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Lyft Says Its Revenue Is Growing Nearly 3x Faster Than Uber's (techcrunch.com)

U.S. ride-sharing company Lyft says it passed $1 billion in revenue last year and that its revenue grew 168 percent year over year in the fourth quarter of 2017, almost three times faster than Uber's reported 61 percent growth. "Uber, of course, is still much larger than Lyft -- it generated a reported $7.5 billion in revenue last year and operates in many more cities and countries," notes Recode. "While its fourth-quarter growth may have been smaller than Lyft's percentage-wise, it was still almost certainly many times larger dollar-wise. Both companies are still unprofitable." From the report: But the big-picture reality is that despite Uber's head start, its early dominance, ability to raise massive amounts of financing, aggressive (often allegedly illegal) growth tactics, faster move into self-driving cars and everything else in its favor, it has not been able to destroy Lyft. Instead, Lyft capitalized somewhat on Uber's missteps and unsavory reputation, raised another $2 billion last year, gained market share, launched its first international market last year (Toronto) and seems poised to exist for the foreseeable future.

53 comments

  1. So half as fast as Trump's prison race in months by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess metrics matter.

  2. Growth numbers are useless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You canâ(TM)t compare companies by growth rate. If I start an uber/lyft competitor today, and Iâ(TM)ll have one customer tomorrow, my growth rate would be higher then both combined.

    1. Re:Growth numbers are useless by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Growth Rates are relevant when comparing similar sized companies. Also this metric is useful to see if competitors are catching up.

      But like all metrics, you can't rely on one golden metric to tell you what is going on. You need to look at as many as possible and understand their reasoning.

      Metrics are tools to help manage what you choose to investigate,not the final outcome.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  3. as fast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As fast, not faster.
    That's the proper way to compare. Three times faster is ambiguous at best. Three times as fast is clear and unambiguous.

    1. Re:as fast by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Context, my pedantic friend, context. In this case, the phrasing is not at all ambiguous because they give us exact growth rates of both companies (168% and 61% growth, respectively). There is no confusion at all.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:as fast by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One must seek out teaching opportunities where one can.

    3. Re:as fast by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      You're right, it's not ambiguous. In this case it's clearly wrong.

    4. Re:as fast by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      The text clearly conveys what the author intended, so as language it has succeeded.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    5. Re:as fast by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

      The text clearly conveys what the author intended, so as language it has succeeded.

      ok. But presumably you do concede that the proper way to compare in these case is with "as fast", not faster. Why support doing it incorrectly when the correct way is so simple and clear?

    6. Re:as fast by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Because I hate pendency more than I hate meaningless grammar errors.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  4. Frenemies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm starting to think these two companies are "frenemies" engaged in cooperative branding campaign to make sure the public knows about BOTH companies and their supposed rivalry. The fake conflict creates an emotion in the reader of the "news," and the emotion causes the reader to remember the brand, which creates a false sense of recognition later, and it's that split second of false recognition that actually gets the sale.

    tl;dr: This is an advertisement. The best way to deal with these illegal taxi services is to just ignore them.

    1. Re:Frenemies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So long as an actual patriot gets to torture one of Trump's sons in prison, does it even matter which one?

  5. Re:So half as fast as Hillary's Ku Klux Klan race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Have a great...

    KK. .k. H KK. .k. C KK. .k.
    KK. k . I KK. k . L KK. k .
    KK k .. L KK k .. I KK k ..
    KKk u . L Kkl ux. N Kk lan.
    KK k .. A KK k .. T KK k ..
    KK. k . R KK. k . O KK. k .
    KK. .k. Y KK. .k. N KK. .k.

    Hillary for KKK President!

  6. Re:So half as fast as Hillary's Ku Klux Klan race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So to digest your post, we've got a Hillary-enthusiast and a KKK proponent in the same person? Gee.

  7. The maths checks out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3 x 0 = 0

  8. Ehh, isn't that easy? by Ecuador · · Score: 1

    Isn't it easy to have more growth when you have much more room for growth?
    I wonder if Lyft uses illegal tactics like Uber. The latest I heard about UBER, in Greece they provide fake private contracts to their drivers, since they operate there under the guise of renting vehicles (which has a 6-hour minimum), so the driver has to give a contract to the customer which says they hire the car for 6 hours and have to pay a substantially larger amount than the fare, and if they are stopped by police show that and say the driver & customer are friends/family who rented a car. Quite smart, basically it makes the driver and the customer accomplices to fraud and UBER is whistling at the sidelines, reaping the rewards...

    --
    Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
    1. Re: Ehh, isn't that easy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, market makers profit, but the real winners are service providers and service consumers who trade freely with each other. So long as Uber doesnâ(TM)t schedule the next date until after the current passenger dismissed the ride, how is prorated refund of unused services illegal? Of course the established rent seekers will complain about this arrangement, but too bad.

  9. They're both as unethical as each other. by Jarwulf · · Score: 1

    They have the exact same basic model at the core. Lyft just virtue signals about feminism and social justice more often to keep millennials and hipster reporters from buzzfeed off their case.

    1. Re:They're both as unethical as each other. by TWX · · Score: 1

      No they don't. Uber's current model's only purpose is to raise its profile and tide it over until it has self-driving vehicles, at which point it will stop using human drivers for at least its primary/basic service to move passengers around. Lyft, if they have an interest in self-driving cars, doesn't seem to actively pursue it. They certainly haven't gotten caught in industrial espionage.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re:They're both as unethical as each other. by hazardPPP · · Score: 1

      Lyft, if they have an interest in self-driving cars, doesn't seem to actively pursue it.

      Really? Are you sure about that?

    3. Re:They're both as unethical as each other. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have the exact same basic model at the core. Lyft just virtue signals about feminism and social justice more often to keep millennials and hipster reporters from buzzfeed off their case.

      That and their app doesn't continuously track you

    4. Re: They're both as unethical as each other. by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no shit: the mustache is obviously a symbol for lesbianism... as for what might turn it pink, I'll leave that as an exercise for the reader.

  10. not ride sharing, is ride selling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not disruptive, is illegal and unethical

    just more corporate exploitation and disregard for law and fairness

    1. Re:not ride sharing, is ride selling by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, as in that law that we paid fair and square for!

      - signed your rent-seeking parasitic regulatory capturing taxi mob overlords

      As someone who spent many nights waiting half an hour or whatever for cabs to come, I do a happy dance on their grave every time an uber shows up in 2 minutes. Good riddance.

    2. Re:not ride sharing, is ride selling by MightyYar · · Score: 2

      It's horrible when the government leaves people alone. Horrible. They really should control every aspect of your life, including how you use your personal property and how you choose to make some extra money.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  11. SLASHDOT: Lyft == Good; Uber == Bad, we get it.... by gDLL · · Score: 0

    As if daily negative texts about Uber weren't enough, now time to enter stage the "solution": Lyft :)

  12. Wow revenue! by spacec0w · · Score: 2

    I think it's sad how little commentary focuses on how both Uber and Lyft are so unprofitable. I mean they are wildly popular, but until they can make serious money off their business model I don't see why they aren't seen a mild failure by non-investors. They will likely only do so after completely eliminating all competition, after most licensed taxi drivers have lost their jobs (that aren't subsidized by investor capital) and many transit systems are gutted. Similar case to Amazon. Which investors effectively subsidized over the past decade, and will continue to do so until they have run all competition into the ground and start turning significant profits.

    1. Re: Wow revenue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amazon makes 8 billions profits per year now... choose another one...

    2. Re:Wow revenue! by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      Amazon turns a huge profit. Just look at their SEC filings. There's a difference between gross profit and net profit. Many businesses, especially early on, use up their gross profit on capital investment, R&D, etc. They could stop doing that if they want and allocate the money into net profit, but investors typically don't care about that as much as growth.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    3. Re:Wow revenue! by spacec0w · · Score: 1

      "The profits from A.W.S. represented 56 percent of Amazon’s total operating income, even though the $2.57 billion in revenue from A.W.S. — up 64 percent from a year earlier — amounted to less than 9 percent of total revenue." https://www.nytimes.com/2016/0...

    4. Re:Wow revenue! by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      So what is your point? There's nothing here about profits. Take a look at their SEC filings, gross profit is positive for every major aspect of their business.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    5. Re: Wow revenue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's 2016 article you stupid !!!

    6. Re:Wow revenue! by spacec0w · · Score: 1

      I understand they are profitable now. I never said the opposite. But the majority of their profit comes from something totally unrelated to what their ultimate purpose is: to be the sole provider of everything physical you buy. It has taken them more than 20 years to come to where they are now, and most of that time what brought them the most revenue did not bring them very much profit. My point is that their incredible investor backing enabled this. Without it, it never would have happened. I must add right away that I'm not a total idiot and I do understand generally how capitalism works, but I just find it strange when "disruptive technologies" which are causing sea changes in American society are largely investor driven for such a long time. And are not based on an actual profitable product itself. This is relatively new! It's incredible to me that in your Uber ride you are only paying around 40% (https://medium.com/@parismarx/uber-is-not-price-competitive-with-transit-3ab1be13d9d5) of the cost.

    7. Re:Wow revenue! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To add a bit to your amazon analysis, AWS is as commodity/utility as one can get... it's like the ConEd of computing. The high profits won't last---just like they don't last for any utility.

      Yes, they're the market leader, because all the other companies sat on their buts and ignored this demand. But that is changing.

    8. Re:Wow revenue! by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      Ah I see your point. I'd be interested to see when each line of business became profitable in this sense, maybe someday I will go through the filings. Although if they weren't public the whole time that would be futile.

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    9. Re:Wow revenue! by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Amazon has profited 2 billion dollars over the last 20years.

      That is very different than Uber, which has been losing money for a very long time now.

      Amazon was profitable in year 4 (2003), Uber is still losing tons of money in year 9.

      In general Amazon's losses were shrinking year on year, Ubers are growing.

      Source for 20year profit.

      https://revenuesandprofits.com...

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    10. Re:Wow revenue! by mysidia · · Score: 1

      Similar case to Amazon.

      No... Amazon is immensly profitable. It is just that their investors reward Amazon's profitability with a MASSIVE amount of market capital, and Amazon aggressively re-invests More than its profits into growing its business, and right now there is a LOT of perceived room for Amazon to grow.

  13. Yes, but where's the model for making profit? by Bearhouse · · Score: 2

    I get it...get through insane amounts of cash running after revenue and market share...VCs keep it coming in anticipation of cashing-out when you list. But...are people really that dumb, after being burned by a bunch of other dud Unicorns?
    Who the hell would buy Uber today? They're destroying billions of dollars a year, with no signs of how to make a profit...neither have Lyft

    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2...

    1. Re:Yes, but where's the model for making profit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If people keep giving them money, you want them to turn it down?

      The real question is, how do these investors think they'll ever get their money back? Sure, maybe the first ones, but anyone investing in these companies now... seems a bit crazy.

  14. EXPLAIN TO ME Please!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How the hell those 2 companies can be unprofitable???
    All they do is provide an apps to driver and take money from passengers??
    How can this make millions and billions in revenue, and not make a single profit?!?!
    It's a serious question! Anyone got an idea????

    1. Re:EXPLAIN TO ME Please!!! by TokyoJimu · · Score: 1

      Because they subsidize each ride in their quest for higher market share. And further, many drivers are also subsidizing the rides due to their poor understanding of the actual costs of operating a motor vehicle.

  15. Business... by gDLL · · Score: 1

    I don't mean to sound critical, but have you ever ran a business? Income is more important than profit because it's harder to generate income than profit. When a new business is starting up ppl tend to operate at a loss and invest all profit into development (think buying a better bagel making machine if you make bagels). I would guess these guys do the same thing only at a bigger scale both temporally and financially. Dunno what you mean about taxis but where I live in Europe there are still plenty of taxis going arround. I was talking to a ridesharing driver (not Uber's, but some local competitor here) and he was saying that the market is pretty much stable for both ridesharing and taxis, yes anecdotal but still...

  16. Revenue is easy if you don't care about profits by sjbe · · Score: 1

    I don't mean to sound critical, but have you ever ran a business? Income is more important than profit because it's harder to generate income than profit.

    No it isn't and I can prove it. Start a business selling $2 bills for $1. I guarantee you that you will have a HUGE amount of revenue but you'll also be losing money faster than you can say "chapter 7 bankruptcy". It's easy to generate revenue when you are giving selling something that people want for less than it actually costs to provide. What is hard is generating profitable revenue. Growing the top line is difficult only when you have to generate sales that ALSO make a profit.

    1. Re:Revenue is easy if you don't care about profits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You didn't really prove anything. I see that you're attempting to present a counterexample, but your example has negative income per transaction; to be a counterexample it would need positive income. That's not exactly the same thing as "revenue", but arguably your example has no revenue either (that's a matter of semantics - are you being paid for those bills or receiving change?).

  17. Re:So half as fast as Hillary's Ku Klux Klan race by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Itâ(TM)s her turn!

  18. Fuck Uber by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They bait and switched me out of $6, made me wait 90 minutes for a ride, and refused to refund me. Have used Lyft ever since.

    And the weekend before this inciden4, I had spent over $200 on Ubers.

    Guess they're going to learn about customer satisfaction the hard way.

  19. "Start a business selling $2 bills for $1." by gDLL · · Score: 0

    Only that's not a business, that's giving away money which can be used for whatever else. Now try applying your example to something that is a little harder to consume. Think promotions, if they don't add to the bottom line, then why on earth do they exist ?????

  20. $3.39/hour by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would Lyft's revenue be where it is if they paid their drivers a living wage?

  21. Lyft rider - for now... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In recent months every time I've ordered an Uber the car has either been (or seemed) older or of questionable cleanness, or it has been a bare bones tin can, think bog standard Chevy Cruze that sounds like it's going to shake apart. Through Lyft, I've gotten nicer vehicles (mostly Camrys and Accords, and even a Mercedes in the mix). As long as that's my experience, I will be using Lyft. But like most people I'll change in a heartbeat if something better comes along. This is not a business that elicits much loyalty from customers...