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It's 2018 and USB Type-C Is Still a Mess (androidauthority.com)
An anonymous reader shares a column: USB Type-C was billed as the solution for all our future cable needs, unifying power and data delivery with display and audio connectivity, and ushering in an age of the one-size-fits-all cable. Unfortunately for those already invested in the USB Type-C ecosystem, which is anyone who has bought a flagship phone in the past couple of years, the standard has probably failed to live up to the promises. Even the seemingly most basic function of USB Type-C -- powering devices -- has become a mess of compatibility issues, conflicting proprietary standards, and a general lack of consumer information to guide purchasing decisions. The problem is that the features supported by different devices aren't clear, yet the defining principle of the USB Type-C standard makes consumers think everything should just work.
The charging example clearly demonstrates a very common frustration with the standard as it currently stands. Moving phones between different chargers, even of the same current and voltage ratings, often won't produce the same charging speeds. Furthermore, picking a third party USB Type-C cable to replace the typically too short included cable can result in losing fast charging capabilities.
The charging example clearly demonstrates a very common frustration with the standard as it currently stands. Moving phones between different chargers, even of the same current and voltage ratings, often won't produce the same charging speeds. Furthermore, picking a third party USB Type-C cable to replace the typically too short included cable can result in losing fast charging capabilities.
Yet another example of products going out the door while a spec is still in flux -- you get a random collection of things which do and don't work.
This is why being the first adopter of most tech is a dumb idea, because that first generation is going to be shit.
I'm long since over giving a damn about being on the cutting edge, because that edge cuts in more than one direction.
When you plug a cheap offbrand charging cable into your device, the USB-C standard signals this by emitting a blue flash and burning your device to a crisp. This feature has proven less popular with users than was at first envisioned.
However a USB Cable I got in 1998 will still work with a USB 3 port on my laptop 20 years later.
The general rule of thumb of modern computing is if the connector fits, then it should work. (There are exceptions such cross over cables, and some serial connectors over RJ-45) If that port is a female, three rows, and 15 pins, then that is VGA port, if the device I get from a reputable source has that pin out, and I plug it into my computer, the device should work off of it.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I still don't like the fragile tongue inside a USB socket. Why have a relatively easy to break connector on a hard to repair $500 device. Apple got it right. The lightning connector socket on iDevices is a simple hole and is relatively indestructible.
This is almost a textbook example for the "Second System Effect" (Brooks). They put in everything and the kitchen sink. That is about the worst fail in engineering that you can have and still (seemingly) have a specification that looks like it may be possible to implement. Whoever designed this completely forgot that KISS is the prime directive for any form of engineering that needs to work.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Is this whole mess ultimately due to companies trying to charge too much for licenses to their proprietary charging technology?
The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
Just last week I plugged a model 3 Tesla into a supercharger. It soaked up electrons at the rate of 120 kW. 300 Amp at 480 v or something insane. And while Tessie is drinking 11 kW in the garage 48 Amp at 240 v, to store enough energy to run the whole house for three days, the cell phone struggles to store 2300 mAh in one hour, enough to run one dinky little phone for 18 hours.....
What a mess...
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Crossover is (mostly) fixed by automatic MDI/MDI-X detection in GbE. Has been a while since I ran into that problem. I do fully agree though. The problem is that the USB-C spec tries to do _everything_, and that cannot work. It is also a stellar example of a really bad design done by smart, but inexperienced engineers. Or by engineers that ignored their experience because they were part of a committee. Kiss rules all engineering that needs to survive in practice. There is no KISS at all in USB-C.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Chief, in my opinion, amongst its many problems is that it's a standard without any form of independent regulatory or licensing body to render verdict on the thousands of devices out there are "compliant" or "not compliant". When I was still doing hardware development, no one wanted to touch USB, it is such a nest of hard problems and impossible solutions. Even things as simple as memory keys might, or might not work on a given host controller and/or with a given version of an operating system. Most of them provably did not obey the electrical spec (pirate code?), but that's ok because most laptops out there did not either, creating some fun and dangerous scenarios which I'm not going to outline here.
And the electrical spec was at least simple to read. The protocol and software spec is much more involved and implementations varied even more wildly.
At the core USB is like it is to ensure a wide ecosystem of cheap components that was all inclusive, and could be easy made in any cheap shop in China. Possibly this is good, in that it ensures access to small and large outfits equally, and in a place like china where one US cent is a big deal, it let everyone in. On the other hand, sometimes that corner you cut shouldn't have been cut and while the device may "work" it doesn't actually work as intended, across the board. And so other standards would require you have your device tested and certified, and made to work as intended. That doesn't really exist for USB. People throw the logo on and launch their stuff out there without any consideration. Then when it doesn't work, they say it's not compatible with X or Y. To a customer, we're left with "what the fuck, is it USB or not?".
Input devices like keyboards, mice, trackballs and drawing tablets are USB1.
It sucks to plug your laptop in to your $250+ USB-C docking station then have the battery die before the end of the day since most high-end laptops need more power than that.
The standard was set by the same morons who brought you "USB high speed" vs "USB full speed". To this day, I still don't know off the top of my head which one is USB 1.1 and which USB 2.0. I always have to google it.
In addition to all the madness with charging, they also screwed up the USB 3.x nomenclature. We had a golden opportunity here to leave USB 3.0 referring to USB-A ports (add an extra revision for higher speeds), and have USB 3.1 ref to USB-C ports. That way if you saw USB 3.0 in the specs, you'd know it was a type A port. If you saw USB 3.1 in the specs, you'd know it was a type -C.
Instead they decided to rename USB 3.0 as USB 3.1. So if you see just "USB 3.1" it's referring to a older USB-A style port. If you see "USB 3.1 type C" it's referring to a USB-C port. Unless of course the manufacturer decides to omit "type C" and just call it USB 3.1 in the specs which it's actually a USB-C port. I've had to resort to looking up laptop reviews and viewing pictures of the ports on the sides to confirm exactly what ports it has and doesn't have.
It's like they intentionally trying to make it more confusing.
It looks like everything performs and interoperates according to spec. It seems like a bonus that when you buy premium hardware with proprietary features, it performs even better.
so apple can sell $29.99 adapters
apple missed it up with too few ports when 1 is needed for power.
Who was talking about Apple?
And you think FOUR USB-C/TB 3 Ports is too few?!?
USB Type-C equipped devices can also be limited to USB 2.0 speeds.
Apple's first MacBook with USB-C/TB had only one port. The Pro's that came out a couple years later had 4.
I've had very little problems getting USB 2.0 or 3.0 speeds over most USB 1.1 cables under 6 feet in length.
Really? Your USB 1.1 cables have the extra pins necessary for USB 3.0 speeds?
Stop lying.
"And it's going to be slow and shitty because it's USB 1... so what's even the point of that?"
I have lots of stuff from 2000 that still work fine... barcode scanners, label printers, lego mindstorms, its nice its not a hassle to use them... well it is with USB-C only devices, but most laptops from sensible vendors still have USB-A ports.
USB 3, like PCIe, uses multiple serial lanes for increased bandwidth. Each lane is entirely independent with its own synchronization and clock, which is what makes it still a "serial" connection by definition, not a "parallel" connection.
They cut off that part of the footage because the rocket crashed
love is just extroverted narcissism
This comment documents you've never used USB-C in your life.
The USB-C connector is what USB should have been from the start. Yes, PD (Power delivery) is optional and you have to be a smart consumer. And it's been knowledge for years now that cheap chinese OEM's were producing non-standard compliant cables and devices that could actively harm compliant devices because the cables and chargers did not meet the spec. That's not USB's fault.
Most of those problems are behind the standard. People also forget that it takes a LONG time for new USB standards to become dominant, USB itself took a decade to become commonplace. USB mini and micro took similar time frames and we aren't anywhere near 10 years yet for USB-C.
Frankly having moved most of my devices to USB-C I love the standard. I don't have to worry about orientation when plugging it in and dealing with the quantum effect where you always have to flip over the USB connector twice to get it to plug in. Not only that but USB-C is the most durrable connector the USB committee has ever approved. And on top of that the Power delivery spec was integrated into the main spec and made standard. In addition the spec has legs in that it can be expanded for increased data transfer much easier than past standards without changing the connector.
USB-C is a god send.
I admit to not looking at these things closely. However, all of my devices now have USB-C and I find it very convenient. I haven't noticed any charging time issues, but I haven't really been paying attention. Maybe for the casual user (most of us), USB-C has worked pretty well?
Not to mention that USB 1.1, USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 are not equivalent to a specific speed. Rather, USB 1.1 specifies low speed (1.5Mbit/s) and full speed (12Mbit/s), USB 2.0 adds high speed (480Mbit/s), and USB 3.0 adds superspeed (5.0Gbit/s). But you can very well have e.g. a USB 2.0-compliant device that works only at full speed.
I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.
USB-C is a god send.
Well, there is the problem.
We're all athiests.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Is this a null-modem cable?
Is this a cross-over cable?
Is this a TTL device?
Is this 5V, 3.3V, 1.8V, 9V, -11 V?
Except now:
Is this a charge cable or a data cable?
Can it support USB 3.1?
Can this port support Thunderbolt? WTF Apple.. how did this end up as part of USB3.. and why don't all your ports support it?
Is this a hub or a power passthrough adapter?
Can I buy a hub?
Can I buy a hub for less than $200?
How do I search for a fucking hub?
again non-Apple-users educating everyone what a fail Apple products are.
If only they could fail once in their life so successfully as Apple does...
MBP user here, travelling very happy with two ports and a tiny USB-C to -A / HDMI Adaptor bought for €10. Every external device I use works fine and the stuff I carry is greatly reduced. Maybe because I didn't buy the cheapest Chinese cables / power banks / chargers ?
You really should have a look inside a USB 3.0 plug some time. Besides the four regular USB 1.x/2.x contacts up front there are five new contacts further in.
While having a poka-yoke connector is good, what made USB 1 so successful was that it was simpler and cheaper than the competitors. The Apple dock connector had 30 pins, including dedicated pins for audio, video, power, media control, serial, usb, and firewire. RS232 had 9 and had no error correction, no metadata, no power, and was slow. Firewire with a lean 6-pins allowed for bidirectional communications and was essentially a peer-to-peer network. USB had a mere 4 pins, was unidirectional, and didn't require the devices to know how to talk to each other (hence the need for a hub). It was technically inferior, but won because of price. USB2 merely improve the speed and power of USB1, so it was a no brainer to win in the market.
USB 3 abandoned the simplicity that made USB 1 and 2 successful. It took the kitchen sink model, and it is flailing the same way it's predecessors did when they took that approach.
Perhaps the ugliest plug in creation, but impressive how it finesses USB 1/2 compatibility. Impressive in a horrific kind of way.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
Why would 'scientist' imply 'atheist'?
CLI paste? paste.pr0.tips!
Not only that but USB-C is the most durrable connector
It's hurr durrable.
I miss RS-232 where you didn't need a 'stack' and layers of protocol to get hardware to communicate. But plain old serial isn't DRM-compatible.
Logic, intolerance of many religious people to ideas that touch on their 'beliefs'. Programmers have to test their hypothesis over and over again, they can't just believe, at least in the domain of their code. I think this tends to select for skeptical types. I remember in probably kindergarten when I asked "so if god created us, who created god"? Silence greeted me, finally told "we don't ask that question". Sure, I'm generalizing, many people can separate science and logic from religious thought or are comfortable separating them. Some of my friends are even religious. /s
My wife broke the USB-A tongues on most of the USB ports in the Dell Latitude. So I got cheap and ordered a replacement subassembly board for the Latitude second hand on eBay. The first one I ordered arrived... with a broken-tongue connector on it.
The USB-C connector is what USB should have been from the start. Yes, PD (Power delivery) is optional and you have to be a smart consumer. And it's been knowledge for years now that cheap chinese OEM's were producing non-standard compliant cables and devices that could actively harm compliant devices because the cables and chargers did not meet the spec. That's not USB's fault.
Would those be USB 2.0, USB 3.1, USB 3.1 Gen 2, USB Full Featured, USB Superspeed, USB Superspeed+ or Thunderbolt3 USB-C cables that you are talking about?
I only listed three different types of cables there but they are all different markings and symbols which are commonly used. Apart from the symbol on the plug all the cables are of course identical. Then add power delivery and PD variants of the logos. Non-compliant cables are yet another but relatively small issue, though the ones that carry the compliance logos and slide into the supply chain can be scary.
When people get confused the better solution is not to say that they aren't smart enough, but consider if there are issues with the product.
That's funny. I've had just the opposite experience with type C. The only device I've had with type C was my Nexus 5X. After a few months the connector became so loose that I couldn't hold the phone and charge it without pushing the connector into the phone constantly. Eventually the data part wouldn't connect at all. It died after two years for unrelated reasons. But I never had connection problems like that with any phone using Micro USB, including my current one which has a micro port in the same place as the Nexus had the type C port.
(T>t && O(n)--) == sqrt(666)
What's the point in having thinner laptops if we need to carry adapters around?
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