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Silicon Valley Is Over, Says Silicon Valley (nytimes.com)

An anonymous reader shares a New York Times report: In recent months, a growing number of tech leaders have been flirting with the idea of leaving Silicon Valley. Some cite the exorbitant cost of living in San Francisco and its suburbs, where even a million-dollar salary can feel middle class. Others complain about local criticism of the tech industry and a left-wing echo chamber that stifles opposing views. And yet others feel that better innovation is happening elsewhere. "I'm a little over San Francisco," said Patrick McKenna, the founder of High Ridge Venture Partners who was also on the bus tour. "It's so expensive, it's so congested, and frankly, you also see opportunities in other places." Mr. McKenna, who owns a house in Miami in addition to his home in San Francisco, told me that his travels outside the Bay Area had opened his eyes to a world beyond the tech bubble. "Every single person in San Francisco is talking about the same things, whether it's 'I hate Trump' or 'I'm going to do blockchain and Bitcoin,'" he said. "It's the worst part of the social network."

[...] Complaints about Silicon Valley insularity are as old as the Valley itself. Jim Clark, the co-founder of Netscape, famously decamped for Florida during the first dot-com era, complaining about high taxes and expensive real estate. Steve Case, the founder of AOL, has pledged to invest mostly in start-ups outside the Bay Area, saying that "we've probably hit peak Silicon Valley." But even among those who enjoy living in the Bay Area, and can afford to do so comfortably, there's a feeling that success has gone to the tech industry's head. "Some of the engineers in the Valley have the biggest egos known to humankind," Mr. Khanna, the Silicon Valley congressman, said during a round-table discussion with officials in Youngstown.

31 of 304 comments (clear)

  1. Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by Zorro · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/03/05/epidemic-of-car-break-ins-makes-parking-a-nightmare-for-bay-area-drivers/

    SAN FRANCISCO (KPIX) — Car break-ins are on the rise across the Bay Area. In fact, 2017 was a record-breaking year for our three largest cities.

    We’re seeing record numbers of car burglaries in San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose. Chances it has happened to you or someone you know.

    San Francisco leads the pack with 31,120 break-ins last year.

    In the same period, San Jose reported 6,476 car burglaries. That number is the highest the city has ever seen and a 17 percent increase compared to 2016.

    It was also a record year in Oakland with 10,007 reported cases in 2017, up 32% compared to the previous year.

    1. Re:Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by valnar · · Score: 2

      Not to throw this into the right wing, but is it residents or illegals responsible for the rise in crime? Just curious.

    2. Re:Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by crgrace · · Score: 2

      I live in San Francisco. Had my car broken into three times over the last seven years.

      My favorite "experience", though, was this year. Someone stole our registration tags off our car while it was parked near my wife's work. We found out because we got a ticket for not having a registered vehicle.

      So, we sent it an appeal that included the police report and a photocopy of our valid DMV registration. Open and shut, right?

      Wrong. Our appeal was denied (!) and we were told we had to pay. We could go to their meeting in person to appeal again but I don't have the patience or time for that. It wasn't that expensive, so we paid the f-ing thing.

      So my take-away is they should change the SF Tourist Slogan to something like: "San Francisco: The City Where you Get a Ticket for Being a Crime Victim".

    3. Re:Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by Thelasko · · Score: 4, Interesting

      In a city where a six figure salary can barely get by, I'm not surprised there is a crime problem.

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    4. Re:Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by tatman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wrong. Our appeal was denied (!) and we were told we had to pay. We could go to their meeting in person to appeal again but I don't have the patience or time for that. It wasn't that expensive, so we paid the f-ing thing.

      This is probably the reason they denied your appeal....they "knew" you would pay it rather than deal with the hassle. Its just another form of robbery imo.

      --
      I've always said English was my second language. Had Romeo and Juliet been written in C, I might have understood it.
    5. Re:Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by zieroh · · Score: 2

      Anyone that lives in the Bay Area and owns a car deserves to have it broken into or stolen. Why the fuck would you even?

      Sounds like you don't know the Bay Area very well. Or at least not very much of it. There are large swaths of the Bay Area -- especially Silicon Valley -- where mass transit isn't useful and cars are the main mode of transit.

      --
      People who say "sheeple" have about as much sophistication as an AOL user, and in fact are probably actually AOL users.
    6. Re:Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sure, there's plenty of parts of the city that are clean, but the downtown area is disgusting.

      I live near downtown and the streets and alleys around me are filthy and inhabited by vagrants.

      Filthy people lay on the sidewalks passed out on drugs. People openly smoke crack and shoot up in the streets and the police just pass on by. When the sun comes out for a few days the stench of piss fills the nostrils. It's not uncommon to see shit on the sidewalk. SoMa and the Tenderloin are even worse.

      Have you seen the filth around City Hall? Have you seen how Fisherman's Wharf and Market Street around Union Square are pressure washed multiple times per week? Probably not, because they do it late at night or early in the morning when nobody is around. I see it happen when I'm out running.

      But really as disgusted as I am by what I see around me, I have to admit that it's nothing compared to what you'll see in the streets out in the industrial area around the Bayview area. It's an actual shantytown ghetto out there.

    7. Re:Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by Solandri · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's mostly due to Proposition 47. It was billed as a way to reduce overcrowding in jails, but did so by reducing the property theft crimes where less than $950 was stolen/damaged from a felony to a misdemeanor. In California, you can break into and steal from as many cars as you want now, and as long as you keep the property loss below $950 per incident, the only punishment you'll get (if you're caught) is a fine and maybe 1 year of jail time. In many cases the police can't be bothered to prosecute these cases anymore because it wastes more of their time and money than the thief's.

      There was initially a downtick in property theft crimes in 2015-2016 (part of a 30-year downward trend), leading Prop 47 proponents to claim they were right that it wouldn't affect crime rates. But it's looking more like it just took petty thieves a couple years to get a feel for how the new law worked.

    8. Re:Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by ichthus · · Score: 2

      It depends on your metric. If you're considering fossil fuel consumption, public transportation is the winner. If you're thinking about personal time spent getting to where you want to go, a private vehicle is likely more efficient.

      --
      sig: sauer
    9. Re: Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by Reverend+Green · · Score: 2

      Bumpkin. Live in a real city for a while then tell me how that private transport is working for you.

    10. Re: Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by Shotgun · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If by "real city", you mean "ant farm for humans", I'll pass.

      --
      Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
      Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
    11. Re:Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 3, Informative

      I guess NBC is part of the conservative movement? Or perhaps it's those stalwart conservative professors at Berkeley who make things up... I work a few days each week at Civic Center, and the feces, urine, and needles are quite real.

      --
      Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    12. Re:Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by outlander · · Score: 2

      Yeah, it does happen. It's unpleasant and noisome and it does occur more than it should.

      But then the City has become stratified - it's terribly expensive to live there.
      Public conveniences like bathrooms are surprisingly few and far between.
      For better or for worse, it's got a large homeless population.
      And whether or not people like to admit it, that large homeless population is made of humans who need to eat, breathe, and empty themselves just like the rest of us.
      But there's really nowhere they can do it.
      There aren't public restrooms, in part bc of the hysteria after Sept 11th when the public restrooms in BART and MUNI were shut down, and partially because other bathrooms are shut to them bc some of the homeless use bathrooms to shoot up or whatnot, making them less safe for the rest of the population.
      So they poop in the street, and it sucks.

      Lest people think this is unique to SF, it's not. It seems to happen in every reasonably warm city in this country, from Savannah GA to a number of Gulf Coast cities to Austin and Dallas and more. And, more and more, it seems to be showing up in the suburbs, as people who have been comfortable up to now lose jobs and become homeless (for whatever reason).

      The Valley isn't unique, but because of the scrutiny it receives as an oasis of wealth, it's often a harbinger of what will happen elsewhere in places that don't have the economic power to maintain a small segment of the population while the rest suffers.

      And so I kind of have to think that it's not 'The Valley' that's over, it's the economic model that marginalizes people with limited skills while handsomely rewarding people with relatively narrow, specialized skillsets. As much as I love how much freedom and power tech provides, it also accelerates inequality (at least, in its current form) and ensures that non-STEM students are going to scrape by for a living....and not every kid is a STEM learner.
      IMHO, we as a nation need to start thinking about how we create opportunities and economic security for people who are not going to be university material - that will stem the tide, maybe, if we start realizing that we all need the people who do the thankless jobs. It's gonna be a long, long time until robots can take over, and I'd assume avoid pushing people to the brink of homelessness and beyond just because their job pays so little they can't live within an economically viable distance of their job.

      --
      "Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
    13. Re: Also Crime and Sh*t in the Streets. by Reverend+Green · · Score: 2

      Where I'm living now, in Ho Chi Minh City, motorbikes are the primary form of transport. The bikes are fun, quite fuel efficient, and usually a quick way to get to your destination. Except at rush hour, when a 2 mile trip takes over an hour.

      It's not the worst form of transport, but there are major downsides. The air pollution is godawful, riding a motorbike is much more dangerous than driving a car, and rain storms slow the city to a crawl. Then there's the matter of peak capacity mentioned above.

      If you've never ridden a tiny motorcycle at 3km/h in a dense crowd of thousands and thousands of commuters - try it! It's a terribly slow, mephitic, dangerous, and unpleasant way to get where you're going. But it's quite an interesting cultural experience.

  2. Moving SV, Not Leaving It by tsqr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From TFA: The trip, which took place on a luxury bus outfitted with a supply of vegan doughnuts and coal-infused kombucha, was known as the “Comeback Cities Tour.”

    Vegan doughnuts. Coal-infused kombucha. Wherever it is these people think they're going to relocate to, it looks like they're taking Silicon Valley with them.

    1. Re:Moving SV, Not Leaving It by EvilSS · · Score: 5, Funny

      From TFA: The trip, which took place on a luxury bus outfitted with a supply of vegan doughnuts and coal-infused kombucha, was known as the “Comeback Cities Tour.”

      Vegan doughnuts. Coal-infused kombucha. Wherever it is these people think they're going to relocate to, it looks like they're taking Silicon Valley with them.

      I mean, you can't just pull them out cold turkey, they would go into shock. You have to ease them into it slowly. Like putting a fish in a new aquarium.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    2. Re:Moving SV, Not Leaving It by ranton · · Score: 2

      I welcome them to come to Miami and try their hippy dippy anti-Trump shit here. Miami is a rough town and we're proud of it. And yes, every single Cuban I know is an avid Trump supporter. Which is funny since the SV left thinks Hispanics are against Trump.

      Miami-Dade county voted for Clinton by 29 points over Trump, so it appears leftist anti-Trump individuals would fit in with a large subset (and likely majority) of Miami's population.

      --
      -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
  3. FAKE NEWS by Merk42 · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's not over, Season 5 starts March 25th.

  4. There is an answer to this by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Funny

    The obvious conclusion from the wave of car breakins in San Francisco is this - not only do we need self driving cars, but we need self-defending cars and a amendment to the second amendment that specifically lays out the right for self driving cars to be armed.

    Thus we have the three laws of self-driving cars:

    1) A self-driving car may not cause harm to other cars, or through inaction allow humans to damage or scuff the paint job of another car.

    2) A self-driving car must obey orders given by the owner except when it would conflict with the protection of itself or other self-driivng cars.

    3) A self-driving car must protect its own existence unless self-immolation would protect cars of higher value, or result in a really awesome YouTube video.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  5. If the Bay Area were really "over"... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If the Bay Area were really "over", then the traffic issues and high rents would disappear overnight. The Bay Area is crowded and expensive because (surprise!) people actually want to live, work, and start businesses there!

    Good climate, access to research universities (Stanford, Berkeley, etc), a collection of extremely smart, talented people are pluses. In many ways, the area is a victim of its own success.

    1. Re:If the Bay Area were really "over"... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Just making it in Silicon Valley with interesting people, good climate, beaches, beautiful scenery 50 miles away, is a lot better than living it up in Arizona or Michigan.

      Yes, Michigan is terrible. Don't live here. We certainly do not have a larger number of higher ranking universities than the entire state of California has to offer. We certainly don't have gorgeous beaches that are so uncrowded many days you can treat them like your own private resort. We lack culture and do not have "extremely smart and talented people" having the area with the highest concentration of professional engineers the world has ever seen. There is no diversity. Literally no middle-eastern, latino, or black people live here. It's so white and racist. A 3000 sq ft beachfront home with 300 feet of personal white sand doesn't cost less than 350k. The rents are high and salaries low.

      No don't come here. It's flyover country. Cold. Miserable. Backwards hick-infested land. Terrible place. Just terrible. Stay on the coasts.

  6. There are reasons to either embrace or avoid SV by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 2

    This handwaving article only makes these nominal "leaders" sound vacuous in their treatment of the issue. Not saying that these people are vacuous. Or not. However what comes through is a lot of whining while they are coddled during their looking-for-tax-breaks-from-cash-strapped-cities tour.

    In a nutshell, if you need to grow a company very quickly for strategic reasons, you need access to many seasoned engineers or you will be throwing your money down the toilet. You cannot just import 5 solid engineers from the Valley and hope that 50 college grads mixed in will figure it out -- that doesn't work.

    There are many options if your business model is around organic growth over a decade(s). But that is not really what this article is about.

  7. All the reasons to move here are gone by t0qer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    My family has been in San Jose over 100 years. We lived through many tech and population booms, but they were always manageable. Traffic wasn't too bad in the 70's and 80's. Schools were pretty good, housing was affordable, and there was enough space to feel like you could escape the bay area.

    90's came, and that's when a huge influx of people started moving in. Every square inch of buildable land was built out. None of it had any of the charm, uniqueness or craftsmanship of the previous architecture. Slowly we started seeing OSB and stucco square boxes everywhere. A lot of places started doing "mixed use" putting retail on the bottom and residential on top. Our politicians, fueled by special interests began dismantling laws meant to keep the growth in check. As more people came in, the freeways congested. Not just Monday through Friday, but every day of the week. We had a small stall during 9/11 as the economic downturn caused a lot of people to lose their jobs, but through the 2000's and into the 2010's the growth was fast and steady.

    Today it's very very hard living here. State income tax is sky high. Property taxes, home prices, hell even rentals are so high that it causes everything else to be expensive. Food, gas, clothes, cars, everything is $0.50 higher than it would be in any neighboring state. Even if you wanted to take a drive over the hill for the day to Santa Cruz, you can't, because everyone has the same idea. The gas is sky high, and a night at the movies for your family is a $100 affair. Some people act like $100 isn't a lot of money, well it is when you have a family of 4. Don't get me wrong, I love my kids, and in the words of Goonies Data's father, "My greatest invention" Your prison is basically stay home. At least my family has computers and can keep ourselves entertained, but we can't let the kids go out and play because there are 4 sex offenders on every block. It's not the life I grew up with.

    At some point, maybe you do get a vacation. You pack your wife, kids, and dog into the car to drive up the Oregon coast. You realize that slower life you had, the decent people, the lack of trash, graffitti and income inequity simply don't exist. People don't go 15 miles under the speed limit in the fast lane, and if they do, they move over. Traffic doesn't crawl to a stop because of a little rain. Nobody tries to run you over in a crosswalk. You can all go to the movies for $40 less than in the bay area. Gas stations actually have employees that fill your tank so you don't have to get out of you car.. It's such an odd feeling NOT having to pump your own gas. As if.. customers were important up there. Please, thank you, you're welcome aren't considered quaint little constructs, but are demanded.

    I'm really getting tired of living and working here. I just don't feel it anymore. I'm tired of the tribal politics. Tired of my neighbors constantly trying to get into my business, or my employer spying on my social media. I have to have some forms of "social media" now, every employer needs linkedin as a minimum. You also need indeed, monster, dice, all told at least a good 6 profiles so your employer knows you're a real person here.

    It's not all bad, there are some good points, but are they even worth mentioning? Crime, cost of living, homeless suffering, bad schools, the list goes on. Not sure if it's worth the salary anymore.

    1. Re:All the reasons to move here are gone by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Funny

      FYI...

      1) You get your gas pumped for you in Oregon because someone thought it would be a great (protectionist) idea to make it a LAW to not allow folks to pump their own gas in most circumstances. It sucks waiting for someone to amble out and pump your gas for you on your commute (and if it's someone new to the job, well, that car wash you did the day before just went to hell...)

      2) A lot of us drive slow as hell up here. Kinda sucks, but fortunately I only have to commute about once a week, so for me at least, it's tolerable.

      3) Oregon is full. Move to Washington. ;)

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
  8. On the East coast they say that about NYC by edi_guy · · Score: 4, Insightful
    We know this to be tried and true Slashdot click-bait. Damn I miss actual technology & science articles. There's some subset of people who want SV to implode, others to defend it. Some predict the whole place will fall into the ocean ("A View to a Kill" style) or that SV is just at the cusp of a 1000 year AI-induced dominance.

    But you get the same talk about other places like NYC, London, etc. It's too expensive, traffic is terrible, its crowded. But those places and their respective industries still thrive despite some firms leaving, and others setting up shop. Nothing is forever, but for our respective generations things won't change that dramatically. Heck, even Hong Kong was supposed to empty out after China took over, but it's as strong as ever. Just that those people now have vacation homes in Vancouver too.

    People should just be content with where they want to live and work not worry about everyone else. It's exhausting. You want to live in the countryside and telecommute, kudos to you. You want a three car garage in the burbs, good for you. Wanna spend $3k/mo for a 1 BR in SF, why not.

  9. Wrong idea about "conservative" by SuperKendall · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The word or idea itself (conservative) is not the ideal way to run a small tech start-up for example. Being conservative implies that you don't like taking risks

    That is totally wrong. It means conserving energy for things that are important. So risk taking is fine, but you can be prepared for failure or alternative paths before you take risks, not just jump in blindly.

    It can also mean taking BIGGER risks, just fewer of them. Basically you cannot ascribe risk taking with a political bent, as people of all persuasions are happy to take risks, they just have different approaches or conditions.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Wrong idea about "conservative" by sfcat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mitigating failure and taking fewer risks costs you time and opportunities. That's radioactive rat poison in the fast-paced tech company world. You get your lunch eaten moving slowly and deliberately as more agile and stupid companies innovate ahead of you. Fast paced innovating start-up companies aren't being run by conservatives and that's a basic statement of fact. I think you can ascribe risk taking to political bent though I would more classify it as philosophy than one's own politics. I do this simply because big C Conservatism as a political force has been deviating far from little c conservatism as a philosophy.

      I've seen this attitude cripple and break more startups than I care to count. Its great to innovate, but first do the basics correctly and without those basics your innovation means shit. Example, spending all your time experimenting with Machine Learning while your site has > 4 sec latency costing the company over a billion dollars a year in revenue. And this isn't the unique weird case, this is the typical case. You are making the classic mistake of thinking you can learn from other's success. That's proof by induction (which isn't valid) and very prone to missing the reasons for success. Learning happens best after failure, not success and perhaps that's your real problem, you don't learn from your failures very well and repeat them often which is something SV has done quite a bit.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
  10. I disliked the bay area by quietwalker · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It wasn't the weather - that was great.
    It wasn't the traffic - I grew up outside of chicago and lived all over the country. It's not fun, but it's not a big deal.
    It wasn't the cost of living - pay was commiserate with the increased costs.

    I loved that the Frys was right down the street, that I could get great food from a million different cultures easily, and that there was so much to do and see and hear.

    It was the people, though, that made it horrible. Shallow, money-oriented, image-driven, always so focused on labeling everyone: Suit, Hippy, LGBT Activist, Clubber, Gang Member, Artist, etc.

    Story time: I worked at a big company in the area, we had 3 buildings on the campus I was on, each 3 floors, each with at least 1000 employees. At 4:30, I was working on my floor by myself. How do I know? The overhead fluorescents were sensor based, and only the one by my cube was still on. I was organizing test results in an excel sheet when I heard the mechanical 'ka-chunk' and humming noise that indicated another group of lights had just spun up.

    It was the cleaning staff. I watched as each bank of lights turned on as they made their way down the path, a slow snake of lights as they explored the bin in each cube, till they arrived at mine.

    He was an illegal. I'm not judging. He radiated it without shame. He wore that identity like a comfortable sweater, and exuded it in his body language and broken english. Folks like that probably don't get the acknowledgement they deserve, so I made it a point to always smile, make eye contact, and nod to them when I see them.

    So I smile, make eyecontact, and nod at him. He looks at the screen, sees numbers, looks at me - young, working late by the standards of my coworkers - makes some sort of decision about social interactions - and starts giving me quetionable stock market tips in a thick Latin (or maybe Portuguese) accent.

    So I thank him for that, smile broadly and make sure to include my eyes in the smile so he knows I appreciate it, make some statement about how work never seems to end for folks like us, and go back to it.

    But internally, I'm putting him in the bucket with everyone else. He can't even speak english, and what he wants to do is talk stocks? This is a guy who - and yes, I am judging here a bit - probably hasn't got a legitimate bank account, much less trading account, and he vacuums office buildings for a living. Given his current situation, he does not instill within me the belief that he is a highly successful backchannel stock market advisor. ... but that's not his fault. He seemed like a hard working, genuine person in all other ways. See, that's what this area does to you. You end up getting hollowed out, till you're focused on the money and outer appearances. You start thinking those are the most important things, the things that defines you and allows you to relate to others.

    The mail guy (we were big enough to have an actual mail department) bought an 80,000 dollar car. He HAD to. He couldn't afford it, but he HAD to have it. He couldn't justify it any other way except that it was expected, knowing he had to, to be known, caring that others cared about him for his car.

    That's my takeaway from the bay area. Nice place to visit, but for the people.

  11. Re:Bad Political Statements? by Citizen+of+Earth · · Score: 2

    A "liberal" supports free speech. A "leftist" wants to take away free speech from others.

  12. Re:Hating Trump by Bryansix · · Score: 2

    How do you deal with being on the Internet when lurking around every corner might be a comment or idea you disagree with?

  13. Re:No news here, move along by Carewolf · · Score: 2

    Are you on crack? There's a huge number of top tech companies based in SF. Uber, Twitter, Square, Dolby. Google, Yahoo, and Cisco have big offices there. It's not as big as Palo Alto (and doesn't have have the space for the huge office complexes Google and so forth have) but it's definitely one of the top tech cities in the Bay.

    Those are all in the bay area not actually in SF or even near SF.