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Amazon Is Banning People For Making Too Many Returns (businessinsider.com)

Posted by ryuzaki0 on from the for-the-record dept.

Amazon -- which for years has maintained the standard for free returns online -- might now ban users for making too many returns. From a report:The Wall Street Journal on Tuesday documented complaints that the e-commerce giant had barred customers who had returned items. Amazon apparently failed to alert the customers that they had returned too many items before the bans. The Journal spoke with two people and cited dozens more online who said they had been barred from Amazon, as well as others who received emails from the company after returning some items. The two people who spoke with The Journal seem to be part of a wave of hundreds of people who were barred from Amazon in late March and early April, as previously reported by Business Insider.

40 of 272 comments (clear)

  1. Learn from this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Use new lines, not carriage returns!

  2. Good by iamhassi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've read of some people buying and returning the same item every month so they never had to actually pay for it since Amazon kept giving them a full refund.

    --
    my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    1. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Unless you buy something that is legitimately defective, there is no reason to return it. I'm pretty old and I can count the number of times I've returned something on one hand, and have fingers left over.

    2. Re:Good by Thelasko · · Score: 3, Funny

      I've read of some people buying and returning the same item every month so they never had to actually pay for it since Amazon kept giving them a full refund.

      It's on the internet, so it has to be true!

      --
      One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
    3. Re:Good by gravewax · · Score: 2

      yeah me too, but then I don't buy clothes and shoes over the internet. I imagine people that do would absolutely need to do a lot of returns.

    4. Re:Good by Ogive17 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But would it surprise you?

      There's always a few assholes who ruin a good thing for the rest of us.

      --
      "Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
    5. Re:Good by Green+Mountain+Bot · · Score: 2

      I agree to a certain extent, but there are times when you order something thinking it's going to be what you need, but it turns out to not do what you need it to do, even if it isn't defective. For example, a guitarist might order a certain overdrive pedal based on rave reviews, but when it shows up, it doesn't produce the sound that particular guitarist wants to get.

    6. Re:Good by war4peace · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Of course there is.
      I ordered a blanket online, for my wife, the pictures and description both stated that it's brown with white spots. Beagle-style colors, to be more precise.
      What we received though was a purplish+off-white blanket, similar in design but with different colors.

      Now, does this qualify as defective? It worked perfectly, did what a blanket should do, but the colors were wrong.

      If you include things such as lower quality materials, improper size (for clothes), wrong colors, then I apologize. However I don't consider these as "defects", but still worthy of returns.

      With that being said, yes I agree there are abusers and they need to be swiftly banned.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    7. Re: Good by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because if you were buying it in a guitar shop, they would never have refused you to try the pedal first, and a large reason why Amazon is so big is that they want to give the experience of a real store. Ergo, Amazon needs to decide whether they want to continue their success by going further than any other internet sales company or not.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    8. Re:Good by YukariHirai · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it's not what was advertised/described, that's effectively defective from a consumer viewpoint: either way you're not getting what you think you're getting. Australian consumer law actually codifies this.

    9. Re:Good by sexconker · · Score: 3, Funny

      The DVD issues were a result of them attempting to ship the discs through an unstable wormhole.

    10. Re:Good by F.Ultra · · Score: 2

      How would that even work, Amazon sure as hell can track who made the first return?

    11. Re:Good by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 2

      A picture and minimal description is often insufficient to make a purchasing decision. I have returned a few items where I bought the wrong thing, or where it simply didn't fit. But, I generally keep the things that I knew going in were likely to be crap, but I needed a retail therapy fix or something.

      "failing to meet needs" is a reasonable justification for returns. If you return 2x what you keep though, you might expect some repercussions.

    12. Re: Good by omnichad · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Freeloading? Even if you're a Prime member and they advertise "Free Returns" in bold print?

    13. Re:Good by nasch · · Score: 2

      According to Amazon it is a legitimate reason. You can return something because you just didn't like the way it looks when you saw it in person. Heck "no longer needed" is one of the options for why you're returning something. You may have to pay return freight, but they'll take it back.

    14. Re: Good by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      This is actually enshrined in EU law. When buying things at a distance (mail order, internet) you have no opportunity to inspect the goods before they arrive. Thus you can return them for any reason within a couple of weeks of receipt.

      No need to include the original packaging either, which is handy because it often requires destroying to get the product out anyway.

      If the item isn't defective or different to the description you have to pay return postage, otherwise the seller picks up the tab.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    15. Re: Good by lsllll · · Score: 2

      Everything *within reason*. Returning every other item that you buy in a short amount of time is not within reason. It's like when you go to a buffet that says "All you can eat". It doesn't mean you get to empty all of the steam trays of shrimp. Or how "free refills" doesn't mean you get to come in every day and sit for hours having drink after drink.

      Also, Amazon Prime doesn't apply to third party sellers, who often get shafted by buyers who do that.

      Dude, what the fuck are you talking about? When the buffet says "All you can eat", I can certainly empty all of the steam trays of shrimp. If they serve caviar, I can go and eat all the caviar they put out there, and then ask for some more after I've finished the container. It's ALL YOU CAN EAT. What part of that don't you get?

      --
      Is that a roll of dimes in your pocket or are you happy to see me?
    16. Re:Good by war4peace · · Score: 3, Informative

      BUT if a retailer wants to advertise that they take no returns

      Illegal in the EU for remote-ordered items (everything you buy online and never see in person until you open the package containing it).
      Legal for items you buy or pick-up in person.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    17. Re: Good by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 2

      Still, you've got to actually eat it. No doggy bags. No preparing your lunch picnic at the breakfast buffet. And no leaving unreasonable quantities of leftovers on your plate, that they'd have to throw away. We have a Chinese buffet place around here where they post that they can charge you extra if they notice that you waste food.

    18. Re: Good by Botched · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And the polar opposite is china's Alibaba, where I ordered a present for my wife. The third-party merchant marked it as shipped on the main alibaba website, but did not actually send it. After some complaints, they assured me it had been sent. And after I waited a month and realized it had not, going to the alibaba website revealed that if you have not contested it within 2 weeks of the SELLER-ENTERED shipment date, you do not have the option to contest it. No links to click, no email, no ability to complain, no customer service number. Nothing, you blew it the second you gave them your credit card.

  3. Re:Hopefully, by omnichad · · Score: 2

    They already track serial numbers for big ticket items.

  4. It's an outrage by Kohath · · Score: 5, Funny

    Amazon is acting rationally.

    1. Re: It's an outrage by orlanz · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Exactly, in the past two years Amazon service has gone to the dogs. I probably return 1/10 items we buy. Rarely is the return not defective in a certain way. Off colors, wrong specs, bent pins, clearly well used, etc. Also sometimes it is days to weeks late. I have had them explain that it is 2 day shipping, it doesn't include the time it takes to ship out?!? And estimated delivery is not always accurate. Or the lack of tracking info means it will get to me tomorrow?!?

      Spend hours on Customer Service and they are more than happy to extend your Prime subscription or return the product that is lost in transit for a week as "compensation". I still need the baby food, diapers, gift, or relay circuit! And I don't want to reorder and pay the current higher price! Amazon said it was available under Prime for a certain price; they should stand behind what they say.

      I think they have moved onto AWS and left retail on autopilot.

    2. Re: It's an outrage by sexconker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I have had them explain that it is 2 day shipping, it doesn't include the time it takes to ship out?!? And estimated delivery is not always accurate. Or the lack of tracking info means it will get to me tomorrow?!?

      Yet the final checkout page says "Guaranteed Deliver By...". Screenshot it every time.

    3. Re: It's an outrage by e3m4n · · Score: 2

      I have suggested that they have two icons for prime. AmazonPrime in blue, if its in stock in a warehouse where you can get it within 2 days. And AmazonPrime in grey if its still free shipping, but due to the nearest warehouse, it might take an extra day or two. It can be confusing to select free 2 day shipping, but it not arrive in 2 days, only to discover the 'guaranteed delivery by' statement was actually 4 days later. So much stuff arrives in 2 days (hell sometimes even within 1) that I just assume it will be in the day after next.

  5. Free returns? by Lab+Rat+Jason · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This seems at odds with the bold face type that says "free returns" on many clothing items and other things that must be seen in person to decide if you really want it. It would almost seem like they are enticing you with a no-risk proposition with the transaction... only to ban people who are actually utilizing it.

    --
    Which has more power: the hammer, or the anvil?
    1. Re:Free returns? by omnichad · · Score: 2

      They also didn't expect people to go and buy 50 items and return all but one. But the fault lies with them for not being clear about what they want to offer. And they have plenty of profit to just own up and announce a policy change rather than blame their customers.

    2. Re: Free returns? by kenh · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So 'Free Returns' means 'Infinite number if Free Returns'?

      Non-defective returns cost retailers money, retailers are not in the business of loaning out their products.

      --
      Ken
    3. Re:Free returns? by Aereus · · Score: 2

      I'm going to assume the people banned were doing a truly excessive amount of regular returns, but it would be nice to see the actual numbers for these people. They were probably abusing the system by buying say, 3 sizes of clothing for each garment they wanted, then returning the two that weren't the best fit. Doing that over and over again for years.

    4. Re:Free returns? by DedTV · · Score: 5, Informative

      From better articles about this, it appears a large number of the bans were actually people who used returns as part of a fake review scheme. They'd 'buy' something, review it as a 'verified purchase', then return it at the last possible minute to get discounts, freebies or pay outs.

    5. Re:Free returns? by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Interesting

      They're banning "hundreds" of people out of the hundreds of millions of customers they have. These are people who are abusing the system, and they deserve the bans (well, maybe some of them don't, but I strongly suspect they all do). People like that are the reason why companies have to institute less lenient return policies, and by banning them Amazon can prevent abuse of their policies while still allowing people who may have legitimate reason for returning items to do so. In other words, Amazon can offer those free returns precisely because they ban people who abuse them, not because they ban people who use them.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    6. Re:Free returns? by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Interesting

      But the fault lies with them for not being clear about what they want to offer.

      I suspect part of the problem is the rules are "soft."

      If you bought 500 different things from Amazon over the year, and returned 50 of them, that's likely fine.

      But if you bought the same thing every month, returned it, then bought it again - In effect "renting" it for free, then you might get banned - Even though you're doing four times fewer returns than the first example.

      Their systems are looking for people that are 'abusing the system,' and that's a lot harder to write into a clear policy.

    7. Re: Free returns? by Monster_user · · Score: 2

      If you can't write it into policy, then your employees can't follow it, implement it, or enforce it. Policy interpretation follows a lowest common denominator theory. Every side with a stake in the implementation will push the interpretation as far as they can get away with.

    8. Re: Free returns? by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your explanation is too simplistic - When you have advanced software systems looking for people engaging in 'fraud' or 'gaming the system' those systems are looking for a wide-ranging set of behaviours which aggregate together to indicate something.

      If a rep from Visa calls me up and asks me to confirm a few purchases, he likely can't articulate the policy that caused Visa to suspect fraud - Other than in general terms. Likely it's the same here.

    9. Re:Free returns? by arth1 · · Score: 2

      Part of the problem is that too few sizes and cuts are offered.
      SML just doesn't cut it (no pun intended). The stores that offer selections based on things like shoulder width or sleeve length are getting rarer every day.

      The worst waste is probably for socks and underwear. If it doesn't fit, it's not like they can repackage it and send it to anyone else. After it gets returned, it gets destroyed. For online stores in particular, where adding a "details" section doesn't take up precious wall and shelf space, why can't they add measurement details in the descriptions? One or two sales extra out of thousands looking, or one or two fewer returns would make up for someone measuring and jotting it down.

  6. they've done this for years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I come to this place for actual news. Amazon has done this for years.

  7. Youtube Un-boxers by bryanbrunton · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are people on YouTube who have channels devoted to unboxing Amazon items that they clearly have no intention of ever keeping.

    Many of the reviews are truly low on content because you can tell the person has unboxed his/her 50th item that day, and they don't have the energy or knowledge to say anything of value.

    Amazon isn't in the business of allowing these people to profit from free returns.

    1. Re:Youtube Un-boxers by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      Except the usefulness of these "unboxing" reviews is lower than a high resolution picture of the product on the website.

      I'm not against reviews, but these are not reviews. Hell the few unboxings I've seen never actually use the product but just comment on the nice colour of plastic, and how well it resists the saliver the "reviewer" is droolling on it. Hell I've seen someone comment on the exact plastic material the power plug is made out of, but would he dare plug it into the wall? Hell no.

  8. Thank God by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I work retail and the amount of stupid is unreal.

    The whole I can return this at some point has completely removed personal responsibility. You can do whatever with said item, void even, the return policy as long as you pitch a big ole fit. That is all it takes for most items. Make sure to yell " I can get a better deal elsewhere or online!"

    Then you get the coupon losers. Cancer upon them.

    If you ever wondered about why checkout lines take forever and why there are so few people on the sales floor when you are there, thank these kind folk. You are just in the way of their get rich quick scheme. And they will raise hell if you say anything.

    Go early to find people out on the floor. Give them maybe some slack for poor people skills as they are there at this time to avoid people.

    Just some advice from nobody,...

  9. Re:I have a little Phillips AirFloss thing by arth1 · · Score: 2

    I don't think this was about Amazon banning people for having items replaced, but people returning items.

    And only those returning a large percentage of their purchases, compared to most customers. I have little sympathy for greedy fucks who intend to game and exploit the system, because it's everybody else that pays the price.