Slashdot Mirror


Survey: JavaScript is the Most-Used Language, But Java is the Most Popular (sdtimes.com)

An anonymous reader quotes SD Times Java remains the most popular primary programming language, but JavaScript is the most used programming language overall. That is according to a recently released report from JetBrains on the State of the Developer Ecosystem in 2018. The report surveyed more than 6,000 developers from 17 countries to reveal the trends driving the world of coding this year... According to the report, Java, JavaScript and Python are the top three programming languages this year, and Go is the most promising language. Twenty percent of developers use multiple versions of Go at the same time, and 26 percent set up their GOPATH per project. The top Go frameworks include Gin, Beego, Echo and Buffalo.

While 38 percent of developers have no plans to adopt any new languages this year, the top languages respondents have started to learn in the last year include Python, JavaScript, Java, Go, TypeScript and Kotlin... Eighty-two percent of respondents use IDEs while 69 percent use editors. Of those using IDEs and editors, only 12 percent cited that they don't customize their IDE/editors. In addition, 77 percent use the dark theme for their editor or IDE... Some fun facts about developers include 77 percent listen to music while they are coding; the top music to listen to includes electronic, pop and rock; 53 percent sleep seven to eight hours a night; 85 percent code on the weekends; and 57 percent prefer coffee over tea.

136 comments

  1. Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Most used is probably cobal, fortran, c, c++ or maybe ada. Javascript hasnt been around that long, and im sure perl is still way ahead of it. Maybe most popular in the last year, most used is a bad headline

    1. Re:Wrong by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Most used is probably cobal,

      There are still shops that use cobol, but no one starts new projects in that language, and people have been migrating away from it for a while. The pay for that skill is low, and you'd do better learning APL.

      Fortran used to get a lot of use in the math areas, but they've all switched to python (numpy), R, or matlab. Combined, these do everything fortran did but better.

      It's important to remember that there are an order of magnitude more programmers now than there were in the days cobol was popular, and they write a lot of code. Java is the new COBOL, and has been for 15 years.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I doubt it. I'm guessing more code has been written in the last ten years than the preceding hundred. Much of it may be utter cock, but there's a fucktonne of it, and almost none of it is in cobol, fortran or ada.

    3. Re:Wrong by buddyglass · · Score: 1

      Depends on how you quantify "most used". I'm typing this on a browser written in C++, running on an operating system written in C. Am I "using" C and C++? I suspect "use", here, is defined as "number of developers actively working in this language on a day-to-day basis". By that metric, Ada and COBOL are not going to be in the top cohort.

    4. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a bit like saying there are more mainframes in the world than smartphones, because mainframes were invented first.

    5. Re:Wrong by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Most used is probably cobal

      I have met hundreds of developers. Many of them work in finance, payroll, and business process programming. None of them have used Cobol in more than 20 years. I am sure there are a few legacy Cobol programs still out there, but it is not common at all, and it is a myth that there is a vast secret parallel world of Cobol programmers slaving away in gigantic cubicle farms.

      fortran, c, c++ or maybe ada

      Fortran is used for HPC, but even there C++ is displacing it.

      Ada is not even used by the military anymore for new projects. Airbus uses it for their flight control computers. It is mostly dead.

    6. Re:Wrong by Crashmarik · · Score: 2

      The cost of the psychotherapy to go with APL would be prohibitive.

    7. Re:Wrong by mrsquid0 · · Score: 2

      A lot of scientific programming has migrated to Python (etc.), but not the software that requires speed. Python is an interpreted language while Fortran is compiled, so Python simply is not fast enough for some projects. Climate modeling, weather forecasts, most fluid dynamics code, and so on, need to be compiled to get enough speed. Usually this mean Fortran of C++. Python (etc.) is great for some forms of data analysis and smaller projects, but it has not replaced the heavy-lifting languages in the sciences, and is not likely to for a long time.

      --
      Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
    8. Re:Wrong by Joce640k · · Score: 3, Funny

      This 'story' needs the GIF of Captain Picard going, "Oh, no, not this crap AGAIN".

      https://memegenerator.net/img/...

      --
      No sig today...
    9. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those big projects are done using distributed stuff like Spark, which means it's probably written in Java. Sorry, no one is using Fortran for anything.

    10. Re:Wrong by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      No, it's fun! I actually tried APL in a job interview once. They said, "Use any language you want." "Really?? OK." tbh I don't think they meant it since I didn't pass.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    11. Re:Wrong by PPH · · Score: 1

      Most used is the language with all the four-letter command names.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    12. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no one is using Fortran for anything

      Citations needed. You'd be throwing a shit-ton of decent legacy code out the window. Many big projects are built on top of these legacy routines whatever framework they're wrapping around them.

    13. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^^^^this

      That comment needs modded +5 Insightful --- it's extremely sad, but that's because it all too true.

      Speaking as an old COBOL and FORTRAN programmer I can easily say that I'm not very impressed by many of the, so called, modern languages that have cropped up, and still more continue to show up each year.

      But, of course, it doesn't matter what I know about programming or what I think of the "new" programmers and their languages... the change is happening whether it's a good thing or not, and whether I like it or not. But then I quit programming as a professional a decade or two back because of the direction I saw it going and I didn't want to be held responsible for some of the dreck that passes for programs these days.

      Just remember that while some change can be a good thing, a lot of the "new and improved" stuff really isn't and that old and stable isn't necessarily a bad thing. You young guys think all us experienced types are worthless and our skills can't keep up... you'll realize just how wrong that is when age creeps up on you too (and it will, count on it).
      --
      Steve (AC because I haven't bothered to register in all these years)

    14. Re:Wrong by Creepy · · Score: 1

      Since we're talking Fortran and only Mechanical Engineers still used Fortran when I was in school 20+ years ago, I'd say Python or LabView are most important to learn these days for Mechanical Engineers. My understanding is Fortran is dying quickly in that industry. Personally I hate Python with a passion and am not too keen on LabView, but I didn't have to do much with either and now pretty much program straight java or C# (got laid off, now doing automation/programming/management consulting).

    15. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it even possible to use COBOL and FORTRAN to write the types of programs used today?

      For sure you can't write iOS apps in them, and I suspect you can't practically write Android apps in them.
      They don't run in the browser, so you can't use them for web UI work. I've never heard of them being used for PC/Mac desktop applications.

      I suppose it might be possible to write web services in them, but why would you when so many other languages have great support for doing so?

    16. Re: Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Interesting tidbit i was told a while back most large scientific research compute farms have a high percentage of fortrain jobs where the programmers are all self taught. For example the economist, biologist, nuclear engineers will use fortrain for the speed of the math functions and they maybe take one CS class. Python and other intrpetitive languages are used to post process the results. But its not just one language they use, but fortran has been a constant

    17. Re:Wrong by OrangeTide · · Score: 2

      Fortran isn't used to generate garbage mini-programs for advertisements. It's clear how JavaScript is used more than anything else despite its very short life.

      I wouldn't be surprised if more JavaScript is written in a year than in all of COBOL's lifetime. I don't have the numbers, so I don't know. but something to think about.

      That said being the most used or the most popular doesn't really mean these languages are the best. (depends on what you measure the language by)

      --
      “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
    18. Re: Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Technical itâ(TM)s probably hardware programming languages like verilog since all processors, memory controllers and graphics processors are designed with it these days and you need to use those tools to create the building blocks to code in other software language.

      So most used language is not a software language. Maybe the most programmed language is javascript

    19. Re:Wrong by ElitistWhiner · · Score: 1

      APL sorts out Left-Brain programmers. As a result, COBOL ASCII char set derivative languages prevailed with a vastly larger pool of coders available ti industry at vastly smaller sums.

      An APL Right-Brain programmer thinks abstractly along with other things:
      Right brain controls left side of body
      Prefer visual instructions with examples
      Good at sports
      Good at art
      Follow Eastern thought*
      Cat lovers
      Enjoy clowning around
      Can be hypnotized
      Like to read fantasy and mystery stories
      Can listen to music or TV while studying
      Like to write fiction
      Prefer group
      Fun to dream about things that will probably never happen
      Enjoy making up own drawings and images
      Good at geometry
      Like organizing things to show relation
      Can memorize music
      Occasionally absentminded
      Like to act out stories
      Enjoy interacting affectively with others
      Think better when lying down
      Become restless during long verbal explanations
      Enjoy creative storytelling
      Prefer to learn through free exploration
      Good at recalling spatial imagery
      Read for main details
      Skilled in showing relationships between ideas
      Preference for summarizing over outlining
      Solve problems intuitively
      Very Spontaneous and unpredictable
      Dreamer
      philosophical

      APL was IBM's core to its IBM 160/370 mainframe OS'n. Today it remains mainly on WallSt. and research where fast transform results with time sequence data afford leverage measured in real USD. Few are those who could grok APL without the crutch of ASCII.

      Hence the therapy reference...

    20. Re:Wrong by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The whole article is cheerleading for some of the worst technologies ever to get mainstream attention, so forget about factual accuracy.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    21. Re: Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Javascript - most used for spying on users and mining bots

    22. Re: Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The biggest issues with Fortran are finding good cheap compilers, difficulty with reading unformatted files, and no network libraries. Even to download a url you have to use a foreign function interface to a C library.

    23. Re: Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The biggest issues with Fortran are finding good cheap compilers

      gfortran is free and one of the best Fortran compilers available.

      difficulty with reading unformatted files

      No more deficit that any other language.

      and no network libraries. Even to download a url you have to use a foreign function interface to a C library.

      Oh yeah my fluid dynamics code running on super computers really gives a fuck about down loading a URL.

    24. Re:Wrong by sfcat · · Score: 1

      It's important to remember that there are an order of magnitude more programmers now than there were in the days cobol was popular, and they write a lot of code. Java is the new COBOL, and has been for 15 years.

      Java is about 27 years old. By 2003 (15 years ago) Java had been the dominate language for almost a decade.

      --
      "Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
    25. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Left/right brain dominance is a myth.

    26. Re:Wrong by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Agreed. Once again, and equally pointless as every other time it's been done, these articles talk about "most used / most popular programming languages" as though you could talk about "most used / most popular vehicular-based transportation" and have it mean anything at all except for statistics or bragging rights.

      Since this is slashdot - a car analogy: Just like the fact that a basic car is probably the "most popular" vehicular transportation doesn't mean it's the best at all jobs. Like crossing an ocean or a continent or a lake, or perhaps whether you wish to optimize for speed or cargo capacity, all of which would be better suited for less "popular" and more specialized vehicles.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    27. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Java is only about 23 years old counting from initial release (1995), so there is no way it could have been dominant for a decade in 2003.

    28. Re:Wrong by Junta · · Score: 1

      The population of people that were using Fortran after the year 2000 that are doing Java development to solve their problems rounds to 0%.

      Fortran's popularity in brand new codebases for technical computing persisted as it was particularly well suited for scientific computing, a little less able to do fancy programming tricks, but also less intimidating.

      A significant portion of that user base has moved to Python, with the heavy lifting done in C libraries that have been written, and the rather less 'scary' looking python as a means to supervise that code.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
    29. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dominate is a verb. The adjective is dominant.

      Is it that fucking hard?

    30. Re:Wrong by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The thing is, you have years of accumulated business logic in C**** (I will not utter its name here). Do you reverse engineer and rewrite all that stuff in whatever language is bending on twatface and cackexchange?

      No. Because you daren't. You have no idea what the holy fucking Mary it does, but you know that if it suddenly stops doing it you're in big shit[1]. There's magic 12s and 20s and 240s scattered about like underwear in Ibiza that are probably something to do with converting old money into metric[2], and if they left it alone in 1972 you're about as keen to change it now as you are to eat your own cock. So you wrap the shiny around it using something like this evil motherfucking ratbastard. https://www.ibm.com/developerw...

      [1] Yes, TSB, I did glance at you.
      [2] It was just an excuse to put prices up, you know. Toilet rolls, 37p for two - that's over ten guineas each!

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    31. Re:Wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      There are still shops that use cobol, but no one starts new projects in that language
      Of course they start new projects in COBOL.

      It's important to remember that there are an order of magnitude more programmers now than there were in the days cobol was popular
      Yeah, most people don't think about that.

      According to this: https://www.statista.com/stati...
      The Android app store has about 4 million apps, the Apple one about 2 million. Obviously many apps are super simple. But assuming you do something decent an App easy will have a few 10,000 lines of code. And that are only Apps, no one is really counting how much lines of code in house software developers create for stuff that is never used outside of the organization

      I guess we have a significant increase of lines of code written per year. Even if it is only 2% it doubles every 35 years.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    32. Re:Wrong by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Strange,
      Climate modeling, weather forecasts, most fluid dynamics code, and so on, need to be compiled to get enough speed.
      The meteorologic institutes on the world disagree. Most of their software is Python.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    33. Re:Wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well that explains alot about the climate models. Just get one indentation out of whack and the model says the world is going to fry.

      <sarcasm/>

    34. Re:Wrong by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      If by "most used" you mean systems running software developed with that frame work, then maybe.

      If by "most used" you mean number of human beings developing with those frameworks ... no way jose.

      The 2nd one is the most natural way of reading that phrase IMHO.

  2. I'm strange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I like C++ and C#, drink coffee and tea, use an IDE (Visual Studio) with the light theme, and would be delighted to try Go for $200. My favorite music is by Taylor Swift, and I love to code on the weekends listening to:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCXGJQYZ9JA

    1. Re: I'm strange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I code I listen to

      https://youtu.be/dQw4w9WgXcQ

    2. Re: I'm strange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a woman, stupid.

    3. Re: I'm strange by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Women can't be queer?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    4. Re: I'm strange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a """woman""" with a Y chromosome

    5. Re: I'm strange by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Newfag.

      If you are going to troll on slashdot you can at least have the decency to link to hello.jpg.

  3. Java? JavaScript? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Never heard of either being used in programming

    Is it good Coffee?

  4. Popularity contest say very little by Casandro · · Score: 2

    Javascript is used for many Terabytes of completely needless code for Websites.
    Java is in large part popular because many universities teach it to their students. Essentially it's similar to the question what language you know.

    What would be more interesting would be to ask the same question for different uses.

    1. Re:Popularity contest say very little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah. Most code written these days is in web apps. I'm a web developer. These days I use Elixir, till recently mostly Ruby (yes, I know). I also do sprinkling of javascript for UI fluff but I'm guessing the questionnaire which gave us this data would just count one for those three languages. Then another web developer who does PHP all day also ticks JS for the one hour a week he spends on it. Then the .net web dev also ticks JS for the occasional cut and paste straight from Stack Overflow and so on...

    2. Re:Popularity contest say very little by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Java is popular because it is highly entrenched in the enterprise. In the financial world it has been steadily eclipsing COBOL for two decades. It is taught in universities because whether all the Python and C## fans like it or not, it is a highly successful language and platform. It is by no means perfect, but perfection is the enemy of the good.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:Popularity contest say very little by rnturn · · Score: 1

      Javascript is used for many Terabytes of completely needless code for Websites. Javascript is used for many Terabytes of completely needless code for Websites.

      You could also say:

      Java is used for generating many Terabytes of traceback in log files.

      One wonders how much power at Amazon would be saved if they didn't have to accommodate all the Java traceback dumps flying around their infrastructure.

      --
      CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
    4. Re:Popularity contest say very little by phantomfive · · Score: 0

      It took me a long time to understand why Java is popular, because I couldn't really see a use for it. Finally I realized it fits one niche really, really well: you can put a bunch of low-skill developers to work in Java, and they won't mess the code base up beyond ability to work in it. Oh, they will make it really ugly, but those same developers in C would end up with something completely broken and unsalvagable.

      Java is the COBOL of our era.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:Popularity contest say very little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It took me a long time to understand why Java is popular, because I couldn't really see a use for it.

      Ok, hipster.

    6. Re:Popularity contest say very little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      While this undoubtedly happens, it isn't why Java is popular.

      Java is popular because it has a very large ecosystem. In its early days, Sun and especially IBM threw a lot of weight behind it. This meant it had a good IDE early on, and key libraries became available quickly (e.g. the JDBC API standardized SQL database support, and all the database companies quickly supported it).

      Also "write once, run everywhere" wasn't perfect, but it was a hell of lot better than the contemporary alternatives.

      This got the snowball rolling, and it has built up momentum ever since. Today, the Java ecosystem is simply much bigger than everyone else. More libraries, more and better tools, more installed base, more questions answered on StackOverflow, and more programmers (admittedly of varying skill levels). It is essentially the standard in corporate IT.

    7. Re:Popularity contest say very little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      COBOL and FORTRAN have all these features you mention, had them decades ago, and the languages are 100% portable (especially since COBOL was the first programming language ever to be "standardized"). In COBOL and FORTRAN you can indeed "write once and compile/run anywhere" and have been able to do so for decades.

    8. Re:Popularity contest say very little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Could you write a web server in mid-1990s portable FORTRAN or COBOL?

    9. Re: Popularity contest say very little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Global warming is leftist fiction. Humans are not causing climate change. These are facts that you spend an incredible amount of time denying.

    10. Re:Popularity contest say very little by Creepy · · Score: 1

      COBOL needed to die decades ago. It was kept on life support by bankers (some of the financial world like the stock market let it go years ago) and the bank mainframes they didn't want to upgrade, mainly. Python is a popular language for mostly non-programmers and nearly everything I've seen written with it is classic functional programming.

        The biggest problem at least for enterprise is it often Python code has a complete lack of reusability. When I write java classes I follow the strict OOP paradigm of have each class do one thing and do it well. It can lead to lots of classes, but I was able to reuse 80% of my work moving between dissimilar projects doing a similar task (validating data migration between various data stores). Since a lot of that code is independent, I mainly had to write transform logic and data-store connectivity logic - the matching and data structures (which use Maps) are entirely the same and just need to be fed formatted schema (in XML or JSON - JSON is the internal format, I wrote an XML converter because it was easier to convert the spreadsheet to XML than to JSON).

    11. Re: Popularity contest say very little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Java is a stupid language with a retardedly designed jdk.
      It smells professional though. You can do almost anything with it, except chdir.

    12. Re:Popularity contest say very little by gweihir · · Score: 1

      And that, unfortunately, is pretty much the situation. Java and JavaScript are the tool of choice for today's moron coders that understand absolutely nothing and that need to be protected from anything even a little complicated.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    13. Re:Popularity contest say very little by jmccue · · Score: 1

      In COBOL and FORTRAN you can indeed "write once and compile/run anywhere" and have been able to do so for decades

      True if you never used any vendor extensions, which on some machines were almost impossible to do.

      'Modern' languages are not any better, different issue but same end result.

      For example, Java "run anywhere" means you need 2 maybe 3 different interpreter versions, depending upon the application. One person has 3 different interpreters on their Windows PC.

    14. Re: Popularity contest say very little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deniers gonna deny.

      Not going to argue, I just find it truly tragic that what should be a straightforward scientific question has become so politicized, it is effectively impossible to have a rational discussion about it...

    15. Re:Popularity contest say very little by Memnos · · Score: 1

      That is a generalization that offers little insight. They can tend to be that way, and certainly can appear that way, because they are so widely used and thus have evolved libraries and tooling that grunt coders can work with and understand.

      But Java can also solve quite sophisticated problems, in quite sophisticated ways, in the hands of a highly skilled team. It has some pretty nice features; as an example, parallel streams are very convenient and have a lot of expressive power, provided you understand parallelism. And there's a library for damn near everything. It can handle very large and high-throughput application requirements, but know your GC or prepare for trouble. But Java is hamstrung by its legacy and its need to support its past.

      JavaScript is also capable of a lot, and implements some fairly sophisticated techniques under the hood. But it has some really bad parts, and has such a low barrier to entry that it attracts a lot of coders who are rank amateurs. Also, being "stringly typed", JavaScript is terrible for large applications. But there's TypeScript for that.

      It depends on the team, and the type of work being done. I know there's a lot of incompetent hacks out there, but at this stage of my career, I don't personally meet them much anymore, or at least I move them elsewhere when I do. I don't work with either right now, but have done some interesting work with each in the past.

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
    16. Re: Popularity contest say very little by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Being strongly typed makes a language bad for large applications? No, being strongly typed is what keeps it from turning into an impossibly incoherent mess like large JavaScript programs.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    17. Re: Popularity contest say very little by Memnos · · Score: 1

      No, that's not what I meant. "Stringly typed" is a pun that programming language theorists use to derisively describe JavaScript's typing system. Note my later sentence about TypeScript, which I always prefer for any significant browser-based application subsytem, like a SPA, or for something non-trivial in node.js

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
    18. Re: Popularity contest say very little by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, you're right. I completely misread your post. Carry on and trash my previous comment.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    19. Re: Popularity contest say very little by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This person you mention sounds like an idiot.

    20. Re:Popularity contest say very little by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      And nevertheless most people don't can distinguish Java from C/C++ or JavaScript code ...
      No idea why you hate people who prefer to write in Java.

      Code is code, get over it.
      Hardware is irrelevant in > 90% of all cases of software development.

      Here some C code to bloat about:

            int* ptr = 0x3FAD;

            *ptr = 1;

      What dos it do? Spare me the answer: you don't know. But it is perfect C, isn't it?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  5. To everyone's detriment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We continue to use a bloated and buggy language that is slowly going away.

    1. Re: To everyone's detriment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And that is speaking of Java, not JS

    2. Re: To everyone's detriment by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      JavaScript is a ridiculously bloated language. Look at the size of most of the libraries.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re: To everyone's detriment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      In terms of web development: Are you talking about native Javascript (size of library: 0K), or web applications that load jQuery and other large libraries just to move a

      tag around in a webpage a little more easily (in their opinion)?

    4. Re: To everyone's detriment by zifn4b · · Score: 1

      In terms of web development: Are you talking about native Javascript (size of library: 0K), or web applications that load jQuery and other large libraries just to move a

      tag around in a webpage a little more easily (in their opinion)?

      I have an application stack that I've been messing around with that loads tons of libraries including React and Material UI and after running uglify js, the whole shebang is about 290k, VERY SMALL.

      --
      We'll make great pets
    5. Re: To everyone's detriment by dave420 · · Score: 1

      OK - I've looked, and they seem fine to me. Want to try making a more substantive argument? Maybe with examples and evidence your examples are not outliers?

  6. What was the *actual* polling methodology? by mykepredko · · Score: 4, Insightful

    From TFA: "More than 15K people participated in the Developer Ecosystem Survey 2018, but only the responses of 6K respondents were included in this report." They go on to say that they used social media to find their population and weighted the results according to countries and whether or not the respondent was a student.

    So why should I consider these results as representative of anything? First, almost 2/3rds of the responses weren't used and then, on the responses they deemed acceptable, they were weighted in some way which they don't explain.

    I bet that if I took the same data, applied my own response filter and weighting system, I could show that:
    - Pascal is the number one programming language
    - Arduino IDE is the most popular development environment
    - 42% listen to old Jack Benny radio shows while coding
    and so on...

    1. Re:What was the *actual* polling methodology? by piojo · · Score: 1

      To me, it seemed like they used ALL the responses from ad networks (realizing the ones they got via their IDE would be way too biased), but they didn't actually say that outright.

      --
      A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
  7. Popularity contests actually say a lot by mykepredko · · Score: 1

    I would argue that they don't provide any meaningful, actionable data.

    There are implications about what developers should look at to prepare for the future, but I don't think anybody will tell you that basing your education/training on what's popular now is of any long term value (although you could argue that learning Cobol and MVS/JCL in the 1970s/1980s would provide you with a nice living now).

    I honestly don't care what IDEs, drinks or music other developers use while working: unless they result in flashing screens, smell awful or are too loud (I've experienced all three with different coworkers).

  8. 85 percent code on the weekends by mohsel · · Score: 1

    I wonder what they're doing on weekdays ?

    1. Re:85 percent code on the weekends by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Hanging out at Starbucks on their Macbooks.

    2. Re:85 percent code on the weekends by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      If they're hanging out at McDonalds, do they use Big Macbooks?

  9. What year did they do this survey 2001? by notbob · · Score: 0

    Java is antique. Iâ(TM)ve not known anybody to use it in many many years. .Net and C# are leap years better

    1. Re:What year did they do this survey 2001? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " Iâ(TM)ve not known anybody to use it in many many years."

      Are you an actual working programmer?

      Whether .net and c# are better due to some nicer language features is largely irrelevant. The Java ecosystem is probably 10x the size of .net.

    2. Re:What year did they do this survey 2001? by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Then you don't get out much.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    3. Re:What year did they do this survey 2001? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Protip: It is not a good idea to replace something bad with something worse...

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  10. Kotlin? What a joke. by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

    Jetbrains says their language Kotlin is a "top" new language. Good luck with that Jetbrains. No one has even heard of that. The rest of it is nonsense too.

    1. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by jb_nizet · · Score: 2

      You need to get out of your cave. Kotlin is now the primary language that Google advises to use to develop Android apps (you've heard of Android, right?), and it's becoming strong on the server-side as well, where Spring (the most used server-side framework on the JVM, which is itself the most used programming platform), among others pushes its use too.

    2. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by gweihir · · Score: 2

      Fun fact: "Kot" literally means "shit" in German....

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by Philotomy · · Score: 1

      Lately I've been using Kotlin for Android development. It's nice (way better than using Java).

    4. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by Memnos · · Score: 1

      Fun fact: Kotlin is named after an island near St. Petersburg, Russia, where the language was developed.

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
    5. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

      Kotlin and Scala exists because Java is such an excruciating language to program in that developers are making languages that compile to it. Javascript used to have coffeescript that did the same but then they just fixed the language itself.

    6. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Coffeescript is dead but TypeScript is increasing in popularity.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    7. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by h33t+l4x0r · · Score: 1

      Yeah, TypeScript is great, and so is ES2016+ The old JS from the 90s on the other hand was awful and needs to get off my lawn.

    8. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by Philotomy · · Score: 1

      I didn't take JS seriously until after I read Crockford's book. That was illuminating. Even older versions of JS can be okay if you understand the nature of the language and what you should avoid. And I agree it's (mostly) gotten better. Using modern ECMAScript is actually pretty nice.

    9. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by gmiller123456 · · Score: 1

      You need to get out of your cave. Kotlin is now the primary language that Google advises to use to develop Android apps

      Yea, they also advised we drop Facebook and only use our Google+ accounts. That's why you should never take advice solely from the creator of a product.

    10. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by SuperRenaissanceMan · · Score: 1

      Yea, they also advised we drop Facebook and only use our Google+ accounts. That's why you should never take advice solely from the creator of a product.

      Lately, I wish I *had* dropped Facebook and only used my Google+ account.

      --
      Any comment mentioning moderation is automatically Offtopic.
    11. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by micahraleigh · · Score: 1

      Our consultancy has had several folks really making a deal of Kotlin.

      When I first counted on indeed.com a few months ago, I didn't see any listings.

      Then a month ago I saw 5.

      This is in the Raleigh area.

      By comparison there are usually 200 or so C# and thousands of HTMLs.

    12. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by dave420 · · Score: 1

      It's more "dung" or "faeces" than "shit".

    13. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by gweihir · · Score: 1

      It is an overly formal term (as for example an MD would use) for "shit". It means exactly the same substance though.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    14. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by gweihir · · Score: 1

      I wonder how that island got its name...

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    15. Re:Kotlin? What a joke. by Memnos · · Score: 1

      "Shit Island"? That might fit with the stereotypical Russian worldview.

      --
      I don't trust atoms -- they make up stuff.
  11. Buick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ellison bought Java. I think. What Ellison can't do. Good to see Buick is back. After all the newspapers said it was out of business for good. Lots of trust with newspapers. Hah.

  12. TIOBE Index shows my fav CLIMBING by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    TIOBE Index shows my fav in Object Pascal CLIMBING & it never ever left the top 20 since inception in Delphi (now I'm into FreePascal + Lazarus) https://www.tiobe.com/tiobe-index/

    I use it with GOOD reason (making the web faster/safer/more reliable vs. INFERIOR competition (DNS/Antivirus/Firewalls/Addons)) VIA APK Hosts File Engine 2.0++ for Linux 64-bit https://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12209260&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=56754750/

    NO single 1 of them does MORE for much less as hosts do & are they full of bugs/inefficiencies (or souled-out NOT to work by default (addons)) + complexity that get them nigh constantly exploited!

    APK

    P.S.=> Java & Javascript (yes, I've used both in academia & professionally - was FORCED to) seriously STINK - full of bugs or constant misuses + INTERPRETED slow crap... apk

    1. Re:TIOBE Index shows my fav CLIMBING by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can you do anything other than lie, and spam bullshit?
      Why am I even asking, that is basically all you do, with a bunch of empty threats, and petty name calling thrown in for good measure.

  13. A lot of developers have had to eat crow by MikeRT · · Score: 1

    Spring Boot and Grails are definitive proof that 90% of the complaints about learning curve were always a problem of developer culture and not the platform. It is probably easier to do a Spring Boot quickstart now than a Rails or Django one because the basic setup that just works is two files (pom.xml and a Java or Groovy source file).

    1. Re:A lot of developers have had to eat crow by djbckr · · Score: 1

      Spring Boot and Grails are definitive proof that 90% of the complaints about learning curve were always a problem of developer culture and not the platform. It is probably easier to do a Spring Boot quickstart now than a Rails or Django one because the basic setup that just works is two files (pom.xml and a Java or Groovy source file).

      But to do anything meaningful or moderately complex requires underlying knowledge of how Spring Boot works. While there is a lot of documentation on Spring Boot, I find it's exceedingly difficult to find a straight answer on "How do I do X". Usually there are at least 3 to 9 different answers with many (most?) outdated answers floating around.

      I generally consider myself to be a competent programmer in many languages, but when it comes to Spring Boot I feel like I've been dropped in the ocean without a life raft.

    2. Re:A lot of developers have had to eat crow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm a backend developer who works in spring boot all day long. There is a significant learning curve from all those quick starts to actually doing something useful with it. While they may check the box for speed, the implementations in those are not what you'd really do in a production app.

      Just look at spring data, say you need to access oracle, redis and elasticsearch at the same time. There are weird quirks with that.

      Just using two caching technologies requires a lot of hand waving. Sure there is a composite cache manager, but you have to try to get both caches playing nice without interfering or duplicating themselves with the other. When you're trying to provide libraries for other teams, it's just a mess

  14. If you were to ignore JavaScript on internet by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    how popular would it then be? Not very, I suspect.

    People don't write interactive web-pages in HTML5 and Javascript because they like to as much as because they have to.

    1. Re:If you were to ignore JavaScript on internet by PPH · · Score: 1

      Like banging my head against the wall, I do it because it feels so good when I stop.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  15. I program in VBA, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you insensitive clods.

  16. Shoking! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Java is the most popular programming language between clients of JetBrains.

    What a shock!

  17. Java is Great! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Java is great for starter programmers, or those that just need to cobble something together. It's resource lite, with only a quad-core cpu, 8gb ram, and a few GB of disk space, "hello world" compiles and runs in just a few minutes!

    programmers are shielded from all the "hard stuff" like memory management, pointers, sorting, algorithmic complexity, because all the hard work is done for them, by real programmers.

    There is always a framework, or class that you can use to do the hard stuff, you just need to worry about the trivial application logic.

  18. C coder here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have no idea how anyone programs without lots of coffee.

    1. Re:C coder here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly the only programming language worth while would be called C'affeine !

  19. Fuck java by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There, I said it. Cant stand the language. Please die already.

  20. No music while doing serious coding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe some people are doing some sort of light, routine coding, and can listen to music. But if you're pushing the limits of your abilities, music will be a noisome distraction. I know, Einstein, while working on the general theory of relativity, would take breaks and play his violin, but that's different. You do need breaks when you've been working your brain hard, and then music might be the ticket.

  21. LOL! Better than MILKSOP do nothing YOU by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ! Better than MILKSOP do nothing YOU & what I state is pure verifiable fact anyone can see PUNY unidentifiable anonymous "ne'er-do-well" (you).

    * What is it LIKE knowing you're a CHATTERING dolt do-nothing human FAIL?

    APK

    P.S.=> ... & do you REALLY WONDER WHY women do NOT want "your kind" (lmao)? Don't - you're waste of LIFE (& you KNOW it + show it, constantly FAILING (it's all you've LEARNED TO DO, lol))... apk

  22. My Results (because you know you're interested) by Philotomy · · Score: 1

    Most used languages:
    Swift (for iOS)
    Kotlin (for Android)
    C# or VB.NET (for server-side - the company I work for has a MS server stack)
    JavaScript (for web)

    Over the history of my career, the most used language is probably Java (for server-side, for Android, and even for some client applications), followed by C++ and C (for desktop applications and embedded systems). For iOS, I used Objective C until Swift came out.

    As far as preferences, I like both Swift and Kotlin (and prefer them over Objective C and Java). JavaScript has grown on me, despite its warts. I find it nice if you use some of the modern features (Babel helps) and avoid its pitfalls (the "bad parts" -- a good linter helps with this). That said, JavaScript is a language that makes it easy to screw things up if you don't understand it well, so I get the hate that JavaScript attracts.

    I put Java and C# in the same category, preference-wise. I can code in them just fine, but they're not my favorites.

    I also put C++ and C in the same general category. If I'm using one of these, I'm probably doing something where I'd have a mild preference for C.

    VB.NET is not something I like to use, but something that I have to use. It's at the bottom of my preference list. I don't like the syntax and find it verbose, ugly, and inelegant.

    I drink coffee and water when I'm coding. I listen to whatever I feel like. Usually rock or classical, but sometimes jazz. I sometimes code on the weekends (hobby stuff, not work). I probably average 7-8 hours of sleep a night. I use Xcode for iOS, Android Studio for Android, Visual Studio for .NET stuff, and editor + bash shell for JavaScript. I prefer a dark theme for my IDE or editor. For editors, I'm fine with vim, but lately I've been using Atom. I also recently tried Visual Studio Code, which is surprisingly good. My company's server's are mainly self-hosted, but we also have some AWS and Google cloud stuff.

    Are you entertained?

  23. JavaScript vs Java? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm thinking to use JavaScript to construct a bootstrap compiler with the help of some compiler tools as jison, ...

    JavaScript is an ugly programming language but simple for building some small things.

    When a programmer is programming a project in JavaScript, he does warn of the dangers of committing some erratas as the mistaken variable/attribute name, the wrong type or the loss of number accuracy (causing an erroneous rounded number or the wrong numeric condition).

  24. The author is confused by packrat0x · · Score: 1

    Java is a programming language. Javascript and Python are scripting languages.

    --
    227-3517
    1. Re:The author is confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      YOU are confused, because:

      a) scripting languages are programming languages, and
      b) both JavaScript and Python can be used in non-scripting contexts.

      Python is no more a scripting language than BASIC is.

    2. Re:The author is confused by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      What, in reality, is the difference?

      Does "programming language" mean a "compiled" language? If so, Java doesn't fit this description, unless you count byte-code, which is not native to the processor. The only modern compiled languages these days are C and C++.

      Does "scripting language" mean one that is interpreted as it is executed? If so, Javascript isn't always interpreted at runtime. This depends on the environment. Web browsers these days are compiling Javascript to WebAssembly, which is as close to "compiled" as Java and C#.

      What constitutes a "programming" language? Isn't it any language that can be used to program a computer? If so, all scripting languages fit into this category.

    3. Re:The author is confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'll bite. All three are programming languages. Javascript and Python have quick enough write-execute times that they can be very effective as scripting languages. I do know someone who uses Java for scripting tasks, however, because they're most familiar with it. General purpose languages are general purpose. Who knew?

    4. Re:The author is confused by packrat0x · · Score: 1

      Programming languages' primary feature is creating independent programs and APIs.
      Scripting languages' primary feature is using APIs to move data between independent programs. Some scrpting languages can be (mis)used as programming languages, but this comes with horrible performance penalties.

      --
      227-3517
    5. Re:The author is confused by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      What is an "independent program"? A command line executable? Maybe that's how Linux developers think. But in the real world, "programs" are never independent. Can Javascript be used to create a command line program? Yes. Is that a misuse of the language? On what basis?

      Javascript is, by far, the most popular language for building APIs. These are more commonly known as REST APIs. Is this a misuse of the language? Again, on what basis?

      Performance used to be an issue for Javascript, until Google came along and amped up performance by orders of magnitude. By contrast, I've seen many Java applications with terrible performance. Overall, in my experience, performance in any language is most closely tied to the amount of work put into tuning.

      To me, it seems your definitions are a bit outdated. The days of "independent programs" and hard lines between types of languages, are a thing of the past.

    6. Re:The author is confused by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      Are you aware that the Linux operating system has been implemented in Javscript, and will run in your browser?

      https://bellard.org/jslinux/

      How can one NOT recognize this as real programming! Performance, as you can see, is not bad.

    7. Re:The author is confused by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A programming language is any language that lets you write a program (interpreted or compiled, native or not) that solves a problem or fills a need.

      Turing completeness matters. Basically if you have variables and flow control, you can implement just about any logic from any other language. Emscripten is a great example of this - it blurs the line between platform and language.

  25. The Problem with Java in the Enterprise is... by Casandro · · Score: 1

    that it's a single vendor standard. Should Oracle get bust or loose interest, you have a problem. Even if Oracle doesn't loose interest there are already widely diverging versions of Java. For example a Java 8 compiler won't even compile Java 2k code.

    1. Re:The Problem with Java in the Enterprise is... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      For example a Java 8 compiler won't even compile Java 2k code.
      And why would it? Java2k is a language like brainfuck, just made for fun and nerdyness.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    2. Re:The Problem with Java in the Enterprise is... by Casandro · · Score: 1

      Well I'd put all the many Java dialects into that category.

  26. Re:Right With Three Wrongs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dominate those that nominate docile wackos with greasy tacos in small placos. Yule thank me later. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  27. Only if you're a script kiddie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Serious programmers use a REAL language. Assembly, C, C++, FORTRAN, COBOL, FORTH, etc.

    Web developers and other script writers use Javascript, Java, Python, etc.

    If it does not produce runnable native binaries on multiple platforms/architectures it's NOT a programming language.

    I'm currently not even classifying things like Swift as serious programming languages yet; It still seems mighty limited to Apples (and Linux?). Ruby? Rust? Well, let's consider: Can you use it to make a binary that can be burned into ROM and boot an embedded system? Alternatively, can you use it for native apps on multiple desktop (or bigger) architectures? If not, it's a boutique toy.

    1. Re:Only if you're a script kiddie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If it does not produce runnable native binaries on multiple platforms/architectures it's NOT a programming language.

      Ok, so LISP is not a programming language. Got it.

      Nice to know you can just pull an arbitrary definition out of your ass when needed.

  28. A certain mindset for APL (and CDC assembler) by eric_harris_76 · · Score: 1

    Well, it does require a certain mindset.

    I was already partway there, as a CDC 6000 assembly language programmer.

    Because the words were wide and jumps were expensive and the instruction set included many boolean and integer arithmetic instructions, things that seemed to call for a loop could often be done faster without one. Deleting trailing blanks from a string (provided it fit into a word) could be done by masking selected bits, shifting temporary results, masking temporary results, adding/subtracting, and then doing a final mask to trim the trailing blanks off. (I do NOT recall any of the details.)

    Turning trailing nulls into blanks was done much the same way.

    Or perhaps there was only one "COMMON DECK" for this. (A paleolithic "include" file.) If you needed to do the other operation, just XOR the bits with a word of blanks, do the provided operation, then XOR the result again with the word of blanks. Ta da!

    APL is like that, only more so. And with other odd things.

    --
    There's no time like the present. Well, the past used to be.
    1. Re:A certain mindset for APL (and CDC assembler) by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      You wouldn't happen to be familiar with the Von Neuman S machine ?

      A Turing complete machine with only one instruction.

  29. nobrains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope they don't gather this information from their crappy, bloated software

  30. And all the crackers and criminals... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...are so glad the these two most insecure languages rules the Web! Thank you, Oracle!

  31. Yes. Using the tools for the job. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I use vim for most quick coding. Geany if a need an "IDE". The OS is my IDE most of the time.

    I code in bash and perl5 most of the time the last 15 yrs, but did the Android-version of Java for about a year. Hated it. Perl webapps are much easier and fast. I generally use Dancer as the framework for simple apps. Did Ruby for a few years. Love the language, hate the performance and gems. Prior that that, it was mostly C++ because I was a cross-platform developer 14 platforms. C++ was really the only choice.

    I don't track my sleep and don't use an alarm clock except when travelling. Guess I get 6-7 hrs a day. I will nap around 2p a few times a week. Naturally a morning person and wake up around 5am. I've been this way my entire life, except during teen and college years when over 8, sometimes 10 hrs of sleep was needed.

    I drink tea, lemonade, & water when coding. Used to live on Diet MtnDew and coffee. Stopped drinking coffee around 2007.

    I'll listen to all sorts of music when coding or have some mindless sport on a 3rd monitor. Australian Football has caught my attention recently, but I don't really watch any sports with full concentration except springboard diving. If I need to concentrate the music will be Spanish guitar or Gregorian Chants or Windham Hill stuff. Most of the time, it is 70s-80s rock. I like jazz that isn't improvised. Hate rap. Pop-country can work for testing and building installers.

  32. actually, I'm just trying to filter out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    all the stuff other people are extracting from their posteriors.

    Just how widespread is LISP? How useful is it to the overall community of programmers?

    There must be hundreds of special little boutique coding languages, but things that are used less than FORTH are not really serious; they may very well be terrific in some little niche, but they are of no real or practical utility to most serious coders or most serious projects. The article did not imply popularity of nich languages, to the contrary, it broadly pretended to compare general programming language popularity.

    1. Re:actually, I'm just trying to filter out by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you are just trying to paint JS and Python as 'scripting' languages (when they are general-purpose languages), only to demean them because you use REAL languages since you are a REAL programmer.

      I can tell you've never built a significant Web app in JavaScript or you would not say it's just a scripting language. Some Web apps are every bit as complex and sophisticated as any desktop app written in C or C++. It takes actual programming skills to write that kind of software; the fact that it runs in a browser is a niggling detail.