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Efforts Grow To Help Students Evaluate What They See Online (apnews.com)

Alarmed by the proliferation of false content online, state lawmakers around the country are pushing schools to put more emphasis on teaching students how to tell fact from fiction. From a report: Lawmakers in several states have introduced or passed bills calling on public school systems to do more to teach media literacy skills that they say are critical to democracy. The effort has been bipartisan but has received little attention despite successful legislation in Washington state, Connecticut, Rhode Island and New Mexico. Several more states are expected to consider such bills in the coming year, including Arizona, New York and Hawaii.

Advocates say the K-12 curriculum has not kept pace with rapid changes in technology. Studies show many children spend hours every day online but struggle to comprehend the content that comes at them. For years, they have pushed schools to incorporate media literacy -- including the ability to evaluate and analyze sources of information -- into lesson plans in civics, language arts, science and other subjects.

166 comments

  1. Parents need to as well by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Don't count on the schools to do this. Parents need to spend a lot of time teaching these skills. An important concept is that just because many people/reporters say the same thing, it doesn't mean its true. I find examples of stuff that gets repeated in multiple news articles that is wrong, then show them how to figure out its wrong. My one kid is a natural skeptic, the other tends to believe everything. Personal traits are a big factor

    1. Re:Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Most parents do not have those skills themselves.

    2. Re:Parents need to as well by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      I only believe stuff if it's on YouTube.

    3. Re:Parents need to as well by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's even more fundamental than that. People just need to recognise simple things like only using anonymous sources for a story or separating the opinions from the facts.

      Stories in mainstream media are rarely outright fabrications, even rags like the Daily Mail usually have some small amount of truth to them. The bigger problem is that many people can't separate opinion and speculation from factual reporting, leading to them being mislead and screaming "fake news" in equal measure.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Parents need to as well by StormReaver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This has been a problem since the beginning of human civilization. Christians, Muslims, and everyone else who can't distinguish fact from fiction need to be enrolled in the first classes.

    5. Re:Parents need to as well by dmiller1984 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Anonymous sources aren't always a reason to distrust a story. The Watergate story was broken using anonymous sources and that's just one example of a high-profile story that was anonymously sourced. It is good to treat anonymously-sourced stories with some skepticism, though. FiveThirtyEight had a great article over the summer that gave some tips on when to trust an anonymously-sourced article and when to be more skeptical.

    6. Re:Parents need to as well by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And grandparents. Especially grandparents. My mother-in-law is a wonderful 75 year old lady who believes everything she reads on facebook. She comes from a generation where broadcasting was expensive so if you saw it on TV it had a better chance of being true. This is an almost daily thing.

      She was eating garlic a couple of weeks ago because someone said it would help with blood pressure. When I say "eating garlic" I mean she was peeling the paint in the house when she breathed. Yesterday I couldn't find my brown sugar. Turns out white sugar has all kinds of dangerous chemicals in it and brown sugar is healthy, so she's going to try using that in her coffee. I tried to explain that brown sugar is white sugar with molasses added back in and what she was really seeking is something like turbinado sugar, which is only processed in a centrifuge. Whoever made the facebook video apparently doesn't know the difference, neither does she.

      It's difficult to take someone who doesn't have a working bullshit detector and try to install one in them.

    7. Re:Parents need to as well by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      I only believe it if someone in the YouTube comment section thinks it's shilling for some conspiracy.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    8. Re:Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't count on the schools to do this. Parents need to spend a lot of time teaching these skills

      Nothing you wrote supports your premise as to why schools aren't suitable for this form of education while parents are.

      In fact, all you wrote was a statement of your belief followed by personal anecdotes that are only superficially related to the topic and do not actually address your thesis.

      The most charitable reading of your post is that you intended to demonstrate the kind of misleading content online that people need to learn to be skeptical of.

    9. Re: Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a riot coming from you.

    10. Re: Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parents should be the ones doing this. Schools are vassals of state propaganda because that is where,they get funding. they are not necessarily aligned with your child's best interests.

    11. Re:Parents need to as well by arth1 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Most parents do not have those skills themselves.

      A fair amount of them are parents because they believed in abstinence, the rhythm method, or a supernatural being who allegedly hates prophylactics.
      By all means, parents helping their children is a great thing, and one that should be the norm. But it's not something that should be counted on, nor the quality of it believed to make a positive difference.

    12. Re:Parents need to as well by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Sure, it's when there are ONLY anonymous sources that there is a problem. Like that story about the banned words at three CDC. Anonymous sources, but confirmed by the CDC on the record and by leaked memos. Watergate was similar, it was more than just an anonymous person's word.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:Parents need to as well by Joce640k · · Score: 2

      Repeat 100x a day: "Opinion != fact"

      --
      No sig today...
    14. Re:Parents need to as well by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It would be nice if it applied both ways.

      Don't want to look at nudey pictures? Don't look at them. Don't want to drink beer? Don't drink it. Don't want to stick your dong in another man's bunghole? Don't stick your dong in another man's bunghole.

      Instead they push for laws saying you can't look at nudey pics, can't drink beer and can't stick your dong in another man's bunghole.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    15. Re: Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's an argument against public schools in general. Nothing you wrote is specific to the topic of new media literacy. If you hate public schools, well good for you, but its a red herring here.

    16. Re:Parents need to as well by hey! · · Score: 2

      Yes, it's important to confirm that what appears to be multiple sources are actually multiple independent sources. And parents should try to reinforce that. But they have another, more important role, which is laying the groundwork for their children to become critical thinkers. And the single most important lesson that is squarely in the parental wheelhouse is emotional restraint. No you don't hit Johnny because you think he stole your toy, and you don't jump to the conclusion that he stole your toy before you check to see whether you misplaced it.

      Once you believe something because of the way it makes you feel, all the machinery of critical thinking is critically undermined; the output of your reasoning process is corrupted by bad input data.

      Nobody naturally thinks the way you learned to think studying geometry; that's a highly unnatural although very useful skill. People naturally think in more of a Bayesian fashion, weighing the credibility of new evidence in light of their prior beliefs. So what parents need to do is to teach their kids is to believe as little as they can, and to be ruthlessly unsentimental about whatever they do choose the believe in.

      What most parents, and schools, do is the exact opposite. They indoctrinate children in habits of knee-jerk sentimentality and pride. History is probably the worst subject in this regard. Children are taught to believe in pure heroes and villains, so that as adults they can only visualize their political leaders as uncomplicated robots.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    17. Re:Parents need to as well by Shogun37 · · Score: 0

      Generalizations are never true. People who insist on rules like that would do so, regardless of religion. Some of us actually believe in the right to make a choice, so long as it's only your neck on the block. Want to drink? Be my guest. Wanna see nudes? Go right ahead. But don't insist that I have to pay for your liver transplant, or my kids have to see your pics. And being gay is most defintely a choice.

    18. Re:Parents need to as well by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      While I wholeheartedly agree with everything you're saying (we appear to be from the same 'tribe' if you know what I mean), what in reality you're asking our species, as a whole to do, is to evolve faster. As I see it, it's our poor caveman brains that are at the root of many of the socio-political problems that plague our planet-wide 'civilization' (using quotes because many times I am dubious about whether what we have is really 'civilization' at all). We, overall as a species, tend to be more 'reactive' than 'thinking', driven more by hardwired instincts and emotions than by slowing-down-and-thinking-things-through. It of course is even worse with anyone under the age of approximately thirty, which is about when the brain puts the finishing touches on it's development; up to that point people are even more emotional, more reactive, and more impulsive. I'm not saying that we can't teach kids using better methodologies than we do, we most certainly can! But the way of education of late, at least here in the U.S., has been to focus on passing standardized tests, giving the illusion of being intelligent and educated, rather than focusing on teaching kids how to think. I of course am painting with a very broad brush here because I must for brevity's sake, and I know that as with all things there are those who are above the curve (as well as, sadly, below it). But at least on the education side of things that's what I see as a large part of the problem: getting kids to be good at taking tests (so public schools can continue to justify their budgetary needs) at the expense of teaching them life-skills like critical thinking.

      Of course (public) education in this country is now going to be faced with another major roadblock to quality education, in the form of Betsy DeVoss, who would like nothing more than to gut the public school system by way of diverting funding for it with 'vouchers' that will, ironically, only benefit private religious schools, which of course are not likely to encourage 'freedom of thought' or 'critical thinking' in their students. Meanwhile even more severely underfunded public schools will then either close, or only be able to provide the poorest kids with the poorest education imaginable, simultaneously increasing the gulf between the rich and the working poor and producing an entire generation of kids who aren't educationally prepared to make it in the modern world.

      It is my opinion that in order to bring about the reforms in public education necessary to produce kids who are both properly filled with knowledge and who know how to think, we're going to have to halt the agenda of certain special interest groups in this country, swing the socio-political needle leftwards back to the middle, and bring the focus of education back to what's most important: producing generations of adults who are both knowledgeable enough and thinking enough to take on living in the 21st Century in a thoughtful, rational way. This should be (and always should have been!) among the highest priorities of our society -- but we have lost our way, apparently.

    19. Re:Parents need to as well by cstacy · · Score: 1

      The Watergate story [...]/quote> When I was in high school in the years right after Watergate, there were elective subjects (semester classes) that were relevant to understanding the world and the news. There was an introduction to Logic (English department), in which we examined fallacies. The personal term project I came up with was an analysis of radio commercial advertisements. There was of course Current Events (Social Studies). (And the History classes focused on analyzing politics, perceptions, personalities and public manipulation, rather than just dates and facts.) And there was a multi-year series of Journalism classes in which we also produced the school newspaper. In those days, the emphasis was on understanding the difference between objective reporting versus agenda-based storytelling, and ethics. There were other relevant classes in the English department about analyzing what you were reading, but I can't remember the details.I also remember we read and studied books including "1984", "Brave New World", and "The Gulag Archipelago".

      Since that time, things have changed a lot in grades 9-12.

    20. Re:Parents need to as well by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      People who insist on rules like that would do so, regardless of religion.

      In theory they could. In reality, those who actually do push for such laws are almost entirely motivated by religion. They're much more alike than similar in that regard.

      But don't insist that I have to pay for your liver transplant

      I'm sure the man upstairs will ensure that you never need one.

      And being gay is most defintely[sic] a choice.

      Not sure that it's true anyway, but is it relevant? Let me guess, you think it's a wrong one.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    21. Re:Parents need to as well by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      what in reality you're asking our species, as a whole to do, is to evolve faster.

      Many years ago a lecturer told me - course about HCI - that the key thing is to know your users. "Twenty generations back, they lived in caves. A hundred before that and they were swinging from trees," he said.

      I think his numbers were a bit off[1] but the sentiment's about right.

      As for the rest? What you say makes sense, but it doesn't stand a chance against "freaduhm!" and 'lohur taxus!".

      [1] No, it wasn't that long ago. Cheeky!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    22. Re:Parents need to as well by blindseer · · Score: 1, Redundant

      You can make fun of Judaeo-Christian habits, doctrines, and beliefs if you like but the modern world we live in is based on what those beliefs have encouraged and allowed. Much of what we understand of genetics and astronomy came from Catholics. Even the word "university" comes from the tradition of sending people off to learn of what they believe God created.

      Compare this with other religions. Picking one at random we have Islam as an example. They believe in an all powerful god, capable of doing anything for people so long as people believe in this god and worship him with sufficient vigor.

      An example. An Army friend of mine got called up to go "play in the sand" and part of his duties while there was to train the local soldiers how to shoot a rifle. This is something that in the US Armed Forces an enlisted person is expected to master in a week or three of intense training.

      He saw this indigenous soldier shoot wildly at the target before him and stopped him to ask what he thought he was doing. He said that all he had to do was shoot in the general direction and his god would make the bullets find their target. How do you create a prosperous, or even functioning, society with that thinking?

      There's even a term for this idea of hard work relating to prosperity, "Protestant work ethic". Sure, this work ethic comes with a lot of baggage from an imaginary friend in the sky. I'll take that if it means people are free to question the nature of the universe, free to teach their daughters how to read, and think that "God helps those that help themselves". This isn't a binary here, you believe in causality or you believe in a god. Both can be true at once. People can understand that there are rules to the universe and that there is a god that is worthy of worship. So what if it means taking a few hours a week to pray to nothing. At least they aren't praying for their god to bring them success in life.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    23. Re:Parents need to as well by blindseer · · Score: 1

      I only believe it if someone in the YouTube comment section thinks it's shilling for some conspiracy.

      That what "they" want you to think.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    24. Re:Parents need to as well by blindseer · · Score: 0

      In theory they could. In reality, those who actually do push for such laws are almost entirely motivated by religion. They're much more alike than similar in that regard.

      I remember a few lessons from a religion class I had at a private Catholic high school. The reason they stuck with me is that the rules in the Holy Bible weren't all arbitrary if one thinks them through. This was made clear in one of the lessons in that religion class. The lesson was simple, imagine being stranded on an island and having to create a government for this new civilization. There's no guarantee of being rescued anytime soon so what rules you write now have to make a long lasting civilization.

      So, what rules did we come up with? Don't kill people. Don't take other people's stuff. Set aside a small portion of your labors for those that can't work. And so on. What we came up with was basically the rules taught in the Bible. Was this a reflection of our prior teaching as students in a Catholic school? Or, was it an understanding of human nature and how the world works? I say it's both.

      There's plenty of superfluous stuff in the Bible that can be ignored in a modern world, but a complete disregard of the wisdom compiled in the Bible is dangerous for society. Much of the Bible is a shortcut to the philosophy of a functioning society for those that lack the mental capacity to think it all through, children mostly but even adults can benefit from this. I've seen atheist just marvel at the compiled wisdom of the Bible. They don't believe a bit of the whole supreme being thing but they recognize the wisdom contained in Christian beliefs.

      If you feel the need to scoff at Christian habits and doctrine then I suggest you take the time to think of what would happen to society if these beliefs were not followed over many iterations. I thought of giving an example but stopped myself as that might distract from my point. Take a top five of Christian beliefs you believe are mock worthy. Now iterate them over generations. I expect that you will find that at least one, if not all five, will not do well for society.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    25. Re:Parents need to as well by kenh · · Score: 1

      After we teach the students to be more critical about their information sources, can we turn our attention to the teachers?

      I spent a few years in a public K-12 school district, and the teachers were among the least-worldly people I've spent time with - they imagined public funds came from the sky, they attributed capital purchases made through a voter-approved bond effort from 2007 to President Obama (who was elected in 2008, took office in 2009) and despite every teacher earning more than the median family in their state of New Jersey felt they were over-worked and under-paid.

      --
      Ken
    26. Re:Parents need to as well by kenh · · Score: 1

      The Watergate story was broken using anonymous sources

      You ignore the fact, driven home by every account of the Watergate story involving the journalists Woodward & Berstein - their editor, Ben Bradley, spent WEEKS reminding them they needed to get second or in some cases third sources for everything their "anonymous source" told them in the parking garage.

      --
      Ken
    27. Re:Parents need to as well by kenh · · Score: 1

      Like that story about the banned words at three CDC. Anonymous sources, but confirmed by the CDC on the record and by leaked memos.

      You need to look a little deeper into that CDC story - what the press called "banned words" were actually recommendations to assist in getting grant approvals. It's as if their bosses said "calling republicans pin-heads is a bad idea", and after finding the note from their bosses the press claimed they had proof their bosses were limiting their employees first amendment rights by limiting their speech!

      --
      Ken
    28. Re: Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lol. I went to Iraq. I trained Iraqi army soldiers on firing their weapons.

      Literally was told the exact same thing by them.

      No one ever believes me when I tell the story, though. Shit's hilarious.

    29. Re:Parents need to as well by sjames · · Score: 1

      Might want to a little more charitable about the liver or one day someone will decide nobody pays for your heart problem because you refused to have a healthy drink from time to time. Besides, people who fry their livers drinking tend not to get a replacement liver anyway, they're considered a poor risk. The understanding that everyone has their own faults and follies is well understood across a wide variety of beliefs both religious and secular. Also the idea that sometimes bad things happen to good people.

    30. Re: Parents need to as well by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Interesting that you found the same thing and yet my grandparent post was moderated down. Why was that, I ask? Moderated down for too much truth?

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    31. Re: Parents need to as well by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Probably because it's off topic and quite stupid.

    32. Re: Parents need to as well by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Much of the Bible is a shortcut to the philosophy of a functioning society for those that lack the mental capacity to think it all through, children mostly but even adults can benefit from this. I've seen atheist just marvel at the compiled wisdom of the Bible. They don't believe a bit of the whole supreme being thing but they recognize the wisdom contained in Christian beliefs.

      It's true; as an atheist I personally am in awe of the passages telling me how to treat my slaves. On my own I would have just kinda figured that maybe I shouldn't own people, but luckily some sand-people 2,000 years ago thought up detailed rules for how I can do it. That's my kind of wisdom right there.

    33. Re:Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who lived in a cave 800 years back and lived on trees 4800 years back?

    34. Re:Parents need to as well by dmiller1984 · · Score: 1

      The Watergate story was broken using anonymous sources

      You ignore the fact, driven home by every account of the Watergate story involving the journalists Woodward & Berstein - their editor, Ben Bradley, spent WEEKS reminding them they needed to get second or in some cases third sources for everything their "anonymous source" told them in the parking garage.

      Are you saying that isn't going on today? Most stories I read involve multiple sources. Can you point to some instances that only relied on a single source?

    35. Re:Parents need to as well by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      I know it doesn't stand a chance. It's another case of having to change hearts and minds, and it usually takes major disasters to get through to people on that level.

    36. Re: Parents need to as well by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Off topic? Let's see. We have an article that points out that we need more people in the USA with a critical view of what they are told. What happens when you have a population that lacks a public taught critical thought?

      One example, USA. Predominately Christian, about 70%. People are generally free to seek whatever education for their children as they wish. Highly literate, some estimates give 85%, some give 99%. I don't know where this large range comes from but they both agree that the difference between male and female literacy is small to effectively non-existent. To get into the armed forces one must have a high school education, or equivalent, meet minimum requirements on intelligence and moral character. This results in a US Army where every soldier going in has at least the basic idea of cause and effect, and every soldier can at least hit a fucking target with a rifle.

      Another example, Iraq. Predominately Muslim, over 90%. People lack the basic freedom to seek the education they wish. Schools are largely funded by Muslims for the purpose of teaching Islam. Literacy among men is about 85%, and women 70%. To get in the armed forces it appears one must be able to read and do some pushups. The standards on moral character are, shall we say, lax. They will allow child molesters and wife beaters to remain in the armed forces, and be in command of others. They will keep soldiers on the payroll that will state with a straight face that prayer will allow them to hit a target with their rifle.

      What happens when the basics of critical thought are lost on a nation? We get Iraq, a nation that is held together with foreign money and a handful of indigenous people that know that prayer will not send a bullet to the intended target. In the USA this concept of critical thought slips in the slightest and it's considered a national crisis. In Iraq the lack of critical thought is the norm and those people run their military.

      How can I say that this is how the Iraqi military is run? Because this soldier was not slapped across the face by his superiors for stating that his faith would make him a better shot.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    37. Re: Parents need to as well by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Repeating your silly attempt at proselytising does not magically make it on topic. Your entire diatribe boils down to "hurr my crazy beliefs are better than other crazy beliefs", which is pretty retarded, and definitely off topic.

    38. Re: Parents need to as well by blindseer · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure I was moderated down for offending someone's feelings. Facts don't care about your feelings.

      Seems to me that there is in fact a set of crazy beliefs that are better than another set of crazy beliefs. One set encourages discovering the world that their imaginary friend created for them, which requires critical thinking. The other believes that their imaginary friend will bend the world in their favor if only they pray hard enough.

      Let's compare the views of these two imaginary friends on a topic like same sex marriage. The first one says two things, don't do it and follow secular law. I can look up chapter and verse if you insist. The second? Kill those that do it in the most humiliating and public way possible. I'm pretty sure I can find chapter and verse on that too.

      Or, think of the politics of this. A politician may vote the way I like because it's the right thing to do. A politician may vote the way I like because their imaginary friend tells them to. I don't much care why they voted this way, only that they did. Turns out that the followers of one imaginary friend tends to produce generally peaceful and productive societies and the followers of the other imaginary friend does not. Given the choice between the two I'd prefer those with the peaceful imaginary friend over the not so peaceful imaginary friend.

      Oh, to repeat how this is relevant, this peaceful imaginary friend is not antagonistic to things like critical thinking, unlike the other.

      You might prefer a world without imaginary friends but that's not the world we live in.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    39. Re:Parents need to as well by Cacadril · · Score: 1

      And being gay is most defintely a choice.

      But how come I never even feel tempted the least to make that choice, while others have to resist temptation?

      I think it must be inborn

      --
      There is no substitute for common sense. Especially, no body of rules will do.
    40. Re:Parents need to as well by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Mind. Blown.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    41. Re:Parents need to as well by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Compare this with other religions. Picking one at random we have Islam as an example.

      You mean the one that gave us algebra? And where the world's oldest extant universities are, predating the ones you refer to?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    42. Re:Parents need to as well by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      You don't see a difference between not insulting the person signing the cheques and merely using words like transgender? Instead use a euphemism to avoid triggering the anti-science bigots or lie by omission to them?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    43. Re:Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My grandparents aren't nearly as fucking stupid as yours. Nor are my parents.

      Trailer Trash, indeed

      Looks like you lost the genetic lottery, bub.

    44. Re: Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the point you're missing is that anecdotal evidence is offset by anecdotal evidence. I could go outside right now and find some illiterate redneck who earnestly believes God will make his bullets hit the intended target, and then talk to some of my Muslim engineers at work and your entire point is dismissed because I've countered it with mine. Christians and Muslims both are well known for their lack of critical thinking, even if there are some exceptions. It's almost like belief in an imaginary sky friend is itself a bastion against the kind of critical thinking that leads people into scams.

    45. Re:Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't see a difference between not insulting the person signing the cheques and merely using words like transgender?

      You don't see the difference between an exaggeration and the underlying point that the exaggeration is trying to stress?

      Instead use a euphemism to avoid triggering the anti-science bigots or lie by omission to them?

      Hey, the left are the ones who kept telling us that certain words are "offensive", and that saying the wrong thing is a "microaggression", and that conservatives who say or don't say certain things are racist/sexist/homophobic.

      Are you saying you don't like it when this courtesy is extended even to "anti-science bigots" (what a non-bigoted way to think about an entire group of people!)

    46. Re:Parents need to as well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Islam "gave us" algebra in exactly the same way that Nazi Germany "gave us" atomic fission. Otto Hahn, Lise Meitner, Bohr, or Fermi weren't Nazis just because they happened to live and work in the countries occupied by Hitler.

      Similarly, scientists that invented algebra weren't Muslim just because their heads would have been cut off if they didn't communicate in Arabic.
      And you don't get to claim credit for having a "world's oldest university" by the fact that you invaded and enslaved the country that built it.

      Islam is unique, however. 1) It is the only virulent brain disorder equally likely to kill those who are not infected 2) It is the only disease much more likely to kill a person after he/she is cured.

      Not unique components: 1) has a large genetic component: if your parents got Islam, you are likely to catch one too. 2) transmitted by close contact 3) targets weak individuals 4) is facilitated by permissive environments: freedom of speech, liberal society, social welfare, 5) infected individuals are compelled to spread it to the healthy population 6) infected individual will be compelled to sacrifice himself at a mere chance to infect others: this is similar to that ant infected with a brain fungus (Ophiocordyceps unilateralis) that will climb up onto a tall piece of grass such that when it dies, the spores will spread to others.
      It's not their fault.

    47. Re: Parents need to as well by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      You do realize that prior to the US invasion, Iraq was not run by Muslims. Education was secular.

      Your trying to compare totally different things looking through a shit-smeared lens. That's why you keep getting modded down.

    48. Re: Parents need to as well by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Your comments totally ignore the "prosperity gospel" folks and the huge number of christians who behave exactly the way your complaining about muslims behaving.
      Cite some verses. I'd love you educate you, if that's even possible.

    49. Re:Parents need to as well by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      There are no shortage of teachers who believe bullshit. Kinda like people who pull salary information out of their asses without an sort of citations.

    50. Re:Parents need to as well by microbox · · Score: 1

      Most parents, most teachers. Simple truth is we're terrified of _real_ critical thinking, because it pulls apart the core myths of our identity.

      --

      Like all pain, suffering is a signal that something isn't right
  2. Let me give you my open source course plan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lesson 1: Don't trust anything I write.
    Lesson 2: There's no Lesson 2.

    1. Re:Let me give you my open source course plan by arth1 · · Score: 1

      Lesson 1: Don't trust anything I write.
      Lesson 2: There's no Lesson 2.

      Then, logically, is there a Lesson 2?

    2. Re:Let me give you my open source course plan by Cacadril · · Score: 1

      Logically, lesson 2 is wrong.

      --
      There is no substitute for common sense. Especially, no body of rules will do.
  3. wikileaks-like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    excuse me. could somene please post concrete examples of "misinformation" and "fake news"?
    i am reading so much references to fake news but never straight out:"this [example] is fake news."
    maybe "fake news" is "fake" ... so true?
    maybe this is a "pushback" on all the dirty laundry that some people got a hold of and hung out to dry?
    seeding the "fake news" seed .. because there's still explosive laundry out there but hasn't yet been "hung-out to dry" and
    giving this "fake news" seedling time to grown in the minds of the population so that the sharp edge of the explosive (information) is blunted, thus maybe losing the crucial momentum to set off a change?

    1. Re: wikileaks-like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bingo, at least half bingo

    2. Re:wikileaks-like by Pseudonym · · Score: 1

      Any of the web sites run by Jestin Coler would count. Most are defunct now, but Firebrand Left and Conservative Frontline are both excellent examples of fake news sites.

      Oh, and InfoWars.

      --
      sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f(q{sub f{($f)=@_;print"$f(q{$f});";}f});
    3. Re:wikileaks-like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >"a fence in Hungary will not work against illigal immigrants"

      It diverted the flow to other easiest path (What a surprise!): Slovenia. If there is an equal level of fences all around EU: the migrant will just find some other methods. Then yes, it works locally but do not work at EU level.

      >the Russians changed the outcome of the US elections

      I am really not sure how you are able to conclude anything about that without any serious evidence. We know their was some undercover operation but you have no measure of the impact. BUT seems like the Russians are doing the same for other country elections, why continue a failing strategy? Need clearly some investigation.

      >"there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq",

      Seems like you are right.

    4. Re: wikileaks-like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      However, most media doesnâ(TM)t go much out of their owners defined narratives. There is less factual reporting out there in western media than there is in China.

    5. Re:wikileaks-like by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      Oh, and InfoWars.

      You mean fluoridation ISN'T turning frogs gay? Shit. Time for Plan B.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    6. Re:wikileaks-like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fluoridation is indeed not turning frogs gay. However, the female contraceptives in sewage are, because the synthetic hormones aren't readily digested by the sludge microbiota.

      Of course this would be hard for you to believe, since you are such a smart and enlightened liberal.

      Out of curiosity, when was the last time you saw an HPLC or a gas chromatograph? Personally, I suspect you might need to be a conservative to actually do science, as opposed to just spewing bullshit about it.

  4. Whew! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank goodness the state is stepping in to let us know what is real and what isn't. I don't see how this could go wrong at all.

    1. Re:Whew! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank goodness the state is stepping in to let us know what is real and what isn't. I don't see how this could go wrong at all.

      I think you're replying to the wrong story.

      This story is actually the correct way to handle it, by teaching people critical thinking skills. You might be able to argue that the particular skills being taught are wrong, but you can hardly call it "the state is stepping in to let us know what is real and what isn't".

  5. Big problem.... by NormanHaga2580 · · Score: 0

    The big problem is that fact and fiction depend on which side of the political spectrum you belong to.

    1. Re:Big problem.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No it doesn't. When it comes to evidence based things like global warming, evolution and other things that have scientific data and facts behind them, conservatives ignore or just deny those facts and keep their beliefs.

      And because their people are making policy, in the long run America will be weak and behind the rest of the World.

      Belief == opinion with no evidence.

    2. Re: Big problem.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that people want scientific evidence when it doesn't always exist. There is no experiment you can perform to prove that Caesar crossed the Rubicon. You accept it as fact. If I tell you that Jesus healed the sick many dismiss it although I can produce reams of historical documentation and the added evidence of people who were willing to die for these facts. Yet they're often dismissed out of hand. Why?

    3. Re:Big problem.... by Shogun37 · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I hereby christen a New law...Gore's Law. It states that any discussion about facts will ALWAYS involve Global Warming, because all you Cowards go there first. So, to save time, just use Gore's law.

    4. Re: Big problem.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet if you say this to Muslims it will be the left throwing the book at you.

    5. Re: Big problem.... by dfm3 · · Score: 2

      Quite the opposite, actually. The tendency is for people to blindly accept even the most vague or ambiguous evidence when it supports the conclusion that we went it to, and to treat with extreme skepticism any evidence that supports a conclusion we don't want to be true.

      There's a name for the phenomenon, confirmation bias.

      For example, look at "creation science". A significant number of evangelical conservatives who treat climate change with skepticism are perfectly willing to unquestionably accept conclusions about the origins of canyons and other geological features that are based on extremely dubious methods of inquiry.

    6. Re:Big problem.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rumor and news mills don't care about political spectrum. They repeat and amplify everything thrown at their merciless wheels. One for kicks, lols and social acceptance, the other for money and both for status.

    7. Re: Big problem.... by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      If I tell you that Jesus healed the sick many dismiss it although I can produce reams of historical documentation

      Just because someone wrote something down doesn't make it true, especially not when making extraordinary claims.

    8. Re: Big problem.... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      This. A major difference is that crossing a river isn't exactly a difficult feat - I've done it myself, occasionally.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    9. Re:Big problem.... by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 0

      Global warming has good evidence. Acceleration of global warming has evidence (satellite data), lack of acceleration of global warming has evidence (tidal gauge data). Climate models have parameter fitting. CO2 emission restrictions are based on complete fantasy, even ignoring modeling failures they don't honestly take population growth and the desire of people for higher standards of living into account and assume massive engineering feats we don't have the technology for.

      If you honestly look at the effects of population growth while trying to reduce emissions, all the IPCC and company promise is a miserable standard of living for an overpopulated earth. I'd rather assume global warming is not anthropogenic, or our geo-engineering becomes better than even IPCC hopes. If we can ignore overpopulation we can ignore climate growth ... and hope for the best.

    10. Re: Big problem.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet people blindly accept that free will exists when there is none, and even much evidence to the contrary..

    11. Re: Big problem.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I tell you that Jesus healed the sick many dismiss it although I can produce reams of historical documentation and the added evidence of people who were willing to die for these facts.

      Mainly because that "documentation" comes from people who weren't born until a generation or so after the events took place. Also, the existence of rabid fanatics who will die (or, let's face it, kill, conquer, burn, rape, and torture) for those "facts", doesn't lend credence to them in the way you imagine. The reality is, if you look at history you can pinpoint so many points where "facts" about Jesus were outright invented. It throws a lot of doubt on the whole thing.

  6. In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Teach children the neoliberal narrative is fact and any dissenting viewpoints are necessarily "fake news." This is the government stepping in to up their brainwashing game because they're unhappy it's taking so long for their worldview to solidify in the public consciousness and that resistance still exists. Better to get everyone as children and in one generation we'll all be good little sheep. It took a century to make homosexuality acceptable. 20 years for transgenderism. Pedophilia, polygamy, bestiality, moral relativism in general; these will take 10 years maximum with this new plan. The Marxists have won.

    1. Re:In other words by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have definitely proven yourself as a non-critical thinker. Thank you for the defining example you have given us in your post.

      Anyone who believes any of that garbage is most definitely brainwashed, as the brainwashers even admit to doing, and the desired effect. This person is literally bleating out manufactured views like a sheep. Conservatives said they'd do this back in the 70's, and the evidence that is happening is overwhelming. The irony is that the brainwashed truly do believe it's ALL THE OTHERS who are brainwashed, despite the oceans of evidence against their premise. It's staggering to see humans fail at critical thinking so readily.

  7. This is what a Librarian is for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of the things they teach is INFORMATION LITERACY

  8. Telling fact from fiction by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 0

    state lawmakers around the country are pushing schools to put more emphasis on teaching students how to tell fact from fiction

    Doesn't that violate the separation of church and state? Ba-dum-tsss...

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re:Telling fact from fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They already have incorporated the Church of Global Warming into their curriculum. The officially sanctioned religion of the US government.

    2. Re:Telling fact from fiction by blindseer · · Score: 1

      The separation of church and state was not to keep religion from government but from government to stay out of religion. Both are important, which I hope is obvious.

      The separation of church and state is often misinterpreted as "freedom from religion" as opposed to "freedom of religion". What has happened is we see students and teachers in public schools punished for wearing a cross on a necklace, or praying silently before a meal. That is not what separation of church and state was intended to do.

      We saw same sex marriage become law. That in itself is meaningless in the separation of church and state. What we are seeing now, and we were warned would come, is now churches being compelled to perform same sex weddings. The legal argument is that a preacher is performing a civil act when witnessing a marriage, therefore by denying the act of witnessing a civil marriage the preacher is discriminating based on religious belief.

      The same sex marriage people did not ask the government to stop recognizing religious wedding ceremonies, which is what has happened in many other nations that had this same separation of church and state. They wanted religious ceremonies to become a civil act.

      If you want your government fact separated from religious fiction then I'm fine with that. Keep the government out of the church, God damn it!

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    3. Re: Telling fact from fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, a church with verifiable science behind it? Sign me up!

    4. Re: Telling fact from fiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What verifiable science?
      You mean the global "science" of "carbon footprint" selling for trillions of dollars between countries?

    5. Re: Telling fact from fiction by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      What has happened is we see students and teachers in public schools punished for wearing a cross on a necklace, or praying silently before a meal.

      I have no problem believing that this has occurred a handful of times. On the other hand it's ludicrous to suggest that this is policy, that it happens often, or that it is an actual problem in our society.

      Ironically enough, you are a perefect example of the original topic: we need to teach kids how to properly evaluate their news sources. If you had learned how to do that you would not be discussing anecdotes as if they were broad trends.

    6. Re:Telling fact from fiction by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      I'm pretty sure that's all in line with my "teaching students how to tell fact from fiction" joke. In fact it's what I had in mind.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re: Telling fact from fiction by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      The Church of Turing?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  9. critical thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "put more emphasis on teaching students how to tell fact from fiction"

    Schools already have such programs. They're called math and science. But they're too hard for our precious little ones to grasp. Critical thinking requires too much effort. Pressing "like" buttons is so much easier on the brain.

    1. Re:critical thinking by hey! · · Score: 2

      It's not that science is too hard for the precious little ones, it's that it's too expensive and controversial for their parents.

      Yes, science can be hard, but it rewards effort. But you know what's hard but not rewarding? Sitting through an overcrowded biology class taught by someone who barely knows the subject, or worse, thinks Adam and Eve rode around on dinosaurs.

      Because of the unique way we do education in this country, the quality of science education you get varies from world class to third world depending on which state you live in, and for states at the bottom which town you live in. In fact the list of the best high schools in the country are dominated by states ranked roughly in the second quartile from the bottom.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re:Critical Thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, yes, but the danger is that this may (will) be co-opted by the SJWs in education who believe that what they believe this week is The Truth, so not being deceived by falsehoods simply consists of knowing how evil non-SJWs are. Though if we could somehow teach ACTUAL critical thinking skills, then that would be great, I'm just not so sure that that is how this will turn out.

    3. Re:critical thinking by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      First and foremost you need to teach them debating, teach them dialectics, teach them sophistry. Teach them how to put blinders on people so by cherry picking and by locking off modes of thought even truthful science and hard logic can be used to make almost any point.

      If you don't go back to the classics you aren't even trying, science is a false god.

    4. Re:critical thinking by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      This is very true, I grew up in the mid-west and went to a small high school with less than 100 students. The town sits on a lake at the mouth of the river that feeds it and has a lot of tourism making it a wealthy community. There where 19 students in my class 100% graduated and 14 of them went on to college.

      The place I live now 36 miles away has much larger classes with about 1,800 students at the high school and a 76% graduation rate.
       

    5. Re: Critical Thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better not teach them anything, then, for fear of the SJWs.

      It's better that their parents who lack critical thinking skills teach them those skills. I sure am glad my hairdresser mother taught me calculus!

  10. The continuing story by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... teach media literacy skills ...

    What media tells people isn't facts, it's a view of a continuing story. Children tend to have missed most of that story, that history. That is why children have difficultly with the media. Children also haven't received enough history to recognize similarities to past events and look for similar causes. And lastly, sanitizing the world so that nobody dies and nobody suffers means they will "struggle to comprehend" a world that behaves differently.

    ... struggle to comprehend the content ...

    Most of public education is telling children "This is how the world works and what you have to do, to belong". Thinking isn't a part of it which is why playtime is so necessary. That unstructured behaviour teaches us who we are and who other people are. The problem being that as children grow, their playtime becomes more dangerous: strangers, drugs, sex, dangerous machinery (eg. cars, guns). Adults pretending that children won't play means necessary life skills, such as sex education, aren't taught. Children definitely aren't going to think about situations they don't know.

    1. Re:The continuing story by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 0

      At the same time other adults pretend there is no value in teaching kids they shouldn't play and that all modes of voluntary sexual behavior among adults should be taught to be equally acceptable. Which is producing a society unhinged from history, with lots of single parent homes and demographic collapse.

      Civilization was a fluke, there's plenty of people on all sides chipping in to destroy it.

  11. Whaaaaat? by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    These are the same schools that want to teach intelligent design; that slaves were immigrant workers; and that competition is everyone gets a trophy.

    There's no need to teach self-defense in schools.

    Teach the goddam curriculum and the rest will take care of itself.

    Shit fire.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  12. Too late. by ScentCone · · Score: 1

    Teaching this in school? Too late.

    Critical thinking skills start (or fail) long before then. Sure, some of that can be taught later. But getting the foundational how-to-think pieces in place starts (or fails) long, long before that. This is parent stuff first, and is somewhat dulled or honed later on by school teachers. Specific awareness of how to use, say, Google and a fistful of less-bad fact checking resources to tell a kid when they're being lied to is sort of like learning lab techniques. But an embrace of activity in a lab class only comes in kids that have already had their curiosity and some intellectual rigor stoked at home, well before that class happens.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  13. That's the polite version by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    The true version is that vast numbers of parents haven't got a clue, and are stupid. Sad but true. By definition Slashdot readers are wildly atypical.

    1. Re:That's the polite version by Joce640k · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The true version is that vast numbers of parents haven't got a clue, and are stupid. Sad but true. By definition Slashdot readers are wildly atypical.

      This is supposed to change that in the next generation.

      I could sum it up into a soundbite to be recited instead of the pledge of allegience:

      "People deliberately lie, grown-ups can be wrong about stuff even when they're not lying to you".

      --
      No sig today...
    2. Re:That's the polite version by tsqr · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The true version is that vast numbers of parents haven't got a clue, and are stupid. Sad but true. By definition Slashdot readers are wildly atypical.

      Considering the number of commenters who accuse anyone disagreeing with them of being a Russian troll, your assessment of Slashdot readers may be a bit optimistic.

  14. Critical thinking can be caught by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

    Parents do not create critical thinking
    Indeed, the more conservative the parent, the less tolerant of critical analysis of the myths they love (Reagan most beloved President ever for instance) than liberals.
    Critical thinking begins when religion is brought into doubt.
    Pity we can't teach that as a mandatory pass / fail in grade school

    1. Re:Critical thinking can be caught by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      If you look at pictures of Ronald Reagan's funeral, you'll notice there's not a lot of black faces among the mourners.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    2. Re:Critical thinking can be caught by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 0

      Can they look only at Christianity? Or are they allowed to be taught the effects of religion on women in the Middle East as well? Can they look at political correctness? Examing cultural and genetic superiority in producing high standards of living and the religions which make it impossible to think about them?

      Silly me, of course only Christianity ...

    3. Re:Critical thinking can be caught by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reagan's funeral ... attended by former presidents and their families, foreign royalty, heads of state from major allies and other countries? How many "black" faces have been Prime Ministers or Presidents in Europe? Asia? How many black presidents before Obama? How much of Britain's royalty has been black? That number might be inversely proportional to the probability that you are an ass.

      As it turns out, there were "black faces" among those attending. If you observe.

      In the third row, behind the current and former presidents and vice presidents, is a row with at least three or four "black faces" in it. There is another in the row behind that. The row behind that doesn't contain any "black faces" as shown, but it does have an asian face, and there is a "black face" behind her.

      And the military funeral detail carrying the casket, which would be considered an honor and was probably competitive? 25% "black faces" and the officer in charge is black.

      You people are tedious. Maybe it is time to get over it.

    4. Re:Critical thinking can be caught by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      I mean among the general public, jackass.

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    5. Re:Critical thinking can be caught by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      Well, do start with the group who murdered 1 million innocents on CRUSADE
      or do you think that 3K is bigger than 1 million

    6. Re:Critical thinking can be caught by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      Oh, I'm SOOOOOO sure the military guard were volunteers for the detail....not.

  15. Critical thinking ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 2

    ,,, should not be a course tailored for a specific subject.

    We're talking about a single "threat," here.

    When another single threat surfaces down the road are we going to teach critical thinking about that?

    Schools should be preparing students in the general art of knowing the difference between bullshit and wild honey.

    That won't happen until teachers are allowed to teach without the guidance of vacuous-minded outsiders like DeVos, batshit crazy right-wing Christian Evangelicals, and the Texas textbook industry (that mentions Blacks slaves as migrant "workers").

    That won't happen until adults with more sense than god gave a piss ant start voting rationally.

    I'm not optimistic.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  16. A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper by MDMurphy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    https://www.amazon.com/Mathema...

    I gave this book to a young friend when he first left for college. It's a good read and a good teaching aid for critical thinking, especially when it comes to the media. Since it's math-based it's easier to see how "facts" can be presented in a way that distort the "truth".

    Another book I've said would be a great one for high school seniors would be "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter". I found it an enjoyable book that weaved fact and fiction. For students, it might be easy to separate some the extremes as fact ( Lincoln becomes president ) from fiction ( vampires living for centuries ) but there's a lots of other parts that would take knowledge or research. The book was not intended to deceive, so it could be an enjoyable project for students to analyze. It would also be less political than using a news story to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

    1. Re:A Mathematician Reads the Newspaper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "from fiction ( vampires living for centuries )"
       
        How long are vampires supposed to live? I was under the impression they lived for centuries, granted there is a lot of nap time.

  17. Critical Thinking by techdolphin · · Score: 2

    It is called critical thinking, and it is something that should have been taught before and should be taught now. It will be interesting to see if legislators will be willing to give the schools money for this task.

    Other postings have emphasized the need for parents to address this issue, and I agree with that. Once, when one of my children was around 10, she said something that was not true. Both my wife and I said that was wrong. She said, "I saw it on the internet." We then had a discussion about how to evaluate information on the internet and other places.

  18. Curriculum content and standards needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a computer usage teacher I have looked into this. There is some minor question of where this material belongs, computer studies or social science; but there is consensus that it is needed.

    The problem is that "every teacher makes up their own" doesn't work well. Obviously, it creates a significant amount of duplication of effort, it also leads to blind spots. Blind spots are simply content that one person may see as critical while another teacher didn't cover it at all. This may be due to: just didn't think of it, though it was such common knowledge that it didn't need covering, couldn't find a way to present it, the list goes on. An agreed on curriculum should reduce this issue. A curriculum also allows building on a body of knowledge as the students progress.

    I do cover Identifying false information in my middle school classes. I don't feel that I do it as well as I would like and am adding to the way I cover it. This is not a topic that the schools are unaware of. The issue is in finding a way to present it that is acceptable to all stakeholders and has permanence in the students.

  19. The 1980s called by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember how they tried to make us "media literate" in school in the 1980s by analyzing advertisements and writing essays about the dangers of "New Media" and "Amusing Ourselves to Death". And of course about the "Brave New World" of "1984" in 1984. TV would show tacky dystopias set in the 21st century about fictional reality TV shows, and children's series ended in a warning to hit the off switch. I have the impression that most of the people who had suffered through that kind of awareness training went on into advertising.

  20. teach media literacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What. A. Joke.

    Reporters aren't literate. They concatenate cliches and repeat movie titles. Every story is written from this illiterate idiot viewpoint.

    To teach media literacy, all that needs be taught is how *stupid* reporters are, and that editors are even worse.

    1. Re:teach media literacy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup

  21. They used to teach this in school by sycodon · · Score: 4, Informative

    The class was called Critical Thinking.

    I think it was replaced by some kind of "studies" class because Critical Thinking contained too many awkward, yet true, facts.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:They used to teach this in school by cdsparrow · · Score: 2

      This. If they hadn't watered down education in general then this wouldn't be an issue. All it takes is critical thinking and reading a handful of 'news' articles on some subject. Pretty pitiful that you need to read the same story 5+ times before you can begin to form a picture of what's actually happening, but that's where we are.

      Bottom line is fake news isn't fake news, it's propaganda, and people should be able to spot that. Everyone has access to the whole of human knowledge at their fingertips and are too stupid to use it well.

    2. Re:They used to teach this in school by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Older people are just as gullible. If education was better back then they wouldn't fall for re-writing history they lived through first hand, or the obvious lies thrown out by politicians.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:They used to teach this in school by Tuidjy · · Score: 1

      My wife is professor of Psychology in Claremont McKenna. She spends one session in every class of hers on exactly this topic - how to assess the likelihood that something that you encounter online is deliberately false, or produced with an agenda in mind. So this is hardly a new thing.

      I grew up in the 70s, reading Communist propaganda and checking it against the 'trusted people only' bulletin my parents were getting. Yeah, they would have gotten in trouble for me getting at it. No, it was not particularly close to the Truth, either. Yes, there probably were briefing for people who were even more trusted.
      But the the set of skills you needed to detect most of the falsehoods was not any different.

      Nothing new under the sun. It's not that 'They' lie more now. It's just that we are less likely to suspect those of 'Them' who wear 'Our' colors.

      --
      No good deed goes unpunished...
    4. Re:They used to teach this in school by AutodidactLabrat · · Score: 1

      Replying to your sig.
      Fascists murdered 29+ citizens for political reasons between 2002 and 2010 said the FBI.
      To date, not one Anti-fascist has murdered anyone for political reason

  22. Yet we routinely fall for clickbait here by raymorris · · Score: 3, Interesting

    > By definition Slashdot readers are wildly atypical.

    That's probably true. Yet, I often read the articles and find that the headline and summary posted here is very misleading clickbait. In the last several weeks many articles from Verge have been posted here. Most are very misleading, but nobody here questions them.

  23. And US law makers? by VeryFluffyBunny · · Score: 2

    And what about US law makers who regularly propagate fake news, fictions, and denialism? You know those idiots who say things like women who are raped don't get pregnant or that the science on climate change isn't settled. An irresponsible and poorly informed leadership isn't going to help cultivate a responsible and informed citizenry. Then there's Fox News...

    --
    Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
    1. Re:And US law makers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Live it up to the enlightened liberal to make smug remarks about science...

      1) As a biologist, I can absolutely tell you that women did historically have a (slightly) lower chance of getting pregnant during rape vs during a consensual intercourse. These were due to several biological reasons, such as an intact mucous cap in non-orgasmic females, spiked corticosteroid levels, etc. But it all turned to shit recently due to the invention of contraceptives: these days, normal sex is more likely to happen with a condom...

      2) Climate change is settled. The causes of climate change, future rates of climate change, and feasibility of reversing such change with economic means are all up for debate, however. Take this from somebody who both wrote and used a large number of computer models. More money is needed for research and better models, not for Al Gore to fly around on his personal jet, spewing pseudoscience bullshit.

      Of course, complexity and nuance must be the Hitler Russia Trump thing these days. Disgusting.

    2. Re:And US law makers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What about politicians who spread propaganda, half truths, their own personal views, and sensationalism do you not understand? The elected aren't irresponsible or poorly informed, I mean look at how wealthy they are. Did you say something about cultivating a responsible and informed citizenry? That sounds risky and hard for getting votes at the $election. Especially when fat cat lobbyist will run tv adds for me. People like tv adds. Especially the shallow sensationalistic FUD. And I don't understand your issue with FOX news. They say exactly what we tell them to.

      Captcha:reassure

  24. Abandon all hope... by bradley13 · · Score: 1

    "Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

    Anyway, be assured that the politicians want students trained to think the way politicians want them to. Only the "other guy" is fake news

    --
    Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
  25. George Carlin: there's a reason education sucks by Whatsmynickname · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This video explains it all

    There's a reason education sucks

    (Paraphrased) There's a reason education sucks. It's the same reason it will never be fixed. Because the "owners" of this country don't want that. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want people smart enough sitting around the kitchen table thinking about how badly they are getting screwed by a system which threw them overboard 30 years ago. They want obedient workers. They want people just smart enough to run the machines, but dumb enough to passively accept increasingly shittier jobs with lower pay and longer hours.

    1. Re:George Carlin: there's a reason education sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "just smart enough to run the machines, but dumb enough to passively accept increasingly shittier jobs with lower pay and longer hours"

      People accept it only because they have no real choice. Banding together involves the willingness to accept the distinct possibility of an even worse outcome.

  26. It's a new year by Bruce66423 · · Score: 1

    Let's start off being nice...

  27. An anecdote by blindseer · · Score: 1

    I'm in this college course, Modern Western Civilization, or something like that. When we get to the chapter on the years leading up to World War II we are told about the horrendous stuff taught to children in public schools by the now dominant National Socialist party. Things like mathematics problems on how much money has to be taken from the able bodied workers to pay for the care of the invalids. When these children grow up they will have learned that it's just math, we have to kill the mentally retarded or they will bring down the country. That's terrible, right? The public schools being used like that is just terrible.

    Then next week comes the chapter on the post war period. We're taught on how the UK had this "lost generation" from all the people killed and injured in the war. To combat this problem what did the UK government do? Well, they set up public schools to make sure all the orphaned and single parent children got an education in a time of need.

    So, I raised my hand and asked what I thought was a simple question. What kept the public schools in the UK from indoctrinating the children like what happened in pre-war Germany?

    The professor asked me to repeat the question, and I did. What kept the UK public schools from teaching horrible things to children like the proto-Nazis did? He thought for a second, waved me off like he didn't have time for that, and moved on with his lecture.

    I saw this as not only a failure of past public schools but also of the present. I was in a room with 20 or so students that were presumably largely educated by public high schools and no one thought to ask this same question. Even more damning is this professor, with a doctorate in history and years of teaching this same course, was not prepared to answer this question. That tells me that while he was doing his studies he didn't have a classmate ask this question, he didn't think to ask this question, and none of his previous students thought to ask this question.

    I'm quite certain I know the answer. There was nothing to keep post-war UK public schools from teaching horrendous things to children. Public schools can only take people's money for education and add the government slant to everything taught, even mathematics, and skim a bit off the top of that money for the administration of the schools. Does a lack of public schools mean children are left ignorant? Unlikely, that money taken from the people to educate their children in public schools is only diluted with government bureaucracy and indoctrination. Even if you have some parents that would rather spend that money on beer and horse races means that at least the public schools are teaching EVERY child what we'd rather not have them taught.

    Public schools are inherently bad. There is no way to fix them. The government should not be teaching your children. You should be free to choose who teaches your children. There were schools before the government came along to fund them. Quite good schools too. High schools used to teach people to be a capable workforce. Education beyond high school was quite rare until fairly recently. Now we have people with doctorates in history unable to answer a simple question from an ignorant undergrad student taught in a private high school.

    I have to wonder if I got a better education in a private high school than that professor got in graduate school.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:An anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      Regarding public schools teaching horrible things, what exactly prevents private schools from teaching horrible things?

      You should be free to choose who teaches your children.

      It appears that you are. You were taught in a private high school, not a public one.

    2. Re:An anecdote by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Public schools are inherently bad. There is no way to fix them. The government should not be teaching your children. You should be free to choose who teaches your children. There were schools before the government came along to fund them. Quite good schools too.

      When I grew up, the largest non-public school was the Catholic schools. In fairness, there were some Jesuit schools that actually taught their students how to think, and how to look at both sides of the argument, although most of the time they didn't agree with me. But most of the Catholic schools were just propagandizing their students, against abortion, for example. They were a force for sexual repression (until they lost their credibiliy in the child abuse scandals). A friend of mine was teaching English in a Catholic school, and he left because if they found out he was gay they would have fired him. (And this was post-Stonewall.) If a female teacher got pregnant they would have fired her. And the Catholic schools supported government policies, like the Vietnam war, more strongly than the public school teachers did.

      There were liberal Catholics, and a few liberal Catholic schools (which tended to be expensive). But most of the Catholic elementary and high schools were full of conservative indoctrination.

      But they were better than the private segregation academies in the South.

      (If you look outside the US, you see countries like Pakistan where there are no public schools, just religious schools, which are Wahhabi schools financed b y Saudi Arabia, which teach their students to memorize the Koran and fight jihad.)

      That's the problem with abolishing public schools. Who's going to take their place? It's going to be mostly religious schools, often extremist, and a very few very expensive high-quality private schools.

    3. Re:An anecdote by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Not all states, or nations, are equal on this. Yes, I was educated in a private school. This happened only because my parents has the wealth to pay for my private education (and the public education of their neighbors from their taxes) and personal beliefs that I should not attend a public school.

      It took me, just me, from hundreds or thousands of people to have enough of an education of critical thinking to pose a question that should have been obvious to anyone with a similar education. I guess that makes me part of the 1%. We hear a lot of people getting upset of the wealth and power of the 1%. Did these people have the education to realize that maybe these people are the 1% because they got a better education from not attending sub-par public schools?

      Do these people have the education to realize that, mathematically speaking, there will always be a top 1%? If we allow 99% of the people to get this shitty education from public schools then we will inevitably get ignorant fools get dragged around by their nose by anyone that can create a half-assed argument to hate the "others".

      It seems the public school system, like every other system built on the same ideals, is starting to eat their own. They now see that this indoctrination of the public from the public school system is creating a public that can be lead by the opposition. If they begin to teach critical thought in schools then we might just have people learn that public schools aren't such a great idea after all. If taught to question everything then they might just question the very structures that taught them.

      This is the beginning of the end of public education.

      Oh, and this:

      Regarding public schools teaching horrible things, what exactly prevents private schools from teaching horrible things?

      Parental choice, competition, a free market. It will soon become obvious which private schools teach their children well and those that do not. Those that do poorly will fail. A public school that does poorly cannot fail because they have no competition in an area were public education is the only choice. Improving public schools to the level of a private school is near impossible. A bad private school can fall in a single year. A bad public school can continue so long as there is ink in the press that prints the currency.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    4. Re:An anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Parental choice, competition, a free market. It will soon become obvious which private schools teach their children well and those that do not. Those that do poorly will fail. A public school that does poorly cannot fail because they have no competition in an area were public education is the only choice. Improving public schools to the level of a private school is near impossible. A bad private school can fall in a single year. A bad public school can continue so long as there is ink in the press that prints the currency.

      And yet Bob Jones University keeps chugging along, even with young-earth creationism as the foundation of their biology classes. And don't American public schools remove books and fire teachers every so often based on parental complaints? So it seems the issue is less public/private and more skewed towards parental biases and involvement.

    5. Re:An anecdote by blindseer · · Score: 1

      That's the problem with abolishing public schools. Who's going to take their place?

      What of a failed public school? How is that fixed? If you close it then something has to take it's place. What's that going to be? Another public school? The only solution is to not establish public schools in the first place.

      It's going to be mostly religious schools, often extremist, and a very few very expensive high-quality private schools.

      That's unfortunately the risk you run. Parents should still have the choice on which school to send their children to, or not send them to school at all. Parents would only send their children to indoctrination centers like these extremist schools if given no choice (much like many public school systems), out of ignorance of what goes on there (also much like many public schools), or because they agree with what is taught.

      I've talked to people that grew up in places with few private schools. All the schools suck. There's also always one where the misfits that were barred from the other schools end up. That school is just a government funded babysitter or perhaps more accurately a pseudo-prison where students have to be checked for weapons at the door. Is that the kind of school any parent would willingly send their children?

      I don't see the problems that you do of having only private schools. There is a lot of evidence of private schools excelling over public schools. In places where people have demanded the freedom to send their children to private schools, or educate them at home, this is fought by the government. Why is that? Do they fear that the students might get a superior education? I know what they fear, losing their jobs. If they had to compete for their teaching jobs would they be able to do so? Not likely. If they thought public schools were the pinnacle of education then they'd welcome private education, or at least be ambivalent about it. They should be confident that students of a public school will prove to be highly educated, highly successful, and very productive.

      Will there be some students indoctrinated with religious beliefs that any "civilized society" (however you wish to define that) would find abhorrent? Of course. The freedom to succeed requires the freedom to fail. Public schools are not allowed to fail, therefore they will never succeed.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    6. Re:An anecdote by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      What kept the UK public schools from teaching horrible things to children like the proto-Nazis did?

      Probably because they're too busy with rugger, buggery and public humiliation. Did you mean state schools? In the UK public schools are an elite cadre of very expensive private schools.

      There was nothing to keep post-war UK public schools from teaching horrendous things to children.

      Except the public oversight and it being run by a democratically elected government. Not perfect oversight, sure, but it was there in some form.

      Public schools are inherently bad. There is no way to fix them.

      Quite so. They're stuffed full of exactly the sort of toffs that give us Brexit. Oh my mistake, you're speaking like you're such an authority on the British education system that I thought you must know the basics like what the types f schol are here.

      The government should not be teaching your children.

      You state that baldly backed with nothing but opinion.

      You should be free to choose who teaches your children

      You are.

      There were schools before the government came along to fund them. Quite good schools too.

      Yes and they were called PUBLIC SCHOOLS because they were open to the public (if they could afford the fees) and not controlled by the Church and subject to the Church's requirements.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    7. Re:An anecdote by nbauman · · Score: 1

      The best evaluations of schools are done by the National Assessment of Educational Progress https://nces.ed.gov/nationsrep... which is accepted by educators of all political views.

      As far as I know, they're the only ones who have scientifically valid evaluations comparing a wide range of public and private schools. They compared public schools with charter schools, and the results were that charter schools had a wider range of test scores. The best charter schools were equal to the best public schools, but overall, charter schools were slightly worse. The one confident conclusion was that charter schools were not dramatically better. Some people do call them a panacea, and that's not supported by the evidence.

      I think there were some other randomized controlled trials of public vs. private schools, but overall the results were about the same.

      There are also very expensive private schools ($20,000/year or more) that are probably better than many public schools, but much of that is due to the students they select.

      Diane Ravitch was secretary of education in the Bush and Clinton administration. She believed in privatized schools, high-stakes testing, and taking power away from the unions. She wrote many op-eds for the Wall Street Journal saying so. Then she looked at the data. She had a PhD, so she could understand experimental methods.

      She found that privatization, testing, and unions didn't make any difference. The one factor that was most strongly associated with school performance was the student's family income. Schools with wealthy children have better test results. Schools with poor children have worse test results. The effect of teachers is insignificant compared to income.

      As Carl Sagan said, it's not often that a scientist looks at the data and decides that he's wrong -- but it does happen.

      New York City has many excellent public schools. The proof is that there are many informed parents trying to get their children into those schools. In Beacon High School, one of the parents was a very wealthy filmmaker, and he gave the school a donation of what he would have paid in a good private school. Bronx High School of Science, and Stuyversant, have a worldwide reputation for excellence, with long waiting lists. There are other neighborhood schools that are well-known for excellence, and are as good as any public school. In New York City, you can certainly find public schools as good as any private school -- in the judgment of parents.

      Unfortunately there are some bad public schools. These are always in low-income neighborhoods. It's impossible to have top-quality schools attended by students who have all the problems of poverty. If you fix the poverty, the schools will get good results. The Catholic schools in those neighborhoods had extreme selection bias (since most parents could afford to pay, and they would quickly expel students with any difficulties). The first step in solving that problem is to eliminate poverty and inequality, at least to the level of European developed economies, or back to the level of equality that we had after WWII.

      I took a course with Fred Hechinger, the education editor of the New York Times. He covered school districts in New York, in the region, and nationwide. He said that there are many small school districts in the region, run by school boards. In some districts, the school boards are committed to good education and do a good job. In some districts, it's all about whose brother-in-law can get a contract supplying bread to the school cafeteria. So the way to get a good public school is to live in a wealthy district where the parents are committed to education and active in their school board. Your choice is to move. If you're in a region where all the public schools suck, then you don't have a working democracy in that region.

      Of course, if you send your kids to a private school, you also have to be active in the school management. My cousin teaches in a private school.

    8. Re:An anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my 15 years of hiring engineers, not even once have I been able to hire one that went to a private school, because they were incapable of the basic logic one would require to do a high tech job.

    9. Re:An anecdote by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      I was educated in a private school.

      You misspelled indoctrinated.

      we will inevitably get ignorant fools get dragged around by their nose by anyone that can create a half-assed argument to hate the "others".

      I read you upstream, do you realize your describing yourself?

      Your other arguments are all over the place, which makes them hard to address in a systematic manner, I'll try.
      The complaints of 1% are not the fact that a 1% exists, they center around the fact that 1% controls vastly more then 1%, vastly more then 25%, I think it's currently around 40% of wealth. Does that seem fair or inevitable to you? Does that look like something one generation can surmount?

      You also throw out that old bone of bad schools failing in a "market". That might work for people like yourself, who repeat grades multiple times and provide a comparison. Most children do each grade once. Many parents have limited opportunity to compare because they have 1 or 2 children. How can you advocate yanking years out of a child's only chance at childhood and wasting it on market reforms? It's not like we don't know what works, we are hamstrung by apologists and religious con men.

    10. Re:An anecdote by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Why is Finland's education system so good? Read on and find out...
      https://www.theatlantic.com/na...

    11. Re:An anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The complaints of 1% are not the fact that a 1% exists, they center around the fact that 1% controls vastly more then 1%, vastly more then 25%, I think it's currently around 40% of wealth. Does that seem fair or inevitable to you?

      Money knows no prejudice. It flows to those that create value in return. This 1% got this wealth by working for it. Is that fair? I'm not sure how that's even relevant, life is not fair. Is that inevitable? Yes. People will naturally accumulate wealth from providing value. If I give you a sack of potatoes in exchange for a piece of paper with some green ink on it then who got wealthier from that? The answer is we both did, no one trades down. By people trading up, money for products and services, everyone gets wealthier. Does that wealth get distributed evenly? Of course not. Is that "fair"? I suppose it must be, because people gave this 1% their money willingly.

      You also throw out that old bone of bad schools failing in a "market". That might work for people like yourself, who repeat grades multiple times and provide a comparison. Most children do each grade once. Many parents have limited opportunity to compare because they have 1 or 2 children. How can you advocate yanking years out of a child's only chance at childhood and wasting it on market reforms? It's not like we don't know what works, we are hamstrung by apologists and religious con men.

      Do you buy a sack of potatoes without at least inquiring something about the potatoes first? I mean when I go shopping I'll make sure the potatoes are actually in the store before I hand over my money. If I hear of people telling me that someone is selling bad potatoes then I'd be less likely to buy from them. Same goes for schools. I'd expect that parents will shop for schools, interview the teachers, inspect the facilities, check reviews from other parents, and so on. In a private school the opportunity for correcting the market of schools is far simpler than that for public schools. If a private school is not educating students well then parents will tell other parents about it. Don't send your kids to substandard schools and they will disappear. I know they won't go away completely since good schools go bad and new schools appear all the time. For a new school to be successful they will have to prove their value in some way, such as by allowing parents to interview the teachers, inspect the facilities, and so on. If the parents don't like the new school then they will tell others. If they like the school then they will also tell others.

      How does this work with a public school? A public school might still allow parents to interview the teachers, inspect the facilities, etc. but what good does that do unless the parents have the option to go elsewhere? I'm sure they can write their congressman with complaints on how bad their child's school is, and they'll open an investigation, money gets allocated, and nothing really changes. That's because public schools have no incentive to improve. It's not like the parents can put them out of business.

      Public schools don't give a shit. Because they don't have to.

    12. Re:An anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are saying I should think government schools are great because a government agency tells me so? That's not very convincing. Surely you can do better than that?

    13. Re:An anecdote by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      The single greatest determinant of a child's success, is parental involvement. That's how we fix public schools, unfortunately, it can't happen when children live in poverty or get shunted around due to evictions and homelessness. The public schools that are hurting are the ones that deal with these issues.
      The vast majority of public schools are excellent, but some are so bad they drive down the average significantly.

      How do you get that data about the bad potatoes, how any sacks of shitty potatoes have to be eaten? You do realize that each of those "sacks" represents at least a couple hundred kids who are wasting a year of their lives and in the best case trying to catch up at a better school.

      In reality, most kids will stay at the shitty private school because it's convenient, or their friends go there, or their parents are too busy to notice, or their parents have to metric to compare.

  28. cnn + fox + ... with a sprinkle of sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is omition of facts the same as lying no! However, all media has bias and omits facts when it doesn't fit the narrative their base likes. In truth, the media would love it if the world would just become engulfed in chaos. Simple fix, subset payments. If another news outlet has more facts then the news outlet with a subset rates lower and pays some money as a penalty for the absence of information.

    1. Re:cnn + fox + ... with a sprinkle of sense by HermMunster · · Score: 1

      Actually it is lying. When you know the facts and leave out on purpose that which doesn't fit your agenda it is lying, and the worst kind. It is flat out a lie.

      --
      You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.
  29. Simple test really by Big+Bipper · · Score: 1

    How can you tell if a politian is lying ? Answer: their lips are moving. Also applies to advertising, used car salesmen ( anyone wanting to sell you something really ), and almost all social media.

    --
    You live and learn, or you don't learn much.
  30. Sorely needed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I just wish these proposals had been made earlier.

    Maybe, if the populace had been better equipped to deal with fake news stories, we wouldn't have gone to war in Iraq.

  31. Critical thinking by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    needs to be taught, but that would open a Pandora's box. Better keep the folks in the dark.

  32. Um... dude, did you forget the 60s by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    Don't trust over 30? I take it your not old enough to have a teenager, they won't believe anything you tell them no matter how true.

    I doubt this generation is going to be any more critical than the last. If anything it might be less; we've been chipping away at our public school systems for 40 years now. Education more than anything is what gets folks thinking critically.

    It's why we had all those English classes and read all those dull as paint drying books. They're dull because they're complicated. You want a critical and smart electorate? Fund public education evenly. Decouple funding from property taxes. Worked for Norway.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  33. Look at the byline, from Iowa? by blindseer · · Score: 1

    Interesting where this article comes from. A little state like Iowa had the idea that we should be teaching critical thought in public schools. Why would it come from there?

    I have a theory. Iowa sits between the Bible Belt and the socialists in Illinois and Minnesota. A quick internet search tells me that there's a mix of Protestants, Catholics, atheists/non-religious, and even a few Muslims. They've seen the disasters from the religious right to the south and the liberal left to the north. What separates the indoctrination of the Muslims that are becoming problematic in Minnesota from the problems of the Christian doctrine in Missouri? Could that be having a critical view of both?

    Why isn't this coming from a predominately urban or secular state? 80% of Iowans identify as Christian. Could it be the large agricultural community? I mean farmers, ranchers, and those that depend on them, must have a very real understanding of cause and effect that might not be so apparent in urban communities. An urban society is insulated from things like a drought affecting their income like a rural community. They don't see this cause and effect like people that have to deal with bad weather and the lasting effect it can have on them.

    I had to look at how many people in Iowa completed high school compared to other states. To my surprise Iowa is at the top, 90%. So, how did Iowa do on rates of college graduates? 26%, which is average or perhaps a bit below average. Interesting.

    Maybe those hicks in fly-over country aren't so backwards after all. What's the definition of a farmer? A man out standing in his field.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:Look at the byline, from Iowa? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Technically, I'm not even sure you have a hypothesis, you certainly don't have a theory.

    2. Re:Look at the byline, from Iowa? by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Then I will summarize. Is the realization of the need to have critical theory taught in high school a result of exposure to mixed cultures, problems of those mixed cultures in their own state and neighboring states, an inherent need to understand cause and effect from a volatile industry like agriculture, and high rates of exposure to high school education?

      Is there another state has both the proximity to these problems and yet still an arm's length distance from it to see them from the outside? I won't say that this is something that cannot be realized in another state since I'm certain that others could come to the same conclusion anywhere in the USA. I only say that it is interesting this made it to print in Iowa, perhaps due to being something of greater importance, and discussed more openly where it could not elsewhere.

      Another theory, eating corn fed pork results in higher rates of high school graduation.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    3. Re:Look at the byline, from Iowa? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Indiana? Idaho?
      Take a look at Michigan. The east (liberal) vs. west (conservative) and north (rural) vs south (urban / mixed rural), is astounding.

  34. Science Must Fall!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Science Must Fall!? Sjw's at University of Cape Town

    But we has "scientific lightnig to strike humans by african negro shamans and witches" and we wuz kings and shit ...
    And we must "start science anew", and start it like "the african perspective" ...

  35. The problem isn't just knowing critical thinking. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is that most people get tired of fighting back against people who CAN'T critically think.

    I have been butting heads with my parents recently over this. They were rebelling ex-hippie types when I was growing up, while at the same time indulging my father's family's staunch Catholicism. Long story short, they have gotten old and while every day things that they instilled in me as values that should not be taken lightly get eroded by societal change (notably privacy and the asymmetric attitude towards 'corporate intellectual property' versus 'individual intellectual property, such as their identity information, their dna, etc all of which get used without license or reimbursement on a daily basis because you have to give it up in small print somewhere in order to get the services necessary for daily life!') As one example they leave their cell phones sitting in the bathroom with the camera often pointing towards the toilet while charging. Given how many stories we have had on Slashdot about cell phone apps with access to microphones and cameras, how safe do you feel having a random device pointing at you and trusting that it isn't recording?

    Five+ years on, and somehow the glasshole epidemic is entirely forgotten as people place Amazon Echos, and Google Homes, and Apple iHouse devices to spy on them. Buying TVs with microphones and/or video cameras installed so they can start preparing for per viewer licensing costs even as they monetize even new Smart TV as a potential Nielson TV viewership box.

    Growing up was supposed to result in emancipation, but instead I feel more trapped in adult American society than I ever did as a kid. And with each passing day it seems more and more like it's just an asylum with the most mentally ill inmates running it, like sort sort of Joker-run Arkham Asylum.

  36. Fit and Trust by tinkerton · · Score: 1

    That example is too remote for most people and it heavily underestimates how important it is and how much it applies to everyone. The article even refers to it: " a systematic error of inductive reasoning". The key concept is 'fit' and we all use it all the time. The new information has to fit with what you know already. It has to fit with the sources. If it is about people, it has to fit with the people. This is not unreasonable and it is tightly related to trust. If there are conflicts between authorities you look for minimal tension.
    If the NYTimes tells you something bad about a bad person, you believe it because the NYT has good reputation and the bad person bad reputation.
    The idea of proof is then a more advanced idea of fit: it has to fit with statements that have more solidity to them.
    So what does mainstream media do? it comes with a package of what to trust: reputable papers, official sources. Dissident sources should be distrusted. Never trust a mere blog. Don't trust anything our enemies say.

    And what is the supposed remedy? Be critical and verify for yourself. I think that is both valid and fooling oneself. If you have an average intellect and a limited amount of time you use trust almost all of the time. You trust authoritative sources and if they show proof and you read the proof, you trust that the argument is valid wherever you have doubts. If you build up enough confidence in your own thinking you may be able to contradict an official source, but rarely by yourself alone: trust in the official media lowers and trust in other sources is raised who confirm your dissident ideas.

    People like to think they are individuals who decide things for themselves. I think this is fooling oneself. It's bloody hard to get to any decent level of individuality , and starting by accepting how much we rely on other's authority is a good way forward.

  37. Fiction, schmiction by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It would be a good start to teach them to distinguish statements from opinions.

    The failure to make that distinction is what causes at least 50% of the "fake news" hysteria. You can see the confusion right here on Slashdot, even at the highest levels of moderation.

  38. Is humanity that screwed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That they have to be taught this stuff? Do family have no ability, desire etc to make sure their kids grow up?

  39. And yet... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The idea of slavery was (and still is in various parts of the world) perfectly acceptable. The weird thing about the biblical sound bite you use is that itâ(TM)s a whole lot nicer way to manage things in a slavery friendly society. But then you missed that, deliberately or not...

  40. At first glance... by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    ...this seems like either teaching kids HOW to think or WHAT to think.

    Guess which the government would like to choose.

    Guess which one rational people should demand.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  41. Just Recently by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Honduras just had a presidential election... The constitution prohibits more than one term. So the president appointed some judges to override that and stood for re-election anyway.

    The election took place and during the count it became clear he was losing. All of a sudden there was a computer glitch and it took over two weeks to count the vote. In the end he was declared the winner, despite the organisation of America states saying there were irregularities and calling for a new vote.

    The US congratulated the "winner", completely ignoring the controversies
    Argentina and Spain also did

    Thankfully some media outlets questioned the result... But it was quite concerning how quickly some governments were to ignore some serious issues.

  42. Controlling speech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...this seems like either teaching kids HOW to think or WHAT to think.Guess which the government would like to choose.Guess which one rational people should demand.
    Controlling speech (Score:?)
    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 02, 2018 @01:18PM
    Interesting ..... the states that are leading the charge on controlling speech huh?

    It's the "Liberal" states trying to control speech and what the kids/public "should and should not" have access to. Used to be the opposite - all about FREE SPEECH for the libs

    I'm just sayin'

    OH: AND THIS IS THE SECOND TIME I TRIED TO POST THIS..... I FAILED TO PROVE I WAS HUMAN "APPARENTLY" even though my credentials were correct twice..... Hmmmm \Dot

  43. Churches as role models by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And what's more, most westerners have already been indoctrinated to follow religious authoritarianism, and so we're all predisposed to believe bullshit.
    The priests traditionally didn't want their congregations to be informed or have direct access to the scriptures, they much preferred to be arbitrary gatekeepers, for their own perpetuation and benefit.
    Not hard to see why old habits die hard... ... and people really WANT to believe, to belong, to be a genuine FORCE FOR GOD'S (TM) WILL by the force of grace and belief, so how do you think trying to help students evaluate bullshit is going to wash in the bible belt?
    Fail...

    1. Re:Churches as role models by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is an enormous amount of superstition and the religious pipe-vision in the less developed areas of both the Europe and the US. The common factor seems to be small communities, certain livelihoods and low amount of external influences.

        Superstitions are a bizarre phenomenon, though. A city born, young person from a formerly communist country that strived for rationality could be keeping alive her grandmother's superstitions in a very deep and personal level even today, and react to a black cat crossing a street with a gesture. I can only speculate that the irrationality was a necessary counter-reaction to the pursuit of rationality. Some people would say that it was to keep the human spirit or a soul alive.

  44. Back to your momma's teet by HermMunster · · Score: 1

    It people can't figure out for the most part what is true or not without government mandated education in schools then it should be back to your momma's teet, regardless of age.

    Seriously government funded schools with courses teaching students what is truth is such an oxymoron.

    Maybe it is just the idea that the mainstream media isn't honest enough nor has enough integrity to push out a provable truth. Their bias and lack of journalistic integrity is the cause shown clearly by their headlines being so specious, meant to draw clicks for ad dollars -- that takes precedence over well thought-out and researched stories. People just can't figure out who to believe. It is so pathetic. Glenn Greenwald has been trying to report this for the past week and that's sad that so few are taking note. When the news media are unchecked, unlike the branches of government, and they are so wealthy or funded by the elite super rich that even the people don't matter and they continually day in and out feed propaganda that meets their oft hidden agenda then noone will get the truth, ever. Even so, courses teaching truth is insanity. Go back and ask your parents. That's what wisdom is for, it's what age brings.

    --
    You can lead a man with reason but you can't make him think.