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Japan Moves To Ease Aging Drivers Out of Their Cars (nytimes.com)
As Japan's population ages, so do its drivers. Japan has the oldest population in the world, with nearly 28 percent of its residents above 65 years old. One in seven people are over 75. In the United States, by comparison, that figure is closer to one in 16. From a report: According to data compiled by Japan's national police agency, drivers between 16 and 24 are more likely to cause traffic accidents than any other age group. But last year, drivers over 75 caused twice as many fatal accidents per 100,000 drivers as those under that age. Among drivers over 80 years old, the rate was three times as high as for drivers under that age. The news media regularly features grisly reports of deaths caused by older drivers, some of whom are later discovered to have Alzheimer's disease.
Since 2009, all drivers 75 and older must submit to a test of their cognitive functioning when they renew their licenses [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled], typically once every three years. Under a new traffic law that took effect in March 2017, those who score poorly are sent to a doctor for examination, and if they are found to have dementia, the police can revoke their licenses. More than 33,000 drivers who took the cognitive test last year showed what the police deemed to be signs of cognitive impairment and were ordered to see a doctor. The police revoked just over 1,350 licenses after doctors diagnosed dementia.
Since 2009, all drivers 75 and older must submit to a test of their cognitive functioning when they renew their licenses [Editor's note: the link may be paywalled], typically once every three years. Under a new traffic law that took effect in March 2017, those who score poorly are sent to a doctor for examination, and if they are found to have dementia, the police can revoke their licenses. More than 33,000 drivers who took the cognitive test last year showed what the police deemed to be signs of cognitive impairment and were ordered to see a doctor. The police revoked just over 1,350 licenses after doctors diagnosed dementia.
I'm not sure how revoking a dementia patient's license is going to help, it's not like they're going to know they aren't supposed to drive.
I'll ease my goddamn foot up your ass before you get me out of my car. You can have my steering wheel when you wrest it from my cold dead hands.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Japan Moves To Ease Aging Drivers Out of Their Cars
They'll do it better than in Georgia ...
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
"But last year, drivers over 75 caused twice as many fatal accidents per 100,000 drivers as those under that age. Among drivers over 80 years old, the rate was three times as high as for drivers under that age."
Yes, that does make some sense. But are we talking about 200000 drivers, 2000, or 2? And "twice as many" is how many, exactly? Also, what percentage of people in that age bracket still drive?
Telling us the rate "per 100000 drivers" without context doesn't actually explain how large or small the problem is. It just tells us that any particular older driver is more likely to cause a crash than any particular younger driver.
#DeleteChrome
Many US states have stepped up testing and medical requirements for people over 75.The older you get, the more frequently you must take a driving test.
The Japanese have just put a more specific requirement on it.
There is no where to park in Japan. So they are replacing drivers with robots so the cars can just keep driving around looking for a parking space.
Unlike the US, most of Japan actually has a functional public transport system. Even absent self-driving cars, this is much less of a burden in Japan than it would be in the US.
More than 33000 drivers were sent to be examined, but of those only "just over" 1350 were found to be sufficiently impaired to have their license revoked. That means that 96% of the time, the police are identifying the wrong people. It would be interesting to know the rate of false negatives: How many impaired drivers are not being flagged in encounters with the police?
Give them free mass transit
Absent safe and affordable self-driving cars that can handle senile users (rambling, contradictions, references to old landmarks, etc.), we have to find a way to transition old drivers in every country.
My Dad was stubbornly holding on to driving despite failing vision and increased confusion, the police stopped him driving down the highway the wrong way. Nothing happened, but the next day, they suspended his license.
There should be a better way than waiting for "driving in the wrong lane", for example.
Mostly random stuff.
My Japense father in law had tunnel vision and still got his license renewed. And we literaly see Japanse elderly people have caused accidents every month. Usually they just hit a wall by putting the car mistakenly in reverse. The Japanese government should make it compulsory for elderly people to have car with driving assistance like anti-collision prevention. Those features are currently available for any small car at almost no extra charge.
I'm not sure how revoking a dementia patient's license is going to help, it's not like they're going to know they aren't supposed to drive.
I've known a few people who lost their license due to dementia. None were so far gone that they didn't understand and most got rid of their cars.
Here in BC, you start having to be retested at 70 or so depending when the license expires IIRC.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
So they are rounding up the elderly and forcing them to do a battery of tests. The first test is apparently very easy to fail and has a HUGE false positive rate (96%).
I get what they want to do here, but that's a bullshit way to do it. Imagine if 96% of people who took a breathalyser test had a "drunk" reading, but it turns out when they get to the station and do the real test they're more sober than Bill W?
Improve the first test to get the false positive rate below at least 50%, preferably under 10%.
Japan has already discounted that technology.
It's only for crazy Americans.
Apparently all the old drivers in America must live in my suburb... :/ (Niles IL, it's definitely in contention, seriously)
I wonder why Americans aren't passing the cognitive tests as much. Hmmm
Age discrimination of young and old over "safety" related arguments is repulsive. People were once free to travel anywhere they liked without the permission of governments. The idea that safety is so much more important than the population's right to travel is disgusting. And don't go tell me how its a privileged and not a right. It's been understood that people have an inalienable right to travel and the courts reckless disregard for that right has resulted in all sorts of discriminations and tragedies that mostly have no significant impact on safety- but it's an irrelevant argument to me because no amount of improved "safety" can justify the restriction on peoples rights to live outside of a repressive regime.
While the famous Ben Franklin's quote below may be understood out of context to mean something that was not intended it is that interpretation that sums up nicely what I believe:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
The young are discriminated against and hindered from gaining the skills needed to drive safely and this results in less experienced older drivers. By increasing the age you end up in a never-ending-cycle and argument for increasing the driving age. You can continue this up to and past age 28 because of "brain development". It's ridiculous when you can't hire a kid out of college because the state demands a year of experience with a parent or other adult before they can drive. This has literally prevented me from hiring numerous young persons out of college! At least until I moved my business out of an insane state with this requirement.
Then there are laws in other states where they suspend peoples drivers licenses for "crimes" or debts that have nothing to do with safety and safety isn't even why we have drivers licenses. It was bigotry back in the early 1900s against motor vehicle owners and up until the late 1960s there were even states that had no testing of drivers either oral or road to get a drivers license.
One example of a "crime" that is punished via the restriction of ones driving "privileged" is a NY law that applies to juveniles only (or did) that says if you are caught committing a graffiti crime that you will be prevented from getting a drivers license for a number of years after you otherwise would be able to get one. This doesn't apply to an adult who commits the very same crime! In theory we're suppose to be more lenient with minors and yet frequently the opposite is true. It's a more serious crime or only a crime in many states for a young person to smoke weed- but it's either legal or merely a violation for an adult to do the same thing!
Another group that is discriminated against via drivers licenses suspensions that has nothing to do with safety are people indebted to the state for child support. You might think "Good." because those people are costing us money. The problem with this thinking is a lot of these people didn't even know they had a child because mothers have denied that these kids are the father of the father. When it finally comes out that a father is in fact the father and should have been paying child support the debts to the state (to reimburse the state for welfare basically) have there drivers licenses suspended. Not everybody has 20 or 30 thousand dollars to cover the costs the moment it is decided in court that they are the father and in debt to the state. It's entirely unreasonable for a person to be made to pay on the day of the court ruling that kind of money to the state else face a suspended drivers license. And it doesn't even make sense because you are not hindering that father from employment that would enable him to repay that debt. It's another form of debtors prison that even the British understood hundreds of years ago was a bad idea- and so it was abolished- but not here in the good ol USA.
Then there are laws that discriminate against old people rather than incapable drivers. There are lots of people that are not old t
Driving, and shitposting, is for old people.
Nothing more dangerous and unpredictable than an old, demented asian woman piloting a ton of plastic and fuel.
Can't be any worse than Sulu piloting the Enterprise.
There was a big scandal some time ago when a family did not register a death of the old man to continue collecting the pension checks. And some investigation found it was not all that isolated. So of the people who are still alive according to pension records, how many are really alive?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
> No.
Liberty of expression is one thing.
Liberty to cause suffering is totally different.
As long as absolute freedom of expression is guaranteed, forget all hope to curb bullying.
It's a balance: what makes one person rights important enough to cancel those of others?
It's amazing you wrote that novel but you weren't confident enough to associate it with your name by logging in. I guess that says it all.
Japan has a issue with too many old people and not enough young people. You cant just kill the elderly but you can definitely give them multi ton steel boxes to kill themselves with. Additionally by putting the young in cities and the elderly in the countryside you make sure the elderly dont take young people with them when they off themselves.
Japan can do better. They should adopt the second amendment right to own guns for people over 65. People who have never used a gun in their life and are now armed will have lots of accidents. Encourage gun ownership in rural areas by spreading FUD in the media about how the elderly need to protect themselves from "crime"
Soon you will have a proper ratio of old to young and the social security net will be solvent.
Too Darwinistic for you?
If you're "suffering" from someone else's expression - please hurry up and die from it. Thanks.
Sincerely,
Future Generations
Age discrimination of young and old over "safety" related arguments is repulsive. People were once free to travel anywhere they liked without the permission of governments. The idea that safety is so much more important than the population's right to travel is disgusting. And don't go tell me how its a privileged and not a right. It's been understood that people have an inalienable right to travel and the courts reckless disregard for that right has resulted in all sorts of discriminations and tragedies that mostly have no significant impact on safety- but it's an irrelevant argument to me because no amount of improved "safety" can justify the restriction on peoples rights to live outside of a repressive regime.
While the famous Ben Franklin's quote below may be understood out of context to mean something that was not intended it is that interpretation that sums up nicely what I believe:
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
The young are discriminated against and hindered from gaining the skills needed to drive safely and this results in less experienced older drivers. By increasing the age you end up in a never-ending-cycle and argument for increasing the driving age. You can continue this up to and past age 28 because of "brain development". It's ridiculous when you can't hire a kid out of college because the state demands a year of experience with a parent or other adult before they can drive. This has literally prevented me from hiring numerous young persons out of college! At least until I moved my business out of an insane state with this requirement.
Then there are laws in other states where they suspend peoples drivers licenses for "crimes" or debts that have nothing to do with safety and safety isn't even why we have drivers licenses. It was bigotry back in the early 1900s against motor vehicle owners and up until the late 1960s there were even states that had no testing of drivers either oral or road to get a drivers license.
One example of a "crime" that is punished via the restriction of ones driving "privileged" is a NY law that applies to juveniles only (or did) that says if you are caught committing a graffiti crime that you will be prevented from getting a drivers license for a number of years after you otherwise would be able to get one. This doesn't apply to an adult who commits the very same crime! In theory we're suppose to be more lenient with minors and yet frequently the opposite is true. It's a more serious crime or only a crime in many states for a young person to smoke weed- but it's either legal or merely a violation for an adult to do the same thing!
Another group that is discriminated against via drivers licenses suspensions that has nothing to do with safety are people indebted to the state for child support. You might think "Good." because those people are costing us money. The problem with this thinking is a lot of these people didn't even know they had a child because mothers have denied that these kids are the father of the father. When it finally comes out that a father is in fact the father and should have been paying child support the debts to the state (to reimburse the state for welfare basically) have there drivers licenses suspended. Not everybody has 20 or 30 thousand dollars to cover the costs the moment it is decided in court that they are the father and in debt to the state. It's entirely unreasonable for a person to be made to pay on the day of the court ruling that kind of money to the state else face a suspended drivers license. And it doesn't even make sense because you are not hindering that father from employment that would enable him to repay that debt. It's another form of debtors prison that even the British understood hundreds of years ago was a bad idea- and so it was abolished- but not here in the good ol USA.
Then there are laws that discriminate against old people rather than incapable drivers. There are lots of peo
Wanna buy a shirt?
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I'm in Canada. Doctors are required by law to report any medical condition that may affect one's ability to operate a motor vehicle, and such a report triggers an immediate suspension of your driving license. (Driving while Suspended carries the same penalties as Impaired Driving).
In my case, at age 57, due to a mix of medication my doctor prescribed me, I began experiencing dizzy spells. Combined with low blood pressure (which is actually good, as you age, but when I was a young adult I would get a dizzy spell for about 1~3 seconds if I stood up quickly from a seating position) I fell and hit my head while in the doctor's office, and he sent the report (and paid for a taxi home for me).
Now my Driver's License is pretty much exactly like how all Pilot's Licenses work ... it's dependent on a medical. I take the medical every year (the licensing agency pays the fee to the doctor) and if I pass (I always do) then I can renew my Driver's for a year. This will never go away; I will be doing this for the rest of my life.
Note that the medical also includes a vision test, which I also always pass (20:20 & 15:20), but should I fail then there would be a requirement to get another medical from an optometrist, and I know many drivers who cannot see as well as I can and don't wear corrective lenses. But they don't need a medical to drive.
There should be a better way than waiting for "driving in the wrong lane", for example.
There is but we're too much of a bunch of self indulgent asshats to do it. The answer is EVERYONE should have to retest routinely (say every 3-5 years) and the test should actually be challenging to pass in a sense similar to a pilot's license. (doens't have to be as hard as a pilots license but it should be a lot harder than it is and include cognitive function testing and a physical exam) Do something stupid like drive drunk and your license gets revoked on the first offense because you have clearly demonstrated you cannot handle the responsibility. If you are getting older and lose the ability to cognitively react fast enough and properly while driving, that should result in your license being suspended. I don't see why that should even be controversial. Simple fact is that you become dangerous when that happens. I expect/hope I live long enough it happens to me someday.
Unfortunately we've designed far too much of our infrastructure around a presumed ability and "right" to drive a car so the other half of this is that we would have to actually invest in decent public transit for those who are unable to pass the test. I don't actually see this as a bad thing. A good public transit system is something worthwhile. If we need to have subsidized access to taxis (or Uber/Lyft) for those unable to drive themselves then let's do that or something similar. Probably some people to assist the elderly and disabled who need a little extra help getting around. Heaven forbid we actually act to help those who need a little extra assistance.
A more moderate version would be that cars give people mobility and that is worth a lot. Therefore the threshold for allowing people to drive should be as low as possible and a modest increase in death toll should be allowed
That's frankly an idiotic suggestion. If we want mobility it doesn't have to come in the form of a car. Heaven forbid we have a public transit system that doesn't suck. Stop thinking cars are the only possibility and the answers become obvious.
EVERYONE should have to take driving tests that are harder than the current ones and there should be a cognitive function test to go with them. If you cannot physically/mentally react fast enough to safely operate a motor vehicle then you should not have a license.
It's always tempting to put the bar as high as possible because it's good for the traffic deaths, but you have to balance it.
No you really do not have to balance it. You simply have to recognize that we've designed our infrastructure too heavily on the false presumption that anyone above the age of 16 is physically and mentally capable of driving a car. This is obviously and manifestly not true and therefore is stupid policy. The answer is to build our transport system to rely less on the presumption that everyone can drive. Public transit, subsidized taxi service, housing relocation assistance, etc. If this requires people to give up their car fetish and self indulgent assumption of a "right" to drive then so much the better.
That'll work great in the rural towns where there is no public transport and the elderly population exceeds 50%
Then they have a choice to either move or work to install alternatives to cars. Instead of paying for cars we could pool together to have a subsidized taxi service for cases like these. The assumption that we should indulge them in the unsafe operation of a motor vehicle because the current public transit options suck is idiotic.
I don't understand this whining that we can't do anything that would change the status quo.
Ya, like phobos512 is your real name, shitbrain.
" those who score poorly are sent to a doctor for examination, and if they are found to have dementia, "
If they have dementia, they will forget that appointment anyway.
When you pry the hot twisted steering wheel wreckage of a 2017 Dodge 700 HP Charger outa my cold Parkinson-fibrulating paws ... yeah then I'll stop running-down warmist snowflake punks and take the bus.
Make everyone take this test with their license renewal! Yes, cognitive ability decreases with age but that doesnt mean that everyone who is able to get a license is cognitively able or that it doesnt change through out individuals lives. I think that we should have road tests with every license renewal, It creates more jobs and updates everyone on the rules of the road (yes they do change!). it also has the added benefit of reinforcing good driving habits by forcing people to pay attention to their driving so that they can pass the next test.
Id even go further to suggest that car control classes be mandatory! with the number of deaths on the road every year these measures will reduce that number. Wont someone think of the kids!(note: this snark comment is made to illustrate that no one actually cares about the kids but it is used as a dog whistle to promote ones personal philosophies given that cars kill more people annually than a lot of other sources that are being combated because of the "kids")
EVERYONE should have to take driving tests that are harder than the current ones and there should be a cognitive function test to go with them. If you cannot physically/mentally react fast enough to safely operate a motor vehicle then you should not have a license.
While harder initial tests would be nice, I would like everyone to be retested regularly. Perhaps every time you renewal your driver's license (5 years?), or at least every-other time (10 years). Maybe when you hit a decade-of-age milestone (30, 40, 50, 60)?
In Japan. When?
Given their love of robots, I'd say that this is a no-brainer.
Have gnu, will travel.
If we actually prioritized safety over practicality and freedom, then driving would be handled by professionals.
Nonsense. Stop making perfect the enemy of good. A large majority of the people can handle driving a car with reasonable safety. But doing so requires a certain standard of physical and mental ability to do it safely. One of the problems of growing older is that many people experience mental decline and slowing of reaction times. Other people for reasons beyond their control (genetics, disease, accidents, etc) never achieve this level of function. People in this category should not be driving under any circumstances because they are a hazard to themselves and those around them. Right now we have frankly set the bar too low. It's too easy to get a drivers license and we do not retest at reasonable intervals. I've seen far too many people who are able to retain their driver's license long beyond when they should.
But we don't prioritize safety over practicality and freedom, because that would be idiotic.
Idiotic is letting someone who is CLEARLY dangerous and incapable of safe operation drive. Drunk, senile, etc. If we let people who are clearly unable to operate a motor vehicle with a reasonable standard of performance then we are idiots.
Hey, I'm an aging driver. If any Japanese come over here to Minnesota to make me get out of my car, I shan't be pleased! That's my wife's job! :-)
You probably don't know any women, as this is not a common experience. It sounds like you are living in a fantasy world, or do you live in Saudi Arabia?
Only I can judge you.
TL;DR -offtopic rant, possibly from a libertarian, I didn't read enough of the overlong post to conclude that with any degree of confidence. Recommendation? would not bother with.
Only I can judge you.
There's a comment worthy of the modern /.er. Say something stupid immediately after acknowledging you can't be bothered to read.
I believe in privacy and anonymity and I will NEVER log in out of principle. I should not have to identify myself in order to speak. That's fucked up and disturbing. Fuck log ins. I have no issue saying anything I said publicly and do so regularly on national syndicated radio (I co host more than one show, but one particular show has a significant audience airing on hundreds of radio stations around the US and multiple continents on satellite and online):
https://www.freetalklive.com/
> If you're "suffering" from someone else's expression - please hurry up and die from it.
That is certainly one option. Thanks for the suggestion.
But forgive me if I decide suffering is not a good perspective in life -- even if it's psychological harm.
So instead of me suiciding, forgive me if I decide to teach you (physically, that is) that you cannot have all that freedom you'd want to do evil things.
It's easy to find it funny to harm other people's dignity. Not so much when said people decide to "discuss" your attitude with you. If you think that is moralist, well, FU and adjust your attitude. If you're intent on causing harm, any complaint of being harmed in your rights will not be heard.
I'm all for freedom, don't misunderstand me. But there's very few things, if any, on this world that would be nice in limitless quantities IMHO. There has to be balance. Man's Got to Know his Limitations (Clint Eastwood as Dirty Harry).