Australia To Ban Cash Purchases Over $10,000 (theguardian.com)

Long-time Slashdot reader skegg writes: Last night was federal budget night in Australia, and one of the announcements means Australians will face a crackdown on cash-in-hand payments in an attempt by the government to reduce money laundering and tax evasion. The government has turned its attention to the "black economy" in an attempt to raise billions of extra dollars and intends to limit cash payments for purchase goods and services to $10,000.
The financial services minister argues that currently the status quo "gives some businesses an unfair competitive advantage."

Comments

Simple solution:

[Alain Williams]

Transaction 1: $10,000 buy the car wheels and chassis; Transaction 2: $10,000 buy the engine; Transaction 3: $10,000 buy the rest of the car.

Re:Simple solution:

[Jeremi]

Transaction 1: $10,000 buy the car wheels and chassis; Transaction 2: $10,000 buy the engine; Transaction 3: $10,000 buy the rest of the car.

Yeah, they know about that trick; it's illegal too.

Re: Simple solution:

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, criminals are known for their strict adherence to the law.

Money laundering and tax evasion laws just need to be enforced. Adding more laws when you are already slacking is just an excuse for more slacking. This doesn't help it just punishes normal people. The criminals have their own ways and already operate outside the law.

Re:Simple solution:

[scdeimos]

I was just thinking the same thing. Only a couple of months ago I dropped $90K cash on a new car.

The government needs to decide whether cash is still a legal currency or not and then either stop trying to fuck with it or completely eliminate it from the economy.

Re:Simple solution:

[countach]

Your local Lamborghini dealer is probably not going to get involved in that. What the criminals will do is find some homeless person, set them up with a bank account, and work through them.

Re: Simple solution:

[CoolDiscoRex]

Hear hear! I also support taking rights away from people that arent me. Peope that aren't me, aren't me, and therefore they are almost certainly doing things that I don't do. All people who do what I don't do are bad, or at least I presume as much because nothing happens to me if I'm wrong.

Re: Simple solution:

[zaphirplane]

Cause everyone is excited at the 1,2,3,4 % fee

Re: Simple solution:

[Hognoxious]

Money laundering is taking proceeds of crime and funnelling them through an otherwise legitimate business in order to disguise their origin.

That's everywhere except the US.

There it's become a thing that they just tag onto other offences to get a higher sentence and/or pressure the defendant into a plea bargain.

Re: Simple solution:

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the article.

Check your assumptions.

It sounds heavy-handed, but anything over 10K needs to be done by cheque/check or electronic payments. When was the last time any legit small store had 10,000$ in the actual building in cash? Never.

Happens all the time. Legit outfits too. Just like civil forfeiture happens to innocents too, and they typically don't get their money back, n'mind reimbursed for the damage, or even an apology. A dropped charge and lingering stigma is usually the only thing you get for all the trouble.

That many criminals also prefer (or have to) keep large amounts of cash on hand does not change that.

And again, even a couple thousand a month can be labeled as "structuring", because who knows, maybe they're "part of a money laundring network". Or some other "reasoning" from "law enforcement". They'll think of something because they aren't in this game for justice, they're in the game to "produce convictions", thereby proving their right to exist and securing their budget for next year. It's quite telling that lots of civil forfeiture ended up strengthening the budget of the seizing enforcement agencies. The "thinking" behind this is quite clear and has nothing to do with going after crims. For some it's about the dosh. For a national government, it's entirely about control.

Nearly everyone pays by credit if given the opportunity, and cash only when it's items under $5.

That easily changes with the location and the demographic. Some like their credit cards too much. Elsewhere the situation is different. Even inside the USA, perhaps moreso outside. Wildly different.

I for one used to keep six months rent+food cash on hand, for no other reason than that a government agency once stole one of my bank accounts (over them making unwarranted assumptions; that happens too) and I didn't want to run the risk of not being able to pay rent before another account theft might get resolved. Now, I'm just broke, but if I came into money again, I'd do exactly that again. That's all entirely legitimately hard-earned, all-taxes-paid, money in the house and I'm not even a merchant.

I say your entire post consists of your assumptions based on anecdotes, which aren't evidence.

Re: Simple solution:

[Cederic]

When was the last time any legit small store had 10,000$ in the actual building in cash?

I see you've never worked in a city centre pub at a weekend.

How can this curb illegal activity?

[ZorinLynx]

If you're already engaging in an illegal transaction, money laundering, etc... why would you let the fact that paying over $10K in cash is illegal stop you?

Re:How can this curb illegal activity?

[mikael]

The black economy is usually someone paying a car mechanic, builder or joiner to do some work, while not declaring the transaction and pocketing the VAT/income tax for themselves. In rural areas, they also exchange or barter services instead of transferring cash. Sometimes payment is acceptable as bottles of wine, firewood, scrap metal, old appliances or anything else.

Re:How can this curb illegal activity?

[bobbied]

If you're already engaging in an illegal transaction, money laundering, etc... why would you let the fact that paying over $10K in cash is illegal stop you?

You won't, this will just keep honest people honest. Criminals will still do what they want.

Next step will be to convert all the paper currency into new script, requiring all cash to be exchanged (and identities recorded) for new (with daily limits) or deposited into a bank account (again with limits of new script withdrawal). That's what they did in India to curb this "off book" cash transaction thing.

Re:How can this curb illegal activity?

[hazardPPP]

If you're already engaging in an illegal transaction, money laundering, etc... why would you let the fact that paying over $10K in cash is illegal stop you?

Not only that, I actually fail to see how this measure solves anything.

The people who are the *real* problem when comes to tax evasion and tax avoidance - the super-rich who keep their money in offshore tax havens and the global mega-corporations doing double dutch sandwiches and whatever - don't do cash transactions over $10K. They have their lawyers wire the money from the Cayman Islands to Macau, or whatever.

Ordinary folks that pay the car mechanic or the painter in cash to avoid paying taxes don't pay over $10K in those transactions, that's usually a few hundred or a few thousand dollars.

So this might only catch criminals that seek to buy things at a legitimate establishment, say a drug dealer who goes into a department store or a car dealership. Probably not a very large demographics.

Re:How can this curb illegal activity?

[GerryGilmore]

This is a pretty dumb statement for one with such a low UID.
First, this was never intended to stop criminal-criminal transactions, but those where cash is used with a legitimate business (criminal-citizen), either to launder cash or just buy something without having a citizen's normal paper trail. Think cars, houses, even businesses.
Does that help you understand?

Re:How can this curb illegal activity?

[rogoshen1]

Aussies have a very long history of losing their freedom. In fact, it might be one of the defining characteristics of their country.

Re:How can this curb illegal activity?

[Zaelath]

It's hysterical though to watch Americans talk about freedom while having civil forfeiture laws that lets cops steal money and put it literally in their own pockets as wages.

Re:How can this curb illegal activity?

[dryeo]

Canada just removed legal tender status from any denominations that are no longer printed. The idea being to demonetize any $1000 bills still out there but it also means that the couple of $1 and $2 bills I still have are no longer legal tender.

Re: How can this curb illegal activity?

[Bing Tsher E]

The 'blacks count as a fraction of a person' law that you mention was actually a rule forced on the slave states by the non-slave states. The northern states didn't want blacks to be counted as a whole person because that meant more representatives would be apportioned to the states with lots of blacks in them. The southern states wanted blacks counted as a whole (non-voting) human.

Re:How can this curb illegal activity?

[dryeo]

Here in BC, it seems a favorite way to launder money is at the casinos and they'll be laundering more like a $100,000 in cash at a time.
I've also heard there's quite a black market for winning lottery tickets.

Re:How can this curb illegal activity?

[jaa101]

I have some bad news for you. At least here the government has to follow a process prior to confiscating your property, but they never need to charge you with a crime and you're the one who has to prove your property's innocence.

Well, good luck attracting drug kingpins then

[elrous0]

They're all moving back to Miami, where you can buy a mansion with a suitcase full cash still. The real estate agent will even agree to clean the coke dust off for free.

Crypto Currency

[Archangel Michael]

Thanks for the recommendation to move to Crypto Currency for all transactions over $10K. - Australian Unintended Consequences Department.

Re:Crypto Currency

[cheesyweasel]

All crypto transactions in australia over 10k are required to be lodged with AUSTRAC - http://www.austrac.gov.au/medi...

Re:Crypto Currency

[Archangel Michael]

Australians put up with that crap?

Re:Crypto Currency

[GumphMaster]

Yes, just like in the United States, for example, Form 8300 and Reporting Cash Payments of Over $10,000.

Re:First they ban guns, then they ban money

[bobbied]

What next? Free speech?

No need to take free speech... They don't have that now.. https://www.lifehacker.com.au/...

Has anyone told Orwell?

[meerling]

Then again, maybe they list George Orwell as one of their consultants on this decision.

I don't know about Australia

[DeplorableCodeMonkey]

But one of the things that as an American gets me about our government is the same people who would propose this will suddenly say "it's not arming terrorists when we discover that they're really misunderstood freedom fighters." Money laundering laws exist in no small part to prevent terrorist groups from self-financing and yet there has not been a single elected official arrested, let alone prosecuted and convicted, for activity that helps violent political groups.

What the hell happened to Australia?

[ickleberry]

I always thought of Aussie land as a vast remoteness where you can do whatever the fcuk you want. Jovial Mick Dundee characters everywhere throwing back pints of beer in the pub.

10 year olds flying planes

9 year olds driving around in 'utes'

Anything less than 10,000 acres is a hobby farm

Everyone carrying a rifle or two

Everyone too relaxed and chilled out to bother worrying about anything


Then I had someone visit from Aussie land and it turns out you need a fcuking license to drive a jetski. In the open ocean where it's an absolute torture to even find someone to crash into. Everything is gone health and safety like in the UK and the cops are hiding behind every corner to hand out fines. What the hell happened to this once-carefree country?