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Ubuntu 18.04 LTS Could Come with Snap Apps Preinstalled (omgubuntu.co.uk)
Ubuntu 18.04 LTS 'Bionic Beaver' could ship with Snap apps installed by default. From a report: A proposal from Ubuntu developer Steve Langasek suggests that Snapcraft now stand as a 'first-class' alternative to traditional packages, making them ripe for inclusion. "As more software becomes available as snaps, we want to take advantage of this body of packages as part of the default Ubuntu experience," he writes. As part of his proposal -- which is just a suggestion for the moment, so don't get excited/angry -- Langasek wants to iron out policy and rules around seeded snap app. This is to ensure they are updated and maintained accordingly, inline with Ubuntu practice. While Snaps by default would be something of a first for the regular version Ubuntu, it wouldn't be a first in general. That honour goes to Ubuntu MATE 17.10, the first distro to ship with a preinstalled Snap app.
Snap App really means for LUDDITE software! Modern app appers only app APP apps, NOT LUDDITE Snap Apps!
Apps!
I've been waiting for the next LTS release (which should be 18.04) before upgrading from 16.04. Unfortunately there is a bug in CUPS in the 16.04 LTS release that nobody cares about that causes CUPS to randomly die without warning or logging. I resolved this by having cron restart it every 5 minutes, but that is a bit sub-optimal.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
I'm sure there's a snap for that...
I'm curious what kind of horrendous security wholes this would open up? It seems like anything called Snap would probably want to install/upgrade itself without permission, potentially blowing a whole wide open for various malware and miscreant NSA stuff much like the Windows world users have to deal with currently. I did not move to Linux and sacrifice usability simply to be exposed to the same toxic cesspool of malware.
In the linked article, the author seems to be making an argument that one benefit of using Snap Apps is that, particularly with LTS releases, there comes a point at which package maintainers simply stop providing "new" packages for a release which may have been generally available for two or more years.
.deb packages. Can anyone help clarify this, just to give the article some context please?
If I understand this particular argument, the author is making a case that "snap apps" have the ability to "stay current" - something which may be relevant for software packages on fairly short release cycles, such as browsers [Firefox] or office suites [LibreOffice].
But what is not clear from this section of the article is whether snaps contain some inherent functionality that makes them more suitable for this than traditional Debian-pased
Thanks.
Presumably something that installs programs?
But hip and new and calls them apps?
Come on people, the world of tech is wide and deep. You don't have to define what Ubuntu is, but you do have to define what the hell this new thing is.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
WTF I am reading? What is that? I run Ubuntu and Mate. I even read Hackernews when I want to waste some time.
Never ever I've come acroos Snap apps. Google search just brings up SEO span.
The links talk about snappiness, snapcraft, snapvocates and that it will double the size of the ISO image..
Have I lived under a rock or is this stuff just BS?
where everything's included in the package. No library links so in theory it'll run on any Linux. It reminds me a bit of how Mac apps used to work where you just dragged a folder over and it was installed, as opposed to the Windows world of complex installers or the Linux world of dependency management via apt-get or RPM.
If true it sounds like a holy grail. Build one package to run anywhere. No more Linux app fragmentation. No more dependency hell and all day games of hunt the repository. But it also sounds too good to be true.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
They're humongous and completely inefficient. Case in point, vlc:
As a Debian package (assuming you have the other libs of course):
/snap/vlc/current/ | grep total
$ apt-cache show vlc | grep Installed-Size
Installed-Size: 4828 (4.7M)
As a Snap package:
$ du -ch
771M total
Snap packages have no dependendy problems, can be installed on any platform, are dead easy to maintain and very easy and safe to install/uninstall.
BUT! They start much slower, waste a LOT more disk space and a LOT of memory - since each Snap package is self-contained, and each package has different libraries that need to be loaded.
I use Snap packages to try out software easily, or to install a testing version of some software on a stable machine without messing up all my libraries (in the case of vlc, to use the version that plays Youtube videos correctly, since the stable Debian version is hopelessly outdated). But really, having 3 of 4 of them in an otherwise normal, lean install is as much as I'm willing to put up with.
An entire distro distributed as Snap package is plain suicidal.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
And D.I.E.D.E.D.!
!Does you want also die RSAP?
I hadn't heard about Snapcraft until now, but taking a look at the site it sounds like it will fix some major problems and make Linux a more viable platform.
I'm just moving to Linux and have been doing a bit of development. A major drawback I've found is the trouble releasing your software, since it requires multiple builds and different packages for different distributions. The trouble distributing software has been a significant factor in putting me off Linux, but it sounds like Snapcraft will make things much easier by allowing you to do just one build and bundle all the dependencies.
Another thing I've found annoying about Linux is that the software in the repositories is often extremely old and there's no way to upgrade to the latests version. It sounds like Snapcraft will solve this problem as well with auto-updates. I just hope there's a way to keep a specific version if you don't want to upgrade.
These were actually my two biggest issues with Linux, and I'm very enthused to hear there's a solution. It sounds like Snapcraft will make things easier for both developers and users.
Snaps appear to be the equivilent of UWP/windows store apps for Linux. I’ll stick with .tar.gz files thanks.
Does it come with a detachable penis https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byDiILrNbM4/ covered with "OpenSORES" you flimsy dweeb goofs like? You all remind me of the singer of "King Missile" hahahaha!
Pretty much sums it up.
Just as many hassles as Fat Binaries with all the pitfalls of prepackaged apps with their own (often out of date) libraries included.
Also an excellent vector for dll injection attacks, since they include their own 'fullstack' software for everything in userspace.
"Bionic Beaver" Did they roll-over the alphabet and go back to A?
You should decide for yourself, has Ubuntu helped me learn Linux, or how to live in another walled ecosystem?
You can survive, but when somebody emails you a tarball, or something that ends with .gz do you still have that post-it note that tells you how to install that application?
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for widespread adoption, but not at the cost of diluting the benefits, or the gene pool.
I wouldn't call myself an expert, but I still prefer the command line over the candy-colored icons myself.
So now we have snap whatever. Just hold your hand out towards the incoming tide and say, No, I'll be fine, thanks
Most of all it will make windows 11 a more viable platform. This is _their_ escape from lib hell.
Kind of sounds like the idea behind containers.
fIatpak seems to be the same thing but a competing standard.
For shit and giggles I tried dosbox as a flatpak (it's years old anyway)
As it's sandboxed to a corner of the file system, it can't read your files, so it's useless.
I will try it as a snap if available. If it works the same then the feature is you have to do sysadmin shit to make your "apps" useful.
to focus on broken things before add new crap no one wants, like hibernation and undocking my laptop without the screen screwing up.
Dependencies in snap packages may also be behind in updates
Twinstiq, game news
Docker, which is containers is nice, but still doesn't have the front-end friendliness that MSI installers have. Try installing a database and you'll see why.
Talk about a NSFW name for a Distro Release. :-)
#NamingFail
Another thing I've found annoying about Linux is that the software in the repositories is often extremely old and there's no way to upgrade to the latests version. It sounds like Snapcraft will solve this problem as well with auto-updates.
Snaps will have the opposite problem instead - if the software publisher doesn't update the package, you'll be stuck with out-of-date versions of every library that the application uses. This could be a major issue if there's a serious security vulnerability found in a commonly-used library. Instead of getting a single patched version of the library from the package repository, which will probably only take a day or two, you have to hope that every one of the applications that use that library are updated quickly.
Do you realize 4GB and 64GB is high end on phones, 8GB and 256GB is high end on laptops? There is insufficient production capacity, demand is high (3 billion users), a new fab costs like $13 billions, getting a new node takes about half a decade (going from 14nm to 7nm), there are only a handful vendors for anything.
A RAM factory is more expensive than a space program, complete with road-mobile ICBMs.
"Bionic Beaver" ... for some reason, "Sharon Stone" comes to mine.
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Even if disk space and memory aren't in short supply on full-size tower PCs nowadays, they're still in short supply on compact laptop PCs. And I thought the price of DRAM had been trending upward over the past several years.
Programs aren't the source for storage issues.
Downloading new versions of programs is the source for overage issues when security updates for all the snaps that bundle a particular library cause you to redownload said snaps, in turn causing you to exceed the monthly Internet data transfer quota that your ISP imposes on your household.
Since when in this day and age is hard drive and memory space been an issue?
Since at least 18 months ago, the general price trend for memory space has been upward. (Source: Memory - Price Trends - PCPartPicker)
When Google started switching from Ubuntu to Debian I was thinking about doing the same. I am not even sure Canonicle gives a crap about Ubuntu desktop anymore.
A Snap is a container package which runs in a confined space and includes both the binary and its dependencies. It doesn't have, or need, access to the rest of the system.
It can run on any distribution because it isn't dependent on libraries installed in the district.
There are some positives in terms of security. A snap application is in some ways isolated from the rest of the system, so a security issue with one snap app doesn't affect the rest of the system as much. In particular, just because you have one snap that uses an older version of a library doesn't mean you have that older version installed system-wide, where everything has to use it.
You mentioned a negative (which is also a positive) - Snaps can update themselves without disturbing the rest of the system, so by default they do. That means it *could* update to something malicious, but in most cases updates *improve* security. In the real world, bad guys most often take advantage of known vulnerabilities which have been fixed by updates. So keeping your system up-to-date is one of the best ways you can make it more secure.
Snaps, like every other packaging standard out there, will eventually become so bloated, fragmented, overconfigurable, and difficult to use that eventually someone will have a revolutionary idea: we need a new packaging standard. Something simple, yet powerful. Call it "Plops" as in "you just plop that software right in." Plops will become the Next Best Thing. Everyone will have to have Plopsmaster as the most recent role on their resumes. Books like "Plop Your Way to Software Configuration Management!" and "Plops: the Definitive Guide, covering Plop, Plop 2.0, the Flush Framework, Effluent 3.5, and Emerging Standards like Septic Fields and Mercy Flush" will appear on the market.
Then one day someone will realize just how bloated, fragmented, overconfiguratble, and difficult to use Plops. He'll have a revolutionary idea: we need a new packaging standard.......
> have multiple copies of every library used (updated independently)
Which, besides disk space, is good and bad for security.
If an old program needs an old copy of a lib that old (insecure) lib is only used by that one snap. On the other hand, with shared libraries, updating the one system copy of the lib updates it for all applications. There is no reason to think that ALL snaps using a library will update every time the library is updated. Unless of course that were built into the system, but I don't think it is because backward compatibility can't be guaranteed in general, only known for specific versions of specific libraries.
...not for slow connections. I can't do these without some hassle on my 1.5M DSL line......
When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
No. I reply and ask them why the hell they're using that archaic compression algorithm.
Because of compatibility. Even a file compressed with "that archaic compression algorithm" is smaller than the combination of the same file compressed with a newer compression algorithm and a decompressor for the new compression algorithm that is itself compressed with "that archaic compression algorithm".
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I hope and pray that someone isn't Lennart Poettering.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Hooray! Ubuntu will finally have all the security and quality control of a corporate app store!
Sturgeon's Law is absurdly optimistic.
When they get to R it'd better be Robo Cock
Is anybody actually building Snap packages for their applications, or is it all just driven by Canonical? In my experience, Snaps are either built by Canonical employees or Canonical seems to be paying application builders to produce Snaps.