Ask Slashdot: When Is the Right Time To Discuss Retirement With Your Employer?

An anonymous reader writes: As I am sliding down the far side of 60, retirement is something coming up in two or three years.

The usual notice time is two weeks, but I'm one of two people (maybe three if they pull one back in off other projects he's done the past four years) who do what I do, and is fairly important to the company's product. Yeah, we'd be in serious hurt if one of us were hit by a truck.

I'd like to give a lot of notice. It took them six months to find me for this position half a decade ago. But I don't want to be let go before I'm ready to go, either.

Most slashdotters seem to be a lot younger than me, so maybe I'm asking in the wrong place, but has anyone else dealt with this issue?

Comments

No good dead goes unpunished

[Dorianny]

Watch out for your own best interest. Your employer will be doing the same

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[rhazz]

I agree with that.

But I don't want to be let go before I'm ready to go, either.

I would give them notice on the day you are ready to retire, and then carry on with them until they are ready or until your good will wears out. If your boss/HR has any competency at all, they already know what's coming.

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[gnick]

My current employer has treated me well so far. I've seen them treat my coworkers well, including when it came time to retire. As a result, I try to act in our mutual interest and trust them to do the same. I'm much happier with this arrangement than I would be if I was convinced that everyone was only self-interested.

This isn't always practical. I'm lucky to work for a small company staffed by human beings instead of corporate drones.

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[olsmeister]

My current employer will not pay out my unused vacation if I do not give at least two weeks notice.

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[lgw]

Watch out for your own best interest. Your employer will be doing the same

If you're still working at a shitty place late in life, then sure - why even give notice? But if you're working somewhere reasonable, there's no reason to be a dick.

Retirement is coming up for me in the next few years. I plan to let my boss know informally about a year ahead of time that retirement is looming, and he should plan accordingly. I don't want him to be surprised when I give 2 weeks notice, but that's all the formal notice I'll give the company.

That being said, you should be able to retire for at least a couple years before you actually retire. This is important! When you get to the point that you believe you can live acceptably on your savings, don't stop working immediately. It really sucks to be wrong about how much you need - I've seen it, and it's not pretty. Soldier on for a couple more years to account for errors in prediction about what life holds.

If you do that, and your company uses knowledge of your plans and screws you by e.g. firing you 3 months before you had planned to retire, then you don't really care. You should be able to retire for some time before you'd even think of warning your boss that you plan to actually retire, for so many reasons.

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[Archangel Michael]

Here is my $.02 worth.

When you are good and ready, give your two weeks notice, BUT offer to stick around for ... say ... six months, if they need help finding and replacing you.

That way, you're fine either way, and come out like roses.

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[Fast Ben]

My current employer will not pay out my unused vacation if I do not give at least two weeks notice.

Depending on which state you're in, that may be illegal. It certainly is in California.

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[networkBoy]

This!
We have a guy at my office much like you.
He gets hit by a truck, we stay in business, but we slip all sorts of deadlines, and likely contractual obligations, and our bug escape count will go way up.

He's a greybeard and greatly valued, but he wants to retire. He gave us a year notice, and he was in a position that if we said "bye" he'd have been fine (bored, but fine). As it is we are grateful for the year's notice and have him advising Jr devs when they get stuck. We're 6 mo in and he's down to 4 days a week (his choice, but good for us as it's driving home the point we need to learn everything we can from him first).

Honestly, if you're that valuable I predict that you will be fine having the "1 year warning" retirement convo, particularly if you approach it with something along the lines of:
"I've loved working here, but as I'm sure you can guess I am getting to the age where retirement is looming. I don't want to leave this team in a lurch, so I was thinking about working out a (1yr|6mo|nn week) transition plan where I can mentor a replacement. What do you think about that?"

This puts you in a position of relative power in that they can say okay, or you can leave and they have no choice but to hold the bag. Naturally if you have some trigger that needs to happen, like stock options vesting, wait till *after* the trigger, just in case.

In a reverse version of this I know a guy who knew his value, but when we were bought by Intel he simply didn't want to work for such a big company. He offered a similar resignation, a transition plan, knowledge transfer/training. He was rebuked and told "If you're quitting then we'll have your final paycheck to you plus some severance".
6 months later we were hiring him on a *LUDICHRIST* contract of $20,000 + expenses and $500 per diem for 4 days of work to crash course a group of devs to get past some roadblock.

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[Rob Y.]

I have the opposite problem.

Our 'team' has been whittled down to the point that it consists of 3 guys - all over 60. There are no junior people to take our places - and the company seems to have no plans to hire any. This situation arose out of a botched outsourcing program. The outsourcing firm was pathetic and was ultimately dropped after everyone who knew the product had been fired. They brought me back as a part-time consultant to replace the Indian guys, and that's fine with me. But at this point 2 out of 3 of us have gone part time, and it's finally dawned on my boss that he's going to have a completely unsupported - and largely unsupportable product on his hands in a few years.

I'm not sure how common this scenario is - but I suspect it's more so than you might think...

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[grasshoppa]

I'd play this a tad differently.

I'm still on board with the "Day Of" method, and I'd give them a month extra after notification. After that, my pending retirement becomes a negotiation tactic. You want me around for another 2 months? Cool, here are my terms, and they're expensive.

This works on a couple different levels. First, you are GIVING them a month extra, and how nice of you to do so. Second, you are being compensated for the extra time ( generously ). Third, you are giving them a strong incentive to find your replacement.

I've seen places say, "Oh, we're looking for your replacement"...but then not. So this poor, kind, soul gets stuck because he said he'd stick around until they find a replacement. This way you can charge them commiserate with how much you don't want to be there, and they really have incentive to find your replacement.

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[naughtynaughty]

If you work for an unenlightened employer who doesn't have a written policy to pay out accrued vacation when you leave then you should treat them likewise, give no notice and plan your departure to be on the day you would have returned to work after using all your vacation

Likewise with any employer that says they want two weeks notice but reserve the right to give you no notice before laying you off. At the end of your last work day hand HR your resignation letter that says "Due to your under-performance as an employer I am laying you off effective immediately".

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[networkzombie]

All situations are different. You should know best your relationship with your employer. I was laid off my last job. They gave me eight months notice. They hired me back as a consultant for 8 hours per week. That was 5 years ago and I still work there. They were the first of my many customers.

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[grasshoppa]

This way you can charge them commiserate with how much you don't want to be there, and they really have incentive to find your replacement.

It's commensurate, dumbass.

Yes, I'm calling myself a dumbass, doesn't make it any less true.

Re:No good dead goes unpunished

[mysidia]

It will reflect more badly on you and your profession than on your employer, so I don't recommend it. It's always best to leave on the best terms possible ---- leave the door open, just in case you need something in the future: maybe not a job, but one sort of favor or another from your former company, boss, co-workers, etc.

My suggestion would be start making your post-retirement plans now, and when you have them finalized, figure out a hard date you want to stop working. Make sure you used up your normal vacation time for the year, and afterwards let your employer know a few months before that date you want to retire and start cutting back your hours after 2-3 weeks, and how many hours you're still willing to put in a week to get the project done on time and work with others to offload your duties..

If you've been in the service of the company a long time; they'll probably work with you on prepping to retirement...

I've had two employees retire on me.

[FuzzyDaddy2]

I had a very good engineer retire. He did it six months in advance, which from a management point of view seemed like a reasonable amount of time. (His exact words were "Just to let you know, I talked it over with my wife and we've met all of our retirement savings goals"). Longer than that seems unnecessary, and you may change your mind.

Don't overthink this

[magzteel]

If you are retiring you aren't trying to coordinate a start date with your next employer.

When you are *ready to go*, tell them you have decided to retire, and offer whatever notice period you want to.

Heck you could even retire and offer to provide consulting services on an as-needed basis.

Just talk with them

[ranton]

My mom and one close coworker have went through this in the past couple years, and in both cases they started a dialogue about this years before they were ready for retirement. Don't fool yourself into thinking that your employer hasn't already thought about the fact that a key employee is in his 60's. The best chance you have for this to work out in your favor is to open a dialogue with your employer.

Sure your employer could screw you over, but he could also hire someone in the next few months to cover his ass even though you intended on working a few more years. Unless you have an absolutely horrible relationship with your boss, this could likely be solved with a little communication.

Retiring is different than Switching Jobs

[Ksevio]

Since you're not going to move to another job in the industry, your employer will likely want you to stick around and train a replacement. IF they're a reasonable company, they won't be pushing you out the door if you tell them you're going to retire, they'll be planning the remainder of the time you have with them carefully.

What sort of places do you people work for?

[sunking2]

Retirement isn't a big secret. You think your bosses don't see that you are getting old? They know that anyone over 58 can go whenever they want depending on how they've planned. They'd much rather be able to plan a replacement assuming you fit a spot that needs filling.

Why would they fire you because you said that you were planning on leaving in the next 1-2 years? That makes no sense.

Alternatively, if they know you want to retire and they know a layoff is coming then that is a win win. They don't have to upset anyone, they get rid of someone who likely has a higher salary, and on top of it you get severance pay, insurance and unemployment.

Let them know early

[XXongo]

There is no reason not to tell your employer about your intent to retire in 6 months. They aren't going to lay you off when you've already told them that you're leaving in six months anyway: firing somebody is a lot of work and has a lot of bad effects, and they'd gain only six months of your salary, which would get eaten up with severance pay and lawsuits. If they did want to get rid of you, having you retire is their best case scenario.

So, go ahead, let them know, and start training your replacement.

Re:Let them know early

[squiggleslash]

6 months of pay may be a significant thing for a smaller company

While this is true, there's presumably a reason they were paying him in the first place. Businesses are rarely evil, just sociopathic. That is, they'll make logical decisions in their best interests. Sometimes those decisions will end up screwing people over. But they won't make illogical decisions that are against their own interests just to screw people over. And, actually, even sociopaths know it's not actually in their best interests to screw people over so they tend to avoid it, and companies are the same way. Look at how normal it is to have severance packages when they're trying to reduce the number of employees, even if they operate in at-will states.

This entire comment section is utterly ridiculous, full of people absolutely convinced that the first thing a boss will do upon hearing someone is going to retire is fire them.

Why? Why would you fire someone who is leaving? Why wouldn't you take advantage of the fact you know this person is going to leave and when they're going to leave and use that to plan a transition?

This isn't hard people. I've seen it every where I work. I have literally never seen anyone fired because they gave more than two weeks notice. I've seen one person actually resign because they wanted to move across the country, and the company helped them with everything, including ensuring they had consultancy work to ease the transition while they looked for work in their new location.

Yes, there are some small businesses that are terribly run and terrible to their employees. But we're developers. We're not waitstaff. We're not retail assistants. We're not in any of those industries notorious for treating people like crap.

To the submitter: just wait until's a good time, when you'd be OK leaving now but another six months wouldn't hurt, and let the company know. It'll help them and your coworkers, it'll feel good when you leave, and, hey, you'll probably get a retirement gift.

Just don't do anything dangerous two days before retirement. That never goes well...

The day of

[PopeRatzo]

I can tell you from personal experience that the best time to discuss retirement with your employer is the day you are walking out the door for the last time. It's so satisfying. I still got my party and when the time comes, I'll still get my pension.

If your employer is going to end your employment, he almost certainly won't tell you about it until the last day. You already gave them their money's worth and you don't owe them anything.

Better yet, call them at 9am on the first day of your retirement to let them know you won't be in ever again.

Re:The day of

[Headw1nd]

Wow you people sound bitter. What kind of terrible jobs do you have that you hate everyone there so much?

Re:In the modern climate, there isn't

[MerlynEmrys67]

Sounds like the way a company would work... however, lets do a risk benefit analysis:
Employee says they are going to retire in 6 months
Let them work for 6 months - they leave on their own
RISKS ?? Their productivity falls to 0 - costing 6 months salary (100K with benefits maybe?)
Benefit - Find a replacement worker, including letting current employee interview and give insight... Current employee trains replacement (Value - ???)
Benefit - Everyone else sees this person is treated well, including an office retirement party that is good for team morale (cost 10K including a small parting gift)
Fire them ASAP Risks - Possible age bias lawsuit as they are well over 40, and there would be no dings on their record otherwise
Risks - Everyone sees what happens and no one will help in the future
Risks - Who will do knowledge transfer, you are down an employee until you find a replacement Benefit - Save 100K in salary.

I don't see any reason to go through firing an employee early - the lawyers for the lawsuit alone will cost you 100K even if you win and don't have to pay a dime... Assume you would have to pay AT LEAST the 100K to the employee plus cover his legal costs (another 40-50K)

Plan to win

[weeboo0104]

I agree with the earlier poster who said let them know when you are ready to go.
Keep in mind that they may walk you out the door the minute after you tell them you want to retire.
With that being said...
Most companies have some kind of development plan structure in place for employees to give them room to grow. Initiate a development discussion with your employer and state that one of your development goals for yourself and the company for the year is to plan for retirement. (Where do you see yourself in a year? On a beach sipping margaritas.) This gives them a chance to either find a new hire to work with you on a transition, or an internal employee who might want to broaden their skillset and work with a mentor (you) for the next year or however long the transition is.
Mutually agree on a date to leave and invite them to hire you as a contractor or part-time employee if they need additional work done.

it's sort-of not your problem

[roc97007]

I'm getting to be that age also, but haven't been in the position to give notice, yet. That said, in every place I've worked so far, if you give six months notice, they'll start looking for a replacement immediately, and find a reason to dump you as soon as they're confident of business continuance. Don't do that to yourself.

Consider also, that if you retire you might get some benefits that you wouldn't get if you were, for instance, fired. A big disadvantage to announcing that you're going to leave sometime in the next several months is that it gives the company that long to figure out how to get rid of you at minimum cost to the company.

Even if your boss is a good guy and wouldn't do that to you, there are probably people higher up that would see the minimal cost option as business as usual.

Keep in mind also that some companies don't want an employee continuing to work there who has announced his intention to leave, to reduce the risk of pilfering and sabotage. Often, you give two weeks notice and they ask you to leave right away, and pay you for the two weeks.

And finally, your boss knows how old you are. If he doesn't have a plan in place already, it's on him, not you.

So in conclusion: Don't tell anyone. Just do your job up until it's time to give two weeks notice. It's safer for you.

Plan your own transition. Tell boss when ready

[raymorris]

> This will allow him to plan a cautious transition. He will want the time to do it gradually rather than all at once. Trust me, your boss will love the idea of giving the new guy time to master each piece of the job before taking on the next one. Orderly transitions are worth the money.

All true and good. I'll add that where I worked the person leaving did a lot of the transition planning and that worked well because they were effectively TELLING their boss and everyone "here's what needs to be done before I go, and how long it will take". Looking at it in reverse "here's a ton of stuff that won't get done, and will cause problems, if you don't keep me until July."

So we'd have a rough schedule:

Over the next few weeks I'll document the processes for X, Y, and Z, and all admin passwords needed and other access information, etc.

Next month I'll show Bob how to do A, B, and C.

Then I'll let Bob do it himself (asking me questions as needed) and I'll check his work, clarifying any issues. We can then discuss whether it appears that Bob will be able to take over these tasks, or if someone else is needed to help.

In February we'll finish up the project I've been leading for the last year, etc. Bob will need a backup in case something happens to him, so in March Bob and I will walk through the processes with Sue, so she is also familiar with them. February and March I'll bring Bob into the monthly meeting with Very Important Client so they can meet him, and he can see how we conduct that monthly meeting.

The flip side of that is you're telling the boss "if I leave today, nobody will know how to do X, Y and Z, or A, B, and C."

At my last job, retirements were planned a couple YEARS in advance. That made for smooth transitions. When I left for a new job, I started planning an orderly transition as soon as I had a good interview, more than three weeks before my last day.

Re:Gold Mine

[torkus]

You're right, but wrong.

At-will employment does allow either party to terminate the employment with zero notice for no reason. However that absolutely DOES NOT absolve either party of obeying laws around employment. You can terminate me for no reason, but you can't pretend a reason doesn't exist. i.e. if a company terminates someone a week after they announce they're pregnant there are sufficient grounds for a lawsuit - at which point the company would need to justify the termination was not on illegal grounds.

Age is protected status.

Retaliation is also illegal. You can't fire someone because they gave notice to terminate their employment. Many companies DO decide to go with leave in lieu of notice for employees with privileged access. I've had that more than once and it amounts to a couple-week vacation where I'm technically on-call but have all my access cut so can't do anything.

If you give notice of retirement in 6 months and they are stupid enough to fire you for "no reason" shortly after, you'd have a pretty solid lawsuit in the making. Not to mention they'd easily get crucified in the media over it and any cost to just pay you out even for 6 months would be minor in comparison.

Overthinking?

[eth1]

Seems like most people are overthinking this a bit... Once you're ready to retire, the exact date you stop working isn't very relevant.

My plan would be:
- Wait till the day I'm totally ready to walk out the door
- Walk into my bosses office and say, "Hey boss, I'm ready to retire. How long do you want me to stick around?"

Then it doesn't really matter what their reaction is.