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Tesla Autopilot Safety Defeat Device Gets a Cease-and-Desist From NHTSA (autoblog.com)

schwit1 writes: The National Highway Traffic Safety Association (NHTSA) is cracking down on a device that was designed to trick Tesla's semi-autonomous Autopilot feature into thinking a driver is paying attention, in order to extend the amount of time that it will operate without anyone touching the steering wheel. NHTSA announced on Tuesday that it has sent a cease and desist letter to the makers of Autopilot Buddy, and has given the company until June 29 to end sales and distribution of the $199 product.

The device is a two-piece weighted hoop with magnets that wraps around a steering wheel spoke and registers with the car's sensors as a hand on the wheel. Autopilot is programmed to disengage after a short period of time if the driver is not touching the wheel and ignores a series of alerts to take control.unity.

76 of 138 comments (clear)

  1. A weighted hoop for $199? For $199, I'd rather buy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ...companion cube.

  2. Liability... by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

    They should be able to sell it, as long as they're willing to pay for the damages in any accident associated with its use. Bet it would be pulled very quickly...

    1. Re:Liability... by Frosty+Piss · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They should be able to sell it, as long as they're willing to pay for the damages in any accident associated with its use.

      The people this device is involved in killing might disagree with you.

      --
      If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
    2. Re:Liability... by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 5, Funny

      Actually, we need a "Cease-and-Desist" order for drivers who refuse to pay attention to the road, despite the explicit instructions from Tesla.

      Once again, the most dangerous part of an automobile is "The Loose Nut Behind the Wheel".

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    3. Re:Liability... by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      Seems easier and more effective to ban it instead of waiting for it to kill people and the following protracted law suits

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    4. Re:Liability... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised there is not a DIY Youtube video out there on such a device. (Maybe there is)

    5. Re:Liability... by war4peace · · Score: 1, Troll

      So let's fire all airplane pilots. 'cause planes have autopilot, y'know...

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    6. Re:Liability... by Knuckles · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You can also knit a rope and hang yourself, but being on sale as a ready-made product will give it legitimacy in the eyes of some that it shouldn't have

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    7. Re:Liability... by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Exactly! So, what are we arguing about here? We're all on the same side!

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    8. Re: Liability... by unifex · · Score: 1

      They can. Many new planes can now fly autonomous. Qantas has done at least one complete flight.

    9. Re:Liability... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Airplanes have air traffic control to make sure no one is in the way. Why do you always leave that part out?

    10. Re:Liability... by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This product didn't kill anyone. It can only do one of two things:

      • Keep the Tesla from falsely nagging someone who does have both hands on the wheel.
      • Keep the Tesla from uselessly nagging someone who isn't going to pay attention anyway, and at best will just tap the wheel when the nags happen.

      Neither of these has any meaningful effect on driver or vehicle safety. The odds against a device like this causing a fatal accident are astronomical, because for the car's autosteer to shut down, the driver has to be so completely oblivious that he/she fails to respond to three nags WITH SOUND within a one-hour period. This is a relatively rare occurrence, short of someone dying behind the wheel....

      More importantly, any claim of reduced safety relies on the assumption that the nags somehow make the car safer, when in my experience, the precise opposite is true. The nag system takes an insane amount of time to detect when the driver doesn't have his/her hands on the wheel, most of the time, but constantly nags at highly inappropriate times (such as during acceleration) when the driver *does* have both hands on the wheel.

      As best I can tell, the main purpose of the nags seems to be to make the autosteer feature more annoying than driving by hand so that folks will spend more money for the self-driving package when it finally comes out. The nags have gotten so annoying that I'm finding myself using autosteer less and less frequently as the nag rate increases. In other words, assuming autosteer really is improving safety, then statistically speaking, the nags are making the car LESS safe, not more.

      Worse, because of the way Tesla detects hands on the wheel — by measuring the torque provided by your hands against the autosteer, the nags are actually more frequent when gripping the wheel tightly with two hands than when loosely hanging one hand on one side of the wheel. So the nags actively encourage drivers to do the exact opposite of what it claims to be doing. Again, the nags make the car LESS safe.

      So I don't know what NHTSA is smoking, but I'd like some of that. Obviously nobody involved in that C&D has ever actually driven a Tesla, or else they would not have sent it. The nags should die in a fire. They make the vehicle less safe, and any technology that can be used to render them harmless makes Tesla vehicles safer to drive, not less safe.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    11. Re:Liability... by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Unless they're judgment-proof, in which case, it might take a while to get the device pulled.

    12. Re:Liability... by CaptainDork · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Been there.

      Texaco refinery, Port Arthur, Texas.

      The operators stuffed red rags into the alarm horns and, sure enough, 8 people died on a unit where instruments showed there was sufficient time to get out of harm's way had the sound not been muffled.

      I remember my dad pulling the wire of the "ding, ding," of the lap belt warning.

      People take batteries out of smoke detectors.

      I think the answer is for the goddam artificial intelligence to be fucking intelligent.

      Until then, don't beta test the goddam thing in production.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    13. Re:Liability... by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 1

      Actually, we need a "Cease-and-Desist" order for drivers who refuse to pay attention to the road, despite the explicit instructions from Tesla.

      This, because it will be hard to C&D oranges . Actually police should just mail this guy a speeding ticket for fun, since not only was he driving recklessly, he was also clearly speeding by 6mph.

    14. Re:Liability... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the answer is for the goddam artificial intelligence to be fucking intelligent.

      Until then, don't beta test the goddam thing in production.

      Get some perspective. 3000 people a day die in human caused traffic accidents worldwide. If by rolling out Autopilot and collecting real world data, they bring forward the transition to SDCs by even a single day, they will have saved a thousand lives for every one lost in beta testing.

      This is the same as The Trolley Problem, except instead of throwing the switch to save five by sacrificing one, we save thousands, or perhaps tens or hundreds of thousands.

      The needs of the many out weigh the needs of the few.

    15. Re:Liability... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Tesla calls it an "autopilot". "Auto=automatic". So its all automatic.

      That changes nothing because all cars are "auto"mobiles. And in Germany, the "auto"mobiles drive on the "Auto"bahn.

      So everyone already believes cars don't need to be driven ... or perhaps people aren't as stupid as you think they are.

      Number of Tesla drivers who have claimed an accident wasn't their fault because they thought they didn't need to drive the car: 0.

    16. Re:Liability... by nazsco · · Score: 1

      exclusively for taking off and landing. you don't even have to log a flight plan for most (non-commercial) cases.

    17. Re:Liability... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Auto" = "self". "Automobile" means "self-propelled", not "self-guided".

    18. Re:Liability... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      No, he's arguing that marketing rope specifically as a handy means of committing suicide might tend to make people think of using it specifically for that purpose. Your dislike of human suggestibility does not stop it from being a real thing.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    19. Re:Liability... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      I'll giver that one 2/10. Please try harder next time.

      --
      No sig today...
    20. Re:Liability... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Didn't they used say this about Winnebagos and "cruise control"?

      Old people putting it on "cruise" at 70mph then going in the back to make a sandwich?

      --
      No sig today...
    21. Re:Liability... by Megol · · Score: 2

      If you want to kill or maim yourself you are right. But you have no right throwing a dice risking other peoples well-being which is what you are supporting here.

    22. Re:Liability... by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      Thank you.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    23. Re:Liability... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      In other words, assuming autosteer really is improving safety, then statistically speaking, the nags are making the car LESS safe, not more.

      Or you can just leave your hands on the wheel and pay attention while the car does the heavy lifting.

    24. Re:Liability... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      "If you want to kill or maim yourself you are right. But you have no right throwing a dice risking other peoples well-being which is what you are supporting here."

      People accidentally kill other people in road accidents every day. What you are proposing is that no one be allowed to do anything, ever, because humans are fragile and there is always a risk they might die.

      Driving equals risking the well-being of others, whether you do it correctly or not.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    25. Re:Liability... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Indeed. the Star Trek quote is totally plucked from thin air and isn't a paraphrase of anything written by a famous philosopher, especially not Bentham or Mill.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    26. Re: Liability... by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Which is exactly why auto manufacturers should have to work on making their vehicles safer for those NOT inside the car.

      Well, you're in luck. Auto manufacturers DO have to work on making their vehicles safer for those people. For example, there is a required hood crumple specification to improve pedestrian safety if you hit them. All passenger vehicles sold in the USA will have to have automatic emergency braking by 2022, and the EU will probably follow suit. And they took non-folding hood ornaments off of cars to protect pedestrians, as well.

      People drive cars like maniacs because airbags, crumple zones, seatbelts make them feel sufficiently safe to do stupid things.

      Stupid as riding a bicycle on a public road, where a a slight mistake by you or by a motorist or any small equipment failure could end your life, or just relegate you to permanent vegetable status? And where in the best case, you're sucking exhaust and tire dust while breathing vigorously?

      Pity the pedestrian or cyclist who gets in their way or makes them 5 seconds slower getting to Starbucks.

      Don't get in the way. Physics is still a thing.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    27. Re:Liability... by rojash · · Score: 1

      The way you put it reminds me of one driving with one's wife in tow. The nag will keep you annoyed and alert right, and is a good thing to keep prodding you. Getting a gadget that alleviates your safety is ridiculous, and NHTSA is more interested in people's safety rather than your comfort when you drive. Its their job, whether they have driven a Tesla or not before banning anti-safety devices is their prerogative.

    28. Re:Liability... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      No.

      I was an instrumntman there.

      In most cases, the operators were aware that the unit was upset and made adjustments.

      In several cases, the alarm was for very serious conditions.

      Safety measures/guards/alarms exist because of human learning.

      We didn't have false positives.

      We had operators who were inconvenienced, much like the persons who will not practice due diligence by keeping their goddam hands on the steering wheel, even when warned to do so.

      We did have

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    29. Re:Liability... by HiThere · · Score: 1

      This is a human factors design problem, and Tesla made a bad design decision. People have a lot of trouble focusing attention on a task where they all they do is pay attention and not do anything. What the correct decision is may be arguable, but it will involve people acting whenever they're supposed to be paying attention.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    30. Re: Liability... by haruchai · · Score: 1

      "Auto manufacturers DO have to work on making their vehicles safer for those people. For example, there is a required hood crumple specification to improve pedestrian safety if you hit them.
        All passenger vehicles sold in the USA will have to have automatic emergency braking by 2022 [nbcnews.com], and the EU will probably follow suit. And they took non-folding hood ornaments off of cars to protect pedestrians, as well"

      Nice to hear something's finally being done for decades-old problems

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    31. Re:Liability... by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      Wonder no more - https://wisemanbray.com/outrag...

      Yup, it was bullshit.

    32. Re:Liability... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Do not attempt to merely dismiss the asshole driver that ends up killing someone with their car because they want to bypass safety mechanisms.

      They would still kill someone without being able to bypass the "safety" mechanisms, because as I said, the nags do NOT serve ANY safety function. Either someone is paying attention to the road or he/she isn't, and the nags don't change that behavior. They just annoy users.

      If anything, the nags have nearly caused a couple of accidents for me when I deliberately torqued the wheel to force it to recognize that I was holding the wheel and inadvertently torqued it hard enough to kick out autosteer entirely. And they have distracted me at critical moments when I needed to take control away from AutoSteer. The nags are DANGEROUS. They are NOT a safety feature. They are the exact OPPOSITE of a safety feature.

      Nothing about the nags improves safety. Every single aspect of them makes safety measurably worse or at best is a no-op. And even if you don't believe that (which would pretty much require you never having used AutoSteer), a single "keep hands on wheel when driving" message when you start the car would have exactly the same effect without increasing the risk of driver mistakes by distracting the driver with an unnecessary message on the screen that draws their attention away from the road that they're supposed to be watching.

      But please, be my guest and explain to me why you think that having something needlessly flashing on your dashboard while you're trying to drive makes us safer.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    33. Re:Liability... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Or you can just leave your hands on the wheel and pay attention while the car does the heavy lifting.

      And when you do that, the nags still happen about once every minute or two, and they still distract me from my driving. Did you even read my post before you replied?

      Worse, because of the way Tesla detects hands on the wheel — by measuring the torque provided by your hands against the autosteer, the nags are actually more frequent when gripping the wheel tightly with two hands than when loosely hanging one hand on one side of the wheel.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    34. Re:Liability... by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      The nag will keep you annoyed and alert

      Having a warning message flash on your dashboard does not keep you alert. It distracts you from the road.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    35. Re:Liability... by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      if the rules of using autosteer are to have your hands on the wheel, maybe thats what you have to do. i expect they don;t want the idiot drivers to put their seats back and go to sleep. People do drive when very tired and fall asleep at the wheel so the "nag" will be useful.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    36. Re:Liability... by Talderas · · Score: 1

      Autopilot is a grossly overloaded term because people confuse pilot and navigator. There's already at least two types of autopilot in aviation and I'm guessing at least two types of nautical autopilots.

      The most basic autopilots maintain a heading and speed. That's it. Tesla's autopilot is right in line with this type of autopilot except slightly more advanced in that it capable of steering to follow pavement.

      After that you have the navigational autopilots which you can set waypoints and the autopilot will make course corrections to reach the waypoints. We have this mostly solved for cars but there's some critical components that still need to be tested.

      Nautical and aeronautical autopilots don't really get much more advanced than that for two reasons. The first is they expect the plane or ship's pilot to be paying attention to respond to changing conditions. The second is that the air and sea are so large that the probability of collisions is drastically smaller than that of cars. The collision avoidance aspect which isn't as critical for airplanes and ships is critical for cars and necessary for self-navigating autopilots on cars.

      --
      "Lack of speed can be overcome. In the worst case by patience." --Znork
  3. Natural Selection by alvinrod · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Try to make something fool proof and the universe will make a better fool.

    1. Re:Natural Selection by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      I would rather not be on the same road as this device, thanks.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    2. Re:Natural Selection by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      You are, however, in the same Universe.

      Good luck.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re:Natural Selection by lsllll · · Score: 4, Funny

      Try to make something fool proof and the universe will make a better fool.

      Damn, am I reminded of that on a daily basis ... Can you tell I'm a programmer?

      --
      Is that a roll of dimes in your pocket or are you happy to see me?
    4. Re:Natural Selection by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The really worrying thing is that there are lots of people on the various Tesla forums complaining that the new Autopilot update makes it "unusable" for them. It now checks much more often for hands on the wheel, about every 30 seconds or so. It used to let you go 15 minutes or more without hands on.

      Seems like quite a lot of people were really using it in an unsafe way before, and are now angry at Tesla even though it's still a lot worse than every other manufacturer.

      Scary stuff.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  4. Should be allowed by Leuf · · Score: 4, Funny

    Because anyone that would pay $200 for a small magnet in a piece of plastic is too stupid to be trusted to drive themselves.

    1. Re:Should be allowed by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't even trust them to drive in Grand Theft Auto.

    2. Re:Should be allowed by E-Lad · · Score: 1

      Just hope that they don't demonstrate their stupidity by careening into you / anyone.

    3. Re:Should be allowed by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      You can actually just wedge a bit of fruit in the wheel, something like an orange. The weight is enough to make it think you are applying torque to the wheel.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Should be allowed by ledow · · Score: 1

      Does your car have a spoiler?

      I've seen people pay WAY more than that to fit a "after-market spoiler" to a car that's not even capable of generating any kind of air-flow which would produce such an effect, nor any kind of aerodynamic effect to utilise them.

      Don't even get me started on twin-exhausts and all kinds of other shite.

      I agree, those people shouldn't be allowed to drive themselves, just through sheer stupidity and misunderstanding of how their car works, but I would posit that "owning a Tesla" is a much higher risk category for being a twat that anything else.

  5. Makes sense to me. by Labarna · · Score: 1

    This makes sense to me. It seems that communities (cities or states or whatever) seem to think they have the ability to determine whether self-driving vehicles are allowed on their streets. (This is not something I had thought about until the last couple of years.) Given that, the same governments should be allowed to determine if the sale of a device that turns a vehicle into a self-driving vehicle is allowed.

  6. Punishing the wrong device. by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 1

    They should be halting sales of any device's safety devices that can be defeated by this device. Is that enough devices?

    1. Re:Punishing the wrong device. by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

      That's because you are an idiot. Any safety device can be defeated. You cannot possibly engineer against all morons. As was referenced above, even warning sirens can be defeated by cramming rags into them. A door that is meant to contain something dangerous can be defeated by blocking it so it cannot close. Do we stop selling doors? Should every safety door have to be so overly engineered that it tries to withstand all morons? How about we just go with good old PERSONAL FUCKING RESPONSIBILITY? Stop selling devices that have a single function of defeating a safety device. These fucking weights have ZERO OTHER USE.

      Just because you can defeat something doesn't mean it should be actively sold. At least now someone will have to cobble together their own defeat-device and that will at least take some effort. They won't be able to claim "hey, I bought it so I thought it was okay to use". If someone bypasses the safety system and kills someone, they should spend the rest of their useless lives in a prison cell.

    2. Re:Punishing the wrong device. by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I'm sure someone could come up with some other use for it. But its primary purpose is specifically to defeat a device intended to protect the lives of people, many of which are not the user. (If it only endangered the user of the device, I'd be OK with it.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  7. Ironic by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

    This seems completely ironic to me. All this device does is stop the warning to put the drivers hands on the wheel. It does not make Autopilot safer or any less safe. Nor is there any way to determine whether a person is using Autopilot properly without one of these devices. Prohibiting these products seems to be a band-aid solution, when the real problem is that Autopilot is so easily misused in the first place.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:Ironic by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      The real problem is that instead of warning people to pay attention to the road around them, Tesla felt it necessary to treat their customers like children with a useless nag that is annoying as heck even when users are using the product precisely as intended. As a result, folks have come up with creative ways to work around the lack of a "Stop nagging me already" switch in the settings. If they ban this, folks will come up with something else. It won't stop until Tesla cars either have true FSD capability or Tesla gives us a way to turn off the nags.

      And no, I don't own one, but I'm sorely tempted to rig up something similar. I'm really getting tired of all the nags while sitting there with both hands on the wheel simply because the car didn't turn the wheel enough to notice that my hands were providing resistance. The entire concept of using wheel torque to control nags is fundamentally and irredeemably flawed. Then again, the entire concept of nagging the driver and hoping that it will somehow do something other than annoy the driver into being angry at your product is equally flawed.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    2. Re:Ironic by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The thing that is flawed is that Tesla doesn't seem to be willing to acknowledge common human traits. A car is requires a human to interact with it properly in order to not kill or injure anyone. Humans have flaws, yet Tesla seems to think they can pick the ones that they should feel liable for even though these human flaws are well known and completely predictable. They are acknowledging technology can augment a human to make them a better driver, yet failing to acknowledge that their technology just brings out the flaw of having poor reaction times when not being completely engaged with the driving.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    3. Re:Ironic by Corbets · · Score: 1

      Being willing to acknowledge it is one thing.

      Believing that they should take responsibility for it, and take responsibility away from adults who have been licensed by the freaking state to drive, is another thing.

    4. Re:Ironic by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Is the state testing attention span as part of their driver licensing? If a person loses focus after, say, an hour of doing nothing, are they denying licenses?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  8. More asinine regulations by hwihyw · · Score: 1

    If you watch the Youtube video its just a weight held by magnets. I can wrap rubber bands around the steering wheel and it would accomplish the same thing. Might as well send a cease and desist to Youtube for showing how to circumvent the system. And if I tell my friends how to do it, will I get a cease and desist letter too?

  9. Better idea. by amiga3D · · Score: 1

    What if it just pulls over to the side of the road and stops instead. The driver might be asleep or dead. Just disengaging could cause an accident.

    1. Re:Better idea. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Tesla's autopilot isn't capable of doing that, and a fully self-driving car is capable of taking its passenger someplace cleverer than the side of the road.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  10. Re:A weighted hoop for $199? For $199, I'd rather by nazsco · · Score: 1

    This sounds like the Companion Cube's misdirection.

    There's no talk about that device being involved the current high profile investigation. It probably was not present but they are doing that now to divert attention.

  11. Re:Drive around dead by wolfheart111 · · Score: 1

    Better than having a dead guy driving around town until his battery runs out.

    --
    [($)]
  12. [OFFTOPIC] by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

    What happened to SongCue?

    --
    Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    1. Re:[OFFTOPIC] by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      I got too busy with my actual job. I wouldn't want to touch it with a ten meter pole now, since it's all fairly close to the metal Xlib from almost two decades back.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    2. Re:[OFFTOPIC] by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      That's too bad. Looked interesting, thought it might be fun to play with sometime. (I used to work in the industry.) Cheers.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  13. Just why? by DrXym · · Score: 1

    Its bad enough that "autopilot" lets the driver take their hands off the wheel for up to 30 seconds. But using a device to defeat even that amount of time is just plain stupid.

  14. Re: A weighted hoop for $199? For $199, I'd rather by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Not that much, but a skinny one with big tits and a pretty face will cost you. Double if it has a nice dick, too.

  15. Let Darwin sort it out by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    The sooner the people who think it's safe to not pay attention while driving are taken off the road the better.

    If that happens because their Tesla autopilot drives out the lane, speeds up and crashes into a safety barrier while still accelerating, so be it.

    1. Re:Let Darwin sort it out by sjames · · Score: 1

      Will you say the same when crashing into you is their mode of exit?

    2. Re:Let Darwin sort it out by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      I don't live in a country full of Tesla's

    3. Re:Let Darwin sort it out by sjames · · Score: 1

      So as long as the innocent person who dies isn't you you're in favor?

    4. Re:Let Darwin sort it out by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Tesla's prefer to target crash barriers, fire engines and semi truck tailors, not light passenger vehicles.

  16. Re: So if Autopilot thinks I'm not paying attentio by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    That's because autopilot isn't paying attention to the road either.

    Have you noticed how Elon Musk had stopped tweeting about how safe autopilot is? That's because more people die in a Tesla when it's turned on then when it's turned off.

  17. Re:Let me get this straight by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    As a safety measure it seems somewhat inadequate, but at least there is the possibility of the vehicle being slowed by regenerative braking in the case where autopilot is simply disabled. To make a fair comparison, you should contrast it with what happens when a driver becomes incapacitated while using other systems. If they are using cruise control, their vehicle becomes an unguided land missile, doing its best to maintain speed and that's it. With radar-guided cruise control, the vehicle will slow down and maybe even stop to avoid impact, but it will do nothing to avoid running drivers alongside off of the road, nor drifting into an oncoming lane. It's not until you get up to more complex solutions like super cruise before you find a safer situation than simply shutting off the system.

    With that said, it does seem like when the system shuts off, it should continue lane keeping and automatic braking, and simply disable acceleration - activating the hazards and coming to a gradual halt. Beginning deceleration slowly will give a driver who is not fully incapacitated a chance to regain control of the vehicle.

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    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  18. Re: Drive around dead by bestweasel · · Score: 1

    There's an urban legend in the making. Self driving car pulls in at its destination, no-one gets out.

    "Why isn't grandpa getting of the car, Mommy?"

    Turns out grandpa died 6 hours ago, just after he set out.

  19. Re: 6.5 hours ago by wolfheart111 · · Score: 1

    He died before he set out and placed in the Tesla, set on autopilot and the evidence was destroyed in a fiery crash... :)

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