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Apple Still Aims To Allow iPad Apps To Run on Macs This Year (axios.com)

Apple's push for performance and security improvements over new features will also apply to this year's Mac software, Axios reported on Wednesday, but one key feature remains on the roadmap for 2018: The ability for Macs to run iPad apps. From the report: On the Mac side, this is taking the form of a new project around security as well as improvements in performance when waking and unlocking the system. While users would certainly welcome changes that make their systems run better and more securely, customers tend to be more motivated to make purchases based on new features rather than promised improvements around security or performance, which can be tough to judge. The signature new feature for the Mac -- the ability to run iPad apps -- is a significant undertaking that adds a high degree of complexity to this year's OS release.

63 comments

  1. My Mac already does this.... by Kenja · · Score: 2

    There's an iOS device emulator included with XCode.

    --

    "Have you ever thought about just turning off the TV, sitting down with your kids, and hitting them?"
    1. Re:My Mac already does this.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To be fair, that is running CocoaTouch compiled natively for x86_64. I would assume this would have an ARM emulator (until everyone had recompiled and shipped their iPad apps to contain an x86 target)

    2. Re:My Mac already does this.... by Hal_Porter · · Score: 0

      Intel did an ARM on x86 emulator called libhoudini for Atom based Android phones, And Intel treat Apple like a spoiled favourite child, so I'm sure Intel would be willing to share code.

      https://commonsware.com/blog/2...

      Libhoudini run 32 bit ARM code on x86 of course, not 64 bit ARM code on x64.

      --
      echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
    3. Re:My Mac already does this.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Buuut the last I knew, you could only run the apps you are developing? There was a time you could run any as long as you have the ipa file, but that was removed.

    4. Re:My Mac already does this.... by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      There's an iOS device emulator included with XCode.

      I'm curious though how well they will translate though? Last time I used the emulator (haven't done iOS development in a while), and while you could do quite a bit of testing, there was a lot you can't do. How do you handle some unique inputs such as screen tilt or multi-touch gestures? I imagine that they'd want them to run full screen too, which you can't do with the emulator either last time I checked.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    5. Re:My Mac already does this.... by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      To be fair, that is running CocoaTouch compiled natively for x86_64. I would assume this would have an ARM emulator (until everyone had recompiled and shipped their iPad apps to contain an x86 target)

      Well, they could do that, but why would Apple spend months of effort building a sufficiently fast emulator, just so users can run ancient iOS apps that nobody cares enough about to maintain? If they cared about keeping old apps running without recompiling, we would still be able to run 32-bit iOS apps on iOS itself. Besides, they've already culled most of those old apps, which means that almost everything that you can download from the iOS App Store today is properly maintained.

      No, if they do this, I would imagine it will consist of:

      • Tweaking Xcode so that universal builds include a simulator slice.
      • Removing all device-only restrictions that prevent using certain features in the simulator (and adding macOS support for the features, where necessary).
      • Adding code to the Mac App Store to make it talk to the iOS App Store, showing only apps that have a simulator slice.
      • Modifying the iOS App Store to not reject binaries that contain a simulator slice.
      • Modifying the simulator and underlying iOS bits so that you can have multiple apps running in multiple windows, sharing underlying storage, ideally with each app having its own menu bar and showing up independently in Command-Tab/Dock/*.
      • Optionally adding menu bar classes to iOS so that iOS apps can modify their menu bar when running on Macs, and optionally making that available on actual iOS devices as well.
      • Telling developers to rebuild and resubmit their apps.

      And the problem of not having x86_64 simulator slices will take care of itself within three months without having to develop an arm64 emulator. The only way I could see Apple building any sort of emulator would be if they decided to do the reverse—allowing Mac apps to run on iPad Pro.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    6. Re:My Mac already does this.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually there is an iOS Simulator. It runs the specs of the machine not emulating and iOS device. This is an important distinction for developers, but to your point you have always theoretically been able to run apps.

    7. Re:My Mac already does this.... by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Now you see the reason for the Touch Bar. There's an ARM chip built into the keyboard.

      No emulating anything.

    8. Re:My Mac already does this.... by xfade551 · · Score: 1

      The touchpad on the MacBook line is multi-touch capable, as is the BlueTooth touchpad that comes with the iMac line. I'm not sure if the MacPro line comes with the BlueTooth touchpad.

  2. Re:finder / non store apps / root to be removed ne by tepples · · Score: 1

    Without those, on what device would people be expected to run Xcode?

  3. Touchscreen laptops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Next up: Apple invents "brave" new technology: touch-screen laptops!! Also probably some proprietary/dmca/lock-in touch support for desktops, too.

    1. Re:Touchscreen laptops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell No.. What money is in that? Everybody has fingers to use for free. apple devices will require a special apple stylus for only 99$ each; or a dongle of some sort.

  4. I would bet not an ARM emulator by jtara · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would bet it will not be an ARM emulator.

    Apple already has iOS ported to X86 and has forever. It's used by developers when testing on the iOS simulator running on MacOS. The simulator doesn't run ARM code. It runs X86 code.

    Apple would likely give developers the option of including X86 platform support in their build. Developers could OPT IN to releasing on macOS. You already build for two different ARM platforms.

    There is nothing revolutionary here. Just a new build option and some new App Store/ITunesConnect functionality.

    I'm a cross-platform developer. I write apps that run on iOS and Android. On Android, it uses the NDK (native development kit) and I build for both ARM and X86. (Because some Android tablets are X86). What Apple is proposing is likely not much different.

    Apple wouldn't likely provide an ARM emulator, because the performance would suck.

    Every time Apple comes out with a new XCode version, they say "jump", and developers respond with "how high?". Or... not agaaaaainnnnn!

    1. Re:I would bet not an ARM emulator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would bet they're going to throw an ARM chip into upcoming laptops.

    2. Re:I would bet not an ARM emulator by stabiesoft · · Score: 1

      Question if you know... I had built some apps that used libs in the AndroWish app. I would install both the AndroWish app (which had the ndk libs in it) and my app which was stripped down TclTk + a little secret sauce to load the AndroWish stuff. This worked on my old Android Version 4 nexus 4 phone. I got a new phone which runs Oreo and while the AndroWish app worked, the apps which used AndroWish libs did not. In the end I rebuilt the AndroWish app myself, and bolted on the Tcl/Tk from my apps so that it was just one giant app.

      After all that background, my question is did a version after 4 of android stop allowing one app to use another app's libraries? That is my theory and makes sense as it was probably a security hole.

    3. Re:I would bet not an ARM emulator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Given one can utilize ARM specific intrinsics, inline assembly, etc. an ARM simulator would be the only transparent option without an X86 iOS submission requirement. One can not simply recompile around those cases without additional development work. Admittedly those cases are not common but those were used extensively on several games I've worked on for animation, physics simulation, and geometry deformation.

    4. Re:I would bet not an ARM emulator by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      They already did - the Touch Bar.

      (Like I said in another comment,,,)

    5. Re:I would bet not an ARM emulator by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't this the whole point of Apple's Bitcode from 2015? It's an intermediate form that can be recompiled on Apple's end for new architectures. As long as developers have submitted their apps with Bitcode, shouldn't Apple be able to provide x86_64 binaries directly from that, with no developer intervention at all?

  5. Say Goodbye to the mac. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    iOSX is here, welcome to zombie Steve Jobs walled garden.

    Captcha: satiric (or is it?)

    1. Re:Say Goodbye to the mac. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. In case you were wondering about that Apple "What's a computer?" ad.

    2. Re:Say Goodbye to the mac. by sexconker · · Score: 0

      OS X is dead. It's macOS now. Which mean's it's going to be iMac OS.

    3. Re:Say Goodbye to the mac. by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

      OS X is dead. It's macOS now. Which mean's it's going to be iMac OS.

      People have been saying that since OS X 10.7, you realize. And here we are at macOS 10.13 (SIX major revisions later!) and it STILL hasn't happened to any great extent.

      STFU.

    4. Re:Say Goodbye to the mac. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And its still a shitty fringe OS

  6. Re:finder / non store apps / root to be removed ne by llZENll · · Score: 1

    Xcode has been a store app for quite some time.

  7. Re:Only 5 years after Windows... by dbialac · · Score: 1

    Well, you see, it's quite simple: Apple has completely run out of ideas.

  8. Yeah... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But Macs don't have touchscreen, so honestly, how is that gonna work?

    1. Re:Yeah... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      But Macs don't have touchscreen, so honestly, how is that gonna work?

      Easy. They have multitouch trackpads on MacBooks back to at least 2011 (and possibly before), and the ones on the 2016-2017 MacBook Pros and the external Trackpad are already nearly the size of an iPad mini and have force-touch and multitouch; so...

      https://www.apple.com/shop/pro...

      Problem solved!

    2. Re:Yeah... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Almost solved. Any app that supports independent touches on particular parts of the screen still won't be fully usable (e.g. on-screen pianos). Unless, of course, this means Apple is finally building a laptop with a touchscreen.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    3. Re:Yeah... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      A Mouse, and a Touchpad is a mouse, works perfectly fine on an iPad.
      And touchpads on Macs are multi touch since a decade or longer ... no problem to interact with iOS.
      How do you think developers are toying with their Apps in the emulator?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    4. Re:Yeah... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      Almost solved. Any app that supports independent touches on particular parts of the screen still won't be fully usable (e.g. on-screen pianos). Unless, of course, this means Apple is finally building a laptop with a touchscreen.

      I believe that Apple trackpads have supported at least 5 independent touches (maybe more) for quite some time now.

      That's why I said "multitouch" in my original post.

    5. Re:Yeah... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      You're misunderstanding what I mean by independent touches. I mean apps where you touch two different things on the screen and do something with them simultaneously, where the exact spatial position of each touch matters (e.g. a virtual theremin app where one finger controls volume and another controls pitch). The trackpad works fine for gestures, and it works fine for clicking and dragging a single item. It cannot fully replicate the touch behavior of a phone, because there is no spatial mapping between trackpad touches and coordinates on the screen.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  9. Good but add legacy support everywhere by pubwvj · · Score: 1

    This is great but Apple should be offering legacy software support everywhere so that all iOS apps run on both iOS devices and Macs and all Mac applications run on both iOS devices and Macs. This is a fairly trivial task that would open up a huge amount of software that they have caused to be abandoned. There is a tremendous amount of excellent kids educational software that doesn't run on modern MacOSs (and iOS) that would then be available. There is also a lot of business applications and just fun other stuff. They can sandbox it all to make it safe. Apple has the resources.

    1. Re:Good but add legacy support everywhere by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

      This is great but Apple should be offering legacy software support everywhere so that all iOS apps run on both iOS devices and Macs and all Mac applications run on both iOS devices and Macs. This is a fairly trivial task that would open up a huge amount of software that they have caused to be abandoned. There is a tremendous amount of excellent kids educational software that doesn't run on modern MacOSs (and iOS) that would then be available. There is also a lot of business applications and just fun other stuff. They can sandbox it all to make it safe. Apple has the resources.

      It is a lot easier to emulate a system with less speed and resources on a system with greater speed and resources than vice-versa.

      That's why we won't be having macOS on iOS for a while yet...

    2. Re:Good but add legacy support everywhere by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      Yes, I understand, and most software does not tax the processors on either modern (>2005) Macs or iOS devices. Admittedly some very heavy duty power using software will have trouble under emulation but that isn't the software in question.

  10. No thanks by bogie · · Score: 0

    Apps I can"t ever roll back, have zero control over and where any update may break/change the app fundamentally and there is nothing you can do about it? Yea, no thanks. I don't care if it is the future I like my MacBook as is.

    --
    If you wanna get rich, you know that payback is a bitch
    1. Re:No thanks by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      You can restore the App from a backup, just like you do right now.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    2. Re:No thanks by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 2

      Apps I can"t ever roll back, have zero control over and where any update may break/change the app fundamentally and there is nothing you can do about it? Yea, no thanks. I don't care if it is the future I like my MacBook as is.

      WTF are you bleating about?

    3. Re:No thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You need either more thought or more words to get your point across.

  11. Re:Only 5 years after Windows... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    rofl windoze.
    Anyway my question is can I buy ipad apps on my mac. And do I have to rebuy my phone games for ipad.

  12. Re:Only 5 years after Windows... by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    This revolutionary innovative feature is only 5 years after Microsoft pulled off the same trick with Windows, and 2 years after Google pulled off the same trick with Chrome.

    Apple doesn't even have a touch friendly computer operating system... Kinda getting a bit ahead of themselves with talk of iPad apps on a Mac.

    Hate to reply to an Anonymous COWARD; but it is not at ALL the same with iOS Apps running under macOS.

    Although they have the same kernel (Darwin), iOS and macOS diverge quite a bit above that level. Windows tablets run Windows; so, duh. Don't know as much about Chrome; but thought it was designed from the ground-up to be the same across "Desktop" and "Mobile" incarnations; so again, duh.

    But iOS was never originally intended to be a subset of macOS; so it is a lot less "duh" for Apple to pull that trick off.

  13. Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will they run slower when the CMOS battery in my Mac gets old?

  14. Re:finder / non store apps / root to be removed ne by TheFakeTimCook · · Score: 1

    finder / non store apps / root to be removed next and in 2019 LTE in each mac

    Not THAT meme again!!!
    Go the FUCK away, Hater.

  15. What every Mac owner wants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So it's every Mac owners dream to turn their Mac into a iPad.

    1. Re:What every Mac owner wants by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it is! They want some Apps to run on it.

  16. Re:Only 5 years after Windows... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If apple poor vision for the future paints them into a corner whos fault is that?

  17. Xcode without Finder by tepples · · Score: 1

    True. Unlike Microsoft, Apple puts its own development tools in its own store. There's even Swift Playgrounds on iOS, with limited functionality intended for learning. Good luck seeing Microsoft squeeze a useful subset of Visual Studio onto Windows 10 S, its education-targeted OS.

    But without Finder, how would a user of Xcode gather and arrange the source files (some program code, some not) needed to build an application?

    1. Re:Xcode without Finder by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Within XCode of course, like I do on my Mac ... never used the finder to arrange some source files. But I don't use XCode often.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  18. This does not sound good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I stopped "upgrading" my iPad after two upgrades in a row completely broke applications I had bought and paid for. It's been stable ever since. Nothing more broke, because Apple was no longer allowed in there to break things.

    OS X has been likewise problematic, making things work worse with every "upgrade." This, while they don't fix what are actual bugs that have been reported to them, leave completely broken crap in there (like "App Nap") and we continue to suffer under increasingly problematic restrictions in the name of security.

    I'm just going to go with a whole lot of "no thanks." Apple's gone rotten.

  19. Hey, maybe they can let me run 32bit apps as well. by c120plus · · Score: 1

    Hey, maybe they can let me run 32bit apps as well. So I can finally switch from iOS10 to 11...

  20. Re:Godamnit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Exactly this 100%. This place is infected with apple wackjobs that think this way. Protect apple first; customers second.

  21. What about the lack of touch control on Macs? by seoras · · Score: 1

    I develop Apps and I welcome more platform support. Since the Xcode emulator already does this I can play with my own apps on my Mac desktop.
    However there are some things that are lacking and the big one is the finger gestures.
    You need to emulate finger swipes, pinch, shake etc etc with mouse or track pad.
    That doesn't sound like Apple at all, they don't like hacks and compromises. They've also stated they don't like touch screens on Macs.
    So, yes, very easy to do with existing Apps since Xcode can already compile x86 binary for any App but that doesn't mean they'll do it without hardware touch support.
    If this rumour is true then we might be seeing touch screen Macs being announced this year.

  22. They are doing no such thing by Andreas+Mayer · · Score: 4, Informative

    What Apple might bring, is the ability to create an application that runs on either device. But that application will have to be developed to explicitly support both, macOS and iOS devices. It will have to be able to handle a UI with either mouse or touch.

    In essence, there will be one entry in the App Store and if you download the app you'll get the variant suitable for your device.

    A Mac will not be able to just run any old iPad app.

    Source ... well, just ask anyone with a clue about macOS/iOS development.

  23. I only have one question for this. by greencfg · · Score: 1

    Why?

  24. i predicted this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This was obvious, and its easy.

    In software anything can be done, this is either a VM or something like WINE WIPAD

  25. I've been running iOS apps on my Mac for years. by jcr · · Score: 1

    From day one of the iOS SDK, we've had the iPhone simulator, and later the iPad and Apple Watch simulators.

    I've said for years that Apple should make it a consumer feature, and let us run any of our iOS apps on the Mac. Glad to hear they're getting around to it.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."