Slashdot Mirror


Hurricanes Are Moving More Slowly, Which Means More Damage (npr.org)

An anonymous reader shares a report: Hurricanes are moving more slowly over both land and water, and that's bad news for communities in their path. In the past 70 years, tropical cyclones around the world have slowed down 10 percent, and in some regions of the world, the change has been even more significant, according to a study published Wednesday in the journal Nature. That means storms are spending more time hanging out, battering buildings with wind and dropping more rain. "The slowdown over land is what's really going to effect people," says James Kossin, the author of the study and a tropical cyclone specialist at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. He points to Hurricane Harvey's effect on Houston as an example of what slower storms can mean for cities. "Hurricane Harvey last year was a real outlier in terms of the amount of rain it dropped," he explains. "And the amount of rain it dropped was due, almost entirely, to the fact that it moved so slowly."

96 comments

  1. More time to get out of the way? by Oswald+McWeany · · Score: 4, Interesting

    More damage where they hit, but doesn't that also mean you have more time to evacuate people to get out of the path. In theory a slower moving hurricane may mean more damage but should it not mean less human fatalities? At least in places that have the financial ability to move people out the path.

    --
    "That's the way to do it" - Punch
    1. Re:More time to get out of the way? by sqorbit · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't know if it was just because I paid more attention, but last Hurricane season they seemed to have trouble predicting the path. They had 3 or 4 probable paths listed at once with at least one. More time should allow for that as long as we can predict where it's going to hit.

      --
      Sent from my TARDIS
    2. Re:More time to get out of the way? by squiggleslash · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Alas no. The major issue with evacuations is predicting the path. Hurricanes going slower doesn't mean they're less likely to change path 12 hours before impact.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    3. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With modern forecasting, getting people out of the way (who want to get out of the way) is not a problem.

      There will be more fatalities for those who stay behind, because long duration high winds are more destructive the those same winds over a shorter duration. Also, most hurricane deaths are from drowning due to inland flooding, which is exacerbated by longer duration events.

    4. Re:More time to get out of the way? by ctilsie242 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even with a slower hurricane, it can be impossible to evacuate people. Houston had a hurricane a number of years ago where people were still locked in traffic when it hit. Harvey, they didn't even bother with an evac notice because it would have just been impossible to get everyone out, so the mayor decided that sheltering in place would be better.

    5. Re:More time to get out of the way? by ctilsie242 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This happened with Harvey. Right before it made landfall, it took a hard right for Houston, when initially, it was going to go up and pay Austin a visit.

    6. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not mentioned in the summary is that landfall would also decrease significantly. IFF all this is actual fact and not a whole bundle of people miscategorizing storm severity because of more expensive properties in the path and inflation, then it means the change in speed primarily shifts the damages to a tighter band of semicoastal property.

      Therefore, living mildly inland is becoming safer, but damage to islands may increase (in some cases it cannot increase because the island is already washed flat any time a fairly minor hurricane passes over).

      He points to Hurricane Harvey's effect on Houston as an example of what slower storms can mean for cities.

      Wasn't much of the Harvey damage a result of housing development in the flood drainage paths, so the government was unwilling to use some of the measures that had been in place?

    7. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Kind of difficult to get out of the way of a storm that covers half a state.
      It's not really feasible to evacuate the entirety of Florida, and by the time you know exactly where it will land it will be fairly close.
      And the Islands can't really evacuate anywhere and they usually catch the brunt of the storm, and have the worst infrastructure.

    8. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was Rita, and the problem is simply no way to evacuate millions of people with our infrastructure. Most of those people didn't need to evacuate anyway, but the fear mongering created a worse situation. Even contra flow lanes wouldn't have helped then. As someone who rode that storm out it was pathetic than anyone in Houston (not Galveston mind you) evacuated at all. The storm veered east and hit closer to Louisiana. Effect on Houston was mostly nothing. Compare that to Ike 3 years later, a smaller storm but bigger impact, Or Harvey. Anyone who lives near the coasts should be prepared to ride it out, unless you are in a storm surge area. But the media and government created a bad situation in Houston in 2005 for Rita, which Houstonians wisely ignored in later years.

    9. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It would however mean they can't get as far off predicted course in 12 hours.

      If they're ENOUGH slower you could juts evacuate everyone within 12 hours as the hurricane whirls of a point along the expected path.
      However the main problem is that most cities can't evacuate in 12 hours, many people won't evacuate if you tell them to, and even if you evacuate the people property damage still sucks.

    10. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've noticed in recent years that weather forecasting has greatly increased its false alarms. 25 years ago, if they predicted a big snowstorm, we had a big snowstorm. But sometimes they'd predict a light storm and we'd get slammed. Now it seems that twice a month or so, some big weather event is announced that never happens.

      So I wonder if that correlates to the 3 or 4 hurricane paths you mention. Differing computer models with conflicting predictions, where it used to be a human staring at a bunch of numbers, and using some intuition to make a prediction.

      Kind of like the saying, "A man with one watch knows what time it is. A man with three watches is never quite sure."

    11. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Sarten-X · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's always been the case, though. Those "3 or 4 probable paths" are the most likely out of the thousands of predictions from a dozen different models. Those models, however, have been getting more accurate over the past decade, significantly narrowing the cone of probable locations several days in advance of the storm.

      However, slower-moving storms still bring higher risk. Yes, people should have more time to evacuate, but the damage left behind will still be significantly worse, due to the increased flooding and longer duration of high wind, which in turn means more debris impacts. Those who won't (or can't) evacuate face the prospect of surviving not just a day of hiding in a shelter, but days or weeks of canned food, boiling water, and battery power... and years of work to repair the damage.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    12. Re:More time to get out of the way? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The major issue with evacuations is predicting the path.

      The major issue with evacuations is that there really are no good ways to empty out cities and coastal areas always have cities.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    13. Re:More time to get out of the way? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      >It's not really feasible to evacuate the entirety of Florida,

      Just because you can't, it doesn't mean you shouldn't.

      Nothing to do with hurricanes. Just empty our Florida.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    14. Re:More time to get out of the way? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      With modern forecasting, getting people out of the way (who want to get out of the way) is not a problem.

      Oh boy, are you wrong.

      https://www.wired.com/story/hu...

      https://www.bbc.com/news/world...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    15. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Sarten-X · · Score: 4, Interesting

      One of the interesting trends with winter storms especially is that we just don't care as much. An equal storm does less apparent damage.

      A few short decades ago, even a minor snowstorm would knock out power for a few hours. One I woke up and realized my alarm clock wasn't working, I'd have to call and report the outage, and eventually somebody would come around and fix the one service line coming through my area.

      Now, the service network can detect its own faults and dispatch repairs automatically. My alarm clock is now my phone, and it runs on its own battery - along with the cell tower. My LED lights and high-efficiency heating don't add nearly so much load to the electrical grid, so when my now-redundant area is automatically switched over to a backup line, that equipment can handle the additional load without any problem.

      Of course, building codes have also improved, so a storm of equal power is less likely to damage a newer building. Digital communications don't noticeably degrade as quickly as analog, either. With resilient electrical systems powering streetlights and widespread communications enabling coordination through the storm, the snowplows teams can run better with less risk, so by the time I need to actually travel, the roads are clear. With clear roads, businesses stay open, and life moves on as normal.

      It seems to me that most of the big storms that are predicted now are actually big storms... they just don't impact my life so much.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    16. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moving slowly over water also cools the water due to upwelling from strong winds and the hurricane energy comes from the heat in the water. Of course when a system gets almost stationary between land and sea, effects can be significant, in Houston it was a bit of that, with the rainbands of the cyclone absorving moisture from the Golf even when its center and more tham half of the storm was onshore.

      Along the years the forecast of trajectories have improved more than the predictions of intensity, achilles' heel of tropical cyclone forecasting.
      Sorry for my bad english.

    17. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cities' "clearance times"—how long it takes for all the residents to clear out—vary dramatically by location and storm severity. ... Houston needs 60 hours

      No, I am not wrong. Houston had 4 days warning, substantially longer than 60 hours. They chose not to evacuate.

    18. Re:More time to get out of the way? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've noticed in recent years that weather forecasting has greatly increased its false alarms.

      This is a result of changes in Journalism. 25 years ago we had far fewer sources of information, so they could afford to stick to the real forecast. Today, there are more cable channels, and many more online weather and news sources. So they have to sensationalize to attract an audience, and generate clicks and link sharing.

    19. Re:More time to get out of the way? by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah but have you ever watched Family Feud? That guy is extremely funny but he's also really unpredictable.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    20. Re:More time to get out of the way? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      No, I am not wrong. Houston had 4 days warning, substantially longer than 60 hours. They chose not to evacuate.

      No, we really didn't have 60 hours. "Modern forecasting" did not have the hurricane moving directly over Houston until a day before it hit.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    21. Re:More time to get out of the way? by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Insightful

      but doesn't that also mean you have more time to evacuate people to get out of the path

      In somewhere like Puerto Rico you don't have anywhere to evacuate the people to. Wealthy people could fly out to Florida in advance, but many in PR just had nowhere to go.

    22. Re:More time to get out of the way? by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 3, Interesting

      getting people out of the way (who want to get out of the way) is not a problem.

      Tell that to people who live on Puerto Rico and other Caribbean Islands.

    23. Re:More time to get out of the way? by reboot246 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Plus most of the major highways along the coast of the Florida panhandle, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, and Texas run parallel with the coast. Only a few major highways lead away from the coast and even when they make the interstate highways one-way going north, the traffic is horrible.

    24. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Immerman · · Score: 2

      Maybe. At least part of it though is that weather is getting fundamentally more unpredictable. More heat in the atmosphere means more potential for variability, while the fact that the poles are warming much faster than the equator is allowing the jet streams to slow down and meander far more than they historically have - greatly undermining the ability for historical trends to predict future outcomes.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    25. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Immerman · · Score: 2

      My understanding is that usually there's plenty of time for people to evacuate - the hard part is convincing them to actually do so. But hey, maybe more time considering the devastation being left in its wake would make a difference, especially if that devastation is far more severe than the historical average.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    26. Re:More time to get out of the way? by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 2

      I'm not clear that Harvey was more murderous than the hurricanes of 1875 and 1886 that swept from Matagorda Bay across to Houston-Galveston. They were faster in every sense and water heights may have been higher. I lost ancestors where the water was over 30 feet deep... and I don't think it was as high with Harvey. The "unusual" 1880 storm may have been a slow one more like Harvey. Basically most of any horrific records disappeared when their town was erased, permanently.

    27. Re:More time to get out of the way? by harvey+the+nerd · · Score: 1

      I'm not clear that Harvey was more water damaging than the hurricanes of 1875 and 1886 that swept from Matagorda Bay across to Houston-Galveston. They were faster in wind speeds and movement and the transient water heights may have been higher.

      I lost ancestors where the water was over 30 feet deep... and I don't think it was as high or higher with Harvey. The "unusual" 1880 storm may have been a slow one more like Harvey. Basically most of any horrific records disappeared when their town was erased, permanently. This was several miles from where Harvey's rainfall records occurred.

    28. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Solandri · · Score: 3, Informative

      One of the deadliest hurricanes on record was Hurricane Mitch, which reached category 5 at sea. But most of its devastation happened after dropped below hurricane status. It stalled over Honduras as a tropical storm and basically flooded the country back into the stone age (75 inches of rain over roughly 2 weeks). You can't evacuate when the storm spans all the way from the Atlantic to the Pacific coast.

      The only reason it isn't the costliest Atlantic storm on record is because it hit relatively poor countries. Hurricane Harvey was a cake walk by comparison ("only" 40 inches of rain over 1 week). But Mitch was 20 years ago and doesn't quite fit the desired narrative of modern storms moving slower. So Harvey is mentioned instead.

    29. Re: More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People need to live in fear.

    30. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I am not wrong. Houston had 4 days warning, substantially longer than 60 hours. They chose not to evacuate.

      We tried to evacuate for Rita. It was a cluster fuck of epic proportions. Yes, the decision was made not to evacuate, but it wasn't made on a whim. It was made with consideration for the timing of the event, the number of people to evacuate and *PAST EXPERIENCE*. But you go on, tell us how right you are. If you wouldn;t mind though, please speak louder as it;s hard to hear you with your head so far up your ass.

    31. Re:More time to get out of the way? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You can keep claiming how not wrong you are, that doesn't make you any less wrong. The Houston area didn't even get a hurricane warning as the storm was expected to follow a path up to Austin. They did get a tropical storm warning at 9pm the day before the battering rain hit. That was it in terms of "warnings".

    32. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Daralantan · · Score: 0

      My favorite recent example of this was in Charlotte, NC where we were told we were getting the next Hugo (and it'd be worse!111). People were buying out every generator within 100 miles, every store in and around the city was out of water, etc.... And then the hurricane missed Charlotte by 200-300 miles?

    33. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, I am not wrong. Houston had 4 days warning, substantially longer than 60 hours. They chose not to evacuate.

      No, we really didn't have 60 hours. "Modern forecasting" did not have the hurricane moving directly over Houston until a day before it hit.

      "Show me the Cone"
      "The Cone does not a guarantee of the path"
      "The Cone does not represent the size of the storm"

      See the Cone. Understand the Cone. Be the Cone. But never, ever, ever, trust your life to the Cone.

      People that live in areas of less frequent storms probably do not see this type of forecast often, and most likely do not fully understand it. The people that think the forecasts are getting worse simply don't know how often they were wrong 10-20-30 years ago. They also do not benefit from building codes that demand a higher standard, so evacuation is going to be the best option for lesser storms compared to Miami, and evacuation is not something you want to try doing at the last minute - along with everybody else.

      If someone is expecting an app on their phone to tell when it will rain on them because a butterfly in Japan turned left, well, I suggest going north to live in a hippy blizzard commune with all the other snowflakes. The rest of us adults will realize that severe weather hundreds of miles away may just come this way and be prepared whether it's necessary or not.

    34. Re:More time to get out of the way? by vikingpower · · Score: 2

      What I don't understand: friends of mine (Austrians) recently bought a house in Florida. Almost directly on the coast. I told them that, with climate change, they'll be swimming in their living room soon enough.

      --
      Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
    35. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      obviously the libs were sinning more in Houston than the repubs in Austin that week.

    36. Re:More time to get out of the way? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      * fewer human fatalities

      rule is, if you can count it, use fewer, if not then less.

      "I want less poison in my drink, please put fewer poison pellets in."

    37. Re:More time to get out of the way? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      The major issue with evacuations is predicting the path.

      The major issue with evacuations is that there really are no good ways to empty out cities and coastal areas always have cities.

      It's unfortunate that the genius planners keep wanting to pack us into them then.

    38. Re:More time to get out of the way? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      It's unfortunate that the genius planners keep wanting to pack us into them then.

      If you think Houston, New Orleans, Galveston, Tampa or other coastal cities were designed by "genius planners", then you really need to try to visit them sometime.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    39. Re:More time to get out of the way? by hitchhacker · · Score: 1
      60.58 inches

      The highest storm total rainfall, found in Nederland, northeast of Houston. Rainfall within a tenth of an inch of that total was recorded in Groves, a neighboring community. These both exceed the previous U.S. rainfall record of 52 inches, set by Hurricane Hiki in Hawaii in 1950.

      I had to wade out of my apartment in chest-deep water during Harvey. Those 50-60 inches of rain amounts happened over 3 days, not 1 week.

    40. Re:More time to get out of the way? by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      More damage where they hit, but doesn't that also mean you have more time to evacuate people to get out of the path. In theory a slower moving hurricane may mean more damage but should it not mean less human fatalities? At least in places that have the financial ability to move people out the path.

      More damage where they hit, but doesn't that also mean you have more time to evacuate people to get out of the path. In theory a slower moving hurricane may mean more damage but should it not mean less human fatalities? At least in places that have the financial ability to move people out the path.

      The ability to move out of harm's way is a function of which economic bracket you belong to. Additionally, the slower the path, the longer you need to stay out, holed out in a motel, probably a state or two away. That costs money.

      Last hurricane season I weathered hurricane Irma holed up with my wife and kids in South Florida. My sister who lives by the coast in Melbourne, she and her husband had to get out, and it took them almost 30 hours just to get out of the state, with Irma right behind them. She went all the way to Georgia where she had to get evacuated again to another location.

      That costs money. Many people simply cannot afford it. We learned this the hard way with Katrina.

    41. Re:More time to get out of the way? by hitchhacker · · Score: 1

      Harvey made landfall twice. It did reach inland a bit south-east of Austin and made it's turn back out into the Gulf where it curved back towards Houston as a tropical storm and stalled for a couple days.

    42. Re:More time to get out of the way? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I have the reverse story. I have relatives from the UK who got a Florida house many years ago. They recently sold it and moved their vacation residence to Portugal.
      So they won't be swimming.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  2. Aren't we all? by I'm+just+joshin · · Score: 4, Funny

    After 70 years, I expect to be moving slower too.

  3. bring on the fake news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Man slashdot can't stop carrying this garbage. If the hurricanes were fast moving the liberals would blame it there fantastical religion of global warming.

    1. Re:bring on the fake news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Someone, somewhere, is blaming the slowing o Global Warming.

  4. Take your pick by shayd2 · · Score: 0, Troll
    If the stats said "Hurricanes moving faster" then the headline would be "Less time to predict the path and evacuate".

    That's why it changed from "Global Warming" to "Climate Change". Any event meets the model and requires that we stop using any fuels

    1. Re:Take your pick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If (thing that didn't happen) then (random prediction), therefore (unrelated false assertion)

  5. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Turns out "liberals" are a large heterogeneous group of people.

    Not every liberal believes the same thing.

    Taken as a whole, something said by one liberal will probably contradict something said by another liberal.

    Sometimes they call it "For every PhD, there is an equal and opposite Ph.D"

    A state like Vermont is a good example. Overally politically liberal, and home of Senator Bernie Sanders, yet also, the NRA's Gold Standard ("Vermont Carry") for what ideal gun laws should look like.

  6. I'm skeptical about this by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

    Very slow storms can cause devastation by increased rainfall, as Harvey did, but because hurricane damage increases exponentially with wind speed:
    http://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/t... ...faster storms get increasingly dangerous more quickly with the extra wind speed that the leading quarter gets from hurricane speed added to ground speed than any "savings" from decreased time to pass by. The great New York hurricane of 1938 was only a Category 2 when it struck Long Island, but was moving unusually fast because of being squeezed between two adjacent weather systems that shot it forward like a watermelon seed. The summed wind velocity at the point of landfall made it as destructive as a Category 5.

    1. Re:I'm skeptical about this by robinsonne · · Score: 2

      When they're talking slower hurricanes, I understood that to mean the storm cell itself was traveling slower (loitering longer), and not referring to wind speeds. So an island that gets hit has hurricane winds/rain/surge for 15 hours instead of 7 hours (for example numbers pulled from air.)

    2. Re:I'm skeptical about this by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 0

      Yes, forward motion of the stormis exactly what they are talking about. I maintain that faster net wind speeds are more dangerous than longer duration of a storm in a given place.

    3. Re:I'm skeptical about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, pulled from somewhere other than air. You can figure on average from the first outer bands hitting an area it will be 24 hours later for the whole thing to pass.

    4. Re:I'm skeptical about this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, forward motion of the stormis exactly what they are talking about. I maintain that faster net wind speeds are more dangerous than longer duration of a storm in a given place.

      Having been through a few, and having had family which have been through a few ...

      Yes, faster wind speeds cause more damage. But if they're travelling by you faster, the duration of that damage is limited. If they're hanging over your head for a longer time, even if they aren't at the same peak wind speed, that might suck a little more.

      Now, imagine that god awful sweet spot of "quite a bit of wind, but travelling relatively slower past you than even more wind would" ... it's kinda like taking an angle grinder, spinning it at a lower RPM ... but holding it on your arm twice as long. Sure, it's slower, but it's gonna chew on you a lot longer.

      If that storm is over you for a lot more hours but with lower windspeed, that extended period of still very high winds hanging over your head gives a lot of room for damage.

      I've moved from living in a coastal area, so I'm often grateful that it's not me sitting there wondering how long the roof, powerlines, and trees are going to be holding out. Or just how much further that storm surge is coming this way. I can only imagine that, even if it is slower windspeeds, the longer it is over your head, the more likely it's going to do something you wish it didn't.

      I remember as a kid standing in the eye of a hurricane thinking "goddamn, glad that's over" ... only to have it explained to me that we're about to get it all over again. And holy hell, the second time around you're terrified from the beginning, because you're already seen what is going to happen. There's no gradual "oh shit", you're just suddenly back in a full storm.

      I think what they're saying is it's the cumulative effect of just how much wind you've been subjected to that might determine the overall damage ... so if you think of it like an area or a volume calculation, the longer it lasts, the more chances it has to really fuck shit up -- even if it's not going quite as fast.

      Because if you sustain a lower wind for a longer period of time ... things which might have held on briefly will just eventually give way.

      What you 'maintain' is irrelevant if you've never been in one and haven't studied them. You got a different conclusion than the scienticiens? Back it up, or shut up. Ideas you've pulled out of your ass don't count for fuck all.

  7. As someone who lives in Houston... by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 3, Funny

    We noticed already. But thanks for pointing that out.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  8. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eventually, it will reduce human population levels, possibly by 50%, and that's a good thing, right?

    -- Thanos

  9. It's funny how morons like Jarwulf suck cock by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    on the internet for money as Trump gets ready to get butt fucked in Federal Prison.

  10. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Isn't it funny how conservatives always try to paint liberals in such a negative light that they paint them all with such broad strokes applying the worst of the fringe to the group as a whole. All while ignoring that they are doing the same thing they are accusing the liberals of doing.

  11. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dead people due to global warming is a good thing. It's the only possible cure.

  12. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1, Troll

    No idea what you wanred to say, I basically stopped reading when you threw in the derogative about "liberals" ... what the fuck has political stance/orientation to do with this?

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  13. 70 year claim is bullshit by iggymanz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    there was no way to accurately track and measure hurricane velocity 70 years ago. through the 60s there were sporadically weather satellites each of which did not last very long. in the 70s and beyond, yes I'll believe claims of hurricane tracking/velocity

    1. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by flink · · Score: 3, Interesting

      They probably have logs of when storms made landfall at various islands as well as ships' logs to give an overall track and timeline and from there extrapolate average velocity. Also ground-based radar goes back further than the 70s, I think, so there should be some fairly accurate data that predates consistent satellite coverage (at least when the storm was over/near land).

      In addition, if you are only concerned with the storm around the time it makes landfall, then eyeballs are probably good enough. I'm sure local weather stations kept track of when the eye passed over them and how long it took to pass, which should give you the over-land velocity.

    2. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by pubwvj · · Score: 0

      You're wrong. I have an ancestor who was very into meteorology, tracking winds and temperatures over 200 years ago. He also did the first air crossing of the English Channel - very avant garde - in part so he could get data. Ironically I follow in his footsteps with similar scientific bends and research today.

      Global Warming is real but it is not to blame for as much as it is being blamed for and what all too many fail to realize is not only are there losers but there are winners. Global warming in the past is associated with increased biodiversity and the expansion and thriving of life.

      Now, Global Cooling is another story. You really don't want another ice age...

    3. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      Clarification: I meant that the person saying "70 year claim is bullshit" was wrong. They did have measurements that far back. Rereading my comment it almost looks like I'm responding to the other responder who had good points about the landfall.

    4. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      nonsense, you're delusional if you think your ancestor was capable of tracking hurricanes across the ocean or anywhere else. there weren't even hurricanes where he lived!!

    5. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      no, they did not have hurricane tracking back then, impossible. Taking local weather measurements from points hundreds of miles apart is not tracking. Your complete ignorance is incredible.

      you are spewing without a clue

    6. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      The newest trend is to throw all that data out because it's not accurate enough. This is then followed up by using very selective samples in very small time frames, 20-30 year windows and extrapolating them over a very long time frame.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    7. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes liberals do not want global warming because it would allow those brown people to move into their liberal utopias in Vermont and Madison. You do not want invasive species moving in and kicking out the less virile subspecies.

      Better just keep things cold.

    8. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Global warming in the past didn't include human cities needing to be moved, and didn't happen nearly as quickly. Your ancestor would be appauled at your disdain for science.

    9. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure Michael Mann will release a study that two bristlecone pine trees he examined prove hurricanes were faster 68.7 years ago.

    10. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Lots of people were tracking hurricanes. You need to study science history. It's very enlightening. Not everything is new.

    11. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      1. He lived in Boston. But you don't know enough history to be aware that I suppose. Just because he crossed the English Channel with a hot air balloon does not mean he lived in England, France or the Channel.

      2. They were tracking hurricanes. The process was a bit slower than today.

    12. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by pubwvj · · Score: 1

      Wow.
      You're talking to someone you don't know about something you don't know but you're so sure you're right that you take to insulting them? Or are you insulting people because you're unsure of yourself and insecure?

    13. Re:70 year claim is bullshit by toddestan · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. Before satellites, one way that comes to mind is to simply record when the eye passes over a location. Given a list of locations and times for where the eye is, you'd have a pretty good idea where the storm is moving and how fast. And this could be done with a map, reasonably accurate clocks, pen and paper, and the human version 1.0 eyeball. Granted this is a bit more difficult at sea, but tracks once landfall was made should be reasonably accurate. Accuracy could be improved further using a network of barometers to track air pressure, given that the lowest air pressure will be when the barometer is closest to (or possibly within) the eye of the storm. Once again very mature and established technology 70 years ago.

  14. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    Even when they talk about stuff like black holes or the extinction of the human race they bring up the good it can do but Global warming is 100% evil.

    In short, no, global warming does not do anything good. The situation that has permitted humanity to flourish on this planet is extremely precarious, and disrupting it is not positive.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  15. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its funny how liberals constantly say there is no objective good or bad and everything is shades of gray but global warming is like Satan.

    It's funny how conservatives can only win straw man arguments.

  16. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You should go first Republican faggots. Walk your talk, bitches.

  17. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If a countries food production goes up because frozen tundra becomes more productive, that's bad?
    Wake up to yourself.

  18. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes, it will melt the south pole so we can colonize it.

  19. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Datz cuz liberals gotz da brainz fillz width straw.

  20. Good grammar is sexy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is "affect people" not "effect people," unless you are in the movie business talking about people working in special effects.

  21. digging the mud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Takes time for alt.right generated hurricanos to smash alt.left slut-skins. Progg-folks bury so deep in the mud even a virile male twister needs to just gouge and gouge before bones are uncovered.

  22. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    If a countries food production goes up because frozen tundra becomes more productive, that's bad?

    That's not how it works. No study has yet been produced which shows that total farm land will increase. Some have suggested that some lands which are not currently arable will become so, but more lands which are currently useful will become less so and the balance is negative.

    Wake up to yourself.

    The best part of waking up is drinkypoo in your cup!

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  23. well, GOLLY! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe we should not have erected millions of gian windmills all over the place to harvest "free" "renewable" energy by slowing down the natural air circulation of the planet.

    Nothing's free. A windmill put into a smooth flow of air gets spun by slowing that air down and making it turbulent.

    I'm asserting this mostly tounge-in-cheek... but just mostly. (there IS probably an issue there, but not likely enough to DIRECTLY slow hurricaines - though with that whole chaos theory butterfly wing flap argument...)

  24. More Damage vs. basic math by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "In the past 70 years, tropical cyclones around the world have slowed down 10 percent"
    "That means storms are spending more time hanging out, battering buildings with wind and dropping more rain."

    So... If, in this simplified model, total damage = time spent under a storm, then why are they not mentioning the biggest factor? How many storms/year?

    In middle school math terms:
    If Bobby got 10 storms last year, and Sally got 9 storms this year that were 10% slower, how many watermelons do they have?

    Translating to time spent under storms:
    Bobby => 10.0, Sally => 9.9
    Conclusion => slower storms * fewer storms = less total damage

    Or even more compelling, after the relatively busy storm years around 07-09, the news media would simply not stop talking about how Florida would be completely destroyed within 3 years if this trend continued. There were idiots asking to redefine the scale to create a Cat6 storm that we'd be sure to see several times each year.

    In the real world, however, there were relatively very few major storms over the last 10 years. In the above example, that would be like saying Bobby had a bad year with 3 storms, while Sally only got 1 storm that was 10% slower in 3 years.

    Bobby => 3.0, Sally => 0.4
    Same conclusion, but ooooh look! The biggest factor has nothing to do with the scare tactics they are spreading.

    TLDR; This is yet another example of why I stopped paying attention to NPR years ago. They love to leave out key details to try and make your opinion for you, while still pretending to have the integrity the founders may have actually had.

  25. Hurricane Hazel by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hurricane Hazel (1954) was a fast moving storm that produced a MASSIVE area of wind damage from NC to New York, followed by tremendous flooding in Toronto. This article is garbage.

  26. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I only do that with Progressives. Classical liberals are generally in their right mind and most of the time common ground can be had. With Progressives, it's their way or nothing. If you disagree with them, then your an imbecile that needs to have a bit of eugenics policy applied to your gene pool.

  27. Re:Does global warming do anything good? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's funny about that statement is that there's a Progressive faction out there that really wants a human kill off to save mother gaia.

  28. More water total? by q4Fry · · Score: 1

    I'm too lazy to RTFA. Can someone who did explain whether this...

    "Hurricane Harvey last year was a real outlier in terms of the amount of rain it dropped," he explains. "And the amount of rain it dropped was due, almost entirely, to the fact that it moved so slowly."

    ...means total rainfall, or just rainfall per area in the affected zone (which I presume is smaller)? i.e. Is there a certain amount of rain that a cyclone or hurricane holds and it's being distributed over a smaller area, or does the slower movement somehow increase the total water volume?