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Vietnam's Internet is in Trouble (wapo.st)

The World Post: Vietnamese authorities have harped of late on the urgency of fighting cybersecurity threats and "bad and dangerous content." Yet the fight against either "fake news" or misinformation in Vietnam must not be used as a smoke screen for stifling dissenting opinions and curtailing freedom of speech [The link may be paywalled]. Doing so would only further stoke domestic cynicism in a country where the sudden expansion of space for free and open discussion has created a kind of high-pressure catharsis online. Other countries, including democratic states, are also scrambling to rein in toxic information online. But while Germany, for example, specifically targets hate speech and other extremist messaging that directly affects the masses, Vietnamese leaders are more fixated on content deemed detrimental to their own reputation and the survival of the regime.

The ruling Communist Party of Vietnam has repeatedly urged Facebook and Google to block "toxic" information that it said slandered and defamed Vietnamese leaders. Google sort of conformed by removing more than such 5,000 clips; Facebook also flagged about 160 anti-government accounts at the behest of the government.

14 of 121 comments (clear)

  1. The trouble with "hate speech" by Obfuscant · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Is that the government gets to define it. Like Germany where they prohibit speech that they define as hate speech, Vietnam also prohibits speech they define as hate speech.

    The best solution is to not allow the government to prohibit speech, so then there is never an issue with who defines what how.

    I'm not sure how someone having a blog that mentions Hitler and Nazis "directly affects the masses", but I'm sure German officials could answer that.

    1. Re:The trouble with "hate speech" by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2, Informative

      You are mixing up communism with totaliarism.
      China is communist/totaliarian with a capitalistic economy.
      And I doubt their free speech laws are worth than other countries.

      There are plenty of levels of democracy, actually China considers itself a democracy, go figure.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    2. Re:The trouble with "hate speech" by epyT-R · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A culture that must be shielded from such inanities (including screeds like yours) in order to survive is not fit for survival. Instead of teaching children to be adult snowflakes like the left does now, we should return to teaching them how to handle adversity.

    3. Re:The trouble with "hate speech" by guestapoo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Karl Marx himself stated that communism must begin with the violent overthrow of democracy

      Citation is needed!
      In fact, Marx has never discussed anything about how to archive communism.
      One of the form of communism in idea of Marx is that the government must be exterminated, how does that mean "overthrow of democracy" when there would be not rulers at all?
      Don't mixed the **interpretations** of Marx's ideas of Lenin, Mao, Stalin... in as Marx's ideas!

    4. Re:The trouble with "hate speech" by guestapoo · · Score: 2

      Disagree? Then prove it: How many communist revolutions were democratically elected? And how many communist revolutions ever allowed free speech? There have been many communist revolutions around the world, so if what you say is true, then at least one should meet both criteria.

      Communist revolution? Actually, one must ask there really actual communist revolutions out there!
      It's not that "because Soviet was failed so they - communists try to lie that Soviet was not communism". It's ironical that who predict the fall of Soviet and was vocally against Stalinism or Leninism or Trotskyism, etc are Marxists themselves:

      This is from 1931 article of Socialist party of Great Britain: http://www.worldsocialism.org/...

      The wage-labour system in Russian State industries, like the system here and elsewhere, is a system of Slavery. The spread of piece-work will intensify the slavery ; it will enable the "Communist" rulers to squeeze more surplus-produce out of Russian workers, just as it has helped the Conservative and Liberal capitalists of this country. Alleged "quotations" in support of it from Marx merely brand Stalin & Co. as hypocrites and their followers as ignorant dupes. The Russian Government must make a profit in order to pay interest upon its loans if for no other reason, and this fact alone is sufficient to explode the myth that Russian State industry is run on Socialist lines.

      The Russian Government has to borrow money to run its industries, like any other capitalist concern, because it has to pay for machinery and raw material, because its employees have to pay for the food, clothes and houses they need; because, in a phrase, all the means by which these requirements are produced are private property. It has not established an oasis of Socialism in a capitalist desert. Had it tried to do so it would have been speedily annihilated.

    5. Re:The trouble with "hate speech" by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm not sure what the solution is

      "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence." --Justice Sanford.

      Oppressing speech with censorship, even if the speech is made of lies, will never be effective, and can easily make the problem worse. If good people are not willing to speak up, then there is no hope for the country.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:The trouble with "hate speech" by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      In 1946, the communist party won a plurality in Czechoslovakia [wikipedia.org], in an election that was generally considered fair.

      The communist party won 38% of the vote, which was achieved by deceiving the public. What they got was the largest number of seats in parliament, what they didn't get was a revolution, and they were expected to lose the next election pretty badly. Of course, being communists, they would have none of that. The revolution happened after the communist party staged a coup and overthrew the democratic government, forcibly removing all of the other elected parties and installing a single-party concentrated rule, as Karl Marx himself proscribed in the past.

      So no, that really doesn't count. At all. If the democratic government had been allowed to work as it was intended, the communist party would have been voted out, never to return.

    7. Re:The trouble with "hate speech" by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 3

      Karl Marx himself stated that communism must begin with the violent overthrow of democracy.
      No, he did not say that.
      You are an idiot.
      During Marx times, he btw. was German, most countries had no or no real democracy.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Then prove it: How many communist revolutions were democratically elected?
      AFAIK there were no communist revolutions on the planet so far ...

      And as it turns out, that is what communist revolutions always do (besides depriving you of your life savings and turning your home over to the state to do whatever they want with.)
      That is nonsense. Private house owners always existed in the DDR (German democratic republic), and BTW: they where not communist, they where socialist.

      However: you get some bonus points however when you can explain how democracy actually works in a typical communist/one party system, the retarded US two party system and a democratic multi party system. And please take extra care to explain why a communist one party system is not or can not be democratic!!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    8. Re:The trouble with "hate speech" by guestapoo · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.
      Henry Kissinger

  2. Um by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 3, Funny

    Vietnam is a communist dictatorship. I hope Internet censorship doesn't come as some sort of surprise ...

  3. "toxic information" by rogoshen1 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Jesus Christ. Having a well-educated, thoughtful, free, and open society is the remedy against "toxic information"

    Anything else is censorship.

  4. Why not? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yet the fight against either "fake news" or misinformation in Vietnam must not be used as a smoke screen for stifling dissenting opinions and curtailing freedom of speech.

    That's what the fight against "fake news" and "misinformation" is used for everywhere else.

  5. Re: No problem by Reverend+Green · · Score: 2

    Yup, that long history with China is key. Half the major streets in Ho Chi Minh City are named after historical heroes who drove out Chinese invaders.

    Despite the war and all that bad history, Americans have one really big advantage in dealing with Vietnam. We are most definitely not Chinese.

  6. Re: Nonsense! by Hal_Porter · · Score: 2

    Who is Reverend Green? He's a character I created to explore some experimental political viewpoints. He's religious, unambiguously communist, socially conservative, and perhaps outspoken. Yet I hope his words are sometimes not far from the truth. Brothers and sisters - look around you, open your eyes, write your own narrative. || FWIW, I have a low-UID /. account in my real name. I used to post regularly. Yet the chilling effect of the current social climate in America is such that I am no longer feel comfortable posting political thoughts under my own name.

    I'm not sure why you're criticising me for going off on a tangent from the Vietnamese Communist Party to their enablers in the West given that Hal_Porter is also a character I created to explore 'experimental political views' without getting the real me blacklisted for criticising the left and explaining their opponents when I feel they're being unfairly criticised.

    --
    echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;