iOS 12 Will Automatically Share Your iPhone Location With 911 Centers (phonedog.com)

Apple has revealed a new feature that's coming to the next version of iOS. With iOS 12, iPhone owners will be able to automatically share their location data when they dial 911. PhoneDog reports: Apple explains that it'll use RapidSOS's IP-based data pipeline to securely share an iPhone owner's HELO (Hybridized Emergency Location) info when they call 911 call centers. This system will integrate with many 911 call centers' existing software. HELO data estimates a 911 caller's location data using cell towers as well as features like GPS and Wi-Fi access points. Apple began using HELO in 2015, but by utilizing RapidSOS's tech, too, it should make it much easier and faster for a 911 call center to locate a caller.

Comments

Didn't we all assume this was already happening?

[brainchill]

I mean, am I the only one that didn't assume that calling 911 would already be tripping and sending GPS data?

Re:Didn't we all assume this was already happening

[OrangeTide]

Nope, only the NSA gets that information today.

This might have saved the kid in the mini-van.

[olsmeister]

You know, the one that got stuck under the seat and called 911 but they couldn't find him and he eventually suffocated. Of course I have no idea whether he was using an iPhone or not, but there's at least a pretty decent chance he was.

Re: This might have saved the kid in the mini-van.

[reanjr]

I think you'll find that if you include the entire country, Uber response times are longer than 18 minutes on average.

Re:iOS should display location, too

[PPH]

Please operator
Could you trace this call
Find out where I'm drinkin'
Which dirty beer hall
And send a cab driver to call for me here

Re:iOS should display location, too

[Anonymous Coward]

Please operator
There's a guy with a gun
Waving it at a kid
Of course I can see him from two states away
*Sirens*

Re:Didn't we all assume this was already happening

[viperidaenz]

Because you'd get upset when you're hiding under the bed while someone is invading your home and you see the closest officer stop at the local donut shop.

Re:iOS should display location, too

[sjames]

^Mod this UP!^

It may not be perfect, but it easily done, zero cost, and highly useful in a variety of situations. Call it the 90% solution. Hopefully the 911 call centers will eventually catch up for the remaining 10%.

So just like US brands

[AHuxley]

did for PRISM with the NSA?

Re: Didn't we all assume this was already happenin

[guruevi]

18 minutes is pretty good. When I lived in the inner city I had 911 calls taking more than 3 hours to respond.

Re: Didn't we all assume this was already happenin

[guruevi]

It's all about money. A satellite system with GPS costs thousands to install and maintain and it adds weight with a very minor chance of ever being useful.

Re:Didn't we all assume this was already happening

[Known Nutter]

Many (not all, not most) cell systems these days will pass the tower location on to 911 along with an approximate distance from the tower, and an accuracy estimate expressed in percentage. (Tower location, 300 meters, 90% accuracy).

How does this differ from existing E911?

[Etcetera]

TFA is light on details (basically just the summary), but I'm a bit confused as to what makes this tech separate from the existing E911 tech we've had as a requirement for a decade.

E.g.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_9-1-1#Requirements

Fundamentally, E911 Phase 2 was already going to be using device sensors when available I thought, and not just the triangulated position (correct to ~ 300m, but possibly not good enough in an emergency). Is RapidSOS just a service-mark for the engine calculating this? Why not leverage the existing device data? Simply force on loc settings using the existing low-level code that already handles 911 calling within all US handsets (which is what allows even a firmware-locked phone to dial out).

Re:How does this differ from existing E911?

[sims 2]

I still don't understand how apple wasn't already doing this.
I mean every basic phone i've had since at least as far back as 2005 has had the option to disable GPS but the option to disable GPS specifically excludes 911.

Re: How does this differ from existing E911?

[sims 2]

That sounds pretty scary considering verizon is retiring their CDMA network in less than 2 years.

Re:How does this differ from existing E911?

[AHuxley]

Re "Why not leverage the existing device data?" Why sell a city, state, counties, parishes on an existing service. Make them upgrade and pay in full for a new service.

Re:How does this differ from existing E911?

[Jason Levine]

That's what I was wondering about too. Awhile back, we ditched our landline and only kept our cell phones. Our biggest worry, since we had small children, was 911 access but we were assured that it would work fine. After a week, we needed to call 911 for our youngest child (we thought he was choking but it turned out to be a febrile seizure). I called 911 on my cell phone and they immediately knew where we were. This was almost a decade ago.

Re:911 don't pay for the data, so no...

[elcor]

"Apple sells your location to anybody with money" - source?

Re:Didn't we all assume this was already happening

[Anonymous Coward]

Former Marine here.

1) Yes.
2) Hardly. The movies make parachuting look easy. 'Tis not so easy. Parachuting may save a few people, as they MAY get "lucky", but parachuting is no joke, takes tons of training, and parachuting into water (overseas flights) is a whole 'nother animal, a skill which takes mucho practice on top of already being in outstanding physical condition. A wet chute will drag you under and drown you in half a heartbeat as well as anyone else that happens to be near you. Now imagine this at night. Night jumps are difficult enough on dry land, let alone adding water.
3) And some tard goes nuts/kid gets hold of it/someone loses their temper

Re:Didn't we all assume this was already happening

[Joce640k]

Wouldn't it be useful to have an Uber-esque display that shows how far away a cop is to you?

I'm sure a lot of criminals would appreciate that feature, yes.

Doing their own thing?

[thegarbz]

How does this compare with the ETSI standard for Advanced Mobile Location which Android has supported since 2015 and has started mass rollout in Europe?

Is Apple going their own way here with yet another incompatible thing, only this time not at the expense of consumer convenience but rather at the expense of actual lives? The article is really shy on details.

Re:Doing their own thing?

[tlhIngan]

How does this compare with the ETSI standard for Advanced Mobile Location which Android has supported since 2015 and has started mass rollout in Europe?

Is Apple going their own way here with yet another incompatible thing, only this time not at the expense of consumer convenience but rather at the expense of actual lives? The article is really shy on details.

It's kinda-sorta similar, but that's about it. You have to remember that the emergency systems in North America and Europe are completely different. In North America, the "old E911" centers are POTS based with digital signalling aside that lets you get GPS data (through the control plane). That is, the moment you call 911, the modem itself will acquire GPS lock and transmit it on the control channel so while you're on the call, the cellular switches and all that will pass it to the E911 center.

New style 911 centers are VoIP based - they are effectively all data connectivity, which is why they can do things like handle texts and all that now as well. These centers can still receive E911 data "the old way" but since they are fully data hookups, they do allow for enhanced location awareness Here GPS data can be sent any which way - even VoIP phones equipped with GPS locators can send their proper location when you call 911 and not rely on the subscriber database.

Europe, because they did not have such ability to use the control plane data, only gets GPS data via the user plane, so your phone will have to create and establish a data session to the carrier first, then connect to the 911 center as if you were connect to a website. It's a system that works well but lacks any real prioritization features since the location information is sent via a normal data channel. It's also fraught with issues - if your SIM does not support data, for example, it doesn't work (the system will force a data connection, and if the SIM lacks the configuration information to establish the data connection, then it's not possible).

Basically, they're two competing systems that everyone will have to support in the end.

Re:Doing their own thing?

[thegarbz]

As long as everyone implements all systems that's okay. The last thing we need is fragmentation in life saving standards.

One thing though, Europe's AML doesn't use the data layer, but rather uses the same system used for the underlying SMS service. AML works even when you're roaming without data or when using a voice-only SIM, and the underlying system does have prioritisation.

Though I'm happy to be corrected about this if I'm wrong. I've only really scratched the surface of looking into it.

Re:Didn't we all assume this was already happening

[Daralantan]

Many assumed... but it never did.

I'll always remember calling 911 about a head on collision where one car was upside down, and the person inside was pinned in place by their destroyed door. The operator was yelling at me that she needed a better description of where we were, and as I was trying to figure out better landmarks (we were on a small highway) she ended up hanging up on me. SOMEHOW I called back and got the same operator. Immediately she recognized me and said something like: "WELL WHERE IS IT THIS TIME!"

Re:911 don't pay for the data, so no...

[TheFakeTimCook]

Apple sells your location to anybody with money. 911 call centers, I'm assuming, don't have it in their budgets to buy locations from Apple, so no, I wouldn't think they'd have your locations. Why would you think Apple gave that data away for free?

Prove it, or STFU, Hater.

Re: Didn't we all assume this was already happenin

[Monkey-Wrench-Inc]

*cues up Public Enemy's 911 Is A Joke*

Re:Didn't we all assume this was already happening

[Carewolf]

I mean, am I the only one that didn't assume that calling 911 would already be tripping and sending GPS data?

Not the GPS location, but they would get your location within 10m by using cell tower triangulation, which your carrier has and sends with the signal as metadata one 911 calls, it is a part of the protocol and required by law.

Re:999 (UK) 000 (Aus) 111 (NZ) or only 911

[Carewolf]

So is this US only?

Probably, since the GSM protocol used everywhere else has already done this for over 20 years,

Re: Didn't we all assume this was already happenin

[thepacketmaster]

Yes, this has been going on for years. When I started working in the telecom industry in 2008 this was available. The issue is that the 911 call triggers the phone to do a GPS locate. That can take up to 30 seconds to get a good GPS position and send it, and in some cases the 911 call might be disconnected in that time. We would get 911 calling the telecom to ask for a GPS lookup on a subscribers number because it didnâ(TM)t come through. At that point itâ(TM)s just cell phone signal strength data off the towers so not as accurate but it was the best positioning available at that point. It sounds like they think this system will be more efficient.

Re:911 don't pay for the data, so no...

[TheFakeTimCook]

Location specific ads.

There are a LOT of vectors for THAT information, idiot.