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Ask Slashdot: When Is the Right Time To Discuss Retirement With Your Employer?
An anonymous reader writes: As I am sliding down the far side of 60, retirement is something coming up in two or three years.
The usual notice time is two weeks, but I'm one of two people (maybe three if they pull one back in off other projects he's done the past four years) who do what I do, and is fairly important to the company's product. Yeah, we'd be in serious hurt if one of us were hit by a truck.
I'd like to give a lot of notice. It took them six months to find me for this position half a decade ago. But I don't want to be let go before I'm ready to go, either.
Most slashdotters seem to be a lot younger than me, so maybe I'm asking in the wrong place, but has anyone else dealt with this issue?
The usual notice time is two weeks, but I'm one of two people (maybe three if they pull one back in off other projects he's done the past four years) who do what I do, and is fairly important to the company's product. Yeah, we'd be in serious hurt if one of us were hit by a truck.
I'd like to give a lot of notice. It took them six months to find me for this position half a decade ago. But I don't want to be let go before I'm ready to go, either.
Most slashdotters seem to be a lot younger than me, so maybe I'm asking in the wrong place, but has anyone else dealt with this issue?
Watch out for your own best interest. Your employer will be doing the same
I had a very good engineer retire. He did it six months in advance, which from a management point of view seemed like a reasonable amount of time. (His exact words were "Just to let you know, I talked it over with my wife and we've met all of our retirement savings goals"). Longer than that seems unnecessary, and you may change your mind.
When you are *ready to go*, tell them you have decided to retire, and offer whatever notice period you want to.
Heck you could even retire and offer to provide consulting services on an as-needed basis.
My mom and one close coworker have went through this in the past couple years, and in both cases they started a dialogue about this years before they were ready for retirement. Don't fool yourself into thinking that your employer hasn't already thought about the fact that a key employee is in his 60's. The best chance you have for this to work out in your favor is to open a dialogue with your employer.
Sure your employer could screw you over, but he could also hire someone in the next few months to cover his ass even though you intended on working a few more years. Unless you have an absolutely horrible relationship with your boss, this could likely be solved with a little communication.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
The day after your retirement party do you plan to buy a boat and head out to sea?
If you are not doing something like that I would not worry about giving more than a couple months notice.
Which really is enough time to put together an orderly transition/success; if you take some personal steps on your own to document things and fix up anyone old problems before you make your plans public.
If they really need you and you are not going anywhere right away, they can always bring you back on to do a little 1099 work for a few weeks.
Given them YEARS notice on the other hand just allows time for shenanigans like pushing you out to get the transition over on their terms rather than yours maybe before you are ready. Worse I have seen crappy companies let people go before making eligibility for 30 year bonuses / increased pensions etc. That sorta thing may or may not apply to you but why invite trouble if it does. At 60 you are not quite ready to take SS but might really have trouble finding another gig, taking SS early can have major financial draw backs; is another thing worth considering.
Really a couple months notice is plenty fair to all and makes sure you go when the time is right for you.
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Since you're not going to move to another job in the industry, your employer will likely want you to stick around and train a replacement. IF they're a reasonable company, they won't be pushing you out the door if you tell them you're going to retire, they'll be planning the remainder of the time you have with them carefully.
... before you are laid off for being old.
Give them as much notice as you like but be prepared for them to cut you loose early.
Whenever I give notice, I'm prepared to be walked that instant.
Retirement isn't a big secret. You think your bosses don't see that you are getting old? They know that anyone over 58 can go whenever they want depending on how they've planned. They'd much rather be able to plan a replacement assuming you fit a spot that needs filling.
Why would they fire you because you said that you were planning on leaving in the next 1-2 years? That makes no sense.
Alternatively, if they know you want to retire and they know a layoff is coming then that is a win win. They don't have to upset anyone, they get rid of someone who likely has a higher salary, and on top of it you get severance pay, insurance and unemployment.
So, go ahead, let them know, and start training your replacement.
There's more to life than work.
I can tell you from personal experience that the best time to discuss retirement with your employer is the day you are walking out the door for the last time. It's so satisfying. I still got my party and when the time comes, I'll still get my pension.
If your employer is going to end your employment, he almost certainly won't tell you about it until the last day. You already gave them their money's worth and you don't owe them anything.
Better yet, call them at 9am on the first day of your retirement to let them know you won't be in ever again.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Employee says they are going to retire in 6 months
Let them work for 6 months - they leave on their own
RISKS ?? Their productivity falls to 0 - costing 6 months salary (100K with benefits maybe?)
Benefit - Find a replacement worker, including letting current employee interview and give insight... Current employee trains replacement (Value - ???)
Benefit - Everyone else sees this person is treated well, including an office retirement party that is good for team morale (cost 10K including a small parting gift)
Fire them ASAP Risks - Possible age bias lawsuit as they are well over 40, and there would be no dings on their record otherwise
Risks - Everyone sees what happens and no one will help in the future
Risks - Who will do knowledge transfer, you are down an employee until you find a replacement Benefit - Save 100K in salary.
I don't see any reason to go through firing an employee early - the lawyers for the lawsuit alone will cost you 100K even if you win and don't have to pay a dime... Assume you would have to pay AT LEAST the 100K to the employee plus cover his legal costs (another 40-50K)
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
I like your enthusiasm, and I love the idea that people who don't want to retire shouldn't have to.
I do plan to retire, not anytime soon, because I already have answers to what I plan to do with the next 50 years. A full-time job gets in the way of dating strippers, I mean, landscape painting and community volunteer service.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
I agree with the earlier poster who said let them know when you are ready to go.
Keep in mind that they may walk you out the door the minute after you tell them you want to retire.
With that being said...
Most companies have some kind of development plan structure in place for employees to give them room to grow. Initiate a development discussion with your employer and state that one of your development goals for yourself and the company for the year is to plan for retirement. (Where do you see yourself in a year? On a beach sipping margaritas.) This gives them a chance to either find a new hire to work with you on a transition, or an internal employee who might want to broaden their skillset and work with a mentor (you) for the next year or however long the transition is.
Mutually agree on a date to leave and invite them to hire you as a contractor or part-time employee if they need additional work done.
It is easier to build strong children than to repair broken men. -Frederick Douglass
When you are ready to retire, give them two weeks notice. If they really need you, they'll find the amount of $$ that makes it worthwhile for you to stay on until they find a replacement. They get what they need, and you get properly paid for your rare skill (finally).
second - I wouldn't prematurely discuss retirement with them. Yes, it will take time for them to find a replacement...but I wouldn't discuss it with them if you're not willing to be let go immediately. (Just in case)
third - when you ARE ready...discuss. Offer to train replacement. Discuss a date when you're ready to leave. When you're ready to leave - offer a consulting contract (1099) to come back if necessary on a limited (expensive) engagement.
There's been a lot of good comments about giving them a relatively short i.e. three-month notification. However I would take this as an opportunity to set up a part-time work or consulting arrangement with your employer for another year or two. They get to keep corporate knowledge around and you get increased flexibility.
Unless it's a toxic environment, talk it over and help lead a transition during your lame duck period. Many companies have special budget/HR provisions to hire successors to retirees before they leave and they're separate from the normal resignation procedure. Your boss may have an easier time replacing you as a retiree than if you simply resigned and will probably appreciate the things you do to ease his or her pain. Take charge of bringing that person up to speed.
There may be opportunities to come back part time when you find yourself getting bored. Keep in touch and don't burn bridges! People often think of retirees from their company differently than people that just left for somewhere else. Co-Worker Emeritus.
But always be prepared to be shown the door.
I have learned the hard way to never give notice. In your case, where your retirement funds may be adversly impacted, this is doubly true.
Tell them the day after your 65th birthday that you are not coming back. You owe them nothing. They pay you for the labor you provide, and they would likely terminate you without notice should the need arise. With each payroll you are square with the house. No consideration beyond that should be given nor expected.
I am the penguin that codes in the night.
I've seen this a few times in my career, never anyone that reported to me but to my colleagues. It's challenging, because it can be tricky legally. I've seen where we all knew someone was going to retire, but she wouldn't announce it. Management can't really ask about it. So a year goes by.. nothing. We wanted to be able to plan around getting her replacement, but couldn't because we didn't know when she would announce it. Ideally you want the employee to bring it up so you can work out some kind of transition plan.
I've also seen it where someone announced her retirement date, then moved it out, then moved it out again. She was terrible, and we couldn't wait for her to leave. But we couldn't get rid of her. Then we got new management, and he basically pushed her to actually DO her job, which stressed her out, and she left rather quickly.
My initial thoughts are always to be nice, be open, and things will work out. But you never know when some asshat at a company will screw over the employee. Sometimes HR gets involved and when they do, there isn't much a manager can do about it. I've seen some minor decisions made by CEOs of business units get overturned by a simple HR rule. They even know that you can't fight the system. So my advice to anyone looking to retire is to look out for yourself first. Chances are they are aware of your pending retirement, and you can drop subtle hints without making anything official. Educate yourself on what is and isn't legal, what your HR policies are, and be wary of actually engaging anyone in HR. I've found that they really don't know what the H in HR stands for.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I'm getting to be that age also, but haven't been in the position to give notice, yet. That said, in every place I've worked so far, if you give six months notice, they'll start looking for a replacement immediately, and find a reason to dump you as soon as they're confident of business continuance. Don't do that to yourself.
Consider also, that if you retire you might get some benefits that you wouldn't get if you were, for instance, fired. A big disadvantage to announcing that you're going to leave sometime in the next several months is that it gives the company that long to figure out how to get rid of you at minimum cost to the company.
Even if your boss is a good guy and wouldn't do that to you, there are probably people higher up that would see the minimal cost option as business as usual.
Keep in mind also that some companies don't want an employee continuing to work there who has announced his intention to leave, to reduce the risk of pilfering and sabotage. Often, you give two weeks notice and they ask you to leave right away, and pay you for the two weeks.
And finally, your boss knows how old you are. If he doesn't have a plan in place already, it's on him, not you.
So in conclusion: Don't tell anyone. Just do your job up until it's time to give two weeks notice. It's safer for you.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
Of course it's an option:
(1) Assuming you have a paid-off home, rent it out
(2) Go live somewhere where it costs $1000-2000/mo to survive. Bali, Costa Rica, parts of Portugal, you get the drift.
Why do you have to be tied down to the US?
Well OF COURSE you want to let them know you are retiring with plenty of notice. How else will you get the surprise cake in the conference room with all your co-workers awkwardly standing around the table doing a fake applause at your accomplishments?
You act like people are rational or reasonable and that they will not cut off their nose despite their face. Better to play it safe and not say anything.
So, if you expect an upcoming raise or a bonus, that might be a reason to wait.
(particularly if you have a pension plan where your payout is proportional to your salary at retirement! But those are pretty uncommon these days.)
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> This will allow him to plan a cautious transition. He will want the time to do it gradually rather than all at once. Trust me, your boss will love the idea of giving the new guy time to master each piece of the job before taking on the next one. Orderly transitions are worth the money.
All true and good. I'll add that where I worked the person leaving did a lot of the transition planning and that worked well because they were effectively TELLING their boss and everyone "here's what needs to be done before I go, and how long it will take". Looking at it in reverse "here's a ton of stuff that won't get done, and will cause problems, if you don't keep me until July."
So we'd have a rough schedule:
Over the next few weeks I'll document the processes for X, Y, and Z, and all admin passwords needed and other access information, etc.
Next month I'll show Bob how to do A, B, and C.
Then I'll let Bob do it himself (asking me questions as needed) and I'll check his work, clarifying any issues. We can then discuss whether it appears that Bob will be able to take over these tasks, or if someone else is needed to help.
In February we'll finish up the project I've been leading for the last year, etc. Bob will need a backup in case something happens to him, so in March Bob and I will walk through the processes with Sue, so she is also familiar with them. February and March I'll bring Bob into the monthly meeting with Very Important Client so they can meet him, and he can see how we conduct that monthly meeting.
The flip side of that is you're telling the boss "if I leave today, nobody will know how to do X, Y and Z, or A, B, and C."
At my last job, retirements were planned a couple YEARS in advance. That made for smooth transitions. When I left for a new job, I started planning an orderly transition as soon as I had a good interview, more than three weeks before my last day.
You're right, but wrong.
At-will employment does allow either party to terminate the employment with zero notice for no reason. However that absolutely DOES NOT absolve either party of obeying laws around employment. You can terminate me for no reason, but you can't pretend a reason doesn't exist. i.e. if a company terminates someone a week after they announce they're pregnant there are sufficient grounds for a lawsuit - at which point the company would need to justify the termination was not on illegal grounds.
Age is protected status.
Retaliation is also illegal. You can't fire someone because they gave notice to terminate their employment. Many companies DO decide to go with leave in lieu of notice for employees with privileged access. I've had that more than once and it amounts to a couple-week vacation where I'm technically on-call but have all my access cut so can't do anything.
If you give notice of retirement in 6 months and they are stupid enough to fire you for "no reason" shortly after, you'd have a pretty solid lawsuit in the making. Not to mention they'd easily get crucified in the media over it and any cost to just pay you out even for 6 months would be minor in comparison.
You can get rich if you own a politician, but you have to be rich to buy one in the first place.
Retirement is what happens when you think beyond tomorrow and plan for it.
You set aside a good chunk of your pay each pay period and invest it ( intelligently ) with a thirty + year timeline in mind. About one quarter of my pay is what I aim for.
You don't buy overly expensive homes or cars / toys that you can barely afford and you live within your means.
Do it right and you may get to retire someday. Do it very right and you can retire early.
Do it wrong and you'll be working till the day you die and asking questions about what is retirement ?
Seems like most people are overthinking this a bit... Once you're ready to retire, the exact date you stop working isn't very relevant.
My plan would be:
- Wait till the day I'm totally ready to walk out the door
- Walk into my bosses office and say, "Hey boss, I'm ready to retire. How long do you want me to stick around?"
Then it doesn't really matter what their reaction is.
Hasn't ever been true for Fed employees so far as I can tell. The retirement system you're probably thinking of, CSRS, was closed to new employees back in the late 1980's. Everyone since then that hires on is part of FERS, which includes a much smaller pension that can't be drawn from until you're 57, possibly earlier if they're looking to reduce staff and offer early retirement. If you wait until age 62 you get 1.1% per year of service. The rest of FERS is essentially the same as what anyone else can get as it's just Social Security and some matching in a 401K plan called TSP.
CSRS is the older system that was killed off in 1987. It was pretty generous in that the pension was larger, and required fewer years of service. However There was no 401k/TSP matching. CSRS employees were also exempt from Social Security so while they didn't have to put any money into that, they also wouldn't get any money out. It is also worth mentioning that just because you had put in the time to earn the pension didn't mean you could go home at 40 and start collecting checks. You didn't start getting pension checks until age 55.
So to sum it all up, yes, Federal workers do get a pension. However it is smaller than many people think. The pay rate the pension is based on is lower than commercial sector averages. And you can't collect any of that money until you're around the standard retirement age, which is around two decades past 40.
You could possibly do 20 years in one of the armed services, retire at 38 and immediately start drawing a pension check. However military pay is even worse than civilian and is inflated by all kinds of allowances such that the 50% retirement benefit is often far less than people expect. I have yet to meet a military retiree under 50 that didn't go directly to work in another job because they had to make ends meet. I wouldn't doubt that such people exist but they are a rare breed, as most people will refuse to reduce their standard of living to the point that they can live on so little income.
This is the fun part of Slashdot. Dumb fuckers who don't know what they are talking about giving advice like they know what they are talking about.
There is a technical term for such people: "anonymous cowards".
Like you.
I have to say, its sad to see you have nothing in your life to fill your time other than work. Ive just retired at 57, and plan to spend my retirement flying a sailplane I bought with my retirement payout, a plan I have had for many years.
Dont assume because your work is your life, everyone is in the same boat.
Once you reach the point where you're financially independent (able to live off investment returns), why wouldn't you "retire" from your day job? I don't know about you, but I have plenty of things I could spend my days doing.
I have people telling me I'll be bored, but I can remember Summer vacation when I was younger and I was always out having fun. I've been working 20 years and I really miss those 4 months off every year! You can always do consulting or contract work if you want more income.
Costa Rica and Portugal have longer life expectancies than the good 'ol US of Ay. You'd be surprised: good medical care isn't only confined to North America :)