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Washington Bill Makes It Illegal To Sell Gadgets Without Replaceable Batteries (vice.com)
Jason Koebler writes: A bill that would make it easier to fix your electronics is rapidly hurtling through the Washington state legislature. The bill's ascent is fueled by Apple's iPhone-throttling controversy, which has placed a renewed focus on the fact that our electronics have become increasingly difficult to repair.
Starting in 2019, the bill would ban the sale of electronics that are designed "in such a way as to prevent reasonable diagnostic or repair functions by an independent repair provider. Preventing reasonable diagnostic or repair functions includes permanently affixing a battery in a manner that makes it difficult or impossible to remove."
Starting in 2019, the bill would ban the sale of electronics that are designed "in such a way as to prevent reasonable diagnostic or repair functions by an independent repair provider. Preventing reasonable diagnostic or repair functions includes permanently affixing a battery in a manner that makes it difficult or impossible to remove."
"NEW SECTION. Sec. 5. (1) Nothing in this section applies to 30 motor vehicle manufacturers, any product or service of a motor 31 vehicle manufacturer, or motor vehicle dealers." Cars and tractors are still not included. Still got to go through the dealer for service.
Yep, it is that kind of very vague language in law (especially more and more in today's laws coming thought State and Federal), that are so broadly worded, that it can cause problems, some in VERY distinct ways.
Another example of this, is the ATF about to redo regulations that pretty much define "machine" gun which is written as law. They are about to basically make new law (saving our congress critters from actually having to go on record and vote)....but essentially, they are being pressured into going after bump stocks.
The problems is, they aren't specifically mentioning bump stocks or precisely defining them. They are trying to broadly work it as "any device that increases the rate of fire". Well for one thing, there is not defined base level of "rate of fire".
That could mean ANY modification to a semi-auto weapon, like just putting in a lighter trigger for competition shooting...that allows you to increase your rate of fire. Hell, your finger could be considered a problem, in that it is pretty easy to hold an AR loosely enough to let the recoil hit your finger quickly and fire like you can with a bump stock..
To that note...high capacity magazines could come under fire, in that having larger capacities allow you to fire faster since you don't have to change more often.
That's just one example....but we need to force our legislators to quit working laws so broadly. Make them more precise, and when a new thing comes along, rather than trying to make a square peg fit into a round hole, come up with a new damned law, or pass real legislation to change things.
Don't just word it broadly, and then allow some UNELECTED bureaucratic enforcement agency define what things are.
Just because you may like it one way, doesn't mean it won't come to bite you in the ass on another topic you do care about.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
The last time this came up on Slashdot, the objection to forcing replaceable batteries was that having fixed batteries allows for unusual battery shapes and less concern regarding seals so that engineers can design thinner phones.
You know what? Not good enough. If it's so important to have such a thin phone, then the manufacturers need to be required by law to take back their product at the end of its life cycle and REcycle.
I'd argue this would be an expensive but good idea anyway, because 'the environment' isn't just a thing for tree-huggers, we all need it.
FTB (from the Bill):
2) "Digital electronic product" means a handheld or portable electronic device containing a microprocessor and flat panel computer monitor originally manufactured for distribution and sale in the United States for general consumer purchase. Digital electronic product includes but is not limited to smartphones, electronic reading devices, laptop computers, and tablets.
So no, it will not outlaw musical greeting cards... unless they come with a flat panel monitor. It seems like it will also not outlaw medical or industrial devices, as it says "for general consumer purchase".
From TFS: "Preventing reasonable diagnostic or repair functions includes permanently affixing a battery in a manner that makes it difficult or impossible to remove."
There is some ambiguity, but the intent seems pretty obvious.
IMO, this legislation is something we've needed for a long time. Musical birthday cards should get a pass. But expensive consumer electronics should not be treated as disposable items.
Musical birthday cards should get a pass.
If this legislation causes the end of musical birthday cards, it would be the most effective law passed this year.
The cesspool just got a check and balance.
(Some) people may know their phone is not repairable. However, they do not consider the environmental cost since the cost is passed on to the rest of the world. This is exactly the kind of situation where you need government intervention. To fix a market failure.
The bill literally contains 20 lines spent defining "fair and reasonable". Can you elaborate on why you consider it "vague".
From TFS: "Preventing reasonable diagnostic or repair functions includes permanently affixing a battery in a manner that makes it difficult or impossible to remove."
There is some ambiguity, but the intent seems pretty obvious.
Uh, no it's not, and this won't change a damn thing. Using the term "independent repair provider" even dictates that repairs will still not be something an end-user is authorized or allowed to do, and implies that consumers will still have to pay someone to change out a battery. No one "repairs" a battery, they get replaced, which is all consumers are asking for. We used to have removable batteries. Greed infected design, and now we do not.
Enough of the ambiguity. Enough of the bullshit. Word it in black and white terms. Electronic devices with rechargeable batteries should be designed in such a way that they are easily replaceable by the end user. See? It's not hard to remove the ambiguity and put a stop to relentless greed that continues to fuck over the consumer.
So, Lawmakers from Washington have outlawed Microsoft's entire Surface line. I'm sure Microsoft will be thrilled.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
i dunno, i'd rather government take a step back from directly interfering in how companies design and market their products -- obviously with health, safety, and fraud concerns withstanding.
With regulations like this where does it end? It sucks that 'voting with your dollars' doesn't really work when all the manufacturers pull the same shenanigans; but having mommy government step in to dictate these things is an even worse idea. It's feel good legislation at its finest, but real world consequences intended or not are being ignored.
Are Ink cartridges next? Come on, HP/Cannon/Brother et all, cannot seriously think those things cost that much to make.... Shall we make it illegal to create a printer that detects third party or refilled cartridges and refuses to use them?
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
But with replaceable batteries musical birthday cards could enter a whole NEW ERA!!!
With e-ink, cards could be used many times. Just think of changing the cover art to a new JPG or even GIF. Next we allow the card licensee to sing and record or buy downloaded music from the card store. Of course your card will have internet access to assure no pirated content was used in the "redeployment" of the card... can't have you singing any Stevie Wonder hits without paying for them. But you could piggyback on the Internet of Cards by placing current sports scores or a favorite news feed on the back or even inside.
Sure, in awhile Apple will produce the Must Have iCards (and change them every six months) but two thirds of us can just keep handing the same cards back and forth every year.
/sarcasm (I Hope)
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
> Why does the government have to limit my choice?
To protect everyone else who is not an idiot. That's why.
I feel sorry for you that the stupid government doesn't allow you to buy toasters that burn down your house. Or drugs that poison you. Or foods that make you sick. It's such a shame really. But if you put your mind to it, I'm sure you can find ways to burn down your house, poison yourself or make yourself sick despite the nanny government trying to protect the rest of us from being f***ked by corporations.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
" the bill would ban the sale of electronics that are designed "in such a way as to prevent reasonable diagnostic or repair functions by an independent repair provider." Would that include all the Home Theater equipment out there that is designed to be thrown away, not repaired? I have been repiaring audio gear for over 40 years. Since the advent of Home Theater scenarios, most of the junk available is not worth repairing, even if it CAN be repaired. Will that be covered under the bill?
What's the threshold for 'easily'?
Like, without tools? That means all our phones will be bulky again. I don't want a phone like that. I hated that design, and I'll continue to hate it. I don't mind the possibility that I'll have to take my phone into a shop so someone can disassemble it and pop in a new battery any more than I mind taking my car into the shop so I can have something repaired. If I wanted to learn how to do those things, I would, and indeed, I can. iFixit makes kits so you can do it yourself, and people do it.
So I don't know that your wording makes it any better, except to possibly require companies to make phones that I feel are terrible by design.
I get that we don't agree on the design angle, but I don't want it legislated out of existence.
> We're the government! And we know what's best for you!
Yeah. Heaven forbid that we have clean air. Clean water. Television sets that don't explode. Food that isn't poison. Quaak cures that kill people. Building codes. And on and on with government regulations!
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
When the government has to regulate things it is generally because the corporations brought it on themselves.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
Unfortunately, the choice that you say you advocate is being removed so that you can no longer choose. So if the corporations are going to force a bad choice upon me, I would rather the government force them into giving me the good choice. I would rather not have this regulation at all. But the corporations always bring it upon themselves. If they don't like it, they shouldn't abuse their position.
I'll see your senator, and I'll raise you two judges.
I have yet to encounter a product that could not be disassembled, or a battery that cannot be removed. The product may not work AFTER disassembly, but it can be disassembled.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
I cannot think of a single faucet of life, a human endeavor, or anything that we might seek to do, accomplish, or perform that isn't made better by legislation and governmental control and regulation.
See, that's the problem. They regulate my faucets to stupid-low flow levels! I can barely get enough pressure to deal with hard water and soap. It's almost like by controlling our faucets, they want to control all facets of our life!
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
A few years ago, my son's android tablet was having battery issues. It was 2 years old so the vendor wasn't supporting it. They offered to take it for about $60, examine it, and let me know what was happening to it. Then, I could choose to fix it (for more money though they "graciously" would deduct that $60 initial payment from the cost) or I could have it sent back. They couldn't guarantee that it wouldn't arrive back factory reset with all of my son's game data erased.
I found the battery online for about $15 and tools to do the repair for about another $10. Unfortunately, I needed to use the tools to pry the case open and I just couldn't get it done. I went to a repair shop and they were able to pry it open and replace the battery with the one I bought for $25. Even though I "wasted" money on the tools, I still got the tablet fixed for less than what the manufacturer wanted.
My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
which is all consumers are asking for.
I'm assuming you're basically talking about Cell Phones, if you are not, please take the rest as issues I have with this law anyways.
1) If Consumers DEMANDED replaceable batteries in phones (or other devices) they would be BUYING them. If your choice was between iPhone 8 and something like an LG V20, they would abandon iPhones for LG. The problem is, that they want an iPhone first, battery second. THEY made the choice, and voted with their money. If Apple was losing BILLIONS to people who WANT removable batteries as a PRIMARY feature, they would make an iPhone with Removable Battery.
2)If Consumers DEMANDED replaceable batteries over other features like Water Proof/Resistant devices, then they would be BUYING them. Since it is makes devices MORE expensive to have WaterProof and Replaceable batteries than one or the other, and people are choosing lesser expensive single option devices (Waterproof, no replaceable battery vs replaceable battery and don't drop in the pool) the the market has spoken.
3) In almost ALL categories, there ARE options for having those features, while giving up others, and the relative price points for each are such that the Market is making cost/feature analysis as part of their buying choices is already available.
Conclusion: A law like the one proposes removes choice and replaces it with draconian rules that the Market has ALREADY rejected with the voting dollars. This is the problem with the whole "There ought to be a law" people, is that they want what they want, but are UNWILLING to do it for themselves. This is the choice of the Consumer, not the state.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
Define "bulky"?
Lumia 950XL : 8.1 mm 3350 user serviceable mah battery
iPhone X : 7.7 mm 2750 permanent battery
I also get to mix up the design of my phone with new backings without adding any bulk like a phone case adds.
0.4mm is 4 sheets of paper.