Slashdot Mirror
UK Car Industry On Alert Over Reports Some Hybrids Face a Ban (bbc.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from the BBC: The UK's car industry has hit out at the government over unconfirmed reports ministers will target hybrid vehicles as part of a new emissions crackdown. New cars unable to do at least 50 miles on electric power may be banned by 2040, a ruling that would hit the UK's best-selling hybrid, Toyota's Prius. The SMMT car trade body said "misleading" government messages were damaging the industry and hitting jobs. In a short statement, the Department for Transport denied plans for a ban.
The Financial Times and Autocar said that the government's Road to Zero car emissions strategy was due to be unveiled imminently. It follows last year's announcement by the government that it would ban the sale of all new diesel and petrol cars in the UK by 2040. But the position on electrified models was unclear, and Road to Zero is due to clarify the situation. The FT and Autocar reported that vehicles which could not travel at least 50 miles using only electric power would be outlawed. "Unrealistic targets and misleading messaging on bans will only undermine our efforts to realize this future, confusing consumers and wreaking havoc on the new car market and the thousands of jobs it supports," said Mike Hawes, chief executive of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. "We cannot support ambition levels which do not appreciate how industry, the consumer or the market operate and which are based neither on fact nor substance. Consumers need clear information about the right vehicles for their driving needs and it is again disappointing for both industry and consumers that vitally important information about government policy is being communicated by leaks."
The Financial Times and Autocar said that the government's Road to Zero car emissions strategy was due to be unveiled imminently. It follows last year's announcement by the government that it would ban the sale of all new diesel and petrol cars in the UK by 2040. But the position on electrified models was unclear, and Road to Zero is due to clarify the situation. The FT and Autocar reported that vehicles which could not travel at least 50 miles using only electric power would be outlawed. "Unrealistic targets and misleading messaging on bans will only undermine our efforts to realize this future, confusing consumers and wreaking havoc on the new car market and the thousands of jobs it supports," said Mike Hawes, chief executive of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders. "We cannot support ambition levels which do not appreciate how industry, the consumer or the market operate and which are based neither on fact nor substance. Consumers need clear information about the right vehicles for their driving needs and it is again disappointing for both industry and consumers that vitally important information about government policy is being communicated by leaks."
Politicians love to pass feel good laws for their successors to ignore. If it's effective date is after the next election, it's just posing.
This is simple: Either batteries 'moore's' law analog will holdup and battery powered cars will win on the market, or it won't and this law will be ignored. In either case, this law is an ass.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
So banning cars that can't do 50 miles all electric over twenty years from now is unrealistic and damaging for the industry now? That makes no sense. Perhaps if they were going to ban existing cars that can't do 50 miles all-electric in twenty years, then people would be just starting to think about that, as some cars last that long, but on average cars only last ten years. But that's not what they're talking about. The article clearly says it's for new vehicles.
I doubt making changes in requirements for cars in ten years would be a problem. Most cars get a major refresh every five years or less, so there's plenty of time for manufacturers to adjust.
Sure, the Prius is horrible as a plug-in hybrid, as it doesn't do a decent job of running all-electric (or so I've heard), but Toyota has decades to fix that.
This proposed rule looks to be more descriptive than proscriptive. Does anyone really expect any manufacturer will still be selling vehicles for general use in twenty years that aren't at least mostly electric? That's not what the manufacturers themselves are saying. At the rate things are shifting, I doubt there will be many cars with tailpipes being sold new by 2030, let alone 2040 (but I'm an optimist).
The current Plug-in Prius already can do 50 km (30 miles) on an electric charge. If battery technology improves or Toyota is willing to accept a bit more weight for a larger battery, they can match the new requirements. And they have another 22 years to get there.
C - the footgun of programming languages
There are a lot of rural areas in the U.K., too. Sure, I can see a ban on private vehicles in areas with congestion issues. They could eliminate all urban parking entirely that way, which would allow for some really nice changes. Most urban dwellers won't likely need their own vehicles.
But there's no need to ban private vehicle ownership altogether.
Sure there is: Control.
People not utterly dependant on government just don't 'love the state' enough. They have a plan to fix that.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
By the time 2040 rolls around, two or three sets of batteries from your car will be leaking chemicals in a landfill.
It just NEW cars.
Indeed. TFA makes it sound like they are going to confiscate cars. The proposed ban is only on sales of NEW cars, and since the effective date is 22 years from now, it should be of no concern to anyone making or buying a car today.
Car batteries are almost 100% recyclable.
If so, someone probably broke the law. These particular batteries are in categories that require proper disposal which will in general always end up somewhere other than in a landfill. Recycling them is not difficult.
They don't get consumed by the age. All of the original elements are still there, they've just moved into physical and chemical configurations that have reduced the charge they can hold.
More importantly though, a battery that can still hold an 80% or even a 50% charge has other applications that could multiply its useful lifetime. Once enough used ones become available, someone will figure out that they can do things like build cheap household or utility-scale backups from them. They won't be as compact as units using all fresh batteries, but they will be in an application where that is no longer important.
Cars getting more expensive is the only thing the government has done... And making cars more expensive only reduces people's quality of life as they become less able to travel, or are forced to spend more on travel they have no choice about.
Cars are arguably worse for the environment after government regulation... They regulated the amount of CO2 but not other emissions, the end result has been lots of diesel vehicles which emit little CO2 and plenty of other more harmful chemicals. Now they are starting to realise the mistake, but there are millions of diesel vehicles on european roads now.
Cars getting more fuel efficient and safer never needed government regulation, car manufacturers are doing this on their own. People actually want to buy cars which are safer and use less fuel.
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
You could put a windmill on top of the car and use that to recharge the batteries as you roll down the road... /sarc
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
50 miles electric range is trivial to implement TODAY, zero innovation required.
Several countries are planning zero emission requirements 10-15 years earlier than the UK proposal for 50 miles electric range.
By 2040 it will be difficult to find a new car with a combustion engine anyway, regardless of that the UK government does.
---- Sig. gone.
A car that's only existed less than 21 years would be banned in 22 years from now, unless it can extend its electric only range from 11 miles to 50 miles.
That's a huge ask for Toyota to be able to push their technology that much.
Wait... that 11 miles it the first gen plug in hybrid. Their second generation does 25 miles. I think they might be able to hit 50 miles by 2040.
Many European countries are closing in on "fake-hybrids". If you care about electrification of cars this is a good thing. People were/are buying expensive hybrid (sport) cars with tax incentives but never bothered to charge the batteries or use the cars properly. The Netherlands cancelled hybrid tax incentives. In Belgium, in order to be classified as a hybrid, they introduced a minimum battery/weight ratio starting from 01-01-2018. Other EU countries have similar plans. Here in Belgium the Porsche E-Hybrids and BMW edrive models were very popular. For 2018 those sales will plummet. Hopefully the car manufacturers will update their hybrid models and increase the battery packs.
My issue is that the U.K. (or any) government does not get to dictate how motor companies choose to innovate.
The people of the UK, through the actions of their Government, do however get to dictate which technologies are not permitted to be sold in their country.
If a car company doesn't wish to "innovate" by putting a 51 mile range battery in with the combustion engine then nobody will give a shit. They just wont be able to sell cars in the UK.
What if by 2025 Nikola Motors' fuel cell technology gets adopted by the industry?
Without seeing the wording of the law it's not yet possible to tell whether that engine would be allowed in 2040 or not. If not, there would still be plenty of time to update and modify the law.
But in the end, they accomplished nothing
Laws on agricultural use of pesticides and other chemicals have had a material impact on the quality of food.
Laws on emissions from cars have had a material impact on air quality.
Taxes (enabled by laws) have had a massive impact on car fuel economy.
Subsidies (enabled by laws) have been essential to companies like Tesla.
Why would laws suddenly stop working on this occasion?