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Linux 4.18 Preparing Many New Features While Dropping 100k+ Lines of Code (phoronix.com)

Posted by msmash on from the up-next dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Linux 4.18 development is going strong with recent 4.18-rc1 release. This kernel cycle has dropped 107,210 lines of code so far but Linux 4.18 is adding many new features. The kernel is coming in lighter as a result of the LustreFS code being removed and other code cleanups. On the feature front, Phoronix reports, "ew AMDGPU support improvements, mainlining of the V3D DRM driver, initial open-source work on NVIDIA Volta GV100 hardware, merging of the Valve Steam Controller kernel driver, merging of the BPFILTER framework, ARM Spectre mitigation work, Speck file-system encryption support, removal of the Lustre file-system, the exciting restartable sequences system call was merged, the new DM writecache target, and much more."

105 comments

  1. mainlining by descil · · Score: 1

    Yeah man, gimme another hit of that v3d drm

    1. Re:mainlining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The phrase "V3D DRM driver" refers to a driver named "V3D" that outputs to Linux's Direct Rendering Manager.

      Basically V3D is the graphics driver for Broadcom hardware, such as Raspberry Pi. So getting this driver in the mainline kernel is a very good thing.

    2. Re:mainlining by descil · · Score: 1

      *sighs* yeah man. i was joking about how the kernel is called "mainline" and thus features get "mainlined." Mainlining is a drug term appropriated for the kernel. Arguments claiming that mainline is a plumbing or railway term are false: that term is "main line," and it's not a term that needs definition, it means what it says, the main (most used) line. Nothing to do with the word "mainline." And yet the kernel is called mainline.

      Additionally using the TLA "DRM" in your device driver is the kind of horrible idea someone could only come up with while having some of that sweet sweet black juice running through their veins.

      Furthermore calling it V3D is extremely misleading, as it's not a 3d driver, nor is it virtual reality.

      So all in all it seemed like a good opportunity to call out all of these idiocies appearing at once. But thanks to you the joke is ruined. Congratulations.

    3. Re:mainlining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awww, I don't want to be like those microsoft people and be mean

      You my linux brutha from anotha mutha

    4. Re:mainlining by descil · · Score: 1

      :)

    5. Re:mainlining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why the hell are you screwing with the default font?

    6. Re:mainlining by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      /*change fixed font comments*/
      #commentlisting [id^="comment_body_"]>tt{font-family:Georgia!important}

      so fucking hard to do

  2. Lustre dead? by afidel · · Score: 3, Interesting

    With Intel shutting down their commercial support business last year and now LustreFS being removed from the mainline kernel is Lustre dead as a common solution? What is replacing it as a scalable FS in HPC applications?

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    1. Re: Lustre dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about. It's not dead

    2. Re:Lustre dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Glusterfs

    3. Re:Lustre dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The Lustre devs basically never played nice with the Linux Kernel devs, and Lustre never left the STAGING sub-section of the Linux Kernel because they never (in almost a decade) cleaned up the code to pass Linux Kernel code reviews.

      Lustre's most recent full release was just this last April, it's very much under heavy development, but in the HPC world having your code 'upstream' is basically a non-issue because they're used to having to do a million minor adjustments to eek out another 1% performance, since at the scale of computing they're doing that tiny improvement makes a noticeable difference. They don't run 'out of the box' Linux distros compared to a web-server or the like.

      - WolfWings, too lazy to login to /. in far too long.

    4. Re:Lustre dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > in the HPC world having your code 'upstream' is basically a non-issue because they're used to having to do a million minor adjustments

      Yeah, but not having your code up to upstream standards ALWAYS is a huge warning sign and risk.
      It's not always a real issue, but still something to be worried about.

    5. Re:Lustre dead? by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 2

      The Lustre devs basically never played nice with the Linux Kernel devs, and Lustre never left the STAGING sub-section of the Linux Kernel because they never (in almost a decade) cleaned up the code to pass Linux Kernel code reviews.

      This is a major downside of the "everything in the same source tree" Linux philosophy.

      In a different universe, we could have pluggable filesystem modules that could be built against each kernel source[1] without having to get it all into the same tree. If the kernel API changed, the FS devs would have to adapt to be compatible, but at least they wouldn't have to fight with the maintainers and the maintainers wouldn't have to be bothered by their patches. It wouldn't solve a technical problem -- after all, the build system hardly gives two shits where the source comes from -- but it would solve a major human problem.

      Oh well, we can dream right?

      [1] Specifically not wanting ABI compatibility here. First, because down that road madness lies and second because it's not too much to ask that FS developers recompile when the kernel changes and adopt changing API. It also cuts off the crazy assertion that pluggable modules would stagnate the kernel code. It would, unless we just stipulate that kernel changes are absolutely allows to break any plugin and that the plugin has no right to a stable API.

      This doesn't replace in-tree, by the way. If a contributor and the maintainer agree, then by all means put it in-tree and be done with it. This is even beneficial for the contributor because it means that anyone changing the API must go and fix/shim all his code.

    6. Re:Lustre dead? by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      I have recently switched to this over NFS very recently. Native fault tolerance is a good thing!

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    7. Re:Lustre dead? by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 1

      The problem with pluggable filesystem modules is that we still have a lot of innovation to do in the low-level kernel handling of I/O, thus the interface remains in flux. Significant performance gains have been realized and more are possible, and architecture for systems with significantly greater parallelism is still in progress. Taking advantage of new hardware capabilities has also required changes in interfaces.

      One of the unique things about Linux is that the developers are allowed to innovate. It's a feature, not a bug.

      I, for one, wouldn't really want a filesystem that hadn't passed review by the kernel team.

      --
      Bruce Perens.
    8. Re:Lustre dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't we already have something like this with Linux kernel Modules e.g. FUSE NTFS?

    9. Re:Lustre dead? by sjames · · Score: 1

      We have that now. You build your out of tree module and then modprobe it.

    10. Re:Lustre dead? by DamnOregonian · · Score: 1

      I compile modules out-of-tree all the time....
      Never a filesystem module, I'll admit, but they can function fine as a module afaik... Am I wrong?

    11. Re:Lustre dead? by Guy+Smiley · · Score: 1

      Lustre is most definitely *not* dead. The removal from staging was a bit of an unfortunate event, but work on getting it cleaned up for re-submission to the kernel is continuing.

    12. Re:Lustre dead? by MAXOMENOS · · Score: 2
      The Register suggests that other FS's can pick up the slack. Quoting:

      When Lustre emerged in the year 2003 it had little competition for creation of large-scale filesystems. Nearly 15 years on and Red Hat offers Gluster, IBM’s Spectrum Scale (aka the GPFS General Parallel File System) and scale-out NFS can all do plenty of what made Lustre useful. HDFS has emerged, too, for big data workloads.

      Source: Linux literally loses its Lustre – HPC filesystem ditched in new kernel. The Register, 18 Jun 2018 at 01:29

      --
      Finding God in a Dog
    13. Re:Lustre dead? by nctritech · · Score: 1

      https://www.mjmwired.net/kerne...

      Executive Summary: You think you want a stable kernel interface, but you really do not, and you don't even know it. What you want is a stable running driver, and you get that only if your driver is in the main kernel tree. You also get lots of other good benefits if your driver is in the main kernel tree, all of which has made Linux into such a strong, stable, and mature operating system which is the reason you are using it in the first place.

    14. Re: Lustre dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You just described ZFS on Linux, you dumb cuck. It's a pluggable module that resides outside of the kernel tree.

    15. Re:Lustre dead? by afidel · · Score: 2

      He's wrong, I prefer a stable API, unstable APIs and bad vendors is why we have the mess we do with Android and why Treble is the kinda solution, by freezing on a LTSR kernel they've effectively created an artificially stable API which they backport everything else around. In an idealized world, yes I'd love to have every driver in mainline so that everything gets updated together and the kernel devs were free to monkey with things to their hearts content, in the real world I live in a stable API allows vendors to dump a driver once and for it to be usable for a decade or more (see most Windows drivers from Vista still working on 10 today).

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    16. Re:Lustre dead? by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      Indeed. So I would stipulate that the kernel is absolutely allowed to break the plugin API at any point for any reason.

      It would be courteous to announce those on some list in advance, but that's all I would even ask those guys to provide.

    17. Re:Lustre dead? by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      I disagree. Stable API are good. Being able to innovate at all layers is good.

      My $0.02 is that you should avoid breaking it, but sometimes you gotta. When Windows moved to the new graphics model, they broke a ton of shit. But they also greatly improved platform stability.

    18. Re:Lustre dead? by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      An interface that you can change at will, provided you change everything that calls it, doesn't really deserve the moniker "interface". It's just a bunch of function calls that can change whenever you want. The entire point of interfaces is to divide development tasks using them, so that one does not have to have everything in the same source tree.

    19. Re:Lustre dead? by sjames · · Score: 1

      That's what LTS kernels are for. Unless you have a compelling reason, you shouldn't be updating every time Linus releases a kernel. Instead, wait for your distro to backport any critical fixes.

    20. Re:Lustre dead? by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      Can does not imply should.

      My view on things was that the kernel devs should be entitled to change the API and that the plugin vendors should not be entitled to complain about the API change. This was meant only to pre-resolve any dispute over who is responsible for breakage.

      Given the good reputation of kernel devs, I expect they. would not do so for light and transient reasons, but would change the API when there was a good reason to. It would be stable enough, but power to decide when improvements require a rework would lie with them.

    21. Re:Lustre dead? by _merlin · · Score: 1

      Repeating it doesn't make it true. Having a module in the main kernel tree only guarantees it will continue to build, because there's no way for the kernel maintainers to actually test drivers for often esoteric and expensive peripherals, specialised filesystems, or other unusual use-cases. I do want stable kernel ABIs, so drivers continue to work and I'm not at the mercy of people having to play constant catch-up when things are shuffled.

    22. Re:Lustre dead? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Linux is truly lack lustre now.

    23. Re:Lustre dead? by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      In a different universe, we could have pluggable filesystem modules that could be built against each kernel source[1] without having to get it all into the same tree.

      We have that in this universe.

      If the kernel API changed, the FS devs would have to adapt to be compatible, but at least they wouldn't have to fight with the maintainers and the maintainers wouldn't have to be bothered by their patches. It wouldn't solve a technical problem -- after all, the build system hardly gives two shits where the source comes from -- but it would solve a major human problem.

      Oh well, we can dream right?

      You don't have to dream, you can have this right now with ZFS on Linux. And several other filesystems too. It works, there's nothing actually "wrong" with it, but it's a lot less desirable than you think.

      Almost every time there's a new kernel release, the ZFS modules won't compile against it. There's usually a delay of a few days to a few weeks before ZoL is patched to compile with the new kernel.

      It's a minor hassle, but an annoying one. The features offered by ZFS are more than worth the hassle.

      The solution is to not install new kernels until you know for sure that ZFS is updated to work with them.

      In debian terms, 'apt-mark hold' the linux-image-* and linux-headers-* packages so that an apt upgrade wont auto-upgrade them. Upgrade them manually with 'apt-get install' after the zfs-dkms & spl-dkms & other packages have been upgraded, and then remember to hold them with apt-mark again.

      IMO it's best to also hold all the ZFS-related packages too, and manually upgrade them immediately before manually upgrading the kernel. Then hold them again. Otherwise you could end up with the userland portions of zfs (libs and zfs/zpool/etc utils) that are different (and possibly incompatible) versions to what is running in the kernel. Mostly harmless, most of the time, but not something I want to do with fileystems that contain the bulk of my files.

  3. Finally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    a nice GUI to replace that dreadful console

    1. Re:Finally by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a nice GUI to replace that dreadful console

      Get your fuckin hands off the kernel Lennard.. Sorry, "Lennart". We're still cleaning up your last mass.

  4. Causing more problems down the line by xack · · Score: 1

    By removing features from kernels you force people to either use older kernels or force them to back port back to the current kernels. This creates a mess of patches and security holes. With Linux deployments now in the billions due to Android it is a bad idea to remove features as someone is using it somewhere.

    1. Re:Causing more problems down the line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      In this case what was removed was mostly components in the staging sub-section that had been there for years (over half a decade in many cases) but hadn't completed appreciable work towards exiting the Staging sub-section. So they're finally getting the boot back out of kernel since they had never graduated to 'full kernel support' due to lack of action on their devs part. Lustre in particular basically stopped contributing to the staging branch since they felt it slowed them down too much versus working on their out-of-tree version of the code instead.

    2. Re:Causing more problems down the line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By removing features from kernels you force people to either use older kernels or force them to back port back to the current kernels.

      You don't keep dead weight around either for features that are not getting maintained. In this case, lustre wasn't really getting
      updates pushed into the main tree correctly. Anyone who relies on lustre is already using an out of tree module anyways, as the in kernel stuff you didn't want to use anyways.

      For production level systems, you use one of the long term stable kernels, so you wouldn't have any real surprises anyways.

      With Linux deployments now in the billions due to Android

      If someone is using lustre on an Android device, they've got bigger problems...

    3. Re:Causing more problems down the line by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With all those people using lustrefs surely one of them can step up and get address the issues and get it merged?
      They can't?
      Well what the fuck are we talking about then?

  5. bug remaining? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can I tell if the bug that was crashing Ryzen processors at idle has been fixed?

    In 4,15, Ryzen users had to put in a boot option

      "rcu_nocbs=0-15

    (this case for 8 cores =0-11 for a six core...)

    1. Re:bug remaining? by bmimatt · · Score: 1

      Have a similar problem/question. Need Ryzen support for a Dell Insipron 1700. Just spent a weekend trying to get it to work, ending up frustrated/disappointed. Can anyone shed some light on the Ryzen support?

    2. Re:bug remaining? by SiChemist · · Score: 2

      I thought I had that bug, but It was fixed by switching wireless PCI cards. The ATH9K driver was the culprit on my system.

      It was pretty weird because the symptoms were the same-- Only crash at idle or near idle. As long as the CPU was under heavy load, the system ran flawlessly. I tried everything I could find online to mitigate it including the "rcu_nocbs=0-15" parameter.

      I finally noticed some ath9k messages in the logs near the time of the crash, so I bought an intel PCI wireless adapter and replaced my old one. Haven't had a crash since (that I recall). This system is up 24/7 except for kernel updates and is running Xubuntu 18.04 now. (It was on Xubuntu 16.04 at the time of the problems and my solution).

      --
      God is imaginary
    3. Re:bug remaining? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have an Asus Prime 370-Pro board and a Ryzen 1700X. The -

      rcu_nocbs=0-11

      inserted boot time fixes it for me, 98 days up-time so far.
      Where before it would crash at idle 1-2x per day.

      That is added to a 4.15 kernel.

    4. Re: bug remaining? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      Unless you tried a known good Atheros chip based NIC of the same model and manufacturer you don't know if it was a driver issue or a hardware issue. Most of the times my drivers were "having issues" it turned out to be hardware issues. That obviously doesn't mean this isn't a driver issue either.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    5. Re:bug remaining? by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      What is it about deleting reams of code that arouses me? This is a story I can cheer.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    6. Re: bug remaining? by SiChemist · · Score: 1

      Late reply, but this Atheros card came out of the predecessor of my Ryzen machine (Intel core i5). It worked in that setup without issue with the same OS.

      After I replaced the wireless card in my Ryzen machine, I switched my old Atheros card back to the Intel computer where it works flawlessly.

      --
      God is imaginary
    7. Re: bug remaining? by SiChemist · · Score: 1

      Almost forgot-- Unloading the ath9k kernel module without replacing the hardware also solved the problem.

      --
      God is imaginary
  6. Those ridges are stoney and bristol... by cre1mer · · Score: 1

    The older AMD Stoney Ridge and Bristol Ridge AMD APUs finally have temperature reporting support.

    Stoney Ridge is old. Bristol Ridge is available on AMD's newest platform, AM4.

    --
    Goodbye, Slashdot!
    1. Re:Those ridges are stoney and bristol... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stoney Ridge is in laptops that you can still buy with names like A9-9210 or A9-9410. It's basically a single channel dual core version of Bristol Ridge available on no socket (soldered to motherboard)
      Both have AMD graphics that were the first to be support by the amdgpu driver. (same as Radeon R9 285, R9 380 and Fury)

  7. Speck file-system encryption?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You mean the one created by the NSA? That Speck?

    GTFO.

    https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2013/07/simon_and_speck.html

    1. Re:Speck file-system encryption?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know, as soon as NSA gets mentioned we all freak out, fucking PRISM program, also, fucking constitutional violation which really should have turned into a civil war, not sure why it did not.

      However, almost all encryption technologies we use come from the NSA, I hate to say it, but there it is. SHA through SHA-512 was all NSA, the TLS security we utilize for HTTPS was partially from NSA technology.

      Aside from this though HIP HIP HOORAY FOR LINUX!!! As this wonderful operating system which rekindled my joy and love of computers continues to evolve and advance all while maintaining its dignity and honor I cannot help but to be in awe of it. It shows us the way towards what should be our computing future vs the future we are actively beginning to have an allergic reaction to.

    2. Re:Speck file-system encryption?? by sjames · · Score: 1

      But be careful, the NSA also provided advice to NIST that resulted in significantly weakening their crypto standards.

    3. Re:Speck file-system encryption?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that SHA is a hash, not an encryption scheme. Further the US government has already demonstrated that it is more important to them that internet traffic is readable rather than secure ala the weak encryption laws of the 90s.

  8. Glad to see it, keep 'em coming/kudos... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: Linux has changed for the better since 1994/1999/2010 times I tried it & so have dev tools for it (no longer crude "stone knives & bearskins", especially in Object Pascal via FreePascal & Lazarus https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12218352&cid=56765500/ )

    * Years ago I told a Microsoft mgt. head (VP of the Windows Performance Division in Foredecker who used to post here) that Linux WOULD catch up (as catchup ball = easier vs. innovation leading by FAR (that's hard when you "peak out"))... it has.

    APK

    P.S.=> I've even turned one of my program's testers (see link above) onto Kubuntu 18.04 + patches & he LOVES it too - about time & as the old Virginia Slims ads said "You've come a LONG WAY baby" (sure has - congrats "Mr. T." & crew - keep it up)... apk

  9. Looks like you still need the bios setting by raymorris · · Score: 1

    It looks like anything you do in the kernel is a workaround rather than a fix. So I wouldn't expect it to be "fixed" in the kernel, since it's not really a kernel problem.

    From what I can gather, until AMD does a firmware fix (or hardware?) the best option is to select "typical current idle" in bios.

    Of course, if the rcu workaround is working for you, you might just leave it at that until AMD really fixes the issue.

  10. You need zenstates by webnut77 · · Score: 4, Informative

    How can I tell if the bug that was crashing Ryzen processors at idle has been fixed?

    In 4,15, Ryzen users had to put in a boot option

    "rcu_nocbs=0-15

    (this case for 8 cores =0-11 for a six core...)

    I had this problem too and the rcu_nocbs=0-15 didn't fix entirely the problem. You need zenstates to turn off the C6 power saving state.
    Here's the systemd unit file:

    [Unit]
    Description=Turn off power saving C6 state

    [Service]
    Type=oneshot
    StandardOutput=syslog
    ExecStart=/usr/bin/python /usr/local/src/ZenStates-Linux-master/zenstates.py --c6-disable

    [Install]
    WantedBy=basic.target

    1. Re: You need zenstates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My grandma will be so pleased to hear about this simple workaround! She thinks Linux is the bee's knees!

    2. Re:You need zenstates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who decided that Linux configuration files should look like Window ini files?

    3. Re:You need zenstates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The person who was given the choice between that or XML. That's who.

    4. Re: You need zenstates by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 0

      Your comment suggests that you have never seen any Linux / Unix configuration files but mistakenly thought you had a great troll. You got it backwards though. The lie that trolls try to sell it that they *aren't* human readable. Better luck next time!

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    5. Re: You need zenstates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better than regedit I say

    6. Re: You need zenstates by sjames · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yes, I'm sure she'd rather see error 0×657EA6556778B4732FFED56546

      That way she can fire up her hex editor and manually patch the Windows kernel to fix the issue.

    7. Re: You need zenstates by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would your grandmad do it manually? Instead of you running a script over SSH, like a COMPUTER user.
      As opposed to a user of fixed-function appliances ... err, I mean applications ... that merely happen to be implemenzed on a computer.

    8. Re:You need zenstates by brantondaveperson · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter. The point is that the file is declarative, not procedural, which prevents the boot sequence from becoming a Turing complete system.

    9. Re: You need zenstates by tepples · · Score: 1

      Why would your grandmad do it manually? Instead of you running a script over SSH, like a COMPUTER user.

      Running a script over SSH doesn't help if the problem is in the computer's networking configuration, or if the computer is behind an ISP that applies carrier-grade network address translation (CGNAT) because it lacks enough IPv4 addresses for all of its home subscribers.

    10. Re:You need zenstates by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      The trend is simplified config files over XML/JSON. So yeah...back to Windows ini files it is.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
  11. Comment vs. "SysAdmin" scriptkiddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I see comments like yours QUITE a lot & KNOW your motives: Per Wayne & Garth in "Waynes World" (while holding a UNIX book no less on Garth's part iirc) - "WE FEAR CHANGE" & why?

    Your "bastardizing things" via non-std. init scripts are in danger - your job security as standards like Poettering's systemd come into play!

    (... & it controls even failed daemons restarting - yes, yes, I know - you can use restart wrappers for that (again non-std. bastardization job security))

    BUT HOW MANY OF YOU ACTUALLY DO CODE YOURSELVES (not stitching others' programs together in batch) vs. using what others like myself in programmers CREATE for you "Seasoned SysAdmin" mere USERS WITH A BETTER PASSWORD (that's all you are) to merely USE?

    NOT the majority of you, period...

    (& that's why you FEAR things that are coming in GUI & things like systemd (& like it or not, GUI's the future (always is, or did DOS win over Windows & WHY DOES X/Wayland, GNome, KDE & xfce exist w/ GUI programs on them then? See what I just said, & I've seen it HAPPEN before as I noted))).

    * Guys like me are coming producing nice easy to use PRETTY GUI TOOLS like it or not - I know, I spent decades developing business enterprise systems of MILLIONS OF LINES of code each that run entire companies Fortune 500 down - 1 click easy, has to be, was what I was told to make so I did!

    Network tools reading from /proc abstractions are on the way out too - not as efficient (some new tools blow but WILL GET BETTER quickly due to using actual network interfaces DIRECT to API vs. reading output pipes as abstractions for data that I just noted too)!

    (... & it's what "Common Folks" PREFER, period, vs. shitty ugly argc/argv based commandline tools OR shitty tty term scripts stitched together from them vs. e.g. https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12218352&cid=56765500/ )

    WHO KNOWS ALL THIS MOST & FAR BETTER THAN I? Mr. Linus Torvalds (hard working programmer, my kind of guy). He dictates HIS creations' future, not you.

    APK

    P.S.=> You "anti-systemd" & "tty term 'ScRyPt-KiDDieZ' mere USERS w/ a better password (& not much more) live in fear (I don't know why though - terminal work & batch scripting will ALWAYS have a place & so will DEEP DOWN config know-how server to endpoint workstations, mainly for large LAN/wAN configuration batchwork) - accept the future IS now & it's always inevitably coming... apk

  12. Re:Comment vs. "SysAdmin" scriptkiddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Let me know when that gui can't load how I interact with it on a shell... better yet let me know when the gui can't load because some core component you were relying on isn't there... or the call to the library has changed enough so that your call bombs out.

    The gui has it's place, it's not on a server. especially when we trim our servers to be the most efficient possible. My recommendation is learn to code gui'less applications, then make a remote call to the application via a secure channel, then you got me listening.

  13. "ew AMDGPU" by TeknoHog · · Score: 4, Funny

    OK, I get it that you're an Nvidia guy, but no need to rub it in my face.

    --
    Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  14. Re:Comment vs. "SysAdmin" scriptkiddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Something something 300 baud serial console. Might take a while for gUI update events to occur.

  15. Re:Comment vs. "SysAdmin" scriptkiddies by sjames · · Score: 2

    No, I'm just tired of squinting at attached screenshots rather than the user with a problem just being able to cut paste 160 characters of text into an email.

    That and clearly telling the user to click on the thing that looks like a squished beetle and they keep clicking on the deformed grasshopper.

    Give us a call after you spend some time maintaining a server you have never actually touched or seen on the other side of the country, then tell us how much you like the gooey interface.

  16. Re:Comment vs. "SysAdmin" scriptkiddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We get it APK you need the PlaySkool version of a computer. I guess it makes sense as that does seem to be your level of understanding. Apparently you still think that sorting a list of strings, eliminating duplicates, and writing it out to a file is impressive work so maybe you should stick with your simple tools and simple ideas. Also spam doesn't work it just makes people hate you.

  17. Can we replace systemd? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Perhaps with something newer and more opaque. I'm thinking we should also move Wayland to pid 1 to stream line the user experience. Linux should be a kernel plus a super-process containing D-Bus, pulseaudio, udevd, init/systemd, Python, busybox/toybox(getty, login), sshd, Wayland, Windows registry, and a calculator bound to a kernel provided hotkey. root filesystem should only have one file in /bin. And because we're such elite programmers our complex software has no bugs, so you will not have to worry about a crashing pid 1.

  18. Re:In other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You shouldn't be dissing Slashdot elastic-neck super hero! His neck elasticity is legendary! He proposed pixar elastic-girl, or was it DC? Anyway their union should be announced soon,,,

  19. Re:slashdot is a showcase for narcissists by samwichse · · Score: 2

    Whoosh

  20. Re:You I'll reply to & why? Ok... apk by sjames · · Score: 2

    You obviously haven't reached a skill level where the significant advantages of text based admin come in. Sometimes enterprise means resilliant and effective, but quite often it means brittle and catering to the lowest common denominator.

    It''s fine if users use a GUI, but the system itself should be text based so a skilled admin has a chance of actually fixing it when it's not working right. Even MS is starting to recognize that.

    As for LAN/WAN, step one when there is a problem is ditch the GUI and get a command line. If you actually understand the network and how the routers work, that will give you the tools you actually need to solve the problem. Use the GUI to check status when things are working well. If you need a picture of a thermometer to know when the temperature is too high, you'be already lost.

  21. UNTRUE & I said so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & PLEASE, be honest w/ yourself as I have been w/ you & "your kind" LIMITING yourselves out of fear for your livelyhoods... me?

    Despite your bs, ask yourself (assuming YOU have been there, doesn't SOUND it) if you need to give devs of enterprise class application FREEDOM to do their job - only way? GIVE THAT THAT "better password" mere USER power (so we can BUILD what 'your kind' merely uses). of "SysAdmin' better password only MERE USER (which is after all, ALL you are, minus code guys like ME empower you with).

    Like it or not, it's fact... you're HELPLESS minus us & I think you KNOW it but are LOATHE to admit it.

    APK

    P.S.=> See subject: AFTER ALL & perhaps above ALL else - I never said tty term work != useful (it is in "enmasse" batch updating as I said)... apk

  22. Yah right. by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

    This kernel cycle has dropped 107,210 lines of code so far but Linux 4.18 is adding many new features. The kernel is coming in lighter as a result of the LustreFS code being removed

    Yah right. This is nothing to be proud of. It is a failure of the community, to be unable to maintain Lustre. Now it goes more proprietary than it already was. Shame on Linus and his hangers-on.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    1. Re:Yah right. by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      This kernel cycle has dropped 107,210 lines of code so far but Linux 4.18 is adding many new features. The kernel is coming in lighter as a result of the LustreFS code being removed

      Yah right. This is nothing to be proud of. It is a failure of the community, to be unable to maintain Lustre. Now it goes more proprietary than it already was. Shame on Linus and his hangers-on.

      Some weeny with mod points thinks Linus is perfect. No, far from it. Linus is great, but far from perfect, and the whole Lustre thing was obviously mismanaged, including by Linus and hangers-on like Gregkh.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re:Yah right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or the Lustre guys could have gotten their shit together and it could have been put in the mainline kernel. Instead they decided to jerk off for a good decade or so and then we get people on /. crying about it. Nobody using Lustre was using the in-kernel version anyways.

    3. Re:Yah right. by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Or the Lustre guys could have gotten their shit together and it could have been put in the mainline kernel.

      They could have been encouraged to do that, instead of just throwing the baby out with the bathwater which is what idiot Gregkh did, because he has not got a fucking clue that this is just as important as the stuff he actually understands. Problem is, he's a bit of a dunce. You can see that in a lot of stuff he does. Crappy coder too.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  23. Re:No, I KNOW you don't - why? apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey dick face, STFU. Linus codes in C, are you? Can you? You're afraid of command line argument, and how to program it? Is that it? You're afraid of pointer? Hahhaa....

    You're stupid fuck face that is.

  24. 2nd language I learned = C but not good choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    2nd language I learned = C but not good choice for (read my links they lead to explaining why https://apple.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12218352&cid=56765500/ ) & from what I've heard, Mr. T. has a "bone to pick" w/ Pascal - fine, I'd debate him on what I state in that link & he'd HAVE TO BACK OFF as to my design decision...

    * Bring him - I'd like to speak to him on a FEW things I saw in the IP stack code too (refactoring especially which is HOW I suspect they "dumped" 100k off too) - downsides there (fastcall which HE will know what I mean from C/C++ or in Pascal register calls limits) etc.

    It'd be FUN - I'd get to speak to "another GREAT ONE" (which I enjoy immensely & LEARN by)... & I've been able to in computing (as I did w/ ALL-AMERICANS in the NCAA before it) on /. like Cliff Stoll & others - surrounded by greatness as life is HUGELY based on "birds of a feather" & WHO you surround yourself with (epiphanies abound).

    APK

    P.S.=> I almost GUARANTEE 1 thing - like Steve Jobs NEVER yelled @ Bill Gates? Mr. T. wouldn't "go off" on me per that link... apk

    1. Re:2nd language I learned = C but not good choice by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hahahha... a stupid guy who uses sudo over ping command wants to challange Linus. This is golden...

      If you have balls, then why don't you mail the Linux network stack maintainer on LKML. You do have balls don't you? I dare you! I double dog dare you!

      And remember, show us your mail and the link here!

      This will be a great show... hahahaha...

  25. Re:No, I KNOW you don't - why? apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep deflecting there APK. We know you can't defend your work on its merits.

  26. I don't have to, others speak for me... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your software is just fine - well written, functional... I'm going to continue using the Host File Engine by mmell February 17, 2017

    (APK's work), I've flat out said it's good by BronsCon February 11 2016

    his hosts program is actually pretty good by xenotransplant August 10 2015

    his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources by alexgieg September 25 2015

    I like your host file system by Karmashock September 09 2015

    I do use APK's host file on all my systems at home by OrangeTide December 01 2017

    I personally use a HOSTS file blocker produced from a genius called APK by 110010001000 October 27 2017

    * See subject: Best part is this Linux 64-bit model is faster & more efficient (does 2x the work in 1/2 the time, literally)

    APK

    P.S.=> Enjoy a faster/safer/more reliable internet... apk

    1. Re:I don't have to, others speak for me... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More attempts to change the subject. You are a loser and as stated before you can't actually defend your work. You do this so often you must like conceding to everyone as you do it in every argument you ever get into.

  27. BPFILTER will be the gift that keeps on giving by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seriously, BPF is going to ruin a lot of people's days because it's a great way to hide some types of resident malware.

  28. Re:Comment vs. "SysAdmin" scriptkiddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You contradict yourself (as always), you stupid fuck face. If you need automation, then you program it in cli style. If you need pretty GUI, then just make front-end of the cli. See: ffmpeg, lame, etc.

    If you make pretty GUI first, then how can you automate it?

    You don't seem to understand how things in UNIX world operate. And cli always win over GUI when it comes to performance. Do you profile bro? Do you know how GUI works internally?

    All things you said above are none sense. It just shows that you're stupid and liar!

    Keep being stupid, you stupid fuck face!

  29. You talk balls & post unidentifiable ac? LOL! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You talk balls & post unidentifiable ac? That's a laugh & where's sudo over ping come into play here? I don't use it in my program but do @ tty term "konsole" in Kubuntu (have to or it just "hangs").

    APK

    P.S.=> Lastly, grow up & quit stalking me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts like some lunatic... apk

  30. Hash in counter mode is a stream cipher by tepples · · Score: 1

    Except that SHA is a hash, not an encryption scheme.

    Any hash function can be turned into a stream cipher by running it in counter mode. This construction, called "Snuffle" by Daniel J. Bernstein, was the insight that led to the United States loosening its cryptography export regulations in the late 1990s. See Bernstein v. US .

  31. "Rinse, Lather & Repeat": I don't have to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your software is just fine - well written, functional... I'm going to continue using the Host File Engine by mmell February 17, 2017

    (APK's work), I've flat out said it's good by BronsCon February 11 2016

    his hosts program is actually pretty good by xenotransplant August 10 2015

    his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources by alexgieg September 25 2015

    I like your host file system by Karmashock September 09 2015

    I do use APK's host file on all my systems at home by OrangeTide December 01 2017

    I personally use a HOSTS file blocker produced from a genius called APK by 110010001000 October 27 2017

    * Best part's the Linux 64-bit model's faster/more efficient (does 2x the work in 1/2 the time)

    APK

    P.S.=> See subject: OTHERS (registered /.ers) DO & LEARN TO READ my UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous JEALOUS "Jowie" stalker... apk

  32. You talk out your ass on several things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Learn how to code GUI'less apps" as you put it? Done those since 1982 - have YOU? Prove it. They're FAR simpler vs. GUI by FAR (ask Linus Torvalds himself & he'll even tell you THAT). Sounds to me as if YOU have never coded a GUI app (or a tty term/character mode/"DOS Window" type program either imo).

    My program I can show proof of (unlike you I wager unless you prove differently) DOES NOT HAVE EXTERNAL DEPENDENCIES ON OTHERS' LIBS (that's another "cripple's move") OTHER THAN THE API OF THE OS & IP STACK - it's "stand-alone" SINGLE .exe design (a REAL program imo), period.

    My gui never has a problem loading in Kubuntu (KDE Plasma) by the way also!

    * I will however agree w/ you that on a server (or headless setup) it's best to do non-gui - but I never ONCE SAID THAT "GUI IN THE ONLY WAY" either, not once (& even said scripting skrypt kiddie "SysAdmins" will always have a job/place - hence why I can't see their "resistance" to things like systemd, which has benefits I noted, other than FEAR of their 'bastardization' of things job security attempt via non-std. setups being their motive for bitching about it (or GUI)).

    APK

    P.S.=> Above all else - prove to me YOU can code @ all, yourself, your own code - NOT OTHERS' WORK you leech off of, scrypt kiddie (I can easily, how about you?)... apk

  33. Re:Comment vs. "SysAdmin" scriptkiddies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you make pretty GUI first, then you automate it with Visual Basic for Applications, of course.

  34. Dropping 100K LOC by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Typical. Brag about something that means nothing, a factoid that no one cares about, a completely useless metric.

    I've never been measured on Lines Of Code output and thank God. If I felt that LOC was a pointless and destructive metric on which to measure a programmer, why would I choose to highlight that as part of a Linux release?

    Answer: I would not.

  35. How to deal with CR!MER by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    __,.--=#[How to deal with CRIMER on Slashdot]#=--.,__1)Why-are-people-upset-with-him? 2)What-can-I-do 3)What-are-his-names 4)Who-is-FatCashewsLovesMe 5)How-to-defeat-his-hustles 6)Why-are-there-dashes 7)Pastebin-Copy

    1)Why-are-people-upset-with-himHe makes frequent low quality posts for two reasons:
    Money) BASICALLY: He made thousands of shitty posts & bragged about how much money it made him.
    DETAILS: He wants u to folow his referer links & pick up his cookie. Even if u dont buy what he linked but do buy somthing else from that site later on he often makes money;He ALSO tries to drive TRAFFIC to his BLOGS & vlogs.
    Karma)Hi krma helps him disply his ads. He believes karma acumulates infinitely So he makes lots of pointles posts that r not bad enuf to mod down;hoping they wil get moded up;He was a raging ahole when he thought he had a karma surplus

    2)What-can-I-do DOWNMOD u wil usually get more mod points. If he is postng from a new sock acount w/ krma, get his oldst posts first. DOWNMOD him and AC in fresh thrads early on;Metmods wil reward u. METAMOD his posts. REPLY ONLY ANONYMOUSLY to the most deeply nested coments in his threds it helps hide his posts. Dwnvote his SUBMISSIONS, he uses to get krma. REPORT HIM to slshdot & the afiliate progrms he is usng. DONT MENTION his 'brand names' c**mer.

    3)What-are-his-namesMost famous:Cre1mer Cdre|mer ILoveFatCashews, Anonymous Cashews, The Fat Bastard aka TCDR
    4)Who-is-FatCashewsLoveMe AKA Tardu Lardo,FCLM Funny & anoying; Not me or crimer;He keeps lookout for infestation

    5)How-can-I-avoid-his-hustles - --===DONT FOLLOW HIS LINKS!!!===-- -
    IF YOU MUST:Use a privte tab & nevr buy anything on the same sesion. If he fools u, close tab, cler the cookies for that site. There r sites other than yutube that wil let u watch his videos. I dont know if people view his contnt but I can pictre his jowls jigling at the thot of people subvrting his 'business model'
    6)Why-are-there-dashes & weird stuffI know most only skim thse posts. I want the most imprtnt infrmton to pop out at a glnce & to keep it shrt. I dont use TCDRs name becase he may think tht he benfits from geting it indxed by serch engnes. Id lik 2 thnk TCDR & FCLM for editrl advce 7)CopyThisPasta: http://archive.is/HYiM2

  36. argc/argv - ever heard of it dumbfuck? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject: You can do that in GUI apps IF not add scripting like lua also dumbo (you can even make them run invisibly) - man, you are one DUMB FUCK, no questions asked... lol!

    * Your other CLASSIC give away you don't KNOW how to code was here on ME correcting YOUR STUPID ass on "GUI'less apps" (which you learn 1st in CS degrees shitbrain, telling me you are UNDEREDUCATED) https://linux.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=12245954&cid=56810016/

    APK

    P.S.=> Unbelievable - but that's what "wannabes" & "SysAdmins" are as well as HELPLESS minus coders like myself providing YOU the tools to EMPOWER you (I often wonder WHY when I read bullshit like you spout shitbrain)... apk

  37. I give folks what they want & use... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Your software is just fine - well written, functional... I'm going to continue using the Host File Engine by mmell February 17, 2017

    (APK's work), I've flat out said it's good by BronsCon February 11 2016

    his hosts program is actually pretty good by xenotransplant August 10 2015

    his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources by alexgieg September 25 2015

    I like your host file system by Karmashock September 09 2015

    I do use APK's host file on all my systems at home by OrangeTide December 01 2017

    I personally use a HOSTS file blocker produced from a genius called APK by 110010001000 October 27 2017

    * Best part's the Linux 64-bit model's faster/more efficient (does 2x the work in 1/2 the time)

    APK

    P.S.=> C = 2nd language I learned & argc/argv commandline tools in code = old hat to me & yes GUI does 'em (scripting too) + pointers = OLD HAT to me (decades old) - YOU? No... apk

  38. No, I KNOW you don't - why? apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    See subject & despite your mere "talk" you've done BETTER that even registered /.ers like & use (in a lesser model no less)? Prove it.

    * That's ALL I ever have to say & you are reduced to your 'cut downs' (ineffectual vs. fact I just laid out + in my initial post too)...

    APK

    P.S.=> Take a listen, learn by it "No time left 4U - ON MY WAY TO BETTER THINGS (found myself some wings)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPX48NpSRvo/ GUI future, not tty term nobody wants to use argc/argv MILE LONG commandline ugly JUNK stitched together in inferior /proc PIPE abstracting pointers w/ overheads (by guys that on their BEST DAY couldn't make themselves (your kind)) & even Mr. T himself KNOWS it & makes it happen (it's HIS baby, not yours)... apk

  39. You I'll reply to & why? Ok... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You didn't READ MY POST to its termination: You "scrypt kiddiez" will always have a place - but you fear new users (minus them you're lost & languish in "nobody uses me"-dom) & those COMMON-USERS make you take precedence (witness the bastardization, unfortunate, of ANDROID minus MAC layers of Linux (& yes, it's Linux since it SURELY isn't MacOS X or Windows NT (core base of ALL Windows)).

    You also FEAR GUI & things like systemd (no more bastardization "customization" job security is WHY on the latter - the former? You can't code them in the MAJORITY of "your kind" & I suspect not even tty term apps either, lol!).

    * Go easy man - & @ least YOU had the BALLS to reply to me via your registered 'lusername' (looks real too, a credit to you vs. FAKE NAMES for FAKE LIES OF LIVES types)).

    APK

    P.S.=> Buddy, lol - you also didn't READ my post & YOU obviously haven't been an ENTERPRISE CLASS level dev (which also made me a server LAN/WAN wide admin OR I COULDN'T DO MY JOB, playground virtual datasets NOTWITHSTANDING, on Server OS, DB's & Webservers @ times too))... apk