming which according to that quote is 0.096 ... LOL you don't even know what propaganda you are pushing
You should look up acceleration in the dictionary.
A car coming towards you at 20 MPH need not accelerate to squash you.
Ok, so who's getting fired?
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Why did they go to such lengths over traffic lights? This seems to have been a rather sore spot for them.
The man was an engineer simply not registered in that state and was not attempting to drum up business but rather had given them a formula to replace the mathematical formula first developed in 1959 which only allowed for either stop or ticket when the yellow light was lit up treating it like a red light.
I would take a guess (which is worth nothing) that they knew about this issue probably for decades and continued with the flawed scenario doing a calculation of cost of fixing the problem vs cost of being sued for the problem (sort of like the fight club car recall formula). /*For those interested in the fight club car recall formula*/
Narrator: A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
Maybe this guy won his case, but it's pretty damn clear now that he is not an engineer.
Doh, okay, it's abundantly clear I didn't read the article. He is in fact an (electrical) engineer, just not one who is licensed to practice in the state of Oregon. Sorry.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
To all those on Slashdot who defended the Oregon Board of Examiners (and there were a few of you that did), this would be a very good time for you to sit down and have this here warm cup of STFU.
Take the cheese to sickbay, the doctor should see it as soon as possible - B'Elanna Torres, "Learning Curve"
Can anyone provide an argument for why or why not this man is or is not an engineer? This is crucial to understanding the story but it's not being presented clearly.
My karma was manually wiped by site staff https://slashdot.org/~slshdtisctrldbysjws 18 mod up, 10 mod down = bad karma
They did. The laws are designed to protect against someone who is unqualified from claiming to offer engineering as a service or offer their work as certified licensed work.
The person down at the local subway can call himself a "sandwich engineer" if they so choose, but as soon as they start claiming they can design structures, power grids, etc for someone, they're in trouble.
As an example, my good friend couldn't even put "engineering" in the title of his side business because he wasn't going to offer true engineering as a service. He is a licensed P.E. in three states..
Give the dude a break - he's probably Russian and doesn't speak a word of English.
You should look up acceleration in the dictionary.
A car coming towards you at 20 MPH need not accelerate to squash you.
Hmm E=1/2 m*v^2. Suppose m is around 1500kg. 20mph = 8.94 m/s. I believe all the units are correct, so multiplying that out yields about 60k joules of energy. Terminal velocity is around 53m/s, so assuming a 62kg human, you get 87k joules of energy if you just went splat from an aircraft.
The first would assume you were between a car and a brick wall and you received all the energy, which is an extreme case. At any rate, I suspect the 20mph one might be survivable, as long as your thrown out of the way, since your only getting a fraction of the available energy. (It could also easily be lethal or crippling.)
I'm too lazy to read all the details about the Oregon man, but if he got a fine for saying he is an engineer, can't we give Trump a fine every time he says believe me, or maybe every time he resorts to juvenile name calling?
Perhaps we could start with a 1 cent fine and double it each time. I'm betting he would be bankrupt within a month.
Neat about the free speech and all, but we're all wondering first and foremost, how did it turn out with the traffic lights?
Many electrical engineers can work as electrical engineers without needing a state Professional Engineering license. I think the main reason is that states are not allowed to regulate interstate commerce.
Considering the fine against him was essentially a SLAPP action, and Oregon has anti-SLAPP legislation, Mr. Jarlstrom should make the argument that an additional fine/restitution against the State Board should be applied in this case. Even if the specific legislation exempts the government, it could be argued by analogy.
Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
You should look up acceleration in the dictionary.
A car coming towards you at 20 MPH need not accelerate to squash you.
Hmm E=1/2 m*v^2. Suppose m is around 1500kg 20mph=8.94 m/s I believe all the units are correct, so multiplying that out yields about 60k joules of energy Terminal velocity is around 53m/s so assuming a 62kg human you get 87k joules of energy if you just went splat from an aircraft The first would assume you were between a car and a brick wall and you received all the energy which is an extreme case At any rate I suspect the 20mph one might be survivable as long as your thrown out of the way since your only getting a fraction of the available energy It could also easily be lethal or crippling.
Is there a moderation code for "mansplaining gone amok"?
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
We certainly have a good case for it here. Even if I could moderate that post, I have no idea what moderation to give it. I can't even decide if it should be moderated up for all to see or down. Perhaps a zero valued WTF mod?
I wonder if the handful of morons who keep crying about how I'm such a liar and can never admit when I'm wrong will own up to the fact that I was right about this when it first came up a few months back. You know, with the facts and honest opinion I posted.
In other words, will the idiots stop spreading lies and admit they were wrong? You know, the things they insist I can't do, despite the frequency with which I back up my posts with actual references, come back to post corrections when I learn new information, and thank those who point me in the right direction when I'm wrong.
Will they? Huh? Will they be able to admit they were wrong?
Yes, I know this is off topic and I'm prepared to face the downmods. I just had to call out UnknowingFool, Zero__Kelvin, zifn4b, and the rest of that crew. If I'm expected to admit when I'm wrong (and I do when it happens), I expect the same from them and, well, after the dicking they've been giving me for the past few months, I deserve to gloat once.
In your face, assholes.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
So no real harm done. NEXT!
I'm an EE. I looked into getting a license a few times, but nothing was relevant to the work that I do. The test seemed to cover things like electrical codes, power distribution networks and safety. Engineering is a wide field, the sample tests did not even touch on verilog, vhdl quantum mechanical or device geometry.
Do it before anyone can counter and then it's done already! Yeeeehaaaaw! Ride them little girls! Yeeeeehaaaaq!
He is in fact an (electrical) engineer, just not one who is licensed to practice in the state of Oregon.
It's even more specific: not licensed to practice as a licensed (sometimes called professional or chartered) engineer. He can almost certainly work as an electrical engineer in Oregon.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
"Prepositions and conjunctions are silent you moron" she spat back, rocking slowing up and down on the balls of her Christian Louboutin stiletto heels. "And it's pronounced OSBEELS. Like what I'm about to stick up yer OS if you give me any more B.". She paused to study me for any hint her threat had taken hold. I wasn't giving nothing away. She continued slowly "Oregon State Board of Examiners for Engineering and Land Surveying. We say who's got what and", smiling seductively, "how to measure it."
It was starting to come back to me now. Jarlstromburg, something Swedish like that. Wheat farmer. Refugee from that deep-freeze known as Minnesota. He had moved to Beaverton and taken up running red lights, playing with stopwatches and tweeting traffic patterns. To OSBEELS. Yea, that's it. Claimed he was an engineer. Everyone knew the real story. He had the hots for that agency dame. What was her moniker? Jenaire? Jenson? Jender? I went through a mental list. "Jenn" I whispered to myself.
"Whadda want? I'm still here". She was still there, tapping her toe impatiently and looking like she needed an answer to a question that hadn't been asked. "Jenn Gilbert" I said slowly, recalling the name from the badge she had tucked back into her Parfum bra. Underwire model, judging by the package. "Senior Inspector Jenn Gilbert" she corrected me, eyes narrowing to sans-serif. "And kicker of other people's asses" she added with a smile that can only come from someone that loves their work a little too much. She produced a slender Turkish cigarette out of nowhere and, voice softening considerably, looked at me and asked "Light me up, big boy?". I took it as sign we were about to talk business, and maybe other things, like what's a classy dame like you doing with a Saint Laurent alligator handbag, where was her driver, and did my breath still smell like plankton? I fished a trigger-operated MAP gas torch from my pocket and fired up her smoke. "My, you don't mess around do you" she sighed. "I like a man like that" and blew a perfect smoke ring toward my silk Thai stick tree. "My plants don't smoke" I cautioned her "but my underware does". I had to acknowledge the effect she was having on me. That seemed to relax her even more. She peeled off her tight Von Furstenberg blazer like a snake shedding it's skin, but with considerably less vomiting and flopping around. Her movement hypnotized me. By the time I came to she was seated on the leather exam table in the corner of my office. "You practicing without a license?" she asked, moving the leg stirrups out of the way. "Maybe we can do each other a favor" she breathed in a voice that would harden melted butter.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
certainly can, provided any work he does that requires a licensed "P.E." is signed-off by one.
Why? He didn't lie and he didn't claim to have any expertise he didn't have, so it would be rather inappropriate to refer to him as such.
Around twenty years or so is the period where you even begin to have the chance to detect long-term patterns. Why should your 23 years impress me? Not to mention that "Acceleration In Global Warming" and "global warming" are obviously two different things. Well, it's obvious at least to people who haven't flunked freshman-level calculus.
Ezekiel 23:20
Except that he very clearly stated what his expertise was and does, in fact, hold the degrees he claims to hold. He phrased the traffic issue in terms of his expertise as "an expert in motional feedback (displacement, velocity and acceleration feedback) of powered speakers which includes the full understanding of motion of an object such as a loudspeaker cone (or a vehicle stopping or traveling through an intersection as in ORS811.260(4))"; he, then, provided an analysis of the issue framed by that expertise.
And his analysis was correct, so you can hardly say he doesn't have the expertise he claims.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
but it's pretty damn clear now that he is not an engineer.
Of course. James Watt wasn't an engineer either. In fact there had been no engineers before Oregon was founded because only after Oregon was founded could Oregon certify people as engineers. /s
Ezekiel 23:20
Whodathunkit
No global warming to speak of for 23 years
Hmmmm
- snruter rotsac
Yeah mate, the devil put the fossils in the rocks. The world is flat. We know.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Thanks for all the witchhunting, priest.
Nous Sommes Tous Ingenieur(s).
Although on second thought. Maybe not,
The field of engineering is way to broad for a single license.
If your job is going to be doing dangerous things, or is somehow considered risky to the public, a license is a good to make sure you have the basic skills to do such a job safely.
However if all your job is on a virtual environment, a license is just a waste of everybody’s time and money.
An engineer is the job title that you do that covers a broad range of jobs, from creating software to driving trains.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Amazingly, you can only become a PE after another PE signs off on your work experience. So it seems a bit catch-22.
Well, even the fall out of an airplane "might be survivable". Thinking about it, even being hit by 20 bullets "might be survivable". You just need to be really, really lucky.
Mats Jarlstrom may have won the case, but from now on will be known as "that lying bastard who claims expertise he doesn't have"
Chrisq may have successfully made the slashdot comment, but from now on will be known as "that idiot who can't read a fucking article and understand it's contents"
Did your RTFA? Did you see his photograph? Caption: "I'm an engineer, not a doctor, damnit!" http://image.oregonlive.com/ho...
From what exactly? I'm not aware of his alma mater withdrawing his engineering degree or stating that it is somehow invalid. Do you have anything to backup that statement?
Sometimes I'm glad I don't have mod points.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
The AMA doesn't try to own the word 'Doctor'.
Instead they claim 'Medical Doctor'.
It is crazy for the PE board to think they can own the word 'Engineer'.
They got their hand slapped and backed off the fine on this one case saying it was ok because he wasn't getting paid.
They clearly have not gotten the message yet.
There are plenty of other folks with the right to call themselves Engineers. (Those with degrees, and driving trains, and just for fun.)
The PE board needs to get over themselves and pick a more specific term to claim as their own.
'Professional Engineer' seems more reasonable.
'Certifiable Engineer' might be more close to the truth.
He's not an "engineer" by their definition, but I bet the asshats that pursued this wouldn't hesitate to label themselves as "public servants"...
Many years ago I started a small software "engineering" shop with about a half dozen "engineers" (we used to call them that a lot more back then). Naturally, I thought it was a good idea to have "engineering" in the name of the company.
This was fine for quite a while as we never advertised and we certainly would never have even dreamed of passing ourselves off as some kind of structural or electrical engineering company. Then one day I added another phone line to the office and the local telephone company (without my knowledge) put a "free" yellow pages "ad" in their listing for the company...
The Association of Professional Engineers called me... They were good about it, but quite firm that I was absolutely not to do business under that name anymore unless I wanted to be sued out of existence. I changed the name at my inconvenience and expense. For good measure, I also changed my phone numbers.
I honestly had no idea that there was a group of people (with a lot of lawyers) who had a claim over a word in the English language. I still think it's wrong.
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
Learn to read, dipshit.
BOO-muthuh-FUCKEN-YAW, bichez!
Yooz a sucka, bustuh. Best B fittin ta getcha sheet own ansum fohdeez uh ode EEZ! B up dey kikin onna cohnuh fuh duh dey! Fo lyfe, nigguh. Ya fih me? FO LYFE! No wuh omsain?
The field of engineering is way to broad for a single license.
If your job is going to be doing dangerous things, or is somehow considered risky to the public, a license is a good to make sure you have the basic skills to do such a job safely.
However if all your job is on a virtual environment, a license is just a waste of everybody’s time and money.
An engineer is the job title that you do that covers a broad range of jobs, from creating software to driving trains.
That's why the purpose of the PE is to certify "minimum" competency in a given discipline and why there are so many tests, multiple tests for sub-disciplines as well like EEs who have specialties. The Controls Systems Engineer test I took and passed was loaded with "basic" questions but there were all things that a well-rounded I&C engineer with at least 4 years of experience should be aware of and that is what the license certifies.
Also maintaining the license requires some substantial continuing education, which is another reason why it looks good on a resume as it shows that the engineer in question actually puts effort into keeping their knowledge current.
In the land of the Free(TM), everyone is an engineer!
The folks who change the TP and light bulbs in my office are the "building engineers".
the folks who shovel the driveway in the winter are landscape engineers.
the folks who take out the trash are sanitation engineers.
the folks who drive me in a cab are transportation engineers.
even the code monkeys who bang out java crapplets are software engineers.
Where will it stop?
Why have any sort of monopoly over a title.
Just Call Me Your Royal Highness Dr.Admiral Anne Nonymous Esquire Ph.D, M.D, DMD, PDQ, QED.
"They contend others have been investigated improperly and want the court to look broader at the state law and its administrative rules and declare them unconstitutional. In the alternative, the state law should be restricted to only regulating engineering communications that are made as part of paid employment or a contractual agreement." Good luck! After all, this is Oregonistan you're talking about.
Why doesn't California go after all the web app developers who call themselves engineers but don't have an engineering degree? The title has been bastardized by the likes of Facebook and Google.
You Oregonese just don't give up, do you?
"Trump!!", the new Godwin.
And Lawyers administer the bar exam and doctors administer their exams....
license is a good to make sure you have the basic skills ...
That is not really saying a lot.
... to do such a job safely.
Basic skills and Safely aren't really in the same ballpark IMHO.
I happen to know people who should be "engineers" but don't have the piece of paper to say they are, as well as people that have the piece of paper, that really shouldn't. Piece of paper is just a barrier to entry and doesn't indicate any real competency.
Once you realize that, you look beyond the paper for actual experience and proof of skill, which is what you should be doing regardless of the piece of paper requirement by the state.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Right, regardless of the fact that the PE might or might not understand anything the actual engineer did.
I happen to know a Draftsman who works for an engineering company, he does ALL the engineering, and the guy signing the drawings can barely (if at all) read them, and most of the time doesn't even bother. If people actually knew that the guy with the piece of paper didn't actually do the actual work, they'd be freaking out. On the other hand, they should be grateful that they aren't. ;)
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
It doesn't matter if he's an engineer or not
He said he was an engineer.
"Free speech" means that the government can't punish you for what you say.
That dosn't mean that a person can practice engineering without a license and to do so violates laws and ordinances crafted outside the protections of the 1st amendment.
This guy did not "practice." There are no damages to show and, for that reason, the state has no standing.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Yea I don't think that was ever even a valid argument. The guy was most definitely knowledgeable enough and had the expertise to make the analysis. The only argument was if he was violating P.E. laws by claiming the title without having the certification in the state. Clearly the answer is no he was not now, so by all accounts he comes out ahead here.
Even I, as a person that thought he probably did violate those laws originally, can't say anything negative about the guy concerning this whole debacle. The only even remote argument someone could make now is that it opens the door for people to use the term who really are not qualified. Problem with that though, either one, people don't give a shit what qualifications the person has anyway, or two, a little bit of research/questioning determines that person to be a fraud.
Really the end result is sensible limits have been clearly established for the governing body. I am in favor of the P.E. system, and even if I mistakenly thought they had the authority to levy the fine, I can't say that I agreed they should have in that instance.
If calling yourself an Engineer is a free speech right, then I'm every cool, qualified title on earth.
"Free speech" means that the government can't punish you for what you say.
Apart from, you know, the exceptions. Like copyright, slander, perjury, inciting panic, inciting violence, false advertising, and yes, protected terms.
I'm glad the pendulum is swinging the other way towards freer labor markets and less occupational licensing, since study after study shows all it does is hurt those worst off in society who have a valuable skill they can use to earn money, but don't have the money to pay for the license to legally use that skill. Also these licenses mean that we as consumers pay more for the services, be it barbers, plumbers, nurses, doctors, etc.
I don't care how well you did on some state-issued exam which may or may not be relevant to your job. All I care about is 'can you do the job i'm paying you for' and I determine that the same way most consumers do, Relying on the 'reputation market' of repeat business, branding, word-of-mouth, and review sites like yelp
Those "exceptions," you mention are not, "free speech." Like making money pretending to be an engineer, those are simply, "illegal."
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
Exactly this. For instance, in order to be a chef or run a restaurant kitchen in many places you are required to have a ServSafe certification. That serves a state interest in ensuring that public eateries know how to serve food that is safe to eat.
So you may end up with safe-to-eat food, but that doesn't mean it's any good.
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
The NCEES does now have a Computer Engineering option that looks much more reasonable for those of us that are more on that side of things. Sadly Oregon requires references from three licensed Engineers to apply. I have yet to run into anyone that is actually licensed (heck 90% of my coworkers haven't even taken the FE), likely because the CE option is very new.
In practice that paper is really only needed in a few limited instances, which can all be covered by one person on a team.
A lot of this bickering about needing a paper before one can be an engineer sounds very similar to those claiming you can't be a plumber without a union card.
There are no damages to show and, for that reason, the state has no standing.
Armchair lawyer alert!
You are wrong for the following reasons:
1. Damages apply to civil law, not administrative. Administrative law has authority and effect in the absence of any damages.
2. First, only the complainant must have standing.
3. Also, standing is decided by the court when it is an issue. This was a ruling by the state attorney general.
4. The AG decided that OBEELS lacked the authority to censure Mr Jarlstrom. Authority and standing are two entirely different concepts, and you would never mistake one for the other if you had any idea what you're talking about.
Do us all a favor, and link to relevant expert opinion next time. Your opinion was worthless.
Every time some idiot government employee/politician creates a law or regulation that the courts find to be in violation of our Constitution, the court should order them to pay (from their personal money, not state money) for 10 hours of legal training in what the Constitution lets them do and not do.
And those hours should double if they do it again, and double again if they do it a third time (40 hours), until they stop doing it.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Amazingly, you can only become a PE after another PE signs off on your work experience. So it seems a bit catch-22.
And you can only become a human being if another human being gives birth to you. What's your point again?
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
In this case, the same people who determine if you get to call yourself an "Engineer" were intentionally violating safe and sensible engineering practices, resulting in vast amounts of property damage, disfiguring and life changing injuries to innocent people, and ultimately causing the death rate to rise. Why? So that some elected official's brother in law could make a shit ton of money off of some red light cameras.
So if we take that and fit it into your analogy, this would be like the state requiring every ServSafe certificate holder to be infected with typhoid. Oh, and any doctor who says this is unsafe for people will get sued by the state because hes not a chef.
When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
Exactly. And since he's not "practicing", he's still allowed to provide an informed opinion on a topic. Licensing is only required for commercially operate. As he provided his services to himself, they broke his constitutional rights in pursuit of illegal activities. I hope he sues them for millions in violation of his constitutional rights.
Oregon board admits guilt, asks for case closed - it doesn't work that way for the rest of us, and their unconstitutional action is worse than criminal.
Refund of fine is not enough. What Mats is asking court to do is good, and in addition a personal consequence to those board members is necessary. WTF are they thinking even trying to squelch this guy on a formality instead of considering the content of his argument. They are not qualified for government work.
This touches on the real point. Engineers are typically required to be licensed if they are providing work that can affect public safety. I have been a licensed structural engineer for over 30 years for that reason.
My concern is the same as the state boards. He was holding himself out to be an engineer, commenting on matters of public safety, for which he likely has no training (traffic engineering, a branch of civil engineering). He attempted to provide the perception that he has specialized knowledge, which he does not. I took a few courses on traffic engineering back in the day and his assessment is, at best, incomplete and is therefore likely wrong.
In most cases, other than a few clerical types, state boards are staffed with professional engineering and other volunteers from the community, that live in the state. They typically have no adjenda other than protecting the public and may make $20 per monthly meeting from the deal. Yes, $20 per month. So saying that they are government run amok is asanine.
If he is indeed doing that, he is violating typical state law (responsible charge of the work) and your friend should turn him in to the state board.
I call BS.
FALSE
"Free speech" means that the government can't punish you for what you say.
Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences of speech.
Freedom of speech means that the government may not prevent you from speaking (sharing your opinions), especially with regards to the government (aka political speech).
"You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
Like making money pretending to be an engineer, those are simply, "illegal."
In the US, 'engineer' is a protected term. Aren't we still talking about the realm of the illegal here?
Like making money pretending to be an engineer, those are simply, "illegal."
In the US, 'engineer' is a protected term. Aren't we still talking about the realm of the illegal here?
No, no it's not. Professional Engineer maybe, but it varies from state to state.
I was given the title "Field Design Engineer" back in the early 80s by a Fortune500 company, when I only had an Associate's degree, and was really a computer technician, and doing very little actual design. "Field" just meant that I worked at customer sites.
Just another day in Paradise
By gad, you're right!
Looks like Texas has the strongest protection, where the title 'engineer' (and not only 'professional engineer') is legally protected.
They do. In fact, the people he was criticizing, civil engineers who installed red light cameras in Beaverton then cut the timing in half for the yellow light, are not just labeled as public servants, but paid as such.
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Because its ok to lie as long as you don't obviously profit? Wtf?
I'd say that Free Speech means that the government won't prosecute you because you say something. Prior restraint is an infringement on free speech, but imprisoning somebody after saying something is also.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Except that nobody gives a shit whether his analysis is correct. Everyone knows many lights are rigged. They do it in Texas too. Nothing ever changes. And why should it? The rich make money they use to fix a couple of things around the city as pocket the rest. The world goes 'round. Another day another dollar. That is how it works. That is the system we live in.
And my now expert diagnosis is that y'all are idiots