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North Korea Announces Plans To Dismantle Nuclear Test Site (npr.org)
The Associated Press is reporting North Korea has announced plans to dismantle its nuclear test site between May 23 and 25. The dismantling will occur before President Trump is scheduled to meet with Kim Jong-un in Singapore on June 12. NPR reports: Reuters reports that Punggye-ri nuclear test site has been the location of all of North Korea's six known nuclear tests. At the site, there's a system of tunnels under the mountain Mount Mantap. Journalists from the United States, South Korea, China, Russia and Britain will be invited to watch a special ceremony in which all of the tunnels at the testing ground will be destroyed and observation and research facilities and guard units will be taken down. The North Korean government will provide journalists with a charter flight from Beijing to Wosnan, North Korea. From there, a train will take them to the test site in the northeast part of the country.
The AP also reports that at a ruling party meeting last month, North Korea announced the plan to close the nuclear testing ground, along with a commitment to suspend all tests of nuclear devices and ICBMs. At that same meeting, however, North Korea said it has been performing a kind of nuclear test classified as "subcritical." The "subcritical" experiments give scientists an opportunity to test weapons without causing an actual nuclear chain reaction and explosion.
The AP also reports that at a ruling party meeting last month, North Korea announced the plan to close the nuclear testing ground, along with a commitment to suspend all tests of nuclear devices and ICBMs. At that same meeting, however, North Korea said it has been performing a kind of nuclear test classified as "subcritical." The "subcritical" experiments give scientists an opportunity to test weapons without causing an actual nuclear chain reaction and explosion.
Wasn't their test site already "dismantled" by a massive tunnel collapse?
North Korea has announced plans to dismantle its nuclear test site between May 23 and 25.
Just wait. Western nations are going take credit for this development; yet the North Korean leadership has stated that there's no need to test anymore as they've "mastered" how to place nuclear war heads onto ballistic missiles.
This means there's no further need for "testing."
Punggye-ri may not even be usable at this point. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Punggye-ri+collapse
Awfully nice of them to offer to decommission it at this point :-p
This is a purely symbolic gesture to improve their optics.
--- Mercutio was right.
The South Korean president and Foreign Minister both said that Trump was the primary reason for NK's capitulation.
Lots of things are spin in this day and age, but sometimes there's an actual fact that gets out. You can still hate Trump and also appreciate that he might have ended the Korean War by shitposting on Twitter.
In fact, this very site has already had tests suspended indefinitely, likely because a mountain fell on it. From the article:
"The breakdown not only took off part of the mountain’s summit but also created a “chimney” that could allow fallout to rise from the blast centre into the air"
So, um good job Kim, taking a desperate attempt at mitigating a massive environmental disaster that could have blanketed half a hemisphere in radioactive fallout and trying to parlay it into a gesture of goodwill?
One potential problem with Korean negotiations is the optics, and the tendency of people to dislike being proven wrong, losing face, and being shown as disingenuous or hypocritical.
We could help the process along by giving Kim the widest exit-ramp from his situation. We don't have to be the sore, arrogant winners here.
So let's suppose that the existing test site was partially destroyed by the collapse, and still held significant development capability. We don't know that this is *not* true.
If the rest of the world were to take the positive view and assume the best, then this is Kim making a real effort to promote peace between the two nations.
A highly respectable gesture, and offered before negotiations.
Actually, that sounds 'kinda classy when you think about it.
Decades from now, I hope that some Chinese official lets us know in his memoirs just how close Kim Fat Ass came to getting a PRC bullet to the head.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Can you get a Nobel prize while serving concurrent life terms for treason in Leavenworth?
As it happens, you can get a Nobel peace prize while in prison. Most recently Liu Xiaobo was awarded the prize while jailed.
The Nobel committee apparently doesn't use "laws of other countries" as a criterion. Why would they?
Also as it happens, treason is specifically defined in the constitution. Nothing that Trump has been accused of comes under that definition.
Also also, I was reading about some of the trial transcripts from Mueller's indictments, and he'll be lucky if he doesn't get slapped by the court. The Manafort case in particular had the judge asking how Mueller's investigation can extend to actions that happened ten years before the election... and the prosecution being evasive and rude to the judge... causing the judge to demand prosecution submit the full, redacted indictment recommendation.
And in the Flynn case, the judge ordered prosecution to turn over any exculpatory evidence they have. This is unusual for a case where a guilty plea has been entered. The polite interpretation is that the judge feels Flynn might not have entered the plea because he was guilty, but because he couldn't afford a defense. The bad interpretation is that the judge might be looking into whether Flynn's plea was coerced. (Heard somewhere that prosecutors told Flynn that after they were done prosecuting him, they'd go after his wife and kids.)
And remember those 13 Russian nationals that were indicted? Turns out, it was 13 Russian nationals and four corporate entities. And one of the entities actually showed up in court to contest the charges. The indictments were widely viewed as a PR stunt, and that Mueller never expected anyone to contest them. He wasn't expecting to actually have to go to court, he's unprepared, and prosecutors tried to postpone the trial, saying "the plaintiffs were never served notice". Plaintiffs responded with "we're here voluntarily to answer charges and intend to enter a plea of "not guilty", let's have a trial!". Judge agreed, and now Mueller is scrambling to find evidence to support a bogus indictment.
Also, I heard that the IG report got postponed (last Wednesday) by "a couple of weeks" because they found new evidence about the Clinton E-mail investigation.
So overall, wait about 4 weeks or so and get back to me on whether Trump will be in jail, or whether we have a dozen high-level politicians indicted on corruption charges.
If anything got reported, it was speculation that was reported and maybe "simplified" circular reporting of that speculation. A test chamber collapsed, because there was a frigging thermonuclear explosion in there. This means this particular place is definitely ruined. You might dig in there again and detonate a nuke again and it would be a very bad idea. But there's a bit more room than that and there are *other* tunnels that are ready, one of which the West one was actually maintained so that a test can happen on a moment's notice.
I figure I should give sources rather than asking to take my worthless word, so here is reporting from seven months ago that warned against excessive speculation about "tired mountain syndrome" already
https://www.38north.org/2017/10/mtmantap101717/
Conclusion
Nuclear tests previously conducted at the US Nevada Test Site (as well as at the former Soviet nuclear test sites) show that test-induced seismic events (small post-test earthquakes), associated with tests having magnitudes of 5.0 or more, are not unusual. Moreover, such activity did not lead to site abandonment prior to the general test moratorium in 1992. Because Mt. Mantap has been the location for the last five of six of North Korea’s declared underground nuclear tests (via the North Portal) and has undergone widespread observable surface disturbances resulting from the most recent test, it is not surprising that there were a number of post-test earthquakes. This may have caused some concern both inside and outside North Korea about “Tired Mountain Syndrome.” For the time being, however, given the presence of additional test portals, we see no reason that the Punggye-ri Nuclear Test Site as a whole has or will be abandoned for future underground nuclear testing.
Two recent ones :
https://www.38north.org/2018/04/mtmantap043018/
https://www.38north.org/2018/04/punggye043018/
One has drawings and explanation to teach you what is a "chimney collapse", the other one has a terrain maps showing *three* adjacent testing areas, one of which is disturbed and two available for testing.
Well played, North Korea. Well played . . .
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
It is amusing that the South Korean leadership (who are directly talking with Kim) is giving Trump credit for ending the Korean War, and you are saying they don't know what they are talking about, yet somehow you do.
I believe asking nicely is what Obama did. Nice fellow, Obama.
I don't know how much Trump had to do with this.
Remember North Korea is smaller than Hewlett-Packard, they the US could easily destroy NK; we don't mostly because of politics. I know that if *I* were Kim Jong-un, and that wacky Trump dude were threatening to nuke my country, pointing out his big nuclear button, that would make me a bit more nervous than Obma's approach did. Trump seems like the kind of guy who just might decide, against the advice of his advisers, to go ahead and send a flight of three B-52s loaded up with 60 cruise missiles to go ahead and eliminate most of the major buildings in North Korea.
Keep in mind, North Korea has much less industry (gdp) than Birmingham, Alabama; Jacksonville; or Memphis.
It would be easy for Trump to just wake up one morning and decide "I'm tired of little Rocket Man. Let's blow up North Korea today and be done with it". It might not be a GOOD idea, but it would be easy for the US to do. Trump just might do something that Obama and Bush wouldn't do.
It may be that Trump asked nicely AFTER he grabbed them by the crotch. That's more Trump's MO, just asking nicely isn't really his thing - even when he should.
Without knowing, I can only listen to what the people who are in a better position to know have to say.
Xi Jinping's memoirs will probably be fairly uninteresting, for three reasons.
First, he inherited his leadership position. Actually, this whole generation of Chinese leaders are called "princelings" because their fathers were leaders. None of them earned their title through any sort of true merit.
Second, nothing that he's said or written has indicated any sort of really novel thinking. His famous "socialism with Chinese characteristics" that makes up the basis of his writings basically amounts to a form of hereditary, authoritatian oligarchy. Pretty blase, boring stuff that's been tried over and over again with little success.
Third, he's a dictator. Dictators are fairly one-dimensional, unimaginative types who have very little to add to the sum of humanity's achievements. They don't do their countries any good and very rarely leave any good legacy behind.
Once NK has a credible threat to deliver a nuke on target to the USA, they really don't have to "learn" anymore. It's not like they are going to first strike and take out the USA's retaliatory capability. All they need is a credible threat, which is what they've got now.
The most interesting account I saw was from, of all things, a Pakistani newspaper. It said that the test set off an earthquake. It caused a tunnel to collapse... with about 100 people in it. They may have been many of NK's nuclear scientists. And when they sent people in to try to rescue them, another collapse took out another hundred or so people. So the site is entirely unusable, and they may have lost many of their nuclear scientists in the process.
I guess they had enough physicists but not enough geologists.
The only thing this site is good for now is to give Kim Jong-un a diplomatic trump card.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2143171/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-and-may-be-why-kim-jong-un
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/958444/North-Korea-nuclear-missile-nuke-bomb-Punggye-ri-test-site
It's amazing how Trump hasn't gotten shit actually accomplished
Well, other than a tax cut. And ending the Obamacare mandate. And moving the embassy to Jerusalem. And starting to build a real wall. And cutting 2+ regulations for every new regulation. And scaling back on Federal overreach. And pulling out of the Paris Accord. And pulling out of the Iran giveaway deal. And bringing North Korea to the table. And re-opening trade talks with China. And withdrawing from the TPP. And ending "catch and release" with illegal aliens. And 100 other things.
But, yeah, other than that, what's he actually accomplished?
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
Decades from now, I hope that some Chinese official lets us know in his memoirs just how close Kim Fat Ass came to getting a PRC bullet to the head.
Rumor is that Kim had his uncle, Jang Song-thaek, executed in order to head off a Chinese sponsored palace coup. Jang was widely seen as "China's guy" within the NK government. China was upset about Jang's execution, but Kim sent them a very clear message that he was not going to be pushed around.
You make it sound like he's walked a red carpet from the cradle straight into power, and his biography doesn't read quite like that:
In 1963, when Xi was age 10, his father was purged from the Party and sent to work in a factory in Luoyang, Henan. In May 1966, Xi's secondary education was cut short by the Cultural Revolution, when all secondary classes were halted for students to criticise and fight their teachers. The Xi family home was ransacked by student militants and one of Xi's sisters, Xi Heping, was killed. Later, his own mother was forced to publicly denounce him as Xi was paraded before a crowd as an enemy of the revolution. Xi was aged 15 when his father was imprisoned in 1968 during the Cultural Revolution; Xi would not see his father again until 1972. Without the protection of his father, Xi was sent to work in Liangjiahe Village, Wen'anyi Town, Yanchuan County, Yan'an, Shaanxi, in 1969 in Mao Zedong's Down to the Countryside Movement. After a few months, unable to stand rural life, he ran away to Beijing. He was arrested during a crackdown on deserters from the countryside and sent to a work camp to dig ditches.
So... he might have been born a "princeling", but that did not guarantee him an easy ride into the Politburo. (Did you know that his first nine applications to join the CPC were rejected?)
Third, he's a dictator. Dictators are fairly one-dimensional, unimaginative types who have very little to add to the sum of humanity's achievements. They don't do their countries any good and very rarely leave any good legacy behind.
I think you're mischaracterising his desire for stability--which appears to be both genuine and well-founded--as "lack of imagination" and ignoring both his background and its historical context. The Chinese experience of the past 120 years or so has been nothing like the American one.
XI is a very smart guy, and he's got balls. Do not underestimate him.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
One of the driving forces of the Chinese government is to avoid another person like Mao. They were the ones who saw firsthand how bad the Cultural Revolution actually was. When they talk about stability, there is some reality behind it.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Wait for the trade war, it is brewing.
77,000 Chinese workers learned about this last week (ZTE, who attempted to purchase Qualcomm).
http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/0...
A 7 year ban on using US technologies, consider that. China will fund development of replacements, thus resolving the dependency (they probably already are/were).
And Europe is leaning against unilateral sanctions on Iran (this is as interesting as the Chinese stuff, Europe is a different beast):
https://www.reuters.com/articl...
Avocado's are an interesting view as well:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...
The world is being pushed towards protectionism, through tariffs and/or sanctions.
This is very dangerous territory.
BlameBillCosby.com
I love Fox News. Great source of news and commentary. Possibly the most fair and balanced source of news on the planet.
So was that as hard to read as it was to actually type it? Fair and balanced my ass. But I do like Tucker Carlson. I love that little head tilt he does when the gears in his head start to turn. Reminds me of my favorite beagle when I would magically pull a milk bone out of his ear.
"Whos a good boy? Who's a good boy?"
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
It's not that people don't think its a good thing. It is they just don't want to give Trump credit for it, or for anything. We should be clear, this was a major event and Trump actions are what lead directly too it.
If this does go down it will become a pivotal moment in history. It could literally reshape the political climate in the area. This could be the defining moment of Trump's legacy and progressives just hate to think that Trump isn't the incompetent baffoon they make him out to be.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
NK wants the US out of Korea completely (so does China and Russia). Now they are negotiating them out. NK wanted trade blockades ended. Trump has said he will end them. Trump has further promised that he will give US taxpayer's money to NK for de-nuking. Now there's a way forward for Iran and Cuba. If you don't have a nuke then the US hits you with sanctions. Get a nuke and the US will not only be nice to you, but actually give you money not to make any more and stop the sanctions shit.
No he hasn't. He has not done any of this as of yet. These options will be on the table I imagine in the future, as they should be.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
That would be a good guess. That is pretty much how it always goes. The leaders on the stage strut around and bluster, while quiet diplomacy happens in the background. The strutting roosters step in and take the credit.
But what makes TDS, Trump Derangement Syndrome is every one affected by it wants to blame everything on Trump. For instance there is a thread about flat earth convention some where. And some one just had to bring up a comprising with Trump. Trump has nothing to do with flat earth or any of that nonsense but people with TDS just can't help but bring it up.
Some people have TDS so bad they simply can not acknowledge the positive things that Trump has done. Nor can they acknowledge what is perfectly plain to every one else, even Trump critics not suffering from TDS, Trump is doing a good job as president and we are doing just fine.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
See, this is the reason that so many of your liberals keep getting into so much trouble. You don't read things all they way through, and you barely think about things that you do read. An even if you do read some thing you just twist it to mean what ever you want it too. That is a symptom of TDS.
I specifically said that was concerned about Trumps environmental policies. In fact I disagree with several of them. But here is the difference between people like me and liberals suffering from TDS. We are willing to see where the final plans start to go before we start frothing at the mouth over it.
Again, no safe legal immigrants are being affected. What is happening is some temporary worker visas are being changed or eliminated, some at the requests of the companies that sponsor them. Temporary worker are not immigrants. Some countries have had immigration temporary altered or suspended due to unstable conditions in their country. That a temporary condition.
DACA hasn't been cancelled. I believe Trump has given them 2 extra months for congress to act. DACA has to go. It was a good policy when implemented but now its time for proper and legal action to take place by congress. Until congress acts there is no path to citizenship for DACA recipients. Trump is just putting pressure on Congress to act.
According certain websites there is no difference between progressives and liberal. Looks like most issues between the two overlap. So I'm just going to continue to use the term interchangeably since most suffer from the same issues and lack of understanding that I point out.
Finally, you should stop railing so hard against anything and start paying attention to what is really happening. A pure blind hatred for anyone, even Trump, isn't good for you. Do more like I do. Praise Trump for the correct things he does. Discuss the ones that concern you. And speak out about things that you disagree on. But most important make sure you know what is actually happening and not what just some progressive blog is telling you. I recommend several news stories on a subject from several different sites. One conservative and one liberal. For me its Fox news and NPR, but I hardly call Fox news, news. More like a neutered Rush whats his name. I cant' listen to Rush, he makes my head hurt.
Good luck with the new outlook
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.