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Taiwan To Ban Plastic Straws, Cups and Shopping Bags By 2030 (channelnewsasia.com)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Taiwan is planning a blanket ban on single-use plastic items including straws, cups and shopping bags by 2030, officials said Thursday, with restaurants facing new restrictions from next year. It is the latest push by Taiwan to cut waste and pollution after introducing a recycling programme and charges for plastic bags. The island's eco-drive has also extended to limiting the use of incense at temples and festivals to protect public health. Its new plan will force major chain restaurants to stop providing plastic straws for in-store use from 2019, a requirement that will expand to all dining outlets in 2020. Consumers will have to pay extra for all straws, plastic shopping bags, disposable utensils and beverage cups from 2025, ahead of a full ban on the single-use items five years later, according to the road map from the government's Environmental Protection Administration (EPA).

128 comments

  1. Multi-use straws? by MrNJ · · Score: 1

    Not seeing it.
    Straws are not exactly washable on the inside.

    What's next - multi-use TP ?

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    1. Re:Multi-use straws? by jetkust · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's also paper straws.

      I really don't like them and they feel weird on your lips, but they work.

    2. Re:Multi-use straws? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No straws

    3. Re:Multi-use straws? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I can picture a machine that businesses could buy to wash and sterilize straws, but it might not be very good for the environment.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    4. Re: Multi-use straws? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Either no straws or metal straws. I have stainless steel straws at home. They are reusable and washable. Though I'd probably not use one at a restaurant unless they created a machine to wash them which would be pretty simple and easy to do. Just put them in a device that can wash at high temp and pressure and then run a pipe cleaner though the center to scrub it out. Would not be hard to automate the entire process and with a little work most of the loading could be automated too. Drop the straws in a bit and it would orientated them them then washing would start.

    5. Re:Multi-use straws? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Toilet paper can biodegrade, it isn't a hazard to marine life.

    6. Re:Multi-use straws? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Not seeing it. Straws are not exactly washable on the inside. What's next - multi-use TP ?

      You can buy reusable hard plastic straws - we have some. We just soak em in hot soapy water, then rinse. Not sure what procedures or machines you'd need for commercial application.

    7. Re:Multi-use straws? by Dayze!Confused · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's a slightly different culture there. It's not that there are multi-use versions of straws, but that they give them out for everything. If you go to a 7-11 and get a 20oz bottle of coke, they give you a straw. Buy two of them, they give you two straws. It's essentially unheard of in a restaurant to have a drink without a straw also given to you even though the reusable cups can be drank from without a straw.

      I'm not certain how fast food places will change for this, as their lids make it impossible to drink without a straw, and the cups are flimsy without lids.

      One thing I can state, the shopping bags that they charge for there are of a much higher quality than the ones you get in the states. This may be that they start making higher quality cups that don't bend as easily for in restaurant use, or even start having reusable cups in McDonald's.

      --
      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
    8. Re:Multi-use straws? by Sarten-X · · Score: 1

      There are paper straws, which are biodegradable and recyclable. They typically do survive a drink with a meal, unless you're the sort of person to keep a cup around for a few hours.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    9. Re:Multi-use straws? by mark-t · · Score: 1

      I'm not certain how fast food places will change for this, as their lids make it impossible to drink without a straw, and the cups are flimsy without lids.Paper straws. Lots of restaurants already use these.

    10. Re:Multi-use straws? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      Not seeing it.

      Nah, they will go with environment friendly single-use straws . . . made of what, you ask . . . ?

      Bonsai Bamboo!

      . . . and the bamboo will sequester CO2 and stop global warming.

      What's next - multi-use TP ?

      Who needs TP . . . ? A good Japanese toilet will wash your hairy ass clean, and then blow dry it.

      --
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    11. Re:Multi-use straws? by mspohr · · Score: 1

      I think you're grasping at straws here.

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    12. Re:Multi-use straws? by thomn8r · · Score: 1

      Nice strawman argument

    13. Re:Multi-use straws? by mspohr · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you got the short straw.

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      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    14. Re:Multi-use straws? by MS · · Score: 1

      Why use straws at all? I learned to drink from the glass without sucking on a straw.

    15. Re:Multi-use straws? by jetkust · · Score: 1

      Alright guys, stop it with the straw jokes. This is the last straw.

    16. Re:Multi-use straws? by IhateMonkeys · · Score: 1

      Quit sucking up.

    17. Re:Multi-use straws? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not certain how fast food places will change for this, as their lids make it impossible to drink without a straw, and the cups are flimsy without lids.Paper straws. Lots of restaurants already use these.

      Where? I haven't seen a paper straw in over a decade.

    18. Re:Multi-use straws? by mspohr · · Score: 1

      Would you say it was the straw that broke the camels back?

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    19. Re:Multi-use straws? by Stolovaya · · Score: 1

      Lids for fast food places could always be changed to the type of lids used for disposable coffee cups, where there is a tab that is opened to drink the contents. No straw required.

    20. Re:Multi-use straws? by lgw · · Score: 1

      Who needs TP . . . ? A good Japanese toilet will wash your hairy ass clean, and then blow dry it.

      Just don't hit the "remove tampon" button by mistake.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    21. Re:Multi-use straws? by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      For people with motion disorders, such as Parkinson's Disease or Essential Tremors, straws make the difference between being able to drink and being unable to do so. Banning all straws would be a VERY BAD thing, and if anyone tries it in the U.S., I guarantee there will be an ADA suit overturning the law within the first week.

      Of course, a ban on non-compostable plastic straws would be fine. There are plenty of more environmentally friendly alternatives that work just as well. But a ban on all plastic straws would be a disaster.

      --

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    22. Re:Multi-use straws? by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      And for sweet drinks, a straw causes less of it to get on your teeth, contributing to deterioration of the choppers if you don't brush soon after.

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      This space unintentionally left blank.
    23. Re:Multi-use straws? by radja · · Score: 1

      just stick'em in the dishwasher.

      --

      No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
      --Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
    24. Re:Multi-use straws? by MS · · Score: 1

      Which percentage of the population has Parkinson's Desease or any of the other problems you mention?!? Those should ask for the straws and get them for free. But for 99% of the users it's only unnecessary trash which gets added to a simple meal or drink. Stupid idea.

    25. Re:Multi-use straws? by MS · · Score: 1

      I don't know how you drink. When I drink from a glass, the fluid hardly touches the lips (which vover the choppers, and then the tongue. I don't expose the choppers - and even when, it's only for a second. My teeth are in best health. That's a non-issue and a bad reason to pollute our world with plastic-trash.

    26. Re:Multi-use straws? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      I like strawberries.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    27. Re:Multi-use straws? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But do they vover the cofefe?

    28. Re:Multi-use straws? by mspohr · · Score: 1

      Now we've really gone far afield.

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      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    29. Re:Multi-use straws? by MS · · Score: 1

      cover, not vover - that was a typo - sorry!!!

    30. Re:Multi-use straws? by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      No, a partial ban on drinking straws that allows restaurants to provide them for the handicapped is simply not a viable approach. A partial ban would make this reasonable accommodation increasingly hard to provide, and thus will make it more and more rare. The problem is, if you ban them for the rest of the population, then restaurants won't have any straws to provide, so the people who need them won't be able to get them even if they ask. It would take a *lot* of ADA lawsuits against individual businesses before the average restaurant owner will hear about it, so a lawsuit against the law itself is really the only approach that stands a chance of preventing serious harm.

      As for the percentage, about 2.5% of the population have either Essential Tremor or Parkinson's Disease, and possibly as high as 4% if you expand that to include all movement disorders. However, not all of those people have tremors severe enough to make such accommodations necessary. At some point (assuming they all live long enough), they probably all will, but not at the same time.

      So the number is not a small number, but it's also not a big enough number to avoid a high rate of accidental discrimination by restaurants. Such accidental discrimination occurs with alarming regularity even without this law. My parents actually carry a disposable plastic cup in their car at all times, because so many restaurants don't have cups with lids. When they're traveling, it can cause significant problems. Laws like this will make that problem much worse unless lawmakers balance it with an explicit legal requirement for straws and cups with lids to be available at all restaurants for people who have movement disorders—not a "may provide", but rather a "must provide". Otherwise, most restaurant owners will assume that most patrons won't sue over a lack of straws, and they will simply not bother to buy straws. And at some point, it will become impossible for them to buy straws even for the restaurant owners who want to do so, because their suppliers will stop carrying them. And prices will increase as demand decreases, resulting in restaurants having to charge for straws, which becomes another form of discrimination.

      But, as I said, a regulation requiring disposable straws to be made out of compostable material would be fine. It would have almost the same ecological impact (at least over the long term), would have minimal impact on the cost for restaurants, and would not have any negative impact on patrons with movement disorders. The only thing it wouldn't do is eliminate the negligible environmental cost of transporting those compostable drinking straws from restaurants to the landfills, but eliminating that impact just isn't worth the harm it would cause to our nation's elderly.

      --

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    31. Re:Multi-use straws? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The prevalence of straws has become cultural but originated for health reasons, due to nasty things like leptospirosis.

    32. Re:Multi-use straws? by MS · · Score: 1

      Do you also drink wine, beer and an espresso with a straw?!?
      Using a straw should be the exception, not normality.... but in the USA people start lawsuits for every fart. :-(

    33. Re:Multi-use straws? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Those are generally disposable plastic lids.

    34. Re:Multi-use straws? by Stolovaya · · Score: 1

      Oh, I see what you mean, it's still plastic. But since a little is needed anyway...I guess it would just be slightly less plastic, but still using plastic...

    35. Re:Multi-use straws? by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      What the hay. A good time to bale out, I think.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  2. Good idea by omfglearntoplay · · Score: 2

    Taiwan about to pass us up in the US for common sense stuff. Really, I always wonder at the crazy waste of 10 napkins for one burger and junk like that... who needs it?

    1. Re:Good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of these things actually have use to increase sanitation and stop the spread of germs. Common sense is to look at all the pros and cons and not just do something to make the loudest environmentalists happy.

    2. Re:Good idea by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Taiwan about to pass us up in the US for common sense stuff. Really, I always wonder at the crazy waste of 10 napkins for one burger and junk like that... who needs it?

      Well, a good burger, likely should be greasy enough that you need about 10 napkins (I'm not talking fast food burgers).

      But the thing that bothers me, if they do away with plastic "to-go" cups, how will you leave the bar with your to-go drink, without a to-go cup?

      Or...is that just mostly a New Orleans problem?

      ;)

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Really, I always wonder at the crazy waste of 10 napkins for one burger and junk like that... who needs it?

      Indeed, especially, since they already require me to wear a shirt!

    4. Re:Good idea by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Taiwan about to pass us up in the US for common sense stuff.

      Many US cities have banned single-use plastic grocery bags, including my city, San Jose, California. You quickly get used to taking reusable bags or boxes with you when you shop.

      Single-use plastic bags are also banned in the entire state of Hawaii, since they are a hazard to sea turtles.

      China banned free single-use plastic grocery bags 10 years ago. You either pay for them when you checkout, or bring your own. Plastic bag use has dropped 70%.

      India has banned single-use plastic grocery bags in some cities.

    5. Re:Good idea by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Common sense is not what humans in general possess. I think banning plastic straws is not necessarily a bad thing esp. that you may have a paper replacement for it and the plastic straws are possibly thrown everywhere and at the end end up in big swirl in pacific so I say : well done. While appreciating this I would also comment that 95% of plastic garbage in the oceans is apparently coming from 10 rivers of which not one flows trough highly developed world: 4 of them flows through China, 2 of them (Amur and Mekong) partially through China. So yes this is probably a good thing but not as big good thing as it is announced to be. Or maybe I misunderstood the excitement and it is all about treasured and holy ancient tradition of using a plastic straw?

    6. Re:Good idea by edi_guy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I was somewhat skeptical on the plastic bag ban when it was introduced, but I will say I definitely noticed the reduction in litter. Prior to the ban you would see plastic bags blowing in the wind like urban tumbleweed. After the ban, almost non-existent. Similar to composting (by the city, not your back yard). Initially it feels like you are being put upon, to sort yet another thing, have another bin, etc etc. But really you get used to it pretty quickly and the benefits far outweigh the perceived hassles.

    7. Re:Good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because people from San Jose are stupid. Without exception.

      Banning plastic bags does nothing for the environment. Normal people reuse the plastic bags all the time. When you ban them at the checkout, they just get purchased, resulting in the SAME EXACT AMOUNT of plastic ending up in the trash.

      India has banned single-use plastic grocery bags in some cities.

      They also shit in the streets there. The fact that India does something is compelling evidence that it should not be done. But you being from San Jose are too dumb to see that.

    8. Re:Good idea by Cro+Magnon · · Score: 1

      Heh! You hear about people asking "Paper or plastic?". Well, at my grocery store, they don't ask. Unless you quickly yell "Paper, damnit!", they'll start putting your crap in 15 tiny plastic bags. Much as I dislike bans, in the case of plastic bags, maybe the liberals have a point.

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    9. Re:Good idea by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      With a paper/carton cup. Like the rest of the world!

      --
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    10. Re: Good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The actual evidence, from places that have banned or regulated single-use plastic bags, is that, contrary to your assertion, plastic waste is reduced.

    11. Re:Good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which is one of several reasons I don't shop in a real grocery store anymore. Instead what these fuckers have done is increase paper waste because I am tossing out 3 or so Amazon boxes a day complete with air bags, peanuts, foam, etc. I have EVERYTHING I can find mailed to me- even when there is a place less than a mile down the road (I have Autozone mail me all my parts). I don't do the typical conservative flip out and blame the gubmint. These stores have brought this shit on themselves.

    12. Re:Good idea by Dayze!Confused · · Score: 1

      In Taiwan even the McDonald's has separated trash bins. Generally recyclable, trash, and a place to dump your drinks and stack the cups. It's really not hard to separate the items before discarding them.

      --
      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
    13. Re:Good idea by Dayze!Confused · · Score: 1

      Some observations I made while living in Taiwan and plastic bag use.

      1. The plastic bag you pay about $0.03-$0.15USD for is much thicker and durable.
      2. You don't double or triple bag
      3. You fill the bag to the brim
      4. You think twice about whether or not you need a bag

      Many times I just carried my one or two items out of the store. If I had more people with me, then we carried more items.

      --
      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
    14. Re:Good idea by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      With a paper/carton cup. Like the rest of the world!

      Unlike the rest of the world, in the US, our drinks are large and loaded full of ice....a flimsy paper cup won't last long.

      I mean, if I order a double long island tea when I'm leaving the bar....it will take me a bit to drink it and I need a cup that will last long enough for that, with a lid and straw please.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    15. Re:Good idea by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Visit a McDonalds in Europe and your assumptions will be corrected.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  3. so fast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By 2030? That's too fast! There's no way business can adapt in time! /s

    1. Re:so fast! by chubs · · Score: 2

      You say this in jest, but really that is an ambitious schedule for Taiwan. As I mentioned in another comment, there are drink stands on every other street corner who sell drinks in 700cc plastic cups. They have big, expensive heat presses that seal a lid on top of it so you can carry it in a plastic bag and later puncture that lid with the included plastic straw. This move completely destroys their business model, and they have invested heavily in the equipment.

    2. Re:so fast! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Can't win on environmental policy. If you do it quickly you are trying to destroy the economy, turn it into a third world stone age country. If you do it slowly you aren't serious and know you will be long gone before having to deliver.

      --
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    3. Re:so fast! by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      They have big, expensive heat presses that seal a lid on top of it so you can carry it in a plastic bag and later puncture that lid with the included plastic straw. This move completely destroys their business model, and they have invested heavily in the equipment.

      It doesn't have to destroy it. With a slight cultural shift, people will get into the habit of carrying their own re-usable straws with the necessary profile on the piercing end to puncture the lid. And the drink stands will sell the straws, at a price high enough to strongly encourage re-use.

      --
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    4. Re:so fast! by jenningsthecat · · Score: 1

      Doh! I totally missed the 'disposable cup' part of the equation. Please excuse my Homer moment - it's been a long day...

      --
      'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
    5. Re:so fast! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As someone who has been a part of multiple start ups that lasted 10+ years, I can tell you that 10 years is an eternity in business terms. Most don't make it near that far, and during that span have to adapt to 2-3 drastic market shifts at least.

    6. Re:so fast! by tinkerton · · Score: 1

      This is where it becomes interesting to do an analysis of the plastic in the environment. Does the distribution and composition of plastic in the sea support the banning of plastic straws, is that just symbolic to build up the right mindset, or is this just the visual experience on streets with a lot of straws but with little impact outside of cities?

  4. Sad, but necessary by chubs · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I lived in Taiwan for 2 years. This makes me both sad and hopeful. Hopeful because that island REALLY needs to focus on pollution. It's a country whose economy is built around manufacturing, and the factories dump tons of emissions into the air. I had a necktie I would show people when I came home. It was a nice charcoal grey tie. I'd then show them the back of the tie (the part that spent its life against my body, less exposed to the air), and it was royal blue. Bags and cups obviously don't contribute to air pollution, but the incense they mentioned definitely can (everything is extremely hazy during Ghost Month), and there is generally a lot of pollution of all forms, which you expect in such a densely populated area.

    On the flip side, I loved the street vendors that served drinks. They would make your drink, pour it into a 700cc plastic cup, then use a head press to melt a thin plastic lid to it (think slightly thicker Saran Wrap). You could throw 5 or 6 of them in a plastic bag and not worry about them spilling. When you are ready to drink it, jab the disposable plastic straw through the lid and drink up. It was a genius system, and I will miss it dearly. I don't know what will become of those drink stands (seriously one every other corner throughout every city I lived in).

    1. Re:Sad, but necessary by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      They use that in America to sell bubble tea. They shrink wrap the top of the cup.

      You can make the seal from vegetable fiber/oil too, using local seaweed or local blue green algae, or even wood biproducts. Works fine. You just need to scale it up.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:Sad, but necessary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have been there too, a long time ago; think it was the elderly Bush as POTUS, and the only English language channel was CNN, or the US military TV channel. I enjoyed the last few seasons of Johnny Carson, witnessed the Leno-not-Letterman mixup, and loved the food that closely resembled the best Chinese cooking in the Philippines.

    3. Re:Sad, but necessary by chubs · · Score: 1

      You just need to scale it up.

      This is the problem. Like I said, they are everywhere. And they aren't, for the most part, chain stores that can do this as a concerted effort. It's little independently owned shops. I'm not saying it's impossible, but it's also not something that is going to be as trivial of a task as the original comment seemed to imply.

    4. Re:Sad, but necessary by chubs · · Score: 1

      I was in the wrong context. Reading two different threads. Sorry that the comment here didn't make a ton of sense. I like your suggestion of biodegradable material, but it's going to be a lot of work, and I don't know if all the little independently owned shops will stay in business. We'll see.

    5. Re:Sad, but necessary by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      But if they are phasing them out over twelve years, they have time to do that. First, they replace them in governments supply contracts, police, etc. Then they only allow imported non-plastic straws, to encourage local industry to provide them, but help them wean off.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    6. Re:Sad, but necessary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure. The "shrink wrap" part maybe could be something else, but I believe the system relies on melting it to the top of a styrofoam cup, which would be a lot more to replace. The styrofoam cup part is also way worse environmentally.

    7. Re:Sad, but necessary by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      As you may be aware, especially if you read scientific journals, we can literally grow organs on biomaterial lattices that absorb into the organs. We can also 3D print biomaterials, including ones that compost organically, from vegetable materials.

      Even styrofoam itself is replaced. Try looking inside those packages from Amazon and Microsoft sometimes. Those peanuts have changed.

      The future is now. Stop thinking "plastics". That was 1950s. This is 2020s tech, and it's ramping up to massive production levels, except for some backwards countries and regions, that will be dragged into the future regardless.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    8. Re:Sad, but necessary by Dayze!Confused · · Score: 1

      Bubble Tea started in Taiwan, then made its way over to the States more recently. Having been traveling back and forth between both places I'm not exactly sure on the timeline of when Bubble Tea made it to the states, but it seems to be within the last 2-5 years, but I had it all the time 12 years ago in Taiwan at every single drink stand which are literally at least one, if not two or three, per block.

      --
      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
    9. Re:Sad, but necessary by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Bubble Tea started in Taiwan, then made its way over to the States more recently. Having been traveling back and forth between both places I'm not exactly sure on the timeline of when Bubble Tea made it to the states, but it seems to be within the last 2-5 years, but I had it all the time 12 years ago in Taiwan at every single drink stand which are literally at least one, if not two or three, per block.

      Try many decades. You need to get out more, grandpa.

      --
      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  5. It exists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's next - multi-use TP ?

    It's called a "Liberal Arts Degree"

    1. Re:It exists by rogoshen1 · · Score: 0

      false. TP has a use. A shitty one, but it's still a use.

    2. Re:It exists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      false. TP has a use. A shitty one, but it's still a use.

      I tell my kids that I refuse to buy expensive toilet paper brands. Why would I pay extra for a fancier product that I'm just going to smear shit on and throw away anyway?

    3. Re:It exists by mschuyler · · Score: 0

      Because it's not as harsh on you hemorrhoids.

      --
      How about a moderation of -1 pedantic.
    4. Re:It exists by rogoshen1 · · Score: 0

      Replying for no other reason than to say, yes we need a -1 pedantic mod option. Good call dude!

  6. Straws... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    Straws have two use cases:
    (1) If you're walking or driving and holding a drink
    (2) If you're disabled.

    I never understood why US restaurants gave straws with glasses or cups. If it's not clean enough to drink from, you shouldn't be drinking from it. If it's clean, you don't need a straw.

    1. Re: Straws... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hate the taste of drinking from a glass.

      At least the ones at local restaurants.

      Maybe it is the soaps.

    2. Re: Straws... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      If there's soap on your glass, you're drinking it anyway. Go to a restaurant that washes its glasses correctly :)

    3. Re:Straws... by fuzznutz · · Score: 1

      Straws have two use cases: (1) If you're walking or driving and holding a drink (2) If you're disabled.

      I never understood why US restaurants gave straws with glasses or cups. If it's not clean enough to drink from, you shouldn't be drinking from it. If it's clean, you don't need a straw.

      (3) You have teeth that are very sensitive to cold. Some of us experience real pain when ice or cold liquids come in contact with our incisors. When I encounter somewhere that does not offer straws (like the zoo) I have to order drinks sans ice.

    4. Re:Straws... by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      you're drinking soda, and care about your tooth enamel.

    5. Re:Straws... by mark-t · · Score: 1

      Why, if you are that concerned about what it would do to your teeth, would you drink soda at all, even if through a straw?

    6. Re:Straws... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Most drinks are refrigerated anyway -- putting ice in them is wasteful anyway and dilutes the taste.

    7. Re:Straws... by jdavidb · · Score: 1

      I never understood why US restaurants gave straws with glasses or cups. If it's not clean enough to drink from, you shouldn't be drinking from it. If it's clean, you don't need a straw.

      Basically you're just a meddling judgmental busybody.

    8. Re:Straws... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The western world figured out brushing their teeth after eating and pretty much took care of that problem.

    9. Re:Straws... by jdavidb · · Score: 2

      Most drinks are refrigerated anyway -- putting ice in them is wasteful anyway and dilutes the taste.

      Waste is when you do something with your property that you don't like - not when somebody else does something with their property that you don't like.

    10. Re:Straws... by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      you must be a lot of fun at parties.

    11. Re: Straws... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but he's a correct judge mental busybody.

    12. Re:Straws... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thread winner.

    13. Re:Straws... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Don't drink stuff that rots your teeth then.

    14. Re:Straws... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Except when it affects YOUR shared environment as well...

    15. Re:Straws... by tepples · · Score: 1

      What does diet soda do to tooth enamel?

    16. Re:Straws... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And are the toothbrushes compostable? Will they be by 2030?

    17. Re:Straws... by WeezulDK · · Score: 1

      One could also argue putting ice actually helps prevent overconsumption of wasteful calories as well, by watering down the drink.

    18. Re:Straws... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should stop pretending people want to share their environment with you.

    19. Re:Straws... by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      It doesn't if proper techniques are employed,

  7. Not that hard to convert by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 2

    They have had tech to make full vegetable fiber straws for at least a decade now, and all of the EU is converting to bio-plastics, so it's not difficult.

    As you scale up production, the prices drop. If you remove the artificial subsides for plastic disposal of non-recyclable materials, you can easily switch, using this thing we like to call "capitalist markets".

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  8. What to do with disposable plastic straws? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    Burn them in an incineration. They are an excellent fuel source. And with a properly designed high-temperature incinerator the pollution is very low. (versus throwing plastic in a camp fire, where the fumes can be quite toxic)

    Waste to energy and recycling can coexist and be beneficial. Some things are practical to recycle. Other things take too much effort to collect and clean. And other things take too much energy to recycle and should be reused as many times as possible (ex: glass, steel).

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    1. Re:What to do with disposable plastic straws? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      A better idea is switch to vegetable fiber or algae/seaweed based fiber straws, which also can be incinerated. Since both sources are carbon sinks, this reduces greenhouse gasses, as opposed to already stored oil used for plastic straws, and the organic based straws are net neutral GHG, and also burn more cleanly.

      Science.

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    2. Re:What to do with disposable plastic straws? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Agreed that fiber based products are often preferable. With old fashion paper drinking straws being an obvious choice.

      One issue I take with bioplastics is they often use food crops to make non-food items (PLA in the US is primarily made from corn starch). That is we could feed hungry people with corn flour, but instead we make biodegradable restaurant containers with it.

      But the whole bioplastic industry is a scam trying to solve a non-problem of carbon-neutral plastics. Petroleum-based plastics are approximately 4% of our petroleum output. The main issue with oil is that we burn so much of it as fuel, not that we're making plastic bags out of it. If I make a widget out of fossil fuels that doesn't degrade for 1000 years, that's a carbon sink. If I burn it so I don't create persistent garbage in the environment, then I've releases some CO2 but compared to all the cars and power plants it's not significant. Bioplastics offering to be biodegradable is a great idea, but in practice much of the PLA available today won't break down without help and can persist in a landfill for decades and possibly centuries.

      What we need instead of bioplastics is to:
      1. actively clean the plastics from the ocean (robots? nets? incineration of fish guts instead of dumping back into the ocean as waste)
      2. quit adding more material to the ocean. (better barges, no dumping in international waters, etc)
      3. don't use fossil fuels as our primary energy source

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    3. Re:What to do with disposable plastic straws? by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Corn is always sub-optimal, due to fertilizers and water required for it.

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    4. Re:What to do with disposable plastic straws? by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

      Yeah, but that's ludicrously expensive compared to making bioplastics in the first place.

      I'm not convinced of that. Maybe little solar powered robots. We don't have to have it done fast either. If it takes a century for robots to clean it up, that would be reasonable. As long as removal of trash is faster than adding of trash. (that last part is the hard part, I think)

      Why make more work cleaning up a problem at the end when you can spend that money preventing the problem occurring?

      Problem is already here. Even if we stopped making it worse today, the problem would still be with us and likely wouldn't go away on its own.

      Ocean scrubbing with robots as the "solution" is a lame and incredibly expensive idea that involves non-existent fantasy tech.

      Harsh. Have you never watched a pool robot? It's not an idea based on a fantasy, it's not even MY idea. Would it scale? Well that's an engineering problem. I don't think we have enough information to even know if it would work or not.

      Not possible, not practical to prevent plastics entering the water system

      Oh everything is possible. We could have a militant faction of GreenPeace running PT Boats and sinking violators. Eventually out-of-date barge operations would be have their fleet at the bottom of the ocean. They can either go bankrupt or fix their shit. (I'm not suggesting that as a first option as it is overly extreme)

      As for plastics entering the waters system through other means. I never claimed that it was necessary to have zero trash. But it logically is possible to reduce the amount that enters. A net zero should even be possible, where we remove (or debris degrades) at a rate as fast or faster than the amount that enters.

      This wouldn't fix the ocean plastics issue.

      Bioplastics primarily addresses the fossil fuel issue. It does not (as I have explained) address the ocean plastic issue. But people selling that crap love to conflate the two issues.

      It would make it worse, since the price of oil would fall, making plastics cheaper.

      I can't think of any examples where we aren't making things out of plastic because it is too expensive today. On the supply-demand curve we may be at maximum demand and could keep feeding supply in to meet it. The material costs could go down if demand for oil were no there, but in some ways our plastic industry is subsidized by the much larger oil industry. Much of the plastic we use comes from the less valuable by-products, rather than the higher profit petroleum products.

       

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    5. Re:What to do with disposable plastic straws? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't understand incinerators. Incinerators burn hotter than the substance itself can to vaporize it. They are externally supplied energy whether that be electricity or nat gas. Incinerators are always a net energy loss. That cup burning in a camp fire is already burning at it's "normal" temp which as you said releases toxic gases. It isn't going to get any hotter on its own until you supply that external energy. Making a trash power plant without external input, like a burning coal in an old style coal plant, will produce the same toxins as throwing it in a camp fire. So now you gotta scrub exhaust....it's a difficult problem to do cheaply.

    6. Re:What to do with disposable plastic straws? by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

      Sure. but you're still going to bring a mop and bucket. You aren't going to turn off the tap and think that the work is half done. You've only done the easy part.

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    7. Re:What to do with disposable plastic straws? by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      They grow hundreds of acres of corn across the road from where I live. No water other than rain is used.

  9. Blanket ban? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Taiwan is planning a blanket ban

    Plastic blankets should be banned. They sound very uncomfortable.

    1. Re: Blanket ban? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, 'fleece' blankets can be made from plastic that was previously plastic bottles, or indeed, straws.

  10. Banning straws probably a good idea by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I hate to admit it, but something I saw on Facebook actually changed my opinion on something.

    In particular it was an image of an animal that had died because it tried to eat a straw, which got stuck in its throat. Seemed like a nasty way to go.

    Combining that and the very slight convenience a straw offers over just drinking from a cup, and I'm in favor of saying most places should not have disposable straws, or at the very least just have straws on request for those that truly need them.

    In the meantime I don't take straws from restaurants anymore, and also pick up any discarded straws I find in the wild and dispose of them.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Banning straws probably a good idea by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      I hate to admit it, but something I saw on Facebook actually changed my opinion on something.

      In particular it was an image of an animal that had died because it tried to eat a straw, which got stuck in its throat.

      Can we fight all the Russian hackers and fake news by giving straws to all Facebook users . . . ?

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:Banning straws probably a good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What exactly is the convenience of drinking from a straw?
      I always prefer to drink from the glass myself.

    3. Re:Banning straws probably a good idea by Dayze!Confused · · Score: 1

      I was just thinking about the structural integrity while reading your comment. There would probably be quite a few spills that happen with cups without lids. But then I started thinking about the coffee cups with the lids that are perforated in a triangular shape. That might be something for the interim. Being able to get rid of the plastic lids would also reduce the plastic used, but once people are trained to drink things without straws then it shouldn't be too hard to get people to not spill drinks without lids, or offer sippy lids that are reusable.

      --
      "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." [Thomas Jefferson]
    4. Re:Banning straws probably a good idea by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      No need to actually lift a cup, just lean over and sip... super lazy.

      It does have more value in a car, where an open cup can spill liquid if you go over bumps. But then as someone else pointed out, you can just use the coffee cup style lids in place of straws.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    5. Re:Banning straws probably a good idea by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      How about "bring your own drinking container and ustensils"?

      It seemed weird to bring my own grocery bags when we started doing it, but now it's part of the daily life.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  11. Why 2030 and not now? by MS · · Score: 1

    Why wait till 2030? We should avoid trash now, immediately. There's no valid reason to postpone a sane decision.

    1. Re:Why 2030 and not now? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      2030 does seems quite far ahead for something like this. Two years should be more than enough for everyone to adjust, they should have said 2020.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  12. Just bottles and cans? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why would they ban all cups? People will be forced to use cans and plastic bottles.

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  17. EU: Speaking of replacement material by DrYak · · Score: 1

    EU (including other European countries like CH) have also banned those plastic bags.

    Most shops have switched to :
      - giving out bags made of *compostable bio-platics* (so you can use them to discard your usual compostable kitchen waste).
      - selling (recycled) paper bags
      - selling higher quality multi-use reusable bags (either fabric or recycled PET plastic).

    Though not an actual ban yet, some places have switched away from plastic cups, etc. :
      - some outdoor festival have switched to compostable cups/plates/cutlery (mostly special wooden/cardboard plates, and bio-plastic cups and cutlery)

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  18. Ah re-usable filth by holophrastic · · Score: 1

    Way to solve a problem by destroying the age-old solution to a long-past problem. The circle of forgetfulness.

    Show of hands: who remembers why we have disposable plastic products in the first place? Anyone? Anyone from Taiwan?

    1. Re:Ah re-usable filth by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      How about everyone carries their own damn stuff instead?

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  19. Dog poop? by RogueWarrior65 · · Score: 1

    What the hell are you supposed to pick up dog poop with? (not the straw)

  20. Get a tiny bottle brush and a reusable straw by p0larity · · Score: 1

    North Americans are too comfortable with just MAKING YOUR OWN MESS SOMEONE ELSE'S PROBLEM.

    Just pick up your damn litter, for a start. Keep it in your pocket. Carry it to the trash can.

    Secondly, don't take all of the disposable crap a store gives you! Take your own cup, your own cutlery. There are tiny ones that fit in your pocket or a bag.

    Third, if you see a mess, make it your problem if reasonable. You can wash your hands afterward. North Americans seem to have a problem picking stuff up or holding on to it for 5 minutes because it's "icky". You just ate that ice cream cone, the package isn't any more icky yet than when you ate it. Put it in the trash.

    BUT YES, THE ANSWER IS TO USE A MULTI-USE STRAW. They exist, they're simple to carry, and it's the responsible thing to do.

    1. Re:Get a tiny bottle brush and a reusable straw by p0larity · · Score: 1

      I say this as a Canadian from Toronto, which is apparently one of the worst cities for trash in North America. So you can see why I'm incensed when people scoff at the idea of being -even remotely responsible-.

      But I'll still keep being that asshole who calls people out on their shit. Throw your trash on the ground where I can see it, yeah, I'll say, "Pick up your trash asshole."

      Just want to make it that tiny bit less comfortable for some douchebag to shit up my city. It's OUR city. Not your messy dorm room.

  21. You're thinking inside the box! Bidets! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The is one of the things where we are the primitives and the Arabs and French ahead of us.

    Connect a hose with a squeezable valve to a pump and then to your toilet's water reservoir ... tadaa ... zero TP needed!

    It requires either a warm climate or some asss drying tech and water heating though.

    But TP is shamefully primitive in comparison.

  22. WTF ... are we that retarded already??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Common sense is now not common anymore?? Seriously?? Have we come that low?

    Because I still remember the times of common sense. I recently rewatched Stargate SG-1, and the common sense was striking! Charakter behavior was just *normal*. But watch SG Atlantis, and you can already see full-on insanity.

    So don''t act like it was always this way. There was a time of sanity between 1969 and 1999.

  23. Why wait? by iq145 · · Score: 1

    Why not now?!

  24. Plastic does damage... by iq145 · · Score: 1

    ...when humans are as irresponsible as they are! https://www.youtube.com/watch?... https://www.youtube.com/watch?...