A Cryptocurrency Based On a Dog Meme Is Now Worth Over $1 Billion (vice.com)

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A Cryptocurrency Based On a Dog Meme Is Now Worth Over $1 Billion (vice.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Friday January 5, 2018 @10:00PM from the what's-the-world-coming-to dept.

Earlier today, the market capitlization of dogecoin, a cryptocurrency based on a meme about a Shiba Inu dog, passed the $1 billion mark for the first time. VICE News reports: Dogecoin was created back in the early days of the cryptocurrency craze. Launched in December 2013 as somewhat of a joke, the meme-inspired coin was dubbed "the internet currency" and designed to promote a sense of community and generosity rather than simply looking to make money. It gained fame during 2014 when it was used to send the Jamaican bobsled team to the Winter Olympics in Sochi and it even sponsored a Nascar team. The currency has been in relative stasis since, and despite no software updates being released in over two years, the cryptocurrency has risen more than 400 percent in the last month -- though one dogecoin is still worth just over 1 cent.

Even Jackson Palmer, one of the founders of the coin, expressed concern about the hyperinflation of dogecoin. "It says a lot about the state of the cryptocurrency space in general that a currency with a dog on it which hasn't released a software update in over 2 years has a $1 billion+ market cap," Jackson told Coindesk.

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Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-05 22:21 · Score: 5, Insightful

It only works because people have convinced enough other people that it makes sense to invest in it. When that stops being the case it's gone overnight.
The value is completely artificial from start to finish, there's nothing backing it, there's no massive value behind it to stabilize a run. But it exists, and people love new cons.
1. Re: Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-05 22:37 · Score: 0
  
  Thanks for the input, rube.
2. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by NicknameUnavailable · 2018-01-05 23:01 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  Honestly the commodity regulations make less sense in some cases. Bitcoin is definitely a commodity - it has a planned limit, with deflation thereafter because of lost coins. Ethereum on the other hand is a currency with a planned inflation rate to make up for the lost coins and to grow with the user base. What we need for cryptocurrencies to actually take off are different regulations for different things (Bitcoin under the current commodity based taxation, Ethereum and the like under currency regulation, ICO/crowdfunding coins under securities/stock regulation, charities like Curecoin probably as currencies, maybe with some extra incentives tax-wise to get people to focus on computing projects with tangible value behind them, other donation coins meant to fund things like planting trees, etc.) Cryptocurrencies cover a very wide range of different things and should be evaluated independently if they are large enough to be taxed because lumping them all in one category damages their use, in the case of charities and public works projects it actually defies the nature of the tax codes meant to support projects in the public good to consider them commodities.
3. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by CrankyOldEngineer · 2018-01-06 00:32 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  No, NicknameUnavailable. Cryptocurrencies are not commodities. Commodities are physical goods or services that are largely fungible. Like wheat, copper, or oil. Cryptocurrencies are designed to be media of exchange. Their value is only in facilitating trade. (And not even very good at that, in my opinion.) They are not investment vehicles (despite what the US Treasury Dept says) and certainly not goods in the economic sense (ie, they have no instrinsic value).
  
  --
  COE
4. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by serviscope_minor · 2018-01-06 01:55 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  It only works because people have convinced enough other people that it makes sense to invest in it. When that stops being the case it's gone overnight. The value is completely artificial from start to finish, there's nothing backing it, there's no massive value behind it to stabilize a run. But it exists, and people love new cons.
  That's more or less money in a nutshell.
  Money is abstract and it's only valuable because people believe it's valuable.
  Once people stop believeing it's valuable, it stops being valuable and that's when hyperinflation happens. At that point being backed by a state or not makes little difference.
  That applies as much to "normal" money as it does to cryptocurrencies.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
5. Re: Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 02:14 · Score: 0
  
  Sounds like someone missed the boat!
6. Re: Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 02:41 · Score: 1
  
  Fuck off crypto-shills.
7. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 03:09 · Score: 0
  
  The value is completely artificial from start to finish, there's nothing backing it, there's no massive value behind it to stabilize a run.
  All wealth is a shared illusion that depends on others sense of "value" to determine its worth.
8. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 03:57 · Score: 0, Informative
  
  Commodities are physical goods or services that are largely fungible.
  So crypto-currencies have everything in your definition except being physical. And the physical part serves no purpose.
  
  (ie, they have no instrinsic value).
  
  The intrinsic value is the ability to exchange value. They have exactly as much intrinsic value as physical currencies.
9. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2018-01-06 04:34 · Score: 2
  
  Except of course if you have no USD in the US, you cannot own real estate (Give us USD each year or it is taken away), drive a car (Give us USD each year or no license plate), or get a passport.
  Other countries also insist on being paid in your local currency.
  
  --
  Your ad here. Ask me how!
10. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by sound+vision · 2018-01-06 05:22 · Score: 2
  
  No, intrinsic value means "I can burn these dollar bills to kindle a fire" or "I can melt these coins down and make nails out of them". The exchange value is extrinsic - it comes from outside the currency itself. It comes from the other man who is willing to trade for them.
11. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by HiThere · 2018-01-06 05:29 · Score: 2
  
  No. One intrinsic value is "the government has promised that if I pay them enough of this they won't steal my stuff".
  It may not be a very nice intrinsic value, and you may not really trust that the government won't change their mind, but it's still an intrinsic value, and it's *the* intrinsic value that fiat currencies are based on.
  
  --
  
  I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
12. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by HiThere · 2018-01-06 05:35 · Score: 1
  
  No. Wealth are things that you use directly. Food, shelter, companionship, that kind of thing. Money is not wealth, it's a tool that can be used to obtain wealth. For it to be so used it depends on others being willing to accept it in exchange for actual wealth. The value of money is how much wealth you think you can get for it. I'm not sure that the value of wealth even makes sense, but if it does it would be how much money you would require in a fair trade to part with it.
  
  --
  
  I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
13. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by BabyAndTheButterfly · 2018-01-06 05:43 · Score: 0
  
  No, intrinsic value means "I can burn these dollar bills to kindle a fire" or "I can melt these coins down and make nails out of them". The exchange value is extrinsic - it comes from outside the currency itself. It comes from the other man who is willing to trade for them.
  So crypto has intrinsic value? Because you can execute code in a smart contract, store files or other use crypto blockchain applications - makes even more sense than melting gold for nails or jewellery.
14. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by malditaenvidia · 2018-01-06 05:51 · Score: 0
  
  The value is completely artificial from start to finish, there's nothing backing it, there's no massive value behind it to stabilize a run
  
  Perhaps the same could be said about fiat currencies, since they're not backed by gold reserves anymore.
15. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by arth1 · 2018-01-06 06:11 · Score: 1
  
  Perhaps the same could be said about fiat currencies, since they're not backed by gold reserves anymore.
  They're backed by governments with the means to enforce the currency being honoured.
  Cryptocurrency is backed by hope.
16. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by scottrocket · 2018-01-06 08:04 · Score: 1
  
  well now, there are physical Casascius bitcoin with cute little holograms on top. They seem to have gone out of business, but I assume the readable code on top is still "good", I dunno.
17. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by sheramil · 2018-01-06 08:47 · Score: 1
  
  well now, there are physical Casascius bitcoin with cute little holograms on top. They seem to have gone out of business...
  I see that a lot in stories about bitcoin, particularly around businesses that loudly announced they accept them.
  
  but I assume the readable code on top is still "good", I dunno.
  Nobody seems to know.
18. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by serviscope_minor · 2018-01-06 09:31 · Score: 1
  
  Except of course if you have no USD in the US, you cannot own real estate (Give us USD each year or it is taken away), drive a car (Give us USD each year or no license plate), or get a passport.
  Other countries also insist on being paid in your local currency.
  All true, but my point still stands, because countries with similar systems have suffered hyperinflation because people have stopped believing the money has value.
  It's very easy to pay a 1,000,000,000 Zimbabwe Dollar tax bill when you have a 100 trillion dollar note worth about USD 0.2
  People aren't likely to stop believing in the value of the USD any time soon, but it's still a matter of belief and nothing more.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
19. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2018-01-06 10:01 · Score: 1
  
  Your tax bill rises every year with inflation.
  
  --
  Your ad here. Ask me how!
20. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by serviscope_minor · 2018-01-06 10:44 · Score: 1
  
  Your tax bill rises every year with inflation.
  It did in every country where hyperinflation happened too.
  Seriously this is a thing.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
21. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 14:00 · Score: 0
  
  Ha, ha, ha, like fiat currencies are backed up by magic tangibles, and can't disappear overnight.
  You absolutest people crack me up.
22. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Comrade+Ogilvy · 2018-01-06 14:09 · Score: 1
  
  Once people stop believeing it's valuable, it stops being valuable and that's when hyperinflation happens. At that point being backed by a state or not makes little difference.
  You ducked the main argument with a distraction, by simply handwaving that the gov't does not matter, which is a stupid fantasy only popular among bullion sheep, well, and now crypto sheep. Of course, it is always possible for chaos to engulf the US gov't or US economy, and the USD take a beating -- but that is not saying anything everyone doesn't already know. By handwaving that everyone stops believing in, say, the USD, you are handwaving on the scale of "oh, the US gov't ceases to exist" or "oh, the zombie apocalypse is hard on the USD".
23. Re: Commodity "currency" makes no sense by sound+vision · 2018-01-06 15:16 · Score: 1
  
  As far as I'm aware you can't do any of that in Bitcoin specifically. Other blockchain systems, yes.
24. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by NicknameUnavailable · 2018-01-06 16:40 · Score: 1
  
  No, NicknameUnavailable. Cryptocurrencies are not commodities.
  Yes, ignorant-but-outspoken-CrankyOldEngineer. Cryptocurrencies are treated as commodities by the IRS. Everything I stated was based on the current and ideal legal definitions of the words used, not what you pulled out of your ass.
25. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by malditaenvidia · 2018-01-06 16:52 · Score: 1
  
  Still, it is the market that determines their value, just like with cryptocurrencies. Market speculation can bring down fiat currencies (and the economies attached to them) rather easily. In this case, I see no government being attached to them as an advantage and not a hindrance.
26. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by rtb61 · 2018-01-06 17:12 · Score: 1
  
  Commodity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and https://www.investor.gov/intro.... They tend not to agree. You can not really claim marketing as a commodity, bitcoin worth is an illusion created by marketing because it is backed by nothing but itself. It's worth is an illusion and unfortunately for those investing in it, once the illusion collapses, so will the worth of bitcoins evaporate, held up by those trapped by it, desperate not so sell coins that are worth much less than they paid for them. Bitcoins have no future worth because their worth is purely an act of marketing and either that marketing continues to deliver or it fails. You are effectively betting on marketing, the ability to sell the idea of worth where none exist, zero zilch zip, no worth exist in bitcoin beyond the value the ability of marketing to manipulate the market ie the value of bitcoin is the value of it's marketing. Already banned in some countries and that ban will spread, it is inevitable.
  
  --
  Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
27. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by NicknameUnavailable · 2018-01-07 01:49 · Score: 1
  
  I claimed that the IRS treats all cryptocurrencies as commodities for tax purposes, learn to read and stop buttraging over the fact you didn't buy any cryptocoins. This is a site for nerds, blockchain is a cool technology, regardless if you missed the initial mining (I did, but I'm not exactly crying over it or typing furiously at people on the internet out of envy and rage like yourself.)
28. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by serviscope_minor · 2018-01-07 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  You ducked the main argument with a distraction, by simply handwaving that the gov't does not matter
  No you misunderstood very fundamentally my argument. Ultimately it's people's collective belief in the currency that matters. If the currency is an instrument of the government, then that is very heavily influenced by people's belief and trust in the government.
  Every actual currency which has undergone hyperinflation has been backed by a government.
  Somehow you managed to misinterpreted what I said as somehow I think the US government is about to collapse and the dolar will hyperinflate. I've no idea how you think that follows from what I said. People believe very strongly in the US government, after all.
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
29. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-07 08:37 · Score: 0
  
  "Normal" money is backed by a government. If you send me a bill for $1000, and I turn up at your office with 50 $20 bills, then my debt to you is discharged and you can't pursue it further, whether or not you wanted or requested payment in that form. That's what "legal tender" means.
  Cryptocurrency isn't backed by any such promise. If you send me a bill for $1000 and I send you a bitcoin - yes, a whole bitcoin - in payment, you can keep the bitcoin and continue suing me for $1000, and you'll win that case because me giving you a bitcoin isn't legally discharging the debt.
30. Re:Commodity "currency" makes no sense by PPalmgren · 2018-01-08 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  The USD isn't backed by a commodity but instead the entire US economy and US fiscal policy. The fed has shown a willingness to create domestic debt in order to maintain currency stability. That kind of reliability is why it's seen as the safest currency worldwide.
In Dog We Trust by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-05 22:37 · Score: 0

So says the dyslexic... may our currency thrive in these strange times as we help to accelerate climate change.
Wow - what r you doing? by jfdavis668 · 2018-01-05 22:39 · Score: 1

so scare - Concern
Re: Why do all of you hate Jesus? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-05 22:49 · Score: 0

Because you're a moron!
Gud doge by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-05 22:50 · Score: 1

All of my Doge got stolen. Such sad. So angery.
Only because of bitcoin by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-05 23:09 · Score: 0

dogecoin has a value worth a certain amount of bitcoin and bitcoin has a certain (very high right now) cash value.
Dogecoin's value is only because of bitcoin's value.
With that said, it's certainly a better coin than bitcoin. Transactions are fast and low fees.
Pronuncification by bestweasel · 2018-01-05 23:16 · Score: 3, Funny

Is it pronounced doggycoin, Dogecoin (as in the onetime rulers of Venice) or something else? I have to know before i invest.
1. Re:Pronuncification by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-05 23:33 · Score: 0, Troll
  
  It's pronounced "gay autistic cartoon shit" like every other piece of shit millennial idea.
2. Re:Pronuncification by serviscope_minor · 2018-01-06 00:24 · Score: 1, Funny
  
  Is it pronounced doggycoin, Dogecoin (as in the onetime rulers of Venice) or something else?
  such leters many pronunciation
  wow
  TO THE MOON!
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
3. Re:Pronuncification by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 03:56 · Score: 2
  
  Is it pronounced doggycoin, Dogecoin (as in the onetime rulers of Venice) or something else? I have to know before i invest.
  Do-ge-coin: "Do" as in dog, "ge" as in gene so sounds like gee which is also the dgy sound in kludgy, "coin" as in coin.
  Put it all together and its "dodgycoin". And that's also all you need to know before investing in it.
Please explain cryptocurrency by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-05 23:29 · Score: 1

What functionality or value does any cryptocurrency provide that normal cash and banks don't?
I don't get it.
1. Re:Please explain cryptocurrency by BabyAndTheButterfly · 2018-01-06 00:40 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  1) it's a decentralized database 2) no banker telling you what you can do with your money + no counterparty risk. lookup up fiat money and the central banking scam.
2. Re: Please explain cryptocurrency by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 01:00 · Score: 2
  
  Bank tellers tell you what you can do with your money?
  What African shithole do you live in mate?? USAmerica?
3. Re: Please explain cryptocurrency by BabyAndTheButterfly · 2018-01-06 01:36 · Score: 0
  
  nope, i live in a western country with modern democracy. i will give you examples: when you want to withdraw cash, you have to notify beforehand because they really don't have the cash on hand and also you have to tell them the reason why are you withdrawing. when you receive larger than normal sums of money, you will be questioned - account freeze is possible. if you want to wire money to bitcoin exchange, you can't do so with some banks. the recent news is VISA is cancelling debit cards funded by bitcoin. and so on... you can also loose "your" money because the bank goes belly up - bail-in laws are already in place in EU. go figure...
4. Re: Please explain cryptocurrency by BabyAndTheButterfly · 2018-01-06 01:38 · Score: 0
  
  in the US you can't even carry too much money on you because it can be legally seized if the cop wishes so. madness.
5. Re:Please explain cryptocurrency by JaredOfEuropa · 2018-01-06 01:39 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  1) So?
  2) Anyone can follow your transactions, not just the bank guys
  3) Counterparty risk lies with the buyer. No fraud protection
  Fiat money is hardly a scam. Central banks can and do manipulate the value of money, and generally they do so to keep inflation at healthy levels. They do not always succeed, but in general the value of your money is pretty stable when it's managed by a decent central bank.
  
  --
  If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
6. Re: Please explain cryptocurrency by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 01:47 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Thats what you get living in a third-world police state.
  That doesnt happen Australia. or Canada. or the UK.
  Move or shut up.
7. Re:Please explain cryptocurrency by DontBeAMoran · 2018-01-06 03:20 · Score: 2
  
  Let's say I start a project. I can easily put a Dogecoin or any other crypto-currency wallet address on the website so people can make donations.
  There wouldn't be a PayPal blocking the withdrawal of funds because of "reason X", no credit card company taking their cut and no bank freezing my account.
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
8. Re:Please explain cryptocurrency by DontBeAMoran · 2018-01-06 03:23 · Score: 1
  
  Anyone can follow the transactions, but unlike banks they cannot block them.
  
  --
  #DeleteFacebook
9. Re: Please explain cryptocurrency by Kiuas · 2018-01-06 05:03 · Score: 2
  
  Thats what you get living in a third-world police state.
  That doesnt happen Australia. or Canada. or the UK.
  Move or shut up.
  Eh... What? I'm presuming you're a fellow westerner and as such you're doing a fucking poor job in defending western values and people's right to govern themselves.
  A police state is one in which the citizens have no means of changing the way they're ruled and policed. North-Korea being the most blatant example but there are plenty of others, like China, which is not a third world country (anymore) but is certainly totalitarian in its policing and the citizens don't have a say in this. Now for such countries I think as a European that the 'move or shut up' -card may actually be valid. That is, if I put myself into the shoes of a North-Korean who realises the state of things, I'd almost certainly attempt escape rather than try to change the regime because the only realistic way of doing so would be to have an uprising against a large army and a populace most of whom worships the leader as a demi-god because they don't know any better.
  The US however is a quasi-democracy. In that the people have a say in who rules them, although currently the electoral collage makes it so that votes from people in some states are worth more than others which makes it possible to get elected as the leader of the country with a minority vote as has now happened twice in the 2000s, so it's not a strict democracy. Whether you consider this a feature or a bug is another thing but the point is they can change the system if they want to so telling them to 'move or shut up' is possibly the dumbest thing to do, especially since it's not trivial to move in and settle to another country.
  The whole reason democracies are deemed superior is that they allow for people to change systems they find unjust. And the Americans have shown themselves to be quite capable of this on many social issues: gay marriage, the legalisation of weed and so on, which by itself destroys the argument of a 'police state'. However it's true based on what I've read here and elsewhere that the doctrine of actual policing is broken in the US in many places. The use of force has gone out of hand (the resent swatting incident for example) and the seizures of money are a problem and so on. So the US isn't a police state, it's a state with bad policing. The difference between the 2 is huge. And the important thing is that the bad policing can be changed by the people via voting.
  
  --
  "It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
10. Re:Please explain cryptocurrency by BabyAndTheButterfly · 2018-01-06 05:38 · Score: 1
  
  1) there are so many startups working on different blockchain products that we will have to wait and see what comes out of it 2) already answered in parallel thread - bitcoin cannot be blocked while banks do block transactions so you cannot spend anywhere you like 3) there is no counterparty risk like with a bank where you loose your money. if you need fraud protection as a buyer, you can easily pay for escrow service - paypal or other company will integrate bitcoin and provide such services.
11. Re:Please explain cryptocurrency by neurovish · 2018-01-06 06:12 · Score: 1
  
  Let's say I start a project. I can easily put a Dogecoin or any other crypto-currency wallet address on the website so people can make donations.
  There wouldn't be a PayPal blocking the withdrawal of funds because of "reason X", no credit card company taking their cut and no bank freezing my account.
  At least until you try converting your cryptocurrency into govt money and the exchange is "down for maintenance". The exchanges (well, *somebody*) also take a cut when you make a transfer, it's just not of the magnitude that credit card companies do.
12. Re:Please explain cryptocurrency by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 18:56 · Score: 0
  
  Don't have to block transactions when there's such a backlog that they'll just fall off and be voided.
NetJ by gbjbaanb · 2018-01-05 23:42 · Score: 5, Interesting

I will just remind our younger readers of the dotcom boom, where tech stocks were seen as the new big thing and pumped up a bubble that eventually crashed. You can tell the top of this by looking at a tech company that was registered on the NASDAQ called NETJ.COM,
This had all the right words in the name, "net", "J" (for Java, hot at the time) and ".com" but its description of what the company did was:

The company is not currently engaged in any substantial activity and has no plans to engage in such activities in the foreseeable future
and this raised several $110 million in IPO funding from ordinary investors when it floated.
So a dog coin cryptocurrency "worth" $1bn... just same shit, different day.
1. Re:NetJ by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 00:23 · Score: 1
  
  Amen.
2. Re:NetJ by geekmux · 2018-01-06 01:19 · Score: 2, Interesting
  
  I will just remind our younger readers of the dotcom boom, where tech stocks were seen as the new big thing and pumped up a bubble that eventually crashed. You can tell the top of this by looking at a tech company that was registered on the NASDAQ called NETJ.COM,
  This had all the right words in the name, "net", "J" (for Java, hot at the time) and ".com" but its description of what the company did was:
  
  The company is not currently engaged in any substantial activity and has no plans to engage in such activities in the foreseeable future
  and this raised several $110 million in IPO funding from ordinary investors when it floated.
  So a dog coin cryptocurrency "worth" $1bn... just same shit, different day.
  Some odd shapes painted on a canvas, by some guy named Picasso. A used baseball, that some guy named Babe scribbled on. A beat-up old guitar strung upside-down that some weird guy named Jimi used to play with his teeth. An old book of notes by a guy named da Vinci. Old bottles of rotten grapes. Shiny rocks and yellow rocks we mine out of the ground that we melt and polish.
  The formula for value (1% subjective and 99% bullshit) was established long before the .bomb or cryptocurrency came around.
  Snapchats "substantial activity" was losing hundreds of millions of dollars every year before their IPO and valuation of $20 billion. Makes you wonder how far we really are from the .bomb era of valuation.
3. Re:NetJ by serviscope_minor · 2018-01-06 01:57 · Score: 1
  
  So a dog coin cryptocurrency "worth" $1bn... just same shit, different day.
  many prospectus such IPO
  wow
  NetJ didn't do anything.
  Dogecoins is going TO THE MOON!
  
  --
  SJW n. One who posts facts.
4. Re:NetJ by magzteel · 2018-01-06 03:42 · Score: 1
  
  I will just remind our younger readers of the dotcom boom, where tech stocks were seen as the new big thing and pumped up a bubble that eventually crashed. You can tell the top of this by looking at a tech company that was registered on the NASDAQ called NETJ.COM,
  This had all the right words in the name, "net", "J" (for Java, hot at the time) and ".com" but its description of what the company did was:
  
  The company is not currently engaged in any substantial activity and has no plans to engage in such activities in the foreseeable future
  and this raised several $110 million in IPO funding from ordinary investors when it floated.
  So a dog coin cryptocurrency "worth" $1bn... just same shit, different day.
  I avoided all the garbage dotcom stocks because I didn't want to get left holding the bag when they collapsed.
  Unfortunately when they collapsed they took the whole market with them.
  During the real estate and mortgage insanity I avoided going into massive debt to buy property I couldn't afford because I didn't want to go broke when the housing market "which could never go down" collapsed.
  Unfortunately when it collapsed it crashed the economy.
  Yet again I'm avoiding a gain for the same reasons.
  Lets hope we all don't all get burned again when it blows up.
5. Re:NetJ by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · 2018-01-06 05:22 · Score: 2
  
  My personal favorite from the time was a company I really wish I could remember the name of. USA Today profiled them along with 5 or 6 other start ups at the time. I can't find info on these guys on the internet, but basically 2 MBA grads from Harvard who knew almost nothing about PCs got this idea - the user would have a space type desktop with planets on it and the planets were like bookmarks where if you clicked on, say, Mars, you would go to the Amazon website. I thought it was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard of, but they opened an office in San Francisco, snagged multi-millions in VC funding, and threw some company stock at Patrick Stewart to get him to be their official spokesperson. For the year or so they were in business, you called these guys and Captain Picard's voice greeted you on their phone system.
  
  I'm reminded of something I read around the time the housing bubble burst in the past decade. A finance writer said his dad told him years ago "Son, when stupid money starts to enter a market, it's time to get out of it." He talked about how a waitress at his favorite restaurant told him that she had just gotten her realtor's license and he said that at that moment he knew that the housing market was going to crash. Stupid money has clearly entered cryptocurrency.
6. Re:NetJ by gbjbaanb · 2018-01-06 05:56 · Score: 2
  
  Same if you watch The Big Short where one chap interviewed a stripper about her real estate deals, and she revealed (fnarr!) that she had leveraged up tot he eyeballs on property as "it only goes up". He figured that was the time it was all going to crash. And then she told him she didn't have 1 property but half a dozen condos she was basically buying through debt and speculation.
7. Re:NetJ by najajomo · 2018-01-06 22:25 · Score: 1
  
  I concur fully with your analysis ..
8. Re:NetJ by TeknoHog · 2018-01-07 03:39 · Score: 1
  
  Prominent Bitcoin entrepreneurs in Finland agree that cryptocurrencies are in a Dotcom-like bubble. That means there's a lot of worthless fluff, but there's also some that you'll all be using in a few years. Or did you seriously quit using the Internet altogether after the Dotcom crash?
  
  --
  Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Hyperinflation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-05 23:43 · Score: 2, Insightful

That's not hyperinflation. Hyperinflation is when the currency loses value so quickly you can't print new bills with high enough numbers in time to keep up. It's the opposite to what is happening here. Dogecoin is inflationary (it doesn't have a coin cap like Bitcoin), but its value per unit growing is the opposite of inflation.
It really bugs me when people mix this up.
Imagine a coin based on a fish meme by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 00:20 · Score: 0

or some obscure rapper-dude.
It would be worth trillions by now...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coinye
That's called deflation, not inflation by johannesg · 2018-01-06 00:22 · Score: 2, Interesting

Inflation is where your coin gets worth less and less. In this case the coin gets worth more and more. That's called "deflation", and economists and politicians want you to believe that it is incredibly bad for you if you can buy more stuff with the same money.
Their reasoning is as follows: "if your money is going to be worth more, you'll wait before buying anything, and that's bad for the economy." Let's investigate that strange claim. Which of the following statements is true?
"I will wait with buying food, because next year it is cheaper."
"I will wait with paying my mortgage, because next year it is cheaper."
"I will wait with buying a car, because next year it is cheaper."
"I will wait paying for a holiday, because next year it is cheaper."
The only category of product that might be affected in some way is replacements for luxury products, i.e. the following statement might actually be true:
"I will wait buying a new mobile, because next year it is cheaper, and my current one still works fine."
The real reason they want you to believe that deflation is bad is this: when new money gets created, it typically ends up in the hands of the richest individuals first. Then it "trickles" down to poorer individuals. However, the speed of price increases is not the same as the speed of trickling down money, and the people at the bottom of the pyramid get the disadvantage of price increases long before they get extra money. In this way, inflation is basically a wealth transfer from the poor to the rich.
Deflation must therefore be the opposite: a wealth transfer from the rich to the poor. And that's why so many economists and politicians are fighting it.
If I had invested in (say) a couple thousand bitcoin when I first heard about it, for a price that was pretty much peanuts, I would now be a very rich man. That's the power of deflation at work.
1. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by smallfries · 2018-01-06 00:45 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  Woot! Free money! Oh, wait... that one doesn't happen does it?
  You are missing the effect on wage rises - that they become wage drops. This is where the system breaks. If everything is 5% cheaper next year then that includes the value of your labor. Your company is getting 5% less income because the price of its products is dropping. That filters through to you...
  But people don't really believe in symmetry - so they refuse wage drops in a deflationary economy. Companies go bust. Banks break. The economy implodes.
  Inflation has a soft mode of failure - value leaks out of the system. Deflation has a hard mode of failure - it works up to the point that a systemic shock destroys everything. YMMV.
  
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2. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by LordKronos · 2018-01-06 01:31 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  You are missing the effect on wage rises - that they become wage drops. This is where the system breaks. If everything is 5% cheaper next year then that includes the value of your labor. Your company is getting 5% less income because the price of its products is dropping. That filters through to you...
  Yes, all these people hyping deflationary currencies miss this. And they miss the next important consequence of that. Most people have more debt than they do savings. Deflation is good for you if you have lots of savings, but not lots of debt. Most people owe $100k or more on a mortgage, but have only a few $k (if that) in savings. Deflation is a benefit for your meager savings, but is a huge hindrance for your much more sizable debt.
  When you buy a mortgage, you owe a fixed amount of currency. With inflation, over time your income tends to increase slightly year to year, and over the years the mortgage becomes a smaller and smaller part of your income, making it more and more affordable. This is great because if you buy something you can afford, you can generally count on being able to afford it until it's paid off (job loss and severe employment cut being the exception, but that will hold true for deflation also, so lets not consider that). But with deflation, it's the opposite. You get your mortgage, and the payment amount stays the same, but every year your income drops slightly, and thus every year your mortgage payment becomes a bigger and bigger portion of your income. A mortgage that is affordable when you buy it will one day become unaffordable for you.
  I don't think that's what people intend, but that is the natural consequence of a deflationary currency.
3. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 01:41 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe you should take a look at wage increases vs. inflation for the past 70 years or so.
  In the current system, it 'appears' as if your wage is going up, but it is in fact shrinking.
  But in a system built on lies... who wants to hear the truth?
4. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by wcoenen · 2018-01-06 01:49 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure whether inflation is good or bad overall, but I don't think inflation is a benefit for those paying of a mortgage. Lenders know about inflation, so they will increase the interest on the loan to compensate for it. There's no way that inflation is going to make your debt evaporate.
5. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by djinn6 · 2018-01-06 02:09 · Score: 1
  
  Most people have more debt than they do savings. Deflation is good for you if you have lots of savings, but not lots of debt.
  And how many of them have debt because the currency is inflationary? For them, it's better to invest in a house and take on that debt than to have the money sitting around. Unfortunately, all that does for the economy is drive up housing and rent prices, which benefit the least productive bunch: land owners.
  
  When you buy a mortgage, you owe a fixed amount of currency. With inflation, over time your income tends to increase slightly year to year, and over the years the mortgage becomes a smaller and smaller part of your income, making it more and more affordable.
  The banks are not morons. They know money is worth less in the future, and their interest rate takes that into account. You're not getting a free ride because your currency is constantly being devalued.
6. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by Stanza · 2018-01-06 02:55 · Score: 1
  
  Is this a joke? The only example in that set holds true is food, because you might starve before it gets cheaper. I have heard many people say:
  "I will wait buying a new car, because next year it is cheaper, and my current one still works fine."
  Maybe yours doesn't work fine, but most people have a car that works, and if it doesn't, they can pay someone to repair it. The reason the phone example is better is because phones are much more noticeably improving in performance and lowering in costs than cars do, but cars also get cheaper and better as time passes.
  Also look at mortgages: "I will wait with fully paying my mortgage, because I get to mortgage payments from my taxes, and investing in bitcoin might have a higher return". When I was a kid, I heard the same about student loans and the stock market. Now that Trump has a passed a tax cut, I am hearing "I will fully pay my mortgage this year, because of the tax cuts, my mortgage won't be deductible next year, so I'm paying it now".
  Even with food, if you thought there was a half off sale tomorrow, but not today, you might wait on buying food. If you were very hungry, you might buy a day's worth of food today, and a week's worth of food tomorrow, rather than buy a week's worth of food today.
  Deflation very much causes these effects. And I'm not convinced deflation is a wealth transfer from the rich to the poor. People who had bitcoin in the early days are now rich in bitcoin now. If you want to get that many bitcoins now, you will have exchange a lot more money (or electricity) than they did to get the same amount. Perhaps they were "poor" back then, but if you are poor now, that doesn't help you any.
7. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 03:09 · Score: 0
  
  when new money gets created, it typically ends up in the hands of the richest individuals first
  You seem to imagine that there's some bureau that prints money and hands it out to rich people. What actually happens is that the government spends more than it takes in in revenue. Government spending is mostly on the poor - something like 80% of government spending is on healthcare, pensions, welfare, etc. - so the process which simulates inflation (deficit spending) tends to benefit the poor.
  Inflation itself benefits those with debt (as a fixed-amount debt becomes devalued by inflation) and detriments those with savings (as savings are also devalued). The poor are more likely to be in debt, so they also tend to benefit more from inflation. Consider: if currency is inflated away to near-worthlessness, being "poor" is suddenly much less important.
  You might also consider that it is socialist countries, with heavy government spending on programs for the poor, that tend to collapse in bouts of hyperinflation (see Zimbabwe, Venezuela). They achieve their goal - economic equality - at the cost of the economy as a whole.
8. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by misexistentialist · 2018-01-06 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  interest rate of course must be higher than inflation or no one would lend you the money, and in a deflationary regime you could have a negative rate mortgage or mechanism to adjust the loan balance; the problem is really the the large swings in inflation caused by corrupt government debasing or otherwise stealing money to buy votes
9. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by bobbutts · 2018-01-06 03:33 · Score: 1
  
  Right now one can make a purchase in an inflationary currency like USD and put their savings in a deflationary currency like DOGE and potentially enjoy the benefits of both systems. Obviously there's great risk that despite being deflationary, DOGE may have overheated in it's exchange rate, and may lose value from this point.
10. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by LordKronos · 2018-01-06 03:33 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Maybe you should take a look at wage increases vs. inflation for the past 70 years or so.
  In the current system, it 'appears' as if your wage is going up, but it is in fact shrinking.
  But in a system built on lies... who wants to hear the truth?
  You are actually wrong. It is not shrinking. Over the long run it in increasing very slightly. Over the last few decades it has mostly been stagnant. Any (slight) decrease is only in the shorter term. When we are talking about mortgage affordability we are generally talking about 30 year spans.
  https://fred.stlouisfed.org/se...
  But you completely miss the point of my post. Yes inflation adjusted income only changes slightly over time (which is to be expected...cost of all good adjusts to what people are making, otherwise we'd all be living in mansions and driving ferraris). But look at that graphs above and notice the slope of that nominal income line. Now realize that the slope of your nominal mortgage payment over 30 years is zero. Your mortgage payment stays the same every year, while your income grows and grows. Even if that larger income doesn't give you more buying power, it makes your large mortgage debt easier and easier to afford every year.
  Now try switching to a deflationary currency. To do that, you just flip the graph upside down. Your real (inflation adjusted) income/buying power stays more or less flat over time, but your nominal income would be sloping down. Buy your mortgage payment would stay flat, and every year get just a little more difficult to afford.
11. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by LordKronos · 2018-01-06 04:02 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  And how many of them have debt because the currency is inflationary? For them, it's better to invest in a house and take on that debt than to have the money sitting around.
  Uhhh, considering the average person's "financial intelligence" (there's probably a better term for it that's escaping me right now), I'm pretty sure their level of debt is not a strategic decision. People are in debt because they are careless with spending, don't plan for the future, don't foresee unexpected expenses. And that's WITHOUT having to foresee the effects of decades of deflation on their spending decisions.
  
  When you buy a mortgage, you owe a fixed amount of currency. With inflation, over time your income tends to increase slightly year to year, and over the years the mortgage becomes a smaller and smaller part of your income, making it more and more affordable.
  The banks are not morons. They know money is worth less in the future, and their interest rate takes that into account. You're not getting a free ride because your currency is constantly being devalued.
  Of course they aren't moron. Of course they figure inflation into it. On the other hand, by comparison, the average person is fairly stupid when it comes to finances. They often can't look 1 or 2 years down the road, much less 10, 20, or 30 years. They can't think about the other things that are going to happen in life, and whether they will continue to be able to afford that payment that seems reasonable today. Having a kid or 2 (possibly by accident), unexpected health complications, having to care for an elderly parent. These are not things most people will take into account when committing to buying a house.
  Inflation provides the vast majority of people with a safety net. Without inflation, a decision you make today that seems financially sound might not be such a good idea when you factor in some future unknown expenses. With inflation, the commitment you make today on buying a house isn't such a large factor in 10+ years when that new expense comes up. On the other hand, deflation is the exact opposite. A seemingly financially sound decision today does not remain financially sound 10 years from now even if no new expenses come up. So now, not only does the average person have to prepare for the unexpected, they are required to look 20-30 years down the road and plan for the expected. They have to take 20-30 years of deflation into account and realize what their income is likely to be that far away to decide if they are likely to be able to afford a house. For the vast majority of people, that's asking a hell of a lot.
12. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by LordKronos · 2018-01-06 04:09 · Score: 1
  
  Wow, that was a very well thought out and informative reply. Thank you for enlightening me with your superior knowledge on the subject. I'm just sad that, unlike your previous reply to me, this reply didn't contain any more inaccuracies.
13. Re: That's called deflation, not inflation by c6gunner · 2018-01-06 04:16 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  If you had a negative rate nobody would lend you the money in the first place. I mean really, you come into my bank, and tell me you want to borrow $1,000 at a -2% interest rate so that, in a year, you can pay me back $980? What kind of moron do you take me for?
  That's part of the problem with deflationary economies right there; even without a negative rate, people are unlikely to lend you money.
  If an economy is inflationary, at 2% that means my $1,000 sitting under my mattress will be worth $980 next year. So if I don't want to lose that $20 it makes sense for me to lend it to you, at say a 3% interest rate, so that I will retain the value of my money and even make a small profit.
  With a 2% deflationary economy, on the other hand, the $1,000 sitting under my mattress will be worth $1,020 next year. I don't need to lend it to you, and take the chance that you won't pay me back; I can just leave it sitting there and it will still be worth more the next year. I would have to be a total moron to risk having you run off with it AND also give you a "negative rate" which guarantees that you pay me back less than you borrowed.
14. Re: That's called deflation, not inflation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 04:25 · Score: 0
  
  Might want to look up "quantitative easing" ...
15. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2018-01-06 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  "I will wait with buying food, because next year it is cheaper." "I will wait with paying my mortgage, because next year it is cheaper." "I will wait with buying a car, because next year it is cheaper." "I will wait paying for a holiday, because next year it is cheaper."
  With the exception of food, all those make sense if your currency is deflating as fast as bitcoin is (although it makes sense to sell your bitcoin if you're using it as an investment). Don't pay your mortgage, lose your 20% equity in your house as they spend months foreclosing, and then use your one deflated mortgage payment to buy it in cash at the auction. Take Lyft/Uber for a few months (totaling one car payment) and buy the car in cash after 3 months for what the down payment would be. Take one holiday this year, or wait a year and use those same funds to take a year off next year, or wait one more year and retire? I'll go without holidays for two years.
  
  Deflation must therefore be the opposite: a wealth transfer from the rich to the poor.
  Poor people owe money. They owe more money if suddenly a dollar is worth more (both they have to give up more stuff and will make less money per hour worked). Rich people have cash. Deflation is good for them (But they also have stock, so inflation is good for them. Rich people are going to be fine both ways).
  
  If I had invested in (say) a couple thousand bitcoin when I first heard about it... I would now be a very rich man. That's the power of deflation at work.
  That's more "bitcoin as an investment" than "bitcoin as a currency" That is, more speculative bubble than deflation.
  
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16. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 04:53 · Score: 0
  
  Dude, you should buy as much dogcoin (or whatever this is called) as possible!!
  You'll be rich and make up for missing the boat on the Bitcoins!!
  Then when you are rich, you can have the last laugh.
  I suggest a mortgage or second mortgage to buy these dogcoins!
17. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by ShamblerBishop · 2018-01-06 05:26 · Score: 2
  
  Deflation must therefore be the opposite: a wealth transfer from the rich to the poor. And that's why so many economists and politicians are fighting it.
  Jesus christ where do these crypto-fetishists get their ideas from...Deflation gives existing holders of money, a greater share of societies wealth, while not having to do anything to earn it - the people who benefit the most from this transfer, are those who already hold a lot of money - i.e. the wealthy.
  If the dollar or any other major national currency switched to accepting deflation, it is a transfer of wealth to those who are already wealthy, at the expense of those who have to go out and actually earn money (whose wages will be growing smaller and smaller over time).
  These crypto-fetishists seem to have invented their own batshit version of economic theory, for hyping Bitcoin and the like - and they get away with it because the economics profession has very little legitimacy these days, as it's mostly batshit itself - just an economic theory warped for justifying political/economic status quo's, rather than trying to define how economies actually work...
18. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by djinn6 · 2018-01-06 05:27 · Score: 1
  
  Without inflation, a decision you make today that seems financially sound might not be such a good idea when you factor in some future unknown expenses. With inflation, the commitment you make today on buying a house isn't such a large factor in 10+ years when that new expense comes up. On the other hand, deflation is the exact opposite. A seemingly financially sound decision today does not remain financially sound 10 years from now even if no new expenses come up.
  Your future cost is going to be equally risky whether the currency is inflationary or deflationary. If it's inflationary, that cost is going to have a higher number in dollar terms. If it's deflationary, it's going to have a lower number in dollar terms. But the absolute value is going to be the same compared to your income.
  
  In a deflationary system, you can simply save up to protect against the risk. If you start with a satisfactory amount saved, you can be sure that amount is going to cover the risk no matter how much time passed. In an inflationary system, no matter how much you save, you can't be sure you'll have enough to cover that risk. You'll need to continually add to it from your income stream. Which do you think is easier for the average person to understand? Something they put away once, or something they need to add an ever increasing amount to?
  
  An inflationary economy punishes people who save, and that's by design. What it ignores is what happens when a risk actually materializes. Instead of putting money away at the bank, what you end up with is a whole bunch of people (who as you say, don't understand finances very well) taking risk that is both unnecessary and that they don't fully understand.
  
  It's only worked so far because the government is able to step in and eat up all of the bad debt whenever the risk actually materializes, as it did back in 2009. But who knows how long that will last?
19. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by PPH · 2018-01-06 05:29 · Score: 1
  
  Poor people owe money. They owe more money if suddenly a dollar is worth more
  Yes. But wages are 'sticky'. It's difficult to negotiate a raise during a time of inflation. So wage earners lose out in terms of real earning power. On the other hand, it's even more difficult to negotiate a wage cut during times of deflation. So, automatic raises in terms of actual wealth.
  Guess which situation the investor class fears the most.
  
  --
  Have gnu, will travel.
20. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by PPH · 2018-01-06 05:39 · Score: 1
  
  "I will fully pay my mortgage this year, because of the tax cuts, my mortgage won't be deductible next year, so I'm paying it now".
  That's state and local property taxes, not the mortgage. Local taxes will no longer be deductible like they once were. Mortgages (the interest) haven't been deductible for many years. Some people handle the payment of taxes on their own. Either because they have no mortgage or their mortgage terms allow them to do so (pretty risky on the part of the mortgage company, so it's rare).
  
  --
  Have gnu, will travel.
21. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by angel'o'sphere · 2018-01-06 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  In a deflation scenario your income does not necessarily drop. Why would it?
  Ah ... you live in the USA ... never mind then!
  
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22. Re: That's called deflation, not inflation by angel'o'sphere · 2018-01-06 05:52 · Score: 1
  
  I mean really, you come into my bank, and tell me you want to borrow $1,000 at a -2% interest rate so that, in a year, you can pay me back $980? What kind of moron do you take me for?
  We take you for a moron who does not know what is going on in the world. The EU has negative interests since 2 or 3 years.
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
23. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by jimbobxxx · 2018-01-06 06:00 · Score: 1
  
  Let's investigate that strange claim. Which of the following statements is true?
  "I will wait with buying food, because next year it is cheaper." "I will wait with paying my mortgage, because next year it is cheaper."
  How about - I won't build a factory this year, or make other investments....it will be cheaper next year.
24. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by hey! · 2018-01-06 07:13 · Score: 1
  
  Of course deflation is not bad for *you* if your money buys more stuff, but it's bad for people selling stuff. It also makes holding any debt -- like car loan, mortgage, or student loan -- extremely punitive. Both inflation and deflation damage the economy, but in different ways.
  Anyhow, given the way many people treat cryptocurrencies it's not entirely inappropriate to refer to this as inflation. People are taking positions in things like BitCoin beyond what they need to facilitate anonymous transactions because they're speculating. Interest in cyrptocurrency is largely as an asset rather than a medium of exchange.
  
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  Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
25. Re: That's called deflation, not inflation by c6gunner · 2018-01-06 07:23 · Score: 1
  
  It's nice of you to assume ignorance on my part, but I'm quite aware of what's been going on in the EU. Their negative interest rates were a result of the fact that the EU was absolutely desperate to try and stimulate the economy. From an individual investor point of view negative rates are absolutely retarded, and anyone with a lick of sense would never put their money into a stock or bond with a negative return. A long term negative rate just drives people to pull their money out of banks and either hold cash or put it into gold, silver, etc.
26. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2018-01-06 08:58 · Score: 1
  
  Assuming all poor people keep their jobs. Of course, the sticky wage theory also says that people will lose their jobs to bring the total wages down. So some poor people are super screwed, and others are just equally screwed (cause most of their money is going to rent, long term contracts like leases and debt. All of those are also sticky.
  
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27. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by Jeremi · 2018-01-06 10:10 · Score: 1
  
  Lenders know about inflation, so they will increase the interest on the loan to compensate for it.
  Of course they can't do that on a fixed-rate loan (at least not until end of the loan's fixed rate period if it's an ARM). They try to account for that risk by making the interest rates higher on fixed-rate loans than on variable-rate loans, of course, but they have to try to thread the needle there -- if they guess too low, they could lose money in the event of unexpected inflation, or if they guess too high, their loans won't be competitive and and they'll lose business to the competition.
  TLDR; it is possible for inflation to benefit the payer of a mortgage, but only in the (hopefully rare) case where inflation spikes up significantly higher than the lender thought likely when drawing up the terms of the loan. And if that happens, people usually have other problems to worry about.
  
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  I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
28. Re: That's called deflation, not inflation by angel'o'sphere · 2018-01-06 16:20 · Score: 1
  
  It is much more complicated than 'stimulating the economy' (because obviously the evonomy is not stimulated at all).
  Anyway, at the moment you ccan ask your self: put the money into a bank and lose 1% each year due to negative interests, lend it to someone for -0.5% or no interest or +0.5% etc. or keep cash at home (or another place).
  In other words: it is not moronic to lend money for -0.5% if you save by that another -0.5% bank interests.
  A long term negative rate just drives people to pull their money out of banks and either hold cash or put it into gold, silver, etc.
  And that is the goal of the interest politics, cut down the amount of floating credits. The less money the banks have in their accounts, the less ccredits they can hand out.
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
29. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by ceoyoyo · 2018-01-06 16:32 · Score: 1
  
  The thing you're missing is that the majority of the money we spend is on luxuries. Food? You could probably do with less than half the food budget if you had to. Mortgage? Owning a home is a luxury. It's almost always a poor financial decision (the 2010s being a notable, and scary, exception). Buying a car? Buying a new car is a terrible financial decision, even worse than owning a house. Buying used is better, but you can probably get away with a fraction of the cost if you have to.
  A modern economy is built on transactions. The money is mostly imaginary, the production and consumption is mostly frivolous, but all our metrics depend on money being exchanged. The thing that maintains the whole illusion is keeping that happening as much as possible. Inflation is a strong incentive to spend. Deflation is a strong disincentive to spend.
30. Re: That's called deflation, not inflation by ceoyoyo · 2018-01-06 16:39 · Score: 1
  
  Negative interest rates are tricky. The central bank may post a negative rate, but that just means the government is giving money to the commercial banks.
  The banks themselves are unlikely to actually have a negative lending rate, unless the government strong arms them into it. The banks may well *pay* negative interest though, charging you to keep your money in their bank.
31. Re: That's called deflation, not inflation by angel'o'sphere · 2018-01-08 03:44 · Score: 0
  
  Erm, yes it is tricky :)
  Banks are required to deposite a part of their money at the central bank, hence are required to pay negative interest.
  On the other hand they 'gain' from the negative interests when they hand out credits and are required to take,a part of the money from the central bank.
  Bottom line negative interest is not even the same thing as deflation ...
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
32. Re:That's called deflation, not inflation by ahodgson · 2018-01-08 10:13 · Score: 1
  
  Mortgage interest is deductible in the US. The tax reform bill halved the eligible amount.
1 billion? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 01:07 · Score: 0

The market cap is about 1.7 billion or am I reading it wrong?!?
Fake is the word by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 01:29 · Score: 0

Fake president, OK. Fake investment, OK too.
Cryptocurrency value is processing power by ArtemaOne · 2018-01-06 01:30 · Score: 0

Corporations and other entities can crunch massive amounts of data that allow them to not build expensive infrastructure, and can use it as needed, rather than having dedicated servers. This is a real legitimate value, and earning the cryptocurrency is the reward for your computer doing a tiny fraction of the work. It's value goes up as more people use it. It is not some "con" as some people are claiming. Your computer and electricity are doing actual work in exchange for a valuable virtual currency.
1. Re:Cryptocurrency value is processing power by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 02:57 · Score: 2
  
  While it is possible to make a cryptocurrency with a useful proof of work*, most don't do this. Bitcoin wants a SHA256(SHA256(x)) result where a certain amount of LSBs are 0. Some other cryptocurrencies use other hash algorithms. In almost all cases this work has negligible value other than securing the coin.
  *) The algorithms needs to calculate something that is computationally hard as this is what a mining farm will do, but it needs to be computationally cheap to verify whether the results is correct as this is what every full node needs to do. One example is searching prime numbers, eg. PrimeCoin. Another may be protein folding, although verification is more challenging here: it is actually NP-Complete, but you can relatively easily say the result is little removed from the optimum with a desired confidence.
Re: The Rise of Cryptocurrency = Distrust of Gov't by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 01:49 · Score: 0

You went a whole three lines without OBAMAing.
Bravo. So Great. Very Make.
\o/ by easyTree · 2018-01-06 02:28 · Score: 1

I foresee a serious impediment to US infrastructure due to a shortage of bridges ^_^

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Requiem for the American Dream
"Shiba dog dog" by Rick+Schumann · 2018-01-06 02:45 · Score: 0

"Inu" translates to "dog", so stop saying "shiba inu dog", either say "shiba inu" (and stop there) or say "shiba dog".
1. Re:"Shiba dog dog" by DontBeAMoran · 2018-01-06 03:13 · Score: 4, Funny
  
  Such grammar nazi. Much passion. Wow.
  
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2. Re:"Shiba dog dog" by sound+vision · 2018-01-06 05:29 · Score: 1
  
  It's really a consequence of people insisting on using foreign terms without fully comprehending the meaning. Sometimes that ends up as a tattoo with the Chinese character for "giraffe stool". Sometimes you get "dog dog" as a meme. Sometimes you SHINE GET.
3. Re:"Shiba dog dog" by HiThere · 2018-01-06 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  And how do you feel about "ATM machine"?
  
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  I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
4. Re:"Shiba dog dog" by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 07:25 · Score: 0
  
  You're hilarious! I almost spat out my tuna fish sandwich!
5. Re:"Shiba dog dog" by Rick+Schumann · 2018-01-06 14:05 · Score: 1
  
  Heh, yeah, that's another one, and don't forget "PIN number". :-)
6. Re:"Shiba dog dog" by Rick+Schumann · 2018-01-06 14:15 · Score: 1
  
  tuna
  French: "you don't have"
  Bulgarian: "ton"
  Chichewa: "we have"
  Czech: "tonne"
  Greek: "ton"
  Romanian: "thunder"
  Sesotho: "we have"
  Shona: "we have"
  Swahili: "we have"
  Tamil: "supporting"
  Turkish: "Danube"
  Urdu: "muddy"
  Xhosa: "we have"
  Zulu: "we have"
I told you so by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 03:11 · Score: 0

I told you many times in 2017 to get the chance to win up to $200 worth of Dogecoins every hour, for free! Less than a dozen listened. Those who signed up and won already more than tripled their winnings.
1. Re: I told you so by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 07:18 · Score: 0
  
  Why is this link based in India?
2. Re: I told you so by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 07:40 · Score: 0
  
  No idea, but I can assure you I have earned thousands of Dogecoins from that site since it started years ago.
Says radically devout secular humanist by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 03:14 · Score: 0

Who worships himself.
1. Re:Says radically devout secular humanist by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 05:00 · Score: 0
  
  You can say this because you have a distorted understanding of both "worship" and the self. The current religions condone atrocities for the same reason the current governments do: they are both in the late stages of collapse. Just like the dinosaurs. Current governments sometimes "show up". Current gods? Not so much. Peace is created and practiced by humans alone. There is no help from elsewhere, so stop looking there.
  Peace and prosperity to you and yours. Really.
Re: Why do all of you hate Jesus? by DontBeAMoran · 2018-01-06 03:14 · Score: 1

AC already told you but I'll repeat just to be sure: don't be a moran!

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#DeleteFacebook
Re:Why do all of you hate Jesus? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 03:40 · Score: 0

Free dogecoin:
http://freedoge.co.in/?r=15138...
I hate Islam by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 04:25 · Score: 0

Christians and Muslims are a bunch of backward fuckwits. If we really wanted to move the human race forward we'd pull these cave dwellers out and into re-education camps where they can learn some basic physics.
The world is not flat. Angels aren't real. Evolution happened. The big bang happened.
And remember kids, September 30 is Blasphemy Day and this is a perfect opportunity to burn your family's bibles.
1. Re: I hate Islam by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 06:56 · Score: 0
  
  I know the Big Bang happened. Because Father Lemaitre told me. You dumbass. Catholics rule the world you shitstain.
2. Re: I hate Islam by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-06 10:55 · Score: 0
  
  Catholics are not ruling the United States, and never have. They are a hated minority here. Why do you think Trump hates Mexicans so much, it's because of the Church conspiracy.
"Value" by Timothy2.0 · 2018-01-06 05:15 · Score: 1

I think this just shows the dangers of relying on market cap as the defining factor regarding the value of, well, anything...
1. Re:"Value" by ceoyoyo · 2018-01-06 16:48 · Score: 1
  
  This indicates the danger of NOT paying attention to market cap. If you think buying Dodgy-coin at four cents per coin is a great deal (four cents is a lot less than $20,000!) you haven't properly evaluated the meaning of paying four cents for a 1 twenty-five billionth share of something some college students copied and pasted while high.
How does a public blockchain die? by Mr307 · 2018-01-06 06:23 · Score: 1

Not what proceeds it or how the fools will move on to the next SuperDuperMoGoodererCoin, those things are probably not easily predictable as there is an infinite number of 'coins'.
But what are the death throes?
After a blockchain has reached a certain size, does the time per transaction go up significantly if the total number of nodes and or compute rate drops below some threshold of the whole?
Do most or all blockchains require a churn rate of compute time just to stay active?
When all the 'coins' in any particular popular public blockchain are mined, what is the expectation that all the miners wont immediately move on to the next popular blockchain to ride that wave of perceived value?
Once the compute rate drops because 'everyone' has moved on to the next SuperDuperMoGoodererCoin, is a 51% attack trivial on a somewhat stagnant pool of coins?
And probably lots of other questions along the same lines but thats what I could come up with in 5 minutes.
1. Re:How does a public blockchain die? by DontBeAMoran · 2018-01-06 07:49 · Score: 1
  
  The total blockchain size has nothing to do with the speed. It requires ever-increasing storage on a computer, however.
  Not all crypto-currencies use the same mining algorithms. Some don't even require much processing power and rely on other factors.
  Not all crypto-currencies have hard limits. AFAIK Dogecoin doesn't have one, so the miners don't have any incentive to drop the coin and move to another one. The people who have been mining Dogecoin for years are now seeing their investment in time, hardware and electricity finally pay of with a Dogecoin value above one cent per coin - which is more than what Bitcoin was worth in the first-ever transaction in which someone paid 10 000 Bitcoins for two large pizzas.
  
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  #DeleteFacebook
Spaghetti monster by tsa · 2018-01-06 08:30 · Score: 1

This reminds me a bit of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Conjured up as a joke, and now people think they seriously believe in him. Here in the Netherlands there was even a lunatic who wanted to do his Ph.D. defense in Delft with a colander on his head: https://translate.google.com/t...

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-- Cheers!
1. Re:Spaghetti monster by ebvwfbw · 2018-01-07 05:27 · Score: 1
  
  Google is showing a frame with nothing being translated.
2. Re:Spaghetti monster by tsa · 2018-01-07 05:42 · Score: 1
  
  That is strange. For me it works fine, also from the link above.
  
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  -- Cheers!
3. Re:Spaghetti monster by tsa · 2018-01-07 05:43 · Score: 1
  
  Here's the direct link: http://www.dvhn.nl/drenthe/Pas...
  
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  -- Cheers!
4. Re:Spaghetti monster by ebvwfbw · 2018-01-07 05:51 · Score: 1
  
  Thank you so much. Wow. Some crazy people out there alright.
5. Re:Spaghetti monster by tsa · 2018-01-07 06:41 · Score: 1
  
  YW.
  I don't know how the story ended unfortunately. I wonder if he ever got his Ph.D. I personally doubt very much if someone who acts like that deserves it.
  
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  -- Cheers!
Snake Oil South Seas Bubble .. by najajomo · 2018-01-06 22:22 · Score: 1

Snake Oil South Seas Bubble ..
There is a reason for the increase by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-07 12:29 · Score: 0

A New Zealand based exchange called Cryptopia that specializes in the micro-coin (tiny low valued coins that are in small niches, or currently have very little following), uses DogeCoin as one of it's reserve trading currencies. People need to buy DogeCoin to be able to trade them for any of these micro-coins. This creates the demand for DogeCoin, that has driven up the price.
The relative stability of DogeCoin (no new work), it's low value ($0.02) and its circulation (billions of coin) make it ideal for trading micro-coins.
BTC would suck for this purpose. It's too big. There's no granularity in purchase price against micro-coins, it's price varies too much and it's too slow.
DIY Cryptocurrency Mining... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-01-08 03:17 · Score: 0

If you want to get in on the cryptocurrency mining scene, you need a good motherboard that allows for multiple GPUs: ASRock H110 Pro BTC+, ASUS B250, Biostar TB350-BTC, and GIGABYTE GA-H110-D3A.