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North Korea Announces Plans To Dismantle Nuclear Test Site (npr.org)
The Associated Press is reporting North Korea has announced plans to dismantle its nuclear test site between May 23 and 25. The dismantling will occur before President Trump is scheduled to meet with Kim Jong-un in Singapore on June 12. NPR reports: Reuters reports that Punggye-ri nuclear test site has been the location of all of North Korea's six known nuclear tests. At the site, there's a system of tunnels under the mountain Mount Mantap. Journalists from the United States, South Korea, China, Russia and Britain will be invited to watch a special ceremony in which all of the tunnels at the testing ground will be destroyed and observation and research facilities and guard units will be taken down. The North Korean government will provide journalists with a charter flight from Beijing to Wosnan, North Korea. From there, a train will take them to the test site in the northeast part of the country.
The AP also reports that at a ruling party meeting last month, North Korea announced the plan to close the nuclear testing ground, along with a commitment to suspend all tests of nuclear devices and ICBMs. At that same meeting, however, North Korea said it has been performing a kind of nuclear test classified as "subcritical." The "subcritical" experiments give scientists an opportunity to test weapons without causing an actual nuclear chain reaction and explosion.
The AP also reports that at a ruling party meeting last month, North Korea announced the plan to close the nuclear testing ground, along with a commitment to suspend all tests of nuclear devices and ICBMs. At that same meeting, however, North Korea said it has been performing a kind of nuclear test classified as "subcritical." The "subcritical" experiments give scientists an opportunity to test weapons without causing an actual nuclear chain reaction and explosion.
Wasn't their test site already "dismantled" by a massive tunnel collapse?
North Korea has announced plans to dismantle its nuclear test site between May 23 and 25.
Just wait. Western nations are going take credit for this development; yet the North Korean leadership has stated that there's no need to test anymore as they've "mastered" how to place nuclear war heads onto ballistic missiles.
This means there's no further need for "testing."
In fact, this very site has already had tests suspended indefinitely, likely because a mountain fell on it. From the article:
"The breakdown not only took off part of the mountain’s summit but also created a “chimney” that could allow fallout to rise from the blast centre into the air"
So, um good job Kim, taking a desperate attempt at mitigating a massive environmental disaster that could have blanketed half a hemisphere in radioactive fallout and trying to parlay it into a gesture of goodwill?
Punggye-ri may not even be usable at this point. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Punggye-ri+collapse
Awfully nice of them to offer to decommission it at this point :-p
This is a purely symbolic gesture to improve their optics.
--- Mercutio was right.
They blew the top off the mountain and it began venting fission products over China.
China told them "yo, knock it the f*** off. or we're gonna have Serious Problems"
North Korea has announced plans to dismantle its nuclear test site between May 23 and 25.
Just wait. Western nations are going take credit for this development; yet the North Korean leadership has stated that there's no need to test anymore as they've "mastered" how to place nuclear war heads onto ballistic missiles.
This means there's no further need for "testing."
Even the US and Russians want to continue testing since there's always more to learn. If you go assuming every Trump thing is bullshit without checking the evidence you will end up being discredited. Instead you should look at b0s0z0ku's comment, which shows that you were right - this is bullshit propaganda - but for different reasons. The test site has collapsed and is unusable so dismantling it is the right thing. What's scary is that this was reported just a couple of weeks ago. The assumption seems to be that nobody remembers that long so we won't notice.
The South Korean president and Foreign Minister both said that Trump was the primary reason for NK's capitulation.
Lots of things are spin in this day and age, but sometimes there's an actual fact that gets out. You can still hate Trump and also appreciate that he might have ended the Korean War by shitposting on Twitter.
In fact, this very site has already had tests suspended indefinitely, likely because a mountain fell on it. From the article:
"The breakdown not only took off part of the mountain’s summit but also created a “chimney” that could allow fallout to rise from the blast centre into the air"
So, um good job Kim, taking a desperate attempt at mitigating a massive environmental disaster that could have blanketed half a hemisphere in radioactive fallout and trying to parlay it into a gesture of goodwill?
One potential problem with Korean negotiations is the optics, and the tendency of people to dislike being proven wrong, losing face, and being shown as disingenuous or hypocritical.
We could help the process along by giving Kim the widest exit-ramp from his situation. We don't have to be the sore, arrogant winners here.
So let's suppose that the existing test site was partially destroyed by the collapse, and still held significant development capability. We don't know that this is *not* true.
If the rest of the world were to take the positive view and assume the best, then this is Kim making a real effort to promote peace between the two nations.
A highly respectable gesture, and offered before negotiations.
Actually, that sounds 'kinda classy when you think about it.
Can you get a Nobel prize while serving concurrent life terms for treason in Leavenworth?
As it happens, you can get a Nobel peace prize while in prison. Most recently Liu Xiaobo was awarded the prize while jailed.
The Nobel committee apparently doesn't use "laws of other countries" as a criterion. Why would they?
Also as it happens, treason is specifically defined in the constitution. Nothing that Trump has been accused of comes under that definition.
Also also, I was reading about some of the trial transcripts from Mueller's indictments, and he'll be lucky if he doesn't get slapped by the court. The Manafort case in particular had the judge asking how Mueller's investigation can extend to actions that happened ten years before the election... and the prosecution being evasive and rude to the judge... causing the judge to demand prosecution submit the full, redacted indictment recommendation.
And in the Flynn case, the judge ordered prosecution to turn over any exculpatory evidence they have. This is unusual for a case where a guilty plea has been entered. The polite interpretation is that the judge feels Flynn might not have entered the plea because he was guilty, but because he couldn't afford a defense. The bad interpretation is that the judge might be looking into whether Flynn's plea was coerced. (Heard somewhere that prosecutors told Flynn that after they were done prosecuting him, they'd go after his wife and kids.)
And remember those 13 Russian nationals that were indicted? Turns out, it was 13 Russian nationals and four corporate entities. And one of the entities actually showed up in court to contest the charges. The indictments were widely viewed as a PR stunt, and that Mueller never expected anyone to contest them. He wasn't expecting to actually have to go to court, he's unprepared, and prosecutors tried to postpone the trial, saying "the plaintiffs were never served notice". Plaintiffs responded with "we're here voluntarily to answer charges and intend to enter a plea of "not guilty", let's have a trial!". Judge agreed, and now Mueller is scrambling to find evidence to support a bogus indictment.
Also, I heard that the IG report got postponed (last Wednesday) by "a couple of weeks" because they found new evidence about the Clinton E-mail investigation.
So overall, wait about 4 weeks or so and get back to me on whether Trump will be in jail, or whether we have a dozen high-level politicians indicted on corruption charges.
If anything got reported, it was speculation that was reported and maybe "simplified" circular reporting of that speculation. A test chamber collapsed, because there was a frigging thermonuclear explosion in there. This means this particular place is definitely ruined. You might dig in there again and detonate a nuke again and it would be a very bad idea. But there's a bit more room than that and there are *other* tunnels that are ready, one of which the West one was actually maintained so that a test can happen on a moment's notice.
I figure I should give sources rather than asking to take my worthless word, so here is reporting from seven months ago that warned against excessive speculation about "tired mountain syndrome" already
https://www.38north.org/2017/10/mtmantap101717/
Conclusion
Nuclear tests previously conducted at the US Nevada Test Site (as well as at the former Soviet nuclear test sites) show that test-induced seismic events (small post-test earthquakes), associated with tests having magnitudes of 5.0 or more, are not unusual. Moreover, such activity did not lead to site abandonment prior to the general test moratorium in 1992. Because Mt. Mantap has been the location for the last five of six of North Korea’s declared underground nuclear tests (via the North Portal) and has undergone widespread observable surface disturbances resulting from the most recent test, it is not surprising that there were a number of post-test earthquakes. This may have caused some concern both inside and outside North Korea about “Tired Mountain Syndrome.” For the time being, however, given the presence of additional test portals, we see no reason that the Punggye-ri Nuclear Test Site as a whole has or will be abandoned for future underground nuclear testing.
Two recent ones :
https://www.38north.org/2018/04/mtmantap043018/
https://www.38north.org/2018/04/punggye043018/
One has drawings and explanation to teach you what is a "chimney collapse", the other one has a terrain maps showing *three* adjacent testing areas, one of which is disturbed and two available for testing.
Well played, North Korea. Well played . . .
"I believe in Karma. That means I can do bad things to people all day long and I assume they deserve it." : Dogbert
... because they don't need no more steenkin' tests.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
.....trust that little fucker. At all.
It's amazing how Trump hasn't gotten shit actually accomplished but is already talking about awarding himself a Nobel prize, like they give those to traitors headed to prison within a year or so? Lol you're a moron. He's a traitor. He lied.
He obstructed justice so obviously and plainly that Republicanism had to completely retard, embarrass and blind itself to continue viably existing as a legitimate party in any form, until voters ACTUALLY drain their swamp in the midterms.
Meanwhile NK isn't giving up any of their nukes and has no intention of doing so, because playing Trump is just too easy so far. I bet the moron gives Kim a White House visit soon. He's that clueless. You are a product of it.
Many deals have been made with the hermit state. Enjoy your final days of freedom, Drumpftards. The Mueller convoy isn't slowing down, they're coming for you.
It is amusing that the South Korean leadership (who are directly talking with Kim) is giving Trump credit for ending the Korean War, and you are saying they don't know what they are talking about, yet somehow you do.
I believe asking nicely is what Obama did. Nice fellow, Obama.
I don't know how much Trump had to do with this.
Remember North Korea is smaller than Hewlett-Packard, they the US could easily destroy NK; we don't mostly because of politics. I know that if *I* were Kim Jong-un, and that wacky Trump dude were threatening to nuke my country, pointing out his big nuclear button, that would make me a bit more nervous than Obma's approach did. Trump seems like the kind of guy who just might decide, against the advice of his advisers, to go ahead and send a flight of three B-52s loaded up with 60 cruise missiles to go ahead and eliminate most of the major buildings in North Korea.
Keep in mind, North Korea has much less industry (gdp) than Birmingham, Alabama; Jacksonville; or Memphis.
It would be easy for Trump to just wake up one morning and decide "I'm tired of little Rocket Man. Let's blow up North Korea today and be done with it". It might not be a GOOD idea, but it would be easy for the US to do. Trump just might do something that Obama and Bush wouldn't do.
It may be that Trump asked nicely AFTER he grabbed them by the crotch. That's more Trump's MO, just asking nicely isn't really his thing - even when he should.
Without knowing, I can only listen to what the people who are in a better position to know have to say.
Never underestimate the effect of Fox News and the millions who listen to Rush, Hanity, and others on Facebook and AM radio.
Fox is the number one watched infonews station and it impacts people's views
http://saveie6.com/
Once NK has a credible threat to deliver a nuke on target to the USA, they really don't have to "learn" anymore. It's not like they are going to first strike and take out the USA's retaliatory capability. All they need is a credible threat, which is what they've got now.
So far, all we've got is NK is talking and they aren't currently testing. They've been dying to have direct talks with the USA for decades, and trump is giving them that, basically for free. Let's save the "NK capitulation" talk for when they actually capitulate.
The only thing this site is good for now is to give Kim Jong-un a diplomatic trump card.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy-defence/article/2143171/north-koreas-nuclear-test-site-has-collapsed-and-may-be-why-kim-jong-un
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/958444/North-Korea-nuclear-missile-nuke-bomb-Punggye-ri-test-site
If this opportunity for opening channels of communication and cool, calm, collected negotiation is here, why not take it? If managed well by all sides, many more good things can come of it? Who thinks that nuclear armed countries spending time together, talking about non-proliferation isn't a good thing?
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
If the North Korean leadership thinks that, then they know less about nuclear weapons than they think they do. A LOT less....
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
And the right keep thinking these posters aren't trolls from other countries.
They've never been good at parody, really.
is a Regan appointee and well know to be partisan. It's entirely possible he'll try to shut down the investigation himself. The Republican party has been stacking the courts for decades for just such an occasion.
I don't think Trump and Co will ever be found guilty of treason in the legal sense, but any fool following the money can see they've already sold us out more times than can be counted. Colloquially his administration guilty at least 5 times over. Note that I said "his administration". Trump's a con man and a patsy. He's not smart enough to sell us out the Russians. The people around him OTOH...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Off topic a bit, I'm just curious where you're from. We've talked on here quite bit over the years. Anyway, to respond to your questions and comments:
I said: ...
>> that wacky Trump dude were threatening to nuke my country, pointing out his big nuclear button, that would make me a bit more nervous than Obama's approach did. Trump seems like the kind of guy who just might decide, against the advice of his advisers, to go ahead and send a flight of three B-52s
>> It might not be a good idea
You asked: ...
> why you proclaim such barbaric actions. Are you a barbarian?
> Sorry, mad pigs like you, who demand bombing another country back into the stone age
Where I'm from, if someone says "I'd be nervous that a wacky person might", that's not demanding that they do it. That's saying it's a wacky (crazy) thing to do, and the thought ought to make people nervous (worried). "Not a good idea" means one should NOT do it.
I said:
>> it would be easy for the US
You asked:
>> Why? NK is on another continent. What the fuck does the US care
When hammering nails, it's easy to hit your thumb with the hammer. Why? What the fuck would you want to do that for?
I don't post AC and I'm very open with me being from and in Sweden.
is that the site already collapsed and NK is building a NEW test site.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
this just makes me wonder where they moved it to now.
change the theme of your cocksucking fawning
Looks to me that you're the one who's pretty intense on the whole cocksucking/gay stuff. Maybe you have issues to deal with before you can get involed in serious discussions.
lucm, indeed.
What do numbers have to do with it? Much of China's vast army is relatively poorly armed. Taking on China in a land war would be very hard but not impossible for the US, particularly if the aims were relatively limited. China can threaten the US with nukes, but then again the US arsenal certainly outweighs China's. The US Navy and Airforce outgun China considerably, so numbers of soldiers doesn't seem an appropriate metric here.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
If Obamacare would have ended a 60 year war by shitposting on Twitter he would have been given another Nobel peace prize and weâ(TM)d never hear the end of how much of a genius he was.
Do you have ESP?
No idea how obama turned into Obamacare.
Do you have ESP?
Personally I think the primary reason is more likely to be the accident they had at their nuclear test site last September. They are closing it down now, because it isn't recoverable, and quite possibly they've already lost a lot of troops trying, to tunnel collapses and radiation poisoning. They have been defeated by their own inadequacies, and finally facing up to that.
Where was the parent giving Trump credit for anything? Sounds like the amusing fool is you.
Lol. He is capitulating because his nuclear mountain collapsed. Trump is only taking credit for it. South Korea is "playing" sycophant to the Narcissist in Chief in the hope of getting better conditions for themselves after the meeting in Singapore.
Don't forget that Kim took his first trip to China by train a few months ago. Do you know what was said there? Maybe "Reconcile with the world you petulant child, before we turn you into a province or starve your people to death."
But why is Xi leaning on Kim? Is it because a madman in the White House has brought the issue to a head by threatening Kim into doing stupid things which finally annoyed China enough to lean on him.
Capitulation? Where are you getting that from?
It's a big win for Kim and a huge win for China.
NK has wanted direct talks with the US for 60 years. Now they have them.
NK wants the US out of Korea completely (so does China and Russia). Now they are negotiating them out.
NK wanted trade blockades ended. Trump has said he will end them.
Trump has further promised that he will give US taxpayer's money to NK for de-nuking. Now there's a way forward for Iran and Cuba. If you don't have a nuke then the US hits you with sanctions. Get a nuke and the US will not only be nice to you, but actually give you money not to make any more and stop the sanctions shit.
Amazing!
China loves this as there is every chance that Trump can claim that he has "won the war" and is now going to bring the troops home.
At that moment the Sea of Japan becomes a Chinese lake and Taiwan just gives up.
In one of the most amusing chapters of modern history the US will then turn to it's close friend Vietnam to contain the spread of Chinese hegemony.
All this will be claimed as a series of wonderful victories by Trumpy. Way to go!
Wait for the trade war, it is brewing.
77,000 Chinese workers learned about this last week (ZTE, who attempted to purchase Qualcomm).
http://money.cnn.com/2018/05/0...
A 7 year ban on using US technologies, consider that. China will fund development of replacements, thus resolving the dependency (they probably already are/were).
And Europe is leaning against unilateral sanctions on Iran (this is as interesting as the Chinese stuff, Europe is a different beast):
https://www.reuters.com/articl...
Avocado's are an interesting view as well:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...
The world is being pushed towards protectionism, through tariffs and/or sanctions.
This is very dangerous territory.
BlameBillCosby.com
It is almost like they know exactly what to say to keep Trump happy. Macron did the same over his last visit to the US.
This is all Xi Jinping's doing. Hear MAGAers asking for a nobel prize for Trump over, apparently, forcing NK to capitulate over tweets is incredible.
My retirement plan depended on dying in a fiery nuclear holocaust. I guess I should have been putting money in my 401K
I love Fox News. Great source of news and commentary. Possibly the most fair and balanced source of news on the planet.
So was that as hard to read as it was to actually type it? Fair and balanced my ass. But I do like Tucker Carlson. I love that little head tilt he does when the gears in his head start to turn. Reminds me of my favorite beagle when I would magically pull a milk bone out of his ear.
"Whos a good boy? Who's a good boy?"
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
It's not that people don't think its a good thing. It is they just don't want to give Trump credit for it, or for anything. We should be clear, this was a major event and Trump actions are what lead directly too it.
If this does go down it will become a pivotal moment in history. It could literally reshape the political climate in the area. This could be the defining moment of Trump's legacy and progressives just hate to think that Trump isn't the incompetent baffoon they make him out to be.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
NK wants the US out of Korea completely (so does China and Russia). Now they are negotiating them out. NK wanted trade blockades ended. Trump has said he will end them. Trump has further promised that he will give US taxpayer's money to NK for de-nuking. Now there's a way forward for Iran and Cuba. If you don't have a nuke then the US hits you with sanctions. Get a nuke and the US will not only be nice to you, but actually give you money not to make any more and stop the sanctions shit.
No he hasn't. He has not done any of this as of yet. These options will be on the table I imagine in the future, as they should be.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
You make it sound like Trump has some kind of carefully-crafted strategy for this and other foreign and domestic efforts. That's not what I'm seeing. Mostly I see a man who just breaks stuff to see what happens.
Look at Trump's tweets about NK leading up to a few months ago, and tell me with a straight face that he was planning to be Mr. Nice Guy all along. This opportunity just landed in his lap, because NK is on the ropes due to so many other things that have precious little to do with him. Don't get me wrong, I wish him luck. But let's not kid ourselves into thinking he deserves to be at the front of this parade.
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
My guess is that diplomacy between North Korea, South Korea, China, the USA, and a few others had already been quietly ongoing for months, if not years. More than likely without the president's knowledge. Not picking on the stable genius in the White House at the moment. This is pretty much how international diplomacy mostly works; long, slow, quiet, and boring and you never hear about it until right near the end when some politician, by sheer serendipity, takes the credit for it. Yes, you can become a Nobel Peace Prize winner just by not being an asshole for one critical moment and the rest has all been done for you long in advance.
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.
That would be a good guess. That is pretty much how it always goes. The leaders on the stage strut around and bluster, while quiet diplomacy happens in the background. The strutting roosters step in and take the credit.
But what makes TDS, Trump Derangement Syndrome is every one affected by it wants to blame everything on Trump. For instance there is a thread about flat earth convention some where. And some one just had to bring up a comprising with Trump. Trump has nothing to do with flat earth or any of that nonsense but people with TDS just can't help but bring it up.
Some people have TDS so bad they simply can not acknowledge the positive things that Trump has done. Nor can they acknowledge what is perfectly plain to every one else, even Trump critics not suffering from TDS, Trump is doing a good job as president and we are doing just fine.
I read at +2. If your post doesn't reach that level I will not see or respond to it.
No, Trump is, without a doubt, the least competent POTUS in history.
Debate is a form of harassment. Do not question my truth.