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Detroit Quietly Bans Airbnb (curbed.com)
A new zoning ordinance that quietly went into effect this week has residents trying to figure out what comes next for Airbnb's presence in Detroit. Many hosts have received notices that the city has outlawed Airbnb for R1 and R2 zoning. Curbed Detroit reports: The new zoning ordinance apparently went through the Planning Commission and City Council in 2017, and went into effect this week. The text added to the amendment states: "Use of a dwelling to accommodate paid overnight guests is prohibited as a home occupation; notwithstanding this regulation, public accommodations, including bed and breakfast inns outside the R1 and R2 Districts, are permitted as provided in Sec. 61-12-46 of this Code." The vast majority of Airbnb units in Detroit are in R1 and R2 districts. These do not include places like lofts, apartments, or larger developments. Airbnb has issued a statement saying: "We're very disappointed by this turn of events. Airbnb has served as an economic engine for middle class Detroiters, many of whom rely on the supplemental income to stay in their homes. We hope that the city listens to our host community and permits home sharing in these residential zones."
for the price of a VCR. No really you can. Not even a 4 head VCR a 2 Head VCR will get you a palace.
Well there goes the big vacation I had planned for beautiful downtown Detroit..
You sure can, unfortunately all the wiring and plumbing has been ripped out and in the process destroyed a significant portion of the house.
Where does the city get the authority to tell people that they are not allowed to rent out their homes?
According to the American theory of governance, a government only has authorities that are delegated to it by The People. Well, nobody in Detroit ever had the authority to dictate whether a private individual could rent out his home, so there's no way that anybody was ever able to delegate to the city such an authority.
Whence comes this authority, I ask. WHENCE?!
It is vital that the poor in Detroit not be permitted to rent rooms for money.
Remember the city government is a kleptocracy, designed to enwealthen the city elders in their fiefdoms. They have police chauffeurs as if they were the President.
(Some irrelevant argument to the real reason) and therefore it cannot be allowed.
Follow the money -- Tried and true wisdom.
It's a sad nation where the population must kneel for permission to do new things.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Glad to see the city is looking out for the less fortunate.
I use AirBNB all the time. Has always worked for me, and my hosts have always been nice, and glad for the chance to make a bit of money. The innovation is making it easy for a traveler to find a place to stay that isn't an expensive hotel or B&B. That they've been pushed out of Detroit at the behest of the hotel industry matters not at all to me. Who would ever voluntarily visit Detroit?
The politicians in Vancouver, BC honestly think airbnb and uber are *sharing* companies. They go on and on about how great ride-sharing and room-sharing will be. I'm pretty sure if you pay for something, it isn't sharing. Even most 5 yo kids get this right, how come politicians can't? I bet these shady and dishonest companies are going to pluck bare the amateur politicians (and the coffers) here.
Wherever will I stay when I visit "The Paris of the Midwest"??? Dearborn???
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Thanks!
I don't like AirBnB. They drive up home prices and contribute to making home ownership unaffordable. They make it practical for investors to 'park' their money into real estate and keep houses off the market. There's a great case to be made for banning them in any competitive housing market
But isn't Detroit the furthest thing from a competitive housing market? Then again, while a lot of the city is in ruins for all I know the number of actual livable houses might be smaller. Lord knows nobody's going to build there.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I am actually curious: who is this type of ruling help?
I don't mean in terms of business interests and lobbying. This obviously makes sense for hotel and motel chains, but why in the world would you -- as a government -- go out of your way to block someone from making money from their own property using something that theoretically is not hurting their neighbors and the city (it enables them to bring in more people!)?
On one hand, I could see Airbnb getting out of hand by someone incredibly wealthy side-stepping zoning restrictions and setting up a de facto hotel, but you could prosecute someone at that scale for running a hotel without proper licensing using existing laws. They could have easily established a rule where you cannot do this until you become a registered and licensed bed and breakfast to house a certain number of paid guests. But, come on, one guest in your spare bedroom is too far?
This type of heavy-handed governance in a notoriously poor and corrupt city just makes it even less likely that I would ever consider visiting, let alone moving to there. This is yet another example of a liberal city with a money problem making their own problems worse and their citizen's lives worse by giving into some sort of money pandering. This is the ugly side of big government.
Leaving aside any other issues, are they really calling AirBnB "home sharing"?
Renting out a property is "home sharing" in the same way Uber is "ride sharing" - ie not at all. You're not sharing a home, you're short-term renting a space, typically a property.
Weasel wording like x-sharing inevitably starts ringing alarms about the business concerned.
Blame Quicken Mortgage Loans. They literally own Downtown Detroit.
I bet heavy money that they orchestrated this.
http://www.mlive.com/business/...
Slashdot Valentines Beta Massacre: iT WORKED! The boycotts killed Beta!!
What problem were they trying to solve? I don't get why they would bother to ban something that wasn't a problem... so what problems were being solved here? It just seems like the summary, and also the referenced article is phrased in a one sided way, or perhaps it really is one sided and this is the result of AirBNB refusing to pay a bribe?
Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
AirBNB did nothing as far as "making it easy" - craigslist existed in the same capacity since forever. AirBNB did exactly zero actual vetting until forced to by local regulation. Horror stories continue, and your neighbors likely hate you.
Congrats.
I have visited Detroit 3 or 4 times, it's actually a really cool old town. Cheap as hell now too. If it weren't for the greedy shortsighted lying Republican efforts to reduce water standards, I might be tempted to live somewhere other than California.
I'm glad you made a little money though, renting out your underwear drawer to strangers. Good for you. Golf clap.
For absentee landlords trying to run a hotel without having to obey any commercial regulations for safety, health and sanitation, guest control to prevent illegal or nuisance behavior, etc.
Detroit has 31,000 empty houses. Wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy a house to stay in for a few days and burn it down or something when you're done with it?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Better known as 318230.
Look, Uber's business model is based on getting around taxi medallion fees. AirBnb's business model is based on getting around hotel taxes. Did you really think municipalities were going to sit still and let you get away with that? Local governments are going to fight tooth-and-nail against anything that cuts into their revenues... and they have the power to revise zoning laws at their whim.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I've never used Airbnb, but I'm a fan of the idea.
And I do think they innovated. When you get down to it, hotels are in the business of selling trust. The hotel chains are a known quantity. People recognize them and know what they're getting, which is why people up to this point have been staying at them instead of in random homes of strangers. Airbnb's innovation was in figuring out how to aggregate trust effectively, allowing them to become the middleman between a vast untapped supply of rooms and the huge number of people looking for something different/cheaper than what the hotels were offering.
Are they perfect? By no means. I don't like that my sleepy, family neighborhood near a major university becomes a crash pad for random sports fans on game weekends, and I'm not alone in that thinking. Even so, that's a problem that is best addressed through covenants and deed restrictions within the neighborhood, rather than legislation across a city or state. Let neighborhoods that care about that sort of thing sort it out amongst themselves.
Say Detroit residents were pulling a million dollars a year into the city economy this way.
That would generate an average of 7 million dollars a year in economic activity.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Wait, wait, I thought that was Cleveland!
(skip to 0:31)
This is a serious question...
Wouldn't this make roommates illegal ?
I mean, I buy a house, I have 2 extra rooms and decide to rent out a room to help with expenses. This would seem to be against this ordinance. Seems petty. Or more likely the result of some back room deals to "protect" the interests of hoteliers.
I've never used AirBNB. Been tempted to, but so far haven't. I have friends that do and they love it. It sure does have a lot of places bent out of shape though.
I wonder if this could be contested on the 5th amendment's no property taken without compensation clause... sure seems like homeowners not allowed to use their property as they wish because of a city ordinance is depriving them of the use of their property and their pursuit of life, liberty, happiness, etc....
I wonder if there's an argument for gov
You're failing to consider second order effects. With sane governments, the increased market will increase the value of apartments, which in turn increases construction, which relaxes the prices. However, when hateful thieves control the government, they don't allow real estate investment, and consequently the prices go up with no ability to create more housing. Banning Air B&B merely prevents renters and owners both from making a bit of cash to compensate for soaring rents.
This passed because our socialist system failed to teach our kids socialism undermines productivity. Our schools were suppose to teach us that socialism doesn't work and to be ready to fight it off at every turn. Those evil communists and all that. The problem is that all the while we were scaring kids about evil communists we were implementing the failed socialist policies of the communists in our socialist school system that we were frowning communist countries of having. Which shouldn't be too surprising given this country has had socialist policies for a very long time. I mean- look- we got failing public schools and we have failing governments implementing failing socialist policies left and right. The idea of a free market is just too hard for our incompetent "educated" socialist society to accept.
I mean, do you just book a ABnB room downtown to have a place to do your crack or heroin after you score?
Doesn't seem to be much else to do in what's left of that city.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Most of them are abandoned boarded up or completely dilapidated houses. Why do you think many of them sell for less than 8K, some of them less than 500 and a not so small proportion even 1$ ? They are all more or less concentrated in some area, it isn't 31K houses over the whole city. And guess how attractive those area are.
I use AirBNB all the time. Has always worked for me, and my hosts have always been nice, ....
I guess you don't have a name that sounds oriental, or Indian, or black.
And FWIW, I'm none of those, and my one and only experience with AirBnB was shitty. After taking my reservation months in advance, including a deposit, the owner backed out at the last minute because all the sudden he was going through a divorce. I had to scramble to book something else at considerably more expense.
Corporate AirBnB's response: oh, that's too bad. Sorry for the inconvenience.
So no thanks. I'm well enough off that a few extra dollars to stay in a real hotel is well worth it.
But now that the price of a house in Detroit has skyrocketed from $1 to almost $100 in some cases, a greater percentage increase than Beverly Hills, the gentrifiers are feeling uppity. No AirBNB in this upscale neighborhood.
I don't know how things are in detroit, but in my country it is standard practice to have a "no subletting" clause, that makes air-bnb illegal for rented houses.
The point is that this does not stop people from using a rented property to serve air-bnb customers. I think the reason it continues to happen is because people are seldom caught, and I think few people could be bothered to pursue the issue.
How are they going to investigate and enforce this law?
Agreed! I mean, who needs clean water!?
Once The Dow finishes plummeting, Detroit will seem like a paradise. Another Obama failure these past two days.
Trump 2020 #MAGA
Yes, Obama is so powerful he can trigger a stock tumble a year after he's left office when the Greatest, Most Edumacated POTUS with all the big words has built it up from nothing. And he caused all those hurricanes, too.
Even so, that's a problem that is best addressed through covenants and deed restrictions within the neighborhood, rather than legislation across a city or state.
It is very hard to solve a problem like that using deed restrictions and covenants. Once it starts happening, how do you get a deed restriction added to prevent it? Who enforces a deed restriction in most neighborhoods, anyway? There is nobody who can.
No, zoning at the city level is the only reasonable solution. Local people, and a local office to apply for zoning variances if you have a good case for a different zone applied to your property.
Let neighborhoods that care about that sort of thing sort it out amongst themselves.
Neighborhoods have no legal authority to sort any of that out. If they try, then they are creating special laws for themselves when they are still part of the city as a whole. We have that issue here where some neighborhoods are unhappy that their public on-street parking is being used by the public. "Oh my", they cry, "I can't park on-street instead of my own driveway because the public are parking in the on-street public parking! Something must be done!"
Stay for the Heroin!
Something on the order of $50+ per night in taxes. The city didn't like the competition apparently.
A good place to get yourself killed.
I could understand if it was New York or San Francisco or something. It seems to me Detroit should be doing everything possible to entice people to visit or travel to it and make a better name for itself. So instead, you take a place most people wouldn't dream of visiting and make it even harder for people to come have a look and possible move there?
Its meltdown is not very surprising with decisions like this.
So you haven't been in the last decade?
No, they're too busy trying to keep the tunnel from collapsing. You know, due to the high economic prowess if the area crushing it. Not the lack of maintenance from being broke .
I guess you don't have a name that sounds oriental, or Indian, or black.
I host a few spare rooms on Airbnb, and none of that matters. It is French people that are the biggest problem. They complain about everything. I had one French woman leave me a two star review because of heavy traffic on the freeway from the airport.
What fucked world are we living in when "middle class" means on the cusp of homelessness?
I'll just leave this here. :)
https://youtu.be/K0ug6U26ep0
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
Airbnb has served as an economic engine for middle class Detroiters, many of whom rely on the supplemental income to stay in their homes.
Airbnb forgot to mention that those middle class Detroiters are generating supplemental income by unilaterally selling the peace and quiet and safety of their neighbors.
Not my underwear drawer. I have traveled for cheap(er) and been hosted by people who live where I'm traveling. You've clearly never used AirBNB if you think Craigslist is equivalent.
Reminds me of Amazon reviews that rate something low because the seller or the shipper screwed up. FFS, that's not applicable to the quality of the product
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
In general, doing business online can often mean dealing with amateurs unwilling or unable to run things smoothly, and maybe the would-be host is an example of that.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Presumably the wiring and plumbing was taken for scrap. Ruining soemthing for a small percentage of junk value is a prime example of destructive criminal behavior. Too bad, since scrapping makes sense as an economic incentive for recycling trash.
I listen to both RIAA and non-RIAA stuff if I like the music, tangential business/politics nonwithstanding.
Noise and location are important in rating a place to stay. Sorry if non Americans are better at using the full range of scale instead of feeling obligated to give 5 stars for adequate service.
1 star=bad, 2 star=adequate, 3 star=good, 4 star=excellent, 5 star=spambot
Even so, that's a problem that is best addressed through covenants and deed restrictions within the neighborhood, rather than legislation across a city or state.
No! Deed restrictions are evil. Once you sell a thing, it should no longer be yours to control, especially if you're dead. All the things you want deed restrictions to control are better handled by a general law which addresses everyone, because in the best case deed restrictions have to be handled on a confusing case-by-case basis where each one has to be argued over. If you want easements, noise limits and so on, these are by far best handled by ordinances.
I do not think that a municipality should have the power to stop people from renting out their houses for parties. I do think that it should have the power to break up or shut down parties which are disruptive to others, whether those people live there or not. I do think there should be a reasonable standard for what is permitted, in terms of noise limits, cutoff times, etc. But finally, I also think that municipalities should provide space for such events at cost if they prohibit them in people's homes. An affordable event center is a useful civic building.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
You do realize just about every major city has good areas and bad areas, right? And really, it doesnt take more than like 30 seconds to simply open airbnb, search for detroit, and see plenty of very nice looking places in very nice looking neighborhoods.
...when the Greatest, Most Edumacated POTUS with all the big words...
Not just big words. He has the best words.
AirBNB did nothing as far as "making it easy" - craigslist existed in the same capacity since forever. AirBNB did exactly zero actual vetting until forced to by local regulation. Horror stories continue, and your neighbors likely hate you.
I built a vacation house knowing that I would want to rent it out for a lot of the time - I just don't have the time to be there enough yet, and I figured I could offset a good chunk of the mortgage.
I started by using craigslist and VRBO; craigslist got me not many enquiries, and no bookings. VRBO got me quite a few enquiries from people who clearly hadn't read my listing, and after lots of emailing I got no bookings. After a month of that, I tried AirBnB, put the listing up on a Sunday, and by Monday evening I had two confirmed bookings. Cancelled VRBO, don't even bother with craigslist anymore. Unlike VRBO, I didn't have to think about how I'd get a check from the guests, it's all handled for me. That was 2 years ago, I've had pushing 30 guests come through and I have no complaints about AirBnB and neither do my neighbors - it's a beach town, there are lots of rentals everywhere.
AirBnB certainly did make it easy - can craigslist control your calendar and handle payments? Set pricing based on that calendar, with weekly discounts? Do they allow you to see reviews of your prospective guests? No. AirBnB, in my book, earns their fee.
This is an example of how monopolies kick the chair out from under themselves and others when they try to seize the market for themselves.
Just drink 'beer''.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Even so, that's a problem that is best addressed through covenants and deed restrictions within the neighborhood, rather than legislation across a city or state.
No! Deed restrictions are evil. Once you sell a thing, it should no longer be yours to control, especially if you're dead. All the things you want deed restrictions to control are better handled by a general law which addresses everyone, because in the best case deed restrictions have to be handled on a confusing case-by-case basis where each one has to be argued over. If you want easements, noise limits and so on, these are by far best handled by ordinances.
I do not think that a municipality should have the power to stop people from renting out their houses for parties. I do think that it should have the power to break up or shut down parties which are disruptive to others, whether those people live there or not. I do think there should be a reasonable standard for what is permitted, in terms of noise limits, cutoff times, etc. But finally, I also think that municipalities should provide space for such events at cost if they prohibit them in people's homes. An affordable event center is a useful civic building.
I think that if you rent out your house for a party and it costs money in street repair or trash cleanup or emergency responce, or policing that YOU should have to pay it. not me through my taxes.
So - I agree, with the caveat that YOU PAY ALL THE COSTS YOU CREATE, that you can do whatever you want with your property. As long as it NEVER AFFECTS ME.
God King Emperor Trump is fine, thanks.
MAGA.
Beautiful, dynamic Detroit attracts floods of tourists from around the world. Travel agents call it the "Paris of the Midwest". And now, these people will have many fewer places to stay in the Motor City. Another case of foolish government officials making things more difficult for small business and for the public in general.
Idiot
AirBnB is a cyberspace service and not subject to zoning laws. Detroit has no such authority, ignore it.
Is this a new meme? That every state outside of California doesn't have clean water?
I agree. keep your sorry ass in CA.
I believe that the reason the majority of those who oppose AirBnB is from the resident type because the residents are purposely served locals (people who live there). If the area is for a vacation, e.g. beach town, then I doubt that the resistance would be as much as the residential only area (not for vacation but to live live). I understand what you are trying to demonstrate -- AirBnB creates no issue but rather gives more convenience to home owners. I still believe that your case doesn't apply to TFA (resident type).
Unless, of course:
There are plenty of ways to be a poor property owner.
Please take him. Please. I live in California, and it is exactly that attitude that makes it intolerable.
And no, I cannot move: Elderly family members need my support. Elderly family members, I may add, who get absolutely no help from the state of California. Because they're "rich", meaning they own a home.
By that definition, every place in Los Angeles should receive no better than 2 stars due to traffic.
By that definition, every place in Los Angeles should receive no better than 2 stars due to traffic.
Depends on the windows though. You can have thick windows that stops most of the noise. If she rated by noise outside, yeah okay, that is nit-picky in a big city.