Ticketmaster Hopes To Speed Up Event Access By Scanning Your Face (engadget.com)

Ticketmaster's parent company, Live Nation, has announced that they have teamed up with and invested in a face recognition company called Blink Identity. The ticket sales giant may have plans to scan your face instead of a ticket to grant you access to a venue. Engadget reports: In its first quarter financial report (PDF), Live Nation has explained that Blink has "cutting-edge facial recognition technology, enabling you to associate your digital ticket with your image, then just walk into the show." According to Blink's website, its system can register an image of your face as soon as you walk past a sensor. Blink's technology can then match it against a large database in half a second -- in a blink, so to speak. It's also apparently powerful enough that you don't even have to slow down for its system to recognize you: Just walk normally, and if the technology gets a match, it'll automatically open doors or turnstiles to let you in.

Comments

And if it doesn't...

[Anonymous Coward]

You get hugged by the doors/turnstiles.

Re:And if it doesn't...

[JMJimmy]

Pity the fool who goes in KISS makeup and confuses the system

Personally, this will guarantee I never go to another concert. Facial recognition is one step too far

Re:And if it doesn't...

[Monkey-Wrench-Inc]

Pity the fool who goes in KISS makeup and confuses the system

Personally, this will guarantee I never go to another concert. Facial recognition is one step too far

Or an entire Insane Clown Posse audience/crowd in Juggalo face paint.

Re:And if it doesn't...

[apoc.famine]

You do know that there are smaller venues/artists that aren't affiliated with Ticketmaster, right?

Never going to another concert is like never eating another apple because red delicious apples suck.

Re:And if it doesn't...

[Harvey Manfrenjenson]

The problem is that Ticketmaster has what amounts to a monopoly on many of the larger venues in the US. Back in 1994 Pearl Jam, which at the time was one of the biggest bands in the world, tried to book a tour without using Ticketmaster and they found that they simply couldn't do it. And as the linked article indicates, Ticketmaster has only gotten bigger and more powerful since then.

Re:And if it doesn't...

[JMJimmy]

Ticketmaster is a monopoly where I live and the problem becomes the venues. Do you think they'll turn the system off at other times or do you think they'll collect as much data as they can and sell it?

Re:And if it doesn't...

[apoc.famine]

Then don't see Pearl Jam. There are plenty of other artists in the world. In any little city over about 20k people I can almost guarantee that on a given weekend a bunch of people are playing music that you can go see.

Re:And if it doesn't...

[apoc.famine]

Ticketmaster isn't a monopoly anywhere. You're telling me that every bar, dancehall, lounge, and club where you live uses Ticketmaster? Bullshit. Most of them are probably collecting $10 in cash at the door and stamping people's hands when they enter.

Does Ticketmaster try to monopolize large venues and very popular bands? Sure. But that's a fraction of the music in the world, and a tiny fraction of the venues.

Re:And if it doesn't...

[JMJimmy]

The live music scene where I live is on life support outside of major venues. It's a sad state of affairs.

Re:And if it doesn't...

[Harvey Manfrenjenson]

Well, sure I can do that, and personally this issue doesn't affect me a whole lot anyway, because when I go to see music it's usually at a club rather than a big theater or stadium. But I think it's outrageous that I don't even have the *option*. For example: I would have liked to see Leonard Cohen's final tour, and that would have almost certainly required dealing with Ticketmaster. They're a horrible company that I don't want to give any money to, and that was true even before they began asking me to hand over facial recognition data.

Re:And if it doesn't...

[K. S. Kyosuke]

a sad state of affairs

Now that's a great band name!

Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Casandro]

Which is even lower depending on the subjects, chances are high that if you just walk towards the gate, it'll open for you. After all that system will be optimized towards letting people through even if the match is not very accurate.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[religionofpeas]

You can set the system to minimize false positives, and then fall back to manual ticket check for false negatives.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Anonymous Coward]

How do you check for false positives, tho? Also I think by time they would want to replace the original ticketing method for this face scanning (there is no way they would want to uphold two distinct ways of handling one issue). Currently either you have a ticket or not, but in that case if you arrive on time and find yourself stopped at the gate because of some "software" issue which may get resolved in an hour .. a day or more, good luck watching the game/show then.
I kinda see more downsides here than ups.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[DrXym]

Perhaps you can set it to minimize false positives but that increases the false negatives. Chances are it will be tuned to a sweet spot where accuracy is 99% or whatever. And naturally it will be totally screwed up for any venue where people wear facepaint, hats, scarves or other gear so the tolerance has to be turned down.

And now the law of unintended consequences kicks in. If this wonderful system gives anybody without a ticket a 1 in 100 chance of simply walking through (more if you bear a resemblance to somebody else going, e.g. a sibling) then you're going to have people trying to do just that. So you end up with more crowds, arguments, fights etc. than if you just scanned tickets.

Of course perhaps the venue could check tickets any way (e.g. a preclearing queue) or lay on extra security to deal with these virtual turnstile jumpers. But that defeats the purpose of the system in the first place.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Buggz]

How do you check for false positives, tho?

You don't. You set the system to err in side of caution, in order to minimize getting them to begin with. Then you ask for a physical ticket in case of a false negative.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[religionofpeas]

If this wonderful system gives anybody without a ticket a 1 in 100 chance of simply walking through (more if you bear a resemblance to somebody else going, e.g. a sibling) then you're going to have people trying to do just that.

How many people are willing to go through all the effort to show up at an event for a 1% chance of getting in ? If that's 10% of the total amount of people, you only need 0.1% extra empty seats to accommodate them without arguments or fights. That's probably already less than the no-shows.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Jane Q. Public]

Just tell them hell no. You're bitching about all the details but forgetting the big picture. Which is: hell no.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Joce640k]

I want to know how they'll 3D scan your face when you're buying your tickets from home.

Apple sheep aside: How many people have a big brother style facial scanner at home?

And b) The gates aren't going to simply open and let you waltz right in, they'll still want to make sure you aren't smuggling your own drinks+snacks into the area.

Whatever the reasons behind this multi million dollar investment are, we can be sure it ISN'T for user convenience.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Anonymous Coward]

"Then you ask for a physical ticket in case of a false negative."

So they're stuck maintaining two distinct systems. What's the point?

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Mascot]

Expediency. If, say, one in a hundred gets denied, that means 99 people got to just walk through instead of holding up the line while being checked, and more will keep going through while that one person is off to the side getting manually processed. Also, if going by that figure, reducing the number of people needing manual processing by 99%, means fewer staff needed to do just that.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Mascot]

Hm, having written that it occurs to me that we're talking about events here, which probably means security searches, which makes ticket processing a negligible part of the time consumption.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[hazardPPP]

Whatever the reasons behind this multi million dollar investment are, we can be sure it ISN'T for user convenience.

Clearly. This either has something to do with security, or with cutting labour costs (less people at the gate - the security guard is now the person who also checks the occasional person who needs to show a ticket, instead of having both a ticket inspector and a security guard at each gate), or both.

There is no way this will be faster than with experienced (by which I mean, people who have done more than 2 shows) ticket people at the gates. Turnstiles and automatically opening gates...right. There's a reason why, during rush hour in many subway systems, they open one or two gates wide and put a ticket collector/inspector next to it. It's faster than the automated system.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Anne Thwacks]

Apple sheep aside: How many people have a big brother style facial scanner at home?

Its called "Facebook" and you don't even have to go home to use it.

Seriously, if this system is not an offense against the GDPR, the GDPR is a total failure.

Re: Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Chances are these are lab datasets with good lighting and a low number of facial mods. Deploy this to a concert or sports venue where people wear heavy makeup, facepaint, piercings, etc, and I think this will stall the process.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Joce640k]

Much simpler solution that's infallible:

Put a QR code on the tickets with the person's name and the last four digits of the credit card used to pay for them.

Scan the ticket, swipe the card, you're in. Now go to the metal detectors and bag search queue, which takes much longer.

Don't have that credit card? Go over to the other queue and show your ID.

It would be very difficult for scalpers to beat that and it's a lot cheaper and more likely to work than facial recognition.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[gnick]

How do you check for false positives, tho?

You don't. You set the system to err in side of caution...

Each person gets to enter the venue once. If the same guy shows up a second time and can produce a ticket, you had a false positive and a ticketless person may or may not have gotten in.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[b0s0z0ku]

Better yet, don't go to the metal detector and bag search queue. Get rid of that Orwellian shit. Yeah, yeah, you can't make the world perfectly safe.

Also, what's wrong with scalping? If there's financial gain to be had, the tickets are mispriced in the first place.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Expediency isn't the problem when it comes to scanning tickets. You spend far more time in the security check than you do getting your ticket scanned. No, this is a way to stop reselling tickets. Nothing more, nothing less.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[nitehawk214]

Correct, this is more about eliminating ticket scanning employees than saving event-goers time.

Except now when the system fucks up there will be one beleaguered ticket checker stuck with an impossibly long line, instead of plenty of other people there to check tickets for you.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Anonymous Coward]

The point is that it makes it more of a pain to buy the tickets on a secondary market. Ticketmaster and the like have absolutely hated scalpers for ages, I'm sure they're doing this as part of an effort to reduce the risk from scalping.

Also, they've probably figured out some way of selling or using the data they collect to make this happen.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with scalping is that Ticketmaster doles out huge numbers of tickets prior to sales being opened to the public, and by the time a popular act's tickets go on sale to the public, most of the tickets are already sold.

There are other issues for people buying the tickets, like the difficulty in figuring out if they're counterfeit or used and the like, but this is mostly about Ticketmaster wanting to control the resale market.

Re: Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Ticketmaster is part of the secondary market now. They just want 100% of the action. A wealth of sophisticated scalpels has cropped up and they transfer ticket sales via tm Apis. Tm gets a fee for the transfer. It's really gross.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the US, there is no GDPR here.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[CanHasDIY]

Even simpler solution: respect the "Right of First Sale" and be happy you sold any tickets to begin with.

Re:Those systems have a 99% accuracy

[DrXym]

I would suggest the answer to that is "more than now". People already turn up to gigs and sporting events without tickets and hang around the entrance trying to buy them, or even to cause trouble. Now this system encourages those people to enter the grounds and try their luck. It is obvious it will happen.

I'm also being generous with the 1 in 100 false positive. Chances are in practice it's a lot worse.

Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Rockets84]

Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown at the entrance to a venue where I live. It's security do bag searches of people in front of who want to bring them into the venue. Of course it isn't really about security, it's about making sure you're not bringing outside food or drink so they can gouge you for food & drink at the venue. I've suggested to the venues that they should have lines for people that bringing bags to speed it up but they don't seem interested or "it would be confusing for other patrons".

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[AmiMoJo]

It's mostly to stop ticket touts selling on tickets at inflated prices. If the name on the ticket doesn't match your id, you don't get in.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Rockets84]

To stop scalping could be useful but if I buy 5 tickets for my family, 2 adults & 3 children, I wouldn't want my children's facial data in some database controlled by Ticketmaster of all people. Ticketmaster aren't exactly a glowing example of good corporate citizenry and knowing them they'd find ways to monetise this additional data.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure it also has to to with making it harder to sell tickets second-hand.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Rockets84]

I'm sure it's not about speeding up the process at all. I think anyone can see through Ticketmasters BS. I bet you'll only be able to resell tickets through Ticketmasters own official market place for resllers with Ticketmaster taking a cut of course. Don't get me wrong scalping and fake tickets are a real issue but there's nothing about this move from Ticketmaster that's of real benefit to the customer just them protecting their own interests aka profits.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[tlhIngan]

Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown at the entrance to a venue where I live. It's security do bag searches of people in front of who want to bring them into the venue. Of course it isn't really about security, it's about making sure you're not bringing outside food or drink so they can gouge you for food & drink at the venue. I've suggested to the venues that they should have lines for people that bringing bags to speed it up but they don't seem interested or "it would be confusing for other patrons".

It's both nowadays. A lot of venues are doing enhanced ID scanning - it's no longer acceptable to just have a ticket, but you must (as a group) have the ID of who purchased the ticket(s) on you. This could be as simple as producing the credit card used to buy the tickets, to showing government photo ID. Naturally, most people aren't actually ready to show ID.

Then there's security, yes they do bag checks, but most venues have adopted X-ray scanners similar to airports - while some venues might scan for outside food and drink, most are scanning for weapons and bombs. And the usual requisite metal detectors and such.

Most people aren't prepared for this - while going to an airport they'd usually get rid of their knives and other potential weaponry, when going to an event, most people will be carrying - a pocket knife, some other metal thing or accessory, etc. And if you think that's nuts, wait until there's a cosplay event to really drive security up the wall.

The security checkpoints seem to go by OK - when it was implemented, they gave lots of notice to arrive early and get through and things seemed to go well. But when they implemented the ID check, it lead to a lot of chaos and lots of people having to get refunded because they were stuck in the line and only made it in an hour after the show started.

Remember - security is relatively independent and is embarrassingly parallel - they can add security scanners to cope with the traffic very easily. But ID checks are not - you can bet a lot of the delays come from groups getting split up and now everyone spends 2 minutes stuck at the gate because either the group needs to be reunited by the gate people, or the person who bought the ticket needs to walk to every single person to show the ID. Given people will buy 3-4 tickets at a time, this will lead to lines stalling out because everyone got split up and has to be reunited, which is chaotic when you got crowds of people and everyone's separated.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[geekmux]

It's mostly to stop ticket touts selling on tickets at inflated prices.

Well, now that we've unwrapped this bullshit burrito, let's get down to the corn-riddled meat of it. This isn't about curbing inflated ticket prices. This isn't about protecting vendors who thrive on gouging customers with onsite food services. This isn't even about security.

This is about building a fresh database of facial recognition data, to include men, women, and children. This is about testing the accuracy of said system. This is about testing the tolerance level of the masses to accept such surveillance as the new "norm" in our world.

In other words, this is about Control.

If the name on the ticket doesn't match your id, you don't get in.

Two years ago no one was talking about this. Now, matching a physical person to every ticket sale is suddenly a critical requirement? Also remember who ultimately pays for a mult-million dollar system like this, as if ticket "service fees" weren't high enough. Oh, and let's not forget about the massive amount of additional law enforcement resources that will be showing up at venues like this. They will be there to abuse the new do-my-job-for-me system to literally scan the masses for wanted criminals, and perform arrests onsite. Your service fees and tax dollars at work. I haven't even started down the potential rabbit hole of abuse, and that's before this database inevitably gets sold and/or stolen.

When people bitch about an Orwellian future, they should remember that silence coming from the masses defines acceptance.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[geekmux]

I'm sure it's not about speeding up the process at all. I think anyone can see through Ticketmasters BS. I bet you'll only be able to resell tickets through Ticketmasters own official market place for resllers with Ticketmaster taking a cut of course. Don't get me wrong scalping and fake tickets are a real issue but there's nothing about this move from Ticketmaster that's of real benefit to the customer just them protecting their own interests aka profits.

That's a cute theory you've got, but this has fuck-all to do with ticket sales, speed at venues, or even scalping.

You don't make a million-dollar investment and build a facial recognition database of men, women, and children to not sell it to every bidder who comes asking for it. You really need to start thinking of the value of such a database. Ticketmaster sure as shit has.

Re: Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[bn-7bc]

Notakkways about overcharging for food/drink inside, if people try t bring in alcohol, get too intoxicated and there is a spot check there might be fines / issues with the figure licence (at least in Norway, we have rather strict rules)

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[religionofpeas]

Two years ago no one was talking about this.

Ticket scalping has been a problem since these events were created. This is just a new attempt at a solution using technology that didn't exist 2 years ago.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

"I wouldn't want my children's facial data in some database controlled by Ticketmaster"

Grow some fucking balls man!!!

I wouldn't want mine or anyone's facial data in some database controlled by Ticketmaster

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[geekmux]

Two years ago no one was talking about this.

Ticket scalping has been a problem since these events were created.

And how the hell is a venue-deployed facial recognition system going to help curb that? What, you're going to capture pictures of the gullible victims? Listen to their drunken "guy wearing a hat, I think" descriptions of gone-by-now scalpers? Oh, and nothing like deploying yet another treat-everyone-like-a-criminal system in order to catch the bad guys. Yeah, that punch in the gut for every law-abiding citizen is justified once again.

This is just a new attempt at a solution using technology that didn't exist 2 years ago.

Facial recognition has been around a lot longer than 2 years. If it was truly all about fixing Ticketmaster problems, then Ticketmaster would NOT be drooling at the notion of selling this database to every bidder who comes along. Fact is, this will become a revenue generator for Ticketmaster, and it probably won't do a damn thing to solve any ticket-related excuse they're using to justify it.

Here's my prediction; Five years from now Ticketmaster will declare a War on Scalpers while the system that promised to fix that quietly becomes a part of DHS infrastructure...

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

" it's no longer acceptable to just have a ticket, but you must (as a group) have the ID of who purchased the ticket(s) on you"

And I'm out.

Fuck. This. Shit.

Why do we as a society tolerate it?

Everyone is going to get pushed harder, and harder, and harder for additional information, scanned ID, scanned personal imagery, matches in Government endorsed facial recognition databases (have you seen the Chinese social credit system? Scary as hell!), until what? Where do you stand? I sure as hell won't tolerate being treated like that to go to some event that may make for a cool memory with bragging rights, but it'll all be over in a few hours and at the end of the day, is just entertainment. My entertainment is supposed to be easy, fun, and frivolous. Draconian security and BS like the ID checks above absolutely suck, and if this means I never go to a concert or big game again in my life, then so be it, I just don't care.

That's where I stand on the matter. What about you?

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Joce640k]

Ticket scalping has been a problem since these events were created.

So? How does that affect Ticketmaster? Why would they invest millions of dollars to prevent it?

Scalping is only a problem for buyers, not for sellers.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[religionofpeas]

And how the hell is a venue-deployed facial recognition system going to help curb that?

You compare the face with the face in your database of all people that bought a legit ticket. If that doesn't produce a match, you ask for the ticket and ID, and do a manual check.

Facial recognition has been around a lot longer than 2 years.

But not with the quality that's needed.

selling this database to every bidder who comes along

If that's what you're afraid of, then make it illegal. In the EU that would already be the case with existing laws.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[religionofpeas]

Scalping is only a problem for buyers, not for sellers.

If that were true, the problem could be solved by Ticketmaster auctioning off all tickets instead of selling them for a decent price. They'd make a lot more money.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[dwillden]

The vast majority of legitimate ticket purchases are made online, via phone or through licensed ticket resellers. None of those are set up to capture facial data. So how does this stop scalpers? Also there is a legitimate secondary market, of people who get tickets and then realize they are not able to attend. They aren't going to be collecting facial data either.

geekmux nailed the real purpose of this advance of Big Brother.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

ding. ding. ding.

hell, i wouldn't be surprised if some TLA was partially funding this bullshit tech, either.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[hazardPPP]

You compare the face with the face in your database of all people that bought a legit ticket. If that doesn't produce a match, you ask for the ticket and ID, and do a manual check.

Matching tickets to names and forcing the buyer / person indicated as attendee at the time of the purchase of the ticket to be the person who uses a ticket is a terrible way to fight scalping.

Can't I buy tickets for a friend as a gift? What if I misspell his name or am unaware of his legal name in his ID (example: lots of East Asian people living in North America adopt English names informally...I know the guy as "John" but his actual name in his passport is "Zhenyu")? Can't I give the ticket to a friend or family number if I am unable to attend? Finally, what's wrong with re-selling the ticket at face value (i.e. without me making any sort of profit) if for some reason I cannot attend (I get sick, have to attend a funeral, whatever)? To prevent a relatively rare occurrence in terms of number of tickets sold (scalping) you're inconveniencing a large number of people. OK, for some events where scalping might be actually or potentially through the roof (I don't know, like, the FIFA World Cup final or whatever), this type of policy may be justified...but for the local concert in your city for which you bought tickets via Ticketmaster? It's overkill.

There are much easier ways to fight scalping other than deploying a massive surveillance system. You'd probably catch and convict a whole bunch of scalpers with less money. Not to mention simple solutions (max. amount of tickets you can buy in a single transaction and/or within a given period of time, etc.).

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

More of a statement than a reply, how is ticket scalping a "problem"?

Any purchaser of tickets should have a fundamental right to on-sell their tickets to whoever they wish. Unfortunately the airline industry has managed to squash this, somehow, but I don't think we should let it happen to other "tickets" in our lives.

So what's the problem with scalping again?

If those buying tickets don't want to buy them at the higher price, then guess what? Don't buy them.

If you just think carefully about the whole thing you'll realise the entire concert system is corrupted to its core by "promoters" and middle-men. There is nothing "fair" about the prices you pay for the event, and anything that "drives interest" and promotes the event, if good for those running it, so they encourage it.

Scalping is an entire non-issue.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[drinkypoo]

If the name on the ticket doesn't match your id, you don't get in.

Two years ago no one was talking about this.

Ten years ago when I was evaluating ticketing systems for a tribal casino in California, everyone was talking about ticket verification systems that tied tickets to IDs as an option. Most of them were focused on counterfeit detection, however.

Re: Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations on your oppressive laws!

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Joce640k]

If they're doing it "for the fans" then the problem can be solved a lot easier than this.

eg. By printing names on tickets and requiring people to show ID. I'm sure a true fan wouldn't mind that.

It's also pretty much garanteed to work, unlike this system. I bet the foul-ups caused by this will make quite a few headline stories.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

"what's wrong with re-selling the ticket at face value (i.e. without me making any sort of profit)"

What's wrong with re-selling the ticket at any value? Genuinely curious to understand what all the fuss is about. Why is this market so special?

Re: Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

Carry ins for food and water as a small part of it. They are actually looking for weapons and alcohol, and sometimes for drugs depending on the city.

Not scanning tickets will save time, but the real reason for scanning faces is it keep out trouble makes. Most shows has some people kicked out and arrested. Once they have your face on file, you're not going to be let in the next show if they think you're going to cause trouble. Events are going to start to get real boring.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[arth1]

So? How does that affect Ticketmaster? Why would they invest millions of dollars to prevent it?

To quell the competition. Ticketmaster depends on reselling tickets at inflated prices too, and don't want a fair playing field.

There is a fairer system, and it's called "payment at the gate".

Re: Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm with you. Ticket bastard can scan my ass.

Funny that I just learned about a local music shop that has a (free) weekly jam session. No face scanning. No ticket sales. No crotch searching for illicit water bottles. No drm. No sony rootkits. No bullshit. No echoing with the sound of salesman.

Just people coming together to listen and play music. Maybe even singing along without having to concoct a fair use argument.

That's what music is about. That's entertainment. How refreshing!

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Mitreya]

I wouldn't want my children's facial data in some database controlled by Ticketmaster

Don't worry, for extra $5/ticket, you could put just the parent's faces with full biometric info
And for a convenience fee of only $17.50 per ticket, you could still buy tickets the old-fashioned way!

Re: Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Opportunist]

But getting loaded before the event and then making a mess inside is a-ok?

You have strange laws.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[b0s0z0ku]

Then here's hoping for another good, hard recession before 2020. Nothing like a recession to get the funding of government TLA and military filth cut to the marrow.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[b0s0z0ku]

I've seen bag check, but I've never seen ID check. Maybe I go to the wrong events. I always thank the suckurinetea checker drone for the prison experience, and ask him/her when they got out. Can't beat 'em, make them uncomfortable. Goes for all scum in the law enforcement and privacy theft industries.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not your mate, you boot-licking, milquetoast pussy.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[geekmux]

And how the hell is a venue-deployed facial recognition system going to help curb that?

You compare the face with the face in your database of all people that bought a legit ticket. If that doesn't produce a match, you ask for the ticket and ID, and do a manual check.

3rd party resellers account for over 25% of ticket sales today. When upwards of 1 in 3 gate-check faces will never match the ticket-purchase face, it questions the entire point of a system claiming to "speed up" processes.

selling this database to every bidder who comes along

If that's what you're afraid of, then make it illegal. In the EU that would already be the case with existing laws.

Laws won't prevent the theft of such a database.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm fine with it as long as it gets me into the concert quicker. If you find that you have something to hide that prevents you from showing your face in a public venue, perhaps you should clean up your life, mate.

Gonna be funny as hell watching you eat these words when you're forced to miss and event and defend yourself against a false-positive reading from the Ticket Terrorist Face-O-Tron 3000. Have fun with that shit.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me of how public transit is in my city. It costs a quarter extra to board a bus with cash, compared to if you use some creepy heavily-promoted card that is tied to your personal information and tracks you every time you scan the thing.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[eth1]

The problem with giving tickets to friends if you can't use them, selling at face value, and scalping is that Ticketmaster can't charge service fees for it

Ticketmaster has a system for reselling your tickets, but I'm sure they get to double-dip their obscene service fees if you do that. Matching buyer with attendee is only to force people to use their system and pay more fees if the ticket is to be transferred.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[sexconker]

Scalping is only a problem for buyers, not for sellers.

If that were true, the problem could be solved by Ticketmaster auctioning off all tickets instead of selling them for a decent price. They'd make a lot more money.

Ticketmaster already does that. Before tickets go up for sale, Ticketmaster "sells" them to third party auction sites. The biggest one being ticketsnow.com .
Then those sites sell off the tickets however they feel like. Auctions or just super expensive straight sales.
Anything that gets unsold is returned to the Ticketmaster pool. Ticketmaster then bangs the drums and announces that more tickets to that hot event will be available on a specific date.

Then the repeat the process. Why do you think Ticketmaster lets you check a box to be emailed if more tickets become available? The venue isn't adding seating capacity, and every ticket sold to actual people comes with a "NO RETURNS, NO TAKE BACKS, FUCK YOU" policy.

The kicker in all of this? Who do you think actually owns ticketsnow.com ?

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Altus]

We don't ask for ID now, last time I bought tickets I didn't have to give the name of everyone who was going with me, I didnt even have to decide who was going with me until right before the show.

If scalping is really this huge problem (and it isn't, certainly not for ticketmaster who still gets paid... shows still get sold out and the inability to get tickets just increases what people are willing to spend the next time around) then we would be tying ID to tickets already, it really wouldn't be that hard.

This doesn't serve anyones interest on the surface of it so it is probably worth looking at other ways that people might be benefiting from this scheme.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[Altus]

They already did, the fee was paid when the ticket was originally purchased.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[mjwx]

It's mostly to stop ticket touts selling on tickets at inflated prices.

Well, now that we've unwrapped this bullshit burrito, let's get down to the corn-riddled meat of it. This isn't about curbing inflated ticket prices. This isn't about protecting vendors who thrive on gouging customers with onsite food services. This isn't even about security.

This is about building a fresh database of facial recognition data, to include men, women, and children. This is about testing the accuracy of said system. This is about testing the tolerance level of the masses to accept such surveillance as the new "norm" in our world.

In other words, this is about Control.

I've never really worried about government control. The govt knows who I am, they have my biometrics (passport), my NI number (tax), my car registration, my fingerprints were first taken when I was five... If they were to do something untoward with this information they'd have acted by now. What the government has are a load of rules around this data that are enforced and there would be a lot of warning signs before any of this changes.

Private industry on the other hand has no qualms about screwing me over for a quick quid. About abusing my personal data for their gain. This is why we need strict laws regarding what they can do with my private data, how they are supposed to protect my private data and under what conditions they are permitted to collect it in the first place.

Re:Scanning a ticket is never the slowdown

[geekmux]

I've never really worried about government control. The govt knows who I am, they have my biometrics (passport), my NI number (tax), my car registration, my fingerprints were first taken when I was five... If they were to do something untoward with this information they'd have acted by now. What the government has are a load of rules around this data that are enforced and there would be a lot of warning signs before any of this changes.

How well did you really think a "load" of rules surrounding data privacy and protecting sensitive information ultimately prevent theft? Perhaps you should ask one of the millions of citizens who were victims of the OPM data breach.

You really need to understand the fact that we should not be asking any organization HOW are going to protect data; we should now be asking WHY they're collecting it in the first place, because it is absolutely fucking inevitable that the data will be leaked or stolen. Your government may have not found a reason to act against you (yet). That's hardly guaranteed when other entities are in possession of your information.

Private industry on the other hand has no qualms about screwing me over for a quick quid. About abusing my personal data for their gain. This is why we need strict laws regarding what they can do with my private data, how they are supposed to protect my private data and under what conditions they are permitted to collect it in the first place.

When considering potential damage and comparing industries, remember that governments openly employ assassins. Also remember every governments history. None of them are pristine, and most are riddled with some seriously evil shit that has been done against their own citizens.

ambivalent on this

[Cederic]

This is a use of technology that, done properly, adds value and makes everybody (except the jobless ticket checkers) happy. Reduced scalping, shorter queues, lower hassle, happier event goers.. lots of good things.

I just don't think they can do it properly. I don't think the technology is reliable enough, I don't trust them to adequately protect their database and even if they're that mythical company that does actually want and successfully implement good data security, they'll still have to hand over all that data for misuse by the Government (and local councils).

So I like the idea, I support them wanting to do this, I just have deep misgivings about the whole thing.

Re:ambivalent on this

[NicknameUnavailable]

Just like every other technology, it has the dark purpose and the nice thing they pitch it as to the public. This will be used to spy on people, people will accept it because they think it will cut down on lines. But really who cares, people who worship singers are basically cattle anyway.

Human rights violation...

[Anonymous Coward]

They can bite me, your not scanning my face. 3d printed mask already and waiting.

Re:Human rights violation...

[Joce640k]

Do you even own a face scanner?

It's online sales, how are they even going to scan people?

(Apple sheep aside)

Re:Human rights violation...

[Anonymous Coward]

The face scanning happens at the venue not at purchase time. And what does Apple have to do with anything? You’re dumb enough to think only iPhone X users have their face in a database? If you’re that stupid, I’ve got a bridge you might be interested in...

Re:Human rights violation...

[iamhassi]

At least I know Apple isn't selling our faces unlike Apple's competitors.

Let's see this shit work at an ICP Jig

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see it now the jugalo's would go on a rampage
What da ya mean I have already gone inside??

Scanning face faster than scanning ticket?

[fahrbot-bot]

... its system can register an image of your face as soon as you walk past a sensor. It's also apparently powerful enough that you don't even have to slow down for its system to recognize you: Just walk normally,

Seems like it would be even faster to just hold up my ticket (presumably w/ QR or Bar code) and have it scan that. Face matching seems more like a way to keep people from reselling tickets -- and stepping on your privacy.

Re:Scanning face faster than scanning ticket?

[religionofpeas]

The system is meant to replace manual identity checks, not ticket checks.

Re:Scanning face faster than scanning ticket?

[geekmux]

The system is meant to replace manual identity checks, not ticket checks.

Uh, let's not blindly dismiss that first part; we should be asking why the hell manual identity checks are required in the first place, in order to even justify implementing a system like this.

Re:Scanning face faster than scanning ticket?

[religionofpeas]

we should be asking why the hell manual identity checks are required in the first place

To combat ticket scalping.

Re:Scanning face faster than scanning ticket?

[b0s0z0ku]

I'm assuming it's to replace both, since the ID "is" the ticket.

Re:Scanning face faster than scanning ticket?

[Anonymous Coward]

Right. keep parroting that horseshit.

There will be a story posted here how someone with a warrant for an outstanding traffic ticket was recognized and arrested at one of these venues because of this system. That is the real reason for it. A police state.

Re:Scanning face faster than scanning ticket?

[CanHasDIY]

we should be asking why the hell manual identity checks are required in the first place

To combat ticket scalping.

So in other words, for no legitimate reason other than market capture.

You could have just said that.

Re:Scanning face faster than scanning ticket?

[Anonymous Coward]

The solution to ticket scalping is to sell tickets at market price.

Accuracy

[blackest_k]

I was just reading this earlier

https://www.theverge.com/2018/...

used by south wales police (uk) it identified around 2500 people as persons of interests and around 450 arrests were made but only around 200 were actual matches

is this likely to be better?

Re:Accuracy

[Anonymous Coward]

Looks about right. Those 250 have suspicious looking faces or heads and must be subject to extended scrutiny. For your children's sake.
The amount of evilitude a government can do with this along with data mining is staggering.

Re:Accuracy

[Mitreya]

is this likely to be better?

Yes, I would expect this to make Ticketmaster a lot of money.
In "buy a regular ticket" fee, "my face changed" fee and "sell the face database to everyone" profit

This will never be misused....

[Bonker]

...and the companies involved will always be ethical and judicious in what they do with the massive amount of biometric data such a system would collect.

I mean, seriously, Ticketmaster. They're above reproach, right up there with luminaries like Monsanto, Haliburton, and Comcast. There's no way we could ever regret this move.

TicketBastards is going after scalpers?

[Anonymous Coward]

So TicketBastards is going after scalpers? Again?

What ever happened to the doctrine of first sale?

Obligatory Half life 2 reference

[recrudescence]

This is eerily reminiscent of those citadel gates in half life 2, early in the game, where you try to walk through a passage and a camera just turns and goes red on you and signals a "Nope" sound. And if you try to talk to anyone after that, they're all like "I can't be seen talking to you I'll get in trouble".

Re:Obligatory Half life 2 reference

[Anonymous Coward]

Too late. The camera has already recorded the interaction and the proximity and you are now associated.

obligatory

[Reverend Green]

In Soviet America, concert watches you!

The real reason

[110010001000]

The real reason they want to do this is to stop the secondary sale (or transfer) of tickets.

Re:The real reason

[HarrySquatter]

They’ll let you do that in limited ways using only the TicketMaster-approved second-hand market.

Yet another reason

[MitchDev]

Ticketmaster is evil....

pro sports and some events have metal detectors

[Joe_Dragon]

pro sports and some events have metal detectors now days.

Agreed. Their claim is a lie.

[sabbede]

The time to check a ticket is trivial, stopping secondary sales is all they care about.

While on one hand, it's good that they are - scalpers ruin the whole system for everyone else - but on the other, they're being unnecessarily deceptive and are going to make it impossible for someone to give their ticket to a friend if they can't go.

whew

[cascadingstylesheet]

Thanks goodness that is solved; we wouldn't want a free market breaking out or anything!

Part of the cartel

[Anonymous Coward]

TicketMaster is owned by Live Nation, spun off into a "private" company by Clear Channel and Bain Capital. I'd sooner not go to a concert than give these fucks any money.

Your power company...

[Anonymous Coward]

... may also be making money with face recognition:

https://www.myajc.com/news/local/torpy-large-all-all-you-just-another-brick-the-geofence/JqX4EGWeJnFhmb1ZKVGtcP/

Face scanning?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't have a face, you insensitive clod!

Great if no ID required

[llZENll]

Wow this is great, so if I buy my ticket with cash, bitcoin, or a temporary credit or debit card, all I need is my face when I buy it, and all I need is my face when I claim it, right?

Note the implication here is that now nothing is tied to the ticket except my face, not my name, address, real credit card, ID, or anything. This would actually be acceptable, unfortunately I'm guessing this is not the case...

One more reason.

[Anonymous Coward]

One more reason I'm happy that I have no interest in listening to music at all. Not in my car. Not while doing other tasks. And certainly not in a giant concert. I feel sorry for people who give up so much of their privacy. It's funny to see people bitch so much about the NSA yet blindly use Amazon Echo, Facebook, GMail, and stuff like this.

Re:One more reason.

[b0s0z0ku]

Go to concerts at bars and small venues where entry is cash at the door and there's no security theater bullshit.

Re:One more reason.

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly this. The drinks and musicians are better at smaller venues

It's worse than that

[bagofbeans]

TM doesn't control the database. BI does, and guess what... they have a relationship with Homeland Security.

All to aggregate everyone's behaviour.

Fails ...

[PPH]

... on KISS fan day.

Legislation needed

[DrYak]

That's why a few law needs to be passed, e.g.: limiting the price of such re-sell to the exact price at which the ticket was bought.
(France has such laws).

Other wise you can bet that the "TicketMaster-approved second-hand market" will reimburse the original owner the price of *original* ticket (minus a fee) and will bill the new user the *current price* of the ticket (plus another fee), and the second hand marker owners (and their shareholders... Ticket master) will pocket the price difference and twice the fee. It's not going to be as such high profit as ticket scalpers who try to resell desirable rare tickets for 10x the price, but it will be a guaranteed revenue stream (tons of people can have a last minute change of plans).

My rule of thumb for rocking the fuck out

[Anonymous Coward]

If the venue searches people coming in, it's time for you to go to smaller venues (i.e. bars). And yes, that might mean going to see some new bands instead of continuing with the old ones who are finally well-established enough that they get to play at shitty venues. Hopefully they'll still be able to do some occasional small shows, and also, you can still buy their recordings. But it's time to see new bands! Get back to the bars.

Fuck Middlemanmaster

[Anonymous Coward]

They add no value. The very definition of a middleman. And if you use them to sell your ticketz all I can say is Fuck You. Only whores would cooperate with these middlemen. Fuck whores and fuck middlemen.

Screw you, Ticketmaster

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a chance. You're not putting my face in your 'database'. 100% chance this ends up in the wrong hands. Meaning ANYONES hands. No, no, no.

Re: Where??

[Anonymous Coward]

Even the dive bars in Calgary scan your id at the door.

Time to be a Blank and opt out. Only way to be free..

Re: They already do that

[Anonymous Coward]

Ticketmasterruns Stubhub and all the other ticket reselling sites. They already have illegal operations selling to professional resellers.. one gigantic fuck you to freedom.

So fuck all the whore artists who play ball. Fuck them all right in the wallet.

FUCK Ticketmaster.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll never spend money on an event if I have to use Ticketmaster.

And you know, I won't lose anything that matters in the bargain.

Golden State Killer and how this is related

[bjdevil66]

The GSK was caught by a harmless, private company collecting biometric data in a very positive way on the surface. "Send us your data and we'll tell you about your ancestry!" One of the GSK's distant relatives bought the service, and that eventually turned into the government's tool to turn a quiet, seventy-somthing retiree into a soon-to-be convict.

In that case, privately collected data was used for "good", but it won't always be government entities (see China). As for the private sector, they're probably worse. If Facebook has done anything (besides connect past friends and future adulterers), it has shown us that private corporations like Ticket Master don't give a damn about us beyond manipulation and eventual monetization.

Re:Golden State Killer and how this is related

[Actually, I do RTFA]

that case, privately collected data was used for "good", but it won't always be government entities (see China)

While I tend to agree with most of your points, China is a government entity. Even most of their nominally corporate actors are de facto government entities.

Bad headline

[TimMD909]

Better headline: Ticketmaster seeks to squeeze more money out by collecting biometric data on adults and children. George Orwell was unable to be reached for comment.

Slow admitance is desirable

[acoustix]

This solution attempts to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

First off, as many have pointed out, it's the security checks that tend to really slow down admittance to an event.

Second: Slow admittance is a safety feature. You don't want tens of thousands of people rushing into the corridors of an arena all at once. Slow admittance spreads out the crowd.

Re:Slow admitance is desirable

[Anonymous Coward]

This solution attempts to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

Exactly, they are providing a lame excuse to scan your face in great detail. Then they'll sell it to Big Brother for a nice fee. Now Big Brother can track you whenever you are outside your house, in a store or restaurant -- thanks to face tracking.

Enjoy you $25.00 ticketmaster "conveience fee"

[Anonymous Coward]

Enjoy you $25.00 ticketmaster "conveience fee" you cock-smoking teabagger