Talent War in Silicon Valley Demands High Salary (axios.com)

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Talent War in Silicon Valley Demands High Salary (axios.com)

Posted by msmash on Monday April 30, 2018 @12:00AM from the money-power dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Employees at Google's parent company Alphabet earned "a median pay package of more than $197,000" in 2017, around 18% lower than Facebook's median salary of $240,000, the Wall Street Journal reports. Per the Journal, this illustrates the competitive "talent war in Silicon Valley, where talented engineers are in limited supply." These two salaries were more than $100,000 above Amazon's median pay, which sat at $28,446. The median price for a home in Silicon Valley is upwards of $1 million, in Seattle the median home price is just under $800,000.

189 comments

Min score:

Reason:

Sort:

Median Salary by Talderas · 2018-04-30 00:08 · Score: 4, Insightful

There's nothing valuable or sane about comparing Amazon's median salary to that of Facebook or Alphabet. When either of the latter two start employing thousands of low wage workers you'll see their median salary plummet to Amazon levels.
But hey, I guess we can't expect the Wall Street Journal to apply basic critical thinking skills.

--
"Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
1. Re:Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 00:30 · Score: 0, Interesting
  
  This same bit of basic mathematics will also skew the CEO / median worker pay ratio that the flawed Dodd-Frank Act has mandated companies start reporting. These people hate capitalism and market-based rugged individualism that has made the USA the most successful company in the history of the planet.
2. Re:Median Salary by kenh · 2018-04-30 00:33 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  I'd be curious to see Amazon's median salary minus the warehouse workers. They compared two marketing/advertising giants with a retail enterprise, and we're supposed to feel bad that Amazon's tens of thousands of warehouse workers don't earn a quarter-million dollars/year like top-talent programmers and technology specialists?
  Puh-leeze.
  
  --
  Ken
3. Re:Median Salary by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2018-04-30 00:44 · Score: 2
  
  Yes, but it is proof that it is MAXIMUM WAGE, not MINIMUM WAGE, which drives inflation.
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
4. Re: Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:09 · Score: 0
  
  There are also no distribution centers in Seattle so kinda pointless for a home comparison too.
  I think including Seattle proper for home buying is a really poor way to represent home costs. It's still ridiculous here, but there are properties outside of the city for at least 50 dollars cheaper.
5. Re:Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:22 · Score: 0
  
  Eons from now, we entities will self-actualize like never before as we are recreated by the quantum cycle. This mission never ends. We must learn how to lead enlightened lives in the face of pain.
6. Re:Median Salary by Registered+Coward+v2 · 2018-04-30 01:23 · Score: 1
  
  I'd be curious to see Amazon's median salary minus the warehouse workers. They compared two marketing/advertising giants with a retail enterprise, and we're supposed to feel bad that Amazon's tens of thousands of warehouse workers don't earn a quarter-million dollars/year like top-talent programmers and technology specialists?
  Puh-leeze.
  Exactly. Having a lot of lower wage employees is going to drag the median way simply do to the numbers. You're comparing two populations that are not the same and drawing a conclusion from it. Unfortunately, I'd wager many of the people reading the WSJ won't recognize the fallacy.
  
  --
  I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
7. Re:Median Salary by omnichad · 2018-04-30 01:33 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  That is a huge leap in logic. Inflation is primarily driven by prices on commodities that poor people spend most of their income on. More income at the bottom means more demand for those commodities, driving up prices.
8. Re: Median Salary by phantomfive · 2018-04-30 01:34 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  That is a rather ignorant way of looking at things. Inflation is caused by printing too much money. The federal reserve is largely in control of inflation, and can usually get as much or as little as they want. Inflation is not controlled by either the maximum or minimum wage. For more information on this topic, look up the monetary equation mv=pq. Raising the minimum wage doesn't affect inflation, but it increases unemployment as some businesses won't be able to afford the new higher wages, and will hire fewer people. The labor pool has its own supply demand curve. Again, if you don't understand why it is called a curve, please don't waste your time arguing. To really understand this topic well it would be helpful to get a good economics book.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
9. Re:Median Salary by Antique+Geekmeister · 2018-04-30 01:45 · Score: 1, Informative
  
  Having a large number of lower range salaries will lower the _average_. It need not have any effect whatsoever on the median salary, which is the salary where half of the personnel make more, and half make less income. If there are "classes" among the employees, the clusters of income for those classes can profoundly distort an analysis of the wages.
10. Re:Median Salary by Ryanrule · 2018-04-30 01:53 · Score: 1
  
  wow you need some school.
11. Re: Median Salary by Drethon · 2018-04-30 02:17 · Score: 2
  
  That is a rather ignorant way of looking at things. Inflation is caused by printing too much money. The federal reserve is largely in control of inflation, and can usually get as much or as little as they want. Inflation is not controlled by either the maximum or minimum wage. For more information on this topic, look up the monetary equation mv=pq. Raising the minimum wage doesn't affect inflation, but it increases unemployment as some businesses won't be able to afford the new higher wages, and will hire fewer people. The labor pool has its own supply demand curve. Again, if you don't understand why it is called a curve, please don't waste your time arguing. To really understand this topic well it would be helpful to get a good economics book.
  You are oversimplifying a bit: https://www.moneycrashers.com/...
  Inflation is also impacted by increased demand. If people have more money but the supply of the goods they want to buy does not increase, we have inflation due to more demand than supply (item 3 in the link). If products become more expensive to produce (having to pay workers more), we have inflation as companies pass on this cost (or hire less people as you mentioned), item 4 in the link.
12. Re:Median Salary by Registered+Coward+v2 · 2018-04-30 02:19 · Score: 1
  
  Having a large number of lower range salaries will lower the _average_. It need not have any effect whatsoever on the median salary, which is the salary where half of the personnel make more, and half make less income. If there are "classes" among the employees, the clusters of income for those classes can profoundly distort an analysis of the wages.
  As you point out, a large cluster of employees will distort the median. Amazon has a lot of low wage warehouse staff, who's numbers dwarf those of higher wage employees. Those, the salary distribution is not a bell curve but has a very fat tail at the lower end, thus driving down the median wage. If you compare Amazon's median wage to a company that doesn't have the same wage distribution, as the WSJ did, you are making an invalid comparison. If you want to compare Amazon to SV companies you need to use similar populations. I'd bet, if you adjust for cost of living, etc., Amazon is pretty close to the companies it competes with for talent.
  
  --
  I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
13. Re: Median Salary by complete+loony · 2018-04-30 02:21 · Score: 1
  
  A "good" economics book? Here's a better money equation for you; Income = Expense = existing money * velocity + bank lending [+ government deficit + trade surplus].
  
  --
  09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
14. Re: Median Salary by phantomfive · 2018-04-30 02:25 · Score: 0
  
  You are oversimplifying a bit:
  I didn't, I gave the full equation, mv=pq. If you don't understand it, you should go look it up right now.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
15. Re: Median Salary by phantomfive · 2018-04-30 02:27 · Score: 1
  
  Why is that one better?
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
16. Re:Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:30 · Score: 0
  
  Yes, you should compare the median salaries of Amazon employees to that of Walmart or McDonald's, which would be in the same ballpark.
17. Re:Median Salary by king+neckbeard · 2018-04-30 02:30 · Score: 2
  
  "market-based"
  "rugged individualism"
  Those are mutually exclusive. There's nothing ruggedly individualistic about swindling money from VCs, and corporations are incredibly dependent on some degree of collectivism.
  
  --
  This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
18. Re:Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:33 · Score: 1
  
  There's nothing valuable or sane about comparing Amazon's median salary to that of Facebook or Alphabet..
  To make such a comparison belies complete ignorance. The type of blatantly stupid statements we've come to expect in Slashdot headlines and summaries. Its quite sad there isn't an ounce of critical thought amongst /. editors.
19. Re: Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:45 · Score: 0
  
  WSJ did point out exactly that. Don't blame them for msmash stupidity or your laziness
20. Re:Median Salary by Talderas · 2018-04-30 02:49 · Score: 1
  
  Having a large number of low salaries workers can distort the median.
  For a hypothetical, let's say each company employees 9 workers.
  Alphabet's employees are paid ( 100,000 | 120,000 | 130,000 | 140,000 | 197,000 | 200,000 | 200,000 | 200,000 | 210,000 ).
  Facebook's employees are paid ( 100,000 | 150,000 | 170,000 | 210,000 | 240,000 | 260,000 | 265,000 | 270,000| 275,000 ).
  Amazone's employees are paid ( 23,000 | 24,000 | 26,000 | 27,000 | 28,446 | 30,000 | 100,000 | 110,000 | 120,000).
  Alphabet's mean is 166,333 and its median is 197,000. Facebook's mean is 215,555 and its median 240,000. Amazon's mean is 54,271 and it's median 28,446.
  Amazon has been pushing lots of automation which would potentially reduce the amount of low wage manual labor and consequently push the median salary upwards. Eliminating the two lowest paying jobs in the set I gave would increase their mean pay to 63,063 and the median to 30,000. They still have a huge manual labor workforce, the fact that the median pay is only 28,446 is indicative that the majority of Amazon employees are in the fulfillment centers, and that's just simply going to dwarf any assessment on the pay of their professional workforce.
  
  --
  "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
21. Re:Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:50 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  But, that's not at all true. WWII is what made America the most successful country in the history of the planet. Nearly all of the competitors were destroyed during the war as all their production capacity was targeted during fighting. The result was that we had a period of a couple decades where we had virtually no competition to ward off.
  But, that's also a period where the nation was far less capitalist than it is now. Employees were actually being paid for the work they were doing. They were able to save money to start their own ventures if they wanted to and there wasn't anywhere near as much predatory banking practice going on at the time.
  On top of that, since employees were actually being paid, there was money for people to go out and buy goods and services.
  Funny how people choose to just ignore those facts when astroturfing.
22. Re: Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:53 · Score: 0
  
  Perfectly stated. Lol.
23. Re: Median Salary by datavirtue · 2018-04-30 03:36 · Score: 1
  
  Economics books are rarely helpful.
  "Raising the minimum wage doesn't affect inflation,"
  It would if it triggered a larger issuance of debt...which is a likely outcome.
  
  --
  I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
24. Re:Median Salary by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2018-04-30 03:50 · Score: 1
  
  In this example of the housing market, the poor are entirely priced out of the market by the rich.
  Not everything that goes into inflation are commodities.
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
25. Re:Median Salary by omnichad · 2018-04-30 03:57 · Score: 1
  
  In this example of the housing market,
  What example? I don't see any housing market example.
26. Re:Median Salary by thegarbz · 2018-04-30 04:08 · Score: 2
  
  When either of the latter two start employing thousands of low wage workers you'll see their median salary plummet to Amazon levels.
  This. There's no sane way to take the entire group of people and compare them using a normal statistical mean, or median. That alone should be evident by the fact that Facebook has some 25000 people, Google has 70000 people. Amazon has 566000, checking the number of zeros.... yes I wrote it correctly.
  Comparing employees between these companies is asinine.
27. Re: Median Salary by mnemotronic · 2018-04-30 04:32 · Score: 1
  
  There are also no distribution centers in Seattle
  Does this count? (in Kent, just south of Seattle)
  
  --
  The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
28. Re:Median Salary by bjdevil66 · 2018-04-30 04:41 · Score: 1
  
  We have college students that intern at Amazon starting between $90K-$100K, right out of college. They work long hours (10-12/day), but none of them would say they're not compensated well for a starting job.
29. Re: Median Salary by kenh · 2018-04-30 05:37 · Score: 2
  
  What if two-thirds of your workforce are warehouse pickers? What does that do to your median salary?
  
  --
  Ken
30. Re:Median Salary by luis_a_espinal · 2018-04-30 06:18 · Score: 2
  
  I'd be curious to see Amazon's median salary minus the warehouse workers.
  
  From what I've heard, the salaries are comparable albeit a bit lower.
  But even then, base salaries are useless by comparison. A useful comparison requires the inclusion of benefit packages, PTO/vacation, hiring (or annual) bonuses (and in the case of STEM companies, college reimbursement.)
  Base salaries do not make apple to apple comparisons, and it is a near-fatal yet common mistake that techies make (specially when they consider going into consulting.)
31. Re: Median Salary by ranton · 2018-04-30 07:56 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  You are oversimplifying a bit:
  I didn't, I gave the full equation, mv=pq. If you don't understand it, you should go look it up right now.
  His point is that mv=pq is a very simplified equation which makes numerous false assumptions. It is good for a ECON 101 class to explain the basics, but it doesn't cover the entirety of what affects the CPI. Some basic problems with the equation include:
  M = Money Supply -> This is a very complex topic as there are many forms of money supply with very different characteristics, such as liquidity. This is one way wages enter into inflation figures, because more liquid forms of money supply in the hands of people who spend most of their money on goods and services (such as minimum wage workers) have a higher effect on inflation.
  V = Velocity -> In this equation V is not well defined. I'm not going to write a paper about it on Slashdot, but you can read this for a little more info.
  P = Price of Goods and Services -> This equation also doesn't take into account how inflation can hit different types of goods and services very differently. The type of Money Supply has a strong effect on this.
  I was going to type more but have a meeting to get to. I'm not saying that MV=PQ is a meaningless equation, it just doesn't encompass all economic theory on inflationary pressures. Think of it as F=MA before Einstein and quantum mechanics.
  
  --
  -- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
32. Re:Median Salary by barc0001 · 2018-04-30 08:17 · Score: 2
  
  > and we're supposed to feel bad that Amazon's tens of thousands of warehouse workers don't earn a quarter-million dollars/year like top-talent programmers and technology specialists?
  No, but maybe you should feel bad that whatever their salary is it dragged the median down to $28,000 so they're making much less than that, all the while not being able to take a break long enough to use the can so they're pissing in bottles and working in cold in winter, boiling hot in the summer. All so you can save an extra 10 cents on that bauble you ordered through prime same day shipping for free.
  North America needs to have a serious conversation about what a living wage means.
33. Re:Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 09:56 · Score: 0
  
  As will contracting out low-pay classes, like janitors.
34. Re: Median Salary by phantomfive · 2018-04-30 12:22 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not going to write a paper about it on Slashdot,
  That's good, because it's obvious you've been getting your economics knowledge from blogs written by failed portfolio managers, and probably some podcasts in there too. Your idea of money supply is bizarre (where exactly do you think wages come from? They don't change the money supply. And your comment on "more liquid forms of money supply" should be entered under velocity. Furthermore the P definitely does take into account how inflation can hit different types of goods and services very differently. I can't even fathom what misunderstanding you might have that causes you to think that it doesn't). Seriously, take a class or something because your ignorance is embarrassing. Stop getting your knowledge from websites that are trying to sell you things.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
35. Re: Median Salary by phantomfive · 2018-04-30 12:26 · Score: 1
  
  It would if it triggered a larger issuance of debt
  How exactly are you thinking that would that happen?
  
  Economics books are rarely helpful.
  Uh, stop posting while drunk.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
36. Re: Median Salary by complete+loony · 2018-04-30 13:24 · Score: 1
  
  Because new money also contributes to economic activity and inflation. Yet economics textbooks completely ignore the capacity of banks to create that additional spending power out of nowhere. Or suggest that government surpluses will magically make the economy grow, when the opposite is true. Trade imbalance also explains why Germany is doing so well, while Greece is doing so poorly.
  Every boom is accompanied by unsustainable growth in bank lending, every collapse linked to a reduction in money creation. The best thing our failing western economies can do is boost government spending, while simultaneously winding back bank lending. We will keep having a series of financial crises, until we drastically change the way we create money.
  For more detail I suggest you read the work of Steve Keen.
  
  --
  09F91102 no, 455FE104 nope, F190A1E8 uh-uh, 7A5F8A09 that's not it, C87294CE no. Ah! 452F6E403CDF10714E41DFAA257D313F.
37. Re: Median Salary by phantomfive · 2018-04-30 13:38 · Score: 1
  
  Yet economics textbooks completely ignore the capacity of banks to create that additional spending power out of nowhere
  If you take a macroeconomics 101 class you'll spend a couple weeks on this exact topic. In mv=pq, which really is the most helpful model for understanding inflation, it's covered under m.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
38. Re:Median Salary by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · 2018-04-30 15:50 · Score: 1
  
  No, but maybe you should feel bad that whatever their salary is it dragged the median down to $28,000 so they're making much less than that
  Median literally means middle. It's not an average. It just means as many workers make less than 28k as make more than that. The lower half can all have salaries of 27.9k and the upper half can have salaries in the billions, and the median stays the same.
  
  --
  Your ad here. Ask me how!
39. Re: Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 16:00 · Score: 0
  
  If only $100k was still worth jack shit in Seattle...
40. Re: Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 16:09 · Score: 0
  
  Thank you, Captain Dickbreath, for demonstrating your petulant ignorance.
41. Re:Median Salary by barc0001 · 2018-04-30 18:04 · Score: 1
  
  > The lower half can all have salaries of 27.9k and the upper half can have salaries in the billions, and the median stays the same
  Mathematically that is correct but do you seriously believe that's the case? Especially in light of the multiple articles published on the minimum wage pressure cookers that are Amazon Fulfillment Sites?
42. Re:Median Salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 18:04 · Score: 0
  
  the more evil and more sinister the company.... the more its employees want to be payed in order to sell their dignity and souls to the devil and one of his companies
43. Re:Median Salary by dcw3 · 2018-05-01 04:53 · Score: 1
  
  Who had the production capacity that the US had prior to the war???
  
  --
  Just another day in Paradise
44. Re: Median Salary by dcw3 · 2018-05-01 05:09 · Score: 1
  
  You're funny. Economic predictions are about as good as those of a typical meteorologist...fifty years ago.
  
  --
  Just another day in Paradise
45. Re:Median Salary by outlander · 2018-05-01 05:30 · Score: 1
  
  The British, the Germans, the Japanese, and the Russians had extraordinary production capacity before WWII. All those countries also suffered tremendous damage to their industrial infrastructure, which cleared the playing field for the US to dominate manufacturing and trade while the heavily-damaged countries caught up.
  This is just another reason why war is basically a bad idea. Honestly, if industrialists wanted to get their way, they should work stuff out around a negotiating table, not suborn governments/armies to do it for them. It destroys capacity, creates antipathies that last for decades if not centuries, and slows the growth curve. Yes, WWII did lead to some amazing science which got humans to the moon and led to computers, but imagine if the work that Turing, Atanasoff, von Neumann, von Braun, etc were doing had not been constrained by the need for weaponizing the results?
  
  --
  "Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
46. Re:Median Salary by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2018-05-01 08:45 · Score: 1
  
  From the RTFAS:
  " The median price for a home in Silicon Valley is upwards of $1 million, in Seattle the median home price is just under $800,000."
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
47. Re:Median Salary by omnichad · 2018-05-01 09:04 · Score: 1
  
  That's not inflation.
48. Re:Median Salary by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2018-05-01 09:39 · Score: 1
  
  Yes it is, actually. The same house, 100 years ago, would have sold for a few hundred dollars.
  Just because it is localized and excluded from the government's propaganda does not mean it isn't a hyperinflationary market.
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
49. Re:Median Salary by omnichad · 2018-05-01 09:51 · Score: 1
  
  A localized hyperinflationary market is not the same thing as general inflation. You intentionally conflated the two in your original post, even though the general market can balance out as poorer people can find the inefficiencies and live cheaper elsewhere. And this country is HUGE in terms of land mass.
50. Re: Median Salary by phantomfive · 2018-05-01 11:20 · Score: 1
  
  You're dumb. You get your knowledge of economics from politicians and people who are trying to manipulate you. Take a class and become smart.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
51. Re: Median Salary by dcw3 · 2018-05-01 13:20 · Score: 1
  
  You don't know squat about me or where I get my economic education, and yet claim that you do. Clearly, you're the moron.
  
  --
  Just another day in Paradise
52. Re:Median Salary by dcw3 · 2018-05-01 13:25 · Score: 1
  
  Really? They had the massive assembly lines like that of the American automotive industry? I'm not here to argue your other point about war being bad, just that I'm doubting that anyone had anywhere close to the production capacity that America had pre-war.
  
  --
  Just another day in Paradise
53. Re: Median Salary by phantomfive · 2018-05-01 13:28 · Score: 1
  
  I know about your education because you've revealed it. You never took an economics class, or if you did, you didn't learn from it. Economics makes plenty of predictions accurately, but you don't realize it because of your information sources.
  
  --
  "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
54. Re:Median Salary by Peter+P+Peters · 2018-05-01 23:32 · Score: 1
  
  Who had the production capacity that the US had prior to the war???
  Before or after they had slaves?
55. Re:Median Salary by dcw3 · 2018-05-02 00:03 · Score: 1
  
  Who had the production capacity that the US had prior to the war???
  Before or after they had slaves?
  Nice. You are aware that slavery was not unique to the US, right?
  
  --
  Just another day in Paradise
56. Re:Median Salary by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2018-05-02 01:59 · Score: 1
  
  The original median salary was the same hyperinflationary market. I'm saying the higher median salaries are driving the higher priced homes.
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
57. Re:Median Salary by omnichad · 2018-05-02 02:08 · Score: 1
  
  Of course it is. But you said that maximum wage drives inflation (general rule). Just use better words.
58. Re:Median Salary by Marxist+Hacker+42 · 2018-05-02 04:43 · Score: 1
  
  The general rule is shown by the example of the specific case.
  The exact same thing would happen in any market. Where wages are hyperinflationary, the increased money supply means that the supply/demand curve changes and prices go up.
  It's just a subset of the law of supply and demand. I don't see why you're getting so worked up about it.
  
  --
  SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
59. Re:Median Salary by omnichad · 2018-05-02 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  The general rule is shown by the example of the specific case.
  The general rule contradicts the specific case. Your initial statement is still wrong. Unless and until this entire country is overcrowded, it's utterly and completely wrong.
60. Re:Median Salary by Peter+P+Peters · 2018-05-03 16:12 · Score: 1
  
  Nice. You are aware that slavery was not unique to the US, right?
  Yes, why do you ask?
  Is it to avoid answering my question? Or is to justify the the fact that the US was built mostly on slave labour and that even today in 2018 there are still no serious measures for reparations? Or in your mind we should forget all about it because someone else somewhere did it too?
  Because that is what you are implying with your response, and it sounds pretty fucking crazy.
61. Re:Median Salary by dcw3 · 2018-05-03 16:47 · Score: 1
  
  The discussion was about WWII, and was pretty obvious if you bothered to read it, so your "question" was moot.
  To argue that the US was built "mostly on slave labour" is a total lie, and shows your lack of knowledge of the industrial revolution.
  Nobody alive in the US was a slave, nor was anyone a slave owner. As for reparations, there's plenty of "affirmative action". My own company has for many years promoted and given larger pay increases to "persons of color".
  
  --
  Just another day in Paradise
62. Re:Median Salary by Peter+P+Peters · 2018-05-04 17:41 · Score: 1
  
  The discussion was about WWII,
  
  No it wasn't.
  
  and was pretty obvious if you bothered to read it, so your "question" was moot.
  I went back and re-read it, the discussion is about America's position in the world and how that came to be. But keep avoiding the question if that makes you feel better.
  
  To argue that the US was built "mostly on slave labour" is a total lie, and shows your lack of knowledge of the industrial revolution.
  Slavery was part of the economy, you can't just pretend it didn't exist.
  
  Nobody alive in the US was a slave, nor was anyone a slave owner.
  
  Oh right so there's no problem then...
  
  As for reparations, there's plenty of "affirmative action". My own company has for many years promoted and given larger pay increases to "persons of color".
  And how is that working out? All problems fixed? People of colour no longer over-represented in health, employment or crime statistics?
  If there's still problems, it means your solution isn't good enough.
63. Re:Median Salary by dcw3 · 2018-05-04 18:44 · Score: 1
  
  The discussion was about WWII,
  No it wasn't.
  Yes it was, right above my first statement to which I replied very clearly..."WWII is what made America the most successful country in the history of the planet"
  
  Slavery was part of the economy, you can't just pretend it didn't exist.
  I never said such a thing...another reading comprehension failure.
  
  Nobody alive in the US was a slave, nor was anyone a slave owner.
  Oh right so there's no problem then...
  I didn't say there was no problem, please try to stop putting words in my mouth.
  
  As for reparations, there's plenty of "affirmative action". My own company has for many years promoted and given larger pay increases to "persons of color".
  And how is that working out? All problems fixed? People of colour no longer over-represented in health, employment or crime statistics?
  If there's still problems, it means your solution isn't good enough.
  My solution? It wasn't my problem. I grew up poor in downtown Detroit, to a single 19 yr old mother, but I'm sure that because I became successful, you somehow see that as white privilege. It amazes me that poor people from around the globe have immigrated and become much successful...what are they doing different than the black population...were those people privileged as well? Health, employment and crime statistics are bad for everyone in most urban areas, but that's where the majority of the black population resides, and yes, it sucks to be born into a crappy situation. Some of us learn to play with the cards we're dealt and other complain that the deck is stacked.
  
  --
  Just another day in Paradise
64. Re:Median Salary by Peter+P+Peters · 2018-05-05 14:52 · Score: 1
  
  My solution? It wasn't my problem.
  Reading you loud and clear....
Might be time to leave... by Austerity+Empowers · 2018-04-30 00:09 · Score: 5, Insightful

...the sillycon valley. It's always going to be the center of tech, but there's a large hunk of america that costs a tiny fraction where anyone can live like a king on $100k/yr.
It's a nice place, I spent the past week there, but I am glad to have left too. Paying 33% more in gas, 50% more in food, 30% more in groceries and the crowding and density didn't really endear it to me. To get an equivalent size house there to what I own would have cost almost 20x the price, and I know damn well I'm not going to get 20x the salary.
I'm just not convinced that in the digital era that the silicon valley created that we all need to pile in there anymore. Video conferencing works well, email works well, networks work well. Let's spread out some.
1. Re:Might be time to leave... by AmiMoJo · 2018-04-30 00:27 · Score: 5, Interesting
  
  People have realized that if they go and earn big bucks for a few years and then bail to somewhere cheaper, that mega salary will help them get above the going rate anywhere. Recruiters don't look at a $200k salary and think "oh but that was Silicon Valley, this person will take $50k out here and maintain the same lifestyle", they think "well I had better offer at least 100k to get someone like that!"
  
  --
  const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
  SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
2. Re:Might be time to leave... by DigiShaman · 2018-04-30 00:33 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  San Francisco is basically one big-ass-giant "college campus" for the young to start their careers. It's not a place to raise a family in your 40s. That city entire MO is to constantly churn the young along. You go in, get experience, and then GTFO! It's pure insanity to think SF is to be a city for life living experience; you'll end up in the poorhouse after being kicked to the curb for your old age.
  
  --
  Life is not for the lazy.
3. Re: Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 00:35 · Score: 4, Insightful
  
  Not really. Years ago I worked in the Midwest and weâ(TM)d laugh at the people coming from California demanding similar inflated salaries.
4. Re:Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 00:42 · Score: 0
  
  It's usually better to earn more in a high-cost area than to earn less but have a lower cost of living. Not all of your costs scale with the price structure of your area, and for some of the costs that do scale, you get better value too. You shouldn't live where things that you value particularly highly are in short supply though, like a large plot of land in a crowded metropolitan area.
5. Re:Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:10 · Score: 1
  
  It's usually better to earn more in a high-cost area than to earn less but have a lower cost of living. Not all of your costs scale with the price structure of your area, and for some of the costs that do scale, you get better value too. You shouldn't live where things that you value particularly highly are in short supply though, like a large plot of land in a crowded metropolitan area.
  Indeed. Who cares if you have to pay $1mill for your house instead of $150k for your house like in a normal part of the country. If you ever move elsewhere, all of a sudden the money you sank into your home will make you rich. $300 for a new cell phone every three years is not a minor expense for me living in a lower cost of living area, I grumble about paying that much at one time.
  $300 if you're making over $200k in a higher cost of living area is nothing. Same with computers, cars, most other goods the prices stay the same even though you're in a higher cost area. I pay the same to get something from Amazon as you do if you're in Silicon Valley on the mega wages.
6. Re:Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:25 · Score: 0
  
  Only an entity of the world may integrate this lightning bolt of gratitude. Selfishness is the antithesis of truth. You must take a stand against materialism.
7. Re: Might be time to leave... by Austerity+Empowers · 2018-04-30 01:46 · Score: 1
  
  Oddly we make the same or close to the same inflated salary outside of Ca, and actually do live like kings. Maybe it depends on industry.
8. Re:Might be time to leave... by bobbied · 2018-04-30 01:51 · Score: 1
  
  ...the sillycon valley. It's always going to be the center of tech...
  In my experience, any statement that contains "always" that's not based in scientific and repeatable observations, especially those that are speaking of some future state of things, usually turn out to be incorrect. I'm not saying this one is, only that it's very likely wrong.
  Detroit used to be the center of automobile manufacturing, but today "motor city" is awash in urban blight and poverty while the manufacture of automobiles has moved away.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
9. Re:Might be time to leave... by Austerity+Empowers · 2018-04-30 02:01 · Score: 2
  
  You can have both though. The wage battle is the same, and we know companies can afford to pay $200k/yr, so they can and do continue to do so regardless of location. The difference is the company that can afford to pay me that and live in an area with a fraction of the cost is going to be better than the one who pays just a bit more in silicon valley, unless you are very young and really sold on urban lifestyle at any cost (I was never that young...)
  All I know is living here I can have a fast car, a big house, have college funds for my kids, my wife can work or not at her discretion, we still have a well stocked retirement fund and I can also enjoy my job and not have to get promoted into low oxygen jobs. The si valley dream is still alive and well, these companies are making a fortune, but employees aren't benefitting because of high costs. It's bad for everyone: employers are having to fight a wage war that is starting to hurt, employees aren't really able to benefit from the money, while more and more wealth is concentrating in a small area unevenly, driving inflation up locally.
  If you spread that across our entire country, things might be very different politically and economically. If everyone is bought in, people tend to think more alike.
10. Re:Might be time to leave... by Space+cowboy · 2018-04-30 02:07 · Score: 1
  
  Um, no ?
  I'm 48, have been working for Apple for the last 14 years or so, and live and work in the Bay Area. Sure, things are expensive, and once I stop being paid we'll bail to the Oregon coast or similar for retirement, but life is pretty good.
  My wife is a full-time mum, my kid goes to a nice school (better than I ever had), the mortgage will be paid in 5 years or so, and we've just got a puppy (a Newfie :) I'm intending to stay until retirement. I'm hardly the oldest in my group (R&D) either, and I work alongside people who've been here for longer than I have (some of them go back 25 years) and who are older than I am. Age is not a barrier, at least at Apple, if you're good enough.
  
  --
  Physicists get Hadrons!
11. Re: Might be time to leave... by 0100010001010011 · 2018-04-30 02:38 · Score: 1
  
  I never left the midwest and worked up to $140k. Having never had to deal with any housing crises or the congestion that comes with a metro area.
12. Re: Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:53 · Score: 0
  
  After I left the midwest I laughed at everyone who stayed. The career mobility there is shit. I've seen people go from helpdesk to middle management in 2 years here. My midwest job called me last year to see how I was doing and they all worked the same jobs at the same pay 6 years later, except they hired a bunch of people after I left.
  You should laugh at yourself because while the doors aren't closing and the pay seems good enough to get your CEO to get out of bed you still accept your careers maxing out at the same kind of pay you could have made spending six months in dental hygiene school.
  Finally after accepting promotions on the coast and putting brands on their resumes, maybe they move back to the midwest and demand salaries they're not getting, they can still buy their house cash with money left over from selling their condo.
13. Re: Might be time to leave... by Junta · 2018-04-30 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  I think the assertion that some places would only offer $50k underestimates the state of affairs in the rest of the market. Sure, having a *median* of over $200k is unlikely outside of California, but 100k isn't too outrageous, regardless of whether the person came from one of the "big names" or not.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
14. Re:Might be time to leave... by i286NiNJA · 2018-04-30 03:02 · Score: 1
  
  Heh everything on amazon costs about the same in seattle as ohio.
  Difference is a dollar feels like spending a penny and it's on my doorstep 2 hours later.... and unless the market is taking a dive my 401k earns more than median pay in the city I left.
15. Re: Might be time to leave... by datavirtue · 2018-04-30 03:43 · Score: 0
  
  Are you under the impression that $100k a year is a lot of money?
  
  --
  I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
16. Re: Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 04:02 · Score: 0
  
  Uh considering that 90% of the population of the US makes less than that, yes it is a lot of money.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States
17. Re: Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 04:07 · Score: 0
  
  Thatâ(TM)s fine. I laughed at the last midwestern company that tried to lure me away from California.
18. Re: Might be time to leave... by Junta · 2018-04-30 04:48 · Score: 1
  
  The context matters, a post said "starting in SV will net you $100k when you leave SV versus $50k/y if you don't start from SV", then someone said "No, you won't get $100k/yr just by being from SV" and I was replying that you could probably get $100k/yr, regardless of SV or not.
  But in answer to your question, yes, $100k/year is a lot of money. US median *household* income is $60k (including a lot of multi-income households). One salary being nearly double the median is a lot of money, relatively speaking. I certainly feel like I have a lot more money than others, and I don't really want for anything.
  
  --
  XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
19. Re:Might be time to leave... by crgrace · 2018-04-30 05:16 · Score: 1
  
  I live in San Francisco and am raising a family (three kids) in the City. It's a nice place to raise kids. Lots of educational opportunities, entertainment, playgrounds and the like easily accessible.
  The cost of living is high, yes. But if you're in tech (like me) the salaries more than make up for it. Do you know what metro area has the largest disposable income on average? The Bay Area. So, even taking into account the higher cost of living, you STILL end up with more money in your pocket than most other places. Why else would you see so many Telsas, Porches, and Masteratis around if everyone was living hand-to-mouth to pay their rent?
20. Re: Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 06:19 · Score: 0
  
  I also worked in the Midwest for a while and now I laugh that the top 10% of engineer of my old company now work in Silicon Valley for 2x-3x as much.
21. Re: Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 06:21 · Score: 0
  
  Do t worry about the houses. Just rent and you will have more money then the midwest
22. Re:Might be time to leave... by luis_a_espinal · 2018-04-30 06:28 · Score: 1
  
  ...the sillycon valley. It's always going to be the center of tech, but there's a large hunk of america that costs a tiny fraction where anyone can live like a king on $100k/yr.
  Subject to living with a very shallow employer pool. I know people who have taken gigs in the middle of nowhere, relocating family and all, and then they are stuck with 2-3 employers. That's the reason many of us prefer the expense of living in a, no pun intended, expensive metropolitan area. Should shit hit the fan I know I have about 2-3 dozen possible options (some great, some good, most mediocre, but having that many options is much better than just plan A and plan B and shit there is nothing else.)
  
  . Video conferencing works well, email works well, networks work well.
  
  When you have enough employers doing that. This is still not the case and creativity requires agglomeration. Read Enrico Moretti's "The New Geography of Work".
  
  Let's spread out some.
  Sure, go ahead, let me know how it works for ya. I know it works wonders from some. But more often than note I've seen people regretting moving to Buttholeville in Flyoverburg county because of the shallow pool of employers to tap when shit hit the fan.
  Then there are other intangibles that come into play when living in larger, more expensive metropolitan areas: greater accessibility to community colleges and 4 year degrees for your kids to go. If you live far enough away, your kids will have to live in a dorm to study (because your educational options will be limited). And *you* will have to pay for that.
  Don't get me wrong. I would love to live in a much larger house with a few acres of land while working remote. I could do that right now. It's just that the ROI is not there when you look at it in the long term (which touches another myth about big cities not being good for families, as if the only way to live a wholesome life is to live in a little house in the prairie.)
23. Re:Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 07:47 · Score: 0
  
  Maybe it should be if those new keyboards are anything to judge R&D's performance by....
24. Re:Might be time to leave... by barc0001 · 2018-04-30 08:22 · Score: 1
  
  > they think "well I had better offer at least 100k to get someone like that!"
  No, they think "get a load of this guy, who the hell does he think we are? Google?" The reason a lot of tech people don't move elsewhere to live cheaper is that the salaries are also smaller. Live in Silicon Valley and put away even 5% of your salary for retirement will set you up for success more than a job in the midwest and setting aside 15% of that salary. Plus the relative ease of job mobility, if that's your thing.
25. Re:Might be time to leave... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 08:49 · Score: 0
  
  In the long run, we're all dead.
26. Re:Might be time to leave... by Gojira+Shipi-Taro · 2018-04-30 14:57 · Score: 1
  
  But are any of the places you're talking about the kinds of places that people like the talent in question want to LIVE?
  For instance, I wouldn't live in Lawrance Kansas if you gave me a 2300 sqft house for FREE as well as any vehicle I wanted.
  There's nothing interesting to DO there. There's no prospects for a relationship I'd be interested in (most girls there are really proud of their church attendance, according to my sister) It's not near anything remotely interesting.
  Cost of living varies for REASONS.
  
  --
  "Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
27. Re: Might be time to leave... by outlander · 2018-05-01 05:55 · Score: 1
  
  "A lot of money" is relative to costs in a given area.
  Costs in (certain parts of) CA are higher than average, and consequently the salary doesn't go as far.
  OTOH, if you're careful and not wasteful, it's possible to build up a decent nest egg by leveraging 401k and opening brokerage accounts. Even if you stay with safe instruments, you'll still manage to put away some good cash, which is the chief benefit. I don't even count options - I've had many, and they are generally worthless, which is why SV companies have to offer both salary and equity in order to acquire talent.
  
  --
  "Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
28. Re:Might be time to leave... by outlander · 2018-05-01 05:56 · Score: 1
  
  > Live in Silicon Valley and put away even 5% of your salary for retirement will set you up for success more than a job in the midwest and setting aside 15% of that salary.
  ^^^
  What he said. Figure out how much you can afford to save and then save like crazy. It makes for an exit strategy by or before 60 that's entirely acceptable.
  
  --
  "Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
So, accounting or IT? by abies · 2018-04-30 00:11 · Score: 1

We have just recently learned that accounting pays so much better than IT: https://ask.slashdot.org/story...
So, how big are accountant salaries in Silicon Valley?
1. Re:So, accounting or IT? by AuMatar · 2018-04-30 00:17 · Score: 2
  
  First off- whoever posted that put no evidence in at all. Secondly- the vast majority of people at those companies are not IT. They're programmers. Totally different payscale. The actual IT people are probably paid well, but not anything like the numbers above.
  
  --
  I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
2. Re:So, accounting or IT? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 00:43 · Score: 0
  
  Depends on your definition of "IT". For a lot of companies, if your customer is internal you are IT whether you are changing printer toner or writing applications or keeping servers up.
  In my experience, companies that have other product engineering are the only ones who limit the definition of IT to admins and helpdesk people.
3. Re:So, accounting or IT? by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:13 · Score: 2, Informative
  
  Depends on your definition of "IT". For a lot of companies, if your customer is internal you are IT whether you are changing printer toner or writing applications or keeping servers up.
  In my experience, companies that have other product engineering are the only ones who limit the definition of IT to admins and helpdesk people.
  Indeed, I am both IT and programmer. I'm an experienced programmer, but because I work internally facing, and we are support to the main operations of the company (not the product itself)- I am considered IT to the rest of the staff.
  No, I don't monitor network traffic, or remove people's malware, or tell them not to pour coffee on their keyboards when their keyboards stop working. I write software- but I'm still considered IT here.
Great Opportunities by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 00:14 · Score: 0

For stale, male, and pale IT neckbeards.
1. Re: Great Opportunities by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 16:29 · Score: 0
  
  #ProgressiveBigot
Outsource it all by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 00:15 · Score: 0

Outsource it all to Africa as even India’s too expensive now.
1. Re:Outsource it all by Drethon · 2018-04-30 00:33 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Outsource it all to Africa as even India’s too expensive now.
  Outsource it to pretty much any state east of California, it is still going to be cheaper than hiring someone local.
2. Re:Outsource it all by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:17 · Score: 0
  
  Outsource it all to Africa as even India’s too expensive now.
  Outsource it to pretty much any state east of California, it is still going to be cheaper than hiring someone local.
  I'll work for Facebook as a privacy stealing software expert for $200k instead of $240k! Hire me! Just let me continue working from home in my cheapo house- in rural America, and I'll fly in a couple times a month for meetings.
  Facebook saves money. I make more money. Win win for everyone... except for the overpriced engineers in California who I displace.
3. Re:Outsource it all by cascadingstylesheet · 2018-04-30 01:39 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  Outsource it all to Africa as even India’s too expensive now.
  Outsource it to pretty much any state east of California, it is still going to be cheaper than hiring someone local.
  But, but, those people east of California might occasionally think unapproved thoughts!
4. Re:Outsource it all by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:02 · Score: 0
  
  Outsource it all to Africa as even India’s too expensive now.
  They're already outsourcing the actual work, these people are demanding those salaries because they're leaders and visionaries.
5. Re:Outsource it all by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:44 · Score: 0
  
  Why do that though? If you hire remote, why pay soneone in rural America a fair wage (or even an inflated wage) when you can pay someone in India less than minimum wage?
6. Re:Outsource it all by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 03:07 · Score: 0
  
  Outsource it all to Africa as even India’s too expensive now.
  Outsource it to pretty much any state east of California, it is still going to be cheaper than hiring someone local.
  But, but, those people east of California might occasionally think unapproved thoughts!
  But somehow the thoughts of those in India and Africa are approved?
7. Re:Outsource it all by mcrbids · 2018-04-30 03:36 · Score: 1
  
  You probably can't. The issue is finding talent that can do the job that is required. It's not that there aren't competent engineers in other states, it's just that engineers that are competent at the specific needs of something like Facebook are very, very hard to find.
  
  --
  I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
8. Re:Outsource it all by Drethon · 2018-04-30 03:54 · Score: 1
  
  You probably can't. The issue is finding talent that can do the job that is required. It's not that there aren't competent engineers in other states, it's just that engineers that are competent at the specific needs of something like Facebook are very, very hard to find.
  Honestly curious, what are the specific needs of Facebook beyond being able to develop web apps? I know a lot of data gathering and correlation is also involved, but I've learned about the same level of those skills in college as what college taught me for my current jobs. I only got to the level where I am by learning on the job, not sure how Facebook would be much different from that since I don't think there is any college that specifically teaches courses targeted at Facebook, in California or otherwise.
9. Re:Outsource it all by Drethon · 2018-04-30 04:34 · Score: 1
  
  Why do that though? If you hire remote, why pay soneone in rural America a fair wage (or even an inflated wage) when you can pay someone in India less than minimum wage?
  I had a few good years reworking the crap that came back from a company in India. The US company that out sourced would have spent less by keeping it in country in the first place.
10. Re:Outsource it all by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 05:01 · Score: 0
  
  But then you wouldn't have had a job. :(
11. Re:Outsource it all by Drethon · 2018-04-30 05:11 · Score: 1
  
  But then you wouldn't have had a job. :(
  Probably not, yay outsourcing for producing US jobs? I is confuse :)
12. Re:Outsource it all by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 08:22 · Score: 0
  
  So being wrong is redefined as "thinking unapproved thoughts"?
13. Re:Outsource it all by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 08:25 · Score: 0
  
  You probably can't. The issue is finding talent that can do the job that is required. It's not that there aren't competent engineers in other states, it's just that engineers that are competent at the specific needs of something like Facebook are very, very hard to find.
  Honestly curious, what are the specific needs of Facebook beyond being able to develop web apps? I know a lot of data gathering and correlation is also involved, but I've learned about the same level of those skills in college as what college taught me for my current jobs. I only got to the level where I am by learning on the job, not sure how Facebook would be much different from that since I don't think there is any college that specifically teaches courses targeted at Facebook, in California or otherwise.
  He's referring to the art of bullshitting yourself into a menial position with 2nd rate skill set while convincing the interviewer you have an exceptional combination of technical elite and forward thinking visionary.
welfare state inflationary spuidity by DarkOx · 2018-04-30 00:29 · Score: 0

Look there is one reason and one reason alone that housing there can sustain million dollar prices, its because people are subsidizing the servant class.
Think about this would anyone of these talent people, who can get jobs elsewhere choose the valley if they could not get their cup of coffee made for them, their lawns mowed, the bagels sliced and smeared? Where there were few restaurants and limited shopping? Answer No! Nobody would want to live in a city with no basic commercial services.
Of course nobody who performs those services can pay the rent on a property will million dollar land values for .1 acre either... So we give them subsidized housing, transportation, and food stamps... Which have to be paid for with insanely high taxes on ever higher professional salaries. Meanwhile the poorer worker never amasses actual capital to buy a home or personal transportation etc. They are tightly controlled as to where they can live (in the housing project) and what they can buy with an increasing proportion of their spending (SNAP etc)..
These things are given to them because it keeps them in the city to serve the wealthy professional class. Which they all vote for because it props up the real-estate assets they hold. If we did not do the welfare madness one of two things would happen. The servant class would be forced to flea the city for green pastures, property values would collapse because obtaining a cup of coffee or getting your lawn mowed; the property otherwise maintained, you kids tutored would be impossible; or wages would rise, until those workers could afford to live. The "Great Society" is the cause of not the solution to the growing wealth gap; Silly Valley is the future of this entire nation if these policies are continued, its a perfect example of how to establish a permeate under class and destroy the American Dream forever.
What is a amazing is its held up instead as the exemplar of entrepreneurial capitalism; there are plenty of useful idiots supporting all this nonsense who have bought the lie; the reality is however its a minority of already highly successful people and their offspring protecting their position of privilege. Establishing a new 21st Century American Nobility.

--
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
1. Re:welfare state inflationary spuidity by kenh · 2018-04-30 00:38 · Score: 2
  
  No, the blue-collar workers live in their cars, tents, and RVs, live several workers to a small apartment, or they live 2 hours away and drive in in carpools. Most are paid to well to collect many means-tested programs (section 8 housing, welfare, SNAP, Aid for Women with dependent children, etc.).
  
  --
  Ken
2. Re:welfare state inflationary spuidity by Nidi62 · 2018-04-30 00:43 · Score: 2, Insightful
  
  If we did not do the welfare madness one of two things would happen. The servant class would be forced to flea the city for green pastures, property values would collapse because obtaining a cup of coffee or getting your lawn mowed; the property otherwise maintained, you kids tutored would be impossible; or wages would rise, until those workers could afford to live.
  Where exactly are the "servant class" going to flee to, and how are they going to finance said move and secure housing and employment in said destination? They aren't going anywhere. The people that stayed aren't there because they love working menial jobs and subsisting on welfare living in government housing. The ones that can leave have already left. Cut off the welfare for those left behind and you'll just have more homeless, more hungry people. And that leads to more crime. What those making six-figure salaries would save in taxes, they will more than make up for in higher insurance costs, or paying for security as those "servants" start breaking into their $100k cars and $1 million homes.
  
  --
  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
3. Re: welfare state inflationary spuidity by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:30 · Score: 0
  
  You are bat shit crazy. Do you read your own manifesto regularly?
4. Re:welfare state inflationary spuidity by omnichad · 2018-04-30 01:38 · Score: 1
  
  There are a lot of homeless there. They would at least be as well off bring homeless elsewhere - at least their prospects would improve.
5. Re:welfare state inflationary spuidity by im_thatoneguy · 2018-04-30 07:33 · Score: 1
  
  You mentioned "lawn mowers" twice. Which is to say clearly you don't actually live in a city which you speak as if you "know so much about".
6. Re: welfare state inflationary spuidity by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 16:46 · Score: 0
  
  Bro, bro, bro - last off the meth for a couple weeks. You'll feel better.
7. Re:welfare state inflationary spuidity by Anonymous Coward · 2018-05-01 05:41 · Score: 0
  
  If people in SF want to vote for their taxes to go to subsidize the less well off, surely that is their perogative? California as a whole is a net contributor to the Federal budget.
8. Re:welfare state inflationary spuidity by Anonymous Coward · 2018-05-01 05:45 · Score: 0
  
  SF has a mild climate. I doubt being homeless in North Dakota or Alabama is very enticing.
To say âoetalentâ is using the wrong wor by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 00:31 · Score: 0

Most of the alleged talent is nothing but inexperienced mediocre employees who jump ship at the first opportunity they find. An employee that works a year here and a here there is usually a poor performer employee.
Left unsaid in the summary by DeplorableCodeMonkey · 2018-04-30 00:36 · Score: 2

Is that that average salary includes data scientists, AI researchers, etc. which command higher salaries than typical software engineers. I would be very surprised to find that the median salary of a SWE at Facebook is $240k unless they bring a very impressive resume with them. The SWEs who just build out new user-facing features with Hack and React are likely not anywhere near that.
1. Re:Left unsaid in the summary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:00 · Score: 1
  
  The article gives the median salaries, not the average, and a small number of people on very high salaries would have no impact on the median value.
2. Re:Left unsaid in the summary by Ryanrule · 2018-04-30 01:18 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah ide like to see more numbers. Im sure there are some WAAAY HIGH outliers pushing that number up.
3. Re:Left unsaid in the summary by MMC+Monster · 2018-04-30 02:26 · Score: 1
  
  Not if they're talking median salaries, as is mentioned in the summary.
  
  --
  Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
4. Re:Left unsaid in the summary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 03:11 · Score: 0
  
  It doesn't even consistently stick to salaries. For Google, it uses the ambiguous term "pay package", while for Facebook it uses the term "salary".
5. Re: Left unsaid in the summary by doktor-hladnjak · 2018-04-30 03:29 · Score: 1
  
  These are almost certainly "total compensation" numbers including salary, bonus and notably equity.
6. Re:Left unsaid in the summary by larryjoe · 2018-04-30 06:21 · Score: 1
  
  Is that that average salary includes data scientists, AI researchers, etc. which command higher salaries than typical software engineers. I would be very surprised to find that the median salary of a SWE at Facebook is $240k unless they bring a very impressive resume with them. The SWEs who just build out new user-facing features with Hack and React are likely not anywhere near that.
  It's not clear what "salary" means in the Wall Street Journal article. Is that base salary, or does that include stocks and other bonuses? Certainly the sampling of salaries on glassdoor and payscale are not consistent with the numbers in the WSJ article. From my experience, the glassdoor and payscale numbers are more believable than the WSJ article. For example, payscale says that the median age and tenure at Google are 29 years old and 1.1 years, respectively. If the median salary is $197k, that means that offers for new college grads at Google at somewhere near $197k, which is mind-blowing. The payscale estimate of median salaries is $107k, which is more believable (at least before considering stocks and bonuses).
7. Re:Left unsaid in the summary by swillden · 2018-04-30 09:06 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah ide like to see more numbers. Im sure there are some WAAAY HIGH outliers pushing that number up.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Median
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
8. Re:Left unsaid in the summary by swillden · 2018-04-30 09:59 · Score: 1
  
  I'm sure the numbers refer to total compensation: salary, bonus and equity grants.
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by Salgak1 · 2018-04-30 00:59 · Score: 4, Interesting

And that's the flip side of it: The so-called "Golden Handcuffs". We have it, to a lesser extent, in Metro DC as well. The pay is significantly higher, and you adjust your lifestyle to it. And then. . . .companies outside "the bubble" cannot offer that level, even if the cost of living is low enough that it's a defacto lifestyle IMPROVEMENT. . .
1. Re: The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:57 · Score: 0
  
  âGolden Handcuffsâ(TM) refers to pay/benefits being so high that youâ(TM)re unable to leave a situation that you otherwise would (e.g. hotrible job, but the payâ(TM)s amazing). Having your standard of living increased, then being unable to go back to a previous lifestyle, is known as âlifestyle creepâ(TM).
2. Re:The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by supremebob · 2018-04-30 02:12 · Score: 2
  
  I'm not sure how much a lifestyle improvement a $200,000 a year salary would be when you're losing half of that to taxes and paying $4,000 a month for a friggin one bedroom apartment.
3. Re:The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:42 · Score: 0
  
  $200,000/yr puts you in the 33% tax bracket. Adding up all your tax brackets at $200,000 will yield an effective tax rate of 24.7%, leaving you with more than $150,000 after taxes. Factor in your $4000/month, and you're sitting at $100,000 of spending money.
  I'm not sure about how much of a lifestyle improvement this is either, but it seems to me that having a disposable income that is 25% higher than the base salary for the average programmer ($82k per BLS) probably makes you more better off than not...
4. Re:The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by mikael · 2018-04-30 02:48 · Score: 1
  
  They call it "Golden Jail" in Los Angeles as well. You've bought a house there, want to trade up to a bigger home, but can't really afford the prices. But you certainly don't want to move to a smaller home or somewhere further out. So you're trapped in a Golden Jail.
  Similar thing in the UK. Salaries tend to be higher down South especially close to and in London. People in the North of the country would always go "down South" to advance their careers or when there were layoffs. Then they get a payrise. But they can't afford to move out because they would have to take a pay cut.
  
  --
  Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
5. Re:The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by kencurry · 2018-04-30 03:11 · Score: 1
  
  $200,000/yr puts you in the 33% tax bracket. Adding up all your tax brackets at $200,000 will yield an effective tax rate of 24.7%, leaving you with more than $150,000 after taxes. Factor in your $4000/month, and you're sitting at $100,000 of spending money.
  I'm not sure about how much of a lifestyle improvement this is either, but it seems to me that having a disposable income that is 25% higher than the base salary for the average programmer ($82k per BLS) probably makes you more better off than not...
  California will take 9%, plus some city, muni bonds, association fees. etc. It will add up to around half when all is accounted for.
  
  --
  sigs are for losers (except to point out that sigs are for losers)
6. Re:The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by imgod2u · 2018-04-30 07:19 · Score: 1
  
  Half of 200k is more than 3/4 of 100k. But realistically, 200k is just salary. Compensation involves much more than that so you're talking about possibly *saving* 200k/year in equity+cash.
  Do that for 5 years and you can go live without worry elsewhere.
7. Re:The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 07:21 · Score: 0
  
  Chances are your adjusted gross income will not be 200k if that's your salary. It will most likely be less because of exemptions, deductions, credits, etc.. Plus, there are likely some items on your paycheck that are taken out on a pretax basis (health insurance and flexible spending accounts come to mind), so that makes your AGI even lower.
  And if California is like other states, your state taxable income is the same as your adjusted gross on your 1040 in most cases. So they would take 9% of that, 9% of 200k. Same for city, muni bonds, association fees, etc.
8. Re:The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by swillden · 2018-04-30 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  California will take 9%, plus some city, muni bonds, association fees. etc. It will add up to around half when all is accounted for.
  No way that is going to add up to another $50K
  
  --
  Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
9. Re: The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 13:24 · Score: 0
  
  If your income is $200k, and you are paying more than $20k in taxes, you need an accountant. Or a new accountant. I just paid less than 4% in taxes, not including SS/Medicare. Amazon probably collect more in sales tax from me than fed/state income taxes.
10. Re:The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by painandgreed · 2018-05-01 04:02 · Score: 1
  
  I'm not sure how much a lifestyle improvement a $200,000 a year salary would be when you're losing half of that to taxes and paying $4,000 a month for a friggin one bedroom apartment.
  Even if there is some lifestyle cuts between location and payroll, the main takeaway is that the amount you save for retirement will probably be a similar percentage of salary. So after retirement, those with lower saleries in lower cost areas can essentially stay where they are. Those with hire salaries could stay where they are or retire to the lowercost areas in style.
11. Re: The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by Anonymous Coward · 2018-05-01 11:52 · Score: 0
  
  This.
  Say u earn 80k outside the valley, live comfortably and can save 20% of your income.
  In SV u earn 200k, live in lesser conditions and can only save 10%.
  You're still saving 4k more a year.
  Bump that to 15% and you're saving double what middle America does.
  So it's a choice, live well now and retire at the same level or suck it up and bit and have a more comfortable lifestyle in retirement
12. Re:The "Golden Handcuffs". . . . by supremebob · 2018-05-02 07:17 · Score: 1
  
  Don't forget sales tax, gas tax, property tax, car registration, etc... all those things are expensive in California.
Your slip is showing by swm · 2018-04-30 01:02 · Score: 2

that has made the USA the most successful company in the history of the planet.
The definition of *Talent* has changed by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:23 · Score: 0

30 years ago, the *Talent* of Silicon Valley were the god of programmers
Now, the so-called *Talent* Silicon Valley treasures are those scoundrels who sell ideas, get a so-called 'startup' running, get money from investors, and then ... vanish
1. Re:The definition of *Talent* has changed by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:03 · Score: 0
  
  The whole face of SV has changed. Thirty years ago, Hewlett Packard was a technical instruments company, whose calculators were the best in the business. Compaq made PCs that were one of the few truly IBM compatibles. Apple had their Mac IIx out, which was insanly priced... but was a machine that did the job.
  Now the ideal for a SV company is like the German firm that took ICO money, post a Southpark "... and its gone!" item to their web page, and go laughing to the bank.
2. Re:The definition of *Talent* has changed by mikael · 2018-04-30 02:43 · Score: 2
  
  At the top of the food chain were the big iron companies that made UNIX workstations and servers (Sun, SGI, HP, Dec, Digital, Apple, Fujitsu), chip makers (MIPS, Intel), high-speed networks (Cisco) and databases (Oracle). At the far end of the peninsula were Pixar and ILM. Microsoft crushed big iron UNIX with Windows NT. They got companies to abandon their own OS variants and use Windows NT instead.
  If you look around the internet for "Silicon Valley wall posters", you'll find cartoon style maps of all the companies that used to be there:
  https://www.siliconmaps.com/20...
  http://archive.computerhistory...
  
  --
  Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
3. Re:The definition of *Talent* has changed by mnemotronic · 2018-04-30 04:37 · Score: 2
  
  Nice maps. Where is Hooli on there? ;-)
  
  --
  The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
4. Re:The definition of *Talent* has changed by mikael · 2018-04-30 13:31 · Score: 1
  
  Technically, it would be in Playa Vista down in Los Angeles
  http://www.hdcco.com/hbos-fict...
  
  --
  Vintage computer adverts: http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/computers-and-software-ads
No shit. by Qbertino · 2018-04-30 01:36 · Score: 1

Captain Obvious strikes again!

--
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
No it won't. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:38 · Score: 0

It's always going to be the center of tech, ....

As far as Biotech is concerned it isn't.
And the innovative things I'm seeing in medical care in India will one day benefit everyone in the World - except for us in the USA because we have one fucked up medical care system.
But by all means, if some "tech" company that rehashes shit and makes an app for it, sure Silly Valley is it.
Silly Valey jumped the shark in the 90s.
All that glitters by nehumanuscrede · 2018-04-30 01:48 · Score: 1

isn't always gold as the saying goes.
Those salaries look pretty decent, until you factor in the cost of living out there. I get a good laugh from folks who are paying $1M+ for homes and need four room-mates just to make it work. I would love to see someone track / post their expenses for a few months just to compare how outrageous things really are.
I would post mine, but don't want all the California types moving here as they tend to bring all the silly ideas that caused them to move away in the first place along with them. :D
1. Re:All that glitters by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:16 · Score: 1
  
  Very wise. I live in Austin, and we are getting 200 Californians a day, with the number increasing. All have the snotty attitude that Texas is beneath them and they are just here for the paycheck. Unlike the Bay Area, Austin has the ability to expand in any direction, so there is no reason for the housing costs here, except for demand, and the fact that Austin has no viable public transportation system... and will remain that way.
  Of course, it is funny seeing the Californians step outside of the Austin bubble and panic.
Just cost of living really... most are doing worse by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:55 · Score: 0

Real simple, I fell for this once and left my $120K job in Michigan for a 240K job in Manhattan NYC. Immediately realized how expensive it really is to live there, wasn't living nearly as well or able to find half the things I wanted in the area without leaving and spending a day just to buy something.
I came back but leveraged that to get $150K here in Michigan. I plug that into a cost of living calculator for comparable salary and those numbers are basically spot on.
150K in MI results in needing 340K to be equal in NYC, and 265K in California. Numbers seem just fine.
circle-jerk demands high salary by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 01:59 · Score: 0

self-promoting circle-jerk demands high salary, not exactly news.
This directly contradicts previous article by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:02 · Score: 0

Just a few days ago, there was an article on Slashdot that claimed "programmers knew that their own ladder to prosperity was on fire and disintegrating fast. They knew that well-paid programming jobs would also soon turn to smoke and ash." Yet here we are talking about $240,000 median pay for software engineers. Boy, it sure seems like well paid programming jobs are turning to smoke and ash with median pay of $240,000!
1. Re:This directly contradicts previous article by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 02:56 · Score: 0
  
  When you are earning over $240,000/year, that isn't an entry-level software engineer job writing unit tests. It's going to be a software architect position leading large teams, making project plans, presenting at conferences, writing books, being on committees and all sorts of other things.
2. Re:This directly contradicts previous article by datavirtue · 2018-04-30 03:55 · Score: 1
  
  You do realize that statistically, literally no one does that stuff right? .001 == 0
  
  --
  I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
3. Re:This directly contradicts previous article by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 09:02 · Score: 0
  
  When you are earning over $240,000/year, that isn't an entry-level software engineer job writing unit tests. It's going to be a seasoned bullshit artist.
  FIFY
Your hatred of America is showing by mi · 2018-04-30 02:13 · Score: 2

the most successful company in the history of the planet
I'm pretty sure, that's Japan, actually...

--
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
1. Re:Your hatred of America is showing by eric_harris_76 · 2018-05-02 00:11 · Score: 1
  
  I hear it's not been doing so well lately. For a rather large value of "lately".
  
  --
  There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
Typo alert by talexb · 2018-04-30 02:34 · Score: 1

> Employees at Google's parent company Alphabet earned "a median pay package of more than $197,000" in 2017, around 18% lower than Facebook's median salary of $240,000, the Wall Street Journal reports. Per the Journal, this illustrates the competitive "talent war in Silicon Valley, where talented engineers are in limited supply." These two salaries were more than $100,000 above Amazon's median pay, which sat at $28,446.
Typo alert. Amazon's median salary is probably $128,446, based on context .. and reality.
I made $28K CAD in 1983, living in Toronto. I don't imagine American engineers made that little anywhere in the last thirty years.
1. Re:Typo alert by iotaborg · 2018-04-30 04:06 · Score: 1
  
  No, it's $28k, not a typo; you can dig into Amazon's proxy statement to confirm this. Amazon hires a lot of low wage workers (i.e. warehouse), which pushes avg. salary down.
2. Re:Typo alert by iotaborg · 2018-04-30 04:09 · Score: 1
  
  *median salary, not avg salary.
3. Re:Typo alert by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 09:00 · Score: 0
  
  it pushes both down since the distribution center work force is at least 80% of total head count.
It's all about the options by HockeyPuck · 2018-04-30 03:06 · Score: 1

Amazon's salaries are notoriously low because the majority of their compensation is in the form of stock. So you could get 2/3rds of your "total comp value" in the form of stock instead of a cash bonus/salary like in other companies.
1. Re:It's all about the options by iotaborg · 2018-04-30 04:12 · Score: 1
  
  This is simply not true, base salary is still the main % of total compensation (maybe 70% of total comp). Amazon's median wage is so low because they hire a lot of low wage workers, i.e. for warehouses. In any case, the SEC statement is based on total compensation, not base pay.
Median is irrelevant. Look at sigma distance. by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 04:13 · Score: 0

Median is irrelevant. Look at sigma distance.
Re:When you're as talented as Tardchris by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 04:34 · Score: 0

You make 50K$ a year, pay your bills and have a YouTube channel in Silicon Valley!
That's success!
FTFY — Creimer :P
Re:When you're as talented as Tardchris by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 04:46 · Score: 0

That's a very low bar for success, Tardchris.
Where is the significant other, Tardchris? Where is the car? Where is the house? Where is the family? You are operating at the level of a teenager, Tardchris.
But a teenager has something to look forward to, like losing his virginity, finding love, starting a family.
Not a sudden heart attack on public transit at the age of 49.
Actually Linux destroyed traditional *nix by perpenso · 2018-04-30 04:47 · Score: 2

Microsoft crushed big iron UNIX with Windows NT. They got companies to abandon their own OS variants and use Windows NT instead.
Actually that was Linux. People running *nix tended to stay with *nix. Microsoft's OS was brand named "workstation" but it was not displacing traditional *nix workstations. *nix never really made it to the desktop of average workers, *nix users tended to be high end and specialized and remained so. DOS, OS/2 and Windows 3.x were what Windows NT displaced on the desktop.

Servers were a similar story. traditional *nix servers were largely displaced by Linux or FreeBSD. Windows server users tended to be those new to servers. Microsoft captured a large chunk of new users, of the growth, but not much displacing of existing *nix. And *nix captured a large chunk of the new users / growth too.
1. Re:Actually Linux destroyed traditional *nix by outlander · 2018-05-01 05:49 · Score: 1
  
  NT was kind of a gateway drug, I think, insofar as it taught bean counters that licensing costs could be driven down lower than Big Iron vendors were demanding, and *then* Linux came in at either Opex-only subscription costs (Red Hat etc) or entirely Opex-free (CentOS, etc). Since Linux had command compatibility with lots of big iron Unixes, the technical teams took to it and the bean counters took note, and that was the end of paying for OSes (for the most part).
  It was interesting to watch some of the specialized software vendors (Cadence, Synopsys, Platform, etc) adapt to Linux.....their costs per unit remained (and, really, do remain) pretty high. When software like OpenLava (an open-source LSF variant with command and binary compatibility with Platform LSF) became available, IBM (which owns Platform) suddenly became much more reasonably about pricing, which had become downright predatory in the last release before the FOSS alternative became available.
  
  --
  "Truth is what works" -- William James "It works!!" -- o-dark-AM comment
2. Re:Actually Linux destroyed traditional *nix by perpenso · 2018-05-01 19:06 · Score: 1
  
  I'm kind of fuzzy on whether Linux or NT came first. As a developer I started using Linux and NT about the same time, 1993 IIRC, configuring the PC to multi-boot DOS/Win31, WinNT or Linux.
  
  I started noting Linux displacing traditional *nix at the university. Professors who could not explain why they had to have a Sun/SGI box got a commodity PC running Linux. Student labs also got PCs running Linux, however an interesting thing happened there. Linux was the gateway to Windows for the student labs. Linux replaced the traditional *nix workstations with commodity PCs and students asked that these PCs also be able to run Windows. So the lab's PCs could dual boot Linux or Windows. Linux opened the CS lab doors to Windows. Before that it was all *nix, either terminals to VAX or traditional workstations.
Re:When you're as talented as Tardchris by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 05:00 · Score: 0

I'm not Chris. I'm just a random AC who will jerk your chain whenever you post bullshit about the legendary I.T. closet cleaner. - Creimer :P
Re:When you're as talented as Tardchris by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 05:22 · Score: 0

Why post bullshit when we can get the straight shit from Tardchris himself? Complete with the usual crammar.
Let me guess, Chris: you're going to DMCA your own interview?
" I'm just a random AC who will jerk your chain whenever you post bullshit about the legendary I.T. closet cleaner [youtu.be]. - Creimer :P"
1) That's not very random
2) AC's generally don't sign with their name.
Wow, that atherosclerosis sure is cutting off the blood to the old noodle, huh Chris?
Re:When you're as talented as Tardchris by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 05:30 · Score: 0

Not true! As a random AC, I sign with my name. - FatCashewsLoveMe
No dah by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 05:59 · Score: 0

Pay more, get better talent. Supply and demand.
Wars cost money by nospam007 · 2018-04-30 06:20 · Score: 1

But in Silicon Valley, War earns a salary, a fat one on top.
hmmm, sounds like elitist propaganda by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 06:30 · Score: 0

After all, billions of people are looking for work. Indeed, if it wasn't for class barriers and corruption, there'd be no labor shortages, wages would be fairer and life would be far better for most people. This can't and won't change because our leaders are selfish, greedy and unethical. Of course, if you can't see this, perhaps you're biased? The truth is often bitter.
Re:When you're as talented as Tardchris by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 07:06 · Score: 0

Buy a clue and get a fucking life. - Anonymous Cashews
San Francisco is trash by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 07:19 · Score: 0

San Francisco is the worst city in America.
It's full of psychotic leftists who, despite their complete lack of common sense and below average IQ, think they're elites. The city is covered in shit and piss, and the smell wafts through the air 24-7. Traffic is the worst of any major U.S. city.
And for all this, you get the most expensive prices in the country.
1. Re: San Francisco is trash by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 13:33 · Score: 0
  
  Let me guess, your neighbor is Creimer and he overflowed his diaper on the way to the bus?
Re:When you're as talented as Tardchris by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 10:05 · Score: 0

Or you can become a creimer shill. How much is creimer paying you?
Time for this year's annual... by Anonymous Coward · 2018-04-30 10:20 · Score: 0

DESPERATE SHORTAGE OF IT WORKERS!!
headline from the usuual suspects.
*sniff sniff* I smell a media blitz coming our way.
Today's bullshit tactic -
1) cite unconfirmed, *self-sourced* statistics from two companies known to be wage and employment maniipulators, lawbreakers and knowing and systematic liars and found guilty in a court of law of the same.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-google-lawsuit-exclusive-idUSBREA3N28Z20140425
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-google-others-settle-anti-poaching-lawsuit-for-415-million/
2) cite statistics from the two of the most profitable companies not just in Silicon Valley, but everywhere in the US as if such were somehow indicative of anything.
3) ignore the fact that programmedrs are fleeing / not applying to Google because of their debased, immoral, really just psychotic corporate culture as revlealed in Demore's lawsuit and well documented elsewhere by their own employees' postings.
http://media.breitbart.com/media/2018/01/8675d.png
http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2017/08/07/revealed-inside-googles-sjw-cabal-blacklists/
http://media.breitbart.com/media/2018/01/345454.png
https://pjmedia.com/jchristianadams/employee-lawsuit-reveals-google-intolerant-race-cult/
Sorry to source so heavily from "right wing news"sites, but MSM sites don't seem to be interested in covering any of this in any particular detail. It's not "fake news" , whatever that is suposed to be these days.
I know of zero that' 0.00 people who are interested in working at Google in any capacity. Supposing that ANNY of these stats are even related to reality- and I don't supose that- there's a word for it; it's called "stay pay". Stay pay is the never-even-hoped-for amount of money you give employees who would otherwise be jumping a sinking ship or, in these cases, jumping a ship they can see will presently be sinking.