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SpaceX's Falcon Heavy Center Booster Lacked Ignition Fluid To Light Engines and Land On Platform (latimes.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Los Angeles Times: The center core booster of SpaceX's Falcon Heavy didn't land on a floating sea platform as intended during last week's first test flight because it ran out of ignition fluid, company Chief Executive Elon Musk said Monday. Musk took to Twitter on Monday morning to give a few more updates on the Falcon Heavy's first flight. After liftoff, the rocket's two side boosters touched down simultaneously on land, eliciting cheers and applause from the crowd of SpaceX employees gathered in the company's Hawthorne headquarters, as seen on the launch livestream. Those two boosters, which were used in previous launches of SpaceX's workhorse Falcon 9 rocket, will not be reused again, Musk said in a post-launch news conference last week. But the center core booster ended up hitting the Atlantic Ocean at 300 mph and about 328 feet from the floating platform where it was supposed to land. Musk said Monday that there wasn't enough ignition fluid to light the outer two engines of the booster "after several three engine relights."

32 of 171 comments (clear)

  1. Missed it by *that* much. by ColdWetDog · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sorry guys, this isn't horseshoes or hand grenades.

    It's rocket science.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    1. Re:Missed it by *that* much. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not sure the point you are trying to make here... It was a test flight. The first time they have had to slow down a booster from this sort of burn, with the longest set of three engine burns so far.

      Turns out the current build doesn't have enough igniter fluid. But they captured that data, and can now correct for it.

      It is exactly the same thing that happened with the early test landings of the Falcon 9 boosters, where they weren't sure how much hydraulic fluid they would need. Now they know, and now they land the Falcon 9 boosters with an incredible success rate.

      They can't just calculate exactly how much they need of these things, because the atmosphere adds a highly dynamic variable. They can take a very educated guess, but as the landing is automated and corrects for a wide variety of conditions, this is one of those "we have to do it to see... and we might not even get it right the second... or third... or fourth time."

    2. Re:Missed it by *that* much. by beelsebob · · Score: 2

      I agree with you for the most part. My one surprise in all of this is that they don't over-design the first vehicle. I'd have expected them to give themselves 15% more than they calculated they needed, and then observe "oh hey, we only needed 2% more than we thought" when it landed.

      On the other hand, I guess maybe they did do that, and discovered that they needed 17% more than they thought.

    3. Re: Missed it by *that* much. by c6gunner · · Score: 2

      You would think with something like ignition fluid they would just go 100% more right off the bat, and see how much they actually use. It has to be a teeny tiny fraction of the total rocket's weight. Yeah, it would mean having to build larger storage tanks for it, too, but if it saves your multimillion dollar rocket from performing the worlds largest cannonball ....

    4. Re: Missed it by *that* much. by TWX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We don't really know how much they actually included. For all we know they already had increased the quantity to what they thought was a safe margin.

      The balancing act is pretty insane, any increase in rocket mass means a decrease in payload mass. They literally have to build a rocket that's just equipped to do what it needs to do in order to maximize payload. After all, a rocket is cool and all but it's the payload that really matters.

      If they do decide to add more fluid then they'll probably see if they can cut mass anywhere else. It may not take much, but finding 50-100lb is going to be a challenge.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    5. Re: Missed it by *that* much. by Kjella · · Score: 4, Informative

      Sure, but this is a TEST flight, so I would argue that it's more important to start with a smaller payload. That way you can work down from safe to probably safe and have less risk of losing the test vehicles.

      Well, it's less risk to the test vehicle but the more your final configuration deviates from the current configuration the higher the risk of some unexpected side effects. When you can count the number of tests on one hand with fingers to spare it's better to fail on the first test and say that's what tests are for than fail on the second test and raise concerns that it has hidden flaws that might kill missions at random. Despite all that Elon Musk said to manage expectations they did not send a $100 million dollar rocket out there to blow up an equally expensive pad on a 50-50 or 2/3rds chance. They've extensively tested every component and subsystem they could find, simulated it a million times with computers and it would have passed with flying colors.

      This is the final integration test, not the first test. The rest is that X factor, what haven't we taken into consideration. Are our assumptions, models and formulas flawed in some way. He can't really lose talking it down, if it blows up on the pad well space is hard. If it works, he's pulled off some amazing feat. So I'd want something very close to the production model flying, as long as the odds remain good you'll get your test data. And in that respect this was an entirely insignificant failure, they got telemetry on everything right up to the final impact. Making this part of the mission fail-safe wouldn't really have any big benefit. Just downsides in redesign, if this was what they thought was the right amount.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  2. Re:Prompts a question by Snotnose · · Score: 2

    Probably as a test. Sure, they landed on their feet. But I'm there there is a wealth of telemetry telling them what went right, what went wrong, and what almost went wrong.

  3. Re:Prompts a question by DamnRogue · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Practice.

  4. "About 328 feet" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    FFS, America, USE METRIC !

    1. Re:"About 328 feet" by pezpunk · · Score: 2

      but a meter is a lot more than a foot -- if they had used metric, it would have landed even farther away.

      --
      i could live a little longer in this prison
    2. Re:"About 328 feet" by dohzer · · Score: 3, Funny

      They did. Well, at least the engineers did.

      There are two types of countries: those that use the metric system, and those that lose wars to Vietnamese farmers.

    3. Re: "About 328 feet" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Which category do you put France in?

    4. Re:"About 328 feet" by kenai_alpenglow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I didn't know the Chinese didn't use metric.

  5. Re:Prompts a question by spire3661 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because you simply cant buy PR like this. https://upload.wikimedia.org/w... Absolutely spectacular.

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    Good-bye
  6. Ignition fluid is TEA-TEB by JoshuaZ · · Score: 4, Informative

    The ignition fluid in question is TEA-TEB https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triethylborane#Rocket, a mixture of triethylborane and triethylaluminium. This is a common ignition fluid for rockets which burn RP-1 (rocket grade kerosene), since RP-1 is hard to ignite. The two are mixed because one of the two has really dependable ignition while the other one burns more cleanly. This sort of ignition system has been in use since the 1960s, but SpaceX is the first to use the TEA-TEB ignition system to ignite a rocket engine while the rocket engine is moving quickly *downwards* into the atmosphere. Experiments will sometimes work, and sometimes won't. They are obviously figuring out just how much TEA-TEB they need.

    1. Re:Ignition fluid is TEA-TEB by psmoot · · Score: 2

      Experiments will sometimes work, and sometimes won't. They are obviously figuring out just how much TEA-TEB they need.

      That's what seems odd. They've re-lit Falcon engines dozens of times by now. I'm surprised the amount of igniter varies by much so I expected the knew how much they needed. Does the amount of igniter vary much based on, say, the speed and altitude of the booster? Do those parameters vary by that much between normal Falcon 9 and the Falcon Heavy flights?

      I'm guessing it must vary by more than I expect. These guys are rocket scientists after all. If it was that simple and predictable, we wouldn't have a new clip for the blooper reel.

    2. Re:Ignition fluid is TEA-TEB by JoshuaZ · · Score: 3, Informative

      Center core is heavier than a regular Falcon 9 first stage, so it has a higher terminal velocity. So it may take more TEA-TEB to reliably ignite the engines when they are coming down that way.

    3. Re:Ignition fluid is TEA-TEB by jimtheowl · · Score: 2

      It does vary as much on the speed and altitude as how many times they had to re-ignite it during descent.

    4. Re:Ignition fluid is TEA-TEB by the_other_chewey · · Score: 4, Informative

      higher momentum; terminal velocity is independent of mass (according to physics).

      In an atmosphere? It absolutely is not.

      In an atmosphere, the heavier a given shape is,
      the faster its terminal velocity is.

      It's pretty obvious: A one meter steel ball, a one meter
      styrofoam ball, and a one meter helium balloon all fall at the
      same rate in vacuum.

      Add Earth's atmosphere, and they don't even all fall in the same direction.

  7. They used all the fluid testing their flamethrower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    They really shouldn't have used all the fluid on the flamethrower tests

  8. Re:Prompts a question by istartedi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As a highly rated reply said, "practice". I'd like to add that it's also the only nominal way to land them. The alternative is to make a mess on the LZ, or chuck them someplace where they'd be pollution.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  9. Re:Prompts a question by Michael+Woodhams · · Score: 4, Informative

    To save people video watching:
    In the post-flight press conference, Musk said that the titanium grid fins are hard to manufacture and expensive and they currently don't have many, so he was very pleased to get these ones back. Also, the titanium grid fins are larger, and the side boosters need the bigger fins because the nose cone (rather than blunt end) reduces the effectiveness of the fins.

    --
    Quattuor res in hoc mundo sanctae sunt: libri, liberi, libertas et liberalitas.
  10. Is this new news? by BenFranske · · Score: 2

    I don't know why the LA Times is reporting this as new news. I'm pretty sure I had heard by Wednesday or Thursday that the problem was the rocket rant out of TEA-TEB ignition fluid. Don't journalists watch press conferences and read analysis anymore? Does the CEO need to Tweet about it before they pay attention?

  11. Unlikely unit conversion by Orgasmatron · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whenever I see 328 feet, I know that someone said "about 100 meters" and the reporter multiplied it under the assumption that us yokels can't figure out what it means without their help. It really pisses me off when reading an article about something slashdot-worthy, like a rocket. We never went metric in the US, but you'd have a hard time finding one of us today who isn't bilingual enough to grasp 100 meters as easily as 100 yards or 300 feet.

    On the other hand, if the SpaceX guy did the conversion because he knew that the moronic reporters would otherwise report it as "328 feet, 1.00788 inches", I withdraw my objection with a chuckle.

    --
    See that "Preview" button?
  12. Re:Noting by tdelaney · · Score: 2

    ~$5 million for the centre core IIRC, and it wasn't going to be reused in any case. All-in-all, fairly cheap in aerospace terms for valuable data.

    Sometimes there's no substitute for actually trying things out and failing. Aiming to succeed but not being afraid to fail is one of the major reasons why SpaceX has advanced their development so quickly (even with a 5-year delay on original estimates for the first Falcon Heavy test flight).

  13. Ignition! by mtaht · · Score: 4, Informative

    A fabulous, deep, funny book on rocket fuels and the crazed chemists that developed them is called "Ignition!", by John D. Clark and forward by Isaac Asimov. Example text:

    "Recommended lab attire for working with this volatile compound: Running shoes."

    Ignition! has been long out of print. Thankfully archive.org has a copy here: https://archive.org/details/ig...

    1. Re:Ignition! by damnbunni · · Score: 2

      Ignition! is back in print, on Kindle and in paperback.

  14. Re:Best possible failure by Goetterdaemmerung · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Of the possible failures that could have occurred, this seems like the best one. This was the newest part on the whole 'kit' so it wouldn't surprise me if it was an issue in calculations or some minor mechanical issue that resulted in this. In the end this was still an 80% success and were this a commercial launch, the buyer wouldn't have been overly disappointed since the payload made it into orbit. I have no doubt the next launch will be a complete success with all 3 rockets landing without problem

    Don't skimp on the metrics! The mission was 100% success given it launched successfully and put the payload into high orbit. All buyers would be perfectly satisfied with the result. The landings of 2/3 boosters is extra, and the reignition of the second stage to achieve Mars trajectory was extra - although the angle was slightly off. I'd grant these an additional 50% bonus so 150% successful mission far beyond anyone's expectations. Even Musk said he'd be happy if it blew up far enough from the launch pad to not cause damage.

  15. Re:Best possible failure by cjameshuff · · Score: 4, Informative

    The target orbit was one that went at least to Mars orbit. There were no requirements that it only go to Mars orbit. They burned to depletion to demonstrate the amount of second stage performance available after a 6 hour coast (that being a requirement of some defense launches).

  16. Re:Noting by pezpunk · · Score: 2

    it's amazing how many people don't know what a test flight is for.

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    i could live a little longer in this prison
  17. Re:Prompts a question by istartedi · · Score: 2

    Of course; but this one's not designed to do that. If you're committed to the Falcon style of recovery, the parachute system is dead mass. In space flight, mass is money so you sort of have to commit to one recovery system or another.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  18. Re:Noting by DamnOregonian · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I actually got a little choked-up.

    Was hard not to. Felt like one of those "Holy shit, humanity... Holy shit." moments.
    Shit coming back from space and landing without banging off the ground or splashing into the water... is pretty amazing. Even cooler that the entire thing is autonomous.