Slashdot Mirror


Almost 100 Million People a Year 'Forced To Choose Between Food and Healthcare' (theguardian.com)

Almost 100 million people are pushed into extreme poverty each year because of debts accrued through healthcare expenses. From a report: A report, published by the World Health Organization and the World Bank this week, found the poorest and most vulnerable people are routinely forced to choose between healthcare and other necessities for their household, including food and education, subsisting on $1.90 a day. Researchers found that more than 122 million people around the world are forced to live on $3.10 a day, the benchmark for "moderate poverty," due to healthcare expenditure. Since 2000, this number has increased by 1.5% a year. A total of 800 million people spend more than 10% of their household budgets on "out-of-pocket" health expenses, defined as costs not covered by insurance. Almost 180 million people spend a quarter or more, a population increasing at a rate of almost 5% per year, with women among those worst affected.

19 of 415 comments (clear)

  1. Don't be mistaken by damn_registrars · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reason health care is so costly in the US can be found at the top of the insurance companies. Many of the top execs of these companies - including the ones that are listed as "non-profit" or "not-for-profit" take in guaranteed annual bonuses that exceed the lifetime earnings of most Americans. The "Affordable Care Act" just gave these greedy capitalists the keys to the kingdom as well, in guaranteeing them customers for the rest of time.

    People dropping out of the insurance market and having no coverage won't solve this problem. The solution is to finally have our country behave like a modern industrialized nation and have a single-payer system. It's too bad nobody was willing to propose such a sensible thing.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:Don't be mistaken by Train0987 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Single-payer would bankrupt the country. There will never be enough of anything to satisfy demand completely.

      The solution is to relax regulations, not increase them. Remove the artificial limits placed on the number of doctors by the AMA, relax the burdens on licensing, etc. Cap malpractice payouts through tort reform.

    2. Re:Don't be mistaken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is so dangerously stupid.

    3. Re: Don't be mistaken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Single payer would not bankrupt America. How about cutting your fucked up military budget? Lol. Omg the US used to really be a beacon and now it's just a fucked up mess.

    4. Re:Don't be mistaken by mridoni · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Single-payer would bankrupt the country. There will never be enough of anything to satisfy demand completely.

      Well, I just can't understand how most of Europe and Canada do it without actually going bankrupt.

    5. Re:Don't be mistaken by OrangeTide · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yet everyone gets their insulin in Canada. I can't say the same for USA.

      There is limiting services through budget constraints that are applied broadly. And there is limited services by not providing any services to lower class people. Which model do you think we have in the US?

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    6. Re:Don't be mistaken by dcw3 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Bullshit. Single payer removes a middleman that is of no value added, and in fact raises the total cost of healthcare.
      And, for whatever it's worth, I'm saying this as a fiscal conservative.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    7. Re:Don't be mistaken by damn_registrars · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Single-payer would bankrupt the country.

      Just because the GOP says that, doesn't make it true. The rest of the industrialized world uses some form of single-payer and their nations aren't going broke. We use a market-based system with essentially no floor and we are going broke. We are the only industrialized nation where it is even possible to go bankrupt due to medical debt.

      The solution is to relax regulations, not increase them

      Single payer does relax regulations. The biggest barriers to health care right now come from the insurance industry, not the government.

      Remove the artificial limits placed on the number of doctors by the AMA

      You really need to look in to what you're saying. Several problems exist with that statement.

      First of all, we have alternative paths to practicing medicine. Ever hear of a Nurse Practitioner? They are able to practice medicine on their own now in several states. Ever hear of a Physician's Assistant? They are taking patients independently for routine cases in many states as well. Ever hear of a Doctor of Osteopathic medicine? They can also see patients on their own. We also have pharmacists who can do more patient care than before in many situations - they are doing a lot more now than just handing out prescriptions and selling Sudafed.

      Do you really want someone practicing medicine who has less qualifications than that?

      Cap malpractice payouts through tort reform.

      Malpractice payouts are a trivial expense compared to what goes to the top of the insurance industry. In fact most doctors pay vastly more in malpractice insurance than they will ever pay in malpractice settlements. The reason why so few doctors go in to Obstetrics (for example) isn't because they are actually concerned about the possibility of committing malpractice, but because the insurance industry requires them to carry absurd terms for their malpractice insurance. Sure, the lawyers are getting a big cut but it is dwarfed again by what the insurance company execs get - and the insurance execs get it regardless of their own performance while the lawyers have to prove a case in court to get the big paycheck.

      In other words the bulk of your argument reads like an ad for the insurance industry.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    8. Re:Don't be mistaken by Computershack · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Single-payer would bankrupt the country. There will never be enough of anything to satisfy demand completely.

      The solution is to relax regulations, not increase them. Remove the artificial limits placed on the number of doctors by the AMA, relax the burdens on licensing, etc. Cap malpractice payouts through tort reform.

      Its not bankrupted any other first world country which has universal healthcare free at the point of need. The tax burden per capita of the UK NHS is the same as the tax burden per capita in the USA for Medicare and Medicaid yet the NHS covers 100% of the population. It may not be perfect but people don't have to make the choice between getting treatment and eating.

      --
      I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
    9. Re:Don't be mistaken by ranton · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not how much they draw compared to each person, it's how much they draw in total. It is, in fact, obscene.

      Considering this thread was started with the statement: "The reason health care is so costly in the US can be found at the top of the insurance companies.", the only thing that matters is how much they draw compared to each person. For the purposes of this discussion that is. Whether or not their pay is obscene has no bearing on whether or not it is the reason health care is so costly in the US, which is the contention which was being refuted by the post you replied to.

      Based on the figures I found here the top 10 highest paid insurance CEO's made $159 million in 2014. That is about $1.30 per household. I don't think health care costs are so high just because of an extra ten cents per month we all pay extra to pay these CEO's.

      If I use Amtrust Financial Services (home of the highest paid CEO above) as a model, the entire C-level suite including the CEO made 261% of the CEO's pay. So I'll estimate that the C-level suite at the 10 companies above were paid $415 million in 2014, which is about a quarter per household per month.

      If you factor in every C-level executive in every insurance company in the US, I doubt you would come to more than a couple dollars per household per month. That is not why insurance is so expensive. I would still agree that private insurance companies are the number one reason why health care is so expensive in the US but it has far more to do with the stockholders who demand return on investment (gasp, the horror) than it does with obscene CEO pay.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
    10. Re:Don't be mistaken by c · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Single-payer would bankrupt the country.

      Just because the GOP says that, doesn't make it true.

      If the GOP were in charge of single-payer, they'd make it true.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    11. Re:Don't be mistaken by Kohath · · Score: 1, Insightful

      So no structural incentive to control costs then. Or keep customers happy. But still a middleman who has to be paid a salary out of the total, instead of spending that money on actual care.

  2. 10% spent on out-of-pocket" health expenses? by OffTheLip · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I'm surprised it's not a greater percentage than that. It is for me.

  3. News for Nerds? by SpaceBoyToy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    First of all, I don't want to minimize the seriousness of this topic. It deserves discussion and action. I'm just not sure it belongs here, on this site.

    I have come to /. for many years to stay up to speed on the latest tech news and other interesting news that interests me. I also follow many other sites for political content. Lately, every site has seemed to wade into politics more than usual. I understand we live in a hyper partisan environment. However, we must have some safe havens from it. This site serves as that, to some extent, for me. I would hate to see it devolve into yet another political dystopia.

    This site was built for a particular niche. I don't know about the rest of you, but I would like to see it stay in the niche.

  4. Re:What fraction of those are in the USA? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The poorest Americans are richer than the average of the rest of the world. They have access to actual healthcare where in other places, they don't even have access, as there are no doctors. We live in a world of riches, and think we're poor, because the myopia we suffer. The solution being offered, "single payer" isn't really a solution, and will end up putting us on the road to Venezuela and Greece.

    The real fix is to get rid of insurance all together, and rid ourselves of the middlemen extracting 50% of all costs for themselves. It will actually lower costs (backoffice) that doctors have to run chasing down insurance repayments and keeping track of all the required paperwork it involves.

    There is no reason why 8 hour (that should have been 2) visit to the Emergancy Room cost $10,000(no costly tests), except insurance. You see, those that can pay, end up paying for those that can't (or won't), with the Insurance Middlemen getting their cut.

    And THAT is why healthcare costs so much.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  5. Re:What fraction of those are in the USA? by sycodon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    On a gold-gray morning in Mitchell County, Iowa, Christina Dreier sends her son, Keagan, to school without breakfast. He is three years old, barrel-chested, and stubborn, and usually refuses to eat the free meal he qualifies for at preschool. Faced with a dwindling pantry, Dreier has decided to try some tough love: If she sends Keagan to school hungry, maybe he’ll eat the free breakfast, which will leave more food at home for lunch.

    Dreier knows her gambit might backfire, and it does. Keagan ignores the school breakfast on offer and is so hungry by lunchtime that Dreier picks through the dregs of her freezer in hopes of filling him and his little sister up. She shakes the last seven chicken nuggets onto a battered baking sheet, adds the remnants of a bag of Tater Tots and a couple of hot dogs from the fridge, and slides it all into the oven.

    So her little brat kid won't eat the free meals. But wait, she was feeding him breakfast at home too?

    And she's buying frozen chicken nuggets and Tater tots? A dozen eggs cost $1.50. Potatoes even less per pound. Iceberg Lettuce is sometimes also $1,.50 cents a head.

    On this particular afternoon Dreier is worried about the family van, which is on the brink of repossession. She and Jim need to open a new bank account so they can make automatic payments instead of scrambling to pay in cash. But that will happen only if Jim finishes work early.

    And they own a Van. OK. Seems like a Corolla would have been a better choice. And apparently she is incapable of opening a bank account by herself? BTW, most banks have Sat hours.

    Either this article is poorly made up bullshit or these people are the victims of their own idiocy.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  6. Re:Easy way to cap malpractice payouts. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Don't be a shitty doctor, and you won't get sued. It is literally that easy.

    Do you think 100% of lawsuits against doctors are reasonable? That is an extraordinary claim. It presumes no one who seeks medical care, and gets a bad outcome due to the limits of medicine and/or bad luck is not willing to cry in front of a jury to get several million dollars.

    I live and work with humans. I can report to you that at least 10% of people do something that makes them a jerk at least once a week. People who think they have been wronged in some way (such as going to the doctor and not getting a pill that cures cancer for $1) are even more likely to do this. Please explain why people become angels the minute they step into a doctor's office.

  7. Re:In the USA you just show up at ER and don't pay by Train0987 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And the rest of us absorb those costs. That's another reason why prices are out of control.

  8. Re:Easy way to cap malpractice payouts. by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Do you think 100% of lawsuits against doctors are reasonable? That is an extraordinary claim. It presumes no one who seeks medical care, and gets a bad outcome due to the limits of medicine and/or bad luck is not willing to cry in front of a jury to get several million dollars.

    Yep...one cost of increased US health care is Dr's running multiple tests to CYA against a lawsuit...when usually 1-2 would suffice. But, medicine is NOT an exact science, and occasionally a test misses something or false negative. If the Dr doesn't cover his ass with every test possible, he's gonna get sued.

    Aside from the ONE thing Obama care did to positively, that being disallowing coverage refusal for pre-existing conditions....it has been a disaster and a great reason prices have increased and continue to do so.

    For example...I'm self employed. Way back 10 years or so ago, I could get a simple, high deductible insurance policy (only $1300 or so), and basically have that for what used to be termed, "Major Medical" coverage. Basically there for $$$ emergencies like getting hit by a bus or heart attack. I paid about $120/mo for that, and that was with being a smoker and high cholesterol pre-existing.

    I couple that with a HSA (Health Savings Account) that I fully fund (this year about $3200 max) annually pre-tax that I used to pay my routine meds needs, and office visit fees, etc.

    Now? Well, about 4 years ago, I started off with a "silver" policy...about $450/mo.....increasing yearly till for 2018 they were wanting about $1100-$1200 a month for same thing.

    Part of the problem? Well, with fscking Obama care regulations, there isn't ability to get a "major medical" type policy. No....EVERYTHING and the kitchen sink has to be included.

    I'm a single male, in between women....I have NO plans to get pregnant, yet I have policy coverage for prenatal, etc. Why the fuck should I pay that?

    That's one reason.

    Another...WTF don't they allow insurance to be sold across state lines, like car insurance is? That would surely increase competition....and lower prices.

    Why can't I pick and choose what coverages I need, a cafeteria type thing, much like we want to do TV ala carte, why can't we all be big boys and big girls and pick and choose what coverage we need?

    Let's get the bean counters out of the way, and go back to having insurance be for EMERGENCY care, and all....prices will lower, Dr's then could be independent again and charge reasonable...and let's get some tort reform in there to prevent frivolous lawsuits.

    Back before the bean counters, HMO's and all...medical care wan't THAT expensive. I had a relative that was a Dr. back in the 70's-80's....he would charge according to what the patients' means were.

    We have medicaid for the truly poor, but for everyone else that is capable of working, lets go back to the older says and things like I've put forth where it won't cost an arm and a leg and people are covered for emergency care, but for routine stuff, they manage themselves.

    If nothing else, it would unclog the fucking ER at hospitals...and keep people from using that as their primary physician....

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........