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Bicyclist Protests Net Neutrality By Slowing Traffic Outside the FCC Building (thehill.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from The Hill: A protester opposed to the Federal Communication Commission's (FCC) net neutrality repeal slowed traffic to a crawl outside the FCC Monday as a demonstration against the repeal. A video released Monday shows Rob Bliss, video director for the website Seriously.TV, setting up traffic cones to block all but one lane for cars, then riding a bike slowly in the lane. Bliss wore a sign encouraging drivers to upgrade to "priority access membership" for $5 a month, which would allow them to drive at normal speeds. The protest was meant to mimic what critics say will be the effect of the net neutrality repeal, which will allow internet service providers to favor certain content or require content providers to pay for faster speeds.

87 of 181 comments (clear)

  1. Where do I sign up? by MountainLogic · · Score: 3, Funny

    I want 10 memberships from this guy

  2. I'd like to see more protests this relevant. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Wow! Excellent protest!

    1. Re:I'd like to see more protests this relevant. by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      seriously.tv, not Seriously.TV

      Domain names are case insensitive. It is the same domain either way.

    2. Re:I'd like to see more protests this relevant. by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 1

      I'm sorry. I've been a bit ambivalent (yeah it sounds good in theory, but it seems every time the govt sticks its regulatory finger into something it makes things worse. Regardless, where I'm at it's a none issue either way. So really don't care.). But when protestors do stupid stunts like this my gut reaction is to take the side OPPOSITE the protestors.

    3. Re:I'd like to see more protests this relevant. by stooo · · Score: 1

      One cyclist ?
      It should be thousands !!

      --
      aaaaaaa
    4. Re:I'd like to see more protests this relevant. by Highdude702 · · Score: 1

      That would be the equivalent of Uncapping your modem O.o

  3. One problem. by cirby · · Score: 5, Insightful

    He inadvertently supported the other side.

    By impeding everyone else's "bandwidth" on his bicycle, he made the point that someone should have the power to move him out of the higher-speed lanes and into a lower-priority one.

    Oops.

    1. Re:One problem. by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 1

      Just the opposite... I suspect if you paid the protester sufficiently he would have gotten out of the way.

    2. Re:One problem. by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      Wouldn't it be more appropriate for him to slow down other bicyclists?

    3. Re:One problem. by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Which the drivers should pay for because they are the ones who benefit from getting bicycles out of their way!

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    4. Re:One problem. by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      He inadvertently supported the other side.

      No he only inadvertently supported 1% of the other side. The problem with saying that this supports the argument that people should be able to pay for access ignores the sheer number who will feel ripped off for doing so.

    5. Re:One problem. by Known+Nutter · · Score: 2

      Violence.

      The perfect response to a non-violent protest.

      --
      Beware of the Leopard.
    6. Re:One problem. by murdocj · · Score: 1

      No. Think. He's pointing out that allowing the carrier to artificially slow down traffic is a really bad idea.

    7. Re:One problem. by DriedClexler · · Score: 1

      Agreed -- he's not "giving them a taste of their own medicine". Their own medicine is "it's okay to treat some packets differently". His bicycle is throttling everyone *the same*, with no discrimination, which is 100% consistent with net neutrality!

      (Not all malicious ISP practices violate NN. For example, throttling everyone to 1 KB/sec doesn't.)

      --
      Information theory is life. The rest is just the KL divergence.
    8. Re:One problem. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, because HE is not the carrier. He's the bandwidth hog that's interfering with everyone else. He's the one with the shit connection that's messing up the wireless for everyone else.

    9. Re:One problem. by nmb3000 · · Score: 1

      By impeding everyone else's "bandwidth" on his bicycle, he made the point that someone should have the power to move him out of the higher-speed lanes and into a lower-priority one.

      Net Neutrality has absolutely nothing to do with quality of service type traffic prioritization. The only people who conflate the two issues are either ignorant or intentionally misleading people.

      In this scenario, the cyclist was in the position of the ISP. The road is the Internet connection the consumers and content providers (drivers) have already paid to access. He was artificially slowing them down unless they paid to go faster, just like Comcast has already done to BitTorrent users and Netflix.

      His protest was simplistic but not wrong.

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    10. Re:One problem. by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      Violence. The perfect response to a non-violent protest.

      Forcefully and physically blocking someone is violence.

      What would he have done if someone forcefully and physically prevented him from performing his stunt?

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    11. Re: One problem. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      He might have been - I don't know about the specifics of state law, but there's usually some version of 'obstructing traffic' that can be used.

    12. Re: One problem. by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      Those are some nice, shiny jack boots you've got there.

    13. Re: One problem. by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      I thought the United-States-of-American Way was Shoot first, think never.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    14. Re:One problem. by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      It would have been more appropriate for him to use a car to slow down other cars. Using a van would have been better and would have given him a much larger surface to put a much larger sign which would have been readable from the car behind him. Just slow down in front of the FCC building block, then loop around and repeat all day.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  4. I do not approve of or condone his actions by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As an avid cyclist myself, I neither approve of, nor condone the actions of Rob Bliss in this instance. It further damages the already bad reputation of cyclists everywhere, and we cyclists don't need any more bad press.

    That having been said: I'm a firm supporter of Net Neutrality, and while there is humor in this stunt, breaking the law and creating a hazardous situation for both himself and the drivers he inconvenienced is not cool at all and just as likely convinced some people who don't even know what Net Neutrality is, that advocates of it are just lunatics. So I say "no thanks!" to this Rob Bliss, he's probably just made matters worse for both cyclists and for the case for Net Neutrality.

    I encourage cyclists at every level to obey the same traffic laws that motor vehicles are bound to, and to ride safely in all circumstances. Lead by example.

    I also encourage all advocates of Net Neutrality to make themselves heard whenever possible, and to educate those around them who do not understand what's at stake -- but to do it in a reasonable, rational, and lawful manner.

    1. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yep, this probably just ticked people off. I get and agree with his overall message, and yes, there's a problem when politicians care more about kissing corporate ass for future kickbacks than what we the people want and should have, but still, illegally blocking the road isn't the best way to convince anyone.

    2. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      So...only block Ajit Pai's vehicle.

    3. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      its a protest... nobody asked for your condemnation or acceptance.
      if anything this makes me relate to a bicyclist in a positive way.

    4. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Moof123 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So protest, but don't make any noise or inconvenience anyone. Definitely never protest on a bicycle Got it.

      People politely filed millions of protests through proper channels and got nowhere. So at what point in the breakdown of institutions will it become OK to inconvenience people to get some of our rights back?

    5. Re: I do not approve of or condone his actions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Even if you are quiet and inconvenience no one people will still find a reason to criticize your form of protest. Even after you meet with veterans to find a respectful compromise people will still criticize you.

      Just ask NFL players.

    6. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by blind+biker · · Score: 5, Informative

      It further damages the already bad reputation of cyclists everywhere

      Hold on a fucking second: "everywhere"? And "further"? That may be the case in the US where car reigns supreme, but here in Finland (and other nordic countries, Germany, Austria etc.) cyclists have a fine reputation.

      --
      "The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
    7. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Sure, and I'd almost wish I lived there. :-)

    8. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by tepples · · Score: 1

      You want 'net neutrality' you have the option to start your own company

      Not when cities impose unreasonable conditions on access to rights of way.

    9. Re: I do not approve of or condone his actions by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Exaclty, precisely THIS. Next time use your login instead of being an AC because you're right and should be proud to say what you said, and THANK YOU for you support.

    10. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Listen, Euro-friend, now that I have more time to write:
      I'm more concerned with people here in the U.S., not Europe. I know damned well that pretty much anywhere in Europe, I'd be treated with orders of magnitude more respect, as a cyclist, than I am here in the U.S.. So I'm really speaking to U.S. readers, not EU readers, okay? By the way anti-cyclist types here in the U.S. don't care if it's EU cyclists or U.S. cyclists, they're haters one way or another.

    11. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Thank you for injecting some intelligence into what's otherwise more-or-less a bunch of knee-jerk reactions from people regarding my post.

    12. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Trollolololo

      Go back to 4chan.

    13. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Buddy, I can just hear you thinking the word "cager" as I read your comment. Take it down a notch already. It's not as bad as you think it is, and frankly people who think like you are as likely as not to be contributing to the problems cyclists face as not.

    14. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      You desperately want to use the word 'cager' don't you? Please, chill the fuck out, okay? Not anywhere near as bad as you think it is.

    15. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Post using your actual login instead of as AC and maybe we'll have a real conversation about that, otherwise STFU and GTFO.

    16. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Cycling is freedom, no drivers license no license plate"

      Forced helmet laws, forced lighting laws, yea you sure the fuck are free, aren't you?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    17. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by PPH · · Score: 1

      You damned well better not throw my tea into the Boston harbor!

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    18. Re: I do not approve of or condone his actions by twocows · · Score: 1

      Yeah, we all know pissing off everyone around you including those who are undecided and those on your side is a great way to win support. While we're at it, why not think of other ways to inconvenience people and drive them away from your side? How about a sit-in at the local free clinic? Or perhaps you'd like to show your support for net neutrality by smearing cow manure over your local post office?

      It's pretty ironic you're accusing GP of virtue signalling when that's about all this stunt accomplished outside of, as he said, making people who were unaware of or undecided on the issue think our side is full of assholes. This was so short-sighted and had such terrible optics that I suspect it's entirely possible this guy was getting paid by opponents of NN on the DL.

    19. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by twocows · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between inconveniencing the people causing the problem and inconveniencing people who have nothing to do with the problem. One is an expected reaction to a bad situation, the other makes you look like a complete asshole to anyone who wasn't already on your side. And even some of them will probably think you're an asshole.

    20. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by dfm3 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'll provide a little context, as someone from the US who used to ride a bike to work every day. The "bad reputation" that cyclists get in this country is due in large part to three factors:

      1) Our car culture means that outside of urban areas and college campuses, riding a bike for your daily commute is generally looked down upon. A common attitude is... why ride for 30 minutes when you can drive less than 10 and arrive to work without breaking a sweat? Clearly if you had enough money and prestige, you'd buy a car.

      2) When it comes to infrastructure planning in suburbs and rural areas, bikes are generally left out of the picture, so it's uncommon to see things like dedicated bike lanes or even a place to lock up your bike at your destination. Our state senator even went on the record as saying that he strongly opposes spending any money to build greenways or bike lanes, because he feels that funds would be better spent on roads that carry vehicles full of goods which, apparently, boost commerce. This means that more bikes are forced onto lanes shared by cars.

      3) Quite a few recreational cyclists have taken the mantra "share the road" to such an extreme that they feel their right to ride on the roadways means that they're entitled to act like complete assholes to car drivers. This means doing things like intentionally impeding traffic by riding in the center of the lane in the name of "safety" (that car might hit you as it passes, so be sure it doesn't get a chance to), blowing through stop signs and traffic lights (you can't let that red light slow down your cadence), and refusing to use pullout lanes where they are available (because god forbid you have to stop and unclip while you wait for all that piled up traffic to go by). Now, I'm into road cycling myself, and I can say that it's only a very small percentage of cyclists who act this way, but the actions of a few give a reputation to the whole bunch.

    21. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      That may be the case in the US where car reigns supreme, but here in Finland

      Is Finland's FCC also putting the onus for net neutrality regulation on Finland's congress or FTC? Wow, an amazing coincidence.

      I think it's probably clear he was talking about the US.

      The US has a wondeful history with bike riders staging stunts that make everyone hate them. (Not everyone, but "most people", and by "people" I mean "people in the US metropolitan areas".) There are examples of such nonsense where bike riders deliberately block bridges and keep emergency vehicles like ambulances from being able to get where they need to be. Portland Oregon, for one city where this happened at least once.

      It is such a productive demonstration technique to create traffic jams and impede rescue vehicles for everyone when you are upset that the city government hasn't provided enough bike lanes for you. You piss off everyone (same caveat) who cannot help you, and then they don't want to even if they could.

      Keep in mind, many of the bike riders are starting from a negative view of their practices because many of them will simply ride through a crosswalk filled with pedestrians, ignoring the stop signs or other traffic control, because "bikes don't need to stop". I've gotten almost hit too many times to ever think bike riders are sane or rational or safe.

    22. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      2) When it comes to infrastructure planning in suburbs and rural areas, bikes are generally left out of the picture, so it's uncommon to see things like dedicated bike lanes or even a place to lock up your bike at your destination.

      When such infrastructure planning does happen, bikers often paint themselves in a negative light by demanding outrageous concessions. For example, our county was working on a bike path to connect us to the next city over. I agree that one is probably necessary, but I could not support the bikers demands that their bike path be taken out of the middle of actively farmed acreage, cutting farms in half and putting bike riders very close to active farm machinery. The vocal minority of selfish bikers cost them all a lot of support from the middle.

      We also had a demonstration of how much bikers care about others on campus here, where bike riders were quite adamant that they must have locked bike containers to keep their bikes in, and those containers could not be installed close to existing bike parking because. Because they needed to be installed in the middle of a very short supply of car parking spaces. There were half a dozen already concreted areas (unused by anyone) near existing bike racks (and lots of completely unused bike racks, too), but the containers could not go there. The issue resolved itself the usual way parking does here -- the campus parking service organization removed the bike containers as they were removing the parking to let a new building be built. Now nobody parks there.

      Rural areas don't put in that infrastructure in some cases because putting a paved bike lane on some rural roads would mean that the only part of the road that is paved is the bike lane. It costs a lot to do that, with a low density of users.

    23. Re: I do not approve of or condone his actions by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      Does the NGO still pay you just $0.25 every time you post the word "faggot" on Slashdot?

    24. Re: I do not approve of or condone his actions by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

      Go back to Reddit.

    25. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      This means doing things like intentionally impeding traffic by riding in the center of the lane in the name of "safety" (that car might hit you as it passes, so be sure it doesn't get a chance to)

      That's an interesting one that I do myself when I approach a roundabout. Or at least I used to. Now I live in a country where drivers don't have a little penis problem and generally even when I don't block the lane in the name of safety I don't feel unsafe.

      Incidentally I'm not sure what the law is like where you are but in the state in Australia where I used to live (and where people have a similar attitude to cyclists and cars as Americans) the law was definitely on my side, and I'll never forget the douchebag who decided to half overtake then shove me off the road with his car ... while a police car was driving behind him.

      The problem is a lot of car drivers think because they drive the bigger thing that some of the laws don't apply to them. Including the right to cycle two abreast on a multi-lane road, and my personal "darwin award law" to turn right from the left hand lane of a roundabout. Definitely a car person decided that law was a good idea.

    26. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I drive a car too, and I don't think drivers are "cagers".

      In fact the group of people most qualified to give an opinion on how bikes and cars should interact is probably people who both drive and bike regularly.

      Drivers who drive exclusively are the least qualified. I say put them on a bike for two weeks and you'll start to see that they will stop blindly complying with the rules because they don't make sense for a bike.

      Like I said in my comment above, I am not antagonistic to drivers and I try to be polite and courteous to all users of the road.

      However I do blow stop signs, run reds ride on the sidewalk (and more!) because I can and I don't apologise for it.

      Next thing you know people will be saying: "Skateboards are vehicles! You must come to a complete stop at stop signs and put your foot down while on a skateboard!"

    27. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      The problem is a lot of car drivers think because they drive the bigger thing that some of the laws don't apply to them.

      I've see a lot more bike riders who believe that because they "drive" the smaller thing that the laws don't apply to them. For example, "it's too inconvenient to have to stop for pedestrians in a marked crosswalk because we lose our momentum and they can move out of the way more easily than we can." And don't even think about stop signs.

    28. Re:I do not approve of or condone his actions by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I agree, and let's both agree to say fuck those people.

  5. if this was NYC by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1, Funny

    we would just ride over the idiot on the bike and at the minimum his cones. we already broke a lot of the bike lane dividers the city put up cause they are in our way

    1. Re:if this was NYC by ph0rk · · Score: 1

      Which is why he should have used spike strips instead of cones and a tank instead of a bicycle.

      Suck it, non tank-drivers.

      --
      semantics are everything!
  6. Excellent action by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    Remember, the most productive and efficient US states are passing laws to require Net Neutrality for all ISPs operating in their states, so even if the Feds don't take action, your state can force those doing business in their state to have full Net Neutrality if they want to have customers where you live.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    1. Re:Excellent action by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Because the states ain't dumb. They know exactly that there are no borders on the internet, and companies will go to whatever state offers them the best conditions for their business.

      Killing net neutrality will only accomplish one thing: Places that don't take action themselves and implement it on a state level become noncompetitive.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Excellent action by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      And yet we see the exact opposite. The states which are legally requiring Net Neutrality have most of the US GDP and their economy grows faster than the rest of the USA. Objective fact tells us that.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    3. Re:Excellent action by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      It's Montana (leading the way) , NY and Cali as of now. I'd expect Washington State to follow soon.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  7. Protest at the ISPs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    One good way to protest is to speak very slowly to the CSRs on the phone. They get evaluated on their call times.

    Offer to speak faster for a discount equal to their "fast lane" fee.

  8. Publicity stunt - not a protest. by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 1

    A protest would be many bikers going slow all through town with picket signs. This is just one guy diverting traffic without a permit to grab attention for um, it looks like himself?

    Without a working paid fast lane, all he's proving is that one dick hogging all the bandwidth for himself slows down the whole neighborhood.

    He's not even on topic - going to a starbucks and slowing down their WiFi would have made a better point.

  9. Back to pre-2015 by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

    So, to protest the repeal of the executive actions in 2015 that created Net neutrality, he's blocking fast traffic to show how bad it was prior to 2015, when there was no Net neutrality. Right? You mean we didn't pay for faster access to some sites, just for overall speed of the tube connected to the home?

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    1. Re:Back to pre-2015 by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

      Care to link to that pre-2015 traffic blocking/throttling based upon site visited? We have lots of banned sites - but Net neutrality does nothing about that. Twitter, Facebook, ISPs could choose which customers/users they want, before AND after the 2015 executive action.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  10. Meh by burtosis · · Score: 1

    A bit too much publicity stunt in it for my taste as well. Someone should encourage the monopoly man protester to come up with something.

  11. Net Neutrality in a nutshell by Jarwulf · · Score: 2

    ISps as gatekeepers==BAD Upstream monopolies like Google/Yahoo/Microsoft etc as gatekeeper==no big deal.

    1. Re:Net Neutrality in a nutshell by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Both are bad. Adding a second gatekeeper just means two gatekeepers in my way. Let's by all means deal with upsteam monopolies as well!

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
  12. Re:Bicycle socialists by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Funny

    Slowing down the economy

    How does making government employees late to work "slow down the economy"?

    It seems to me it would have the opposite effect.

  13. Re:Sign up here by ravenshrike · · Score: 1

    It's cute how you think the so-called czars are elected.

  14. Re:Concern Trolls are Jackasses by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

    Did he inform the department of transportation and the local LEOs/Highway Patrol for that area that he was going to single-handedly block traffic? Did his actions reflect positively on cyclists, or did it just highlight the predominant American viewpoint that that cyclists are all entitled jerks who think the rules of the road don't apply to them?

    These United States was birthed on the principle that Civil Disobedience is The Way To Get Things Done and I support that 9001% (*** FUCK THE POLICE ***) -- but this wasn't Martin Luther King leading thousands of blacks in a march for Civil Rights, it was ONE GUY ON A BIKE protesting something about Net Neutrality, and doing it in a way that, IN MY OPINION makes both Net Neutrality advocates and cyclist alike look like IDIOTS.

    I stand behind my words 100% and if you or anybody else doesn't like that then you can shove it up your ass.

    You want to organize a Net Neutrality support rally/march? I AM THERE. This jackass? Not so much. DEAL WITH IT.

  15. Re: Bicycle socialists by RightwingNutjob · · Score: 1

    Touche

  16. Re:Why on a bike...ugh!!! by KBentley57 · · Score: 2

    Please, Tell us how you really feel.

  17. Franchise requiring day one citywide service by tepples · · Score: 1

    Yeah! Unreasonable! It's outright fascist to require that a new franchisee agree to the same franchise conditions that all of the existing franchisees did!

    Except that's not always the case. Though exclusive franchises are forbidden, I seem to remember reading that some franchise conditions require competitive providers to offer service to all addresses in a city from day one rather than rolling out service gradually from one end of the city to the other. That's too large of a capital investment for a smaller company to handle in any practical way that I'm aware of. And though all new franchisees in 2018 must agree to a particular set of conditions, these conditions may have differed in 1918 (or whenever) when the phone company first laid its copper.

    Companies that need franchises (and not all ISPs do; many do not)

    In the era of U.S. phone and cable line owners refusing to lease out their lines to competitive ISPs, how can an ISP work without a franchise? A wired ISP needs some access to rights of way, and the only way I can see to arrange that is to negotiate with a city.

    1. Re:Franchise requiring day one citywide service by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Except that's not always the case.

      It's federal law. Find a case and report it.

      I seem to remember reading that some franchise conditions require competitive providers to offer service to all addresses in a city from day one rather than rolling out service gradually from one end of the city to the other.

      They can't do that, because they didn't require that from any of the incumbents. No franchise contains such a requirement. It may require a timetable for system buildout so that service will eventually be provided to everyone in the franchise area. Why is this a bad thing? You want to run an ISP in our city with access to all of the rights of way, then you need to run an ISP in the city. Not just cherry pick high density high income areas.

      And though all new franchisees in 2018 must agree to a particular set of conditions, these conditions may have differed in 1918

      There were no such franchises in 1918, and nobody gives a fuck what was being done in 1918 because any possible franchise that did exist then has long, long, long expired. Long ago.

      Companies that need franchises (and not all ISPs do; many do not)

      In the era of U.S. phone and cable line owners refusing to lease out their lines to competitive ISPs, how can an ISP work without a franchise?

      By not using the phone or cable lines? That seems obvious to me. The medium does not define the service.

      A wired ISP needs some access to rights of way,

      Interesting use of adjective, admitting that not all ISPs are "wired". If you want to run a wired ISP, get a franchise. If you don't want to get a franchise, do it without access to the rights of way. Funny how many ISPs seem to be all around, given the limited ability to get franchises or work without them.

      Please explain how Level 3, for example, can provide ISP services without having to run their wires past every house. It's not a requirement to do that to be an ISP.

    2. Re:Franchise requiring day one citywide service by thesupraman · · Score: 1

      How cute, a supporter of regulatory capture.

      I do hope you enjoy it when you cannot afford the cancer drug you need to cure you, because the regulated single source of what is a combination of generic drugs has been given a government mandate to charge what they damn well please.

      I hope you enjoy it when a loved ones newborn that arrived a bit early cannot have a full incubator because the manufacturers have got a long line of specific requirements in place that only they can meet (thanks to patent protections) which dont actually increase the effectiveness of the device, but are 'mandated'.

      And no, regulatory capture is IN NO WAY about a level playing field, or anything positive for consumers. It is how large incumbent players protect their patch by making the cost of entry higher than the reward of entry, often with the help of a few well placed 'investments' in government back pockets.

    3. Re:Franchise requiring day one citywide service by tepples · · Score: 1

      No franchise contains such a requirement [for day one citywide service]. It may require a timetable for system buildout so that service will eventually be provided to everyone in the franchise area.

      Then I guess I must have misremembered "day one". It might have just been that the city in question required a buildout timetable that was impractically rapid for a smaller company or a nonprofit cooperative.

      You want to run an ISP in our city with access to all of the rights of way, then you need to run an ISP in the city. Not just cherry pick high density high income areas.

      I understand this intent. A competitive ISP could satisfy its spirit by ensuring an even mix of high- and low-income areas during each phase of its buildout plan, even if said plan is gradual. It just gets low-key monopolistic if a city requires overly rapid buildout despite this concession.

      nobody gives a fuck what was being done in 1918 because any possible franchise that did exist then has long, long, long expired.

      My point is that since the existing phone and cable networks were built out, cities are likely to have 1. annexed more square miles to serve within the city's corporate limits, and 2. revised their buildout timetable requirements to be more rapid. But because the existing networks had already been built out, this change did not affect the incumbent providers.

      By not using the phone or cable lines?

      Other than wires or radio frequency, over what last mile were you considering?

      The medium does not define the service.

      Yes it does. Wireless service has less aggregate bandwidth than wired service for two reasons: there's no separate waveguide per neighborhood, and there's no separate waveguide per carrier. Otherwise satellite and cellular (including MVNOs) wouldn't have single to low double digit GB per month caps. A plan with such a cap is unsuitable for high-volume downloads, such as downloads of purchased movies and video games or even operating system updates for the desktop computers, laptop computers, tablet computers, and smartphones belonging to multiple members of a household. (I'm defining "cap" broadly as a data transfer quota exceeding which results in termination for the month, overage fees, or severe throughput restriction.)

      Funny how many ISPs seem to be all around, given the limited ability to get franchises or work without them.

      Which U.S. ISPs might these be, in areas with more than two ISPs? How many of them are MVNOs, that is, cellular ISPs leasing Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, or T-Mobile frequencies, which end up charging so much per gigabyte that the price of transfer quota for a single AAA game download on Steam exceeds the game's selling price?

      Please explain how Level 3, for example, can provide ISP services without having to run their wires past every house.

      In comments to stories about net neutrality, the otherwise unmarked term "ISP" most often refers to residential last mile ISPs. To my knowledge, Level 3 does not claim to operate as a residential last mile ISP but instead as an ISP's ISP. The service that Level 3 provides is not a relevant substitute for the service that a residential last mile ISP provides.

    4. Re:Franchise requiring day one citywide service by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Other than wires or radio frequency, over what last mile were you considering?

      You seem to admit that you know that wires passing every home in the city is not the only way of getting internet, and but then ignore that those other methods don't need phone or cable tv wires.

      The medium does not define the service.

      Yes it does.

      The "medium" means what the physical delivery method is. "The service" means "internet service." The medium does not define the service.

      I know it's complicated. It's hard to separate "Cable TV" from "Internet", in large part because the cable TV companies want you to conflate the two and always get both from them. The telco wants you conflate their phone service and internet, too. But truly, ISP (the service) is not defined by the medium (does it show up by cable TV wire or anything else) but by the fact that it is internet service.

      You need to learn to separate the two concepts. Saying "ISP" does not imply "Cable TV", nor does it imply "DSL", nor does it imply any other specific medium.

      A plan with such a cap is unsuitable for high-volume downloads,

      It is still internet service, and it is quite suitable for many people. The fact that it may not be sufficient for your needs doesn't mean it isn't internet service.

      Which U.S. ISPs might these be, in areas with more than two ISPs?

      Look them up for yourself. I did when we were discussing the Colorado city that thought they needed to compete against the "more than 8" ISPs that were already operating in their town. If you recall, I say "more than 8" because I counted 8 that provided residential service, 8 that were business oriented, and the list was not the same. Level 3, for example, was not listed for residential.

      How many of them are MVNOs, that is, cellular ISPs leasing Verizon, Sprint, AT&T, or T-Mobile frequencies

      I wasn't talking about cellular telephone service.

      Please explain how Level 3, for example, can provide ISP services without having to run their wires past every house.

      In comments to stories about net neutrality, the otherwise unmarked term "ISP" most often refers to residential last mile ISPs.

      In other words, you cannot explain it, and instead want to deflect the question. You are still trying to define "ISP" by the medium and not the service. "Well, when we say ISP we don't mean anything but DSL from the telco or cable internet from the cable company." Yeah, ok, but that's myopic.

      To my knowledge, Level 3 does not claim to operate as a residential last mile ISP but instead as an ISP's ISP.

      Level 3 is a business service oriented ISP. It is an ISP.

      The service that Level 3 provides is not a relevant substitute for the service that a residential last mile ISP provides.

      Of course it is a relevant substitute. It's even better service than what you can get from the telco using DSL or cable company. You can't claim that it isn't good enough for your exacting standards.

    5. Re:Franchise requiring day one citywide service by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      How cute, a supporter of regulatory capture.

      This has nothing to do with regulatory capture, and your "think of the children" argument is actually pretty funny in this context.

  18. Re:Bicycle socialists by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

    How does making government employees late to work "slow down the economy"?

    Because they'll miss their 8:30, 9:00, 9:30, and maybe 10:00 AM coffee breaks and Starbucks stock will crash.

  19. Re: Why on a bike...ugh!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The only place you need to be driving to is to get your script for meds filled.

  20. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  21. got 1024 lanes here by mtaht · · Score: 1

    This algorithm enables the little guy, and is eventually fair to all. https://tools.ietf.org/html/rf...

  22. Not in Germany by pablo_max · · Score: 1

    I would disagree with you inclusion of Germany. In fact, we hate you smug cycling mother fuckers. There are perfectly serviceable cycling lanes, but no... you fucking assholes need to ride your bike right, smack dab in the middle of the car lane. Not even off the side, but right in the middle. Forcing traffic into oncoming cars and putting everyone in danger because of these selfish m-f'ers who think they have the same rights as a car.

    In most places, roads are mainly paid for from petrol taxes. If you are not using petrol, then you are driving on our roads without contributing to their upkeep. This means you should not have the same rights as a car.

    At least in the US they "mainly" stick to the bike lanes. Fuck.. I hate cyclist in Germany.

  23. Re: Why on a bike...ugh!!! by Reverend+Green · · Score: 1

    Bicycles and tire traffic don't mix well. That's why cities need to build buffered or fully separated bike lanes.

    Also - rest assured the average bicycle commuter has at least as dim a view of motorists as you have of cyclists.

  24. Protest like that is good only as a quick demo. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    I made a mistake in recommending the protest in my comment above: I'd like to see more protests this relevant.

    It seemed to me that the protest might be appropriate for a 1 hour demonstration. I agree with others who would not like traffic to be slowed during rush hour.

    As I said before: "Cities and counties should own and lease dark fiber. The Internet is a necessary public utility, like water, electricity, natural gas, sewage, and trash pickup." And, I should have said, road maintenance.

    The protest initially seemed to me to help make the valid point that the Internet is "a necessary public utility". But, to be sensible, it would need to be done in a way that minimizes hassles and maximizes public awareness.

  25. Re: Why on a bike...ugh!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Bicycles and tire traffic don't mix well.

    Well, if your bicycle has no tires, I'm not surprised you are holding up traffic.

  26. Re:Why on a bike...ugh!!! by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 2

    Hello, counselor Deanna Troi.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  27. I disagree with this actually... by morethanapapercert · · Score: 1
    I don't think this is an effective way to protest. Sure it gets on the news, but we've seen that certain members of the FCC really don't pay attention to public opinion. All it really achieves is inconveniencing members of the general public, and most of them support net neutrality already.

    Ajit Pai's home address is already known to the public, so this deliberate slow down of traffic could have and, I'd argue, should have occurred outside his own home. Slow down his commute to work unless he agrees to pay an extra toll on top of the gas, tire and municipal taxes he is paying to support road infrastructure. (but we must maintain our own integrity, if we manage to get him to cough up money, those funds in their entirety should be handed over to the local city works department.

    Second, he is a lawyer and most likely in good standing with the bar association of D.C. and/or Virginia. His actions certainly appear to be in direct conflict with the public interest, a critical ethical standard for any attorney working as a public servant. Write letters to the Bar Association protesting his unethical actions and request (not demand, the Bar is only a quasi public body being a mandatory but still private corporate entity in D.C. and many States) that he be called before their ethics board to explain and/or defend his actions. A casual review of the D.C. Bar rules of professional conduct mention several areas where Mr Pai may have violated his professional and fiduciary duties. But I'm not a barrister or solicitor, so I can't say with any degree of certainty.

    --
    I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
  28. net neutrality = false problem/argument by jbroom · · Score: 1

    disclaimer: I've been on the provider side for 25 years.

    I really see all this hoopla about net neutrality as a non-argument.
    On the one hand, I can't see how legislation can effectively either impede it or enforce it, but on the other, I don't see why it should be prohibited either.
    Yes, as a quick knee-jerk argument for pro civil liberties evangelisation, claiming that all data should be treated equal and bla-bla-bla, sounds good...
    *HOWEVER* it's a waste of time/energy to somehow want to legislate it.

    Unless I've got things wrong (don't just give the easy answer of "yes, you're wrong", give arguments that counter my long-winded discourse below), it's a question of economics/logic. Privately funded/owned network providers are NOT there to provide a charitable service, but to earn money. They will want to tap into as much money as possible for as little cost/hassle as possible. The same goes on the consumer side. They are not there to "charitably" fund the providers, but to obtain as good a service as they can get for as little money/hassle they can.

    So we get to a supply & demand situation.

    If we're in a monopolistic situation, then YES legislate until you go blue on what the quality of service should be, how the provider should treat your data streams, what's the minimum speed etc...

    However, in a competitive environment, as a PROVIDER I *want* the other providers to start messing around and purposely slowing all traffic for all of their users for no apparent reason (unless they pay for the additional "upgraded bandwidth" option), because then that creates a lovely market opportunity for ME to provide faster service at cheaper rates.

    Doing a non-neutrality action is basically applying QOS using whatever rules I wish to define. Applying QOS can be either for technical reasons or for commercial reasons.

    Technical reasons are easy to understand: generally it's because there's not enough bandwidth available to meet the demand, hence I either to let it all just "battle it out", upgrade my bandwidth, or decide pro-actively to guarantee/throttle certain flows
    Let's have a look at the options:
    -let it all "battle it out" means that certain types of traffic will just be unusable (video, voip), that certain types of users who can play with their settings will gain an unfair upper hand over others, and I just can't guarantee service levels, meaning crappy for everyone, with NO option to get a better service by paying more.
    -upgrading my infrastructure bandwidth (which supposes that I've left it battling it out, and upgrade when the fighting starts), although nice, has a cost involved meaning I have to see if I can actually afford it and if it's worth it (should I leave them all at crappy service, and keep higher profit margins -caveat:see below -, or can I afford the bandwidth upgrades).
    -QOS: If we accept that I won't always have the economical possibility/justification to upgrade all the way to COMPLETELY decongest ALL of my infrastructure at ALL levels, then just letting all traffic fight it out is actually bad business practice. I *WANT* to make sure that VoIP and realtime video can get through with a guarantee and with as little latency/dropping as possible. If I have residential users with a FTTH 1Gbp link paying $50/month, with CONTRACTUALLY no (or small) bandwidth guarantees, and a series of professional (or residential) customers who want to subscribe to a GUARANTEED 100Mbps up/down service for (for example) $500/month, then I want to be able to provide "best effort" quality to my residential users and GUARANTEE the 100Mbps to the others. I want to be able as a provider to be able to provide different service levels. I can't do that if it's a "just fight it out" situation.

    Being responsible, as my infrastructure starts to near capacity, I SHOULD have a good understanding of what it is that is "killing" my links, and it should be up to me to decide if I want to throttle it or not, based on both economic and commercial reasons.
    If I've seen tha

  29. Low-volume and business not adequate substitutes by tepples · · Score: 1

    "The service" means "internet service."

    That would be relevant if all Internet services were adequate substitutes for one another. But they are not. In particular, many forms of Internet service are not adequate substitutes for high-volume home Internet service.

    You are correct that telephone service and Internet service are not the same thing. But the same companies that own the spectrum used for cellular telephone service also own the spectrum used for cellular Internet service and vice versa. Thus in addition to being providers of cellular telephone service, Verizon Wireless, Sprint, AT&T, and T-Mobile are also providers of cellular Internet service, as are MVNOs who sublet their frequencies. Because of the medium's properties, the medium can support only low-volume Internet service.

    You are correct that wireless Internet service is Internet service. But because wireless Internet service is low-volume Internet service, it is not an adequate substitute for high-volume Internet service for those residential users whose use cases require high-volume Internet service.

    You are correct that business Internet service is Internet service. But it is not an adequate substitute for residential service because I doubt that most users of Internet service are willing to drive to a business location every time they want to use Internet service.

    You are further correct that cable and DSL are not the only physical media through which to provide high-volume home Internet service. A third wired medium for high-volume home Internet service in parallel to those two is possible in theory. But the discussion was about cities making deployment of such a parallel medium prohibitively difficult in practice.

  30. Effectiveness by MoralCharacter · · Score: 1

    Without the news coverage, I'd have to question the effectiveness of this kind of protest. If you're cutting the lanes down to just one, the guy immediately behind your bike is going to get the full impact of your protest too.

    Every other car behind the first is just going to think the car in front is being an ass and won't see anything in regards to your protest.