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20 Years Later, Has Open Source Changed the World? (infoworld.com)

"Most code remains closed and proprietary, even though open source now dominates enterprise platforms," notes Matt Asay, former COO at Canonical (and an emeritus board member of the Open Source Initiative). "How can that be?" he asks, in an essay noting it's been almost 20 years since the launch of the Open Source Initiative, arguing that so far open source "hasn't changed the world as promised." [T]he reason most software remains locked up within the four walls of enterprise firewalls is that it's too costly with too small of an ROI to justify open-sourcing it. At least, that's the perception. Such a perception is impossible to break without walking the open source path, which companies are unwilling to walk without upfront proof. See the problem? This chicken-and-egg conundrum is starting to resolve itself, thanks to the forward-looking efforts of Google, Facebook, Amazon, and other web giants that are demonstrating the value of open-sourcing code.

Although it's unlikely that a State Farm or Chevron will ever participate in the same way as a Microsoft, we are starting to see companies like Bloomberg and Capital One get involved in open source in ways they never would have considered back when the term "open source" was coined in 1997, much less in 2007. It's a start. Let's also not forget that although we have seen companies use more open source code over the past 20 years, the biggest win for open source since its inception is how it has changed the narrative of how innovation happens in software. We're starting to believe, and for good reason, that the best, most innovative software is open source.

The article strikes a hopeful note. "We're now comfortable with the idea that software can, and maybe should, be open source without the world ending. The actual opening of that source, however, is something to tackle in the next 20 years.

220 comments

  1. Open source used to be better as by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    public domain.

    1. Re:Open source used to be better as by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      A lot of people who thought they wanted to released their software as public domain quickly changed their tune when others would make a business out of publishing the software. Authors thought that giving something away for free meant that if anyone makes money on it, they should still see some of it. (yea, they were naive)

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    2. Re:Open source used to be better as by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You don't make money on software; you get a real job. RMS said exactly that in the GNU Manifesto. You have read the GNU Manifesto, haven't you?

    3. Re:Open source used to be better as by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes, I have. I just don't agree with it.

    4. Re:Open source used to be better as by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GPL doesn't prevent the scenario you are describing.

    5. Re:Open source used to be better as by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      And so they released GPL'd software, which Red Hat and Canonical bundled up into packages and charged people for?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Open source used to be better as by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      I read it, I don't think it's true. Right after I read it, I got a job as a software engineer.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    7. Re:Open source used to be better as by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      If you try to sell some software you've didn't write, and start making changes to it, then you're going to have to share those changes. Nobody is getting paid is sort of how GPL works out.

      Example would be the Wine project going from MIT license to GPL license in response to an attempt to fork a closed source version.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  2. first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's changed my life. does that count?

    1. Re:first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does that have to do with you loving a dick up your asshole, faggot?

    2. Re: first by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Trumps going to be shoving cock up his asshole in prison?

  3. How is this even a question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes

  4. 1997???? by mark-t · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm pretty sure I was hearing the term in the late 1980's, especially in regards to unix software, and almost certainly by the time I first heard of Linux in '92.

    1. Re:1997???? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 0

      I'm pretty sure I was hearing the term in the late 1980's...

      They specifically mention "it's been almost 20 years since the launch of the Open Source Initiative". If you didn't know...

      The Open Source Initiative (OSI) is a non-profit organization dedicated to promoting open-source software. -- wikipedia

      --
      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    2. Re:1997???? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2, Informative

      I'm pretty sure I was hearing the term in the late 1980's

      I'm pretty sure you are wrong. In the 1980s the term used was "Free Software".

      "Open source" was a term used by the intelligence community to refer to information gathered from public sources, such as newspapers. But it was not regularly used as a synonym for Free Software until the late 1990s.

    3. Re: 1997???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok dick. I am sure you are wrong. But you post here so much go for it. Zero.

    4. Re:1997???? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      You are wrong.
      Free software was always related to GNU.
      Open Source were all other 'open/free' software you could download.
      I use the term since 1988/1989 and was not even aware that most software *I* called 'open source' is/was in fact 'free software' from the gnu project.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    5. Re:1997???? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Who cares about where open source started or M$ using PR=B$ people to distort it to open sores, a cancer, preferred by organised crime, communist, a virus (lest we forget their true nature). Where is it going and the obvious place is in open coding standards to ensure interoperability something which M$ tried to kill in the most corrupt, self serving and destructive manner imaginable, the active corruption of international standards bodies.

      What is open source software really about in the future, about creating internal coding standards for various main computer elements, to minimise overhead and administrative costs, ensure interoperability, and to enhance durability, stability and security. The basics being a coding language, spreadsheet, database, word processor, cad/cam, graphics, communications (internet et al) and server systems.

      Creating systems to go forward but still maintain existing protocols and of course minimising cost, paying once instead of the demands of infinite greed ie paying an infinite number of times, a wildly insane burden upon human society and an extreme corruption of capitalism ie paying for the same thing over and over instead of just once.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    6. Re:1997???? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I was a bit young in the 80s to care about licenses, but if you'd told me about "free software" I would have assumed it was synonymous with "Cracked by the Nibbler" which is where most of my software came from.

    7. Re:1997???? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The term "open source" was coined by Christine Peterson in 1998, when Netscape opened up its browser's source code.

      Before that, RMS coined "free software" in the early 80s. However, a lot of software was made available as source code but was not free in the sense that the licence had restrictions or didn't enforce freedom like the GPL does. Thus the term "open source" was created.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    8. Re:1997???? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I wasn't contesting that was when the open source initiative started up, but I'm pretty sure I was using the term "open source" to refer to software whose source had been openly published and was available. I think the first such program for which I became aware of this was for the game nethack.

    9. Re:1997???? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between Open Source as "software where you can look at the source" and "software with an OSI-approved license". That's caused a lot of confusion over the years.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    10. Re:1997???? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      To be specific, the Gnu project and FSF use the term "free software". It isn't quite the same as what the OSI calls "open source software", but it's very close. A project under a permissive license (Boost, to name one) is Free Software.

      What's generally related to Gnu is copyleft. Boost is not copylefted.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    11. Re:1997???? by michael_wojcik · · Score: 1

      Certainly the concept of "open source" has been around for many decades; at the very latest it emerged as the complement to IBM's shift to proprietary, binary-only software offerings in the "unbundling" phase after the Consent Decree. As I recall, when I was working at IBM in Cambridge, MA, not long after RMS formed the FSF and began promoting his version of "free as in the way I think it should be" software, there was much discussion of other provided-as-source-with-liberal-license models for software. (Obviously there was a ton of open-source software available at the time, distributed through various means such as UUCP, FTP, and Usenet posts.)

      A quick Google Ngram search shows the phrase "open source" (often hyphenated) was definitely in use prior to 1997, though mostly in the intelligence community to refer to sources of information.

      GN is less clear on the phrase "open source software", partly because GN does not handle serial publications well.

      In any case, while the participants in the 1998 Netscape Summit made much noise about their supposed coinage of "open source" (see e.g. ESR's page about it on catb.org), we already had a number of terms for the phenomenon, even if they were not always accurate ("public domain software") or disputed ("free software"); and the term "open" was widely in use in the industry for specifications and the like - for example with X/Open (formerly Open Group) and Open Software Foundation, both of which originated in the 1980s.

      Claiming that some sea change happened in 1997/1998 with The Cathedral and the Bazzar, the Netscape Summit, the formation of the OSI, etc is typical Matt Asay historiography: "Hey, the stuff I care about is automatically important!". Those events did serve a rhetorical function, providing a nucleus around which the growing commercial interest in FOSS could organize itself. It's easier to persuade the management when there's a consistent vocabulary and they're hearing the same arguments from several sources. But it wasn't any sort of fundamental change - certainly not as important as, say, IBM's unbundling, or AT&T's or BSD's UNIX releases, or the FSF/GPL, or Linux.

      Personally, I've long felt Matt Asay is one of those people who knows a hell of a lot less than he seems to think he does. When he was writing columns for the Register they were rife with error, inaccuracy, myth, and dubious opinion.

    12. Re:1997???? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's been a problem with Open Source and Free Software, both co-opted terms that already had a reasonably understood meaning and then tried to apply a different definition to them. So you have Open Source vs open source (most people aren't going to give you the OSI's definition, rather it is an application for which you can see the source code) and Free Software vs free software (the vast majority of people will tell you it is apps you don't have to pay for). Which leads to more time spent addressing confusion and explaining what those terms mean to you rather than doing meaningful work.

    13. Re:1997???? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between Open Source as "software where you can look at the source" and "software with an OSI-approved license". That's caused a lot of confusion over the years.

      Instead of being called "Open Source" they should have used a term that cannot be conflated with something that already exists, in general what the OSI defines as Open Source is a subset of what most people would consider Open Source. It's worse on the Free Software side - as AC above points out - which most people would indeed view as free apps or apps that you don't have to pay anything for. Instead they should have used a term like Copyleft Software which at least is going to prompt people to ask what it is rather than having to clarify that Free Software means something different to you than it does to them.

    14. Re:1997???? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Not all Free Software is copylefted. The definition of Free Software is clarified by the memorable phrase "Free as in speech, not as in beer." Lots of people have been trying to come up with meaningful and unambiguous words for lots of things. It's not always possible.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    15. Re:1997???? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Not all Free Software is copylefted.

      Then such software is copyleft-compatible. It's a poor choice to try to lump it all together using a term that has a pretty reasonably assumed meaning already, i.e. something that traditionally comes with a monetary cost being designated as Free generally (yes there are exceptions) means it comes without that monetary cost. So apps that don't cost money are indeed free software.

      The definition of Free Software is clarified by the memorable phrase "Free as in speech, not as in beer."

      Except the vast majority have never heard such a phrase (at least not applied to software), hence the confusion, not to mention that the side-effect of free software (as in free speech) also being free of charge adding to that confusion. So when you say "free as in speech, not as in beer" that's not really true, the removal of restriction means it's almost always both those things, just to make it a little more confusing for people.

      Lots of people have been trying to come up with meaningful and unambiguous words for lots of things. It's not always possible.

      But obviously the need to explain this term all the time proves that of all the possible choices it was a poor choice.

    16. Re:1997???? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      But obviously the need to explain this term all the time proves that of all the possible choices it was a poor choice.

      Was there a better one?

      Then such [Free] software is copyleft-compatible.

      Not all Free Software is compatible with the GPL. The FSF once published a list of licenses commenting on whether they were free and whether they were GPL-compatible, although that doesn't cover all copylefts.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    17. Re:1997???? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Was there a better one?

      Yes, pretty much ANYTHING is better, Glabloyfil Software would have been a better choice because at least people wouldn't have any reasonable understanding of what that might mean and aren't going to confuse it with the common usage of a term.

      Not all Free Software is compatible with the GPL.

      I didn't say "compatible with the GPL", even just trying to explain things you're getting confused but at least you're starting to see the problem, free software is just about anything from proprietary closed source applications that you don't pay for, to web-based applications that run on other corporations' servers that you don't pay for to GPL-licensed software to permissively licensed software and the latter 2 you may or may not be paying for in some capacity.

    18. Re:1997???? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      A completely meaningless name is better than Free for software that is free to use to the fullest? I strongly disagree, and if we disagree that much we may as well drop it.

      You didn't say "compatible with the GPL". You said "copyleft-compatible". Not all Free software is GPL-compatible, and I didn't bother looking up other copyleft licenses to see if said Free Software is compatible with them.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    19. Re:1997???? by exomondo · · Score: 1

      A completely meaningless name is better than Free for software that is free to use to the fullest? I strongly disagree, and if we disagree that much we may as well drop it.

      As I said, prefixing something like software to which people generally ascribe a monetary cost with the word "free" generally implies it is free of that monetary cost. If you want to convey something other than that then quite obviously to avoid confusion you should use another term.

      I suggested something like "copyleft-compatible" but for some reason you seem completely unable to disconnect from "GPL-compatible" despite me pointing out multiple times that they are not only *not* the same thing but I never used the latter term. Just like a product name you want uniqueness such that people who don't know what it is will ask what it is rather than just making the generally quite safe assumption that the use of a term like 'free' in that context is free of monetary cost.

      You're being deliberately disingenuous if you say you really believe the best term for this is free software when that means restricted, closed-source, proprietary, patented software that is free of charge and can also mean software that is free of restriction and what it means just depends on who you talk to. i.e. free software is really a meaningless term because it can mean so many different and contradictory things. You can *say* that you believe that if you like but clearly you aren't being honest. Hey Windows 10 was free software for quite a while there, all those free software advocates should have been pretty happy about that.

      You didn't say "compatible with the GPL". You said "copyleft-compatible". Not all Free software is GPL-compatible, and I didn't bother looking up other copyleft licenses to see if said Free Software is compatible with them.

      I haven't found anything that isn't, but I know not all free software is GPL-compatible which is why I explicitly used the term copyleft-compatible rather than GPL-compatible so I still don't understand your fixation on GPL-compatible when you're the only one who has said that.

  5. Kind of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next.

  6. Open source has changed the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The internet was built on open source. In 1997 it was more curiosity or nerdy thing. By 2017 the internet is generating untold sums of money and is utterly essential to the economy. I wish I felt the same excitement for this technology as I did back in 1997.

    1. Re:Open source has changed the world by Cytotoxic · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The internet was built on open source. In 1997 it was more curiosity or nerdy thing. By 2017 the internet is generating untold sums of money and is utterly essential to the economy. I wish I felt the same excitement for this technology as I did back in 1997.

      By 1997 pretty much every company of any size had a presence on the internet. Amazon.com had already been around for a few years by then - selling books online, of all things. The dotcom boom was well underway. Remember Webvan? That was 1996. I mean, sure, a lot of those those local small company websites were loaded down with blink tags in 1997, but still.... It isn't like 1997 internet was only for nerds.

    2. Re:Open source has changed the world by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The internet would have come along just fine over the last 20 years if it were running on IIS and .NET.

      Open source performs best on well established designs. Web hosting, databases, file systems etc are all well understood problems. There isn't a lot of room for innovation in any of these areas so it's perfect for Open Source where tiny incremental changes and maintenance is all you really need. Has Apache substantially changed since 1997? I would argue no and that's fine. IIS hasn't really changed since 1997 either so why spend money on it?

      Where closed source seems to shine though is through projects with leadership and vision. It's easy to implement a new db engine on a broadly understood concept like a database. A concept taught in every CS101 class. It's a lot harder to stay organized and communicate when you're treading new ground and creating things that only 5 people on earth really understand.

      The hard future I see for open source is entering the areas that only serve a handful of people. Niche markets are hard for open source because if there are only 1,000 customers in the world you won't find very many volunteers among those 1,000. And you need a way to ensure one of those 1,000 customers doesn't pay for all of the dev work and then get driven out of business by competitors using the tool for free and charging less. We've stopped helping some closed source products that we license where we've given a lot of time and testing to the company and then not been given a discount on licensing prices when maintenance comes up.

      I feel like there is space for a new quasi-open license where you have to pay for a license, but substantial commits give you a discount. That way companies with no interest in contributing can pay cash and companies with more interest in contributing can pay in code. You could even then have developers who only contribute in code and get paid out in cash in lieu of a license at all. That I feel is the model that could expand open source beyond its current use: Bounty Source software.

    3. Re:Open source has changed the world by PPH · · Score: 2

      The internet would have come along just fine over the last 20 years if it were running on IIS and .NET.

      20 years (or a bit more) ago, I was working in the thick of moving 'enterprise' systems onto this new thing called the web. Built with NCSA httpd and Mosaic. And working in a Seattle area company, we had Microsoft people visiting our operation, pleading with us to use their solutions instead of open protocols and tools. Generally, we just told them (nicely) to f*ck off. In fact, IIs and .NET were produced as (closed) alternatives to HTTP and most of the RFC documented protocols. Had they succeeded in pushing their garbage onto the world, we would be 20 years behind where we are today.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Open source has changed the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Has Apache substantially changed since 1997? I would argue no and that's fine.

      Retard detected. Apache 2.0 was an enormous rewrite.

    5. Re:Open source has changed the world by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      That reminds me about a story at a mayour web mail and now internet company in Germany.
      M$ approached them every month to send sales men to show the M$ solutions to them.
      After years of pestering management desided a group of 'selected developers' should meet those salesmen and evaluate the technology.
      Bottom line it was about M$ selling them an exchange server infrastructure.
      The 'selected dev team' obviously planned to let them run ontoma wall. Anyway, so they had that perfect planned day, with 4 sessiosns of 90 minutes talks about various technologies, where the developers politely asked simple questions.
      And at the end of the day one developer asked: 'this is all nice and good, but can your backend really process 50k emails?'
      The M$ representative nodded and said: '50k eMails per month is no problem. With some tweaking I believe 50k per week is manageable'.
      The developer nodded, too "Well, I was thinking about 50k per hour, on average and about 250k on peak".

      The funny thing is not the missmatch in numbers. It is the braindead retarded idea of an american company that the biggest web/mail hoster in germany (80,000,000 inhabitants) can be hosted by a 4 CPU 256MB Pentium 'X' on an exchange server.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    6. Re:Open source has changed the world by grumpy_old_grandpa · · Score: 1

      Web sites can run on IIS and .NET, yes. However, the services we now take for granted seems unlikely to have been started, or would have been difficult and expensive to build. Google's, Amazon's and other hosting providers running millions of machines on Microsoft licenses. They would have been dead in the water. Android would probably not have been the same as a propitiatory OS. See Palm, Symbian, etc.

      Then there's all the hobby projects, maker communities, Github, Raspberry Pi, Arduino, and so on. It would have been a pretty sad place, or maybe a place of lots of arguments about copyrights without free software licenses. The music industry is a good example of what we could have ended up with.

      As for other licenses, sure, there's nothing holding anybody back writing them. Some have tried, and some of them also work. Reward based on lines of code has always seemed flawed, but if it works for your community, it's good enough.

    7. Re:Open source has changed the world by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2
      In 1987, most companies shared software for their hardware within a user group - and it was not much use to anyone not using the hardware.

      The Pascal compiler available on DECUS was definitely ported to other hardware, as was a bunch of the other stuff there - and I am sure some other programs began on Data General and moved to DEC.

      In fact, if you got software from your hardware supplier, you normally could get the source if you wanted, and probably wanted to if you had people capable of fixing the bugs - which were many.

      Closed Source started with Bill Gates - who wrote a famous letter about how programmers (meaning himself) should get paid. Before the PC, most people would not have bought hardware if they could not get the source. (Of course, with computers costing slightly more than a large house, "most people" would not have bought a computer). With cheaper computers came PT Barnum.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    8. Re:Open source has changed the world by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1
      Retard detected. Apache 2.0 was an enormous rewrite.

      And mostly works exactly the same.

      A closed source rewrite would have cost an arm and a leg to upgrade, had twice as many bugs, and rewriting your configuration files would have taken a year to get stable because of piss-poor documentation,

      Disclaimer: I am using Nginx.

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    9. Re:Open source has changed the world by lokedhs · · Score: 1
      I have a similar story. One of our major customers were hosting their entire email infrastructure on a single Sun server (it wasn't even a particularly powerful one, it was a 4 CPU machine if I remember correctly).

      They then decided to hire a new IT manager from Microsoft and the first thing he did was to decide to move it all to MS Exchange. They needed 50 machines to handle the same load. With all machined having a hot spare, they ended up with 100 machines to replace one.

    10. Re:Open source has changed the world by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      IIs and .NET were produced as (closed) alternatives to HTTP

      Wut? IIS was HTTP an HTTP server in 1996.

    11. Re:Open source has changed the world by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      Amazon's and other hosting providers running millions of machines on Microsoft licenses. They would have been dead in the water.

      Azure did fine at largely replicating the capabilities on Windows. Unix predates Windows and we still would have had commercial Unix OSes in a world without Open Source. Who knows, maybe NEXT would actually been released ;).

      But I'm not confident that without Github the world would be substantially different if we were using Perforce for instance. Much of what Github does is focused on enabling open source workflows. So in an alternate universe without open source, the advantages of a distributed repository are minimized.

    12. Re:Open source has changed the world by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      I remember porting the mod_perl web application I was working on from 1.2 to 2.0. That was during the boom. It took a couple hours, mostly turning on new features in the build system. It was a big improvement under the hood because of dynamic library support.

    13. Re:Open source has changed the world by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      The internet would have come along just fine over the last 20 years if it were running on IIS and .NET.

      It was. IIS and ActiveX had half the market share of Apache in 1997. But fast forward to 2007 and it was getting tight, 40% vs 50%, and in 2007 that was a HUGE amount of websites.

      Even now with the millions of websites out there it's at 20%, although ActiveX is hopefully rotting in a special kind of hell by now.

    14. Re:Open source has changed the world by johannesg · · Score: 1

      In 1997 I worked for a company that had a specific, dedicated machine where we could access "the internet". We had nothing at our desks - not internet, nor email. We were connected to the backbone using an ISDN line, and we didn't have a website. There was some talk at that time of making software to let our customers sell stuff across the internet. I left soon after, so I don't know if anything ever came of it.

      Every company on the internet? Certainly not at that time. Neither us, nor our ~1500 customers had a webpage.

    15. Re:Open source has changed the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Open source performs best on well established designs. Web hosting, databases, file systems etc are all well understood problems.

      You have no fucking clue. Have some day a look at (just one example among... what? thousands?) at the design of PostgreSQL and then come back.

      Back then, in the early 90, PostgreSQL (which wasn't even called that) had time travel, which slowly mutated to the WAL transaction mechanism these days. This has always been leading the pack. And the database-bound datatypes. Spatial index. Etc, etc.

      No, "open source" (I prefer to spell that "free software") many times does lead the pack, thanks to its connections to academia.

      Remember the famous Bill Gates saying (in face of the then-newish Linux kernel) "an OS kernel is a simple thing, but free software [I think the term open source wasn't coined back then] won't be capable to produce somethng as complex as a Web browser"? That was a couple of years before Mozilla thrashed bug-ridden and horribly insecure Internet Explorer.

      Don't make a fool of yourself. Bill can afford it, you can't.

    16. Re:Open source has changed the world by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      You checked every single one? On December 31st? Or do you just make shit up to sound like an ass?

    17. Re:Open source has changed the world by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Has IIS ever supported a non-IETF-defined protocol? I assume you are a bigoted shit-face, and you should be forced to support IIS for the next 300 years, only because you seem to have an irrational hatred for it.

    18. Re:Open source has changed the world by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      I've dealt with many MS people over the years. None of them would have made such a ridiculous claim. I'm guessing you make shit up because you have an irrational hatred for MS.

    19. Re:Open source has changed the world by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      MS doesn't have to pay itself license fees. (I have no idea what accounting games go on, but no real money leaves MS.) And Azure is relatively new in the game.

    20. Re:Open source has changed the world by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      My phrase "of any size" was meant to convey "sizable", not "of all sizes". Conversationally that would have been apparent, but in a short post I see the ambiguity.

      1500 customers is pretty tiny. There were probably lots of plumbers and electricians without web pages too.

      But if you had a retail business with multiple outlets, you were likely on the web - at least as an advertisement. Online retail was still in its early stages.

      We had a small financial services firm, just starting up in 1997. We took half that year to reach 10 employees. But we had way, way more than 1,500 customers.
      Our website went up pretty early on, even though it only had a sparse amount of information and a phone number and a web form that would end in a sales call. The graphics were done by a professional though. Not a professional web designer, but a professional graphic artist. And we knew enough to avoid the blink tag.

    21. Re:Open source has changed the world by johannesg · · Score: 1

      You checked every single one? On December 31st? Or do you just make shit up to sound like an ass?

      They didn't have internet. They didn't have email. They had phone lines and fax systems, and that's how they did their business. The internet was slow, cumbersome, expensive, unreliable, and offered no added value in their eyes.

      Also, I'm not quite sure how you went from me making a general statement about the state of the business landscape in 1997, a statement which I stand by BTW, to somehow implying that is some kind of logical statement that can be falsified if even a single customer had a single static webpage online at 23:59 on december 31st, but I'm just going to guess it is because you are an autistic asshat.

    22. Re:Open source has changed the world by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      Where closed source seems to shine though is through projects with leadership and vision.

      That can also be where it fails hardest. This is an interesting insider view of Windows Vista, but also covering other versions: https://blog.usejournal.com/wh...

      Basically the leadership and vision created multiple failed internal projects like WinFS. It was also very hard to predict where the market would go in the 3 year Windows release cycle, so they ended up doing a lot of work that went nowhere or was abandoned after one version.

      In the mean time Linux really dominated on the web server side, because Linux and Apache were able to quickly adapt and new features were added by people who wanted and used them, not by what salespeople guessed the market desired.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    23. Re:Open source has changed the world by johannesg · · Score: 1

      1500 customers is pretty tiny.

      Our 1500 customers were all businesses, with a combined turnover in the couple of billion euro range.

    24. Re:Open source has changed the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fake story bro! you were using NCSA in the IIS era?

    25. Re:Open source has changed the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Revise history much?:
      ==
      Open source performs best on well established designs. Web hosting, databases, file systems etc are all well understood problems. There isn't a lot of room for innovation in any of these areas so it's perfect for Open Source where tiny incremental changes and maintenance is all you really need. Has Apache substantially changed since 1997? I would argue no and that's fine. IIS hasn't really changed since 1997 either so why spend money on it?
      ==
      You are ignoring the fact that open source CREATED the idea of web hosting and was intimately involved in pushing forward the designs that you say are now well understood. Apache is in fact a counter example to your argument. In the area of databases, while less well known, the Ingress relational database was an early relational database where significant research took place. Now it certainly is true that some free software did start as reimplementation of existing designs (FSF's entire GNU project is essentially in this category). That doesn't mean that is the only way that open source (free software) can become successful.

    26. Re:Open source has changed the world by Jack9 · · Score: 1

      > By 1997 pretty much every company of any size had a presence on the internet.

      1997 was a very primitive time. In 1997, Amazon didn't even have UUIDs for books (beyond ISBNs) which was problematic for periodicals/resold/foreign inventory that didn't have them. By 2001, I had stopped encountering jobs to set up websites for existing companies in southern California. Maybe it would be more accurate to pin that assertion a few years beyond 1997.

      --

      Often wrong but never in doubt.
      I am Jack9.
      Everyone knows me.
    27. Re: Open source has changed the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you counterclaim is "I've dealt with people at MS, and NONE..."

      You know what they say, ancedotes are like assholes, everybody has one. Now go fuck off microdick shill.

    28. Re:Open source has changed the world by PPH · · Score: 1

      only because you seem to have an irrational hatred for it.

      Which really started when I administrated several *NIX systems and watched our Intranet web logs as the Code Red worm practically collapsed Boeing's IT infrastructure. Us UNIX admins would scrape the logs for IP addresses of infected machines probing around and forward them to our computing security folks. See schadenfreude.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    29. Re:Open source has changed the world by PPH · · Score: 1

      None of them

      We've told you a million times: Stop exaggerating!

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    30. Re:Open source has changed the world by PPH · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah? We ran an enterprise critical web app on two Sun 'pizza boxes' that we had obtained as surplus. Running Apache (started with NCSA, but that was about end of life by the time we came along). Our IT management had already drank the Microsoft Kool-Aide. We could have gotten $250,000 budget for a new Compaq NT server. Want to run Unix? Go dig through the scrap pile behind the building. The Windows folks actually tried porting our app to a high end NT server. And it collapsed miserably. The pizza boxes just ran on.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    31. Re:Open source has changed the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, "open source" (I prefer to spell that "free software") many times does lead the pack, thanks to its connections to academia.

      It's open source bits here and there like an open source Unix-like kernel or an open source web server or an open source database or an open source hypervisor, yes they have their own innovations in there (otherwise there would be no point) but what he's saying is that by and large the successful open source projects have been an open source version of some proprietary thing.

    32. Re:Open source has changed the world by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The issues Boeing had with Code Red were due to the fact that they did not practice applying patches to their systems and your firewall monitoring was crap. I used to work at Boeing and I helped introduce Windows NT into the production environment in time for use by the 777 launch in 1995. When I was working at my follow on job from Boeing when Code Red hit - we had a firewall/security contact who constantly followed CERT and other sources, including eEye Digital Security to mention who discovered it. When the issue was discovered the members of the NT team, in coordination with our Headquarters in Europe, scanned every PC in the company within 24 hours. We sent out Desktop people out to remove IIS from desktops as that was not allowed on individual machines. Oh, we had patched our servers for Code Red the month before, because we patched our systems once a month - before Patch Tuesday was a gleam in Microsoft eye.

      I did pull a joke on our firewall/security officer, I bought a bottle of Code Red (made by the same guys that made Mountain Dew(tm)) and put it on top of her SUN workstation. I called her and said "Your SUN has Code Red on it".... Ruined her lunch as she ran back to her cube to see a bottle of pop on top of her workstation... It took almost two years for her to finally see the humor in it and she still gave me the look of death..

      Ah --- good times messing with the UNIX team.

    33. Re:Open source has changed the world by Cytotoxic · · Score: 1

      Amazing how quickly that changed.

      I was involved in building B2B systems at that time as well. Dealing with older big institutions like banks was really difficult. They had an antiquated, decades old method for moving information around, and were very slow to adapt to the new tools available. Everyone had their own proprietary format for data, even if it was reasonably close to the industry standard. So custom parsers had to be written for every type of data at every institution. XML came to that industry maybe 4 or 5 years after it was being widely used elsewhere.

      We had similar experiences dealing with our business customers - we tried to provide lots of web-based services to enhance our business relationship - businesses like law firms, financial services firms, etc. They were all quite resistant to moving our relationship online - despite the benefits to them of increased speed, transparency, not having to wait to speak with a human, etc. They were used to phones, faxes and voicemail and that's how they wanted to keep it. That reticence increased costs for us and for them. But it did make sure that we both kept extra employees on the payroll to handle the extra work. So I suppose we did our part for keeping unemployment low :)

    34. Re:Open source has changed the world by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

      Jesus, it's amazing that guy even considered himself a programmer. He was an amazing businessman, in the way that any well funded sociopath in the right time period is...but was he ever really a "programmer"?

      I know there is a lot of contention over what he might have written, versus what he bought / stole.

      In the end though, the victors write the history books...or auto-biographies.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    35. Re:Open source has changed the world by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

      There's a reason all the major devs have moved from Perforce / SVN / etc to Git...and that's because they were all fucking awful.

      So yes, history would have been different. Git is still a bit bad, but nowhere as bad as all the failed SCS from the old days.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    36. Re:Open source has changed the world by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      ROFL,
      a friend of mine worked for said company and was in the talks about this issue. So I know this from first hand experience.
      Perhaps it was a different number of mails, but the tenor is the same.
      M$ bunch was talking about mails per month and the developers joked that they have more mails per hur than the exchange cluster could handle in a month. That was somewhere around 1995/1998 though ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  7. OSS Business. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The article strikes a hopeful note. "We're now comfortable with the idea that software can, and maybe should, be open source without the world ending. The actual opening of that source, however, is something to tackle in the next 20 years.

    Open Source till hasn't adequately solved the "how to make money" aspect 20 years later. Not to mention the dearth of people with the needed domain knowledge to keeping the OSS train going.

    1. Re:OSS Business. by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Redhat makes 2.9 billion in revenue with a market cap of 22.3 billion

    2. Re:OSS Business. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      That's actually pretty pathetic.

      In the 4th quarter of fiscal year 2017 alone, Microsoft's revenue was greater than that Red Hat market cap value you gave.

      Microsoft's profit in that one quarter alone was about 2 to 2.5 times the Red Hat revenue value you just gave.

      It would take Microsoft only a couple of weeks to make more than the Red Hat revenue value!

      Your comment reminds me of the delusional people who claim that Firefox is a "success", despite recent market share stats showing it only has about 5% of the browser market, while individual versions of Chrome like Chrome 62 and Chrome 63 each have 2 or more times as many users!

      What makes your point even worse is that Red Hat is perhaps the most successful of the open source focused companies, and it's "achievement", if we can even call it that, pales in comparison to so many of its competitors.

    3. Re:OSS Business. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Really? Which of these business models makes more sense to you:

      Option 1: Create a complex piece of software for free. End up with something that is trivially copied by unskilled labour. Charge people for copies.

      Option 2: Charge people to for writing the software (which requires skilled labour). Give away copies for free.

      The first one is the proprietary off-the-shelf model, the second is the open source model. And you think that the second one hasn't solved the 'how to make money' aspect?

      Most people who work on successful open source projects are paid to do so, because people need the software to do things that it doesn't already.

      Or are you really saying that open source software doesn't make it easy for middlemen to make money? In which case, I'd argue that that's a feature and not a bug.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  8. It certainly has by koavf · · Score: 2

    Look at several domains of computers: free software makes up the vast majority of operating systems for servers, mainframes, and smartphones. Users are interacting with these constantly without even knowing if they are using free software and in that sense, it is so meaningful due to how ubiquitous it is. I think the primary *failure* here is in the moral and legal dimension where users don't necessarily prioritize their rights. I would sincerely hope that users will prioritize free software because it is the right thing to do, in addition to being more secure or cheaper.

    1. Re:It certainly has by El+Cubano · · Score: 2

      I think the primary *failure* here is in the moral and legal dimension where users don't necessarily prioritize their rights. I would sincerely hope that users will prioritize free software because it is the right thing to do, in addition to being more secure or cheaper.

      What you describe as a failure is not necessarily a failure with regards to the fact that most software is still closed source.

      It is definitely a problem that users are wiling to give up their freedoms when it comes to software. The same is true in politics as well. Look at how people will vote in representatives that support higher taxes (giving up economic freedom), more regulation (giving up various different types of freedoms), corporatism (allowing commercial entities to trample their freedoms), the surveillance state (giving up their privacy), etc. If people so willingly give up those freedoms, is it any wonder that the freedoms embodied in software are not really seen to have any worth to the average person?

      As to the fact that most software remains closed source, that is an independent issue. The majority of software development is actually for business-specific applications. There are certainly instances where it makes sense to release such software as open source, but in most cases that is a tough sell. There can be a support burden associated with releasing software as open source. Many corporate lawyers are convinced that releasing software as open source exposes the company to liability and the executives listen to the lawyers.

      To me, the fact that the critical infrastructure of the Internet, along with the core technology of many very popular platforms is open source is truly amazing. It is better than the situation when Open Source first became a thing: everybody was using closed source tools and platforms to build Open Source. Now everybody uses Open Source tools and platforms to build closed source things.

    2. Re:It certainly has by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Look at several domains of computers: free software makes up the vast majority of operating systems for servers, mainframes, and smartphones.

      I think you'll find those are all made up of a combination of free and non-free software. A lot (probably the majority) of embedded systems use Linux too but they also interact with a whole bunch of non-free software and services to provide functionality to users.

    3. Re:It certainly has by koavf · · Score: 1

      Compared to 20 years ago, when it was essentially 100% proprietary software. So, yes, that is a huge improvement.

  9. Bruce Perens! esr! We need you! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Bruce Perens! esr! Come quickly! Set this fellow straight!

  10. Yes, and for the better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Open source is now synonymous with "software that respects the end user."

    The more you curse the GPL, the further we stray from this goal.

    1. Re: Yes, and for the better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you explain all of the major open source software that is widely hated by users, such as systemd, Firefox, Gnome 3, PulseAudio, and NetworkManager? Those projects have bad reputations for not listening to their users.

    2. Re: Yes, and for the better by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 1

      How do you explain all of the major open source software that is widely hated by users, such as systemd, Firefox, Gnome 3, PulseAudio, and NetworkManager? Those projects have bad reputations for not listening to their users.

      Duh.. simple:

      Many people have tried. But no matter what, that source code just wouldn't go away!

    3. Re: Yes, and for the better by Gavagai80 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There's never been anything about open source that suggests that developers should listen to the end users. Closed source is better at listening, because proprietary software developers are paid to listen to what you want. Open source developers, on the other hand, are there to do what they want and you can take it or leave it.

      Respecting the end user is a different matter, though -- it's a bare minimum of not violating rights. You don't have a right to be heard, but you have a right not be given adware/malware/backdoors. Just because the software respects the users doesn't mean the users have to respect it back.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    4. Re: Yes, and for the better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right, if only they could be more under user control, such as Windows.

      But joking aside, you make a good point. What would you propose as a solution? I mean, if you left the direction of the aforementioned software to the masses ("end user"), you'd have a kind of "death by committee" effect.

    5. Re: Yes, and for the better by evanh · · Score: 1

      Individual end users are not part of the equation.

      The opening poster and OSI and most others posting here are all referring to corporate customers as the contributing developers. Ie: Open Source as a means of collaboration. Which usually means GPL'd, or something similar, that enforces sharing of the common development burden.

    6. Re: Yes, and for the better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously, you never had to deal with the vultures from MS, Oracle or IBM in person

    7. Re: Yes, and for the better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is the funding model. Open Source projects benefit from one of two sources: Support, and funding by closed source companies**.

      The first source has little interest in UI or user friendliness. If anything, the more obtuse the software is, the more necessary it is to get support. The second source supports OSS for various reasons (to get license to distribute without source, to commodify software while selling hardware, etc. etc.), and most of it has no interest in normal users - their employees are rather proficient even when they aren't hired OSS devs.

      If we use a user-driven funding source, maybe something patereon like, perhaps users will have more input and OSS devs will have more motivation.

    8. Re: Yes, and for the better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, many more users are just fine with systemd, Firefox, Gnome 3, PulseAudio and NetworkManager.

    9. Re: Yes, and for the better by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Paid developers are better at listening.

  11. Well, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well, it certainly has changed mine. Cheers!

  12. Betteridge's law of headlines strikes again! by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 1
    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
  13. It has by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And not only for the ready-to-use software you can download. You can now come up with any idea and have immediate access to amazing tools and scaffolding to build with in order to realize it.

  14. How much of Android is free? by tepples · · Score: 2

    free software makes up the vast majority of operating systems for servers, mainframes, and smartphones

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but by "the vast majority of operating systems for [...] smartphones" I assume you're referring to devices that run Android. In that case, what's larger on an Android system image: AOSP (Linux and free components of Android userland) or GMS (Google Play Store/Services and other bundled Gapps)?

    I think the primary *failure* here is in the moral and legal dimension where users don't necessarily prioritize their rights.

    And the unfortunate result of this is that economies of scale associated with support make laptops made for Windows* cheaper than laptops made for GNU/Linux.

    * A device is "made for" an operating system if its manufacturer claims that reasonably complete drivers exist to make the device work with that OS.

    1. Re:How much of Android is free? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      In that case, what's larger on an Android system image: AOSP (Linux and free components of Android userland) or GMS (Google Play Store/Services and other bundled Gapps)?

      Depends if you include China. Since most Google stuff is blocked in China, the GMS size is zero. There are over a billion active mobile devices in China, 80% of them running Android.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:How much of Android is free? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting. Does that mean Chinese users are using free software replacements for the various Google stuff?

    3. Re:How much of Android is free? by tepples · · Score: 1

      Depends if you include China.

      And whether it's practical to define the relevant market to include China in turn depends on the added cost for app developers outside China to target users in China. This includes at least translation, distribution, and promotion. Otherwise, you have two disjoint markets: "Android outside China" and "Android in China".

  15. Android Anyone? by bjwest · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Seeing as how the most widely used mobile platform is built on Open Source and has had a major affect on the way the world communicates, I'd have to say yes, Open Source has dramatically changed the world even though it's an underlying aspect and most people don't even realise it.

    --

    --- Keep the choice with the user..
    1. Re:Android Anyone? by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Android is just an alternative to iOS and Windows Phone. There's nothing revolutionary about it.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    2. Re:Android Anyone? by cm5oom · · Score: 1

      Android has not had a major affect on the way the world communicates. The proprietary closed source apps running on android have had a major affect on the way the world communicates.

    3. Re:Android Anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Android brought computing to billions of people who would have otherwise not had the opportunity. That certainly qualifies as changing the world. Open source software is also the basis for some of the largest and most impactful companies on the planet (Amazon, Google, etc). There is no question open source changed the world.

    4. Re:Android Anyone? by gaiageek · · Score: 2

      For the majority of the poor people of the world, their first smartphone was, is, or will be an Android phone - a device that can allow a child in the most remote village in India to look up whatever topics strikes their curiosity, including topics that no one they have contact with knows anything about. In terms of functionality, Android may be just another smartphone OS, but in terms of economics and making that kind of power accessible to the poor, I'd argue that that is absolutely revolutionary.

    5. Re:Android Anyone? by bjwest · · Score: 1

      Android has not had a major affect on the way the world communicates. The proprietary closed source apps running on android have had a major affect on the way the world communicates.

      And without Android those apps would not exist for, as gaiageek stated above, a cheap, hand held computer for the poor of the world to reach out of their locality to access knowledge they would otherwise never be able to. Android exists because of the Open Source Linux kernel underneath, so again, I state that yes, Open Source has had a dramatic affect on the world even, though most don't know and, apparently, some refuse to admit it.

      --

      --- Keep the choice with the user..
    6. Re:Android Anyone? by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Both of the top-two mobile OSes are based on open source, though iOS less-so.

    7. Re:Android Anyone? by yobjob · · Score: 1

      Android has 90% marketshare for mobile devices. It isn't "revolutionary", it just "is".

    8. Re:Android Anyone? by DogDude · · Score: 1

      Android is just a knockoff. Somebody would've created a cheap alternative to the iPhone. Microsoft did. I'm sure other companies would have too. I don't consider a cheap knockoff revolutionary.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    9. Re:Android Anyone? by bjwest · · Score: 1

      Android is just a knockoff. Somebody would've created a cheap alternative to the iPhone. Microsoft did. I'm sure other companies would have too. I don't consider a cheap knockoff revolutionary.

      Doesn't really matter, does it? The question was "20 Years Later, Has Open Source Changed the World?". He didn't ask for speculation on whether or not if the Open Source application hadn't been created and an alternative filled the void disqualifying it from consideration. And a cheap knockoff that changed the world is still a world changing application. Do you really think Apple and/or Microsoft would be in as many places as cheaply as Android, had Android not been developed? Not to mention that there are several companies and subsidiaries making millions off of Android devices as their only source of income.

      Yeah, Android has pretty much had a major impact on the world in the past 20 years, there is no denying it. One can probably argue Linux, being the core of Android, has had just as much impact, if not more due to it's extensive use in servers across the Internet.

      --

      --- Keep the choice with the user..
  16. HUH.. I call BS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "thanks to the forward-looking efforts of Google, Facebook, Amazon, and other web giants that are demonstrating the value of open-sourcing code. "

    Yea, try seeing the source code for the things these companies make money from, you are more likely to see Trump Tax returns.

    The open source stuff is there to drive more people to its closed source money making activities, nothing more. Google pays Apple billions to keep it as the default search engine, why, because they make all that money plus profit back.

    I had a LOT of open source software on my CPM machines back in the late 70's early 80's, open source has possibly been around longer than closed source. Certainly lots of code has always been shared among universities way back in mainframe and punchcard days.

  17. I heard that ask many times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Open source has a effect, but mostly because of companies like Google who build on it. How much of Google influence can you accept and still call it open sourced?

  18. Without a doubt! by GerryGilmore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a certifiable Old Fart(TM), I remember all too well the bizarre days of the UNIX wars. AIX had a great admin tool called SMIT; SCO had a great channel for feeding the SMBs that developed the cool applications to other SMBs; Solaris ruled telecom and other HA realms; etc. There was NO "UNIX API" as MS had, hence their subsequent success. And no one shared a god-damned thing. Device drivers, admin tools - you name it. Each KNEW that their way would bring consolidation, failing to recognize the fundamental flaw built-in to that thought. Enter GNU/Linux. Yes, I put them together for a reason - neither could exist without the other. I made this point to the first Intel Linux Conference at the mothership and glad to see the prophecy fulfilled. The world is a much, much better place because of GNU/Linux!

    1. Re: Without a doubt! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No UNIX API?! If you truly were a greybeard then you'd know that POSIX goes back to 1988, and was based on work going back a few years before that. POSIX predates Linux and the Win32 API. The UNIX world had a standard API long before Linux or Windows did.

    2. Re: Without a doubt! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But very few companies completely followed the standard and paid for official conformance tests like they do now with Khronos and the various API's (OpenGL, Vulkan, OpenCL).

      As far as recruitment went, companies would look for someone with HP experience, or SUN experience, or AIX experience. They didn't look for programmers with "UNIX experience", since nearly all commercial applications were multihreaded and every vendor was doing their own thing with tweaking process/kernel optimization. There were obscure bugs where a process could end up in a zombie state because of an oddball combination of states. This would be different between every OS because the hardware was different. Some could only afford to develop for a couple of platforms because you had to pay extra for a compiler licence, more for manuals, development libraries, X-Windows/Motif, a fee for each CPU activated, number of users, number of licenses.

      Microsoft blew all that away by just making Windows NT the "standard" and shouting that "Windows NT was the future, UNIX is legacy". Vendors buckled and dumped their OS and adopted Windows NT (HP, SGI). Sun held out, and IBM went Linux.

    3. Re: Without a doubt! by GerryGilmore · · Score: 1

      Bullshit! Did POSIX address Universal Printer Drivers? Display Drivers? 100% Organic, Dolphin-Free Bullshit!

    4. Re:Without a doubt! by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      >The world is a much, much better place because of GNU/Linux!

      It's not better. World is never better overall. Technological progress is sideways.

      But the date definitely should be 1992, not 1997

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    5. Re: Without a doubt! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      unfortunatly POSIX didn't solve any of the problems as it was applicable to only a small part of the specific unix implementation you were using.

  19. It's changed software developement massively by chromaexcursion · · Score: 1

    Boost, openSSL, GDAL, POCO, the list goes on
    tools of the trade
    know them, use them, or your carrier is toast.

    1. Re:It's changed software developement massively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Boost consists almost entirely of C++ header files, so it pretty much has to be open source in at least the restricted sense of letting users read it, in order to have had any acceptance at all. IIRC even Microsoft's infamous MFC (Microsoft Foundation Classes) was released as source-available by the mid-90s, just to provide self-support for their customers. As was ATL (Active Template Library), which again was almost entirely header files.

  20. Not just Yes, Hell Yes by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    I've been programming professionally now for over three decades...

    A while ago, if you were working on projects, and you wanted to do something complex - you were buying an external library to make that happen. UI forms, even data storage collections!

    Nowadays even if you are working on a closed system, you are using a LOT of open parts and libraries to help make things happen. Most people are using Apache instead of proprietary web servers. Most people are using a multitude of open source libraries that means when you switch jobs your expertise is no longer fully invalidated, because you can use some of the same libraries as you move around. Many people are browsing using WebKit, way more than IE...

    Sure there are a lot of closed systems around still but they operate in a world that is dominated now by more open protocols, open source tools, and libraries and so on. No longer is it considered risky to go with open source when LAMP now is considered the conservative choice.

    Even though software development is still a pain for all sorts of reasons, it's still never been better and easier than it is now and you can build things today that just were not possible to pull off 20 years ago. Open source will continue to advance as the idea has proven to be gene4rally solid and reliable, and will only continue to spread further... eventually we may reach a plateau beyond which the remaining software will generally be closed for a variety of reasons, but I don't think we are there yet.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Not just Yes, Hell Yes by MangoCats · · Score: 1

      Same here. Our projects still have closed bits, but so much more of the infrastructure is open compared to 20 years ago. I can get stuff done faster, and more reliably with "unsupported" open libraries as compared to the "supported" closed equivalents, and when I've had the opportunity to compare the two head to head, the closed ones tend to have more, bigger bugs that take longer to get fixed - precisely because they're closed. We had a bug in an open library, made a patch for it ourselves in a couple of days, and submitted it back to the project.. they chose not to adopt our patch because the whole section of the library was up for replacement in a year or two, they were focusing development on the new architecture - but: we still were able to make our own patch and use it right away. In a closed environment you don't get the opportunity to even try that, and have much less chance of getting the closed developers' time and attention.

    2. Re:Not just Yes, Hell Yes by swillden · · Score: 1

      I've been programming professionally now for over three decades...

      Same here.

      And these days, I work on the world's most widely-used operating system -- and it's open source, at least in the form that it's delivered to companies that make devices that run it. That's a HUGE change from 20 years ago, when no OS with non-trivial market share was open source.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    3. Re:Not just Yes, Hell Yes by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Ditto. Open source has changed a lot.

      Back in the old days, if you wanted to "write code" you either were stuck with the BASIC your PC came with, or shelled out hundreds of dollars for a compiler, assembler, and linker toolset. These days, every platform has freely available tools. Granted, some tools require certain platforms, but for the most part it only costs a small download. This is in no part to the easily available nature of competent tools like GCC and the like, ported to every platform around. Granted these days, LLVM has helped modernize and improve the tools a lot.

      This extends to a lot of hardware too - microcontroller tools used to be specialized things - you'd think selling a million devices the vendor would give you the compilers and assemblers and tools, but no, you often paid for those.

      Ditto for embedded hardware - Linux on embedded systems is my specialty and it was what I was hired for, back when everything was immature. But it was competent and a very nice alternative to commercial operating systems which has poor documentation and questionable behavior. You could spend weeks debugging why something was, because once it hit the vendor code, there was no more symbols, no more source code, just disassembly. When Microsoft did their "shared source" thing, it was crap, but it gave away enough source code that now debugging was tons easier. And this was done only because open source was making life easier for developers.

      Open source as a user philosophy though, hasn't really worked out - but that's because open source and free software assume a world where every user is a developer. This is a narrow minded view - thinking the toys they worked on wouldn't ever have mass appeal. Computers, it turns out, are so versatile that the person using them most often than not is not a developer, doesn't care to touch code, but are really grateful for what has happened to make computers so accessible, so reachable, and everywhere. The computer has embedded itself into society so much, it's hard to imagine how things were before it.

      Even then, some effects are still positive - it was Mozilla/Firefox that broke the world of its IE6 attachment and moved us from a monoculture of a single browser into the rich web we have today that works on full standards, where you can code a website and have it work on many browsers with many different engines (not just WebKit and its derivatives).

      Do I want to go back to the world of old? Hell no, open source has made today's world much better. It's not perfect, and there are plenty of issues, but I'd say we are better off with open source than without. I certainly don't want to go back to the days of paying $500 for a C compiler. Or a world without Arduinos and Raspberry Pis. And even without web technologies like asm.js/WebAssembly that let us do interesting things in web browsers (like DOSBox).

      And let's not forget the open source applications that are so powerful, they can replace commercial offerings. Audacity is a competent audio editor. Wireshark. Vim and Emacs.

    4. Re:Not just Yes, Hell Yes by ShoulderOfOrion · · Score: 1

      This a thousand times. I started writing code when I got my first TRS-80 in high school (yes I'm old). I was a Microsoft fan until the mid '90s, when they started charging for MSDN subscriptions. That was the final straw. I dumped Windows for Linux and NetBIOS for TCP/IP and never looked back. Most of the folks on this thread simply don't get it--Open Source is not about the end-user, it's all about the *developer* and his or her ability to get work done. Particularly when that work is creating new ways of doing things, new ideas, new technologies, and new approaches.

      If Microsoft won the networking wars and there was no open IETF would the Internet we know today exist? Not a chance. Likewise, if an MSDN subscription costing thousands of dollars a year was the only way to develop and test an internationalized application, most developers today would be nothing but code monkeys working for a handful of large corporations working on a relative handful of applications. The rate of innovation would have been a tiny fraction of what it is today. Open source is what made the LAMP stack and the Internet possible. It is what made huge server farms possible. It is what made Android possible. It is what made the Rasberry Pi possible. And it is what will make the new technologies of tomorrow possible. Open source has always been about freeing the developer, not the end user.

  21. Google Play Services is not the only fruit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are Android eco systems without all that Google spyware crap on them. Sadly sometimes it the Amazon spyware bundle or the Microsoft spyware bundle, but others do exist.

    IMHO, Android is more bound to Samsung than it is to Google. Think of DEX, the Android windowing system, think of the stylus set, the multi-window features.... all of these were driven by Samsung not Google.

    There's also Google's attack on Android that's leaves it vulnerable to a fork by more professional bodies. That fork would lose the Google crap in the process leaving a cleaner, more professional Android without Google's fuckwit limits in it.

    e.g. the awful garbage handler that will forcibly-crash an app if it uses more than 51200 blocks that are weak referenced. The garbage handler isn't sure if these are leaks or blocks in use, so it kills the app as punishment for using so many global references... freeing up perhaps 5Mb. The app has no real problem, the hardware has no real problem running the app, it's the garbage collector that decides to make something it doesn't like into a critical failure.
    The app is killed, any files being written are left corrupted, it doesn't even raise a runtime error and call the uncaught exception handler so the app can exit gracefully, it just force kills it.

    OK, so you're trying to use Android to control a factory cooling system, and it does this and the factory explodes.
    Or your app is busy writing that major order from the customer who is on a just-in-time system, the garbage collector kills it, and the order isn't fulfilled and the customer's factory grinds to a halt.
    Or you're trying to use Android for an XRay machine control system, the garbage collector throws its fit, and a person gets zapped with a lethal dose of Xrays.
    Or you're making a self driving car running on Android, garbage collector does its incompetent fuckwittery, the car crashes into a group of nearby children.

    You can see how choices like this force Android to be used only for little mini-apps, which is why it never succeeded for corporate bespoke apps.
    You see this kind of attitude all through Google's code. I blame Pichai, I think he's crippling Android at the high end to make space for his Chrome/Android mashup, and in the process, it means that the high end of Android is really led by Samsung and others, and they would be better off without Google and it's idiot choices.

    Back to topic, so that means that part of Android that would survive a split from Google is the open source part, and the part that would not survive a split from Google, is the gps sniffing, wifi sniffing, spyware, ad-serving part. That closed source part that Google 'sells'. Which is the part you also don't want in corporate environments anyway.

    1. Re: Google Play Services is not the only fruit by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      The number and gravity of things you're planning on using android to run scares the shit out of me. I really really hope that you never get put in a position to make such choices ...

  22. I suppose it depends upon your definition of open by Cytotoxic · · Score: 0

    Open source has unquestionably changed the world. It is silly to even pretend otherwise. Open source software has been fundamental to many tectonic shifts in our world, and to a myriad of countless lesser improvements.

    But did it fulfill it's promise, I suppose is the real question being asked. If you are a doctrinaire Stallman accolyte, you probably are tragically disappointed that all information isn't free, and that any closed source code exists anywhere. You probably view the existence of cell phones with a mixture of open and closed source software as an abomination. But beyond the die-hard GLPv3 adherents, opensource is everywhere and is doing everything. It has been the most successful development in the history of computing.

  23. Re: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The negative aspect of open source being accepted in business is that it makes slave labor more acceptable as a business practice. Most open source development goes unpaid. While this development achieves better systems, do the businesses really deserve the systems their incompetence is unable to achieve? Slave labor continues to exist for phones, clothes, and other goods, so it may be a natural existence for software, which lacks protection as intellectual property when compared to hardware.

  24. Yes and no by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

    Before quick, always-on Internet connections were available most software had to live locally, so even though it was closed source you had the entire blob. Today, more and more of the client functionality is going open source - but the essential bits have all gone online as web applications, SaaS, multiplayer/matchmaking services and so on. Google is giving away Android and Chromium (with proprietary codecs = Chrome) so you'll use Google's services. Microsoft is open sourcing things so you'll use Azure. Amazon is open sourcing things so you'll use AWS and so on. Companies that were just giving it away without some sort of plan to monetize it like Sun went under.

    And in this competition with "free" services, open source is struggling in many areas. Like for example LibreOffice vs Google Docs, Google got like 3 million paying G Suite businesses, 70 million educational users and lord knows how many others, I couldn't find a statistic. They're taking on the battle of Office/Exchange open source has worked on for decades and not really gotten anywhere. Services like Alexa and Siri you couldn't really do as a local application anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if the Microsoft market falls and the desktop goes "open source" like Android. But it's not really like how RMS envisioned it...

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    1. Re:Yes and no by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      I don't see any reason Alexa and Siri couldn't be client side and open source.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    2. Re:Yes and no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Great point! Open source dominates the Internet, but our computing experience is less open than ever.

  25. esr deserves more credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I think that Eric S Raymond deserves most of the credit for open source software being what it is today. While people like rms and Linux and Steve Klabnik and Miguel and Bruce Perens and Lennart made important technical contributions, it's Eric who has been the glue that binds the open source community together and give it strength. We can ignore individual open source projects and the open source community still stands strong and proud. But if we take away the sturdy communal foundation that Eric provides, then the entire movement would disintegrate. Open source software really is only possible because of how Eric brings together creators, users and advocacy. I don't think I'm exaggerating when I say that Eric is the most important member of the open source elite. [And before anyone makes a false accusation about me being Eric, I'm sad to admit that I am not him. I do often wish I was somebody as important and influential as he is, though!]

    1. Re: esr deserves more credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Lennart deserves no credit.

    2. Re: esr deserves more credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Lennart deserves a kick to the groin.

    3. Re: esr deserves more credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whenever RMS name comes up, people attack him personally, but I never see anyone try to refute his arguments. Typical leftist commie snowflake assholes.

    4. Re: esr deserves more credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody really understands what he's trying to promote.

      Look at the GPLv2. Despite supposedly promoting "freedom", it's actually a rather lengthy document full of legalese and freedom-removing restrictions.

      The GPLv3 is even worse!

      Meanwhile, licenses like the BSD and MIT licenses grant far more freedom, and they're only a handful of easily comprehensible sentences in length.

      Then there's the GNU software. It's supposed to be "better" than the alternatives, but often isn't.

      GNU Bash is best known for the serious Shellshock bug that existed in at least 25 years worth of GNU Bash releases.

      GCC has long been known for compiling very slowly, and even after decades of effort it still typically generates slower binaries than most commercial compilers. It wasn't until LLVM and Clang started kicking the hell out of it that GCC started to see some basic improvements.

      We can't forget about GNU Hurd. Well, we can forget about it in one way: we can forget about ever actually using it. It pretty much doesn't even exist in any meaningful form, even after decades of work on it.

      There's really not much to "argue" about. Basically, it's extremely clear that there are many other open source licenses that offer far more freedom than the GPL family of licenses. It's also very clear that the GNU software isn't even very good, and in some cases it's quite broken and unpleasant to use.

      This is why we're seeing such a surge of interest in stuff like the BSD and MIT licenses, LLVM/Clang, and the various *BSD operating systems. People are tired of the contradiction and nonsense coming from the GNU camp. Users want software that works, rather than vague and self-defeating philosophical babble.

    5. Re: esr deserves more credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The vast majority of people do not care about software freedom, in fact more people than ever are eschewing restrictive open source licenses in favour of permissive ones because it is about altruism rather than saying "I'm not going to help people unless they subscribe to my ideology". Free software (through permissive licensing) and non-free software can co-exist and share between them. The problem is that some people find it difficult to understand that somebody might not want to just give away the work they spent so long researching and developing and that is fine.

    6. Re: esr deserves more credit by BlackHawk-666 · · Score: 1

      This is why I licence my code as BSD. I want people / companies / E-Corp / whatever to be able to take it and make it their own. Mix it up, re-work it, and not worry that I am going to bitch-slap them 10 years later, when they have a profitable product, and demand money from them.

      My work is pretty specific, it's for a single game engine, and a pretty focused type of game. What I want is for more people to come together, benefit from my work, re-mix it, share it, and then perhaps...maybe...some of that to bounce back to me and help me make my stuff more awesome.

      I don't give a fuck how rich you get using my work, I only hope that I can make a decent living off it one day.

      Creating a viable eco-system of people who use the same code as I do, increases the chances I don't have to write a particular piece of code, and we *all* benefit.

      --
      All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain.
    7. Re: esr deserves more credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that is altruism, that is helping other people regardless of whether you subscribe to eachother's ideology or not. This religious GPL view that "I am only going to co-operate with people who share my ideology" is childish, nonsense and even the Linux kernel makes it explicit in its license preamble that you can use the kernel with non-free works (i.e. software that makes syscalls into the kernel is explicitly not considered to be a derived work) because that kind of co-operation is beneficial because if it were pure GPLv2 it would be too restrictive and prevent co-operation between people. Torvalds' opposition to the GPLv3 is of a similar nature, having the Linux kernel as GPLv3 would restrict the ability of people to co-operate just because they don't share the same views on software freedom.

  26. Premise invalid: "a Microsoft". HAH. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Premise invalid: "a Microsoft". HAH.

  27. Closed source respects the user? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No. Microsoft Windows being the classic example.

    That and enterprise likes to keep things closed because it likes to believe that they are each special and no one but themselves should see or can understand their business practice/rules.

  28. Higher up the stack? by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

    Itâ(TM)s also true that the population of developers with interest and aptitude in a given piece of software will shrink the higher up the stack you go.

    Really? More people have aptitude for writing bare-metal firmware than some cloud application? I doubt it, not so much due to "difficulty", but due to the fact that there are far more jobs at lofty levels of abstraction where you can do useful work than there are down in the kernel/metal.

  29. public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Public domain was better because you didn't need to be an armchair lawyer to understand the license you were using.

    I have published software under the GPL in the past, but these days, I don't even bother with licenses anymore. I just give away the source code and anyone can do whatever they want with it.

    There are too many open source licenses to choose from, and it causes license fatigue. I lost the ability to care about open source long ago.

    1. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No nooooooo now I want to have sex with all of my girlfriends! How could you do this to me?

    2. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      The GPL is very simple. You are free to use, modify and sell GPL software but you must provide source code, including your modifications, to anyone you distribute or sell it to. If you remember that, you won't have any problems.

    3. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Thank you, I don't need your explanation. I already published software under the GPL. Specifically I chose GPLv2 and I read the entire document from beginning to end.

      I just don't care. I don't care what anyone does with my software because their actions don't affect me. If someone takes my code and makes changes and refuses to give me the changes, they haven't deprived me of my code which I can still use. I can choose not to use their derived software as if it never existed. I just don't care.

    4. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Thank you, I don't need your explanation. I already published software under the GPL. Specifically I chose GPLv2 and I read the entire document from beginning to end.

      I just don't care. I don't care what anyone does with my software because their actions don't affect me. If someone takes my code and makes changes and refuses to give me the changes, they haven't deprived me of my code which I can still use. I can choose not to use their derived software as if it never existed. I just don't care.

      and this is why copy-center or BSD style license are the right choice.

    5. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You also claimed you had to be an "armchair lawyer" to understand it.

    6. Re:public domain by Phillip2 · · Score: 1

      Release to the public domain still needs a licence, to say that this is what you are doing. "Giving away the source code" by sticking it on the web means it is closed. So, you cannot get away without a licence.

      Even if you do have a licence saying "this is public domain", you still have an issue which is public domain has quite different meanings in different countries.

    7. Re:public domain by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Try determining, in the legal sense, what constitutes a derived work. How simple is the GPL again?

    8. Re:public domain by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Am I free to compile, without modification, a copy of the code that I receive and give it to a less-technical friend? (GPLv2: Only if I give him either a copy of the source code or a written offer good for 3 [I think] years to provide him with the source code on demand. GPLv3: yes, if I also give him a link to where he can download the source).

      Am I free to link against it in a proprietary program and call a single function that consumes a string and produces a string as output? (No).

      Am I free to write an BSD-licensed wrapper around the library that runs in a separate process and receives a string from stdin and writes the result to stdout, publish that, and use it from my program? (Not 100% sure, but the FSF lawyers believe that the answer is yes)

      Am I free to create some well-defined interfaces, ship a proprietary program that uses them and can load another module, wrap the GPL'd library in some BSDL code that exposes these interfaces, and have my program load it at run time (Yes, probably, though not tested in court - lots of lawyers agree that this one is fine though).

      Am I free to ship a proprietary program that can optionally load a GPL'd library and use its functionality directly, as long as I don't distribute the GPL'd code? (Maybe, depending on the copyright status of the interfaces that I use, which Oracle vs Google has now made a lot more murky. Probably 50:50 which way a court would go on this one.)

      Yup, the GPL is very simple.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:public domain by yobjob · · Score: 1

      You'll wish there was a license when someone takes your work then turns around, claims ownership and sues you.

    10. Re:public domain by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Derivative is actually a legal concept that was created in law which is the reason it is so difficult to clearly define. Try to get through a single day of your life without violating an interpretation of some law. You'll never manage it.

      In practice, people don't sue over good faith efforts to respect the spirit of their licensing terms and everyone doesn't get arrested for every technical violation of the law they commit each day. This is really something that is only a problem for people trying to find loopholes and technicalities to circumvent the share-alike nature of the license.

    11. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words, "Is it possible to break the spirit of the law -- to share what I was given -- without breaking the letter of the law?" The answer to that will always be, "Maybe, but it's complicated."

    12. Re:public domain by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "Am I free to compile, without modification, a copy of the code that I receive and give it to a less-technical friend? (GPLv2: Only if I give him either a copy of the source code or a written offer good for 3 [I think] years to provide him with the source code on demand. GPLv3: yes, if I also give him a link to where he can download the source)."

      Until the first instance of a friend snitching to an author AND the author caring and suing the gifter the answer is a solid yes. Technically the terms require it, technically you probably broke 15 laws before breakfast especially if you assume officers won't give the benefit of the doubt in cases where they have discretion. Either way, given that you have access to the source how difficult is it to toss it in?

      Your other cases are all about trying to find loophole conditions under which you can steal the code without sharing code back under the same terms. Yes, if you start trying to find ways to dodge sharing back code you'll start running into the legal clauses designed to make this difficult since it is the entire point of the license.

    13. Re:public domain by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Until the first instance of a friend snitching to an author AND the author caring and suing the gifter the answer is a solid yes. Technically the terms require it, technically you probably broke 15 laws before breakfast especially if you assume officers won't give the benefit of the doubt in cases where they have discretion. Either way, given that you have access to the source how difficult is it to toss it in?

      The real case for this was a bit more complex. It wasn't a friend compiling it, it was a Linux distribution. Compile the code and ship packages. Definitely useful, yes? Except that according to the GPL, the recipient of the code is allowed to demand the source code and the distribution in question hadn't kept a copy and upstream had gone away. They had to scrabble to find a copy from a mirror, or face legal action. As a result, distributions that provide binary packages now also mirror the source code and keep it around for a long time. That adds cost to everyone that ships binary packages of GPL'd code. GPLv3 explicitly addressed this because it was a real concern that was costing money.

      Your other cases are all about trying to find loophole conditions under which you can steal the code without sharing code back under the same terms. Yes, if you start trying to find ways to dodge sharing back code you'll start running into the legal clauses designed to make this difficult since it is the entire point of the license.

      Why is it fine for me to ship a binary-only program that's tightly coupled to a GPL'd library via a pipe, but not when it's via linkage? The GNU GPL FAQ specifically makes this distinction, but it's an entirely arbitrary one based on a specific execution model.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    14. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real case for this was a bit more complex. It wasn't a friend compiling it, it was a Linux distribution. Compile the code and ship packages. Definitely useful, yes? Except that according to the GPL, the recipient of the code is allowed to demand the source code and the distribution in question hadn't kept a copy and upstream had gone away. They had to scrabble to find a copy from a mirror, or face legal action. As a result, distributions that provide binary packages now also mirror the source code and keep it around for a long time. That adds cost to everyone that ships binary packages of GPL'd code. GPLv3 explicitly addressed this because it was a real concern that was costing money.

      That's the GPL working as designed. If they're distributing binaries for which there is no source available (or the only copy of the source is some place where nobody knows where to find it), then it's not free software. Regardless of whether or not the distributor is to blame for the lack of source, it's not free software.

      Thus, the distributor has a responsibility to ensure availability of the corresponding source. GPLv3 makes it easier to comply, but it doesn't change the nature of that responsibility.

      Why is it fine for me to ship a binary-only program that's tightly coupled to a GPL'd library via a pipe, but not when it's via linkage? The GNU GPL FAQ specifically makes this distinction, but it's an entirely arbitrary one based on a specific execution model.

      "Fine" in the sense of respecting users' freedom? It's not.

      "Fine" in the sense of "can you get away with it legally"? Hard to say. I would, however, point out that the GPL FAQ is not a legal document.

    15. Re:public domain by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Because a binary is really nothing but a less human readable copy of the code and linking is really no different than copy and pasting the original code into your code. When you distribute that binary (aka copy of the code) you have the same obligation you'd have if you shipped code with gpl code copy and pasted into it.

      That said, you have to draw the line somewhere. You generally link code as a coder and not as end-user function (dynamic linking is a grey aside) but pipelining is common daily if not sub-hourly end usage scenario especially in the *nix environment and among the utilities this license was originally designed for. The most common scenario for using pipes in code is in house scripts and those don't involve distribution (an employee of company y hasn't "distributed" if the distribution is internal to other employees of the same organization).

      Especially with the LGPL which exists specifically for authors who are writing a library with the intention of programmers being the end-users this is almost entirely something being run into by someone trying to avoid sharing back. GPL software isn't free as in beer, regardless of what price tag you might have paid for distribution or support the contributors of GPL software DO want something in return, they want the bug fixes, new features, and expansions built on the functionality they built. If you are keeping those things to yourself so be it but if ANYONE else is getting any of those things, they get the benefit of those changes so that they too can expand on them getting the same benefits you did and the most popular will make their way back into the ecosystem eventually becoming available to the original author. The GPL is extremely simple, if you save time and money by using someone elses GPL'd work output, you must share along the result. If it makes sense, the courteous thing is to share back the result as well.

      Don't be that guy who makes his job secure by making sure nobody else can figure out your implementation, be that guy whose job is secure because he has produced amazing things and will continue to do so. Everyone is always trying to get rid of the former and nobody wants to see the later go in the GPL world even his competitors don't want to see the later go.

    16. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and this is why copy-center or BSD style license are the right choice.

      Why do you want to force users of your code to give credit to you? That's limiting their freedom!!!1!!1

    17. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If I can't prove that I wrote the code first then whether or not there is a license is irrelevant.

    18. Re:public domain by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      That's the GPL working as designed

      If it's the GPL working as intended, then why did the authors of the GPL explicitly change this in version 3?

      "Fine" in the sense of "can you get away with it legally"? Hard to say. I would, however, point out that the GPL FAQ is not a legal document.

      Not a legal document, but it clarifies the intent of the GPL, which is likely to have some weight in court when attempting to interpret the terms. Again, if the authors of the GPL believe that this is fine, then why is it not?

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    19. Re:public domain by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In your first example, GPLv2 allows you to pass along a written offer you have. You don't have to maintain anything.

      Your remaining examples seem to be cases of "I want to use someone else's code in defiance of how they wanted it used. What shenanigans can I do to make it technically legal?". If you use other people's code as they apparently wanted you to use it, you don't have that problem.

      The GPL is quite clear to people who go by the spirit.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    20. Re:public domain by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Even if you can prove it, the costs for defending this kind of vexatious claim are high.

      It's a legal system, not a justice system - and the law favours those with the deepest pockets.

    21. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if you can prove it, the costs for defending this kind of vexatious claim are high.

      Right, so whether I add a license to it or not is irrelevant. Adding a license doesn't suddenly prove that I wrote the code first.

    22. Re: public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stick with GPL2 or 3, your preference. Not that hard.

    23. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Am I free to write an BSD-licensed wrapper around the [GPL] library

      No, of course not. At least you can't distribute the result.

      > that runs in a separate process and receives a string from stdin and writes the result to stdout, publish that, and use it from my program?

      Depends. Do you distribute the wrapper?

      If not, sure.

      If you distribute the wrapper, too, then is the wrapper a derived work in the sense of copyright law and/or case law in your jurisdiction? (pretty sure it is)

      >Am I free to create some well-defined interfaces, ship a proprietary program that uses them and can load another module, wrap the GPL'd library in some BSDL code that exposes these interfaces, and have my program load it at run time

      If you don't distribute the GPL'd library or a derived work, the GPL doesn't apply.

      Whether you wrap the GPL'd library in some BSDL code or not makes no difference since you don't distribute the result. If you did, it would be infringing, even without your proprietary program.

      >Am I free to ship a proprietary program that can optionally load a GPL'd library and use its functionality directly, as long as I don't distribute the GPL'd code?

      Yes, if both don't constitute a derived work together. Who's to say it's this specific library that will be loaded? It's out of your hands.

    24. Re:public domain by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Yup, the GPL is very simple.

      It is very simple. If you intend to share your own code under GPL, feel free to use somone else's GPL'd code in your project.

      If not, write all your own code or license some libraries and frameworks from someone else.

  30. My fundamental concern is Bad AI by scorp1us · · Score: 1

    So software changed the world yay! But AI is just getting started. I am already alarmed, not of a potential "singularity", but by the effects of AI gone wrong. I'm not even talking SkyNet or even self-driving cars gone awry. I'm talking about the very silent bias (no pun intended) from these AI systems - of which there is no legal or professional quality standard. Companies deploying bad models that shape our future, either because they are used in government and carry the force of law, or they are used by companies to decide things for us and limit our future because we, for whatever reason are an under-fit outlier.

    In other AI news, the AI revolution continues into the arts, here, AI is creating [passible] music, images, scripts, etc. While there are a growing list of impressive feats, it concerns me that it will replace the human element of art with a very artificial one.

    I am calling for legislation for any AI that is consumer facing to me labeled as a product of AI, and that customers who are subject to the output of the AI to be able to inspect the input vector which represents them, and the output of the AI on that input vector. We cannot have black-box AI systems rule our lives. We need our input vector to ensure the data doing in is correct, and we need the output to ensure we were not subject to bad data practices like under-fitting, over-fitting, mini-batch normalization. It is implied that there is a way to correct errors as well.

    --
    Slashdot's rate-of-post filter: Preventing you from posting too many great ideas at once.
  31. That's asking too much of Open Source Software by mykepredko · · Score: 1

    It's changed the way applications are written. It has put pressure on companies like Microsoft, Apple, Google to provide development tools and libraries free of charge.

    But thinking Open Source Software will/would/has changed the world?

    I don't think that's reasonable.

    1. Re:That's asking too much of Open Source Software by lenski · · Score: 2

      The ubiquity of the Raspberry Pi, Arduino, Linux on PCs (modern or ancient), IOT devices, the top 500 supercomputers, routers, etc.: All made possible by open source software.

      Schools in nations with emerging economies, research labs, DIY home makers all over the world build little (or big) process control and measurement boxes: These decisions are simplified by the presence of the invaluable library of open source software.

      The company I work for has 8 Odroids, 6 Raspberry Pis, about a dozen workstations, and our main product line runs on embedded boards running Linux. All of these resources are critical to our success, and the availability of system that run those machines without struggling with license-counting has left an indelible mark on our organization. Even the industrial CNC milling machines are controlled by Linux systems.

      I am a certified grey-beard who has developed in and watched this industry since graduating in 1977 who is simply amazed by the easy availability of today's tools. Moore's law has helped on the hardware side (no more 500 grand for a 1 Mbyte core-memory mainframe with 90 Mbytes disk...), but in my opinion the real enabler for much of this industry has been the software toolkit. I have seen a transition from Fortran-II on OS-8 (low end) or Fortran-IV and COBOL on System/370 (high end) to systems running SciPy, Postgres, Apache, Octave, R, openssl, etc. etc., all available for download.

      Open source systems have delivered power in excess of anything I ever imagined.

    2. Re:That's asking too much of Open Source Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has changed the world, the whole "cloud computing" thing wouldn't really be feasible with closed-source software(at least as it existed in 1997). Same for all these startups, there is no way they could do what they have done on such a small budget if the software they used both for development and deployment, and if they are successful, scaling, of their product if they had to be paying a per-CPU fee to Microsoft or Oracle etc. The current tech boom is based off of open source, case closed.

    3. Re:That's asking too much of Open Source Software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesus Christ. You know Microsoft Azure runs Windows in the cloud, right? Have you heard of Azure? Do you even know what cloud computing even is?

    4. Re:That's asking too much of Open Source Software by ShoulderOfOrion · · Score: 1

      Did Microsoft invent cloud computing? No. Would Microsoft have invented cloud computing? No. Microsoft is increasingly playing catch-up to open source innovation, and quite frankly, is falling further behind with each technology shift. Microsoft realizes this too, which is why you see more and more Microsoft products going open source. It's better for Microsoft if the next innovation is created by a developer re-imagining and building off a Microsoft open source tool than from a competitor's.

  32. Ignorance and avarice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The real barrier has been ignorance on the part of the intellectually lazy who still don't get the difference between open source and the poorly written "freeware" of the 90's. That, and the avarice of those who do know the difference but who believe that they can only hold onto market share by keeping as much software and hardware as proprietary and closed as possible. While a lot of people, including the leaders of many tech firms, see free software as unleashing creators to create and users to use their products, there are whole industries whose supply chains stubbornly resist any opening of their ecosystems (like the mobile hardware market that has consistently rejected efforts to deploy open source operating systems like Ubuntu or FirefoxOS). That's shortsighted, but it wouldn't be the first time the world suffered technological stagnation due to the selfishness of dominant players.

    1. Re:Ignorance and avarice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The real barrier has been ignorance on the part of the intellectually lazy who still don't get the difference between open source and the poorly written "freeware" of the 90's.

      You mean ignorant fools like you?

      The difference between freeware and open source is freeware authors jealously guarded their source code and it was precisely because their source was not available that they had any incentive to write decent software for their users. These days open source coders throw any old garbage up on github and expect the community to hack on the code until it almost works. Software quality is worse than ever and you can thank the cavalier attitude that open source development encourages.

    2. Re: Ignorance and avarice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ignoring your unsupportable generalizations for the moment.... Since the source for most shareware was never available how do you know it was decent software?

    3. Re: Ignorance and avarice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ignoring that you're clearly too stupid to warrant a response, quality software doesn't crash all the time and does what it was written to do because the author bothered to test it before release.

      Open source coders don't test, don't release, and don't fucking give a shit. You clone whatever repo you want, hope it builds, and if it doesn't work, just keep pulling new commits until somebody from the community is naive enough to fix those bugs, baby! Eventually you will need to fork a project and refactor everything because it's full of bugs and nothing actually works.

      But of course you're a stupid motherfucking SJW techbro who's all caught up on the word "decent" which to you means irrelevant shit like is the software coded in your favorite language by upstanding members of your social group according to your style guidelines.

      Fuck you.

  33. Open Source failed, Free Software succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Open Source" failed "Free Software" succeeded.

    The FSF has been around since 1984 and has been widely more successful.

    Today, 99 out of the top 100 websites run GNU/linux, the exception being one FreeBSD shop.

    Today, most cell phones run either Linux, with Android, which at its core is Free software, or iOS, which at its core is darwin, more free software. Without FreeBSD to make darwin, or a powerful linux kernel, neither of these would exist. And no, kernels that powerful could have not been developed commericially on time, on a budget.

    Free software fueled the dotcom boom allowing small companies and even not for profits access to server hosting resources on cheaper x86 platforms.

    "Open Source" was coined by Eric Raymond to troll Free software and ruin it. By 1997, Apache, MySQL, GNU, Linux, PHP, etc.. and other commonly used software already existed and was deployed. He's convinced few people or companies to contribute. The ones that do, its clearly the power and circumstances of successful powerful software like GNU, Linux, Apache, nginx, et al and their ability to perform is more a factor that ESR's inane ramblings

    Speaking of "Open Source". Its time we stop repeating what this terrible concern troll, likely sociopath Eric Raymond has to say. He hasn't really contributed anything except trying to discredit actual content producers. His anti social antics are the stuff which makes nerds look bad.

    http://www.azquotes.com/quote/...

    Does any person or company want to be associated with that? The OSI is merely a publicity org, and their founder is public relations poison.

    The only "success" Open Source and the OSI has had is convincing people to use the term "Open Source" instead of Free Software. Other than that they've been a dismal failure while Richard Stallman, the FSF and the Free Software moving have been a blinding success.

    Speaking of RMS. Despite all the nasty things people say about Stallman, he's got a phenomenal personal brand, die hard followers and people trust hiim. If you plan on releasing your source code to the public, he has far more credibility than a forgotten anti-social liability like ESR.

    1. Re:Open Source failed, Free Software succeeded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Free Software is used as a convenience, there is still no decent free software desktop, laptop, tablet, smartwatch, ar, vr, etc .. while many have Linux as their core interface to work with the hardware that is where it stops. It's the non-free software that makes the devices actually useful. Why write a kernel for these products when you can just use an existing one and build atop it and it's free of charge? By the same token any of the products that are free software top to bottom have been crappy, late to market and not taken off.

  34. Duh, of course. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Anyone who says OSS hasn't changed the world doesn't know what the world was like before OSS. Before OSS you had to pay for every little library or thing you wanted to do. You had to pay for the OS, the DB, the compiler, everything.

    That obviously makes this FAR cheaper, and far easier to use. We'd almost certainly not have 90% of what exists today without OSS.

  35. Good topic, wrong discussion, thus wrong answer by dsgrntlxmply · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Of what functional relevance is a 20 year anniversary celebration of a piece of marketing nomenclature? If you want an excuse to have a cocktail party to celebrate a two-word branding phrase that is lamented as failing to meet someone's ambition, go ahead.

    My realm is embedded systems: high reliability systems with 10-20 year designed service life, using a variety of CPU architectures, and evolving into very high complexity System On Chip designs. These systems would not be feasible across this timescale without a stabilized and evolving GPL'd tools base: gcc, binutils, and glibc, and Linux as a long-lived build platform.

    20 years might be accurate for "open source" as nomenclature. It is not accurate for the underlying phenomena. My choice of monument is a GNU Emacs 16.56 source tape dated 1985, at the point where RMS had replaced the disputed display code from Gosling Emacs.

    By around 1992, gcc had evolved to be usable (with a lot of configuration work for gcc and the runtime library) as a cross compiler. At the time I was working on a 68000 based embedded system, using a commercial cross compiler. The commercial product was expensive, slow, had some arcane proprietary extensions, and was abandoned by its supplier (their principal business was defense contracting) from further development, and even if I recall correctly, re-hosting beyond Sun 3.

    Gcc became the clear choice to carry the project forward. I put it into place, and it supported the product for the remaining 12 years or so of active development (some new capabilities, mostly keeping up with replacements for obsolete components).

    For the past 9 years much of my work has been centered around a body of proprietary software that supports certain high function System On Chip products from a vendor. This software has a history of at least 10 years, three major chip family architectures, and several steps of evolution within each architecture. It has grown to around 30M lines of C code. This is not bloatware with elaborate frameworks and libraries: these devices are sufficiently complex to require that much software to even construct a usable API (around 2800 pages for a sketchy API document, 5800 pages for a very incomplete chip hardware reference).

    None of this would be feasible without a long term stable cross-compiler (gcc) and a place to run it (Linux) on large bodies of code.

    Meanwhile in the un-free software world, a defense contractor friend pointed me to a recent U.S. Navy RFP for translation or other porting technology, seeking to make 1970s software written in a proprietary 1969 language (CMS-2), runnable on ordinary modern commercial machines. Today it runs on fossilized power-hungry refrigerator-sized Univac AN/UYK-somethings, built from components that went out of production years ago. Yes, our national defense depends upon stuff like this that has outlived essentially all of the original authors. The situation is similar for other long life cycle embedded products, in realms apart from weaponry.

    Note that IBM mainframe OS and compiler software were freely available until the early 1970s, when compilers and some other larger products went from a $25 tape copy charge for source, to expensive licenses and restricted source code access. Some of us learned quite a lot by reading e.g. the $25 Fortran H compiler source code.

    The history from my perspective, looks more like open (1970), closed (1972), opening back up (1985), usably open (1992), then "open source" as nomenclature (1997), then whatever you want to call today's maelstrom of bloated frameworks. GPL's origin in MIT / Symbolics / LMI controversies is a crucial component of the 1972-1985 evolution; that story must be mentioned, and is told elsewhere from disparate perspectives.

    1. Re:Good topic, wrong discussion, thus wrong answer by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

      Melinda Varian wrote up the IBM VM community part of that history, with IBM mainframes going from available source for all IBM mainframe users to "object code only" in 1983: http://www.leeandmelindavarian...
      "On February 8, 1983, a few days after the announcement of VM/SP Release 3, IBM announced the Object Code Only (OCO) policy. Much of the heart went out of the VM community on that day. In the years that followed, IBM and its customers lost opportunity after opportunity because of that unfortunate decision."

      I met IBMers still angry about the foolish management decision about fifteen years later when working at IBM Research. They were some of the people supportive of an increasing interest in FOSS at IBM.

      --
      A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  36. Communist Open Sores never changed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Communist open sores is by niggers and faggots, for niggers and faggots, which is why it will always suck when compared to real software.

  37. It created a whole new business model... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that has taken over the world.

    Under this new business model, penny-pinching CEOs have cheap lazy bad programmers put together the embedded software for their new consumer gadgets in the worst way possible. These bad coders grab a bunch of open source code from the web and stick it together with chewing gum and bailing wire and then stuff it into products which then hook to the internet and become security hazards. They cannot maintain or fix 'their" code because they did not write most of it and have no clue about how it works and the limitations of, and potential bad interactions between, the various code blobs they used.

    The bigger downside is that most users can never update the firmware as open source ASSUMES users will be able to, so all those gadgets become instantly hackable as soon as an exploitable bug is discovered in any of the code modules included in these products.

    Before the open source revolution, any of us who embedded code into products had to write ALL of it and understand ALL of it, including any network protocol stacks. We had to make stuff pretty rugged and test a lot because we presumed there would never be any updates. Managers hated all the testing and coding time because they did not see tangible results, particularly because the end-user problems that did not happen did not get their attention.

    1. Re:It created a whole new business model... by ShoulderOfOrion · · Score: 1

      Got that 8051 runnng yet?

  38. Open Source is really ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... global warming, so "yes."

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  39. Yes, and for the desktop. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's never been anything about open source that suggests that developers should listen to the end users..

    And there's the foundation for every OSS GUI fight, from KDE vs Gome, to Blender and GIMP. That's why there's a perpetual [year of] Linux desktop.

  40. Only a little because of bad economic models by shanen · · Score: 1

    Has open source changed the world?

    Only a little, and it's because OSS has weak economic models.

    Idealism is good, but it needs support, including financial support. I basically feel like defying you to name any OSS economic model that has successfully competed against the greedy bastards. I don't have time now, or I'd start listing the failures.

    What I do have time to say is that I think OSS programmers should be paid fairly, and the money should be there BEFORE they start working on the project. I also think the projects should be linked to users who are willing to PAY for the work, even if each potential user is only chipping in ten bucks or so. A software service driven by OSS that incurs ongoing costs should be funded on a similar basis, with the beneficiaries of the software helping to cover those ongoing costs. None of this needs to be driven by massive greed for YUGE profits, but just by the goal of recovering the costs and paying people fairly for their time and work.

    I already noted that my time is intruding, so I can't repeat the whole description of how this could be done. Or maybe you have a better idea of how to achieve these goals? You can find LOTS of details in my old comments on Slashdot, or ask nicely and I might have time to rehash it before the story dies and falls off the front page.

    Gotta bike. Bye for now.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  41. OSS is like interchangable parts for mfg by caseih · · Score: 1

    While the vast majority of software in use today is proprietary, and much of it hidden behind servers that process the day-to-day business of many companies, much of it is built out of open source parts with open source tools. So in many ways, it's similar to what the idea of interchangeable parts did for manufacturing. Not only does it make it easier to build software today, it's actually feasible to do some maintenance and modification of software, even proprietary software, when it's based on these open source basic parts. For example the entire MacOS operating system is, as a whole, a proprietary system, but there're a lot of parts that can be tweaked, replaced, or modified all thanks to a variety of open source projects that have become the standards. Beats the heck out of the old proprietary idea of standards.

    So in this sense, open source software, and also free software, has won wildly and completely displaced the older styles of development where compilers and IDEs were expensive, and incredibly proprietary and not cross platform.

    It's never been easier or cheaper or more accessible to develop software and build systems with sophisticated tools thanks to the effects and affects of open source in general. Even Visual Studio supports using free software tools for targeting a variety of platforms including Arduino, the Raspberry Pi, and Linux in general.

    So there is yet much reason to be excited about the future of open source, Linux, hardware, and many other things coming.

  42. Ummmm Biology? by goombah99 · · Score: 1

    There's this little thing known as genome assembly and protein structure prediction. I'd like to suggest that this has changed the world. And how did it happen? federations of people sharing their software improvements openly.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  43. Business secrets by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Open Source is changing the wold.
    A cloud without linux, docker, Java, and all those Apache projects is nearly unthinkable.
    However why would a bank or a travel agency or an airline open source their custom made software?

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  44. Re: by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

    Do you have any proof of that connection?

    My experience is rather that Open Source contributions are done voluntarily and not by force.

    And a lot of Open Source out there is more or less working as the glue that ties things together. Without it we would have been stuck in a world filled with proprietary solutions that were unable to communicate with each other without having gateway nodes or even carried on physical media. In some places the tax authorities required that if you were to file taxes electronically the taxes were filed on some obscure IBM format on 8" floppies.

    --
    If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  45. Free is hardly ever free by TJHook3r · · Score: 1

    Just one aspect, often ignored by management-types... The cost of buying software is often the small bit. The real money is spent on staff to use it.

  46. It's the economics by eddeye · · Score: 2

    The decision is dictated by economics. Depends entirely on the software's purpose. Is it infrastructure or is it a source of competitive advantage?

    Common infrastructure code begs to be open source. Having 20 subtly incompatible flavors of Unix does the world no good - hence linux and bsd's success. Likewise Android gives all mobile phones a common base, taking away the burden of 20 vendors each creating a mobile OS poorly. Same thing with web browsers, few benefit anymore from making a closed proprietary platform. Better to share the burden.

    Software that gives companies a competitive advantage is completely different. Open sourcing that would be killing the golden goose. Yes companies can build their business model around services and support instead of proprietary code - but that decision is made very early on and hard to reverse later.

    You don't see Microsoft open sourcing the windows kernel and API, or Apple open sourcing their GUI libraries, or Google releasing their web search or data center code, or Amazon open sourcing their cloud server platform (it's built on open source but the custom parts stay proprietary). These things will stay closed because that's how these companies make money. Putting this code in competitor's hands makes no sense.

    As long as these companies derive competitive advantage from a piece of software, they'd be foolish to open source it. In other areas where the software is just a cost to the company, it makes sense to open source and share the burden.

    --
    Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on lunch.
    1. Re:It's the economics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't see Microsoft open sourcing the windows kernel and API, or Apple open sourcing their GUI libraries, or Google releasing their web search or data center code, or Amazon open sourcing their cloud server platform (it's built on open source but the custom parts stay proprietary). These things will stay closed because that's how these companies make money. Putting this code in competitor's hands makes no sense.

      As long as these companies derive competitive advantage from a piece of software, they'd be foolish to open source it. In other areas where the software is just a cost to the company, it makes sense to open source and share the burden.

      A right to long term public oversight over business can be asserted as a basic human right. Just as society has an interest in making sure that business do no long term harm to the physical environment (e.g. pollution), so to does society have an interest in making sure that software companies do not do inappropriate things for societies computing environment and infrastructure (or otherwise violate the law in what they do with their software).

      As such, it is an infringement of fundamental rights for businesses to keep their source code secret over the long term.

      Infringement of fundamental rights "under the colour of law" has been a criminal offence - and grounds for civil suit - in US federal law for a long time. Hence to be complaint with the law, these companies MUST release their source code eventually.

      In some situations, this right becomes a short term right.

      In practice, routine bribery (I mean campaign contributions) of political parties - and ethical conflict of interest on the part of the US legal profession (which has multiple conflicts of interest with respect to ignoring the 9th and 10th elements) - ensure that no action is taken to implement the laws already on the books. This is true even when the software is being used for law enforcement, where the public interest is especially compelling - and definitely short term, not long.

      The conclusion follows that the Bill of Rights is being routinely violated by government, by software companies, and by the US legal profession.

  47. Chicken or the Egg? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The answer is clearly proto-chicken...

  48. GCC by johannesg · · Score: 2

    Yes, Open Source has changed the world. And I'm going to argue that the most important thing that ever came out of the Open Source community was not Linux, nor GNU (the whole of it), but specifically GCC.

    GCC is what enables you to sit down and write software without having to pay a massive sum to a compiler vendor. GCC is what lets young people interested in programming experiment, learn, and ultimately become professionals. GCC is why we have the rest of GNU and the Linux kernel. GCC is the reason we have free versions of Visual Studio. And GCC is the reason C++ is the most important programming language today. In many ways, GCC changed the direction the software world has taken, allowing software to be written that would otherwise never have existed, and planting the seeds of the value of Open Source software in people's minds.

  49. Re: by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    I'd even dispute the assertion that most open source development goes unpaid. It might be true if you look at total lines of code written, but I'd be very surprised if it's true if you weight it towards the projects that people actually use. Most companies get very nervous depending on volunteers for anything business critical and would much rather have someone paid to be responsible for it. I contribute to several open source projects (and I'm paid for quite a lot of that) and the most successful ones all have most code written by paid individuals. A lot of the unpaid work is effectively advertising for the developers in question: 'hey, you need an expert in this? I wrote a load of it, you should hire me!'

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  50. There is no right life in the wrong one by demon+driver · · Score: 1

    Yes, OSS has changed many a thing, but, no, it hasn't changed the world much. The world is still based on profit as the single exclusive control quantity for things being done, which stays the primary reason why the world is in its dire and further deteriorating state. And of course OSS is only able to flourish where it doesn't harm profit, and that's not going to change within an economic operating system that would break (and lose its capability to feed people, as limited as that capability ever was) without the continued maximization of profit.

  51. It's all about availabe support by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Working for a very large financial company, the main reason they don't use more open source is the lack of a single point of support. When there is an issue, they don't want to have to scour through web posts looking for a cure. They want to be able to pick up a phone, dial one number, open a ticket, and get the issue resolved asap. They do have a large RedHat presence, but that is about it for Open Source.

  52. GPL Pooched It: Own Goal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It was established ass a "viral license."

    What happens when on-tech managers (and corporate counsels) hear "viral"?

    Guess.

    I think the advent of more permissive licenses, like MIT have made a huge difference. I participate in CocoaPods, which expressly forbids GPL.

  53. SHAREWARE Started it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone that's ever called a BBS knows that SHAREWARE was the real start.

    You could get almost any utility/app/game and if you liked it, you MAILED the author a small amount of money.

    That was the first step towards open software. FREEWARE was also a thing. All OSS did was add some legal stuff to solidify the agreement between you and the software's author.

  54. Open Source too small of an ROI .. by najajomo · · Score: 1

    "[T]he reason most software remains locked up within the four walls of enterprise firewalls is that it's too costly with too small of an ROI to justify open-sourcing it."

    Talk about damning with faint praise. A novel interpretation and the first I've ever heard of this analysis. The worlds top supercomputers all run on a variant of Linux and the makers still manage to make a profit. If I was paranoid I would suspect Matt Asay was put up to join the Open Source Initiative and subvert it from the inside.

    Linux totally dominates supercomputers

    Red Hat on the NYSE

    78 percent of companies run open-source software

  55. MS success due to its API by najajomo · · Score: 1

    @GerryGilmore: 'There was NO "UNIX API" as MS had, hence their subsequent success' .. That and sabotaging Windows to not run other peoples software and keeping the API calls undocumented.

    Microsoft's Allegedly Undocumented APIs - Comes v. Microsoft

    'The demos of OS/2 were excellent, crashing the system had the intended effect'

  56. Sometimes false-belief... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We're starting to believe, and for good reason, that the best, most innovative software is open source."

    There's not an open-source alternative to Microsoft Exchange that comes anywhere near close to being the "best" or "most innovative"

    Anyone who believes there is is mental.

  57. Our world , yes. THE world, marginally. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No doubt that GCC changed the programming world by making reliable compilers exist.
    The compiler market was pretty lame by today's standards.

    Linux has made a few inroads into the general public, but it mostly affects the tech community.
    Munich comes to mind as the biggest general experiment.
    Using Ubuntu to make a low budget computer might be a another area.

    Web browsers are probably the biggest direct impact for the general public.

    The biggest world wide affect may be the general raising of the bar for software products.

  58. Minecraft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I really liked the way Notch did it. He made an API and released that for everyone to use, then it was just understood that anything you wrote yourself, you were on your own supporting it.

  59. Open-source scare tactics remain a problem. by shess · · Score: 1

    Some companies will just take whatever code they find, use it without attribution and F.U. Admittedly, most of those companies aren't particularly successful, but it happens a lot, because it's easy. Those bad actors can just do it without worry, and that's pretty cheap.

    Unfortunately, many companies refuse to use open source AT ALL, because they believe it is infectious to ownership of their IP. Whether that is true or not of a particular license, there is a notable subset of the open source world who thinks infection is a feature which should be encouraged, so it can be hard to get legal departments past that hurdle.

    When I was working at Google, they had a department tasked with reviewing things and deciding on which were usable. It was actually pretty nice, because at Google's scale, they could have experienced people who could make decisions with confidence rather than fear. But even there, there were licenses which were "Don't even install these packages on your system".

    I get GNU's position on this, I just think it's a dumb position which ignores reality. Sure, it _would_ be nice if all software was checked into github for free sharing by everyone. But that's just not how people work, sometimes you need to put in time getting them used to the idea of sharing before they get to a point where they can successfully share the stuff they're writing.

  60. No by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No

  61. No by SurenEnfiajyan · · Score: 0

    No, the vast majority of software is proprietary. Proprietary software isn't going anywhere soon, so are copyrights and software patents. Developing a good product isn't cheap or fun and if there is no way to monetize it, then sorry, it's a suicide. One of the best examples of such failures is desktop Linux. Open source software has always existed even before any Richard Stallmans and nothing has radically changed.

  62. Why don't most companies open source by MemeRot · · Score: 1

    1) Most proprietary apps are line of business apps that wouldn't work outside the company. Who wants the access database app code a local insurance company uses?
    2) Most proprietary crap quality and companies don't want it out there because it's embarrassing.
    3) Software as a service/cloud hosting is an end run around the GPL since the software is never distributed to users.

  63. disciplining academic code by peter303 · · Score: 1

    I see a fair number of academic and government codes now appearing in github. That puts them under source control and make files. Sometimes bug management and documentation. These are all items mandatory in the software industry and used to sparse in crappy student code. It can also be good publicity for code authors in future job hunts.

  64. Anything interesting & tough enough by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    that only 5 people can understand it is usually being done at a University because it's usually so far from being turned into a product that nobody'll fund it for cash. The exception is High Frequency Trading and military applications (think missile guidance systems); both of which rely on secrecy (and in HFT's case a good 'ole boys network).

    Where closed source rules is in boredom. It's hard to get folks to write office software because it's not a very interesting problem to a software dev and unlike the GNU tool chain it's not something the devs need for themselves.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  65. Companies keep becoming untrustworthy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Forced spying and user-hostile privacy policies make open-source a good choice. Now if only Samsung TVs could be flashed w/an open source firmware (Samsung Privacy policy is highly disturbing).

  66. GPL violations are everywhere by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

    One example, with added chuntzpah:

    Hangzhou Xiongmai Technology Co.,LTD. - one of the world's largest makers of DVR/NVR/Camer software is shipping Linux distros on HiSilicon (Huawei) SoC hardware, adding proprietary software (which is riddled with GPL symbols) totally stonewalling all attempts to obtain source code and then complaining loudly that other people are stealing its software.

    Yes, the same Hangzhou Xiongmai Technology Co.,LTD whose DVR software was the host for Mirai and friends - and whose "fixes" for this can be circumvented in less than a minute (they disabled telnetd, it can be reenabled via the web interface and the traversal attack is still there)

  67. Right, POSIX by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because POSIX changed everything. So did the Standard Unix Specification.

    Oh wait, no they didn't.

  68. Why OS hasn't changed the world? by dddux · · Score: 1

    It hasn't changed the world because the world hasn't changed. "I like my xxx software because it does what I like and I'm perfectly alright with paying for it." Good for you, Joe. Have you tried changing? "No, it doesn't do it for me." So that's what you have, Joe. Keep churnin'.

    --
    "It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." - Jiddu Krishnamurti