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Apple Scraps $1 Billion Irish Data Center Over Planning Delays (reuters.com)

Apple ditched plans to build an 850 million euro ($1 billion) data center in Ireland because of delays in the approval process that have stalled the project for more than three years, the iPhone maker said on Thursday. From a report: Apple announced plans in February 2015 to build the facility in the rural western town of Athenry to take advantage of green energy sources nearby, but a series of planning appeals, chiefly from two individuals, delayed its approval. Ireland's High Court ruled in October that the data center could proceed, dismissing the appellants who then took their case to the country's Supreme Court.

32 of 197 comments (clear)

  1. I can't even imagine... by froggyjojodaddy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ... this happening in the US. I don't know the specifics of the story but I'm sure those 2 individuals would have been steam rolled by now

    1. Re:I can't even imagine... by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Yeah, I feel sorry for that small, rural town, missing out on about $1B for their economy, just because of two assholes.

      I'm guessing they won't be welcome in any pubs there for a long time to come.....

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    2. Re:I can't even imagine... by afidel · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not $1B to the local economy, it's a handful of medium pay jobs after the construction is complete, and because datacenters are so specialized the construction is usually handled by a firm that does nothing but plan and build them so you don't even get temporary construction jobs. From a land and resource usage perspective a datacenter is probably one of the worst candidates.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    3. Re:I can't even imagine... by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I don't think you know what a data center is. It doesn't create many jobs. The construction is just companies bringing in crews and when it is done they leave. The only effect on the locals is that they now have a big ugly data center and their utility rates probably go up. My guess the "green energy" source that Apple was going to use was hydro, which isn't "green" at all.

    4. Re:I can't even imagine... by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe in America where every last little scrap of money is everything this would be a huge lesson But I imagine that a small Irish town would rather NOT have those scraps of money (most of which will go to the architects and building contractors) and preserve their way of life. Unlike in the US, not every town is thrilled at the idea of becoming a strip mall for tech workers to get their ramen and dry cleaning and who bring the self-centered, clueless phone gazing monoculture culture of elitism and snobbery with them So yes, I think Apple got the hint that this community and the PEOPLE in it had serious reservations and some even colder feet, though they were tempted by the prospects, I think both parties are much better off with this deal being called off

    5. Re: I can't even imagine... by saloomy · · Score: 2, Informative

      Horseshit. Datacenter creation involves a lot of concrete work, a lot of electrical installs, bathroom fixtures, lighting, offices, carpet, doors, loading docks, asphalt in the drive ways and parking lot, etc etc etc.

      The only thing that will probably be custom and contractors flown in is for the low-volt and fiber networks. Everything else will have to be built to local building codes and inspected by the local authority, whom the local contractors have working relationships with.

      Then there is the maintenance, like painting, remodels, etc etc.

      In the middle, there are the jobs for the folks who man the datacenter.

      At the end, there are restaurants, hotel staff, and local nightlife who thrive on Apple employees and consultants that would come through to maintain and upgrade the datacenter. That's thousands of hotel room/nights those businesses won't see.

    6. Re: I can't even imagine... by 110010001000 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Data centers mostly do run themselves. Do you guys think data centers are staffed with thousands of workers?

    7. Re:I can't even imagine... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I think both parties are much better off with this deal being called off

      Elitism in a nutshell. You think you know something you know nothing about, and are all the more happy to tell people your view of the world is correct, without any indication you are right. I mean, you could be right, or you could let those involved decide for themselves.

      This case was an abuse of the legals system, where two people (elistists like yourself) insist they know better than everyone else. Tyranny by any other name.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    8. Re: I can't even imagine... by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      I don't think you know what a data center is. Go visit one. There are plenty in Northern Virginia. A typical data center employs about 100 people.

    9. Re:I can't even imagine... by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      How is that "unfortunate"? What is the benefit for building a Star Wars museum on public green space? Just so George Lucas can stroke his ego a bit more? I am glad you guys aren't city planners.

    10. Re: I can't even imagine... by thomn8r · · Score: 5, Informative
      A typical data center employs about 100 people.

      If that. The last data center I worked at belonged to a major telco; two huge warehouse-style buildings with a multitude of different data centers within them. The most people I saw on-site at any one time was about 20.

    11. Re: I can't even imagine... by 110010001000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Believe it or not, individuals are allowed to challenge things in court. I know, hard to believe that is still allowed. It really should be banned and only the State and Corporations should have the power to decide what is best.

    12. Re:I can't even imagine... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      By "abuse" you mean "exercising their legal rights as designed", yeah?

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:I can't even imagine... by omnichad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My guess is that the "green" energy is legitimizing their old tax shelter.

    14. Re:I can't even imagine... by NicknameUnavailable · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah, I feel sorry for that small, rural town, missing out on about $1B for their economy, just because of two assholes.

      Large companies don't build in small towns (especially in Ireland, of all places) to provide anything of substance to the local population. They do it because they can bribe a couple councilmen for zero tax burdens and in Ireland especially they do it because they already have deals to avoid most US and EU taxes. Of that $1b in costs the town might see a few thousand dollars, trickled down from their mayor and councilmen.

    15. Re: I can't even imagine... by rickb928 · · Score: 2

      "Those two guys who screwed this up for a town probably ruined a lot of lives."

      No, but they may have diminished the opportunities for many.

      --
      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    16. Re:I can't even imagine... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 3, Informative

      Please post what you describe as "data centers that look like shit". Also you do understand that most data centers are located away from town centers, right? With the space and power requirements, Apple and Google puts their data centers very specifically away from everything.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    17. Re:I can't even imagine... by UnknowingFool · · Score: 2

      Go do your own damn research. I'm not your servant. I just said "I don't want a data center in your town"

      I did. But what you are saying is that you won't back up your opinion when challenged.

      You haven't even seen a data center apparently.

      Please read my other post. I specifically posted images of Apple's data center in North Carolina. 1) You can't really see it from the road. 2) It's located 4 miles outside the nearest town.

      --
      Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
    18. Re: I can't even imagine... by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      "Unoccupied forest". People are really dumb. Those "unoccupied forests" are key to keeping you alive and healthy.

    19. Re: I can't even imagine... by Freischutz · · Score: 2

      Believe it or not, individuals are allowed to challenge things in court. I know, hard to believe that is still allowed. It really should be banned and only the State and Corporations should have the power to decide what is best.

      While tyranny is too strong a word, it's hard to get past the fact that in this case two cooks abused the legal system to block a project that has no detrimental effect on them and that includes the remote possibility of them getting leukaemia from all those magnetic fields since data centres are generally not located in the middle of residential neighbourhoods. Now if Apple had been fracking shale deposits in the area and poisoning their water supply I'd agree with you, but a data centre is just this big lump that sits there in an out-of-the-way place where it requires minimal public services while generating tax revenues for the local council. Hell, if the sight of a big white lump of a building offends your delicate sense of aesthetics a data centre can even be integrated into the landscape by making it subterranean. So please do explain to us how these people dragging a company through the legal system for three years over a data centre was a triumph for civil rights and public safety.

    20. Re: I can't even imagine... by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Informative

      People employed by corporations.
      People own corporations.
      Corporations pay taxes.

      In short, Corporations are just another group of people. ;)

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    21. Re: I can't even imagine... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Wow. Just wow.

      Many medical breakthroughs were made with socialized medicine and government research. NASA gets it's funds from the government, so it too is a socialized organization. They've come up with tech like heat resistant materials used in manufacturing and everyday life.

      No, people that can make a decent living off things that are passionate about what they do is what makes things. Are some of these people making it big because of capitalism? Sure, but it's not the only way.

      How many people have had their great ideas crushed and bought up by megacorps because they didn't want people's dependencies (i.e. profit margin) going away? Take a look a US Medicine now: how many real cures have come out of them, or is it "oh, you have to take this pill for the rest of your life"?

    22. Re: I can't even imagine... by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      The only thing that will probably be custom and contractors flown in is for the low-volt and fiber networks. Everything else will have to be built to local building codes and inspected by the local authority, whom the local contractors have working relationships with.

      Yes I'm sure the local economy (made up of approximately 4000 people in total) will be used for all that. It certainly won't be some construction firm bringing in labour from afar to do that construction, because only that town of 4000 people know how to build a datacentre according to code.

    23. Re:I can't even imagine... by Obfuscant · · Score: 2

      How is that "unfortunate"? What is the benefit for building a Star Wars museum on public green space?

      1. It wasn't 'green space'. It was a parking lot next to Soldier Field. Converting a parking lot into a museum is a huge benefit to the community.

      1a. A huge side-effect benefit may be that it convinces more people to use public transit to get to Soldier Field and/or the new Museum, pumping money into the public transit system and reducing the use of fossil fuels.

      2. The Tribune story refers to "4000 construction jobs". Four thousand construction jobs are a benefit to the community. These will be mostly well-paid union jobs in all of the trades. You don't build in Chicago without the unions getting involved.

      3. The story also refers to 2000 permanent jobs. Two thousand probably-better-than minimum wage jobs are a huge benefit to a midwestern community, especially in a city like Chicago. These aren't high-tech jobs, they'd be the kinds of jobs that could be part-time or entry-level.

      4. There are millions, if not billions, of Star Wars fans around the world, and a significant percentage of them would travel to visit the museum. They will be buying food and lodging and other things during their visit, and probably visiting other tourist attractions like the long-in-the-tooth Museum of Science and Industry or The Field Museum. This influx of tourist dollars is a huge benefit to the community.

      5. Lucas was going to pay the $750 million out of his own pocket.

      You ask "what is the benefit". What isn't the benefit?

      Just so George Lucas can stroke his ego a bit more?

      Why does it bother you that George Lucas has an ego, when the result of his ego is a huge boost to a big city economy? Cutting off your nose to spite your face is not a virtue.

      I am glad you guys aren't city planners.

      I'm glad you don't live in my city. Mr. Ludd would approve of you.

    24. Re: I can't even imagine... by kqs · · Score: 2

      That is truly impressive! To translate:

      "Anything I like from the government, I'll explain away as actually being from THE PEOPLE."

      "Anything I don't like from the government, is terrible because, by definition and holy writ, all which comes from the government is terrible, so say we all."

      The government is hardly perfect, but I worked in the computer field in the early 90s. The internet was just one network among a dozen or so capitalist ones, including AOL, Compuserve, Delphi, and more. The capitalist ones were run like cable TV: only a few channels, and no personal sites unless you paid off the network owner. The internet, created and funded by the US government, ended up winning, but it was a close thing and was never assured. If HTTP and Mosaic (both also government funded) not been created when they were, we would have a very different and far less pleasant global network.

      If the same way, NASA did wonderful things. I'm glad we allowed private companies to enter space when we did, and we should have allowed it earlier, but private companies never would have put up the money for something as amazing but unprofitable as the Apollo program. Government spends on basic research; private companies the pick it up when they can soon make money. You need both, and trying to cut the government part is incredibly short-sighted and stupid.

  2. Better article about the complaints by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Informative

    TFA article tells you crap about the complaints. Here's a much better article:
    http://www.datacenterdynamics.com/content-tracks/design-build/apples-irish-data-center-faces-new-hearing/96069.fullarticle

    "...objectors raise fears that it would flood golf course, and make inordinate demands on Ireland’s power grid."

    "The full proposal would reduce the habitat of bats and badgers, say some objections, and the Bord has also received a complaint from Athenry Golf Club, 1km away from the site. 'Our primary concern is the totality of the proposed development, especially the extent of the proposed masterplan, and the potential this has to alter the hydrology of the local area and potentially increase the frequency and duration of flooding already experienced at the golf club,' says the golf club’s appeal"

  3. Local economy by sjbe · · Score: 2

    Yeah, I feel sorry for that small, rural town, missing out on about $1B for their economy, just because of two assholes.

    Why do you assume that money would go predominately to the local economy? Obviously they would capture some of it but it's unclear how much. Plus having a large company come in and dominate the local economy is the very definition of a two edged sword. It can bring a lot of positive economic benefits but it also makes the local economy beholden to that one company and can absolutely ruin the local economy if/when they leave.

  4. Maybe some other stuff too? by argStyopa · · Score: 2

    I'd say that the recognition that the EU sees Apple as a cow from which many Euros can be milked might have more to do with this.

    There are LOTS of places they could build this.

    --
    -Styopa
  5. No Kelo vs New London, no corporate welfare by An+dochasac · · Score: 4, Interesting

    American style socialism favors the freedoms and rights of fictional corporate entities. European socialism favors the rights of individuals or the public good. In the U.S. foreign companies are leveraging Kelo V New London to stomp over individual rights, including declaring nearly new home as condemned, grabbing 40% of a city's water capacity and violating the Great Lakes pact.

    Ireland chose not to become a corporate whore this time but has tried American style corporate socialism in the past. Have you heard of the potato famine? Chances are you heard wrong. Irish farms exported other economically productive at the same time as the farmers starved. In the more recent past Ireland did bend over to Apple, Dell and other IT companies only to have them downsize or close down once their tax incentives expired. The Irish government also used tax money to buy distressed property after the first celtic tiger property bubble burst and then they sold it to REIT vulture funds such as the one managed by Dan Quayle. Quayle makes money while Irish homelessness is skyrocketing. Deja vu to the foreign slumlords who inspired the Irish land wars a century and a half ago. This may have been a poor decision but much poorer decisions are being made every day in pursuit of short-term corporate profits.

  6. From a local .. by wosmo · · Score: 5, Informative

    So, this is literally 5 minutes down the road from me (when the traffic's good) ..

    This isn't a popular decision here. I don't personally know anyone who had any objections at all - although we do note one of the people objecting resides on the other side of the country.

    On the other hand, it's not the end of the world either. Once they're operational, datacenters don't employ anywhere near as many people as you'd think. Especially when they're single-tenant and managed off-site. And as small and rural as Athenry sounds (and looks), it's turning into a commuter town anyway. The city would be considered a very reasonable commute by American standards. (I have colleagues that can get in in 10-15 minutes - but sometimes take an hour to get home. Traffic is our major problem here, and this site would have little impact on it.)

    Someone mentioned taxes. No-one's here is under any illusion that the topics are related. Denmark is not exactly a tax haven, and the two sites were announced at the same time. This is a stupid process that's been dragging out years longer than it should have, and ground to a halt enough times that the end was inevitable.

    Someone else mentioned renewables. It's entirely wind here. We don't have a lot of scope for hydro; it's just too flat to support it. We do have a lot of scope for tidal, but little willingness to tamper with the picturesque coastlines when wind is so very plentiful here.

    All in all, this is just a failure of process. Not the planning process itself, but the appeals process shouldn't be able to drag out so long as to destroy an opportunity. There should be a limit to how many appeals you can lose, otherwise the process stops being a battle of facts, and simply a battle of stubbornness.

    I mean, imagine if you were trying to build a home - and someone a few hundred miles away objected to it. And objected, and objected. And lost every time, but was able to continue objecting until the build was no longer feasible. You'd be asking where the line is too. People should be able to object, and those objections should be able to hold some weight - I think it's fantastic that the common man can actually win against someone the size of Apple. But if the developer wins, that should mean something too.

  7. Link to Google Maps by bigpat · · Score: 2